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Dan Mahoney--Get Conan/Dylan Out of Four Paws Kennell

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Mary - 11 Jul 2005 22:23 GMT
Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong.
nbvxdbzdbd - 11 Jul 2005 22:33 GMT
>Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong.
Dan M - 14 Jul 2005 01:12 GMT
>>Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong.

Mary, is that you posting with "nbvxdbzdbd" in the "From" field? If so,
that's pretty chickenshit. Whoever it is, it's pretty chickenshit.

But just to set the record straight, Conan spent about a week in a nice,
roomy enclosure. He's spent the last little while in a house. A nice,
comfy, cat-friendly house. So you're the one who is lieing. He hasn't
spent two weeks in a cage, so you just lied.

Anyhow, my apologies to the good folks of RPCA. I promise, I'm through
talking to Mary and nbvxdbzdbd for today. I'm back to quitely monitoring
and ignoring those who need to be ignored.
Mary - 14 Jul 2005 01:20 GMT
>>>Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> comfy, cat-friendly house. So you're the one who is lieing. He hasn't
> spent two weeks in a cage, so you just lied.

I only post using this email address and this server.

> Anyhow, my apologies to the good folks of RPCA. I promise, I'm through
> talking to Mary and nbvxdbzdbd for today. I'm back to quitely monitoring
> and ignoring those who need to be ignored.

You can ignore everything but the truth.

You are the one who has to look at your face
in the mirror.

If Conan has not been in a cage for two weeks, you
should have said so.
Charlie Wilkes - 14 Jul 2005 20:45 GMT
>>>Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>comfy, cat-friendly house. So you're the one who is lieing. He hasn't
>spent two weeks in a cage, so you just lied.

No, Dan.  She was voicing the default supposition, made because she
lacks the information you have.

Conjecture is not mendacity, Dan.  

I think you need to go back to pre-school for a remedial course in
basic reality.  Up is not down.  Backwards is not forwards.  Saying
you didn't eat the candy when you did eat the candy is not OK, even if
you can dream up a whole list of excuses.

Charlie
Philip - 14 Jul 2005 23:03 GMT
>>>> Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is
>>>> wrong.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Charlie

At the time, Dan thought it better to apologize later than to ask permission
now.  I agree with Dan.
equalizer - 14 Jul 2005 23:23 GMT
>>>>> Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is
>>>>> wrong.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>At the time, Dan thought it better to apologize later than to ask permission
>now.  I agree with Dan.

You put the cat in a kill shelter, and you make sweeping generalizations
about an entire race of people being cat/dog eaters. We've seen your
morals, so the above comes as no surprise to anyone.

eq
Philip - 15 Jul 2005 01:39 GMT
>>>>>> Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is
>>>>>> wrong.
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> eq

You forgot to include that I put children WAY above pets and that I defer to
DVMs for professional medical opinion over your self proclaimed expertise in
the same arena.

I am such a sinner, yes. :^)
Charlie Wilkes - 14 Jul 2005 23:36 GMT
>>>>> Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is
>>>>> wrong.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>At the time, Dan thought it better to apologize later than to ask permission
>now.  I agree with Dan.

He had no need to seek permission, Philip.  That is why his deception
-- a vivid fable, complete with imaginary details -- is so jarring.

As for apologizing, I guess I missed that thread.

Charlie
Christina Websell - 11 Jul 2005 23:17 GMT
> Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong.

Mary, I really like you for your honesty.  When you crossed the great divide
between h&b and rpca it was understood that you would keep to the posting
protocol here.  For a long time, you did, and were made welcome.
This Conan stuff and attacking Dan is going too far for me.
This is how I see it:
Conan was in a kill shelter and was likely to be euthanised if a home was
not found quickly.  An appeal was made for someone to rescue him from the
kill shelter.
So Dan did this.  The cat was not exactly on his doorstep so he put himself
out to get him.
Now the cat is safe.  Maybe not in the ideal circumstances you would want
him to be yet, but he is not going to die now.  Just be grateful that Conan
is now safe and try and be patient about him getting a forever home.  I'm
sure he will soon.
Please chill out about this Mary and have some trust in others.  I would
really hate to have to killfile you.   I will have to if you continually
crosspost and try to stir up rpca.
Please don't make me do it.  You used to send such nice posts here, I loved
to read them.

Tweed
~*LiveLoveLaugh*~ - 11 Jul 2005 23:44 GMT
> > Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Tweed

Very nice post.  But M. already crossed the plonk line.  She has been
warned, and warned and warned.  I would very much like this to go away and
have Mary's fun posts come back to us.

I mean, soooooooooooo many people have let this *consume* them!!

Funny thing about this:  I was ready (yet) another thread about this last
night.  Fabio, my new Chihuahua pet was doing something naughty, so I went
to say "no, Fabio"!...  but since I had freegin' "Conan" on the brain, I
yelled out "CONAN, NO!"

Joe-hubby looked at me and asked, "Who's Conan?  Did you change your puppy's
name???"

Oy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Signature

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      ¸.·´  .·´¨¨))
      Laurie
  ((¸¸.·´  ..·´
    -:¦:-  ((¸¸ ·.·

*~*LiveLoveLaugh*~*    Aloha!!!!!

"There is no remedy for love but to love more"...
~~Henry David Thoreau

Mary - 12 Jul 2005 00:18 GMT
>> "Mary" <marys@catlover.com> wrote in message
> news:42d2e2ed_3@x-privat.org...
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> I mean, soooooooooooo many people have let this *consume* them!!

I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation sessions.
I am concerned about this cat, and I want Dan to do the right thing.
The cat is much more important than any of you--since you can
presumably take care of yourselves.

Use your killfiles. I have no wish to have any contact with anyone
who behaves as you have with regard to this poor cat and Dan's
abusive behavior.
hjkj,j,h,,gh,g - 12 Jul 2005 00:23 GMT
>>> "Mary" <marys@catlover.com> wrote in message
>> news:42d2e2ed_3@x-privat.org...
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>who behaves as you have with regard to this poor cat and Dan's
>abusive behavior.
Gracecat - 12 Jul 2005 01:02 GMT
<hjkj>; <j>; <h>; <gh>; <g> wrote in message
news:vrv5d1h6ghvf71urmdoukpa1eta2bniaoh@4ax.com...

>>>> "Mary" <marys@catlover.com> wrote in message
>>> news:42d2e2ed_3@x-privat.org...
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>>who behaves as you have with regard to this poor cat and Dan's
>>abusive behavior.

I killfiled the Conan group a long time ago for this very reason.

If you want us to killfile you, why bother with changing your headers so we
have to see you? That's just asking for more drama Mary.

Grace
plonking... again...
Christina Websell - 12 Jul 2005 00:53 GMT
>>> "Mary" <marys@catlover.com> wrote in message
>> news:42d2e2ed_3@x-privat.org...
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>
> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation sessions.

