 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsGeneral TopicsCat AnecdotesHealth and BehaviorRescue CatKB.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / January 2004How declawing saved my cat's life and gave him 6 more years (and counting)
The cat was mom's and she died after a long illness. The cat had clawed up a lot of furniture in the house and no one else wanted the cat. The cat also had a skin condition which now necessitates a depomedrol shot each month. I took the cat on condition that it would be declawed so it wouldn't tear my stuff up. The others involved didn't really want that to happen but didn't want the alternative (euthanasia). "Kitty kat" is very happy to still be alive and is actually doing better now than when I got him six and a half years ago. So, for all you anti-declawers I would tell you to go get a life. Cropwalk2004 The only problem with your argument is that, as I read it, the cat was declawed before you took it (yes?) and therefore you spent no time even trying to change the behavior. It might have served the cat better if you had come to this group years ago to try to find strategies to discourage the behavior. I never realized how many methods there are available to discourage inappropriate clawing till I started reading this NG. I'm glad you kitty is still alive and hasn't suffered (apparently) any of the negatives that are possible when this procedure is done. Wendy The cat was mom's and she died after a long illness. The cat had clawed up a lot of furniture in the house and no one else wanted the cat. The cat also had a skin condition which now necessitates a depomedrol shot each month. I took the cat on condition that it would be declawed so it wouldn't tear my stuff up. The others involved didn't really want that to happen but didn't want the alternative (euthanasia). "Kitty kat" is very happy to still be alive and is actually doing better now than when I got him six and a half years ago. So, for all you anti-declawers I would tell you to go get a life. Cropwalk2004 > The cat was mom's and she died after a long illness. The cat had > clawed up a lot of furniture in the house and no one else wanted the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > "Kitty kat" is very happy to still be alive and is actually doing > better now than when I got him six and a half years ago. A better man would have taken the cat and trained him/her, and therefore would not have had to mutilate her. I guess if that was the best you can do, then, well, there you have it. > So, for all you anti-declawers I would tell you to go get a life. Did you make that up yourself, you dimwitted scumbag whose life revolves around furniture? In news:cb3f1ff2.0311251300.17cf0699@posting.google.com, He Who Walks with Knuckles Dragging <cropwalk2004@hotmail.com> composed with style: > Crapwalk2004 ^^^^ was 2003 taken? Ho hum. Another troublemaker. :::YAWN:: > In news:cb3f1ff2.0311251300.17cf0699@posting.google.com, > He Who Walks with Knuckles Dragging <cropwalk2004@hotmail.com> Heh. >> In news:cb3f1ff2.0311251300.17cf0699@posting.google.com, >> He Who Walks with Knuckles Dragging <cropwalk2004@hotmail.com> > > Heh. The funny thing is that the OP came from some research company in NC. Do you think we're some sort of research project on how easily we're trolled? lol > >> In news:cb3f1ff2.0311251300.17cf0699@posting.google.com, > >> He Who Walks with Knuckles Dragging <cropwalk2004@hotmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Do you think we're some sort of research project on how easily we're > trolled? lol My god I hope not. Are you here in NC too? >> The funny thing is that the OP came from some research company in >> NC. Do you think we're some sort of research project on how easily >> we're trolled? lol > > My god I hope not. Are you here in NC too? LOL No. A little further north. The post came from: Trying whois -h whois.arin.net 152.31.32.65 OrgName: North Carolina Research and Education Network OrgID: CNRT Address: PO Box 12889 Address: 3021 Cornwallis Rd. City: Research Triangle Park StateProv: NC PostalCode: 27709 Country: US Since they never posted back, the email address was obviously just newly created, I wonder which part is the research? The groups reaction, or the declawing itself? > >> The funny thing is that the OP came from some research company in > >> NC. Do you think we're some sort of research project on how easily [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > newly created, I wonder which part is the research? The groups > reaction, or the declawing itself? How weird. I might look a little further into this when I can find the time. > In news:0CAxb.24190$Vu5.1927239@twister.southeast.rr.com, > Mary <rosefan@email.com> composed with style: > >> > >> The funny thing is that the OP came from some research company in > >> NC. Do you think we're some sort of research project on how easily > >> we're trolled? lol > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > newly created, I wonder which part is the research? The groups > reaction, or the declawing itself? How weird. I might look a little further into this when I can find the time. The North Carolina Research and Education Network is a high performance video and internet network operated by MCNC to provide support and services to the education and research community in North Carolina, including universities, research institutions, and medical schools "Wendy" <wendy@nospam.com> wrote in message news:8NCdnaLrjtnXQVqiRVn- > The North Carolina Research and Education Network is a high performance > video and internet network operated by MCNC to provide support and services > to the education and research community in North Carolina, including > universities, research institutions, and medical schools And one of their employees is a jerk? "Wendy" <wendy@nospam.com> wrote in message news:8NCdnaLrjtnXQVqiRVn- > The North Carolina Research and Education Network is a high performance > video and internet network operated by MCNC to provide support and services > to the education and research community in North Carolina, including > universities, research institutions, and medical schools And one of their employees is a jerk? employee or someone at one of the universities, research institutions or medical schools. But yea, a jerk probably as opposed to research. >LOL No. A little further north. > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >newly created, I wonder which part is the research? The groups >reaction, or the declawing itself? NCREN is an internet and networking service provider for a number of universities in North Carolina. See http://www.ncren.net. > > >> In news:cb3f1ff2.0311251300.17cf0699@posting.google.com, > > >> He Who Walks with Knuckles Dragging <cropwalk2004@hotmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > My god I hope not. Are you here in NC too? Do you "eat out" together often? Cropwalkus.....walkin' tall and makin' nasty little netcops crawl In news:cb3f1ff2.0312081420.4869769a@posting.google.com, He Who Walks But Now We Wonder How He Manages with the Brain Damage He Apparenly Has<cropwalk2004@hotmail.com> composed with style: >>>>> In news:cb3f1ff2.0311251300.17cf0699@posting.google.com, >>>>> He Who Walks with Knuckles Dragging <cropwalk2004@hotmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Cropwalkus.....walkin' tall and makin' nasty little netcops crawl WTF are you talking about, moron? No netcops here, crapwalk. If you are mistaking the fact that I read your publicly available headers to find out where your loser post came from, that isn't netcopping and you should go back to Usenet 101. > WTF are you talking about, moron? No netcops here, crapwalk. If you > are mistaking the fact that I read your publicly available headers to > find out where your loser post came from, that isn't netcopping and > you should go back to Usenet 101. He's just pissed because all he got was that one little mention from us. We should CARE enough to netcop the little dweeb, you see. *S* > > WTF are you talking about, moron? No netcops here, crapwalk. If > you [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > *S* spank, spank, spank, spank, spank, spank!!!!!! CW2 > In news:cb3f1ff2.0312081420.4869769a@posting.google.com, > He Who Walks But Now We Wonder How He Manages with the Brain Damage He [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > find out where your loser post came from, that isn't netcopping and > you should go back to Usenet 101. Oh I'm sorry.....you're right. What you are doing is not netcopping, but netstalking. And you can go to jail for that in case you aren't knowin' it. Now back off bitch! CW2004 >> In news:cb3f1ff2.0312081420.4869769a@posting.google.com, >> He Who Walks But Now We Wonder How He Manages with the Brain Damage [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > CW2004 rotflmao! You have made my day with this! oh sh.t my sides hurt!!! I better go enjoy New Years Eve if this is my last one as a free woman lmao  SignatureSoon to be jailbird Cheryl who better back off! >rotflmao! You have made my day with this! oh sh.t my sides hurt!!! I >better go enjoy New Years Eve if this is my last one as a free woman lmao You shouldn't laugh, Cheryl. You'll probably get some spammer or music downloader for a cellmate. Sherry > > In news:cb3f1ff2.0312081420.4869769a@posting.google.com, > > He Who Walks But Now We Wonder How He Manages with the Brain Damage He [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > CW2004 Well, I had no intentions of doing so, but now I think I need to forward this and all the other posts to his workplace supervisor. Had this idiot just moved on I wouldn't bother, but now? :) Anybody who can find the original post, please mail it to me, (rosefan@email.com) or give me a hint as to when it was posted. I cannot be bothered to Google this jackass but he clearly wants to be netcopped, so why not? He's probably trolling the newsgroups on company time. P.S.