Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / December 2003
Cats & The Holidays
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Cat Protector - 15 Dec 2003 03:14 GMT Which holiday does your cat celebrate? Both myself and my cats celebrate Chanukah. This year Isis and Jade will again get presents but I have no idea what to get them.
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Judy - 15 Dec 2003 05:17 GMT > Which holiday does your cat celebrate? Non. My cat has no concept of these. Holidays were devised by humans.
> Both myself and my cats celebrate Chanukah. You will celebrate Chanukah - as far as I know, cats are not followers of religions.
>This year Isis and Jade will again get presents but I have no idea what to get them.
If you want to give them something - give them your love. Cats aren't materialistic. Bless their souls.
Judy
Cat Protector - 15 Dec 2003 05:47 GMT How do you know that cats have no concept of the holidays? Am I to take it that your cats get no presents, treats or anything else this holiday season? If that is the case, how sad. My cats will get presents, treats and other goodies this holiday season.
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> Non. My cat has no concept of these. Holidays were devised by humans. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Judy Laura R. - 15 Dec 2003 06:13 GMT circa Sun, 14 Dec 2003 22:47:52 -0700, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cat Protector (catprotector@cox.net) said,
> How do you know that cats have no concept of the holidays? Am I to take it > that your cats get no presents, treats or anything else this holiday season? > If that is the case, how sad. My cats will get presents, treats and other > goodies this holiday season. That's because you're a bubble or two left of center.
Laura
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Judy - 16 Dec 2003 03:56 GMT > circa Sun, 14 Dec 2003 22:47:52 -0700, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, > Cat Protector (catprotector@cox.net) said, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Laura I agree totally.
Judy
Cat Protector - 16 Dec 2003 06:14 GMT You can knock me all you want but I still feel there is nothing wrong with getting my felines gifts for the holidays. To me my cats are members of the family and are my kids. It is sad that you two feel cats are nothing but animals not deserving of presents or anything else this holiday season. I for one am proud to say I am a cat lover.
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> > > circa Sun, 14 Dec 2003 22:47:52 -0700, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Judy Sherry - 16 Dec 2003 14:08 GMT >You can knock me all you want but I still feel there is nothing wrong with >getting my felines gifts for the holidays. To me my cats are members of the >family and are my kids. It is sad that you two feel cats are nothing but >animals not deserving of presents or anything else this holiday season. No one said cats are nothing but animals. No one. Ever. Cats are deserving of presents. Cats are also deserving of a good home, shelter, and food. Like the strays at your complex.
Sherry
I
>for one am proud to say I am a cat lover. PawsForThought - 16 Dec 2003 18:29 GMT >From: sriddles@aol.comkitty (Sherry )
>No one said cats are nothing but animals. No one. Ever. Cats are deserving >of >presents. Cats are also deserving of a good home, shelter, and food. Like the >strays at your complex. I agree! CP, don't you think Isis and Jade would much prefer you buy some food for those kitties instead of getting them gifts? I don't think they could enjoy their gifts knowing that there are two very needy strays that could use some food.
Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
Ray Ban - 17 Dec 2003 00:35 GMT > >From: sriddles@aol.comkitty (Sherry ) > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > enjoy their gifts knowing that there are two very needy strays that could use > some food. Assuming Isis and Jade are aware of the strays and understand their plight. I doubt it.
PawsForThought - 17 Dec 2003 01:43 GMT >From: ray2003092003@yahoo.com (Ray Ban)
>> >From: sriddles@aol.comkitty (Sherry ) >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Assuming Isis and Jade are aware of the strays and understand their >plight. I doubt it. Well then CP can explain it to them ;)
Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
Cat Protector - 17 Dec 2003 02:26 GMT Ok. I am going to make things perfectly clear here. You are knocking me about the strays without knowing the entire facts. I have and I REPEAT not seen the cats yet. I also stated that the strays are being fed by some people in the complex. I was contacted by the management regarding the cats and I went searching for them and have not found them. I also have been contacting no-kill shelters to see if they can be taken in but a lot of them have told me they are too full. I am doing what I can. Of course none of this has been good enough for some of the people on here.
My cats will get presents this year and I am not going to feel bad about that. I have been called names on here because a certain portion of you think it is strange to give my cats presents for birthdays and holidays. I don't know what else to say but that I am proud of it.
