Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / July 2005
Dan Mahoney--Get Conan/Dylan Out of Four Paws Kennell
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Mary - 11 Jul 2005 22:23 GMT Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong.
nbvxdbzdbd - 11 Jul 2005 22:33 GMT >Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong. Dan M - 14 Jul 2005 01:12 GMT >>Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong. Mary, is that you posting with "nbvxdbzdbd" in the "From" field? If so, that's pretty chickenshit. Whoever it is, it's pretty chickenshit.
But just to set the record straight, Conan spent about a week in a nice, roomy enclosure. He's spent the last little while in a house. A nice, comfy, cat-friendly house. So you're the one who is lieing. He hasn't spent two weeks in a cage, so you just lied.
Anyhow, my apologies to the good folks of RPCA. I promise, I'm through talking to Mary and nbvxdbzdbd for today. I'm back to quitely monitoring and ignoring those who need to be ignored.
Mary - 14 Jul 2005 01:20 GMT >>>Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > comfy, cat-friendly house. So you're the one who is lieing. He hasn't > spent two weeks in a cage, so you just lied. I only post using this email address and this server.
> Anyhow, my apologies to the good folks of RPCA. I promise, I'm through > talking to Mary and nbvxdbzdbd for today. I'm back to quitely monitoring > and ignoring those who need to be ignored. You can ignore everything but the truth.
You are the one who has to look at your face in the mirror.
If Conan has not been in a cage for two weeks, you should have said so.
Charlie Wilkes - 14 Jul 2005 20:45 GMT >>>Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >comfy, cat-friendly house. So you're the one who is lieing. He hasn't >spent two weeks in a cage, so you just lied. No, Dan. She was voicing the default supposition, made because she lacks the information you have.
Conjecture is not mendacity, Dan.
I think you need to go back to pre-school for a remedial course in basic reality. Up is not down. Backwards is not forwards. Saying you didn't eat the candy when you did eat the candy is not OK, even if you can dream up a whole list of excuses.
Charlie
Philip - 14 Jul 2005 23:03 GMT >>>> Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is >>>> wrong. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Charlie At the time, Dan thought it better to apologize later than to ask permission now. I agree with Dan.
equalizer - 14 Jul 2005 23:23 GMT >>>>> Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is >>>>> wrong. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >At the time, Dan thought it better to apologize later than to ask permission >now. I agree with Dan. You put the cat in a kill shelter, and you make sweeping generalizations about an entire race of people being cat/dog eaters. We've seen your morals, so the above comes as no surprise to anyone.
eq
Philip - 15 Jul 2005 01:39 GMT >>>>>> Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is >>>>>> wrong. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > eq You forgot to include that I put children WAY above pets and that I defer to DVMs for professional medical opinion over your self proclaimed expertise in the same arena.
I am such a sinner, yes. :^)
Charlie Wilkes - 14 Jul 2005 23:36 GMT >>>>> Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is >>>>> wrong. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >At the time, Dan thought it better to apologize later than to ask permission >now. I agree with Dan. He had no need to seek permission, Philip. That is why his deception -- a vivid fable, complete with imaginary details -- is so jarring.
As for apologizing, I guess I missed that thread.
Charlie
Christina Websell - 11 Jul 2005 23:17 GMT > Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong. Mary, I really like you for your honesty. When you crossed the great divide between h&b and rpca it was understood that you would keep to the posting protocol here. For a long time, you did, and were made welcome. This Conan stuff and attacking Dan is going too far for me. This is how I see it: Conan was in a kill shelter and was likely to be euthanised if a home was not found quickly. An appeal was made for someone to rescue him from the kill shelter. So Dan did this. The cat was not exactly on his doorstep so he put himself out to get him. Now the cat is safe. Maybe not in the ideal circumstances you would want him to be yet, but he is not going to die now. Just be grateful that Conan is now safe and try and be patient about him getting a forever home. I'm sure he will soon. Please chill out about this Mary and have some trust in others. I would really hate to have to killfile you. I will have to if you continually crosspost and try to stir up rpca. Please don't make me do it. You used to send such nice posts here, I loved to read them.
Tweed
~*LiveLoveLaugh*~ - 11 Jul 2005 23:44 GMT > > Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong. > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Tweed Very nice post. But M. already crossed the plonk line. She has been warned, and warned and warned. I would very much like this to go away and have Mary's fun posts come back to us.
I mean, soooooooooooo many people have let this *consume* them!!
Funny thing about this: I was ready (yet) another thread about this last night. Fabio, my new Chihuahua pet was doing something naughty, so I went to say "no, Fabio"!... but since I had freegin' "Conan" on the brain, I yelled out "CONAN, NO!"
Joe-hubby looked at me and asked, "Who's Conan? Did you change your puppy's name???"
Oy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
 Signature ·.·´¨ ¨)) -:¦:- ¸.·´ .·´¨¨)) Laurie ((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- ((¸¸ ·.·
*~*LiveLoveLaugh*~* Aloha!!!!!
"There is no remedy for love but to love more"... ~~Henry David Thoreau
Mary - 12 Jul 2005 00:18 GMT >> "Mary" <marys@catlover.com> wrote in message > news:42d2e2ed_3@x-privat.org... [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > I mean, soooooooooooo many people have let this *consume* them!! I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation sessions. I am concerned about this cat, and I want Dan to do the right thing. The cat is much more important than any of you--since you can presumably take care of yourselves.
Use your killfiles. I have no wish to have any contact with anyone who behaves as you have with regard to this poor cat and Dan's abusive behavior.
hjkj,j,h,,gh,g - 12 Jul 2005 00:23 GMT >>> "Mary" <marys@catlover.com> wrote in message >> news:42d2e2ed_3@x-privat.org... [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >who behaves as you have with regard to this poor cat and Dan's >abusive behavior. Gracecat - 12 Jul 2005 01:02 GMT <hjkj>; <j>; <h>; <gh>; <g> wrote in message news:vrv5d1h6ghvf71urmdoukpa1eta2bniaoh@4ax.com...
>>>> "Mary" <marys@catlover.com> wrote in message >>> news:42d2e2ed_3@x-privat.org... [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] >>who behaves as you have with regard to this poor cat and Dan's >>abusive behavior. I killfiled the Conan group a long time ago for this very reason.
If you want us to killfile you, why bother with changing your headers so we have to see you? That's just asking for more drama Mary.
Grace plonking... again...