--the hotmail address isn't much of a disguise, dickweed. > > "Cheryl" <jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message > news:<3fd4feae$0$14954$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>... [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > original post, please mail it to me, (rosefan@email.com) or give me a > hint as to when it was posted. Mary....yet another sick little netcop/netstalker wannabe. Are you anything like mary the cow (excessive udders)? Be a good little cow and get back into the barn biatch. CW2004 > I cannot be bothered to Google this > jackass but he clearly wants to be netcopped, so why not? He's > probably trolling the newsgroups on company time. > > P.S.--the hotmail address isn't much of a disguise, dickweed. Everyone, Just be happy that the cat isn't in a shelter waiting to find a home, or on the street. Be happy the cat has a home. It's one less cat everyone has to worry about being hit by a car, or even euthanized. Deal with it. > Just be happy that the cat isn't in a shelter waiting to find a > home, or on the street. Be happy the cat has a home. It's one less > cat everyone has to worry about being hit by a car, or even > euthanized. Deal with it. Never. It is attitudes like yours that will make it harder to have the mutilating procedure banned. Read some of the archives. Diversion and training work. Cheryl, I'm not indicating I agree with the declawing procedure. I'm HAPPY that the cat cannot be counted as another statistic in an already over crowed shelter, waiting to be adopted in a city or town. I'm glad the cat has a home, not a cage. > > Just be happy that the cat isn't in a shelter waiting to find a > > home, or on the street. Be happy the cat has a home. It's one less [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the mutilating procedure banned. Read some of the archives. > Diversion and training work. In the meantime, if you don't have any patience to train the cat, go ahead and let it die on the streets and in a shelter. That's way better than mutilating the cat. > "Cheryl" <jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com> wrote in message >> Diversion and training work. > > In the meantime, if you don't have any patience to train the cat, go > ahead and let it die on the streets and in a shelter. That's way > better than mutilating the cat. This is an example of ignorance. Thanks for playing. ray Ben ray2003092003@yahoo.com drools >.. go ahead and let it die on the >streets and in a shelter. That's way >better than mutilating the cat. Ray...stop showing us you have your head up your a**. > > > Just be happy that the cat isn't in a shelter waiting to find a > > > home, or on the street. Be happy the cat has a home. It's one less [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > ahead and let it die on the streets and in a shelter. That's way > better than mutilating the cat. Oh, please. You must really think a lot of yourself if you think your particular decision not to adopt a cat means the cat is going to "die on the streets." There are far kinder people than you everywhere. > Everyone, > > Just be happy that the cat isn't in a shelter waiting to find a home, or on > the street. Be happy the cat has a home. It's one less cat everyone has to > worry about being hit by a car, or even euthanized. Deal with it. Wow, what an enlightened post. Let's wait and see what this kind owner does if/when his cat starts peeing inappropriately, or develops some kind of illness that requires more than $100 worth of medical treatment. I'd almost bet money kitty's a goner. >Message-id: <vsarmp9a80mb54@corp.supernews.com> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >kind of illness that requires more than $100 worth of medical treatment. >I'd almost bet money kitty's a goner. Or just wait until (surprise!) new owner learns that not only do cats scratch, they bite, they poop, they pee, and they shed all over the place. Will kitty then be de-toothed, and de-furred? Is it *still* better to be detoothed, defurred and declawed than spend time in a cage at a shelter? Sherry >>Message-id: <vsarmp9a80mb54@corp.supernews.com> >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Sherry Well, *yes*!! At least they have a home! Karen, Do you honestly believe that every single cat that is declawed starts peeing inappropriately, or develops some kind of illness that requires more than $100 worth of medical treatment? It's rash to think that if one can afford to have the declawing procedure completed on a cat, that one can't afford to purchase $100.00 worth of medical treatment for the cat. Moreover, I am presuming that since the cat has been in the ownership of the original poster for six and a half years, the cat and owner have adapted as best they can and the owner will not abandon the animal. Your post indicates that you have no apprehension for the current situation and want to live in the past tense. When and if the cat ends up being given away, at a shelter or abandoned I will offer an apology stating that I am wrong. However, until then, be content that the cat is being cared for by a seemingly everyday person that wants to care for the cat. I can't do anything to give the cat its claws back, nor can you. > Karen, > > Do you honestly believe that every single cat that is declawed starts peeing > inappropriately, or develops some kind of illness that requires more than > $100 worth of medical treatment? Iso, it doesn't matter. Cats should not be mutilated for our convenience. They CAN be trained. Anyone without the patience to go so needs to get some stuffed animals and leave the live ones to others who are more compassionate and SANE. Incidentally, there are some things worse than death. I think I'd rather die than live without, say, my thumbs. Or my eyes. Mary, I quote you "Iso, it doesn't matter. Cats should not be mutilated for our convenience. They CAN be trained. Anyone without the patience to go so needs to get some stuffed animals and leave the live ones to others who are more compassionate and SANE. Incidentally, there are some things worse than death. I think I'd rather die than live without, say, my thumbs. Or my eyes." If you had read the original thread, and how this particular post got to where it is, then you would see how late in the discussion you are. I NEVER ADVOCATED THE MUTILATING/DECLAWING of a cat. I NEVER INDICATED A CAT COULDN' T BE TRAINED. Moreover, I am in COMPLETE AGREANCE with you regarding people without patience. If you had read any of the previous posts, you would see that nearly everyone believes that the vast majority of cats that become declawed ALWAYS end up in a shelter because of medical or behavioral problems. True or false, that remains to be seen. My point is that for as many declaw procedures that apparently happen, there seem to be a profusion of cats that adapt as best they can and go on to live the remainder of their lives. THAT'S IT! YES, CATS THAT ARE DECLAWED EXIBIT MEDICAL AND BEHAVIORAL PROBLEMS, but not all cats that are dumped, surrendered or otherwise to a shelter or humane society are declawed. I DISAGREE WITH DECLAWING! Nonetheless, it's foolish to think that all cats, which are declawed, aren't taken care for later in life and always exhibit the same behavioral and medical problems. That was my only point. Iso nospam@nospamhotmail.com posts >...CATS THAT ARE DECLAWED >EXIBIT MEDICAL AND >BEHAVIORAL PROBLEMS... 