Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / December 2003
Dry food and drinking at the same time
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Cheryl - 13 Dec 2003 04:17 GMT If a cat who will only eat dry food (good quality food) also drinks at the same time, ie eats some then drinks, then eats more, then drinks... isn't that close to the same as eating wet food, as far as their body knows? I've observed this with Bonnie and she even dribbles dry food into the water while she eats/drinks.
 Signature Cheryl
"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." - Helen Keller
Worldwide Candle Lighting in Memory of all Children, Dec 14, 2003 7pm in all time zones http://thecompassionatefriends.org/2003_WWCL/2003_wcl.htm http://thecompassionatefriends.org/2003_WWCL/senres.htm
-this in memory of my Eric-
Dennis Carr - 13 Dec 2003 08:21 GMT > If a cat who will only eat dry food (good quality food) also drinks at the > same time, ie eats some then drinks, then eats more, then drinks... isn't > that close to the same as eating wet food, as far as their body knows? Well, basically, no.
Whereas moist food is exactly that, your cat will eat some, which dries his mouth out, so he drinks to wet his whistle, and repeats ad not-hungrium.
On the other hand, well....
> I've observed this with Bonnie and she even dribbles dry food into the > water while she eats/drinks. ...this could also mean the kibble is too hard for them, and may be paining them to eat. Perhaps the cat has dental trouble?
 Signature Dennis Carr - ke6isf@spamcop.net | I may be out of my mind, http://www.dennis.furtopia.org | But I have more fun that way. ------------------------------------+-------------------------------
Cheryl - 13 Dec 2003 21:41 GMT 13 Dec 2003:
>> If a cat who will only eat dry food (good quality food) also drinks >> at the same time, ie eats some then drinks, then eats more, then >> drinks... isn't that close to the same as eating wet food, as far as >> their body knows? > > Well, basically, no. I'd rather she eat canned but I'm not having luck converting her. She's a former feral who ate dry food that I put out for the stray gang last winter. I don't think she's ever really hunted. She was very young when I trapped her. I was kinda hoping that by the way that she eats, that the water mixes with her food in her tummy and makes the end result the same as if she was eating canned.
> ad not-hungrium. I've not heard that term before. Are you making things up ;)
>> I've observed this with Bonnie and she even dribbles dry food into >> the water while she eats/drinks. > > ...this could also mean the kibble is too hard for them, and may be > paining them to eat. Perhaps the cat has dental trouble? Oh, I hope not; she's not even a year old yet. When I described it this way I meant that she will eat some dry food, then take a drink and most likely she still has food in her mouth. She crunches it just fine. She goes from dry to water, back to dry, back to water, etc throughout her meal.
 Signature Cheryl
"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." - Helen Keller
Worldwide Candle Lighting in Memory of all Children, Dec 14, 2003 7pm in all time zones http://thecompassionatefriends.org/2003_WWCL/2003_wcl.htm http://thecompassionatefriends.org/2003_WWCL/senres.htm
-this in memory of my Eric-
Joe Canuck - 13 Dec 2003 14:32 GMT > If a cat who will only eat dry food (good quality food) also drinks at the > same time, ie eats some then drinks, then eats more, then drinks... isn't > that close to the same as eating wet food, as far as their body knows? > I've observed this with Bonnie and she even dribbles dry food into the > water while she eats/drinks. I have read that it isn't quite the same as far as the body is concerned but I'm still not convinced as water intake is water intake no matter where it comes from.
As for what I've read... the theory was that cats who eat wet food satisify most of their moisture requirements with the food and that most of this moisture is excreted as urine rather than moisture in the feces.
On the other hand, cats who consume dry food are the opposite. They need to drink to satisfy the moisture requirement, some may not drink enough. The moisture is excreted more in the feces than it is in the urine.
I don't understand any more about it than this. I have observed a different behavior in my own cat who consumes dry. She will settle down for a meal of dry and then sometime afterwards will have a drink. She drinks quite a lot during the day. The size of the clumps in the litter box are evidence of that.
To me, ingestion of water no matter what the source results in the same thing. I cannot see how there is what would amount to a water traffic copy that would direct water that comes in the food more into the urine and water from drinking into the urine. I would think the body deals with water the same no matter where it comes from.