Eh??

> I am concerned about this cat, and I want Dan to do the right thing.
> The cat is much more important than any of you--since you can
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> who behaves as you have with regard to this poor cat and Dan's
> abusive behavior.
To post like you did about mutual masturbation in response to posts
here..well.  It's totally out of order, Mary.  Your thinking is skewed.
LISTEN.  Conan is safe thanks to Dan.  He will get a good home soon.  He is
out of the kill shelter.  It doesn't matter if no-one visits him since he
would be dead already at the other place and he doesn't know anyone near
there anyway.  It would not improve his life if Dan went to see him, as he
does not know Dan anyway.
Please calm down.  Conan will get a good home, Mary.

RPCA is a unique group.  We come here to share cat stories and support each
other.
If you cannot keep to this, you will not be welcome.  Don't spoil it by
spilling the cr*p from H&B here.  Like Victor said, this group is special.

Tweed
Trish - 12 Jul 2005 01:43 GMT
> >>> "Mary" <marys@catlover.com> wrote in message
> >> news:42d2e2ed_3@x-privat.org...
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
>
> Tweed

Little yellow school bus special?
Christina Websell - 12 Jul 2005 02:24 GMT
>> >> "Christina Websell" <spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in
> message
[quoted text clipped - 77 lines]
>>
> Little yellow school bus special?

Don't understand.  I'm not American.  I have no idea what this means.
What I *would* say is that if you don't understand what rpca is about, keep
away.
Tweed
Magic Mood Jeep© - 12 Jul 2005 02:37 GMT
>>>>> "Christina Websell" <spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in
>> message
[quoted text clipped - 89 lines]
> about, keep away.
> Tweed
An explanation for you:

Over here in "Merikaland" (where some people fail to see that usenet is on
the     World Wide Web, and that there are people outside of "Merikaland"
that         post here), the school buses are usually yellow with black
stripes & lettering.      The reference to the "little" yellow shcool buses
was, basically, calling us a         bunch of "retards" (or mentally
handicapped if you must be PC), since the         buses that normally take
the handicapped children to their school(s) is             typically only
about 1/2 the length of a "normal" school bus.

Hope that helps you.

On another note, I have plonked all the non-regulars (in RPCA) that have
been cross-psoting their useless diatribe, and am getting ready to plonk
some more (Tweed, CatNipped, Dan & Jill are not among them - the rest of you
will probably know who you are)

Signature

The ONE and ONLY
lefthanded-pathetic-paranoid-psychotic-sarcastic-wiseass-ditzy former-blonde
in Bloomington! (And proud of it, too)©
email me at nalee1964 (at) insightbb (dot) com
http://community.webshots.com/user/mgcmdjeep

Trish - 12 Jul 2005 02:48 GMT
> >>>>> "Christina Websell" <spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in
> >> message
[quoted text clipped - 106 lines]
> some more (Tweed, CatNipped, Dan & Jill are not among them - the rest of you
> will probably know who you are)

hey! i'm not amerikan
Christina Websell - 12 Jul 2005 03:02 GMT
>>>>>> "Christina Websell" <spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in
>>> message
[quoted text clipped - 101 lines]
>
> Hope that helps you.

It did, thank you.  Shocked me a bit that someone would say such a thing.

> On another note, I have plonked all the non-regulars (in RPCA) that have
> been cross-psoting their useless diatribe, and am getting ready to plonk
> some more (Tweed, CatNipped, Dan & Jill are not among them - the rest of
> you will probably know who you are)

I have never plonked so many people into the killfile on rpca as I just did
this last week or so.  It makes me sad.

Tweed
Magic Mood Jeep© - 12 Jul 2005 02:37 GMT
>>>> "Christina Websell" <spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in
> message
[quoted text clipped - 83 lines]
>>
> Little yellow school bus special?

And another one <plonks> the dust
jmcquown - 12 Jul 2005 00:54 GMT
>>> "Mary" <marys@catlover.com> wrote in message
>> news:42d2e2ed_3@x-privat.org...
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> who behaves as you have with regard to this poor cat and Dan's
> abusive behavior.

I don't see what Dan did that is "abusive".  Letting Conan fall into the
hands of that Charlie a.shole would have been abusive.  So, you asked for
it, you got it Mary.  Killfile for you.  Sorry.

Jill
whitershadeofpale - 12 Jul 2005 00:56 GMT
> I don't see what Dan did that is "abusive".  Letting Conan fall into the
> hands of that Charlie a.shole would have been abusive.  So, you asked for
> it, you got it Mary.  Killfile for you.  Sorry.
>
> Jill

Mary's gonna burn your a.s for this!

We have no less then 25 Expendable finger puppets!

Every puppet has it's day!
CatNipped - 12 Jul 2005 02:05 GMT
> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation sessions.
> I am concerned about this cat, and I want Dan to do the right thing.

Mary, I'm concerned about Conan too.  I just don't know what I (or anyone
else) could do to force either Monica or Dan to give Conan to the guy in San
Diego (or anyone else).  I'm also very upset that Conan has to stay in a
kennel instead of a home, I think Monica's rejection of the guy in San Diego
was wrong.  But after all this time I don't think Dan is going to respond to
you, so I don't see how posting repeated pleas to Dan here will change
Conan's situation (Dan probably has you kill-filed so he won't even see your
posts).  If there were anything I *could* do to help Conan, I certainly
would.

> The cat is much more important than any of you--since you can
> presumably take care of yourselves.
>
> Use your killfiles. I have no wish to have any contact with anyone
> who behaves as you have with regard to this poor cat and Dan's
> abusive behavior.

I don't understand this.  What behavior are you talking about?  Do you mean
people asking you to keep this in rpch+b?  I think that's only out of
frustration from some of the vitriol spilling over from the other group, not
out of apathy for Conan's plight.  Again, I don't know of anything we can do
to change Dan's or Monica's stance on this issue.

So what are you suggesting we do?  [Note, this isn't a "challenge" or
sarcasm, just a sincere inquiry from someone else who would like to help
Conan.]

Hugs,

CatNipped
Mary - 12 Jul 2005 02:18 GMT
>> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation sessions.
>> I am concerned about this cat, and I want Dan to do the right thing.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> San
> Diego (or anyone else).

Who said anything about force? That's absurd. Of course you can't--nor
would I want to--force them or anyone to do anything.

I'm also very upset that Conan has to stay in a
> kennel instead of a home, I think Monica's rejection of the guy in San
> Diego
> was wrong.  But after all this time I don't think Dan is going to respond
> to
> you,

If Dan responded to my emails I would not post here.

so I don't see how posting repeated pleas to Dan here will change
> Conan's situation (Dan probably has you kill-filed so he won't even see
> your
> posts).