Christina Websell - 12 Jul 2005 00:53 GMT >>> "Mary" <marys@catlover.com> wrote in message >> news:42d2e2ed_3@x-privat.org... [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation sessions. Eh??
> I am concerned about this cat, and I want Dan to do the right thing. > The cat is much more important than any of you--since you can [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > who behaves as you have with regard to this poor cat and Dan's > abusive behavior. To post like you did about mutual masturbation in response to posts here..well. It's totally out of order, Mary. Your thinking is skewed. LISTEN. Conan is safe thanks to Dan. He will get a good home soon. He is out of the kill shelter. It doesn't matter if no-one visits him since he would be dead already at the other place and he doesn't know anyone near there anyway. It would not improve his life if Dan went to see him, as he does not know Dan anyway. Please calm down. Conan will get a good home, Mary.
RPCA is a unique group. We come here to share cat stories and support each other. If you cannot keep to this, you will not be welcome. Don't spoil it by spilling the cr*p from H&B here. Like Victor said, this group is special.
Tweed
Trish - 12 Jul 2005 01:43 GMT > >>> "Mary" <marys@catlover.com> wrote in message > >> news:42d2e2ed_3@x-privat.org... [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > Tweed Little yellow school bus special?
Christina Websell - 12 Jul 2005 02:24 GMT >> >> "Christina Websell" <spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in > message [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] >> > Little yellow school bus special? Don't understand. I'm not American. I have no idea what this means. What I *would* say is that if you don't understand what rpca is about, keep away. Tweed
Magic Mood Jeep© - 12 Jul 2005 02:37 GMT >>>>> "Christina Websell" <spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in >> message [quoted text clipped - 89 lines] > about, keep away. > Tweed An explanation for you:
Over here in "Merikaland" (where some people fail to see that usenet is on the World Wide Web, and that there are people outside of "Merikaland" that post here), the school buses are usually yellow with black stripes & lettering. The reference to the "little" yellow shcool buses was, basically, calling us a bunch of "retards" (or mentally handicapped if you must be PC), since the buses that normally take the handicapped children to their school(s) is typically only about 1/2 the length of a "normal" school bus.
Hope that helps you.
On another note, I have plonked all the non-regulars (in RPCA) that have been cross-psoting their useless diatribe, and am getting ready to plonk some more (Tweed, CatNipped, Dan & Jill are not among them - the rest of you will probably know who you are)
 Signature The ONE and ONLY lefthanded-pathetic-paranoid-psychotic-sarcastic-wiseass-ditzy former-blonde in Bloomington! (And proud of it, too)© email me at nalee1964 (at) insightbb (dot) com http://community.webshots.com/user/mgcmdjeep
Trish - 12 Jul 2005 02:48 GMT > >>>>> "Christina Websell" <spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in > >> message [quoted text clipped - 106 lines] > some more (Tweed, CatNipped, Dan & Jill are not among them - the rest of you > will probably know who you are) hey! i'm not amerikan
Christina Websell - 12 Jul 2005 03:02 GMT >>>>>> "Christina Websell" <spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in >>> message [quoted text clipped - 101 lines] > > Hope that helps you. It did, thank you. Shocked me a bit that someone would say such a thing.
> On another note, I have plonked all the non-regulars (in RPCA) that have > been cross-psoting their useless diatribe, and am getting ready to plonk > some more (Tweed, CatNipped, Dan & Jill are not among them - the rest of > you will probably know who you are) I have never plonked so many people into the killfile on rpca as I just did this last week or so. It makes me sad.
Tweed
Magic Mood Jeep© - 12 Jul 2005 02:37 GMT >>>> "Christina Websell" <spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in > message [quoted text clipped - 83 lines] >> > Little yellow school bus special? And another one <plonks> the dust
jmcquown - 12 Jul 2005 00:54 GMT >>> "Mary" <marys@catlover.com> wrote in message >> news:42d2e2ed_3@x-privat.org... [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > who behaves as you have with regard to this poor cat and Dan's > abusive behavior. I don't see what Dan did that is "abusive". Letting Conan fall into the hands of that Charlie a.shole would have been abusive. So, you asked for it, you got it Mary. Killfile for you. Sorry.
Jill
whitershadeofpale - 12 Jul 2005 00:56 GMT > I don't see what Dan did that is "abusive". Letting Conan fall into the > hands of that Charlie a.shole would have been abusive. So, you asked for > it, you got it Mary. Killfile for you. Sorry. > > Jill Mary's gonna burn your a.s for this!
We have no less then 25 Expendable finger puppets!
Every puppet has it's day!
CatNipped - 12 Jul 2005 02:05 GMT > I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation sessions. > I am concerned about this cat, and I want Dan to do the right thing. Mary, I'm concerned about Conan too. I just don't know what I (or anyone else) could do to force either Monica or Dan to give Conan to the guy in San Diego (or anyone else). I'm also very upset that Conan has to stay in a kennel instead of a home, I think Monica's rejection of the guy in San Diego was wrong. But after all this time I don't think Dan is going to respond to you, so I don't see how posting repeated pleas to Dan here will change Conan's situation (Dan probably has you kill-filed so he won't even see your posts). If there were anything I *could* do to help Conan, I certainly would.
> The cat is much more important than any of you--since you can > presumably take care of yourselves. > > Use your killfiles. I have no wish to have any contact with anyone > who behaves as you have with regard to this poor cat and Dan's > abusive behavior. I don't understand this. What behavior are you talking about? Do you mean people asking you to keep this in rpch+b? I think that's only out of frustration from some of the vitriol spilling over from the other group, not out of apathy for Conan's plight. Again, I don't know of anything we can do to change Dan's or Monica's stance on this issue.
So what are you suggesting we do? [Note, this isn't a "challenge" or sarcasm, just a sincere inquiry from someone else who would like to help Conan.]
Hugs,
CatNipped
Mary - 12 Jul 2005 02:18 GMT >> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation sessions. >> I am concerned about this cat, and I want Dan to do the right thing. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > San > Diego (or anyone else). Who said anything about force? That's absurd. Of course you can't--nor would I want to--force them or anyone to do anything.
I'm also very upset that Conan has to stay in a
> kennel instead of a home, I think Monica's rejection of the guy in San > Diego > was wrong. But after all this time I don't think Dan is going to respond > to > you, If Dan responded to my emails I would not post here.
so I don't see how posting repeated pleas to Dan here will change
> Conan's situation (Dan probably has you kill-filed so he won't even see > your > posts).