1) No matter how many times you (and anyone else) posts a particular thought (or your idea of the only ideology that's is right, true, and correct, be dammed), doesn't make it so. 2) Since you are so intent on repeating the above - like a mantra..a chant..a right of passage, please do provide legitimate statistics backing up your utterances. 3) Cats that are declawed don't necessarily exhibit any behavior problems at all. Some do, some don't. The same goes for cats who are going from home to home. The same goes for cats who are left in the care of others while primary caretaker goes away for a given amount of time. The same goes for cats who are not handled correctly (for example, my neighbor has two cats. She's a forceful kind of person who scoops up the cats, pets the cats by applying pressure to the cat's head and torso while moving her hand back and forth. I've notice that her cats scurry away from her as she's trying to scoop them up.) And so on. >From: luvskats00@aol.com (Luvskats00) >3) Cats that are declawed don't necessarily exhibit any behavior problems at >all. Some do, some don't. Why take a chance with a beloved pet that he will be one of those that has a problem? Isn't his health and well-being more important? "Among 218 cats relinquished to a shelter, more (52.4%) declawed cats than non-declawed cats (29.1%) were reported by owners to have inappropriate elimination problems." Source: World Small Animal Veterinary Association - 2001 The incidence of behavior problems following onychectomy in cats; two months to five years (median 11.5 months) after surgery: "(33%) developed at least one behavior problem. "(17.9%) had an increase in biting habits or intensity." "(15.4%) would not use the litter box" Source: World Small Animal Veterinary Association - 2001 "Cats use their claws as a means of communication, much like we use our voices. A declawed cat is much like a person without a larynx. What a lot of people don't realize is that kittens go through a rambunctious stage where they are trying out their claws so will often go for furniture and drapes. What some people don't realize is that just like children going through the terrible two's, kittens will also outgrow this behavior and can be trained to a scratching post. But often they will have the kitten declawed to try to pre-empt any scratching behaviors. "Comparing declawing to us having the ends of our fingers amputated is not actually completely accurate. The claw is harder to remove than the tip of our fingers because we don't retract our fingertips. Our fingertip is not set into the joint below in a complex way like a cat's claw is. Cutting out pieces of an animal's body for convenience is just wrong from all aspects. Declawing is inhumane and painful to these animals. Animals are live sentient beings, not objects. A couch does not feel pain and will not notice the damage done to it. A cat surely will. "Cats have retractable nails, also known as "claws". Unlike most mammals who walk on the soles of the paws or feet, cats are digitigrade, which means they walk on their toes. Their back, shoulder and leg joints, muscles, tendons, ligaments and nerves are naturally designed to support and distribute the cat's weight across its toes as it walks, runs and climbs. A cat's claws are used for balance, for exercising, and for stretching the muscles in their legs, back, shoulders, and paws. They stretch these muscles by digging their claws into a surface and pulling back against their own clawhold - similar to isometric exercising for humans. This is the only way a cat can exercise, stretch and tone the muscles of its back and shoulders. The toes cause the foot to meet the ground at a precise angle to keep the leg, shoulder and back muscles and joints in proper alignment. Removal of the last digits of the toes causes the foot to meet the ground at an unnatural angle that can cause back pain similar to that in humans caused by wearing improper shoes. " "Contrary to most people's idea of declawing, surgery involves severing not just the claws, but whole phalanges (up to the joint), including bone, ligaments, and tendons! Complications of this amputation can be excruciating pain, damage to the radial nerve, hemorrhage, bone chips that prevent healing, painful regrowth of deformed claw inside of the paw, and chronic back and joint pain as shoulder, leg and back muscles weaken. Many cats also suffer a loss of balance since they can no longer achieve a secure foothold on their stumps. " "Some cats are so shocked by declawing that their personalities change. In some cases, when declawed cats use the litterbox after surgery, their feet are so tender they associate their new pain with the box...permanently. Others that can no longer mark with their claws, they mark with urine instead. Many declawed cats become so traumatized by this painful mutilation that they end up spending their maladjusted lives perched on top of doors and refrigerators, out of reach of real and imaginary predators against whom they no longer have any adequate defense. A cat relies on its claws as its primary means of defense. Removing the claws makes a cat feel defenseless and it can either become very defensive and resort to biting, or withdrawn and paranoid. They not only lose their grip, but also their grip on reality, seeming unable to concentrate on much beyond the loss of their claws, their vulnerability and confusion as to what has happened to them. " Yes, there are many things that can be done. First off, always play with the cat with toys, not your fingers. You can get your cat a tall sturdy scratching post with sisal rope. I also have cardboard scratching pads too as some cats are horizontal scratchers. You can clip the claws blunt. I use a cat scissors made by Four Paws and it works very well. I find the best time to trim claws is when the cat is sleepy, that way he is less likely to protest. The first time you trim the claws, you may want to have your vet or vet tech show you how. To trim a cat's claws, place her or him on a table or on your lap, and facing away from you. Lift one of the legs so that the lower part of the leg rests in your upturned fingers. Holding the leg securely but non-threateningly between the heel of your thumb and the tips of your middle, ring, and little fingers, grasp the paw between your thumb and forefinger. Press down gently on top of the paw with your thumb, spreading the toes and extending the claws. Check each claw individually. Do not trim blunt or rounded claws. If the nail is honed to a talon-like point, clip it. Be careful to clip the hooked part of the claw only. Avoid cutting into the pink tissue visible inside the nail. Dr. Nicholas Dodman, Professor of Behavioral Pharmacology and Director of the Behavior Clinic at Tufts University School of Veterinary Medicine and internationally known specialist in domestic animal behavioral research, explains declawing: "The inhumanity of the procedure is clearly demonstrated by the nature of cats' recovery from anesthesia following the surgery. Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in cats bouncing off the walls of the recovery cage because of excruciating pain. Cats that are more stoic huddle in the corner of the recovery cage, immobilized in a state of helplessness, presumably by overwhelming pain. Declawing fits the dictionary definition of mutilation to a tee. Words such as deform, disfigure, disjoint, and dismember all apply to this surgery. Partial digital amputation is so horrible that it has been employed for torture of prisoners of war, and in veterinary medicine, the clinical procedure serves as model of severe pain for testing the efficacy of analgesic drugs. Even though analgesic drugs can be used postoperatively, they rarely are, and their effects are incomplete and transient anyway, so sooner or later the pain will emerge." "Declawing, or onychectomy, is an amputation of the toe at the last joint. This removes the claw and the bone from which it originates. On a human hand this would be an amputation at the knuckle just above the nail. It is not just removal of the claw as many people think." Matthew J. Ehrenberg, DVM "It is serious surgery. Your cat's claw is not a toenail. It is actually closely adhered to the bone. So closely adhered that to remove the claw, the last bone of your the cat's claw has to be removed. Declawing is actually an amputation of the last joint of your cat's "toes". When you envision that, it becomes clear why declawing is not a humane act. It is a painful surgery, with a painful recovery period." Dr. Christianne Schelling, DVM "The amputation of the nail is accomplished with a guillotine nail