:) Right.

If there were anything I *could* do to help Conan, I certainly
> would.
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> CatNipped

Lead, follow, or get the f.ck out of the way. The cat is still in a cage.
CatNipped - 12 Jul 2005 02:23 GMT
> >> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation sessions.
> >> I am concerned about this cat, and I want Dan to do the right thing.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> If Dan responded to my emails I would not post here.

Nobody here can make Dan respond to your emails.

> so I don't see how posting repeated pleas to Dan here will change
> > Conan's situation (Dan probably has you kill-filed so he won't even see
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> >
> Lead, follow, or get the f.ck out of the way. The cat is still in a cage.

Yes, he is.  So what can I do to change that?  (Again, I'm being sincere).

Hugs,

CatNipped
~*LiveLoveLaugh*~ - 12 Jul 2005 02:36 GMT
> > >> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation sessions.
> > >> I am concerned about this cat, and I want Dan to do the right thing.
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
>
> Hugs,

What hugs?  No, CN.  No sincerity AT ALL.  You are not being sincere!!  FF's
sake!  You're involving YOUR friends by continuing on and on and on in this
GROUP where YOUR on line friends have BEGGED you to leave H&B and the sh!t
there OUT of this group.  You just will not, and cannot see that you're
hurting yourself, YOUR internet friends, AND the possibility of making real
friends.

I cannot continue to read you, CN.  You're part of the problem.  I was
warned and I didn't listen, but now I am.  I DO THANK YOU for the well
wishes for my mom.

g'bye...  and...

Plonk.

Signature

LLL  :(

Trish - 12 Jul 2005 02:46 GMT
> > > >> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation
> sessions.
[quoted text clipped - 81 lines]
>
> Plonk.

wow i bet God loved that post, the same God you like to thank so often, he's
crying now, another thorn in his crown, another soul lost

shame
shame
shame
bhjkkhgkghk - 12 Jul 2005 03:20 GMT
>> I cannot continue to read you, CN.  You're part of the problem.  I was
>> warned and I didn't listen, but now I am.  I DO THANK YOU for the well
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>shame
>shame
CatNipped - 12 Jul 2005 02:46 GMT
> What hugs?  No, CN.  No sincerity AT ALL.  You are not being sincere!!  FF's
> sake!  You're involving YOUR friends by continuing on and on and on in this
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Plonk.

I'm sorry you feel that way Laurie.  I was never *in* this Conan debate
except for (I think) 3 posts asking for balance and understanding.  I
haven't gone "on and on" about this.  Indeed, the above post was my attempt
to *stop* the cross-posting, not to continue it.  I *was* being sincere in
asking Mary why she was continuing to post here about Conan - what does she
think we can do to change anything - so that she would see that this wasn't
going to get Conan's situation changed.

Hugs,

CatNipped
mklhjkghkghjkf - 12 Jul 2005 03:20 GMT
>> What hugs?  No, CN.  No sincerity AT ALL.  You are not being sincere!!
>FF's
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
>CatNipped
Christina Websell - 12 Jul 2005 02:49 GMT
>> >> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation
>> >> sessions.
[quoted text clipped - 66 lines]
>
> CatNipped

I'm getting sick of this.  The cat is safe from being killed, which was the
whole purpose of the original post, to save him from euthanasia.
He might have to sit out in a cage for a while.  For goodness sake he is
still here and alive!  He will get a home eventually.  Have you all
forgotten that HE IS NOW SAFE?  Pffff.
Let's just trust the folks that have him will find him a forever home and
hope he will get one soon.

Tweed
CatNipped - 12 Jul 2005 02:56 GMT
> >> >> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation
> >> >> sessions.
[quoted text clipped - 76 lines]
>
> Tweed

I'm sorry Tweed.  Obviously I wasn't clear enough in what I was trying to
do.  I was hoping that with my questions Mary would see that there is
nothing we can to - no matter how much she posts about Conan here - to
change the situation, so hopefully we could stop this crossposting.

There are obviously a number of people now posting here who do not like it
here.  I'm at a loss as to why they're reading here in light of that, but
asking them to stop is not working so...

OK, I'm ducking and running now - I don't want to get embroiled any further.

Hugs,

CatNipped
Philip - 12 Jul 2005 03:58 GMT
In news:3jgm2mFpvvg3U1@individual.net,
<spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk>Christina Websell stated
unanimously:

>>>>> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual
>>>>> masturbation
[quoted text clipped - 99 lines]
>
> Tweed

Yours has been my creed from the day Conan was readopted.  But
the Drama Queens (male and female alike) live for every new twist
Mary and her Minions come up with.
l;l.,,ghfgmfgmf - 12 Jul 2005 02:29 GMT
>>> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation sessions.
>>> I am concerned about this cat, and I want Dan to do the right thing.
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
>>
>Lead, follow, or get the f.ck out of the way. The cat is still in a cage.
jmcquown - 12 Jul 2005 03:58 GMT
l wrote:

>>>> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation
>>>> sessions. I am concerned about this cat, and I want Dan to do the
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
>> Lead, follow, or get the f.ck out of the way. The cat is still in a
>> cage.

Which is where all the intruders to rpca from h+b should be!  Quit obsessing
over Conan.  Hello!  There are LOTS of cats (and dogs) in cages, being fed,
given water, medical treatment... welcome to real life.  Get the hell over
it and stop disrupting this group!

Jill
Mary - 12 Jul 2005 06:05 GMT
>l wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
> given water, medical treatment... welcome to real life.  Get the hell over
> it and stop disrupting this group!

This is a Usenet group, Jill. Unmoderated. Grow some self control.
Mischief - 12 Jul 2005 06:23 GMT
look who's talking
Mischief - 12 Jul 2005 06:27 GMT
you say get some self control, yet you keep posting these threads
bashing Dan.  A lot of people want to just move on, so why don't you do
the same?
Mary - 12 Jul 2005 06:29 GMT
> you say get some self control, yet you keep posting these threads
> bashing Dan.  A lot of people want to just move on, so why don't you do
> the same?

Because there is a cat I care about who is still homeless because of Dan.

Dan must be held accountable.

You do remember that you are supposed to be one of those people
who like cats, right?

You might also consider mastering your newseader.
Mischief - 12 Jul 2005 07:18 GMT
>>To whom are you replying?

Uh, you're the one to said to get some self control, and from what I've
been able to piece together, having you say that is redundant.

>>mastering your newseader??

Wish I knew what you were talking about.  I don't even know how to
killfile anyone on Google and it doesn't seem like I can.  I hate what
is happening here, and I've kept myself out of this until now, and
really I'm just confused on why people are still beating this subject
to death?

