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Cat Food and Mad Cow Disease

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Jean B. - 27 Dec 2003 00:52 GMT
Soooooooo, do any of you wonder about the beef byproducts that
might be in cat food?  I was initially thinking that not feeding
cans of beef would do the trick, but where else might this mystery
meat lurk?
Signature

Jean B.

Cheryl - 27 Dec 2003 01:44 GMT
> Soooooooo, do any of you wonder about the beef byproducts that
> might be in cat food?  I was initially thinking that not feeding
> cans of beef would do the trick, but where else might this mystery
> meat lurk?

I only feed mine with poultry.  We did have a nice prime rib for Christmas
dinner (us humans) so I guess we have to wait and see.

Signature

Cheryl

"I am only one, but still I am one.  I cannot do everything, but still I
can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do."
- Helen Keller

Sherry - 27 Dec 2003 02:02 GMT
>Soooooooo, do any of you wonder about the beef byproducts that
>might be in cat food?  I was initially thinking that not feeding
>cans of beef would do the trick, but where else might this mystery
>meat lurk?
No, I really don't wonder about it much. I think your cats have a better chance
of being struck by lightning than dying from mad cow disease.

Sherry
PawsForThought - 27 Dec 2003 14:22 GMT
>From: sriddles@aol.comkitty  (Sherry )

>>Soooooooo, do any of you wonder about the beef byproducts that
>>might be in cat food?  I was initially thinking that not feeding
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Sherry

Can cats even get mad cow disease?
________
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Steven Cook - 27 Dec 2003 17:01 GMT
>Can cats even get mad cow disease?
>________
>See my cats:  http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
>Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
>http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
>Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

Dunno, but technically we can't either, but we can get vCJD (variant
Creutzfeldt-Jacob Disease) I can't recall if they ever established a
direct  link between eating BSE and contracting vCJD.

The danger area is the brain and spinal cord, as it is believed the
BSE prion can be transmitted by ingesting cuts of meat contaminated
with this material.

If cat food manufacturers use this material in their feed and if there
is a similar brain wasting disease in cats then I'd be very wary, but
I can't recall any scare connected to pet food and BSE here in the UK.
Maybe someone else has a better memory than me can add to this... Hey
I wonder if my short term memory loss is related to vCJD.... ;o)
frlpwr - 27 Dec 2003 17:57 GMT
(snip)

> If cat food manufacturers use this material in their feed and if there
> is a similar brain wasting disease in cats then I'd be very wary, but
> I can't recall any scare connected to pet food and BSE here in the UK.

http://www.neurocenter-bern.ch/tse_e.shtml#box2
PawsForThought - 27 Dec 2003 18:06 GMT
>From: frlpwr frlpwr@flash.net

>(snip)
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>http://www.neurocenter-bern.ch/tse_e.shtml#box2

Thanks for posting this.

Lauren
________
See my cats:  http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
Steven Cook - 27 Dec 2003 18:14 GMT
>(snip)
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>http://www.neurocenter-bern.ch/tse_e.shtml#box2

Ouch! :o(
PawsForThought - 27 Dec 2003 19:22 GMT
>From: Steven Cook stevencook@removethis.freeola.net

>>(snip)
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Ouch! :o(

Hey, don't feel bad, Steve.  I had no idea myself that cats could get BSE.

Lauren
________
See my cats:  http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
frlpwr - 28 Dec 2003 18:05 GMT
(snip)

> Hey, don't feel bad, Steve.  I had no idea myself that cats could get > BSE.

Though I can't find a citation now, shortly after reports of feline
vulnerability to TSEs surfaced, there was speculation that mink flesh
was the culprit.  Since AAFCO regulations define "meat by-products" as
the flesh of any mammal, there was/is the possibility of mink carcasses,
for which there is little commercial value other than fertilizer and
animal feed, ending up as low quality catfood.  Mink are very
suspectifible to TSE, though the young age at which they are slaughtered
forestalls the appearance of symptoms in the mink, themselves.
Jean B. - 29 Dec 2003 00:44 GMT
> (snip)
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> suspectifible to TSE, though the young age at which they are slaughtered
> forestalls the appearance of symptoms in the mink, themselves.