:) Right. If there were anything I *could* do to help Conan, I certainly
> would. > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > CatNipped Lead, follow, or get the f.ck out of the way. The cat is still in a cage.
CatNipped - 12 Jul 2005 02:23 GMT > >> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation sessions. > >> I am concerned about this cat, and I want Dan to do the right thing. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > If Dan responded to my emails I would not post here. Nobody here can make Dan respond to your emails.
> so I don't see how posting repeated pleas to Dan here will change > > Conan's situation (Dan probably has you kill-filed so he won't even see [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > > Lead, follow, or get the f.ck out of the way. The cat is still in a cage. Yes, he is. So what can I do to change that? (Again, I'm being sincere).
Hugs,
CatNipped
~*LiveLoveLaugh*~ - 12 Jul 2005 02:36 GMT > > >> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation sessions. > > >> I am concerned about this cat, and I want Dan to do the right thing. [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > Hugs, What hugs? No, CN. No sincerity AT ALL. You are not being sincere!! FF's sake! You're involving YOUR friends by continuing on and on and on in this GROUP where YOUR on line friends have BEGGED you to leave H&B and the sh!t there OUT of this group. You just will not, and cannot see that you're hurting yourself, YOUR internet friends, AND the possibility of making real friends.
I cannot continue to read you, CN. You're part of the problem. I was warned and I didn't listen, but now I am. I DO THANK YOU for the well wishes for my mom.
g'bye... and...
Plonk.
 Signature LLL :(
Trish - 12 Jul 2005 02:46 GMT > > > >> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation > sessions. [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > > Plonk. wow i bet God loved that post, the same God you like to thank so often, he's crying now, another thorn in his crown, another soul lost
shame shame shame
bhjkkhgkghk - 12 Jul 2005 03:20 GMT >> I cannot continue to read you, CN. You're part of the problem. I was >> warned and I didn't listen, but now I am. I DO THANK YOU for the well [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >shame >shame CatNipped - 12 Jul 2005 02:46 GMT > What hugs? No, CN. No sincerity AT ALL. You are not being sincere!! FF's > sake! You're involving YOUR friends by continuing on and on and on in this [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Plonk. I'm sorry you feel that way Laurie. I was never *in* this Conan debate except for (I think) 3 posts asking for balance and understanding. I haven't gone "on and on" about this. Indeed, the above post was my attempt to *stop* the cross-posting, not to continue it. I *was* being sincere in asking Mary why she was continuing to post here about Conan - what does she think we can do to change anything - so that she would see that this wasn't going to get Conan's situation changed.
Hugs,
CatNipped
mklhjkghkghjkf - 12 Jul 2005 03:20 GMT >> What hugs? No, CN. No sincerity AT ALL. You are not being sincere!! >FF's [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >CatNipped Christina Websell - 12 Jul 2005 02:49 GMT >> >> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation >> >> sessions. [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > CatNipped I'm getting sick of this. The cat is safe from being killed, which was the whole purpose of the original post, to save him from euthanasia. He might have to sit out in a cage for a while. For goodness sake he is still here and alive! He will get a home eventually. Have you all forgotten that HE IS NOW SAFE? Pffff. Let's just trust the folks that have him will find him a forever home and hope he will get one soon.
Tweed
CatNipped - 12 Jul 2005 02:56 GMT > >> >> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation > >> >> sessions. [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > > Tweed I'm sorry Tweed. Obviously I wasn't clear enough in what I was trying to do. I was hoping that with my questions Mary would see that there is nothing we can to - no matter how much she posts about Conan here - to change the situation, so hopefully we could stop this crossposting.
There are obviously a number of people now posting here who do not like it here. I'm at a loss as to why they're reading here in light of that, but asking them to stop is not working so...
OK, I'm ducking and running now - I don't want to get embroiled any further.
Hugs,
CatNipped
Philip - 12 Jul 2005 03:58 GMT In news:3jgm2mFpvvg3U1@individual.net, <spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk>Christina Websell stated unanimously:
>>>>> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual >>>>> masturbation [quoted text clipped - 99 lines] > > Tweed Yours has been my creed from the day Conan was readopted. But the Drama Queens (male and female alike) live for every new twist Mary and her Minions come up with.
l;l.,,ghfgmfgmf - 12 Jul 2005 02:29 GMT >>> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation sessions. >>> I am concerned about this cat, and I want Dan to do the right thing. [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] >> >Lead, follow, or get the f.ck out of the way. The cat is still in a cage. jmcquown - 12 Jul 2005 03:58 GMT l wrote:
>>>> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation >>>> sessions. I am concerned about this cat, and I want Dan to do the [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] >> Lead, follow, or get the f.ck out of the way. The cat is still in a >> cage. Which is where all the intruders to rpca from h+b should be! Quit obsessing over Conan. Hello! There are LOTS of cats (and dogs) in cages, being fed, given water, medical treatment... welcome to real life. Get the hell over it and stop disrupting this group!
Jill
Mary - 12 Jul 2005 06:05 GMT >l wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > given water, medical treatment... welcome to real life. Get the hell over > it and stop disrupting this group! This is a Usenet group, Jill. Unmoderated. Grow some self control.
Mischief - 12 Jul 2005 06:23 GMT look who's talking
Mischief - 12 Jul 2005 06:27 GMT you say get some self control, yet you keep posting these threads bashing Dan. A lot of people want to just move on, so why don't you do the same?
Mary - 12 Jul 2005 06:29 GMT > you say get some self control, yet you keep posting these threads > bashing Dan. A lot of people want to just move on, so why don't you do > the same? Because there is a cat I care about who is still homeless because of Dan.
Dan must be held accountable.
You do remember that you are supposed to be one of those people who like cats, right?
You might also consider mastering your newseader.
Mischief - 12 Jul 2005 07:18 GMT >>To whom are you replying? Uh, you're the one to said to get some self control, and from what I've been able to piece together, having you say that is redundant.
>>mastering your newseader?? Wish I knew what you were talking about. I don't even know how to killfile anyone on Google and it doesn't seem like I can. I hate what is happening here, and I've kept myself out of this until now, and really I'm just confused on why people are still beating this subject to death?