Yes I do like cats, but I also know when to pick and choose my battles.
I care about every animal that I see in the clinic and I can't save
all of them.  I've gone to countless shelters and realized that I can't
help all of them either.  I've seen cats and dogs put down on a weekly
basis, and some because their owners don't care and yes I want to hold
them accountable.  I've had owners lie to my face about the health care
of their animal and I can't do a thing about it.   But I do know one
thing.  That bitching and trashing talking and in this case, flaming,
does absolutely NOTHING to help the situation.  If anything it helps
you vent, but after a while, even that gets old, especially to the
people around you and brings everything and everybody down.

If Dan is to be held accountable; then he'll get what is coming to him.
Actually I haven't had a chance to hear his side of the story because
it appears that so many people are assuming their own endings.  If so
many people are convinced that you are lying, what good is it for you
to say your piece if everyone has already made up their minds about
you?  If he truly lied, then personally I want to hear it from Dan
himself.  If he doesn't do anything, yes I will be disappointed and
confused for a bit, but I will still MOVE ON.   Personally I like his
stories, and hope to hear more of them.  If I were in your shoes I
might also be angry.  You have every right to feel upset and betrayed,
and I probably would feel the same, but it still results in one thing;
I can either sit and stew in my own feelings about something that
really ticks me off and that I can't really do anything about, or I try
to move on and focus on more important things in life.

Do I know what really has gone on?  No I don't.  Do I really care?  Not
really, since it sounds like Conan seems to be okay.  In a cage is not
ideal, but can I do anything about that?  No.  I hate it too, but I
can't do anything, and I don't think you can either. I like this group
mainly because of the mutual love for telling stories, especially about
cats.   That's why I came and posted in the first place, because people
like my stories, respect my comments and overall treat me like a friend
and no one here has even met me.  I remember once in a posting someone
flamed me and yes I was offended and hurt, but I got over it.

I'm just saying that yes this whole this is horrible and has gotten out
of hand and what not, but the cruel fact remains, there's isn't
anything we can do at the moment, so either sit and beat a dead horse
or move on to the next issue/battle/fight/subject or whatever.

Okay that's my piece.  Time to move on to the funny cat stories that
make me laugh.

Kristi
klhjlghklgh - 12 Jul 2005 09:41 GMT
>> you say get some self control, yet you keep posting these threads
>> bashing Dan.  A lot of people want to just move on, so why don't you do
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>You might also consider mastering your newseader.
Philip - 12 Jul 2005 15:47 GMT
>> you say get some self control, yet you keep posting these threads
>> bashing Dan.  A lot of people want to just move on, so why don't you do
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> You might also consider mastering your newseader.

Blood Mary ... there is no one in this forum that wishes you any less than a
hard drive failure or a lightening strike.
ghgfngfhfggfn - 12 Jul 2005 22:10 GMT
>>> you say get some self control, yet you keep posting these threads
>>> bashing Dan.  A lot of people want to just move on, so why don't you do
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Blood Mary ... there is no one in this forum that wishes you any less than a
>hard drive failure or a lightening strike.

Actually, there's far more people wishing for your pacemaker to
quit.....
Mary - 12 Jul 2005 06:29 GMT
> look who's talking

To whom are you replying?
Howard C. Berkowitz - 12 Jul 2005 06:29 GMT
> This is a Usenet group, Jill. Unmoderated. Grow some self control.

I tend to call it a newsgroup, as I used news long before there was
Usenet.  In the eighties, it wasn't easy to get access to news, and,
when you did, it took a good deal more technical skill to use it.

One thing that was characteristic of those times, however, is that
people, first in professional and then in social and recreational
groups, used either their real names, or, if their local system enforced
something strange, there was no mystery. There was a sense of virtual
communities, even though the actual technical mechanisms underlying news
distribution (UUCP bilateral agreements) was nearly anarchical -- as is
IP routing in the general Internet.

When people are known, their reputations become important. Now, the
reputations would differ with the newsgroup -- I remember one
well-respected professor of linguistics, who also described himself as a
radical queer leather sadist with a cigar fetish, discussed in
non-linguistic groups. People made allowances, as I managed to tolerate
a person with a cigar fetish.

There wasn't a lot of flaming, because what people said made a real
difference. That didn't mean they met often -- I developed some real
friendships, but it was years before I met people in person. At
networking conferences, name tags often had email addresses in larger
fonts than the regular names -- more people probably knew me at !cos!hcb
than as Howard Berkowitz.

I haven't counted recently, but I must subscribe to at least 40 or 50
professional and social mailing lists. Very few are moderated, but peer
pressure very quickly stops flame wars.

So I ask the people that say "It's only Usenet," who benefits from
hostility and anarchy? News groups were once quite flame free. Is it
Shaw that wrote, "Some look at things as they are and say, "why?".
Others look at things that have never been, and say, "why not?""

The question, I suppose, is whether each individual benefits by
anonymous flaming and confrontation. YMMV.   For the record, I can't
think of a newsgroup or mailing list where my identity isn't known. Oh,
there have been a few times I've taken a pseudonym that everyone knew --
such as the leader of the Penguin Liberation Front in a discussion of
the Falklands.

A woman friend once challenged me to find out what it was like to have a
female persona in a chat room, and, indeed, it was enlightening. Now,
some men did this but not well, and there were often a few questions
that almost any man who had been married could answer (e.g., pantyhose
sizes). It was amusing, however, when someone asked me about pelvic
exams.

I've been instructed in such things and have done limited ones under
supervision by a wise gynecologist. At some point in my answer, after I
had removed the carefully selected Graves or Pedersen speculum, and went
on to the bimanual examination, my friend chat-whispered, "_I_ don't
know that...I just close my eyes and wait for it to be over."

Again, YMMV.
Mary - 12 Jul 2005 06:46 GMT
>> This is a Usenet group, Jill. Unmoderated. Grow some self control.
>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> The question, I suppose, is whether each individual benefits by
> anonymous flaming and confrontation. YMMV.

This is about a little red cat for whom several of us arranged a rescue from
a kill shelter and several potential homes. Dan Mahoney offered to go and
get him and take him to his new home. He then lied to us, said he did not
have him, allowed Monica Towle to turn down all the good homes, and
the cat has been in a cage for over two weeks since Dan got him from
the shelter. Are you reading me, Howard? I have flamed nobody.
In this instance I have merely told the truth and asked Dan for answers,
which he will not give me. My heart hurts for this little cat, and I feel
betrayed by Dan. He has possession of the cat--in the sense that
he took him to the kennel where he has languished for two weeks.
All I want is for Dan to do what he said he was going to do--if
not the homes we arranged, then another home.