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> >From: sriddles@aol.comkitty (Sherry ) > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html > Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm Laura R. - 17 Dec 2003 05:56 GMT circa Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:26:04 -0700, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cat Protector (catprotector@cox.net) said,
> I was contacted by the management regarding the cats > and I went searching for them and have not found them. Actually, as you put it, you were approached to take the cats in and wouldn't, and as far as the neighbors "feeding" the cats, it was *hot dogs*. Sorry, your credibility is thin.
Laura
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zuzu22@webtv.net - 17 Dec 2003 06:38 GMT > Ok. I am going to make things perfectly > clear here. You are knocking me about [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > are being fed by some people in the > complex. Then find out who is feeding the cats, contact them, and make arrangements to be there when they feed them so you can see them. You can also find out where they are feeding them and take over the duties. Feed them on a schedule so that, if you can't catch them by hand, you can trap them.
>I was contacted by the > management regarding the cats and I went > searching for them and have not found > them. See above.
>I also have been contacting > no-kill shelters to see if they can be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > good enough for some of the people on > here. You can do other things that may very well get these cats into homes. You can print up flyers and distribute them door to door in your complex and surrouding neoghborhood saying that you are looking for either permanent homes for some cats in need, or at the very least foster homes until the cats can be placed. Include the very sad story of what happened to these poor cats and how dire their situation is. You can also post some of your flyers at some of the smaller pet stores and veterinary clinics in your area. You can give some of the flyers to your friends and ask them to post them at their place of work.
You have a perfect opportunity here to help two cats get into homes and there is no reason you can't do it with some effort on your part. People tend to be more generous and kind during this holiday season and if you havre a lick of sense you'll take advantage of that and do everything you can to get these cats to safety. Remember, you're the one that keeps claiming you do cat rescue. Go do some.
Megan
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
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"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way."
- W.H. Murray
-L. - 19 Dec 2003 08:46 GMT > > Ok. I am going to make things perfectly > > clear here. You are knocking me about [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > until the cats can be placed. Include the very sad story of what > happened to these poor cats and how dire their situation is. If s/he does this, likely s/he will find that there are others in the complex willing to help.
Personally, I think the managment has an obligation to find out what is going on with the cats on the property, and if they do not, then I would certainly take the matter into my own hands, and *then* think seriously about moving. The safety of the cats certainly has to come first, though.
-L.
Yngver - 17 Dec 2003 16:29 GMT >My cats will get presents this year and I am not going to feel bad about >that. I have been called names on here because a certain portion of you >think it is strange to give my cats presents for birthdays and holidays. I >don't know what else to say but that I am proud of it. No, that is not why you have been criticized. It's because of your failure to help the strays you posted about.
Cat Protector - 17 Dec 2003 22:10 GMT I failed? Let me see, I called every shelter I could think of (they were full), tried to find who was feeding them (the management was unable to tell me as well), went looking for the cats in question, and gave the management the numbers of shelters should they find the cats. I even volunteered to help pay for vets. and if the cats are healthy volunteered to foster until they could be given to a shelter. Just what else do you expect me to do? It is a shame that this place has turned into place that true cat lovers are criticized by those who sit back and do nothing. I am at least doing something. I do also have to take care of my two cats as well and make a living. Of course that doesn't seem to be good enough for some of you.
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> >My cats will get presents this year and I am not going to feel bad about > >that. I have been called names on here because a certain portion of you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > No, that is not why you have been criticized. It's because of your failure to > help the strays you posted about. Laura R. - 18 Dec 2003 02:23 GMT circa Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:10:30 -0700, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cat Protector (catprotector@cox.net) said,
> I failed? Let me see, I called every shelter I could think of (they were > full), tried to find who was feeding them (the management was unable to tell [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > something. I do also have to take care of my two cats as well and make a > living. Of course that doesn't seem to be good enough for some of you. You haven't *done* a damned thing to help those cats. You were asked to foster them temporarily and refused because you "couldn't afford" to do so, but now you suddenly have money to "pay for vets"? PUH- LEEZE don't claim you volunteered to foster when your *own posts* say otherwise. Do you even KNOW you're lying?