So I wonder how one can avoid such foods, since all of the
credible commercial foods contain byproducts?  The chicken etc.
still contains animal byproducts.  I guess, then, that one just
assumes that the likelihood of any particular cat getting TSE is
extremely small, just as the chance of our getting it is small.
Still, it is not a comforting thought.  It seems easier for me, as
a human, to avoid possibly contaminated foods than it is to
protect my feline friends.
Signature

Jean B.

Betsy - 29 Dec 2003 03:46 GMT
One buys premium cat food with recognizable ingredients, or else one cooks
for ones cat.  I've been trying to educate friends and family and whoever
will listen for YEARS that mystery meats in pet food are bad news, Steve
Crane & Hills to the contrary!

> > (snip)
> >
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> a human, to avoid possibly contaminated foods than it is to
> protect my feline friends.
MacCandace - 29 Dec 2003 04:44 GMT
<< I've been trying to educate friends and family and whoever
will listen for YEARS that mystery meats in pet food are bad news, Steve
Crane & Hills to the contrary! >>

Yeah, but it only takes a little beef stock, beef extract, whatever to cause
CJD.  You can't know what's in any cat food or what's in your own food.  Go to
a restaurant, they might have beef stock in a dish that doesn't even have meat
in it.  Cripes, I've been a vegetarian for 15 years and I know full well that
when I go to restaurants, there most likely is beef or chicken stock in any
number of "vegetarian" dishes: soups, all sorts of things.  No one knows for
sure what they are eating.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human."  (Loren Eisely)
Betsy - 29 Dec 2003 04:56 GMT
That's scary isn't it?  After reading the excellent post from Paws for
Thought (Lauren?) I'm reconsidering a lot of what I eat.  My new year's
resolution was already to eat only foods cooked at home--to save money!  Now
I have another even more compelling reason!

Meanwhile, I've been discovering some more premium pet foods.  Anybody have
any experience or knowledge about:

"Precise"
"Verus"
"Chicken Soup..."

They look good, smell good, & the cats actually love them.  I also bought a
bag of Innova Lite which they won't touch.  Go figure.

> << I've been trying to educate friends and family and whoever
> will listen for YEARS that mystery meats in pet food are bad news, Steve
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
> than human."  (Loren Eisely)
PawsForThought - 29 Dec 2003 12:22 GMT
>From: "Betsy" n0spam@spam.c-0

>That's scary isn't it?  After reading the excellent post from Paws for
>Thought (Lauren?) I'm reconsidering a lot of what I eat.  My new year's
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>They look good, smell good, & the cats actually love them.  I also bought a
>bag of Innova Lite which they won't touch.  Go figure.

Hi Betsy,
I've never used any of these foods because I feed my cats a homemade diet, but
I've heard Precise is pretty good.  I have a few friends that feed Chicken Soup
and say their cats really like it a lot.  I came across a new food that looks
pretty good.  If you are interested and want more information about it, the
company emailed me the analysis breakdown.  Here's their website:
www.naturesvariety.com

Lauren
________
See my cats:  http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
Fat Freddy - 29 Dec 2003 14:52 GMT
>  Anybody have any experience or knowledge about:
>
> "Precise"
> "Verus"
> "Chicken Soup..."

My cats like the Chicken Soup... cat food. They always have a bowl of
that and Nutro Natural Choice available. One of them prefers the Nutro,
the other two prefer the Chicken Soup, but they all will eat both
kinds.

Finding a canned food they like is a problem. I have tried all the
premium brands and they don't like any of them. Right now they are
eating the various flavors of ProPlan. Each cat has his favorite
flavors. Two of them will eat any of the different flavors, but one of
them won't eat the fish.

