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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / June 2005Harry update #3: still positive news
Just got off the phone with Nancy, who just got off the phone with the vet. Harri is still breathing easily, and the fluid has not reached a danger level again yet. I didn't hear a definitive answer as to the makeup of the fluid that was on Harri's chest - I didn't tell Nancy that we definitely wanted to know these things. I'll find out late today. The vet said that Harri's coagulation rate is very poor. This leads him to believe that Harri got into rat poisin. We have none here at the house, so it would have have to have happened while whe was on the road with me. I was really careful about Harri not even sniffing around powders or crystals or anything of that sort, but I wonder if any of the bugs or lizards she ate might have been exposed to warfarin? Anyhow, the vet is administering vitamin K and drugs to help restore he coagulation function. If this proves to be the case, then Nancy and I will have to administer vitamin K to Harri once she gets home. We can deal with that! Harri will be with the specialist for another night, but I'm even more hopeful now. Dan > Just got off the phone with Nancy, who just got off the phone with the > vet. Harri is still breathing easily, and the fluid has not reached a [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Dan My two will keep purring until Harri is home and well. > The vet said that Harri's coagulation rate is very poor. This leads him to > believe that Harri got into rat poisin. We have none here at the house, so [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Dan Dan, I know you said that you don't have any rat poison around the house. However, have you seen any mice? If so, it's possible Harri caught a mouse that had already ingested a slower-acting poison (from the neighbors or elsewhere). It's great to hear that Harri has continued to improve. MaryL > I know you said that you don't have any rat poison around the house. > However, have you seen any mice? If so, it's possible Harri caught a mouse [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > MaryL I hadn't thought of that - I have seen a couple of mice in the two years we've been here so that's a possibility. > Just got off the phone with Nancy, who just got off the phone with the > vet. Harri is still breathing easily, and the fluid has not reached a [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Dan Good news! I just paypal'd some funds to Victor to help with Harri (or any other cat that needs it). I know I lamented about the lack of funds this late in the month, but I just had a item sell on eBay for more than I thought it would. Not much more, but a bit.  SignatureThe ONE and ONLY lefthanded-pathetic-paranoid-psychotic-sarcastic-wiseass-ditzy former-blonde in Bloomington! (And proud of it, too)© email me at nalee1964 (at) insightbb (dot) com http://community.webshots.com/user/mgcmdjeep Continued good vibes for Harri helen s > Just got off the phone with Nancy, who just got off the phone with the > vet. Harri is still breathing easily, and the fluid has not reached a > danger level again yet. Good! > I didn't hear a definitive answer as to the makeup of the fluid that was > on Harri's chest - I didn't tell Nancy that we definitely wanted to know > these things. I'll find out late today. > > The vet said that Harri's coagulation rate is very poor. This leads him > to believe that Harri got into rat poisin. Oh no. >We have none here at the > house, so it would have have to have happened while whe was on the road > with me. I was really careful about Harri not even sniffing around > powders or crystals or anything of that sort, but I wonder if any of the > bugs or lizards she ate might have been exposed to warfarin? It certainly seems possible. It's dangerous out there. > Anyhow, the vet is administering vitamin K and drugs to help restore he > coagulation function. If this proves to be the case, then Nancy and I > will have to administer vitamin K to Harri once she gets home. We can > deal with that! Harri will be with the specialist for another night, but > I'm even more hopeful now. I will keep you in my prayers, Dan, and Harri and Nancy too. Hopeful news.... I thought it had been a while since you took her on any trip where she could have been exposed to poison? Also curious how come you call her Harry sometimes and Harri other times? Still sending our best recovery purrs.... Please keep us posted. > Hopeful news.... I thought it had been a while since you took her on any > trip where she could have been exposed to poison? Also curious how come you > call her Harry sometimes and Harri other times? Still sending our best > recovery purrs.... Please keep us posted. About the name - I only call her Harry when I'm REALLY tired and confused :) I kick myself when I do that. The last time Harri was on the truck with me was a couple of months ago, so if that is indeed the case then it has been working on her for a long time. I did do a thorough walkthrough of the back