Yes I do like cats, but I also know when to pick and choose my battles. I care about every animal that I see in the clinic and I can't save all of them. I've gone to countless shelters and realized that I can't help all of them either. I've seen cats and dogs put down on a weekly basis, and some because their owners don't care and yes I want to hold them accountable. I've had owners lie to my face about the health care of their animal and I can't do a thing about it. But I do know one thing. That bitching and trashing talking and in this case, flaming, does absolutely NOTHING to help the situation. If anything it helps you vent, but after a while, even that gets old, especially to the people around you and brings everything and everybody down.
If Dan is to be held accountable; then he'll get what is coming to him. Actually I haven't had a chance to hear his side of the story because it appears that so many people are assuming their own endings. If so many people are convinced that you are lying, what good is it for you to say your piece if everyone has already made up their minds about you? If he truly lied, then personally I want to hear it from Dan himself. If he doesn't do anything, yes I will be disappointed and confused for a bit, but I will still MOVE ON. Personally I like his stories, and hope to hear more of them. If I were in your shoes I might also be angry. You have every right to feel upset and betrayed, and I probably would feel the same, but it still results in one thing; I can either sit and stew in my own feelings about something that really ticks me off and that I can't really do anything about, or I try to move on and focus on more important things in life.
Do I know what really has gone on? No I don't. Do I really care? Not really, since it sounds like Conan seems to be okay. In a cage is not ideal, but can I do anything about that? No. I hate it too, but I can't do anything, and I don't think you can either. I like this group mainly because of the mutual love for telling stories, especially about cats. That's why I came and posted in the first place, because people like my stories, respect my comments and overall treat me like a friend and no one here has even met me. I remember once in a posting someone flamed me and yes I was offended and hurt, but I got over it.
I'm just saying that yes this whole this is horrible and has gotten out of hand and what not, but the cruel fact remains, there's isn't anything we can do at the moment, so either sit and beat a dead horse or move on to the next issue/battle/fight/subject or whatever.
Okay that's my piece. Time to move on to the funny cat stories that make me laugh.
Kristi
klhjlghklgh - 12 Jul 2005 09:41 GMT >> you say get some self control, yet you keep posting these threads >> bashing Dan. A lot of people want to just move on, so why don't you do [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >You might also consider mastering your newseader. Philip - 12 Jul 2005 15:47 GMT >> you say get some self control, yet you keep posting these threads >> bashing Dan. A lot of people want to just move on, so why don't you do [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > You might also consider mastering your newseader. Blood Mary ... there is no one in this forum that wishes you any less than a hard drive failure or a lightening strike.
ghgfngfhfggfn - 12 Jul 2005 22:10 GMT >>> you say get some self control, yet you keep posting these threads >>> bashing Dan. A lot of people want to just move on, so why don't you do [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Blood Mary ... there is no one in this forum that wishes you any less than a >hard drive failure or a lightening strike. Actually, there's far more people wishing for your pacemaker to quit.....
Mary - 12 Jul 2005 06:29 GMT > look who's talking To whom are you replying?
Howard C. Berkowitz - 12 Jul 2005 06:29 GMT > This is a Usenet group, Jill. Unmoderated. Grow some self control. I tend to call it a newsgroup, as I used news long before there was Usenet. In the eighties, it wasn't easy to get access to news, and, when you did, it took a good deal more technical skill to use it.
One thing that was characteristic of those times, however, is that people, first in professional and then in social and recreational groups, used either their real names, or, if their local system enforced something strange, there was no mystery. There was a sense of virtual communities, even though the actual technical mechanisms underlying news distribution (UUCP bilateral agreements) was nearly anarchical -- as is IP routing in the general Internet.
When people are known, their reputations become important. Now, the reputations would differ with the newsgroup -- I remember one well-respected professor of linguistics, who also described himself as a radical queer leather sadist with a cigar fetish, discussed in non-linguistic groups. People made allowances, as I managed to tolerate a person with a cigar fetish.
There wasn't a lot of flaming, because what people said made a real difference. That didn't mean they met often -- I developed some real friendships, but it was years before I met people in person. At networking conferences, name tags often had email addresses in larger fonts than the regular names -- more people probably knew me at !cos!hcb than as Howard Berkowitz.
I haven't counted recently, but I must subscribe to at least 40 or 50 professional and social mailing lists. Very few are moderated, but peer pressure very quickly stops flame wars.
So I ask the people that say "It's only Usenet," who benefits from hostility and anarchy? News groups were once quite flame free. Is it Shaw that wrote, "Some look at things as they are and say, "why?". Others look at things that have never been, and say, "why not?""
The question, I suppose, is whether each individual benefits by anonymous flaming and confrontation. YMMV. For the record, I can't think of a newsgroup or mailing list where my identity isn't known. Oh, there have been a few times I've taken a pseudonym that everyone knew -- such as the leader of the Penguin Liberation Front in a discussion of the Falklands.
A woman friend once challenged me to find out what it was like to have a female persona in a chat room, and, indeed, it was enlightening. Now, some men did this but not well, and there were often a few questions that almost any man who had been married could answer (e.g., pantyhose sizes). It was amusing, however, when someone asked me about pelvic exams.
I've been instructed in such things and have done limited ones under supervision by a wise gynecologist. At some point in my answer, after I had removed the carefully selected Graves or Pedersen speculum, and went on to the bimanual examination, my friend chat-whispered, "_I_ don't know that...I just close my eyes and wait for it to be over."
Again, YMMV.
Mary - 12 Jul 2005 06:46 GMT >> This is a Usenet group, Jill. Unmoderated. Grow some self control. > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > The question, I suppose, is whether each individual benefits by > anonymous flaming and confrontation. YMMV. This is about a little red cat for whom several of us arranged a rescue from a kill shelter and several potential homes. Dan Mahoney offered to go and get him and take him to his new home. He then lied to us, said he did not have him, allowed Monica Towle to turn down all the good homes, and the cat has been in a cage for over two weeks since Dan got him from the shelter. Are you reading me, Howard? I have flamed nobody. In this instance I have merely told the truth and asked Dan for answers, which he will not give me. My heart hurts for this little cat, and I feel betrayed by Dan. He has possession of the cat--in the sense that he took him to the kennel where he has languished for two weeks. All I want is for Dan to do what he said he was going to do--if not the homes we arranged, then another home.
I am upset about this. I gave to Dan's Harri vet fund, like everyone else. I trusted him. He betrayed that trust and is not even person enough to own up to it, so that is not an issue. But Conan/Dylan/Sunny IS still a an issue.
