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Harri Roadcat update #2 - reason to hope

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Dan M - 23 Jun 2005 04:08 GMT
Sorry to keep everybody waiting, but we just got home. We spent several
hours at the specialist, and just now got home (8 PM).

The specialist determined that Harri had a lot of fluid in her chest. He
drained it, finding 103 ml of liquid (quite a lot to be inside a little
kitten's chest). The liquid was milky with some blood in it. He sent a
sample out to the lab to determine where it's coming from.

When they did an ultrasound they also saw a mass in front of Harri's
heart. The doc couldn't tell what it was, just that it is heavily
vascularized. He says it could be normal tissue that is just swollen due
the fluids.

It's still not at all certain whether Harri will survive this, but at
least we hav ereason to hope. When we picked Harri up from the vet about
noon she was more talkative than she has been in weeks. She was still
breathing heavily, but nearly as bad as she was yesterday. And after the
specialist drained the fluid from her chest this afternoon her breathing
cleared up. It was very encouraging to see her as vocal and active as
she on our drive to Orange County. It made me feel much better about her
chances.

I should be able to find out what's going on about 9:00 AM tomorrow. The
problem could be her heart, it could be a leaking thoracic duct (don't
know what that is, but that's what the vet said, more or less), or it
could be something else. It is unlikely she will need a chest tube as
the first vet thought.

So, Harri still needs lots of purrs and prayers, but her situation is
more hopeful than it was before.

I'll keep everybody posted as I learn more.

Dan
CatNipped - 23 Jun 2005 04:21 GMT
> Sorry to keep everybody waiting, but we just got home. We spent several
> hours at the specialist, and just now got home (8 PM).
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> Dan

Dan, on rpch+b Candace posted about her cat Abbey having Chylothorax - it
sounds a lot like what you're describing about Harri.  If you're up to it
you might want to do a google search on it for information to bring to the
vet.  We're still purring intensely for Harri's recovery.

Hugs,

CatNipped
Howard C. Berkowitz - 23 Jun 2005 05:48 GMT
> > Sorry to keep everybody waiting, but we just got home. We spent several
> > hours at the specialist, and just now got home (8 PM).
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> you might want to do a google search on it for information to bring to the
> vet.  We're still purring intensely for Harri's recovery.

Yes, chylothorax is one of the forms of pleural effusion. It's discussed
on both links I posted in this thread.
Candace - 23 Jun 2005 06:52 GMT
> Dan, on rpch+b Candace posted about her cat Abbey having Chylothorax - it
> sounds a lot like what you're describing about Harri.  If you're up to it
> you might want to do a google search on it for information to bring to the
> vet.  We're still purring intensely for Harri's recovery.

Dan, that is correct what CN says.  My cat, Abbey, aged 4, also has
chylothorax.  She was diagnosed on 5/5.  I seldom post here to rpca but
post a lot to rpchb.  There are 2 threads, entitled, "My cat has a
grave prognosois-chylothorax," and "Abbey's ultrasound/no good news"
from the last month or so.  There is much helpful info in there
particularly from Phil P.

Abbey is still with us although her breathing is irregular and fast.
It varies a lot and is almost normal when she is asleep.
Unfortunately, Abbey apparently has damage to her lungs called
fibrosing pleuritis which occurred because she apparently had the chyle
in her pleural cavity for quite awhile prior to diagnosis and that
scars the lungs.  I never noticed any symptoms with her until the day I
came home and she was breathing hard.  This makes her prognosis far
worse than if her lungs were not so badly scarred.  She has had 2
thoracenteses but may not be able to have anymore because her
ultrasound showed that her fluid is accumulating in small pockets
rather than all in one area (due to the scarring).  Hopefully, this is
not the case with Harri.

I still have some hope for Abbey, that the chylo will be under control.
It has been almost 4 weeks since her last draining.  If it is
controlled, she may live although with very diminished lung capacity.
She is on lasix twice a day and rutin which the literature says may
help.  It's obtainable from health food stores.  Abbey is very hard to
pill and I've tried all the tricks.  I'm pretty good at pilling but not
her.  She has somehow gotten all her lasix doses so far but the rutin
is another story.  She gets *some* rutin everyday but not the
recommended dose.  If Harri is easy to pill that will help.