I am upset about this. I gave to Dan's Harri vet fund, like
everyone else. I trusted him. He betrayed that trust and is
not even person enough to own up to it, so that is not an issue.
But Conan/Dylan/Sunny IS still a an issue.

In this case this group is being brutally unfair to this little
cat--because nobody must tarnish Dan's reputation. When
in fact only Dan has injured his reputation by betraying the
trust of several people and harming this little cat's chance of
having a home.

For the record, I can't
> think of a newsgroup or mailing list where my identity isn't known. Oh,
> there have been a few times I've taken a pseudonym that everyone knew --
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Again, YMMV.
Howard C. Berkowitz - 12 Jul 2005 07:18 GMT
> >> This is a Usenet group, Jill. Unmoderated. Grow some self control.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> > distribution (UUCP bilateral agreements) was nearly anarchical -- as is
> > IP routing in the general Internet.

> > I haven't counted recently, but I must subscribe to at least 40 or 50
> > professional and social mailing lists. Very few are moderated, but peer
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> from
> a kill shelter and several potential homes.

It is indeed about that. It is also about conduct in a virtual community.

>Dan Mahoney offered to go and
> get him and take him to his new home. He then lied to us, said he did not
> have him, allowed Monica Towle to turn down all the good homes, and
> the cat has been in a cage for over two weeks since Dan got him from
> the shelter. Are you reading me, Howard? I have flamed nobody.

May I observe I said "flaming and confrontation"?  Flamed no, confronted
repeatedly.

> In this instance I have merely told the truth and asked Dan for answers,
> which he will not give me.

And your actual experience should have demonstrated now, whatever the
facts of the matter, that Dan is not going to answer.

> My heart hurts for this little cat, and I feel
> betrayed by Dan. He has possession of the cat--in the sense that
> he took him to the kennel where he has languished for two weeks

> All I want is for Dan to do what he said he was going to do--if
> not the homes we arranged, then another home.

It's entirely probable he has killfiled you. He certainly has
demonstrated that he isn't going to answer you.

> I am upset about this. I gave to Dan's Harri vet fund, like
> everyone else. I trusted him. He betrayed that trust and is
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> In this case this group is being brutally unfair to this little
> cat--because nobody must tarnish Dan's reputation.

I have my own opinions, which I do not intend to share. Nevertheless, I
don't see your actions as tarnishing his reputation or not. Your points
have been made, and people will take them as they will.

Ever read the "Rime of the Ancient Mariner"?  Was there a benefit to the
mariner spending his life telling all he had shot the albatross?

>When
> in fact only Dan has injured his reputation by betraying the
> trust of several people and harming this little cat's chance of
> having a home.

From my perspective, there were allegations from both sides. I don't
know the truth of the matter, and I'm not going to go to California to
find out. I might be biased slightly, based on the history I've given,
to people who use their real names. In this case, however, I really
don't know the truth of the matter.

I'd really like to know if Secretary of War Stanton was part of a
conspiracy to kill Lincoln, but I accept I never will know. Even when
all the records are unsealed, we won't really know if Oswald acted
alone. I don't agonize over these things.

Perhaps more to the point, I've been in situations where I did all I
could to help the health of a two- or four-legged person, and I know I
did. Somewhere along the line, playing what-if is not a useful exercise.

Chatterley (RB) declined over a couple of years, probably from a
slow-growing brain tumor. She needed more and more nursing care,
grooming, etc., but I could clearly tell she was happy. One day, at
about 1PM, she collapsed. She couldn't walk, but she actually played a
bit and gobbled tuna until about 5 or 6 PM, when she started having
convulsions. They frightened her, and I could examine her well enough to
believe it was likely she was dying.  There was an intense ice storm
outside, and even if I could have gotten through it, she hated cars and
I wouldn't have wanted that to be her last memory. I did check through
the injectable drugs I had available, but there was nothing appropriate
for sedation or euthanasia.

She made it very clear that she wanted to be close to me, and I held her
and soothed her through the next three hours or so, as she pressed
against me.  One convulsion was especially strong, as she lay in my
arms, and she seemed to relax, then stopped breathing. The stethoscope
confirmed her heart had stopped.

Should I have euthanized her sometime earlier? I don't think so. She
could no longer use the litter box, but as long as I kept her clean, she
was happy and even playful. Yes, if I had an appropriate drug, I
probably would have given it to her in the last 3 or 4 hours.  Under the
circumstances, I did the best I could, and I think she died happy.

Less happy was my mother's final illness, when breast cancer
chemotherapy was rather new. For various odd reasons, I had wound up in
the not ideal position of giving her most medical news, and getting the
details first from the staff. She had called me saying the nurses were
annoying her, wanting to give her IVs "to build up her strength".  
Puzzled, I called several of the staff to find out what was going on,
and found that the IVs were intended to reverse a reaction she was
having to a new drug.  The doctors were mixed about whether they should
or not, because, if untreated, this reaction would cause her to go to
sleep and not wake up, within 48-72 hours.

The point was that she was still a conscious adult, and no one had been
willing to tell her the truth and let her make a decision. They wanted
me to make it for her, but I felt she was still alert enough to discuss
the situation. Complicating the situation was that there was one
remaining treatment, with about a 30% chance of helping her.

I told her that I would support any choice she made, but it needed to be
her choice. She chose to take the immediate treatment and then the one
last drug, which didn't work. She died very, very badly, having
transferred to a hospital that wouldn't respect a DNR or even do decent
terminal care (this was a veterans' hospital in 1975).

If I had been in her position, I probably would have elected the gentle
death of hypercalcemia, knowing that no cure was possible. Still, I
think I made the best choice among undesirable alternatives.

I suspect that different people here see different alternatives in
different ways.
jffgjfgjfgjfgj - 12 Jul 2005 09:42 GMT
>>> This is a Usenet group, Jill. Unmoderated. Grow some self control.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 80 lines]
>>
>> Again, YMMV.
hjjm,ghjnj - 12 Jul 2005 09:35 GMT
>>l wrote:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
>
>This is a Usenet group, Jill. Unmoderated. Grow some self control.
Philip - 12 Jul 2005 15:47 GMT
> This is a Usenet group, Jill. Unmoderated. Grow some self control.

Take your own advice, Bloody Mary.
Steve Touchstone - 12 Jul 2005 05:29 GMT
<snip>
>If Dan responded to my emails I would not post here.

So, has he responded to you here?!?! If he has I must have missed it -
the vast majority of reponses I see from the regulars in this group
are simply asking you to stop dragging this matter into this once
peaceful group. What do you think you're accomplishing by harrassing
this group as a whole by ignoring repeated requests to take this back
to the other group? If he hasn't responded in the other group, hasn't
responded to your emails, and hasn't responded in this group, I
imagine you've been placed in his killfile.