Somebody gave me a couple cans of Fancy Feast, and even though I know
it's garbage, I gave it to them any way. Two of them loved it, it made
the other one vomit.
PawsForThought - 29 Dec 2003 12:16 GMT
>From: maccandace@aol.comlitter  (MacCandace)

><< I've been trying to educate friends and family and whoever
>will listen for YEARS that mystery meats in pet food are bad news, Steve
>Crane & Hills to the contrary! >>
>
>Yeah, but it only takes a little beef stock, beef extract, whatever to cause
>CJD.  You can't know what's in any cat food or what's in your own food.

Perhaps, but you can stack the deck in your favor if you are feeding
unprocessed foods.

>Go to
>a restaurant, they might have beef stock in a dish that doesn't even have
>meat
>in it.  Cripes, I've been a vegetarian for 15 years and I know full well that
>when I go to restaurants, there most likely is beef or chicken stock in any
>number of "vegetarian" dishes: soups, all sorts of things.

Now that's a scarey thought.  Maybe better to find a vegetarian restaurant?
Although I know in some areas, they are very hard to find.  

Lauren
________
See my cats:  http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
Jean B. - 29 Dec 2003 15:58 GMT
> << I've been trying to educate friends and family and whoever
> will listen for YEARS that mystery meats in pet food are bad news, Steve
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> number of "vegetarian" dishes: soups, all sorts of things.  No one knows for
> sure what they are eating.

So it seems almost like we might just as well not worry about it
beyond avoiding the most obvious culprits--unless we can ensure
exactly what is in our foods?

Signature

Jean B.

MacCandace - 30 Dec 2003 03:04 GMT
<< So it seems almost like we might just as well not worry about it
beyond avoiding the most obvious culprits--unless we can ensure
exactly what is in our foods?

Signature

Jean B. >>

Probably.  I mean, I'm not worried sick about it or anything but I do have a
slight concern as to whether this whole thing is going to become widespread.  I
never feed my cats beef type food anyway; we jsut sort of decided not to when
mad cow broke out in England a few years ago but I'm sure they get some beef
by-products or stock in some of their foods.  Just as I assume that I also do
even though I'm vegetarian.  

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human."  (Loren Eisely)

Raul & Mini - 29 Dec 2003 06:20 GMT
So does anyone recomend any type of cat food when price is not a problem.
My kittie just got spayed and is running around like she has a
firecracker in
her butt (excuse the refrence). She is a hi energy cat, however my sister's
tabby, who also lives here, does not have a much energy. We had been
feeding them
Science Diet for kittens and we switched to Nutro Max Cat kitten...has
anyone had
any experiences or is the a better quality food. They are both healthy
and deficate
regularly with no problems. They are both spoiled rotten as they should
be...

> One buys premium cat food with recognizable ingredients, or else one cooks
> for ones cat.  I've been trying to educate friends and family and whoever
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>>a human, to avoid possibly contaminated foods than it is to
>>protect my feline friends.
frlpwr - 29 Dec 2003 08:27 GMT
> One buys premium cat food with recognizable ingredients,

Exactly right.  What little regulation there is for pet foods is mostly
involved with labelling.  If the contents are beef, chicken, fish,
whatever, the label must say so.  It is the mysterious "meat
by-products" that can legally contain the flesh or rendered flesh of any
mammals, including mink, marine mammals, zoo animals and, as shown by
some well documented instances in the past, euthanized pets.
GAUBSTER2 - 29 Dec 2003 23:45 GMT
>From: frlpwr frlpwr@flash.net

>> One buys premium cat food with recognizable ingredients,
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>mammals, including mink, marine mammals, zoo animals and, as shown by
>some well documented instances in the past, euthanized pets.