But then what do I know? I'm just a former trucker... former computer guy... now working on developing yet another career. :-)
 Signature "Its the bugs that keep it running." -Joe Canuck
Cheryl - 13 Dec 2003 21:51 GMT 13 Dec 2003:
> I have read that it isn't quite the same as far as the body is concerned > but I'm still not convinced as water intake is water intake no matter > where it comes from. I've read that, too. I do know that when Shadow ate all canned food, he rarely drank water. Shamrock eats mainly canned food now and rarely drinks which sucks because after his dental, the vet said to put an enzyme into his drinking water to help break down plaque.
> As for what I've read... the theory was that cats who eat wet food > satisify most of their moisture requirements with the food and that most [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to drink to satisfy the moisture requirement, some may not drink enough. > The moisture is excreted more in the feces than it is in the urine. This is the part that scares me. She's already had a bout of UTI and I do know it is important to get her peeing more. Her pee balls are kind of small; I can tell the difference between hers and Shamrock (who pees like a race horse). Then again it's hard to distinguish any of their litter box doings sometimes with Shadow coming in and spraying diarrhea all over the box. <sigh> We go through a lot of litter. lol
> I don't understand any more about it than this. I have observed a > different behavior in my own cat who consumes dry. She will settle down > for a meal of dry and then sometime afterwards will have a drink. She > drinks quite a lot during the day. The size of the clumps in the litter > box are evidence of that. That's great to read.
 Signature Cheryl
"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." - Helen Keller
Worldwide Candle Lighting in Memory of all Children, Dec 14, 2003 7pm in all time zones http://thecompassionatefriends.org/2003_WWCL/2003_wcl.htm http://thecompassionatefriends.org/2003_WWCL/senres.htm
-this in memory of my Eric-
Joe Canuck - 14 Dec 2003 01:33 GMT > 13 Dec 2003: > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > That's great to read. > I tried putting ice cubes in the Drinkwell for the first time yesterday. I think she enjoyed the cold drink more than the entertainment of the ice cubes floating around in the pool.
At one time I had two cats and it was my experience they both started drinking more with the introduction of the fountain.
 Signature "Its the bugs that keep it running." -Joe Canuck
afr - 14 Dec 2003 16:58 GMT I too have read that water consumed with dry food tends to go more to the feces than to urine. Canned food tends to go to urine. If your cat hasn't been blocked, I don't think you need to be concerned about this. But in my cat's case, he was on a high-quality natural dry-food diet, and he drank lots of water. He pooped more than he does now, but he blocked. He's also quite sedentary since he's become an indoor cat, and I am nearly certain that is part of the equation as he is overweight. :)
ava
> > 13 Dec 2003: > > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > "Its the bugs that keep it running." > -Joe Canuck Paulette - 14 Dec 2003 20:53 GMT another fact: a cat uses (loses) water in grooming; about as much as it loses in urine.
Laura R. - 14 Dec 2003 04:00 GMT circa 13 Dec 2003 21:51:30 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cheryl (jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com) said,
> I've read that, too. I do know that when Shadow ate all canned food, he > rarely drank water. Shamrock eats mainly canned food now and rarely drinks > which sucks because after his dental, the vet said to put an enzyme into > his drinking water to help break down plaque. Can't you put the enzyme into his food?
Laura
 Signature I am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated.
Cheryl - 14 Dec 2003 22:47 GMT Dec 2003:
> circa 13 Dec 2003 21:51:30 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cheryl > (jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Laura I'll have to ask; I don't see why not. Thanks! :) The other option on the bottle says to spray a fine mist directly into the mouth. Not sure he'll let me do that but I'll work on it.
 Signature Cheryl
"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." - Helen Keller
Laura R. - 14 Dec 2003 23:51 GMT circa 14 Dec 2003 22:47:51 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cheryl (jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com) said,
> > Can't you put the enzyme into his food? > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > bottle says to spray a fine mist directly into the mouth. Not sure he'll > let me do that but I'll work on it. If you can get a cat to let you mist him in the mouth, let me know how you managed it. ;-)
Laura
 Signature I am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated.
Phil P. - 14 Dec 2003 05:05 GMT > If a cat who will only eat dry food (good quality food) also drinks at the > same time, ie eats some then drinks, then eats more, then drinks... isn't > that close to the same as eating wet food, as far as their body knows? Not as far as total water intake and water turnover are concerned. Cats fed dry food drink about 6x more water than cats fed canned food, but their total water intake (from food and drinking) decreases when they're fed dry food only. Specifically, when fed dry food, the total water to dry matter intake ratio (TH20/DM) varies from 2.0 to 2.8: 1 whereas on canned foods it varies from 3. 0 to 5.7: 1 -- 150% to 200% higher when fed canned food with a moisture content of 75% or more. There have been >20 years of studies that have confirmed and reconfirmed this fact.