Laura
 Signature Neurosis is the inability to tolerate ambiguity. -Sigmund Freud
Sherry - 18 Dec 2003 17:20 GMT > It >is a shame that this place has turned into place that true cat lovers are >criticized by those who sit back and do nothing. Exactly who are you referring to in that vague sentence about being criticized by "those who sit back and do nothing." I sincerely hope you aren't referring to anyone who replied to this thread. CP, you have a stellar chance to be a real cat protector. Step up to the plate. Protecting cats isn't about providing them with jazz music--it's about sheltering the homeless, and feeding the hungry. Use your computer to make up some flyers. Post them, with your phone number, at the office or laundry facility or other places all the residents are likely to see it. Put your phone number on it, and find out who is feeding them. Get a trap and bait it near where they're used to being fed. "Cat Protecting" isn't about making phone calls and depending on shelters to make it happen. Please, just jump in there and do whatever it takes. Megan's right about this being the perfect time of year. People are just more giving of themselves *and* their pocketbooks, not to be cynical, but that's the reason we run out membership campaign in December.
zuzu22@webtv.net - 18 Dec 2003 22:36 GMT > I failed? Let me see, I called every > shelter I could think of (they were > full), tried to find who was feeding > them (the management was unable to tell > me as well) <snip>
You are flat out lying. You know exactly who is feeding at least one of the cats, and you know where to find at least one of them if you make a little effort. You said so yourself. Let me refresh your memory:
"Besides one of the residents feeding the cat hot dogs another said she has left food out for the cat every morning. However, she said she hates cats because she is apparently allergic to them. Also, as I said before one of the office people who said the cat kept going back to her old apartment has cats of her own but she isn't willing to take the cat in."
>I even volunteered to help pay for > vets. and if the cats are healthy > volunteered to foster until they could > be given to a shelter. Just what else do > you expect me to do? When you originally posted about this, you claimed you couldn't afford to pay for vet care, yet now that you are being questioned you claim you offered to? Bullshit.
>It is a shame that > this place has turned into place that > true cat lovers are criticized by those > who sit back and do nothing. And who *exactly* are you referring to here? Be very careful how you answer that.
>I am at > least doing something. You are lying and whining while two abandoned cats are left to fend for themselves. That's not the kind of "something" you should be striving for.
>I do also have to > take care of my two cats as well and > make a living. Of course that doesn't > seem to be good enough for some of you. Well, boo-effing-hoo. Do you think you're the only one here that has responsibilities?
Apparently making true sacrifices is not your cup of tea. Before you boo hoo any more why don't you talk to Cheryl, who lost her son in a car crash and is still grieving, has to give ongoing care to her IBD/Felv+ cat, and deal with another cat that has aggression issues and serious skin problems. Despite all that, she still managed to trap and tame a feral kitten and then found a great home for not one, but TWO outdoor strays by doing exactly the things that I suggested *you* do in a previous post. It wasn't easy for her by any means, but she did it because it was the right thing to do and she has the integrity to see that and follow through.
Or you can talk to Christine, who already has her hands full with some intense family stuff, yet she not only trapped two ferals and took them in, but spent months intensively working with one of the cats that has serious aggression issues, teaching it not to bite. And that's not the end of it. She also trapped a third stray that turned up FIV+, and, while her hands were full with ten million other things, she managed to find a home for this cat by making up flyers and spreading the word about him everywhere she could think of. It wasn't easy by any means, and she could have easily walked away, but she knew it was the right thing to do and stepped up to the plate.
There are plenty of others here that have similar stories and for every minute you are whining, they are making sacrifices, juggling finances, or taking risks to help cats. You aren't.
It is pretty clear that you want the pats on the back and want to project an image as someone who wants to protect cats, but your actions, or should I say your LACK OF, paint quite a different picture.
This whole thing is a real shame... no... actually it's a TRAGEDY, because you have an opportunity to do some good for two cats, but you aren't willing to do WHATEVER IT TAKES. In the meantime there are two cats out there that are abandoned and homeless that could be helped if you'd get off your a.s and get busy. You also might want to take a minute to read and comprehend the quotes in my sigline. They are both VERY pertinent to this matter.
Megan
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com
Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22
"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way."