Abbey has a suspicious mass at the base of her heart that may be
especially thick lung scarring or it may be a tumor.  It is in a place
where they can't do a needle biopsy and she is not a surgical candidate
because of her lung damage.  My vet also said that if a chest tube were
an option for her, that would be something for which she would remain
hospitalized the whole time, not something she would go home with.
There was not really a cause determined for Abbey's chylo.  Her heart
is functioning normally.  If she does, indeed, have a heart tumor, that
is another story.  Many cases of chylo never have a determined cause
and are, therefore, idiopathic.  It can resolve spontaneously, which is
what I hope for Abbey.

I try to take one day at a time because I guess that's really all
anyone has, right now.  I monitor her respiration rate a lot.  She gets
up to 60 when active, in the 40s while sleeping.

Abbey had a hard time recovering from her thoracenteses (2 of them).
It took about a week each time before she started acting normal and
eating.  If Harri is acting normal already, that's good.

I have read many of your posts about the Roadcat and loved them.  She
sounds so darling.  Abbey has many, many people praying for her
recovery and I know Harri does, too.  Count me among them.

Candace
Candace - 23 Jun 2005 07:00 GMT
> Dan, that is correct what CN says.  My cat, Abbey, aged 4, also has
> chylothorax.  She was diagnosed on 5/5.

I'm sorry, I read a little more carefully and I see that chylothorax is
not a definitive diagnosis with Harri although if it is a leaking
thoraic duct, that would be it.  Also chyle is as you describe the
fluid removed from Harri, a milky white tinged with pink.

Sorry to act as though she is already diagnosed.

Candace
Dan M - 23 Jun 2005 16:47 GMT
> I'm sorry, I read a little more carefully and I see that chylothorax is
> not a definitive diagnosis with Harri although if it is a leaking
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Candace

That's ok, Candance. The vet couldn't say definitively what she has
until he gets the lab analysis of the fluid, but I'll be really
surprised if it turns out to be something other than chylothorax.

Dan
Yowie - 23 Jun 2005 07:37 GMT
> > Dan, on rpch+b Candace posted about her cat Abbey having Chylothorax - it
> > sounds a lot like what you're describing about Harri.  If you're up to it
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
> sounds so darling.  Abbey has many, many people praying for her
> recovery and I know Harri does, too.  Count me among them.

Purrs for Abbey, too.

Yowie
Yoj - 23 Jun 2005 08:15 GMT
> > > Dan, on rpch+b Candace posted about her cat Abbey having Chylothorax -
> it
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
>
> Yowie

Purrs and prayers for Abbey and Candice added to those for Harri, Dan and
family.

Joy
Adrian - 23 Jun 2005 08:24 GMT
<snip>
> Abbey had a hard time recovering from her thoracenteses (2 of them).
> It took about a week each time before she started acting normal and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Candace

Purrs for Abbey, too.
Signature

Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera)
A house is not a home, without a cat.

CatNipped - 23 Jun 2005 13:50 GMT
> > Dan, on rpch+b Candace posted about her cat Abbey having Chylothorax - it
> > sounds a lot like what you're describing about Harri.  If you're up to it
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
>
> Candace

I was just going to post in rpch+b to see how Abbey was doing - I'm glad
she's still hanging tough!  I think about her often and we're still sending
purr and purr-ayers that she pulls through all this.  She's young and that
often helps give them the strength to fight.

Hugs,

CatNipped
Marina - 23 Jun 2005 15:33 GMT
> I have read many of your posts about the Roadcat and loved them.  She
> sounds so darling.  Abbey has many, many people praying for her
> recovery and I know Harri does, too.  Count me among them.

And we will be purring for Abbey, too.

Signature

Marina, Frank and Miranda. In loving memory of Nikki.
marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Dan M - 23 Jun 2005 16:48 GMT
>> I have read many of your posts about the Roadcat and loved them.  She
>> sounds so darling.  Abbey has many, many people praying for her
>> recovery and I know Harri does, too.  Count me among them.
>
> And we will be purring for Abbey, too.

