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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / August 2005Question About Doing a Side-Job (OT)
I've been asked by the guy who bought the store down the street to create and print up fliers (how the heck do you spell that?) for him to hand out and possibly to tuck into people's mailboxes or whatever. Seems he thought I'd do this for free. Uh, no. Paper and printer ink cost me money, not to mention my time. I made some notes about what he wants the sheet to say and told him I'd create a proof sheet for him to look at. These are just 8-1/2 x 11 paper. I discouraged him from using coloured paper (I don't know why, but that annoys me - what say you?) but to go with colour and black ink on white paper. So, for say, 500 fliers (flyers?!) plus design time, revision time, materials and printer ink what would you charge for a job like this? I am not a print shop! This guy is from Yemen and is just trying to get his new store off the ground. NOTE: The small market/convenience store has been there for 30 years. I've been shopping there for 9 years. He bought it from the owner who retired. They still sell fresh produce, have a breakfast and lunch buffet and make deli sandwiches with cold cuts, cheese, etc. all day even when the hot buffet is shut down. He recently started serving burgers and he's ordered a pizza oven because he lived in NYC before he came here and he loves pizza! He also plans to start selling gyros when he gets the other oven in. Lamb! I love it! So, what I should charge for helping him do his "marketing" ? I'm still thinking 500 sheets of paper, black and colour ink, plus my time designing and modifying the sheets as needed. No clue here! Jill  SignatureI used to have a handle on life...but it broke off. > I've been asked by the guy who bought the store down the street to create > and print up fliers (how the heck do you spell that?) for him to hand out [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Jill Based on what I pay to get fliers printed (modifications are included in the overall cost) I'd charge 1.25 per flier. If using glossy paper I'd charge 1.50. I currently pay .75 per page, but that's just for the printing. Of course, you can design it and bring it to a printers to have printed then charge less or charge the same and receive a higher profit minus the setup fee the printers will charge. > I've been asked by the guy who bought the store down the street to create > and print up fliers (how the heck do you spell that?) for him to hand out [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to > mention my time. For starters, make sure you get the money up front. A new business owner is very likely to be cash poor, and the only bills that get paid are suppliers he needs who might otherwise cut him off. And make sure he doesn't get the bright idea you were also going to distribute them. The notion that you might do this for free doesn't speak well for a good business relationship. Jo >> I've been asked by the guy who bought the store down the street to >> create and print up fliers (how the heck do you spell that?) for him [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Jo At the risk of sounding like a racist by mentioning this (someone once accused me of that), the guy is Arabic and is probably used to doing business somewhat differently. He's actually a very nice guy; on my birthday he gave me some free Reese's Peanut Butter Cups! LOL You're right about cash poor. The large freezer case where he stores all the frozen dinners, ice cream, etc. is broken yet again. He bought the store "as is". I could have told him that thing breaks down every 6 weeks or so; it's 30 years old! He keeps throwing good money after bad getting it "fixed" while losing the stock that was stored in it and having to replace it all. He's gonna have to buy a new freezer case - that ain't cheap. And hell no, I'm not distributing the fliers! Thanks for the tips! I'm going to make a mock-up, print one copy and then discuss price if he wants me to do this. I'll get the cash up front. I'll have to buy the paper and ink cartridges anyway; my printer is running low. Jill [[And hell no, I'm not distributing the fliers! Thanks for the tips! I'm going to make a mock-up, print one copy and then discuss price if he wants me to do this. I'll get the cash up front. I'll have to buy the paper and ink cartridges anyway; my printer is running low.]] Maybe after you get the mock-up flyer done, you could price at some local print/copy shops what it'd cost to have copies of that flyer run off. Then you'd be able to go to him and say, "If you had Kinko's print you 500 of these, it'd cost you ___, but I'll charge you ___ instead". You might even bring in proof of what the cost of paper and ink would be for you to take this task on, so he's not surprised when the cost of materials is included in the price. I'm sure you can both work out a reasonable amount based on the materials you'll need to do this, the time you'll be spending, and the fact that the guy probably is working with a tight budget. Good luck! :o) Donna, Captain, and Stanley > [[And hell no, I'm not distributing the fliers! Thanks for the tips! > I'm going to make a mock-up, print one copy and then discuss price if [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Donna, Captain, and Stanley Actually, I used to know a guy who owned a print shop. We took all our business there when I worked for Prudential, but that was 20 years ago. If he's still in business he'll probably remember me. It wouldn't cost that much to have some photocopies made, even in colour. I'm thinking I'll do the basic design for him then cost out the copies. I'm not trying to get rich off this guy, just trying to help him out without putting myself out of money. I'm already a regular customer; he doesn't get to benefit for free because of that :) Jill >> [[And hell no, I'm not distributing the fliers! Thanks for the tips! >> I'm going to make a mock-up, print one copy and then discuss price if [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >money. I'm already a regular customer; he doesn't get to benefit for free >because of that :) Being a generous soul I'd offer to do it for the cost of the materials plus about ten or fifteen bucks for my time depending on how long it took. Just tell him it'll cost him X amount of dollars and see if he wants to go ahead... Signature~Karen aka