You've been away for awhile, haven't you Betsy?  As for "well documented"
instances, I'll have to disagree w/ you strongly on that one.  Please provide a
name of a food that had dead dogs and/or cats in it.  I dare you!  ;)
Hagar - 30 Dec 2003 08:55 GMT
> >From: frlpwr frlpwr@flash.net
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> As for "well documented"
> instances, I'll have to disagree w/ you strongly on that one.

The fact that you disagree isn't exactly PROOF of Betsy's
statement, but it's certainly a good indication that she's
correct.

> Please provide a
> name of a food that had dead dogs and/or cats in it.  I dare you!  ;)

Do your own research.
We have.

You can start here:  http://www.belfield.com/article3.html but
since it contains statements you disagree with, you presumably
won't be able to read it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This message was posted via one or more anonymous remailing services.
The original sender is unknown.  Any address shown in the From header
is unverified.
PawsForThought - 30 Dec 2003 14:02 GMT
>From: Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header  (Hagar)

>> >From: frlpwr frlpwr@flash.net
>>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>Do your own research.
>We have.

Gaubster doesn't do research.  He's a troll that just makes inflammatory
remarks.
________
See my cats:  http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
GAUBSTER2 - 30 Dec 2003 16:26 GMT
>From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter  (PawsForThought)

>>> Please provide a
>>> name of a food that had dead dogs and/or cats in it.  I dare
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>remarks.
>________

All right, Lauren, let's see you try to answer this.  Instead of being a troll
yourself, perhaps you would like to answer the question.  Which pet foods have
dead dogs and cats in them?  You can't answer that question either as you have
no proof.  Instead of repeating what other people say, you might want to find
out on your own.  And looking up conspiracy theories on the internet doesn't
count!  ;)

FYI, I don't make inflammatory remarks.  I'd like to see you provide some
proof.  It's probably a waste of time to even ask that of you since you've
proven yourself to be a liar in the past.  Just because doesn't agree w/ you
when you are caught lying (as you have in the past) doesn't mean they are
"inflammatory" or a "troll".  But I can see why you would want to paint
somebody like that.
GAUBSTER2 - 30 Dec 2003 16:20 GMT
>Subject: Re: Cat Food and Mad Cow Disease
>From: Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header  (Hagar)

>> As for "well documented"
>> instances, I'll have to disagree w/ you strongly on that one.
>
>The fact that you disagree isn't exactly PROOF of Betsy's
>statement, but it's certainly a good indication that she's
>correct.

That is so illogical, I can't believe you would even type such drivel.  That's
the equivilent of Betsy stating that the sun will rise tomorrow in the west.  I
state that I disagree and you come in and state that she must be right because
I disagree?  You must be embarrased!

>> Please provide a
>> name of a food that had dead dogs and/or cats in it.  I dare
>you!  ;)
>
>Do your own research.
>We have.

I asked a direct question and you can't answer it.  If it happens all the time
and is so common as to be a "problem", then you should have no problem rattling
off a whole bunch of foods that contain dead dogs and cats.  Since there are
none, however, that is exactly the response I thought I would get from you!

>You can start here:  http://www.belfield.com/article3.html but
>since it contains statements you disagree with, you presumably
>won't be able to read it.

That's all you got??  LOL  I'll ask you AGAIN....which pet foods have dead dogs
and cats in them?  If you can't provide that information, it'll be apparent to
everybody reading this that you are either a troll or quite mad.
Jean B. - 29 Dec 2003 15:57 GMT
> One buys premium cat food with recognizable ingredients, or else one cooks
> for ones cat.  I've been trying to educate friends and family and whoever
> will listen for YEARS that mystery meats in pet food are bad news, Steve
> Crane & Hills to the contrary!

Do premium cat foods list the parts of the animal that are used?
As far as cooking food for one's cats, how do you ensure they get
the proper nutrients in the proper balance?

And why aren't premium cat foods available locally?  Is it the
quality vs. quantity thing?  

Signature

Jean B.

Betsy - 29 Dec 2003 16:39 GMT
If the food says "chicken" it must be meat.  If it says "chicken by
products" it may be any other part of the chicken.  If it says "meat" "fat"
"bone" "liver" it could be anything.  You just have to read carefully.