- W.H. Murray
Cat Protector - 19 Dec 2003 01:15 GMT I am not lying. I have no clue which neighbors are feeding the cats and neither does the management. I think it is rather rude and obnoxious of you to flame me like this of course I am not surprised. As for my not being able to afford vet care, if you had read my post you would have seen that I was willing to chip in the first few dollars. Flame me all you want but I don't see you saying that you'd help me in rescuing the cats. In fact I don't see you offering friendly advice. BTW, for your information one of my neighbors after speaking to them said they'd be willing to take in one of the cats which I have reported to management. Of course, that also means very little to you since all you want to do is make nasty comments, call people liars and of course ride on a high horse.
I think killfiling you is probably best here because you seem to want to have a flame war. For all that crap your are spewing let us not forget that I rescued two cats last year and both went to good homes. In fact one of them Jade is still with me so don't go around saying I do nothing. I am doing something but I hardly have to impress you. You find fault with every post and have nothing better to do than to attack people on the boards. How sad that you have to act like a child here. I for one will not stoop to your level and resort to name calling. I do what I can but I can't save every cat. Not everyone is Superman.
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> You are flat out lying. You know exactly who is feeding at least one of > the cats, and you know where to find at least one of them if you make a [quoted text clipped - 99 lines] > > - W.H. Murray Sherry - 19 Dec 2003 05:49 GMT > Flame me all you want but I don't >see you saying that you'd help me in rescuing the cats. In fact I don't see >you offering friendly advice. Exactly what is Megan supposed to do? Fly to Arizona and catch the cats *for* you, or send you money? Exactly what? Cripes. She's given you the formula. All you have to do is follow it. Can't you put out some effort, like knocking on doors, doing flyers, borrowing a trap, or staking out where the cats usually feed?
Sherry
Instant Karma - 19 Dec 2003 09:13 GMT > > Flame me all you want but I don't >>see you saying that you'd help me in rescuing the cats. In fact I don't see [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Sherry He's got a RADIO STATION FOR CATS!!! Just what the hell ELSE do you want him to do for cats?!?! Isn't THAT enough??????????
Yngver - 19 Dec 2003 15:52 GMT >He's got a RADIO STATION FOR CATS!!! Just what the hell ELSE do you want >him to do for cats?!?! Isn't THAT enough?????????? LOL. Good one.
Yngver - 19 Dec 2003 15:55 GMT >Exactly what is Megan supposed to do? Fly to Arizona and catch the cats *for* >you, or send you money? Exactly what? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >or >staking out where the cats usually feed? You know, CP received plenty of good advice on how to help those cats. Knowing him, what he probably means by "help" is for someone to send him money, since he obviously didn't like the non-financial kind of help he's been given here.
zuzu22@webtv.net - 19 Dec 2003 16:10 GMT >Exactly what is Megan supposed to do? >Fly to Arizona and catch the cats *for* >you, or send you money? Exactly what? It boggles the mind doesn't it? I don't have time right now to respond to him, but I have written a flyer that can get him started (not that I expect him to lift a finger...)
All he has to do is cut and paste, add one description, his name and number, then print it out and post copies at the management office, all the mailbox areas in the complex and all the back entries.
*ATTENTION RESIDENTS*
There are two cats that have been cruelly abandoned in the complex and left to fend for themselves by former residents. One is <put description here>, declawed and has no way to defend itself. The other is <put description here>. I would like to find permanent, responsible homes for these poor cats, or at the very least foster homes until they can be placed, and I can really use some help. If you have seen them, are feeding them, or know who is please contact me ASAP. If you know of anyone that could provide a forever home for either of these cats leads would be appreciated. If anyone is interested in donating a little to help pay for veterinary care a collection jar has been set up at the management office. Helping to rescue these cats and get them into loving, caring homes would be one of the greatest gifts you can give this holiday season. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for any assistance you can provide.
<Put name and contact info here>
Megan
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com
Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22
"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way."
- W.H. Murray
MaryL - 19 Dec 2003 17:16 GMT > >Exactly what is Megan supposed to do? > >Fly to Arizona and catch the cats *for* [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Megan That was an excellent idea to post a basic flyer. That same information could be modified by others who may face a similar situation. I really don't know how you find the time to follow through with all that you do.