cutter, which cuts across the first joint of the toe" Dr. Paul Rowan, DVM "Declawing (onchyectomy) is a surgical procedure that amputates the 3rd phalanx bone and claw of all ten front foot toes of a cat. This is comparable to the amputation of the last bone of each finger in the human hand." Dr. Jennifer Kissinger, DVM "The feline digit, just like the human digit (finger), possesses three phalanxes. When a cat is declawed it is the third or last phalanx, that is completely removed or amputated." Murphy Animal Hospital, Tampa, Florida "Declawing, or onychectomy, is the amputation of the claw and last bone (third phalanx) of the cat's toes at the first joint on the front feet. It's the equivalent of removing the last bone of all your fingers." Dr. Alice Crook, Head, Animal Welfare Unit at Atlantic Veterinary College, University of Prince Edward Island. "Declawing is the surgical amputation under general anesthesia of the last part of the toe - comparable to the removal of your fingertip at the first joint." Veterinary Information Network, Inc "The most common surgical procedure, onychectomy, or "declawing", is amputation of the claw and the end toe bone joint." The Cat Fanciers' Association "Declawing a cat involves general anesthesia and amputation of the last joint of each toe, including the bones, not just the nail." Doctors Who's Who, Inc. J Am Vet Med Assoc 1998 Aug 1;213(3):370-3412 Comparison of effects of elective tenectomy or onychectomy in cats. Jankowski AJ, Brown DC, Duval J, Gregor TP, Strine LE, Ksiazek LM, Ott AH Department of Clinical Studies, Veterinary Teaching Hospital, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia 19104, USA. CLINICAL IMPLICATIONS: Owners should be aware of the high complication rate for both procedures. Vet Surg 1994 Jul-Aug;23(4):274-80 Feline onychectomy at a teaching institution: a retrospective study of 163 cases. Tobias KS Department of Veterinary Clinical Sciences, Washington State University College of Veterinary Medicine, Pullman 99164-6610. One hundred sixty-three cats underwent onychectomy from January 1985 to November 1992. Onychectomy was performed with guillotine-type nail shears (62%), surgical blade (24.5%), or both (8.6%), and wound closure consisted of bandages alone (61.3%), bandages after suture closure (26.4%), or tissue adhesive application (9.2%). The duration of surgery was significantly longer when onychectomy was performed with a blade or when suture closure was used instead of bandages alone (P < .05). Fifty percent of the cats had one or more complications immediately after surgery. Early postoperative complications included pain (38.1%), hemorrhage (31.9%), lameness (26.9%), swelling (6.3%), or non-weight-bearing (5.6%), and were observed more frequently after blade onychectomy (P < .001). Follow-up was available in 121 cats; 19.8% developed complications after release. Late postoperative complications included infection (11.6%), regrowth (7.4%), P2 protrusion (1.7%), palmagrade stance (1.7%), and prolonged, intermittent lameness (0.8%). Late postoperative complications were observed more frequently after shears onychectomy (P = .018). Use of tissue adhesive was associated with more postoperative lameness (P < .02) and, when used after shears onychectomy, with more infections (P = .049). Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm darnit7@aol.com posts >Why take a chance with a beloved >pet that he will be one of those that >has a problem? Isn't his health >and well-being more important? I live in the real world. Apparently, you don't. I suggest that you go door-to-door in a representative sample of a couple of geographical areas and set up a research model. Some cat caretakers do love their cats and have different thought processes than you have. Did you know people have different ideas from one another? I've posted 4-5-6-7-or more times that I don't advocate declawing as a routine practice..I do advocate it as a last chance process, preferring it over having the caretaker return the pet. Ideally, everyone would have a cat, never declaw and live in Shangri-La..Realistically, cats who have been declawed (or would've been returned to the shelter) are just fine. I've seen declaw surgeries and would love to outlaw the practice - make it illegal. Maybe, someday it will be illegal...Then we could see if there is an increased number of cats who were surrendered. Bottom line.1) If given a choice, I'd prefer that the cat NOT be declawed. 2) If the cat is to be declawed, it should be legally required that the owner watch a video of the surgery and be presented with the statistics. Counselling should also include a full range of other solutions. 3) It is my belief that the majority of cats - not all of them - a larger portion of them (than not) will come through in a satisfactory manner and live a happy life. 4) Would I lobby to make this practice illegal in the US? Yes..but as of now, it is not and my experience does lead me to the belief that cats who are declawed and retained in the home are fine/happier than the cats NOT declawed and returned to shelters, awaiting another adoption. These cats may wait many months..years or be euthenized. That is not acceptable. > darnit7@aol.com posts > I live in the real world. Apparently, you don't. I suggest that you go > door-to-door in a representative sample of a couple of geographical areas and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the caretaker return the pet. Ideally, everyone would have a cat, never declaw > and live in Shangri-La.. Bullshit. In your "real world' you have no backbone, and no conscience. In your "real world" amputation is an alternative to taking the effort to train a cat. In your "real world" the furniture is more important that a living thing. F*ck you, miserable *sshole. [Not the best form, but it sure did feel good to say.] :-) >From: "Mary" rosefan@email.com >> darnit7@aol.com posts > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >[Not the best form, but it sure did feel good to say.] :-) I thought the form was most excellent. Very well said, Mary! Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >>Bullshit. In your "real world' you have no backbone, and no >>conscience. In your "real world" amputation is an alternative to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Lauren I also thought Mary's form most excellent and the post an overall work of art. Sherry >See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe >Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html >http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html >Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >>Bullshit. In your "real world' you have no backbone, and no > >>conscience. In your "real world" amputation is an alternative to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I also thought Mary's form most excellent and the post an overall work of art. Why ... *blush* thank you! *deep bow* :-) "Mary" rosefan@email.com pulls down her pants and sez >F*ck you, miserable *sshole. You're confused and came into the wrong chatroom. Try again. > "Mary" rosefan@email.com > pulls down her pants and sez > >> F*ck you, miserable *sshole. > > You're confused and came into the wrong chatroom. Try again. Chatroom? lol >> "Mary" rosefan@email.com >> pulls down her pants and sez [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Chatroom? lol Only an AOL'er would call a Usenet group a chatroom! > "Mary" rosefan@email.com > pulls down her pants and sez > > >F*ck you, miserable *sshole. > > You're confused and came into the wrong chatroom. Try again. So, like, which "chat room" am I in, you miserable a.shole? :-) "Mary" rosefan@email.com picks her nose and writes >F*ck you, miserable *sshole. luvskats responds >You're confused and came into the >wrong chatroom. Try again. rosefan >So, like, which "chat room" am I in, you miserable a.shole? :-) You assumed that you were in the room you reguarly visit..the sexual deviants room and mistakenly posted the same text you usually do. However, this is the re.pets.cat.health+behavior newsgroup. Your apology is accepted. > "Mary" rosefan@email.com > picks her nose and writes [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > You assumed that you were in the room you reguarly visit..the sexual deviants > room and mistakenly posted the same text you usually do. Oh, cool, a pervert lame! However, this is the > re.pets.cat.health+behavior newsgroup. Your apology is accepted. You're sorrrrrrrrry ..... Soooooooooooooo sorrrrrrrrrry ...... (Apologies to the late Patsy Cline.) Luvskats00, You quoted me "CATS THAT ARE DECLAWED >EXIBIT MEDICAL AND >BEHAVIORAL PROBLEMS..." I should have put the