yard this morning just to be sure, and am going to do so again a little alter today. I also did a thorough search of our cabinets and drawers and verified that we do not have any such chemicals anywhere in the house. > Hopeful news.... I thought it had been a while since you took her on any > trip where she could have been exposed to poison? Also curious how come you > call her Harry sometimes and Harri other times? Still sending our best > recovery purrs.... Please keep us posted. Indeed, I wonder if you shouldn't do a thorough search of your backyard and make sure no one mean threw something over the fence. It's not unheard of. It would be worth a thorough examination of the yard anyway. > Indeed, I wonder if you shouldn't do a thorough search of your backyard and > make sure no one mean threw something over the fence. It's not unheard of. > It would be worth a thorough examination of the yard anyway. Done! As soon as I got off the phone with Nancy I was out in the back yard doing a really thorough inspection. And I plan to so again in an hour or two when the sun angle has changed a bit. And I think it helps that our sprinkler system runs for 30 minutes in the wee hours of every weekday. I think that would help to dissipate any such poisons that anyone might have placed in the yard. I sincerly hope that nobody has deliberately tried to poison my babies. I have the potential for some really bad temper fits, but keep it tightly in check when I'm around people I care about. If someone tried to deliberately hurt my babies I would pretty much have to hurt them badly. > I have the potential for some really bad temper fits, but keep it tightly > in check when I'm around people I care about. If someone tried to > deliberately hurt my babies I would pretty much have to hurt them badly. No!! Don't do that (and I hope you were just "blowing off steam" here). If you did injure someone, you could immediately be charged with a criminal offense -- and how would that leave Nancy and your furbabies? If you did find evidence of anyone trying to hurt your babies, *call the police* instead of trying to take care of it yourself. MaryL > Just got off the phone with Nancy, who just got off the phone with the > vet. Harri is still breathing easily, and the fluid has not reached a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > powders or crystals or anything of that sort, but I wonder if any of the > bugs or lizards she ate might have been exposed to warfarin? That's a fascinating theory that could be right on. There's no particular reason for coagulation problems if it's chylothorax. Depending on the specific coagulation profile -- you'd want at least prothrombin and partial thromboplastin times, the more it matches warfarin, the better. I have to go out to a medical appointment very shortly, but, if you like, I'll pull references and find the specific diagnostic criteria for warfarin. I _think_ there's a chapter in the Handbook of Commercial Toxicology. I'm doing this partially from memory, but warfarin (also known as Coumadin) was originally found in some contaminate cattle food. The name is actually a partial acronym for Wisconsin Agricultural Research Foundation, whose veterinarians diagnosed the anticoagulant property in cattle, and then realized they actually might have a useful drug -- and were right. This is awfully off the wall, but I wonder if the conditions that produced warfarin in nature could have occurred in some decomposing grass she decided to eat. > Anyhow, the vet is administering vitamin K and drugs to help restore he > coagulation function. If this proves to be the case, then Nancy and I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Dan > This is awfully off the wall, but I wonder if the conditions that > produced warfarin in nature could have occurred in some decomposing > grass she decided to eat. Hmmm... that's an interesting possibility. I'll talk to the vet about it. I'll be sure to ask also about the prothrombin and partial thromboplastin times. Thank you so much for the technical info, Howard! While it's written for veterinarians, there is a very good guide on anticoagulant poisoning in cats and dogs at http://www.liphatech.com/vetguide.html. In particular, it deals with the wide range of synthetic alternatives to warfarin as a rodenticide. Beyond the basic coagulation tests prothrombin time partial thromboplatin time platelet count it identifies some specialized tests that specifically identify anticoagulant rodenticides, although the tests are available only from specialized laboratories -- I'd imagine UC Davis certainly can do it. I forgot to mention is that a good lab reports, with the prothrombin time, an Internationalized Normal Ratio (INR). This corrects for variations in the particular batch of chemicals used for the actual test. On deliberate warfarin therapy in humans, the INR should be between 2 and 3, as close to 2.5 as possible. If it goes above 3, the dose needs to be reduced. I did find one article about warfarin therapy in cats that allows the INR to reach 4. Certainly, above 4 is suggestive of poisoning. Another