MaryL
Cheryl - 19 Dec 2003 18:31 GMT > That was an excellent idea to post a basic flyer. That same information > could be modified by others who may face a similar situation. I really > don't know how you find the time to follow through with all that you do. That was good. I'd "fall" for it. ;) Actually she wrote "Jake LaMeowta"'s flyer. :) I had a few people interested in him with that one.
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"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." - Helen Keller
Laura R. - 19 Dec 2003 06:19 GMT circa Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:15:29 -0700, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cat Protector (catprotector@cox.net) said,
> I am not lying. I have no clue which neighbors are feeding the cats and > neither does the management. I think it is rather rude and obnoxious of you > to flame me like this of course I am not surprised. As for my not being able > to afford vet care, if you had read my post you would have seen that I was > willing to chip in the first few dollars. Liar, liar, liar. If you don't want to help those cats, so be it. But don't lie and claim that you do, and don't you *dare* claim that others *aren't* doing what you refuse to do.
Laura
 Signature I am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated.
Instant Karma - 19 Dec 2003 09:32 GMT <SNIP>
>I think killfiling you is probably best here because you seem to want to >have a flame war. <SNIP>
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y13024AD6
Laura R. - 20 Dec 2003 00:15 GMT circa Fri, 19 Dec 2003 04:32:59 -0500, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Instant Karma (Instant Karma) said,
> <SNIP> > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y13024AD6 The only thing consistent about CP is his lunacy.
Laura
 Signature I am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated.
Rona Yuthasastrakosol - 20 Dec 2003 00:42 GMT > The only thing consistent about CP is his lunacy. > > Laura And his hypocrisy...
rona
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Laura R. - 20 Dec 2003 05:26 GMT circa Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:42:34 -0600, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Rona Yuthasastrakosol (prasantrin@yahoo.com) said,
> > The only thing consistent about CP is his lunacy. > > > > Laura > > And his hypocrisy... Oh, yeah, that too.
Laura
 Signature Let us be thankful for fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed. -Mark Twain
Cathy Friedmann - 16 Dec 2003 21:25 GMT > You can knock me all you want but I still feel there is nothing wrong with > getting my felines gifts for the holidays. To me my cats are members of the > family and are my kids. It is sad that you two feel cats are nothing but > animals not deserving of presents or anything else this holiday season. I > for one am proud to say I am a cat lover. There is nothing wrong w/ getting pets presents for holidays or their b'days; lots of people do. Otoh, pets don't have a concept of holidays as people do. They don't know Christmas & Hanukkah are coming shortly; they don't celebrate Christ's birth or the oil lamp burning for 8 days, or realize there's a commercial aspect to the whole holiday business. If they aren't given a present, they're not going to mope or feel hurt like a child would. They may enjoy the tree, tidbits of the food, the wrappings, etc. when the holiday arrives. But that's about it, IMO.
Cathy
-- "Staccato signals of constant information..." ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon
> -- > Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > > > Judy Sherry - 15 Dec 2003 14:20 GMT >How do you know that cats have no concept of the holidays? Am I to take it >that your cats get no presents, treats or anything else this holiday season? >If that is the case, how sad. My cats will get presents, treats and other >goodies this holiday season. Cats don't have a concept of the holidays. But I believe they *do* get excited and enjoy the all the trappings anyway. The tree, the wrapping paper, ribbons, all that. If you really want to buy them something for the holiday, you could make a donation in their name to your shelter. Or buy a turbo scratcher or something and take out there. (Or give them a call-I bet they have a wish list) Sherry
Rona Yuthasastrakosol - 15 Dec 2003 05:49 GMT > If you want to give them something - give them your love. Cats aren't > materialistic. Bless their souls. > > Judy I think he should donate the money he would spend on his cats' gifts to the two stray cats in his apartment complex. Maybe they could use it at the vet's or for some food.
Again, a perfect example of CP's hypocrisy. Says he can't help the stray cats because he's short on money, yet has money to buy his cats gifts for some holiday they don't give rat's a.s about.
rona
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Instant Karma - 15 Dec 2003 09:29 GMT >> If you want to give them something - give them your love. Cats aren't >> materialistic. Bless their souls. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >rona LOL!
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