I'll second that.

Dan
Dan M - 23 Jun 2005 16:45 GMT
Thank you for the infomation! When I read Catnipped's message I went
right away and looked up chylothorax and it does indeed sound like what
the vet was describing. Your info and the info Howard B posted helped a
lot. It helps me to deal with what's going on when I have a decent
understanding of it. I guess that's the engineering training in my
background.

It's now 8:44 AM here in CA, and the vet said I should give him a call
about 9:00 AM. I hope to have more news (hopefully good news) in about
15 minutes.

Dan

>>Dan, on rpch+b Candace posted about her cat Abbey having Chylothorax - it
>>sounds a lot like what you're describing about Harri.  If you're up to it
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
>
> Candace
Karen AKA Kajikit - 23 Jun 2005 17:24 GMT
>Thank you for the infomation! When I read Catnipped's message I went
>right away and looked up chylothorax and it does indeed sound like what
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>about 9:00 AM. I hope to have more news (hopefully good news) in about
>15 minutes.

Many many MANY prayers for poor little Harri...

Signature

~Karen aka Kajikit
Crafts, cats, and chocolate - the three essentials of life
http://www.kajikitscorner.com

polonca12000 - 23 Jun 2005 23:00 GMT
Lots of purrs and best wishes for Abbey,
Signature

Polonca & Soncek

> Dan, that is correct what CN says.  My cat, Abbey, aged 4, also has
> chylothorax.  She was diagnosed on 5/5.  <snip>
Seanette Blaylock - 24 Jun 2005 03:05 GMT
"Candace" <maccandace@aol.com> had some very interesting things to say
about Re: Harri Roadcat update #2 - reason to hope:

>I still have some hope for Abbey, that the chylo will be under control.
> It has been almost 4 weeks since her last draining.  If it is
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>is another story.  She gets *some* rutin everyday but not the
>recommended dose.  If Harri is easy to pill that will help.

May I suggest trying to get Abbey's medication in liquid format? I've
always had better luck getting liquid medicines into a cat than
getting a pill down his/her throat (especially with my current owner,
Felix).

Signature

"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be
doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding.

:-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL
CatNipped - 24 Jun 2005 03:25 GMT
> "Candace" <maccandace@aol.com> had some very interesting things to say
> about Re: Harri Roadcat update #2 - reason to hope:
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> getting a pill down his/her throat (especially with my current owner,
> Felix).

Really?  I have just the opposite experience - I can "pill" all my cats
easily, but they spit the liquid out all over me and then foam at the mouth
so I never know how much has really gone down!

Hugs,

CatNipped

> :-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL
Seanette Blaylock - 24 Jun 2005 03:47 GMT
"CatNipped" <lcrews@houston.rr.com> had some very interesting things
to say about Re: Harri Roadcat update #2 - reason to hope:

>> May I suggest trying to get Abbey's medication in liquid format? I've
>> always had better luck getting liquid medicines into a cat than
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>easily, but they spit the liquid out all over me and then foam at the mouth
>so I never know how much has really gone down!

Hmmmm. I've had cats for a large percentage of the last nearly 36
years (birthday coming up in a couple of months), and I've always
found it a major struggle to give pills and liquids have been a lot
easier. Maybe Texas cats have different opinions from
Oregon/California cats. :-)

Signature

"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be
doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding.

:-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL
CatNipped - 24 Jun 2005 03:54 GMT
> "CatNipped" <lcrews@houston.rr.com> had some very interesting things
> to say about Re: Harri Roadcat update #2 - reason to hope:
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> easier. Maybe Texas cats have different opinions from
> Oregon/California cats. :-)

LOL, I doubt that - I think catness transcends state lines.  I think it's
just that there just the *one* pill to get down their throat, but there's
usually *lots* of liquid and more chance for them to spit it back at me.
And when the pill gets down there that's it, it's down, but when just *some*
of the liquid gets down, but *most* of it ends up on my blouse, I'm always
unsure that they're getting what they need.  Ah well, different strokes and
all that jazz!  ;>

Hugs,

CatNipped

> :-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL
Mischief - 23 Jun 2005 04:22 GMT
PURRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSS!!!!!