There is only one store nearby here in Baltimore that sells premium pet
foods, and they have quite a few brands to choose from.  They also have four
do it yourself pet bath stations AND a swimming pool (heated) for dogs!

Many of these foods can be found online with research.  Check the archives
in Google groups, too.

It takes a lot of footwork and homework.

> > One buys premium cat food with recognizable ingredients, or else one cooks
> > for ones cat.  I've been trying to educate friends and family and whoever
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> And why aren't premium cat foods available locally?  Is it the
> quality vs. quantity thing?
PawsForThought - 29 Dec 2003 17:11 GMT
>From: "Jean B." jbxyz@rcn.com

>> One buys premium cat food with recognizable ingredients, or else one cooks
>> for ones cat.  I've been trying to educate friends and family and whoever
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>As far as cooking food for one's cats, how do you ensure they get
>the proper nutrients in the proper balance?

You can consult with a vet who is well-qualified in feline nutrition, or you
can find recipes in books written by vets, or you can communicate with other
people who feed their animals a properly balanced home diet.  It's really not
rocket science if you do your research thoroughly.  Afterall, we do make our
own food for ourselves and our children, don't we?

Lauren

________
See my cats:  http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
Steve Crane - 30 Dec 2003 01:49 GMT
> One buys premium cat food with recognizable ingredients, or else one cooks
> for ones cat.  I've been trying to educate friends and family and whoever
> will listen for YEARS that mystery meats in pet food are bad news, Steve
> Crane & Hills to the contrary!

Jean,
 Education is a two way street. The term "mystery" meat is simply
silly. Pet foods contain what you the consumer demand to have in the
food. Thus if you want chicken in the food, that's what you get.
Personally I don't care what meat protein a consumer desires, they are
all pretty similar in nutrient composition (lamb excepted). On the
other hand the decision to use any particular ingredient is quite
silly and of little value to the pet. It is the nutrients that the
ingredient provide that are of critical importance. When a consumer
makes a decision based on ingredients they can potentially get into
trouble. Making such a decision is about on par with doing third grade
math - simple addition and subtraction. Making decisions based on the
*nutrients* provided in the food is stepping up to the next level of
nutrition - about on par with high school calculus and trig. As long
as a consumer is content with third grade elementary nutrition, and
there are no disease issues to contend with, choosing a food based on
ingredients works just fine. Unfortunately such choices can prove
potentially disastrous. Placing a geriatric kitty of a food with "good
sounding" ingredients and phosphorus levels above 1.5%, sodium levels
above 1% and low levels of N-3 fatty acids could prove lethal.
Steve Crane - 30 Dec 2003 01:37 GMT
> So I wonder how one can avoid such foods, since all of the
> credible commercial foods contain byproducts?  The chicken etc.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> a human, to avoid possibly contaminated foods than it is to
> protect my feline friends.

Jean,
  Just to make sure there is no confusion here. A pet food labelled
to contain "chicken by products" does NOT contain beef or other meat
meals, it contains CHICKEN by-products and is therefore of no concern.
The term by-products will always have a classification noun to
accompany it in North America. (This is not true is Europe where pet
foods may be labelled simply "meat".)  For example chicken
by-products, lamb by-products, or pork by-products etc. It can be
generic under the legal definition "meat-by-products", which can
include any mammalian source of meat protein. If your pet food
contains the ingredient "chicken by-product" - it contains by-products
of chicken, (usually internal organs, backs and necks) not by-products
from beef or any other mammal.
Jean B. - 03 Jan 2004 21:42 GMT
> > So I wonder how one can avoid such foods, since all of the
> > credible commercial foods contain byproducts?  The chicken etc.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> of chicken, (usually internal organs, backs and necks) not by-products
> from beef or any other mammal.

Yes, I do understand that....
Signature

Jean B.

 
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