In this case this group is being brutally unfair to this little cat--because nobody must tarnish Dan's reputation. When in fact only Dan has injured his reputation by betraying the trust of several people and harming this little cat's chance of having a home.
For the record, I can't
> think of a newsgroup or mailing list where my identity isn't known. Oh, > there have been a few times I've taken a pseudonym that everyone knew -- [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Again, YMMV. Howard C. Berkowitz - 12 Jul 2005 07:18 GMT > >> This is a Usenet group, Jill. Unmoderated. Grow some self control. > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > distribution (UUCP bilateral agreements) was nearly anarchical -- as is > > IP routing in the general Internet.
> > I haven't counted recently, but I must subscribe to at least 40 or 50 > > professional and social mailing lists. Very few are moderated, but peer [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > from > a kill shelter and several potential homes. It is indeed about that. It is also about conduct in a virtual community.
>Dan Mahoney offered to go and > get him and take him to his new home. He then lied to us, said he did not > have him, allowed Monica Towle to turn down all the good homes, and > the cat has been in a cage for over two weeks since Dan got him from > the shelter. Are you reading me, Howard? I have flamed nobody. May I observe I said "flaming and confrontation"? Flamed no, confronted repeatedly.
> In this instance I have merely told the truth and asked Dan for answers, > which he will not give me. And your actual experience should have demonstrated now, whatever the facts of the matter, that Dan is not going to answer.
> My heart hurts for this little cat, and I feel > betrayed by Dan. He has possession of the cat--in the sense that > he took him to the kennel where he has languished for two weeks
> All I want is for Dan to do what he said he was going to do--if > not the homes we arranged, then another home. It's entirely probable he has killfiled you. He certainly has demonstrated that he isn't going to answer you.
> I am upset about this. I gave to Dan's Harri vet fund, like > everyone else. I trusted him. He betrayed that trust and is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > In this case this group is being brutally unfair to this little > cat--because nobody must tarnish Dan's reputation. I have my own opinions, which I do not intend to share. Nevertheless, I don't see your actions as tarnishing his reputation or not. Your points have been made, and people will take them as they will.
Ever read the "Rime of the Ancient Mariner"? Was there a benefit to the mariner spending his life telling all he had shot the albatross?
>When > in fact only Dan has injured his reputation by betraying the > trust of several people and harming this little cat's chance of > having a home. From my perspective, there were allegations from both sides. I don't know the truth of the matter, and I'm not going to go to California to find out. I might be biased slightly, based on the history I've given, to people who use their real names. In this case, however, I really don't know the truth of the matter.
I'd really like to know if Secretary of War Stanton was part of a conspiracy to kill Lincoln, but I accept I never will know. Even when all the records are unsealed, we won't really know if Oswald acted alone. I don't agonize over these things.
Perhaps more to the point, I've been in situations where I did all I could to help the health of a two- or four-legged person, and I know I did. Somewhere along the line, playing what-if is not a useful exercise.
Chatterley (RB) declined over a couple of years, probably from a slow-growing brain tumor. She needed more and more nursing care, grooming, etc., but I could clearly tell she was happy. One day, at about 1PM, she collapsed. She couldn't walk, but she actually played a bit and gobbled tuna until about 5 or 6 PM, when she started having convulsions. They frightened her, and I could examine her well enough to believe it was likely she was dying. There was an intense ice storm outside, and even if I could have gotten through it, she hated cars and I wouldn't have wanted that to be her last memory. I did check through the injectable drugs I had available, but there was nothing appropriate for sedation or euthanasia.
She made it very clear that she wanted to be close to me, and I held her and soothed her through the next three hours or so, as she pressed against me. One convulsion was especially strong, as she lay in my arms, and she seemed to relax, then stopped breathing. The stethoscope confirmed her heart had stopped.
Should I have euthanized her sometime earlier? I don't think so. She could no longer use the litter box, but as long as I kept her clean, she was happy and even playful. Yes, if I had an appropriate drug, I probably would have given it to her in the last 3 or 4 hours. Under the circumstances, I did the best I could, and I think she died happy.
Less happy was my mother's final illness, when breast cancer chemotherapy was rather new. For various odd reasons, I had wound up in the not ideal position of giving her most medical news, and getting the details first from the staff. She had called me saying the nurses were annoying her, wanting to give her IVs "to build up her strength". Puzzled, I called several of the staff to find out what was going on, and found that the IVs were intended to reverse a reaction she was having to a new drug. The doctors were mixed about whether they should or not, because, if untreated, this reaction would cause her to go to sleep and not wake up, within 48-72 hours.
The point was that she was still a conscious adult, and no one had been willing to tell her the truth and let her make a decision. They wanted me to make it for her, but I felt she was still alert enough to discuss the situation. Complicating the situation was that there was one remaining treatment, with about a 30% chance of helping her.
I told her that I would support any choice she made, but it needed to be her choice. She chose to take the immediate treatment and then the one last drug, which didn't work. She died very, very badly, having transferred to a hospital that wouldn't respect a DNR or even do decent terminal care (this was a veterans' hospital in 1975).
If I had been in her position, I probably would have elected the gentle death of hypercalcemia, knowing that no cure was possible. Still, I think I made the best choice among undesirable alternatives.
I suspect that different people here see different alternatives in different ways.
jffgjfgjfgjfgj - 12 Jul 2005 09:42 GMT >>> This is a Usenet group, Jill. Unmoderated. Grow some self control. >> [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] >> >> Again, YMMV. hjjm,ghjnj - 12 Jul 2005 09:35 GMT >>l wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > >This is a Usenet group, Jill. Unmoderated. Grow some self control. Philip - 12 Jul 2005 15:47 GMT > This is a Usenet group, Jill. Unmoderated. Grow some self control. Take your own advice, Bloody Mary.
Steve Touchstone - 12 Jul 2005 05:29 GMT <snip>
>If Dan responded to my emails I would not post here. So, has he responded to you here?!?! If he has I must have missed it - the vast majority of reponses I see from the regulars in this group are simply asking you to stop dragging this matter into this once peaceful group. What do you think you're accomplishing by harrassing this group as a whole by ignoring repeated requests to take this back to the other group? If he hasn't responded in the other group, hasn't responded to your emails, and hasn't responded in this group, I imagine you've been placed in his killfile.