informative test might be creatine phosphokinase (CK or CPK). Muscle cells are rich in this enzyme. There is a specific subfraction (CK-MB) that shows damage to heart muscle. If the total CK is high but the CK-MB is normal, that would be very suggestive that she suffered trauma. >Just got off the phone with Nancy, who just got off the phone with the >vet. Harri is still breathing easily, and the fluid has not reached a [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Dan {{{{{Dan}}}}} I am so glad to hear this. I worried all last night about Harri, and sent out some furious prayers to Bast. Will continue those prayers. We need a miracle right now, and I think Harri just *has* to be it! Ginger-lyn Home Pages: http://www.spiritrealm.com/summer/ http://www.angelfire.com/folk/glsummer (homepage & cats) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~summer/index.htm (genealogy) http://www.movieanimals.bravehost.com/ (The Violence Against Animals in Movies Website) > Anyhow, the vet is administering vitamin K and drugs to help restore he > coagulation function. If this proves to be the case, then Nancy and I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Dan I'm hopeful with you. Harri is such a dear, adventuresome little cat--she simply has to pull through! The signs sound good so far, though. My Three are still on High Purr Alert (Code Orange.) Melissa > Just got off the phone with Nancy, who just got off the phone with the > vet. Harri is still breathing easily, and the fluid has not reached a [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Dan That is the rotten thing about pesticides, they can affect animals that eat affected bugs. If the K works then she can probably work it out of her system and THAT is better news than if it was some condition that was dorment in her system. I've just been so worried about her. Keeping up purrs. That's good news. I am always worried about stuff bug sprays in my home. When I am not home, I confine Rusty in his room with only his ltter box and food, and some old newspapers. Other times I keep an eagle eye on him. If I can't see him, I go in search of him. I won't even walk on grass for fear of tracking some harmful pesticide home. Call me paranoid. Winnie > Just got off the phone with Nancy, who just got off the phone with the > vet. Harri is still breathing easily, and the fluid has not reached a [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Dan > deal with that! Harri will be with the specialist for another night, but > I'm even more hopeful now. These are excellent news! We'll keep purring for Harri and for you and Nancy. This morning when Basho and I were having a love-fest, I told him to focus his purrs on a brave orange cat named Harri. He looked at me in the eyes and closed his. :) I think that meant "you got it daddy!". Victor >Just got off the phone with Nancy, who just got off the phone with the >vet. Harri is still breathing easily, and the fluid has not reached a >danger level again yet. <snip> >I didn't hear a definitive answer as to the makeup of the fluid that was >on Harri's chest - I didn't tell Nancy that we definitely wanted to know >these things. I'll find out late today. Sounds very hopeful to me, and continuing purrs that she improves quickly. Hope the vit K does the trick. As to the warfarin, I suppose something like that could happen pretty much anywhere, maybe even second hand by eating/chewing on seomthing already dead. Anyway, the important news is that she seems to be responding to the treatment, not relapsing. SignatureSteve Touchstone, faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and the Evil Spot with loving memories of Rocky (RB) stouchst@JUNKsirinet.net [remove Junk for email] Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html > Just got off the phone with Nancy, who just got off the phone with the > vet. Harri is still breathing easily, and the fluid has not reached a [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Dan Well, as bad as that sounds, if it's rat poison then that's actually good news since it's something they can treat and then she'll be well again instead of this being an ongoing problem for her. Tons of purrs still heading your way for little Harri! Hugs, CatNipped > The vet said that Harri's coagulation rate is very poor. This leads him to > believe that Harri got into rat poisin. We have none here at the house, so > it would have have to have happened while whe was on the road with me. I > was really careful about Harri not even sniffing around powders or > crystals or anything of that sort, but I wonder if any of the bugs or > lizards she ate might have been exposed to warfarin? OMG warfarin. That is some seriously nasty stuff. Dan, I'm so sorry about little Harri. I'll ask the owners to continue to purr for her to recover fully and pray for her. She's such a sweet and gallant little girl. Pam S. who's asking the owners to Purr for Dan and Nancy as well Sounds like there's reason to hope. I'm glad and will keep Spicey on purrpatrol. Suz&Spicey |
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