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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / November 2003

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Isabelle is picking on Tiggy

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Wendy - 18 Nov 2003 13:33 GMT
I'll try to be brief but maybe a little background would be helpful. All
cats mentioned are inside cats and none are declawed.

Tiggy is 16 (8 lbs.- good weight for her. spayed). She has always had a male
companion that she got along with. As of last August we had 2 cats Tiggy and
Ralf (8 yrs. old, 15 lb., large not fat, long hair, altered). Early in
September we found 4 3-wk old kittens. We ended up bottle feeding them. This
caused no big problem as they were confined in a large plastic storage
container and didn't interact with the big guys. I was vigilant to keep them
separated until we were able to get the kittens tested for FIV and feline
leukemia. About a week after taking in the kittens the dh came home with
Isabel (2 yrs old, large and overweight 12 lb. long hair calico, spayed).
Tiggy and Ralf had always spent a lot of time in my bedroom. Tiggy's idea of
exercise was moving from the bed to the couch in the evening. Ralf had
always stayed in the bedroom as he was always a very shy cat. He came out
early in the morning for his breakfast and lovin' from the dh and might show
up in the evening briefly. This made it pretty easy to ease Isabel into the
house as she stayed in the living room during the day and also spent time in
my son's bedroom where the other two didn't usually go anyway. Isabel
settled in quickly, the other two didn't put up much of a fuss when they
finally spotted her and I thought all was going remarkably well. After a few
weeks they could all be in the same room with no hissing or fussing. As the
kittens got older we had to let them out to run around but confined them to
the kitchen at times of the day when the others wouldn't be likely to want
to pass through there. By the beginning of November the kittens were eating
regular food and we had adopted out one. The other three were going to
PetSmart on Saturdays to try to find good homes. Then Ralf got sick suddenly
and we had to put him to sleep (total kidney failure). The dh decided that
we would keep one of the kittens and the other two were adopted together the
next Saturday. Boots (male yet to be altered baby) gets along with both
Tiggy and Isabel. Tiggy doesn't mind him sleeping with her as long as he
doesn't get rowdy and start jumping on her. Isabel acts like his mother or
maybe big sister as she not only gives him baths but also does the rough and
tumble with him.

Now to the problem. As I posted before we had some eating challenges to deal
with. Right now Boots' food is in a box with an opening only large enough
for him to get through. Isabel eats in the laundry room (adjacent to the
kitchen) with the door closed (she scarfs it down all at once). Tiggy eats
in the kitchen in her usual spot. Tiggy doesn't eat all her food at once or
she'll barf it back up so she gets fed small quantities during the day
adding up to a specific amount she's allowed to keep her weight down. I
suspect the friction is over food. Isabel is a chow hound and is less than
pleased with the quantity of food she's getting. We are feeding her the
number of calories recommended for a cat her size and age. But everytime
anyone else is eating she shows up and would butt right in and eat their
food if permitted.

Isabel is bullying Tigger. She's a larger and much younger cat who I suspect
would like to rule the roost. Tiggy has always ruled the roost and isn't in
any hurry to give up her position in life. Isabel has started seeking out
Tiggy (anywhere in the house but the bedroom) and gets in her face, swats
etc. Tiggy is acting really stressed and has had a couple really bad days
with her arthritis this week. I think things would have been fine if Ralf
hadn't died and we adopted out all the kittens but without Ralf to back up
Tiggy the dynamic has really changed.

Any suggestions to get Isabel to leave Tiggy alone? I think Tiggy deserves
some peace and quiet in her later years but I don't want to upset Isabel
either.

At least Boots is sane. He just be-bops around having a good time. Ah! the
benefits of being a kitten.

Wendy
Laura R. - 23 Nov 2003 20:26 GMT
circa Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:33:14 -0500, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
Wendy (wendy@nospam.com) said,
> Any suggestions to get Isabel to leave Tiggy alone? I think Tiggy deserves
> some peace and quiet in her later years but I don't want to upset Isabel
> either.

When Isabel attacks Tiggy, pick her up and put her in a room by
herself for a while (five or ten minutes is plenty, I think).
Bathrooms are good. While it probably won't cure her jealousy/desire
for dominance/whatever, it may at least mitigate her acting upon it.
If she learns that attacking Tiggy only brings her "punishment", she
may stop. When she's in the same room with Tiggy but *doesn't* attack
her, lavish her with attention. She'll get the message.

Laura
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zuzu22@webtv.net - 23 Nov 2003 20:11 GMT
Laura wrote:

>When Isabel attacks Tiggy, pick her up
>and put her in a room by herself for a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>If she learns that attacking Tiggy only
>brings her "punishment", she may stop.

No, she won't. The above will effectively teach Isabel that Tiggy's
presence is directly responsible for her being punished. This in turn
will do nothing to help the relationship and may very well cause Isabel
to resent Tiggy even more, increase the incidence of aggression and
inhibit the possibility of the two developing a peaceful relationship.