Which is where I'm placing now - PLONK
 Signature Steve Touchstone, faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Spot with loving memories of Rocky (RB)
stouchst@JUNKsirinet.net [remove Junk for email] Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html
Mary - 12 Jul 2005 05:32 GMT > <snip> >>If Dan responded to my emails I would not post here. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > this group as a whole by ignoring repeated requests to take this back > to the other group? Have a little self control. Nobody forces any of you to read any post. This is an unmoderated group, and my posts are on-topic. You don't want to hear what I have to say? Don't read me.
If he hasn't responded in the other group, hasn't
> responded to your emails, and hasn't responded in this group, I > imagine you've been placed in his killfile. > > Which is where I'm placing now - PLONK Well, there you go. Now if you could learn to do it without squealing first.
vbfhhdfhdfh - 12 Jul 2005 09:43 GMT >> <snip> >>>If Dan responded to my emails I would not post here. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >Well, there you go. Now if you could learn to do it without >squealing first. Philip - 12 Jul 2005 02:53 GMT >> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation >> sessions. [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > CatNipped You should all pile into an old school bus painted up with hippy peace symbols and motor out to Charlie's place. When you arrive, you all lock yourselves inside his single wide and smoke a kilo with all the windows closed. Don't come out until you're finished.
LOL
Karen - 12 Jul 2005 00:22 GMT >> "Mary" <marys@catlover.com> wrote in message > news:42d2e2ed_3@x-privat.org... [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Oy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 ROFL!!!
Howard C. Berkowitz - 12 Jul 2005 03:02 GMT > > Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is > > wrong. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > loved > to read them. Let me echo Tweed's position. You have made excellent, sensitive contributions on RPCA. For that reason, I don't want to killfile you, as I already have several of the apparent RPCH+B people that aren't regularly here.
Whatever the reality of what has happened to Conan, there is no way that it's going to get a definitive answer here. The matter has degenerated to he-said-she-said, with all the positions quite clear. What can possibly be achieved by continued attacks on Dan, even if he's totally evil?
Let me offer an observation. I briefly subscribed to RPCH+B, but very quickly dropped it. Why did I do so? I'll try to answer indirectly. When I post here on a medical/veterinary matter, I think you have seen that I try to make a point of explaining the rationale, in scientific terms but written for understandability. There have been times, in responding to specific questions, that I've gone down to the molecular or genetic level in giving background. There are other times where I will give references, especially when I'm extrapolating from human medicine.
Frankly, I am delighted when someone points out a possible error or alternative. Sometimes, that is a good challenge to think of why my approach is substantiated. Other times, I will learn something. I suppose it's typical of someone trained in the sciences or engineering -- constructive criticism is part of life, and you benefit by it.
There were times, however, where someone considered "authoritative" on H+B made some posts about a laboratory diagnostic technique or specific pharmacology. I was told I was wrong, which isn't a big thing, if someone gives me a good analysis of why I was wrong. In the cases I ran into, I kept getting from the now-opponent "because I have lots of experience with cats". The issue happened to be laboratory diagnosis of renal failure. When I made the observation that creatinine, by itself, doesn't give the full picture, and gave, for example, the Cockcroft-Gault equation for estimating creatinine clearance -- creatinine clearance rate is one of the things you really wanted to know, he blew that away and kept talking about my lack of experience.
Sorry. When I respond with something out of any standard medical biochemistry or physiology textbook, and discuss the reasons why we need to look at least at creatinine, creatinine clearance, BUN, and possibly other measurements such as sodium, I expect a response at an equivalent level -- or at least be told I am wrong, and the poster is Professor of Physiology at UC Davis Veterinary School.
But just throwing accusations back and forth, in that case, proved nothing. I found a couple of posters that instantly would challenge any medical/scientific post I made, with no facts but much venom.
This has been roundabout, but I don't need that venom in my life. It's pointless. I hope that I don't lose your valued posts, where you have acted fairly, as opposed to some people that contribute nothing but sound and fury.
Rhonda - 12 Jul 2005 03:21 GMT Howard,
I know who you bumped heads with. I remember that encounter and respected you for the way you kept trying to discuss the issues, while the person in question resulted to personal attacks and multiple "lol's".
The group isn't bad, but there are some feisty people. Sometimes fluffy is good, sometimes feisty is good... I think a mix is nice.
Anyway, I wanted to tell you I appreciated your posts and intelligence. Hope any inflated egos don't keep you away forever.
Rhonda
> There were times, however, where someone considered "authoritative" on > H+B made some posts about a laboratory diagnostic technique or specific [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > creatinine clearance rate is one of the things you really wanted to > know, he blew that away and kept talking about my lack of experience. Mary - 12 Jul 2005 03:27 GMT > Howard, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Anyway, I wanted to tell you I appreciated your posts and intelligence. > Hope any inflated egos don't keep you away forever. Howard has a wonderful knowledge base, great patience in explaining things to those of us who know much less, and a wickedly funny sense of humor. I look for his posts.
Howard C. Berkowitz - 12 Jul 2005 04:17 GMT > > Howard, > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > in > > question resulted to personal attacks and multiple "lol's". I didn't know the group well enough to tell if there was a point to continuing trying to clarify some biochemistry he, not to be evasive, had completely wrong. It didn't seem as if others were particularly interested in the subject.
There are probably some sites around that have decent explanations, but, if explained carefully, the biochemistry and physiology of renal failure is both fascinating and turns out to be logical. Once you have the picture of what is going on, you start to see why certain drugs work. What I'd like to know is how much success veterinarians are having in protecting cats with drugs called ACE (angiotensin-II converting enzyme) inhibitors, and a related class of angiotensin-II receptor blockers (ARB). These are working quite well in controlling early renal damage in humans, and are even prescribed as preventives for people at high risk. Some evidence in people suggest low-dose aspirin also may be protective, but that's more controversial.
> > The group isn't bad, but there are some feisty people. Sometimes fluffy > > is > > good, sometimes feisty is good... I think a mix is nice. > > > > Anyway, I wanted to tell you I appreciated your posts and intelligence. > > Hope any inflated egos don't keep you away forever. As I remember, it seemed as if that individual had a claque -- not a clique, but a term from opera for paid applauders in the audience. In that case, IIRC, people were morphing userids to avoid killfiles. There are groups where I deal with obnoxious people, but, in what? using news since about 1986, I have never encountered such frenzy. Well...maybe with some radical male or female supremacists...
It simply didn't seem worth the effort, since there was some health discussion here. I didn't stay on H+B long enough to see if there were people discussing cat health at a more detailed level.