Which is where I'm placing now  - PLONK
Signature

Steve Touchstone,
faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Spot
with loving memories of Rocky (RB)

stouchst@JUNKsirinet.net [remove Junk for email]
Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html
Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html

Mary - 12 Jul 2005 05:32 GMT
> <snip>
>>If Dan responded to my emails I would not post here.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> this group as a whole by ignoring repeated requests to take this back
> to the other group?

Have a little self control. Nobody forces any of you to read any post.
This is an unmoderated group, and my posts are on-topic. You don't
want to hear what I have to say? Don't read me.

If he hasn't responded in the other group, hasn't
> responded to your emails, and hasn't responded in this group, I
> imagine you've been placed in his killfile.
>
> Which is where I'm placing now  - PLONK

Well, there you go. Now if you could learn to do it without
squealing first.
vbfhhdfhdfh - 12 Jul 2005 09:43 GMT
>> <snip>
>>>If Dan responded to my emails I would not post here.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>Well, there you go. Now if you could learn to do it without
>squealing first.
Philip - 12 Jul 2005 02:53 GMT
>> I'm so sorry to interfere with everyone's mutual masturbation
>> sessions.
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>
> CatNipped

You should all pile into an old school bus painted up with hippy
peace symbols and motor out to Charlie's place.  When you arrive,
you all lock yourselves inside his single wide and smoke a kilo
with all the windows closed.  Don't come out until you're
finished.

LOL
Karen - 12 Jul 2005 00:22 GMT
>> "Mary" <marys@catlover.com> wrote in message
> news:42d2e2ed_3@x-privat.org...
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> Oy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

ROFL!!!
Howard C. Berkowitz - 12 Jul 2005 03:02 GMT
> > Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is
> > wrong.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> loved
> to read them.

Let me echo Tweed's position. You have made excellent, sensitive
contributions on RPCA. For that reason, I don't want to killfile you, as
I already have several of the apparent RPCH+B people that aren't
regularly here.

Whatever the reality of what has happened to Conan, there is no way that
it's going to get a definitive answer here. The matter has degenerated
to he-said-she-said, with all the positions quite clear. What can
possibly be achieved by continued attacks on Dan, even if he's totally
evil?

Let me offer an observation.  I briefly subscribed to RPCH+B, but very
quickly dropped it. Why did I do so?  I'll try to answer indirectly.
When I post here on a medical/veterinary matter, I think you have seen
that I try to make a point of explaining the rationale, in scientific
terms but written for understandability.  There have been times, in
responding to specific questions, that I've gone down to the molecular
or genetic level in giving background.  There are other times where I
will give references, especially when I'm extrapolating from human
medicine.

Frankly, I am delighted when someone points out a possible error or
alternative. Sometimes, that is a good challenge to think of why my
approach is substantiated. Other times, I will learn something. I
suppose it's typical of someone trained in the sciences or engineering
-- constructive criticism is part of life, and you benefit by it.

There were times, however, where someone considered "authoritative" on
H+B made some posts about a laboratory diagnostic technique or specific
pharmacology. I was told I was wrong, which isn't a big thing, if
someone gives me a good analysis of why I was wrong. In the cases I ran
into, I kept getting from the now-opponent "because I have lots of
experience with cats".  The issue happened to be laboratory diagnosis of
renal failure. When I made the observation that creatinine, by itself,
doesn't give the full picture, and gave, for example, the
Cockcroft-Gault equation for estimating creatinine clearance --
creatinine clearance rate is one of the things you really wanted to
know, he blew that away and kept talking about my lack of experience.

Sorry. When I respond with something out of any standard medical
biochemistry or physiology textbook, and discuss the reasons why we need
to look at least at creatinine, creatinine clearance, BUN, and possibly
other measurements such as sodium, I expect a response at an equivalent
level -- or at least be told I am wrong, and the poster is Professor of
Physiology at UC Davis Veterinary School.

But just throwing accusations back and forth, in that case, proved
nothing. I found a couple of posters that instantly would challenge any
medical/scientific post I made, with no facts but much venom.  

This has been roundabout, but I don't need that venom in my life. It's
pointless. I hope that I don't lose your valued posts, where you have
acted fairly, as opposed to some people that contribute nothing but
sound and fury.
Rhonda - 12 Jul 2005 03:21 GMT
Howard,

I know who you bumped heads with. I remember that encounter and
respected you for the way you kept trying to discuss the issues, while
the person in question resulted to personal attacks and multiple "lol's".

The group isn't bad, but there are some feisty people. Sometimes fluffy
is good, sometimes feisty is good... I think a mix is nice.

Anyway, I wanted to tell you I appreciated your posts and intelligence.
Hope any inflated egos don't keep you away forever.

Rhonda

> There were times, however, where someone considered "authoritative" on
> H+B made some posts about a laboratory diagnostic technique or specific
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> creatinine clearance rate is one of the things you really wanted to
> know, he blew that away and kept talking about my lack of experience.
Mary - 12 Jul 2005 03:27 GMT
> Howard,
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Anyway, I wanted to tell you I appreciated your posts and intelligence.
> Hope any inflated egos don't keep you away forever.

Howard has a wonderful knowledge base, great patience in explaining things
to those of us who know much less, and a wickedly funny sense of humor.
I look for his posts.
Howard C. Berkowitz - 12 Jul 2005 04:17 GMT
> > Howard,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> > in
> > question resulted to personal attacks and multiple "lol's".

I didn't know the group well enough to tell if there was a point to
continuing trying to clarify some biochemistry he, not to be evasive,
had completely wrong. It didn't seem as if others were particularly
interested in the subject.

There are probably some sites around that have decent explanations, but,
if explained carefully, the biochemistry and physiology of renal failure
is both fascinating and turns out to be logical. Once you have the
picture of what is going on, you start to see why certain drugs work.  
What I'd like to know is how much success veterinarians are having in
protecting cats with drugs called ACE (angiotensin-II converting enzyme)
inhibitors, and a related class of angiotensin-II receptor blockers
(ARB). These are working quite well in controlling early renal damage in
humans, and are even prescribed as preventives for people at high risk.  
Some evidence in people suggest low-dose aspirin also may be protective,
but that's more controversial.

> > The group isn't bad, but there are some feisty people. Sometimes fluffy
> > is
> > good, sometimes feisty is good... I think a mix is nice.
> >
> > Anyway, I wanted to tell you I appreciated your posts and intelligence.
> > Hope any inflated egos don't keep you away forever.

As I remember, it seemed as if that individual had a claque -- not a
clique, but a term from opera for paid applauders in the audience. In
that case, IIRC, people were morphing userids to avoid killfiles. There
are groups where I deal with obnoxious people, but, in what? using news
since about 1986, I have never encountered such frenzy. Well...maybe
with some radical male or female supremacists...