The best thing to do when starting to work on the atual  physical
introduction is limit contact between the cats and supervise very
closely, never allowing an aggressive episode to happen. During *any*
negative expression on the resident's cat part it is important to NEVER
reprimand the cat or do anything negative. Instead immediately distract
the cat using something positive like a happy voice or the shake of a
bag of treats and then immediately follow that up with lavish praise.
This will teach the resident cat to associate the new cat's presence
with *good* things and the aggressive behavior will lessen and in most
cases stop altogether.

>When she's in the same room with Tiggy
>but *doesn't* attack her, lavish her with
>attention.

I agree with this part. :-)

Megan

                                   
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Laura R. - 23 Nov 2003 22:26 GMT
circa Sun, 23 Nov 2003 14:11:06 -0600 (CST), in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav, zuzu22@webtv.net (zuzu22@webtv.net) said,
> >When she's in the same room with Tiggy
> >but *doesn't* attack her, lavish her with
> >attention.
>
> I agree with this part. :-)

Well, at least I got *part* of it right. ;-)

Laura
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PawsForThought - 24 Nov 2003 16:58 GMT
>From: zuzu22@webtv.net

>The best thing to do when starting to work on the atual  physical
>introduction is limit contact between the cats and supervise very
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>with *good* things and the aggressive behavior will lessen and in most
>cases stop altogether.

On the other hand, doesn't it teach the aggressive cat that when he acts
aggressively towards the other cat that he gets rewarded with treats and/or
play?  I am having a problem with my cats.  I have a brother and sister who for
the most part get along great. They sleep together and play together. But at
times the brother will pick on the sister, biting her and acting very
aggressive.  She howls like crazy in response.  No blood is ever shed
thankfully.  So what do you think is the best response I can make when they are
fighting like that?  I've tried the distraction method but it only works
temporarily.

Lauren
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Cheryl - 24 Nov 2003 23:02 GMT
> On the other hand, doesn't it teach the aggressive cat that when he
> acts aggressively towards the other cat that he gets rewarded with
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> fighting like that?  I've tried the distraction method but it only
> works temporarily.

Ah, the age old question.  Today I came home and my house was like
"Fight Club".  For the most part my 3 get along ok but poor Shadow,
because of his docile nature, takes the brunt of some chases.
Starting in the last couple of days, Shamrock and Bonnie were more
aggressive than usual which ends up with everyone throwing punches,
including Shadow.  He's bopped 'em both on the head a few times and
while I'm glad to see him sticking up for himself, I wondered why all
the aggression lately?  Shamrock will walk up to either other cat and
just throw a punch seemingly for no reason!  Today it dawned on me.
The Feliway diffuser is empty.  I wonder if they get addicted to it,
or if all hell would break loose all the time if there was no such
thing?  I sprayed a few spots hoping it can wait until I can get to
the store for a refill.
Mary - 25 Nov 2003 00:43 GMT
>  Shamrock will walk up to either other cat and
> just throw a punch seemingly for no reason!  Today it dawned on me.
> The Feliway diffuser is empty.  I wonder if they get addicted to it,
> or if all hell would break loose all the time if there was no such
> thing?  I sprayed a few spots hoping it can wait until I can get to
> the store for a refill.

Feliway ... producing a new generation of junkie kitties! :)
Karen M. - 25 Nov 2003 03:59 GMT
>>On the other hand, doesn't it teach the aggressive cat that when he
>>acts aggressively towards the other cat that he gets rewarded with
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> thing?  I sprayed a few spots hoping it can wait until I can get to
> the store for a refill.

Cheryl, you're a drug dealer!! LOL!
Karen - 25 Nov 2003 04:09 GMT
>>> On the other hand, doesn't it teach the aggressive cat that when he
>>> acts aggressively towards the other cat that he gets rewarded with
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Cheryl, you're a drug dealer!! LOL!

That happens here too. Increased agression and the Feliway is usually almost
empty or empty. Wierd, but obviously effective.

Karen
Wendy - 25 Nov 2003 11:46 GMT
in article vs5jrqjk20ii9d@corp.supernews.com, Karen M. at
mskitty@NOSPAMeasystreet.com wrote on 11/24/03 9:59 PM:

> Cheryl wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Cheryl, you're a drug dealer!! LOL!

That happens here too. Increased agression and the Feliway is usually almost
empty or empty. Wierd, but obviously effective.

Karen

Wonder if the feliway is actually delaying the cats learning to deal with
one another. Left to their own devices (with the appropriate intervention),
cats will eventually establish an equilibriem.

Wendy
Cheryl - 26 Nov 2003 00:18 GMT
> Wonder if the feliway is actually delaying the cats learning to
> deal with one another. Left to their own devices (with the
> appropriate intervention), cats will eventually establish an
> equilibriem.

Seeing my cats behavior after the diffuser runs empty for a few days I
too wonder what it is doing to them.  This is twice now that it
completely ran dry and there was a few days before I got a
replacement.  Both with the same resulting behavior.
 
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