I'm exploring alt.med.veterinary, which is low traffic. I'd be delighted to go to H+B if it wasn't a constant battle, but my recollection is it tended to be like the crossposts of political activists into some military science groups -- but worse.
> Howard has a wonderful knowledge base, great patience in explaining > things > to those of us who know much less, and a wickedly funny sense of humor. > I look for his posts. Mary, I often look for yours, but I'm wincing in this current...dare I use a favorite term of opposition politicians...quagmire. I really hope I don't need to killfile, but with the Conan matter, I'm thinking of an old editorial cartoon.
IIRC, it was Herblock in the Washington Post, in the early seventies. The caption was really what made it: "Will the last person out of Viet Nam please turn off the light and the end of the tunnel?"
Hopitus - 12 Jul 2005 03:31 GMT Uh...Howard...ThorazineCity is over here now and it don't run on *logic*, dude. Join me in the underground bunker and we'll swap hospital stories w/occasional peeks into the 'scope to watch the carnage going on up top.LOL...I've even got a portable dosimeter down there.
>> > Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is >> > wrong. [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > acted fairly, as opposed to some people that contribute nothing but > sound and fury. Howard C. Berkowitz - 12 Jul 2005 04:23 GMT > Uh...Howard...ThorazineCity is over here now and it don't run on *logic*, > dude. Join me in the underground bunker and we'll swap hospital stories > w/occasional peeks into the 'scope to watch the carnage going on up > top.LOL...I've even got a portable dosimeter down there. The good thing about a good slug of Thorazine...say 400mg four times a day...is that it will quiet people and turn them into zombies. The bad thing about a good slug of Thorazine...say 400mg four times a day...is that it will quiet people and turn them into zombies.
It would be my hope that there's a news equivalent of, say, one of the atypical antipsychotics like Seroquel, or a creatively prescribed anticonvulsant, that tends to induce actual sanity.
Apropos of hospital stories, though, did you ever see that collection of things patients shouldn't overhear in radiology, which was in Medical Economics magazine? Referring to looking at a new film after a barium enema, the patient heard "hang him over there" (on the light box). Someone getting a CT of the thyroid ran out screaming when the radiologist asked "can you take a couple of slices through his neck over there?"
Mind you, I've been sort of a third force. I'm in a number of research studies at NIH, many in cardiac imaging. They had me in their brand new cardiac MRI, which was the last time I could get one since I was getting a pacemaker in a week. The software kept crashing on their UNIX workstation, and they just weren't prepared for a patient to ask if he could be let out to help.
I had already confused them by accepting only one earplug. It seemed silly to put one in my totally nerve-deaf ear, but this REALLY confused people.
Philip - 12 Jul 2005 04:36 GMT >> Uh...Howard...ThorazineCity is over here now and it don't run on *logic*, >> dude. Join me in the underground bunker and we'll swap hospital stories [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > silly to put one in my totally nerve-deaf ear, but this REALLY confused > people. True hospital utterances and humor .... I LOVE 'em!
Hopitus - 12 Jul 2005 05:07 GMT Don't think many need anticonvulsant but the quiet zombie thing sounds appealing....."Hulk.....sleeeeepy".
>> Uh...Howard...ThorazineCity is over here now and it don't run on *logic*, >> dude. Join me in the underground bunker and we'll swap hospital stories [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > silly to put one in my totally nerve-deaf ear, but this REALLY confused > people. Debbie Wilson - 12 Jul 2005 09:30 GMT > I had already confused them by accepting only one earplug. It seemed > silly to put one in my totally nerve-deaf ear, but this REALLY confused > people. ROFL!!!! That, I like.
Deb.
 Signature http://www.scientific-art.com
"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield
Melissa Houle - 12 Jul 2005 07:19 GMT > Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong. Just a reminder, Dan's mother has cancer, and last I heard, she was in the hospital in pretty rough condition. Frankly, I totally understand why Dan's putting his mother's welfare ahead of Conan's, right now, no matter what everyone else at RPCH+B thinks. She, after all, is the human being who raised him. I also see why he might want to be with her as much as possible, rather than making a round trip down to San Diego right now. Once his mother's condition improves, THEN Dan may have the time and energy to deliver Conan to his new forever home. Just a thought, perhaps Conan's prospective new owner could make life easier for Dan by driving UP to pick up Conan, instead??? Just a possible solution to resolve this situation once and for all. Dan needs to be at his new job regularly, putting in his best effort and making a good first impression. He's finally got a good job after a long period of bad luck. As much as I love cats, I'd rank a person's livelihood above a cat's welfare when said cat is being fed and cared for in the interim, and good jobs are so hard to get these days. Yes I do want Conan to go to a good forever home, and I'm very glad Charlie Wilkes did NOT get him! But for goodness sakes, CHILL OUT!!!
Conan is out of immediate danger of being euthanized which was the main purpose of the whole rescue. If your heart aches so much for this one cat who is relatively lucky compared to the hundreds of thousands other lonely, frightened cats crammed into overcrowded shelters and in danger of being euthanized themselves, why not go rescue some of THEM? That goes for everyone else who has been screaming "off with his head!" as well. Turn off the computer and go do something constructive for some other cat, since Conan's fate is out of your control for the time being. The energy expended over this whole matter has been phenomenal and appears to have brought out the worst in several people. I'm truly and deeply fed up with it. Sigh...
Melissa
Trish - 12 Jul 2005 11:39 GMT > > Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong. > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > his mother's condition improves, THEN Dan may have the time and energy to > deliver Conan to his new forever home. Just a thought, perhaps Conan's You know not what you speak of.
Philip - 12 Jul 2005 15:47 GMT >>> Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong. >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > You know not what you speak of. You do? Do share, doooo share!
Melissa Houle - 12 Jul 2005 17:11 GMT > Once > > his mother's condition improves, THEN Dan may have the time and energy to > > deliver Conan to his new forever home. Just a thought, perhaps Conan's > > You know not what you speak of. I know enough to stand by what I said. This whole Conan business and the reactions of various people has the awful fascination of a bad road accident. And it has brought out the worst in certain people. Conan is one cat among hundreds of thousands, each of which deserves a loving forever home as much as he does. And Dan's mother IS in the hospital, so I can understand why other matters have taken a backseat for him.
Melissa
Kreisleriana - 12 Jul 2005 15:24 GMT I'm breaking my rule by posting to this thread, but here goes.