It simply didn't seem worth the effort, since there was some health
discussion here. I didn't stay on H+B long enough to see if there were
people discussing cat health at a more detailed level.

I'm exploring alt.med.veterinary, which is low traffic. I'd be delighted
to go to H+B if it wasn't a constant battle, but my recollection is it
tended to be like the crossposts of political activists into some
military science groups -- but worse.

> Howard has a wonderful knowledge base, great patience in explaining
> things
> to those of us who know much less, and a wickedly funny sense of humor.
> I look for his posts.

Mary, I often look for yours, but I'm wincing in this current...dare I
use a favorite term of opposition politicians...quagmire. I really hope
I don't need to killfile, but with the Conan matter, I'm thinking of an
old editorial cartoon.

IIRC, it was Herblock in the Washington Post, in the early seventies.
The caption was really what made it: "Will the last person out of Viet
Nam please turn off the light and the end of the tunnel?"
Hopitus - 12 Jul 2005 03:31 GMT
Uh...Howard...ThorazineCity is over here now and it don't run on *logic*,
dude. Join me in the underground bunker and we'll swap hospital stories
w/occasional peeks into the 'scope to watch the carnage going on up
top.LOL...I've even got a portable dosimeter down there.

>> > Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is
>> > wrong.
[quoted text clipped - 77 lines]
> acted fairly, as opposed to some people that contribute nothing but
> sound and fury.
Howard C. Berkowitz - 12 Jul 2005 04:23 GMT
> Uh...Howard...ThorazineCity is over here now and it don't run on *logic*,
> dude. Join me in the underground bunker and we'll swap hospital stories
> w/occasional peeks into the 'scope to watch the carnage going on up
> top.LOL...I've even got a portable dosimeter down there.

The good thing about a good slug of Thorazine...say 400mg four times a
day...is that it will quiet people and turn them into zombies. The bad
thing about a good slug of Thorazine...say 400mg four times a day...is
that it will quiet people and turn them into zombies.

It would be my hope that there's a news equivalent of, say, one of the
atypical antipsychotics like Seroquel, or a creatively prescribed
anticonvulsant, that tends to induce actual sanity.

Apropos of hospital stories, though, did you ever see that collection of
things patients shouldn't overhear in radiology, which was in Medical
Economics magazine?  Referring to looking at a new film after a barium
enema, the patient heard "hang him over there" (on the light box).  
Someone getting a CT of the thyroid ran out screaming when the
radiologist asked "can you take a couple of slices through his neck over
there?"

Mind you, I've been sort of a third force. I'm in a number of research
studies at NIH, many in cardiac imaging. They had me in their brand new
cardiac MRI, which was the last time I could get one since I was getting
a pacemaker in a week. The software kept crashing on their UNIX
workstation, and they just weren't prepared for a patient to ask if he
could be let out to help.

I had already confused them by accepting only one earplug. It seemed
silly to put one in my totally nerve-deaf ear, but this REALLY confused
people.
Philip - 12 Jul 2005 04:36 GMT
>> Uh...Howard...ThorazineCity is over here now and it don't run on *logic*,
>> dude. Join me in the underground bunker and we'll swap hospital stories
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> silly to put one in my totally nerve-deaf ear, but this REALLY confused
> people.

True hospital utterances and humor .... I LOVE 'em!
Hopitus - 12 Jul 2005 05:07 GMT
Don't think many need anticonvulsant but the quiet zombie thing sounds
appealing....."Hulk.....sleeeeepy".

>> Uh...Howard...ThorazineCity is over here now and it don't run on *logic*,
>> dude. Join me in the underground bunker and we'll swap hospital stories
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> silly to put one in my totally nerve-deaf ear, but this REALLY confused
> people.
Debbie Wilson - 12 Jul 2005 09:30 GMT
> I had already confused them by accepting only one earplug. It seemed
> silly to put one in my totally nerve-deaf ear, but this REALLY confused
> people.

ROFL!!!! That, I like.

Deb.
Signature

http://www.scientific-art.com

"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

Melissa Houle - 12 Jul 2005 07:19 GMT
> Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong.

Just a reminder, Dan's mother has cancer, and last I heard, she was in the
hospital in pretty rough condition. Frankly, I totally understand why Dan's
putting his mother's welfare ahead of Conan's, right now, no matter what
everyone else at RPCH+B  thinks. She, after all, is the human being who
raised him.  I also see why he might want to be with her as much as
possible, rather than making a round trip down to San Diego right now. Once
his mother's condition improves, THEN Dan may have the time and energy to
deliver Conan to his new forever home.  Just  a thought, perhaps Conan's
prospective new owner could make life easier for Dan by driving UP to pick
up Conan, instead??? Just a possible solution to resolve this situation once
and for all.  Dan needs to be at his new job  regularly, putting in his best
effort and making a good first impression. He's finally got a good job after
a long period of bad luck. As much as I love cats, I'd rank a person's
livelihood above a cat's welfare when said cat is being fed and cared for in
the interim, and good jobs are so hard to get these days. Yes I do want
Conan to go to a good forever home, and I'm very glad Charlie Wilkes did NOT
get him! But for goodness sakes, CHILL OUT!!!

   Conan is out of immediate danger of being euthanized which was the main
purpose of the whole rescue.   If your heart aches so much for this one cat
who is relatively lucky compared to the hundreds of  thousands other lonely,
frightened cats crammed into overcrowded shelters and in danger of being
euthanized themselves, why not go rescue some  of THEM? That goes for
everyone else who has been screaming "off with his head!" as well. Turn off
the computer and go do something constructive for some other cat, since
Conan's fate is out of your control for the time being. The energy expended
over this whole matter has been phenomenal and appears to have brought out
the worst in several people. I'm truly and deeply fed up with it.  Sigh...

Melissa
Trish - 12 Jul 2005 11:39 GMT
> > Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> his mother's condition improves, THEN Dan may have the time and energy to
> deliver Conan to his new forever home.  Just  a thought, perhaps Conan's

You know not what you speak of.
Philip - 12 Jul 2005 15:47 GMT
>>> Just do it. It has been two solid weeks now, and you know that is wrong.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> You know not what you speak of.

You do?  Do share, doooo share!
Melissa Houle - 12 Jul 2005 17:11 GMT
> Once
> > his mother's condition improves, THEN Dan may have the time and energy to
> > deliver Conan to his new forever home.  Just  a thought, perhaps Conan's
>
> You know not what you speak of.

I know enough to stand by what I said. This whole Conan business and the
reactions of various people has the awful fascination of a bad road
accident. And it has brought out the worst in certain people. Conan is one
cat among hundreds of thousands, each of which deserves a loving forever
home as much as he does. And Dan's mother IS in the hospital, so I can
understand why other matters have taken a backseat for him.