adjective "some" at the beginning of my statement. I apologize, you are correct. Not every cat that is declawed exhibits medical and behavioral problems. > Mary, > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > taken care for later in life and always exhibit the same behavioral and > medical problems. That was my only point. If you say so. I remain convinced that the quality of life for these cats is diminished from watching my own declawed and clawed cats in daily life for years, and from hearing about the experience of others. Moreover, you can say that you do not support it over and over again, but by saying that "it isn't as bad as we make it out" you are portraying it as less than the tragic mutilation that it is. You are not going to win this one here. Try going over to a dog group and suggesting that having their toes chopped would not be as bad as some might think, and see where that gets you. I have the feeling you are simply trying to ease some guilt here over declawing your own cats. I did it out of ignorance, and am willing to admit that it was a really terrible thing to do to any living creature. Try it, you might feel better. Mary, If you say so. I remain convinced that the quality of life for these cats is diminished from watching my own declawed and clawed cats in daily life for years, and from hearing about the experience of others. Moreover, you can say that you do not support it over and over again, but by saying that "it isn't as bad as we make it out" you are portraying it as less than the tragic mutilation that it is. You are not going to win this one here. Try going over to a dog group and suggesting that having their toes chopped would not be as bad as some might think, and see where that gets you. I have the feeling you are simply trying to ease some guilt here over declawing your own cats. I did it out of ignorance, and am willing to admit that it was a really terrible thing to do to any living creature. Try it, you might feel better. Your uneducated presumption about me couldn't be more far from the truth. I don't have declawed cats. I don't declaw cats and I never would declaw a cat. I dont have any guilt, because I haent done anything wrong.You need to back track a few more posts or threads. What am I trying to win? I am not petitioning or advocating declawing. I read your original thread, and I agree with you 100%. Get a grip! > Mary, > > Your uneducated presumption about me couldn't be more far from the truth. I > don't have declawed cats. My mistake. I thought you had declawed cats. As for the rest, well ... my comments stand. > Karen, > > Do you honestly believe that every single cat that is declawed starts peeing > inappropriately, or develops some kind of illness that requires more than > $100 worth of medical treatment? I can think of a number of cats at our shelter that were front declawed, given up for inappropriate elimination, and ended up euthanized for it (the booking showed the owner made sincere attempts to solve the problem yet it continued, or the cat continued with the problem in foster care or was adopted out and returned for it). I can only think of ONE cat that was surrended for litterbox problems, was front declawed, and ended up having crystals in her urine. I can think of several more who are front declawed and given up for litterbox problems and are still in-shelter (Oscar, the sweetest, fattest orange tabby... and my four-month foster Lucy, who actually got a home and so far has had no recurrences). It IS getting to the point that I'm VERY tempted to start a log of litterbox issue animals that are front declawed, take them to the executive director, and see about creating a policy of non-adoption of fully clawed cats to people who intend to declaw. Currently, we just won't adopt a fully clawed cat to someone who wants to four-paw declaw. This may sound rude, or uninformed, or whatever other adjectives you'd like to add, Iso, but since you're a doctor... Imagine, if you can, parents bringing in their children to have their fingers amputated at the first knuckle, "because she put a run in my stocking when she grabbed at my leg for attention," or "he was playing on the floors we just had refinished and now they're all scratched!" Ridiculous, yes? As childish and stupid as someone giving up their cat because she redecorated and the cat no longer matches the furniture... but our shelter has seen that excuse, and I would bet that other shelters have, as well. > It's rash to think that if one can afford > to have the declawing procedure completed on a cat, that one can't afford to > purchase $100.00 worth of medical treatment for the cat. My sister is a vet assistant. People have called to schedule declawings, and they REFUSE to spay or neuter. For those people, it's completely a matter of convenience and has nothing to do with the animal's health or well-being. I certainly don't mean to jump on the Iso-bashing bandwagon that seems to have sprung up here, but I don't know what experience you have with animals, or in a shelter environment, which is generally where most of us have developed this fanatical anti-declawing stance. > Karen, > > Do you honestly believe that every single cat that is declawed starts peeing > inappropriately, or develops some kind of illness that requires more than > $100 worth of medical treatment? I can think of a number of cats at our shelter that were front declawed, given up for inappropriate elimination, and ended up euthanized for it (the booking showed the owner made sincere attempts to solve the problem yet it continued, or the cat continued with the problem in foster care or was adopted out and returned for it). I can only think of ONE cat that was surrended for litterbox problems, was front declawed, and ended up having crystals in her urine. I can think of several more who are front declawed and given up for litterbox problems and are still in-shelter (Oscar, the sweetest, fattest orange tabby... and my four-month foster Lucy, who actually got a home and so far has had no recurrences). It IS getting to the point that I'm VERY tempted to start a log of litterbox issue animals that are front declawed, take them to the executive director, and see about creating a policy of non-adoption of fully clawed cats to people who intend to declaw. Currently, we just won't adopt a fully clawed cat to someone who wants to four-paw declaw. This may sound rude, or uninformed, or whatever other adjectives you'd like to add, Iso, but since you're a doctor... Imagine, if you can, parents bringing in their children to have their fingers amputated at the first knuckle, "because she put a run in my stocking when she grabbed at my leg for attention," or "he was playing on the floors we just had refinished and now they're all scratched!" Ridiculous, yes? As childish and stupid as someone giving up their cat because she redecorated and the cat no longer matches the furniture... but our shelter has seen that excuse, and I would bet that other shelters have, as well. > It's rash to think that if one can afford > to have the declawing procedure completed on a cat, that one can't afford to > purchase $100.00 worth of medical treatment for the cat. My sister is a vet assistant. People have called to schedule declawings, and they REFUSE to spay or neuter. For those people, it's completely a matter of convenience and has nothing to do with the animal's health or well-being. I certainly don't mean to jump on the Iso-bashing bandwagon that seems to have sprung up here, but I don't know what experience you have with animals, or in a shelter environment, which is generally where most of us have developed this fanatical anti-declawing stance. Do you encounter many people who come to adopt a cat and have already made up their mind to declaw before adopting? Does the shelter give them information on the methods to "train" the cat to use acceptable locations to scratch? I think the shelters could stop some of the declawing going on if they would give their adoptive "parents" some good information. Something on paper they could take home and read over if they encounter problems. We were at PetSmart the other night and met a family who had just adopted a large male cat. They were shopping for some rinky dink scratching post. I probably embarassed the heck out of the dh but I stopped and told them that the post probably wouldn't work as the cat was larger than the post and proceeded to tell them about the stuff available to discourage scratching and pointed them over to the posts that might actually work for this animal. The shelter people apparently hadn't discussed this with them. W <troublemaker talk deleted> > So, for all you anti-declawers