Thank goodness that she's made it through this much!!!

and Purrs that she will get much better as time goes on

Purrs from Imp, Mischief and yes, Mayhem

Kristi
Marina - 23 Jun 2005 04:39 GMT
> So, Harri still needs lots of purrs and prayers, but her situation is
> more hopeful than it was before.
>
> I'll keep everybody posted as I learn more.

Dan, so glad to read this more hopeful post than the last one. We are
still purring hard for sweet Harri.

Signature

Marina, Frank and Miranda. In loving memory of Nikki.
marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Karen - 23 Jun 2005 05:05 GMT
> Sorry to keep everybody waiting, but we just got home. We spent several
> hours at the specialist, and just now got home (8 PM).
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> Dan

Continued intensive purrs.
badwilson - 23 Jun 2005 05:12 GMT
Oh wow, it sounds serious, but I'm glad there's reason to hope.  Purrs
continuing steadily until she is back to 100%
--
Britta
"There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast." -- Unknown
Check out pictures of Vino at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

> Sorry to keep everybody waiting, but we just got home. We spent
> several hours at the specialist, and just now got home (8 PM).
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> least we hav ereason to hope. When we picked Harri up from the vet
> about noon she was more talkative than she has been in weeks. She
was
> still breathing heavily, but nearly as bad as she was yesterday. And
> after the specialist drained the fluid from her chest this afternoon
> her breathing cleared up. It was very encouraging to see her as
vocal
> and active as she on our drive to Orange County. It made me feel
much
> better about her chances.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Dan
Howard C. Berkowitz - 23 Jun 2005 05:47 GMT
> Sorry to keep everybody waiting, but we just got home. We spent several
> hours at the specialist, and just now got home (8 PM).

We've been busily sending purrs and healing thoughts.

> The specialist determined that Harri had a lot of fluid in her chest. He
> drained it, finding 103 ml of liquid (quite a lot to be inside a little
> kitten's chest). The liquid was milky with some blood in it. He sent a
> sample out to the lab to determine where it's coming from.

Good. If he was able to drain that much, there's a decent chance of
reinflating the lungs without a chest tube, if the fluid stays under
control. Even an additional thoracentesis (the draining procedure) is
less stressful than chest tubes.

From some quick research, it appears that it is less likely to be a
classical pneumonia than a pleural effusion, which is a secretion of
fluid from the tissue that surrounds the lung cavity. Pleural effusions
have many potential causes, including bacterial and fungal infections,
tumors, and inefficient heart pumping.

Only from the description of the fluid, it's suggestive of a condition
still getting a lot of research, feline chylothorax.  In about 50% of
these cases, the cause is never known, but the patient can recover.
Trauma is a common cause -- had she pretty much been in your sight, or
might she have fallen?

Early and aggressive treatment, which you are doing, is important to
prevent permanent changes.  One reference is
http://www.pethealthcare.net/html/body_feline_chylothorax.html. A more
technical one is at
http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2004&PID=8765&O=G
eneric

I don't mean to say that chest tubes are terribly painful or stressful
-- I've had them myself.  On the other hand, I knew the function and
wouldn't fight them. I had pictured Harri having to be unconscious,
intubated, and with a chest tube on either side. This is enormously
better than what I was suspecting. The literature I read suggests that
it may be necessary, in the early stages, to suture in a chest drain,
which is much less invasive than a full chest tube.

> When they did an ultrasound they also saw a mass in front of Harri's
> heart. The doc couldn't tell what it was, just that it is heavily
> vascularized. He says it could be normal tissue that is just swollen due
> the fluids.

That's fair. Until the fluid from the chest is analyzed, the care needs
to be supportive. Once there's an analysis, much more specific treatment
can be planned. Additional ultrasounds will give a decent basis of
comparison, and they are far less stressful than an X-ray or CT where
the patient has to lie still. I don't know if it's generally allowed or
that an exception was made for my experience, but I've been with
Clifford or Chatterley whenever they had ultrasounds, and I was able to
control their movements gently, with no restraints or sedation.

The early treatment appears critical. Surgery, if indicated, would
probably be after a couple of weeks, and may not be necessary at all.