Melissa, and others, this stopped being about Conan about a zillion remailed, sock monkey posts ago. This is about an attack on this group. Let's not let them shake us. Let's be like Londoners, and "get on with it."
Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com
Mary - 12 Jul 2005 16:10 GMT > I'm breaking my rule by posting to this thread, but here goes. > > Melissa, and others, this stopped being about Conan about a zillion > remailed, sock monkey posts ago. Bullshit. Don't project your own shallow, self-serving cynicism onto others.
This is about an attack on this
> group. Let's not let them shake us. Let's be like Londoners, and > "get on with it." Right. Like someone posting things you don't want to hear is equivalent to a bombing.
You disgust me.
Philip - 12 Jul 2005 16:25 GMT >> I'm breaking my rule by posting to this thread, but here goes. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Bullshit. Don't project your own shallow, self-serving cynicism > onto others. snip
You do it all the time, Bloody Mary. Don't like the competition?
Howard C. Berkowitz - 12 Jul 2005 17:55 GMT > > I'm breaking my rule by posting to this thread, but here goes. > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Bullshit. Don't project your own shallow, self-serving cynicism > onto others. Tell me, Mary, what is the point of a number of people frequently posting the same arguments on either side? Decisions have been made. Precisely how is repetition going to change anything?
Mary - 12 Jul 2005 23:38 GMT >> > I'm breaking my rule by posting to this thread, but here goes. >> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > posting the same arguments on either side? Decisions have been made. > Precisely how is repetition going to change anything? I don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Howard C. Berkowitz - 13 Jul 2005 02:53 GMT > >> > I'm breaking my rule by posting to this thread, but here goes. > >> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I don't have a clue what you're talking about. Perhaps that is the problem. To try to rephrase, do you think that anyone that has been here any length of time has failed to come to one of the following conclusions:
1. Dan is evil personified 2. They don't have enough facts to know the truth of the matter, and news posts aren't quite validated evidence 3. Dan is an utter hero.
I find it hard to believe that people have reached their opinions, which will not be significantly affected by essentially repeating charges or defenses, or venting anger. Does Bart Simpson's "Are we there yet? Are we there yet?" cause the car to reach the destination more quickly?
Mary - 13 Jul 2005 03:11 GMT From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" <hcb@gettcomm.com> Subject: Re: Dan Mahoney--Get Conan/Dylan Out of Four Paws Kennell Date: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 9:53 PM
In article <42d44639$1_2@x-privat.org>, "Mary" <marys@catlover.com> wrote:
> > In article <42d3dd1b_2@x-privat.org>, "Mary" <marys@catlover.com> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > I don't have a clue what you're talking about. Perhaps that is the problem. To try to rephrase, do you think that anyone that has been here any length of time has failed to come to one of the following conclusions:
1. Dan is evil personified 2. They don't have enough facts to know the truth of the matter, and news posts aren't quite validated evidence 3. Dan is an utter hero.
I find it hard to believe that people have reached their opinions, which will not be significantly affected by essentially repeating charges or defenses, or venting anger. Does Bart Simpson's "Are we there yet? Are we there yet?" cause the car to reach the destination more quickly?
I'm sorry, do I seem angry to you? I am not angry at all. I just want Dan to go and get Conan and take him to one of the people who want him. He has been in a cage for over two weeks. It is very simple. If you are bothered by my comments to this effect, don't read them. Killfile me if you like.
What you will not do is silence me. You have no right to and you have no reason to.
Howard C. Berkowitz - 13 Jul 2005 03:49 GMT > From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" <hcb@gettcomm.com> >is an utter hero. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I'm sorry, do I seem angry to you? I am not angry at all. I said there was anger in posts. I did not say yours seemed especially angry, but I would not find them especially persuasive -- since I simply do not have evidence of what is repeated and repeated.
>I just want > Dan to go and get Conan and take him to one of the people who [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > What you will not do is silence me. You have no right to and you have > no reason to. Indeed, I may not silence you. I have no particular reason to insist on that, although I find your repetition somewhat annoying. You have made brilliant posts that I have enjoyed reading, so I choose not to killfile you unless I become convinced that you will only post on this subject.
Right to silence? Agreed. Right to dissent? Yes. Reason to criticize? My decision, not yours.
Mary - 13 Jul 2005 04:40 GMT >> From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" <hcb@gettcomm.com> >>is an utter hero. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Right to silence? Agreed. Right to dissent? Yes. Reason to criticize? My > decision, not yours. Fair enough.
Howard C. Berkowitz - 13 Jul 2005 05:01 GMT > >> From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" <hcb@gettcomm.com> > >>is an utter hero. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Fair enough. Mary, thank you. I am really not trying to pick a fight. Sometimes, especially in this medium, I find what is realistic is to agree to disagree.
Mary - 13 Jul 2005 05:14 GMT >> >> From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" <hcb@gettcomm.com> >> >>is an utter hero. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Mary, thank you. Your welcome, Howard.
I am really not trying to pick a fight. Sometimes,
> especially in this medium, I find what is realistic is to agree to > disagree. I agree. But when you use terms like "Denial of Service" attacks, among others you used, I must question your objectives.
We will then agree to disagree.
rich - 13 Jul 2005 04:45 GMT > What you will not do is silence me. You have no right to and you have > no reason to. It's true that we have no right to silence you nor would we necessarily want to. But we do a have a reason to - your postings on this subject are not going to have the desired outcome. Due to any combination of the following reasons:
1. Dan is too busy with RL to read your posts. 2. Dan is ignoring you. 3. Dan has killfiled you.
But by all means - as is your right as you stated above - continue banging your head against the wall.
Mary - 13 Jul 2005 04:50 GMT >> What you will not do is silence me. You have no right to and you have >> no reason to. > > It's true that we have no right to silence you nor would we necessarily > want to. But we do a have a reason to - your postings on this subject are > not going to have the desired outcome. That is no reason to attempt to silence me. And in any case, you cannot silence me. What is it to you if I achieve my desired outcomeor not?
Due to any combination of the
> following reasons: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > But by all means - as is your right as you stated above - continue > banging your head against the wall. Thank you for your input. Your concern is heartwarming. I will of course continue to do as I please.
hjfgsgsdgdsfgdf - 12 Jul 2005 22:12 GMT >> I'm breaking my rule by posting to this thread, but here goes. >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >You disgust me.
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