Kajikit Crafts, cats, and chocolate - the three essentials of life http://www.kajikitscorner.com >>> [[And hell no, I'm not distributing the fliers! Thanks for the >>> tips! [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > took. Just tell him it'll cost him X amount of dollars and see if he > wants to go ahead... Actually, I'd love to do it for nothing. But I'm unemployed so I can't afford to just give away materials or my time. I do enjoy doing stuff like this, but I've already spent about 3 hours trying to design the flier. When I was employed, if you calculated my salary down to an hourly wage I made $25/hour (which is probably why I can't find a job... that along with my age... they can and do hire college kids who still live at home but don't have to earn a "living wage" due to either living with their parents or having roommates). *HUGE SIGH* Of course, I wasn't a graphics designer... I was doing QA and supporting proprietary software. My own fault that I limited myself... who knew after 11 years they'd cut me loose? I'm trying to help the guy out without it costing him *or* me much of anything but still make a profit. I like to eat and so does Persia :) Jill > Actually, I'd love to do it for nothing. But I'm unemployed so I can't > afford to just give away materials or my time. I do enjoy doing stuff like [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Jill I hear you. Ad design is what I used to do for a living, and I enjoy little projects that come my way. It's temping to do them for free, esp. when it's someone I really like and want to help. I'd probably just charge $30 or so for set-up and provide him with a master copy and burn the flyer PDF on a disk. But that's just me--don't feel bad if you had a higher price in mind. Remember, you're providing him with YOUR original design, which he will now own. He'll be free to take your design, if he wants to, and use it for newspaper ads, signage, or whatever in the future. If you want to outsource the printing, you can get an estimate, mark it up at least 20-30% to pay for your legwork. (gasoline isn't cheap!!) I still have a subscription to a clip art service (heh. we still call it clip art, even though it's online and there are no scissors involved anymore!) If I can help you with the artwork or anything, just let me know. I've also done trade-outs occassionally. Where you trade product for your service. I got my dishwasher that way, for doing a newspaper insert for a small appliance store. Sherry >> Actually, I'd love to do it for nothing. But I'm unemployed so I >> can't afford to just give away materials or my time. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I'd probably just charge $30 or so for set-up and provide him with a > master copy and burn the flyer PDF on a disk. Unfortunately, I don't have any way to burn a CD. I don't have a read/write CD drive. I could save it to a diskette; I'm not sure he'd know what to do with it LOL Jill >>>>[[And hell no, I'm not distributing the fliers! Thanks for the >>>>tips! [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > I'm trying to help the guy out without it costing him *or* me much of > anything but still make a profit. I like to eat and so does Persia :) No reason you should apologize for that! When I was singing, I had a regular accompanist who was also a good friend. However, he played piano for a living - I would never have dreamt of asking him to play for me for free (even when I was not being paid, myself, for singing). > Jill > Actually, I used to know a guy who owned a print shop. We took all > our business there when I worked for Prudential, but that was 20 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > regular customer; he doesn't get to benefit for free because of that > :) I agree you shouldn't gouge him, but there's nothing wrong with getting the money you deserve. Design of flyers is definitely skilled labor. And IMO, just because you can get a discount at a print shop doesn't mean that you have any obligation to commensurately lower your price for this shopkeeper. Now, if you see it as doing a favor, that's a different matter; but I would definitely make a point of mentally compartmentalizing favors and jobs. And if it's a favor to him, make it very clear, otherwise he might expect you to offer such "favor"able rates every time he needs this kind of help. On the other hand ... don't I recall you having job difficulties right now? You could make a point of doing this at cost, and doing a remarkable job, in exchange for his agreement to give you a quote you can use on advertisements for your *own* flyer design business ... Just a thought. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > >> I've been asked by the guy who bought the store down the street to > >> create and print up fliers (how the heck do you spell that?) for him [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Jill $25-50 for design depending on complexity - give him a clean copy and get him photocopy however many he needs. Printing them with ink is time consuming and 500 copies will put a strain on your printer. Photocopies are much cheaper and the toner doesn't run If he can't afford to pay you, you might want to think about barter. Fi > I've been asked by the guy who bought the store down the street to create > and print up fliers (how the heck do you spell that?) for him to hand out [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > thinking 500 sheets of paper, black and colour ink, plus my time designing > and modifying the sheets as needed. No clue here! Well, Jill, I work for a CPA, and our rates for services are based on three times the employee's hourly salary rate, plus any Fedex charges, etc. incurred on the client's behalf. In your case (since you don't have the overhead a firm maintaing an office does), figure out what the paper and ink cost (may as well get a set of ink refills out of it), add on double whatever your regular employer pays you for the same sort of work, and give him your estimate. (If he objects, you might point out that if he wants expert assistance, he must expect to pay for it - even if you ARE "only a woman".) >So, what I should charge for helping him do his "marketing" ? I'm still >thinking 500 sheets of paper, black and colour ink, plus my time designing >and modifying the sheets as needed. No clue here! How about a nice lifetime discount? Jane |
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