The reason why cats become dehydrated so easily and quickly is because they have a somewhat weak thirst drive - which they inherited from their desert-dwelling ancestors - who evolved obtaining most (>90%) of their total water requirement from their food (prey). As a consequence, they never developed a strong thirst drive and therefore can't make rapid and precise changes in their water intake to compensate for changes in their hydration status.
The higher water intake and water turnover achieved from canned food results in more frequent urination -- which is actually the first line of defense in preventing ascending infections of the urinary tract. Frequent urination inhibits bacterial colonization of the urinary tract by frequently washing out bacteria and organisms from the bladder and urethra with fresh, sterile urine. Another advantage of a higher water turnover and higher urine volume is distention of the bladder and urethra -- which stretches and opens mucosal folds and crevices where bacteria can become trapped.
The higher urine volume also dilutes the concentration of potentially calculogenic solutes and crystalloids -- the frequent urination flushes the solutes from the urinary tract before they can grow large enough to cause a problem.
So as you can see, there's a little more to it.
Phil
Cheryl - 14 Dec 2003 22:52 GMT > So as you can see, there's a little more to it. Yeah.. wishful thinking. Didn't hurt to ask. I just can't get her to eat canned food consistantly. She's a hardhead and would rather not eat at all then eat canned food. She's been all day without food before just trying to get her to eat it. And I've started slow with mixing with dry; a nugget or two of cubed-shaped canned food in dry food, drizzle water on her dry, Mixit (with both canned and dry and a combination), so many flavors, types and brands....
 Signature Cheryl
"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." - Helen Keller
Joe Canuck - 15 Dec 2003 00:28 GMT >>So as you can see, there's a little more to it. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Mixit (with both canned and dry and a combination), so many flavors, types > and brands.... Mine will happily gobble up the wet food, but unfortunately her GI doesn't agree with it despite a rather long go at it some months back.
As you know, a cat with consistently soupy stools is... er... well... difficult. :-)
I wish SD had a Chicken & Rice wet formula.
 Signature "Its the bugs that keep it running." -Joe Canuck
Cheryl - 15 Dec 2003 01:16 GMT Dec 2003:
> I wish SD had a Chicken & Rice wet formula. A chunky one! Shamrock and Shadow both like Chicken and rice Petreet and Pro Plan. It is the consistency of it. They've tried the Natural \whatever\ and didn't like it.
 Signature Cheryl
"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." - Helen Keller
afr - 15 Dec 2003 02:37 GMT > Mine will happily gobble up the wet food, but unfortunately her GI > doesn't agree with it despite a rather long go at it some months back. > > As you know, a cat with consistently soupy stools is... er... well... > difficult. :-) I waa reluctant to bring up the topic, but as long as someone else has:
How can you tell the difference between loose stool and urine when you use clumping litter? I put it in a baggie, but still can't tell. (I know this is gross, buut I have to monitor him to help decide how frequently he needs fluids.)
Thanks,
a.
Joe Canuck - 15 Dec 2003 03:56 GMT >>Mine will happily gobble up the wet food, but unfortunately her GI >>doesn't agree with it despite a rather long go at it some months back. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > a. Smell. Unfortunately one has to put their nose to it for the sniff test.
 Signature "Its the bugs that keep it running." -Joe Canuck
PawsForThought - 15 Dec 2003 12:18 GMT >From: afr afr@efn.org
>How can you tell the difference between loose stool and urine when you use >clumping litter? I put it in a baggie, but still can't tell. (I know this >is gross, buut I have to monitor him to help decide how frequently he >needs fluids.) If you can't tell with clumping litter, you might want to try a regular clay un-clumping litter until your cat is back to health.
Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
Laura R. - 21 Dec 2003 19:28 GMT circa Sun, 14 Dec 2003 18:37:12 -0800, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, afr (afr@efn.org) said,
> How can you tell the difference between loose stool and urine when you use > clumping litter? Stab it with the side of the scooper and get a peek inside. Much better than smelling it. :-)
Laura
 Signature I am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated.
GAUBSTER2 - 15 Dec 2003 15:55 GMT >From: Joe Canuck Joe_Canuck@Canada.ca
>I wish SD had a Chicken & Rice wet formula. I've heard a rumor that they are coming out w/ several new varieties of canned food in the springtime.
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