I would tell you to go get a life. You would have done much better by adopting the intact cat out to a friend with patience or a no-kill shelter. In any case, nice bit of trolling. Signature"Its the bugs that keep it running." -Joe Canuck > The cat was mom's and she died after a long illness. The cat had > clawed up a lot of furniture in the house and no one else wanted the > cat. The cat also had a skin condition which now necessitates a > depomedrol shot each month. Too bad you didn't try to rehome the cat into a safe home where it wouldn't have to be declawed, and could be respected for the whole cat that it was. :( > I took the cat on condition that it would be declawed so it wouldn't > tear my stuff up. The others involved didn't really want that to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > So, for all you anti-declawers I would tell you to go get a life. Talk to us when the cat develops arthritis, or has a regrowth. Tell us then how "well" the cat is doing. -L. k3_e81@yahoo.com writes >Too bad you didn't try to rehome >the cat into a safe home where it >wouldn't have to be declawed, and >could be respected for the whole >cat that it was. There's is a line between idealism and reality. If there were an abundance of homes (and, therefore, a tiny number of cats in shelters - as opposed to millions of them) it would be realistic to try to look for a loving home where declawing would not take place. There's not always such a place. Personally, I had paid a monthly fee to foster homes because I could not find permanent homes for some of the cats rescued. Be aware that the deed is done and the cat will be able to have a very normal existence. k3_e81@yahoo.com writes >Too bad you didn't try to rehome >the cat into a safe home where it >wouldn't have to be declawed, and >could be respected for the whole >cat that it was. There's is a line between idealism and reality. If there were an abundance of homes (and, therefore, a tiny number of cats in shelters - as opposed to millions of them) it would be realistic to try to look for a loving home where declawing would not take place. There's not always such a place. Personally, I had paid a monthly fee to foster homes because I could not find permanent homes for some of the cats rescued. Be aware that the deed is done and the cat will be able to have a very normal existence. You're right the deed is done. I have heard of other cats apparently doing fine after a declaw. The problem is I've heard of declawed cats who have larger problems because of the declaw then the owner would have had if they hadn't done it. My niece adopted a declawed cat who had one toe that just wouldn't heal. Needless to say he refused to use a box and ended up doing his business all over the place. At that point it wasn't behavior it was a medical problem. It was probably why the cat was abandoned and was put up for adoption in the first place. The rugs got destroyed either way. Not to mention the pain the poor kitty suffered every time the toe split open. Like I said before, the problem I had with the poster is apparently no effort was made to adjust the scratching behavior before the kitty ended up declawed. Their are many things to try that are cheaper than the surgery to encourage appropriate scratching. I found with my Isabelle that it didn't take much time or effort to get her to leave my furnishings alone just a good cat tree/scratching post and some sticky tape. The total cost of not declawing was probably the same as the surgery but without any of the risks of surgery. I would encourage people to at least give it a try before throwing in the towel. Wendy "Wendy" wendy@nospam.com writes >.... I have heard of other cats >apparently doing >fine after a declaw. The problem is >I've heard of declawed cats who have >larger problems because of the >declaw then the owner would have had if they >hadn't done it. My niece adopted a >declawed cat who had one toe that >just wouldn't heal/// >...the problem I had with the poster >is apparently no >effort was made to adjust the >scratching behavior before the :>kitty ended up declawed. Evidently, you and I (and a very large group of people who are informed about the issue) support the no-declaw position and believe of the horrific cruelty of the procedure. However, there is another very large group of people who do not yet believe or are unaware of the steps constituting a declaw and that is is perceived/it is cruel and inhumane. Both groups are cat lovers and both groups do much to improve the lives of strays, cats waiting for adoption, and/or family pets. Unlike those who own show dogs or pedigreed pets where the breeds routinely promote/expect the ear cropping/tail bobbing. Logic would dictate the absurdity of this practice, ....you might think?!!!!! Those who believe declaw is not dangerous or cruel may not know that it involves the amputation of a body part. Some - many may truly believe (if they think about it) that only the nail is removed. Obviously, more education/promotion is recommended to get the word out. There are many people (who have good intentions) who post here with some unbelievable things. For example, a few days ago, someone wondered if it was cruel to "neuter" their 7 year old female cat. While the answer would seem to be obvious to a significant number of people - and perhaps viewed as a ridiculous question (the answer being...go ahead and spay your cat...prevent ovarian cancer...etc.), it's not obvious to us all. As far, the cat (described above) who went through a declaw and came out with a toe that would never heal. Was that a botched job to blame on the veterinarian? If so..that issue should be covered. But, with that issue aside, the behavior of a cat who is going/went through a specific procedure, sickness or circumstance and comes out the other side a changed cat...maybe more factors that the procedure/sickness/circumstance might be involved...a secondary cause - joined with the primary cause - might be to blame. > "Wendy" wendy@nospam.com > writes [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > groups do much to improve the lives of strays, cats waiting for adoption, > and/or family pets. I just want to say, again, that I am someone who has seen both side. I adopted a pregnant, semi-feral stray at six months old, and had her declawed because 1. She destroyed everything 2. I had no idea it was mutilation' 3. I was young and ignorant and had no idea I could train her. Once I saw her after the operation I felt like some kind of Nazi. She was in pain and her formerly beautiful little front feet just looked like dustmops. Never the brightest kitty (but I loved her just as she was!) she had always been easily frightened and aggressive, sometimes for no reason. This got worse after the declaw--she became a biter, and I mean to the bone. How did I get her to stop? I lightly smacked her, said "no" and isolated her in a time-out room. Eventually she stopped breaking the skin and would just bite me lightly and then lick me. She stopped covering her poo in the box after declawing and stopped being as playful, too. I did right by here, kept her safe and indoors and took good care of her. She lived to be 20. When I adopted my current two cats there was never any question about declawing. I would never do it again. Cats who feel helpless get mean and are easily frightened. I think declawing my first cat made her already mistrustful and fearful personality worse. It is one of the few things in my life that I truly regret. Just my 2 cents. > "Wendy" wendy@nospam.com > writes > >.... I have heard of other cats >apparently doing > >fine after a declaw. The problem is >I've heard of declawed cats who have > >larger problems because of the >declaw then the owner would have had if they > >hadn't done it. My niece adopted a >declawed cat who had one toe that >just > wouldn't heal/// > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Evidently, you and I (and a very large group of people who are informed about > the issue) support the no-declaw position and believe of the horrific cruelty > of the procedure. However, there is another very large group of people who do > not yet believe or are unaware of the steps constituting a declaw and that is > is perceived/it is cruel and inhumane. Both groups are cat lovers and both > groups do much to improve the lives of strays, cats waiting for adoption, > and/or family pets. I just want to say, again, that I am someone who has seen both side. I adopted a pregnant, semi-feral stray at six months old, and had her declawed because 1. She destroyed everything 2. I had no idea it was mutilation' 3. I was young and ignorant and had no idea I could train