> It's still not at all certain whether Harri will survive this, but at
> least we hav ereason to hope. When we picked Harri up from the vet about
> noon she was more talkative than she has been in weeks.

That she can talk AT ALL is a very good sign.

>She was still
> breathing heavily, but nearly as bad as she was yesterday. And after the
> specialist drained the fluid from her chest this afternoon her breathing
> cleared up. It was very encouraging to see her as vocal and active as
> she on our drive to Orange County. It made me feel much better about her
> chances.

That is extremely good news.

> I should be able to find out what's going on about 9:00 AM tomorrow. The
> problem could be her heart, it could be a leaking thoracic duct (don't
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Dan
Sam Nash - 23 Jun 2005 06:01 GMT
> Sorry to keep everybody waiting, but we just got home. We spent several
> hours at the specialist, and just now got home (8 PM).
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> Dan

Purrs continuing for Harri.
Sam
Melissa Houle - 23 Jun 2005 06:30 GMT
> Sorry to keep everybody waiting, but we just got home. We spent several
> hours at the specialist, and just now got home (8 PM).
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> Dan

Purring hard for Harri's complete recovery, Dan.  But I'm glad she's feeling
a bit more herself, and was more alert today than yesterday.  Alas, June has
brought me some expenses I wasn't expecting, or I would have helped with the
bill.  But I can definitely tell my three to keep up the purr engines.

Melissa
Exocat - 23 Jun 2005 07:09 GMT
Continuing hi-powered purrs for Harri, and Dan's finances etc. as well.

She just HAS to get through this!

Gordon & the TT

> Sorry to keep everybody waiting, but we just got home. We spent
> several hours at the specialist, and just now got home (8 PM).
Gabey8 - 23 Jun 2005 07:22 GMT
We're still sending every kind of prayer, purr, and good thought imaginable
that Harri will pull through this crisis and be just fine.

We're sending Harri's Paw and Meowmy some "hang in there" purrs, too.

Donna, Captain (PURRRRR PURRRRR PURRRRR) and Stanley (prrrrfff prrrrrfff
prrrrfff)
Yoj - 23 Jun 2005 08:15 GMT
You must be exhausted!  Purrs and prayers will continue.  Thanks for letting
us know.  I'm so glad the prognosis is hopeful.

Joy

> Sorry to keep everybody waiting, but we just got home. We spent several
> hours at the specialist, and just now got home (8 PM).
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> Dan
Adrian - 23 Jun 2005 08:19 GMT
<snip>
> So, Harri still needs lots of purrs and prayers, but her situation is
> more hopeful than it was before.
>
> I'll keep everybody posted as I learn more.
>
> Dan

Continuing deep rumbly purrs.
Signature

Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera)
A house is not a home, without a cat.

Victor Martinez - 23 Jun 2005 12:02 GMT
> So, Harri still needs lots of purrs and prayers, but her situation is
> more hopeful than it was before.

We'll keep purring for her, she is a brave little soldier, I'm sure
she'll pull through.

Signature

Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov
Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com

Christine Burel - 23 Jun 2005 16:16 GMT
Yours is the first post I've seen since I've been offline recently, Dan --
huge purrs for poor Harri -- I had no idea.  Please know we're thinking of
you.
Christine
> Sorry to keep everybody waiting, but we just got home. We spent several
> hours at the specialist, and just now got home (8 PM).
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> Dan
W. Leong - 23 Jun 2005 21:52 GMT
Christine,

How is Omar doing? Haven't seen you posted about his condition.
Please keep us updated.
Rusty is still purring for him and Harri .

Winnie

> Yours is the first post I've seen since I've been offline recently, Dan --
> huge purrs for poor Harri -- I had no idea.  Please know we're thinking of
> you.
> Christine
polonca12000 - 23 Jun 2005 22:56 GMT
Poor Harri and poor you!
Lots and lots of purrs and best wishes for Harri to recover completely and
really soon. We are thinking of you,
Signature

Polonca & Soncek

> Sorry to keep everybody waiting, but we just got home. We spent several
> hours at the specialist, and just now got home (8 PM).
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> Dan
 
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