Melissa
Kreisleriana - 12 Jul 2005 15:24 GMT
I'm breaking my rule by posting to this thread, but here goes.

Melissa, and others, this stopped being about Conan about a zillion
remailed, sock monkey posts ago.  This is about an attack on this
group.  Let's not let them shake us.  Let's be like Londoners, and
"get on with it."

Theresa
Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh
My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com
Mary - 12 Jul 2005 16:10 GMT
> I'm breaking my rule by posting to this thread, but here goes.
>
> Melissa, and others, this stopped being about Conan about a zillion
> remailed, sock monkey posts ago.

Bullshit. Don't project your own shallow, self-serving cynicism
onto others.

This is about an attack on this
> group.  Let's not let them shake us.  Let's be like Londoners, and
> "get on with it."

Right. Like someone posting things you don't want to hear is
equivalent to a bombing.

You disgust me.
Philip - 12 Jul 2005 16:25 GMT
>> I'm breaking my rule by posting to this thread, but here goes.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Bullshit. Don't project your own shallow, self-serving cynicism
> onto others.
snip

You do it all the time, Bloody Mary.  Don't like the competition?
Howard C. Berkowitz - 12 Jul 2005 17:55 GMT
> > I'm breaking my rule by posting to this thread, but here goes.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Bullshit. Don't project your own shallow, self-serving cynicism
> onto others.

Tell me, Mary, what is the point of a number of people frequently
posting the same arguments on either side?  Decisions have been made.
Precisely how is repetition going to change anything?
Mary - 12 Jul 2005 23:38 GMT
>> > I'm breaking my rule by posting to this thread, but here goes.
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> posting the same arguments on either side?  Decisions have been made.
> Precisely how is repetition going to change anything?

I don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Howard C. Berkowitz - 13 Jul 2005 02:53 GMT
> >> > I'm breaking my rule by posting to this thread, but here goes.
> >> >
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Perhaps that is the problem. To try to rephrase, do you think that
anyone that has been here any length of time has failed to come to one
of the following conclusions:

  1. Dan is evil personified
  2. They don't have enough facts to know the truth of the matter,
     and news posts aren't quite validated evidence
  3. Dan is an utter hero.

I find it hard to believe that people have reached their opinions, which
will not be significantly affected by essentially repeating charges or
defenses, or venting anger.  Does Bart Simpson's "Are we there yet? Are
we there yet?" cause the car to reach the destination more quickly?
Mary - 13 Jul 2005 03:11 GMT
From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" <hcb@gettcomm.com>
Subject: Re: Dan Mahoney--Get Conan/Dylan Out of Four Paws Kennell
Date: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 9:53 PM

In article <42d44639$1_2@x-privat.org>, "Mary" <marys@catlover.com>
wrote:

> > In article <42d3dd1b_2@x-privat.org>, "Mary" <marys@catlover.com>
> > wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Perhaps that is the problem. To try to rephrase, do you think that
anyone that has been here any length of time has failed to come to one
of the following conclusions:

  1. Dan is evil personified
  2. They don't have enough facts to know the truth of the matter,
     and news posts aren't quite validated evidence
  3. Dan is an utter hero.

I find it hard to believe that people have reached their opinions, which
will not be significantly affected by essentially repeating charges or
defenses, or venting anger.  Does Bart Simpson's "Are we there yet? Are
we there yet?" cause the car to reach the destination more quickly?

I'm sorry, do I seem angry to you? I am not angry at all. I just want
Dan to go and get Conan and take him to one of the people who
want him. He has been in a cage for over two weeks. It is very simple.
If you are bothered by my comments to this effect, don't read them.
Killfile me if you like.

What you will not do is silence me. You have no right to and you have
no reason to.
Howard C. Berkowitz - 13 Jul 2005 03:49 GMT
> From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" <hcb@gettcomm.com>
>is an utter hero.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> I'm sorry, do I seem angry to you? I am not angry at all.

I said there was anger in posts. I did not say yours seemed especially
angry, but I would not find them especially persuasive -- since I simply
do not have evidence of what is repeated and repeated.

>I just want
> Dan to go and get Conan and take him to one of the people who
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> What you will not do is silence me. You have no right to and you have
> no reason to.

Indeed, I may not silence you. I have no particular reason to insist on
that, although I find your repetition somewhat annoying. You have made
brilliant posts that I have enjoyed reading, so I choose not to killfile
you unless I become convinced that you will only post on this subject.

Right to silence? Agreed. Right to dissent? Yes. Reason to criticize? My
decision, not yours.
Mary - 13 Jul 2005 04:40 GMT
>> From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" <hcb@gettcomm.com>
>>is an utter hero.
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> Right to silence? Agreed. Right to dissent? Yes. Reason to criticize? My
> decision, not yours.

Fair enough.
Howard C. Berkowitz - 13 Jul 2005 05:01 GMT
> >> From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" <hcb@gettcomm.com>
> >>is an utter hero.
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> Fair enough.

Mary, thank you. I am really not trying to pick a fight.  Sometimes,
especially in this medium, I find what is realistic is to agree to
disagree.
Mary - 13 Jul 2005 05:14 GMT
>> >> From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" <hcb@gettcomm.com>
>> >>is an utter hero.
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> Mary, thank you.

Your welcome, Howard.

I am really not trying to pick a fight.  Sometimes,
> especially in this medium, I find what is realistic is to agree to
> disagree.

I agree. But when you use terms like "Denial of Service" attacks,
among others you used, I must question your objectives.

We will then agree to disagree.
rich - 13 Jul 2005 04:45 GMT
> What you will not do is silence me. You have no right to and you have
> no reason to.

It's true that we have no right to silence you nor would we necessarily
want to. But we do a have a reason to - your postings on this subject
are not going to have the desired outcome. Due to any combination of the
following reasons:

1. Dan is too busy with RL to read your posts.
2. Dan is ignoring you.
3. Dan has killfiled you.

But by all means -  as is your right as you stated above - continue
banging your head against the wall.
Mary - 13 Jul 2005 04:50 GMT
>> What you will not do is silence me. You have no right to and you have
>> no reason to.
>
> It's true that we have no right to silence you nor would we necessarily
> want to. But we do a have a reason to - your postings on this subject are
> not going to have the desired outcome.

That is no reason to attempt to silence me. And in any case, you cannot
silence me. What is it to you if I achieve my desired outcomeor not?

Due to any combination of the
> following reasons:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> But by all means -  as is your right as you stated above - continue
> banging your head against the wall.

Thank you for your input. Your concern is heartwarming.
I will of course continue to do as I please.
hjfgsgsdgdsfgdf - 12 Jul 2005 22:12 GMT
>> I'm breaking my rule by posting to this thread, but here goes.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>You disgust me.
 
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