her. Once I saw her after the operation I felt like some kind of Nazi. She was in pain and her formerly beautiful little front feet just looked like dustmops. Never the brightest kitty (but I loved her just as she was!) she had always been easily frightened and aggressive, sometimes for no reason. This got worse after the declaw--she became a biter, and I mean to the bone. How did I get her to stop? I lightly smacked her, said "no" and isolated her in a time-out room. Eventually she stopped breaking the skin and would just bite me lightly and then lick me. She stopped covering her poo in the box after declawing and stopped being as playful, too. I did right by here, kept her safe and indoors and took good care of her. She lived to be 20. When I adopted my current two cats there was never any question about declawing. I would never do it again. Cats who feel helpless get mean and are easily frightened. I think declawing my first cat made her already mistrustful and fearful personality worse. It is one of the few things in my life that I truly regret. Just my 2 cents. I never really thought about declawing one way or the other until last year when we got new carpeting and Ralf went to town. We have always had scratching posts and he was really cooperative getting his nails clipped (a real surprise as he HATED being picked up and was an extremely "shy"cat). We tried covering the spots he scratched with something else and he just moved on to another spot. The dh threatened to take him to have him declawed and that's when I had to address the whole issue. I may have had it done but by then I was aware that it was an amputation and that gave me real pause. Additionally I was already aware of potential complications because of my nieces' cat. Unfortunately he died before we found a solution other than locking him in the laundry room at night as that's when he would do the damage. I'll wonder for the rest of my days if he found something toxic in there and that's what killed him. :o( Since then I have read a lot on the net and have had success with Isabelle. I just wish I had know with Ralf what I found out since. W "Wendy" wendy@nospam.com writes >.... I have heard of other cats >apparently doing >fine after a declaw. The problem is >I've heard of declawed cats who have >larger problems because of the >declaw then the owner would have had if they >hadn't done it. My niece adopted a >declawed cat who had one toe that >just wouldn't heal/// >...the problem I had with the poster >is apparently no >effort was made to adjust the >scratching behavior before the :>kitty ended up declawed. Evidently, you and I (and a very large group of people who are informed about the issue) support the no-declaw position and believe of the horrific cruelty of the procedure. However, there is another very large group of people who do not yet believe or are unaware of the steps constituting a declaw and that is is perceived/it is cruel and inhumane. Both groups are cat lovers and both groups do much to improve the lives of strays, cats waiting for adoption, and/or family pets. Unlike those who own show dogs or pedigreed pets where the breeds routinely promote/expect the ear cropping/tail bobbing. Logic would dictate the absurdity of this practice, ....you might think?!!!!! Those who believe declaw is not dangerous or cruel may not know that it involves the amputation of a body part. Some - many may truly believe (if they think about it) that only the nail is removed. Obviously, more education/promotion is recommended to get the word out. There are many people (who have good intentions) who post here with some unbelievable things. For example, a few days ago, someone wondered if it was cruel to "neuter" their 7 year old female cat. While the answer would seem to be obvious to a significant number of people - and perhaps viewed as a ridiculous question (the answer being...go ahead and spay your cat...prevent ovarian cancer...etc.), it's not obvious to us all. As far, the cat (described above) who went through a declaw and came out with a toe that would never heal. Was that a botched job to blame on the veterinarian? If so..that issue should be covered. But, with that issue aside, the behavior of a cat who is going/went through a specific procedure, sickness or circumstance and comes out the other side a changed cat...maybe more factors that the procedure/sickness/circumstance might be involved...a secondary cause - joined with the primary cause - might be to blame. I don't know if the paw problem was a botched declaw although it would appear so with no other info. My niece didn't know as the cat was adopted this way. She did tell me that she had seen similar problems when she worked for a vet. Not that the vet she worked for botched the job but rather people bringing cats into her vet with healing problems. Guess there's a vet in the area who doesn't know what he's doing. Shy of asking a vet for references from his declaw patients I don't know how one would avoid the less surgically skilled. wendy@nospam.com writes >Guess there's a vet in the >area who doesn't know what he's >doing. Shy of asking a vet for >references >from his declaw patients I don't >know how one would avoid the >less surgically skilled. If there is a suspicion that a certain vet or group of vets are peforming declaw surgeries improperly, there must be a way to investigate. I would suspect calling the local vet association for advice. >There's is a line between idealism and reality. If there were an abundance >of >homes (and, therefore, a tiny number of cats in shelters - as opposed to >millions of them) it would be realistic to try to look for a loving home >where >declawing would not take place. I just don't see the fine line. It's a question of mutilating a cat for owner convenience, or not. Declawing isn't going to help the overpopulation of shelters...that's a fraction, and besides, declawing doesn't guarantee a forever home. Plenty of declawed cats get returned to shelters because of peeing inappropriately and biting. Sherry Sherry, You have a point regarding "plenty of cats get returned to shelters because of peeing inappropriately and biting," but what about the others that aren't returned. As you probably already know, individuals don't concur with the idea that declawing is any more inappropriate than neutering/spaying a cat. Some people declaw as a last resort, others declaw because they don't know any better, or don't want to spend the time trying to train the cat to use a scratching post. Regardless of how malice the procedure may actually be, would you rather the cat be given to a shelter or the local humane society, with the intention to HOPE they can find the cat a home? I think this post (if it's not a troll) is the exception. The cat now has a home, not a cage in a shelter and a picture on a website with a description of age, temperament, and needs. Just be happy the cat has a home and is fed everyday. >From: "Iso" nospam@nospamhotmail.com >The cat now >has a home, For now at least. not a cage in a shelter and a picture on a website with a >description of age, temperament, and needs. Just be happy the cat has a home >and is fed everyday. So you're saying it's ok to have the ends of a cat's toes amputated so he can have a home and be fed everyday? How is it that in many countries where declawing is not done that cats have homes and are fed everyday? ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm As I have already indicated, I am not advocating the procedure. I am indicating that I am elated that the cat has a home, and is allegedly taken care of by the owner. It's not on the street and it's not waiting in cage at a shelter like the one you work in, or humane society to be adopted. Just because you have, "a lot" of declawed cats at your shelter doesn't indicate that this particular cat will end up in a shelter because of being declawed. There are a number of cats that adapt to the procedure and live a regular life. This may be the exception. >Sherry, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >with the idea that declawing is any more inappropriate than >neutering/spaying a cat. *Some* individuals. The uneducated or new pet owners. Some people declaw as a last resort, others declaw >because they don't know any better, or don't want to spend the time trying >to train the cat to use a scratching post. Regardless of how malice I so do not understand your use of the word "malice" in this sentence. the >procedure may actually be, would you rather the cat be given to a shelter or >the local humane society, with the intention to HOPE they can find the cat a >home? For the nth time. It does not have to be a choice, but yes, I would rather the cat go to a Humane Society than be mutilated--declaw does NOT guarantee a forever home. I think this post (if it's not a troll) is the exception. The cat now >has a home, not a cage in a shelter and a picture on a website with a >description of age, temperament, and needs. Just be happy the cat has a home >and is fed everyday. I would suggest to you that you watch a declaw and follow the cat through recovery. Honestly sometimes I think some people think declaw is just a permanent manicure. Sherry Sherry, You can change "some" to "vast majority" because I concur with you regarding the uneducated choice of declawing. It's almost too easy to make the decision, nor is anyone willing to try other methods before the procedure. Furthermore, malice means an unlawful act or cause harm without legal justification or excuse. Additionally, if the original thread is real, and not a troll. For the nth time, neither you nor I can give the cat back its claws. I'm sorry, you just can't. I too would have liked to see the cat keep its claws. However, in this particular situation it seems that the cat has adapted as best as can be expected, and it's seemingly in a home with an owner (uneducated and or unconcerned about the declawing procedure) who can support the needs of the cat. At this point in time, it does no good to you or I to dwell on what happened to the cat. If the post is real, all you and I can do is wish the owner and the cat the very best and hope this cat won't become another statistic in a shelter or humane society. Also, being that I am finishing my last part of my residency, I have seen far worse things than the declawing of a cat. The procedure itself isn't as horrible as everyone makes it out to be. It's the recovery time of the cat that makes it hard to swallow. There isn't anything more agonizing than seeing an animal in pain for no reason. >You can change "some" to "vast majority" because I concur with you regarding >the uneducated choice of declawing. Sorry, I don't recall exactly the sentence you're referring to and don't want to dig it up again. . It would help tremendously if you would post the text that you're replying to when you post. It's almost too easy to make the >decision, nor is anyone willing to try other methods before the procedure. Absolutely right. It's instant gratification. The quick fix. Solving the "problem" with the least amount of effort possible. Hack those cllaws off, and don't bother spending time training, or clipping, or covering furniture, or Soft Paws, or any of the other alternatives available. >Furthermore, malice means an unlawful act or cause harm without legal >justification or excuse. Yes, I know. But malice is a noun, which threw me in your use in that particular sentence. Which, again, I can't recite from memory and you haven't posted it for readers to refer back to. For the nth time, neither you nor I can give the cat back its >claws. I'm sorry, you just can't. Well, duh, I know that. That does not mean I have to condone the deed, just because it's already done. However, in this particular situation it seems that the cat has >adapted as best as can be expected, and it's seemingly in a home with an >owner (uneducated and or unconcerned about the declawing procedure) who can >support the needs of the cat. At this point in time, it does no good to you >or I to dwell on what happened to the cat. If the post is real, all you and >I can do is wish the owner and the cat the very best and hope this cat won't >become another statistic in a shelter or humane society. Of course I hope the cat is in a forever home. It's going to be a hell of a rough life if he isn't since he's already maimed to suit the needs of the present owner. (snipped irrelevent part) The procedure itself isn't as horrible as everyone >makes it out to be Sure. A quadruple bypass is a breeze, also. A walk in the park. Till the patient wakes up. . It's the recovery time of the cat that makes it hard to >swallow. There isn't anything more agonizing than seeing an animal in pain >for no reason. Amen. Sherry sriddles@aol.com writes >Of course I hope the cat is in a >forever home. It's going to be a >hell of a >rough life if he isn't since he's >already maimed to suit the needs >of the present owner. You have no idea if the cat will have a comfy life or a rough one. Thousands of cats have been declawed and live very pampered lives. >>Of course I hope the cat is in a >forever home. It's going to be a >hell of >a >>rough life if he isn't since he's >already maimed to suit the needs >of the >present owner. > >You have no idea if the cat will have a comfy life or a rough one. Neither do you, so it's a moot point, isn't it? Thousands >of cats have been declawed and live very pampered lives. And thousands have been dumped, or relinquished to shelters. Just like clawed cats. No guarantees. Sherry sriddles@aol.comkitty (Sherry ) wrote luvskats wrote >You have no idea if the cat will have a comfy life or a rough one. sriddles >>Neither do you, so it's a moot point, isn't it? I'm not the one who brought up that point. I was refuting that point. luvskats > Thousands of cats have been >declawed and live very pampered lives. sriddles >And thousands have been dumped, or relinquished to shelters. >Just like clawed cats. No guarantees. You can do this dance for the next century. Nothing is guaranteed. Read s-l-o-w-l-y and try to follow along...cats can be surrendered for any number of reasons. The specific situation of this thread is that an individual took in a cat and had that cat declawed. Not everybody is on the bandwagon that you're on despite your desperate and repeat attempt to try to dictate your views to anyone who would listen. Again..I'm not advocating declawing, but - from work/personal experience - I do not believe that the cat is ruined forever and can't live a perfectly happy life. We went over this already. Shall we begin to list the reasons where cats can't/won't live happy lives? Here's 5 1) Cat is ignored by caretaker. 2) Cat is disciplined by rolled up newspaper, yelled at, hit with open hand. 3) Cat doesn't get food & water on a regular basis. 4) Cat is allowed to get sick and not brought to vet for remedy. 5) Cat resides at the abode of sriddles@aol.com. (snip) The specific situation of this thread is that an individual took in >a >cat and had that cat declawed. Not everybody is on the bandwagon that you're >on >despite your desperate and repeat attempt to try to dictate your views to >anyone who would listen. Actually, I would guess the vast majority of this group shares the same views I do re: declaw, save a couple of people, including you. Again..I'm not advocating declawing, but - from >work/personal experience - I do not believe that the cat is ruined forever >and >can't live a perfectly happy life. You are advocating declaw. >Shall we begin to list the reasons where cats can't/won't live happy lives? >Here's 5 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >4) Cat is allowed to get sick and not brought to vet for remedy. >5) Cat resides at the abode of sriddles@aol.com. Sounds a bit like desperation flaming borne of a losing argument, NY Writer. Thanks for playing, but if lies and personal attacks are your best debate, maybe it's time to throw in the towel. Sherry sriddles@aol.com does a bit of final protesting before jumping off the bridge and posts >Sounds a bit like desperation >flaming borne of a losing >argument... Actually, you already did that. Apparently you are under the misguided impression that adding another ID to your reply will do something. Stop being so pathetic and act like someone who has a clue. >Actually, you already did that. Apparently you are under the misguided >impression that adding another ID to your reply will do something. Stop being >so pathetic and act like someone who has a clue. If you're referring to changing ID's for posting under a different name, that's your trick pony, not mine. I don't claim to be a usenet expert, but I *don't* have a clue what you're babbbling about. Sherry sriddles@aol.com drools >If you're referring to changing ID's >for posting under a different name, >that's >your trick pony, not mine. I don't >claim to be a usenet expert, but I >*don't* >have a clue what you're babbbling >about. 1) Just because you keep chanting about me posting under a different name (for fraud purposes or hiding behind another ID) doesn't make it so. I provided details how you or any numbskull like yourself - or any intelligent person - could check out the reason for the new ID. 2) You don't have a clue as to anything..anytime. That's why you post nonsense. |
Enable EMail Alerts
Start New Thread
Reply to this Message