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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / May 2005Ranger kitten progress
Though the last week has been rather stressful, it has also been refreshing. Through the doctor visits and car crash and insurance battles, I've been able to come home and spend time with Nancy and the kitties. Harri has been making fantastic progress. She now gets along fine with everybody, including Ranger. Harri likes to hop into the bathtub to relax, as it's nice and cool. Ranger has taken to joining her there, and they are able to not snarl and wrestle as soon as Ranger jumps in. Ranger is still a tiny, tiny little thing. Though she's been here for two weeks, she's still just 8 weeks old. The folks Nancy rescued her from took her away from mom-cat way too early, but our other kitties have been a good job of teaching her the things she needed to learn from momcat. Ranger seems to chosen Samuel as her favorite play-buddy. It is quite amusing to see a little grey ball of fluff that hardly comes up to Sammy's chest run at him and attack. But gentle Sam, being the gentlecat that he is, puts up with it. Ranger is also quite a snuggler. The nights that I stay up after Nancy goes to bed, Ranger climbs up on me and we finger wrestle. After she gets tired of that she smurgles my right earlobe. Always the right one, never the left. And unlike Samuel, she makes slurping and smacking noises while she smurgles. Nothing like hearing a little tiny kitten purring loudly while sucking and slurping on your ear! When she gets tired of my earlobe, or when it finally becomes too ticklish for me to stand any more, she moves on to sucking on my right eyelid. That feels very strange. Finally, when I can't stand any more smurgling anywhere on my face she will lie down in my arms and smurgle on the inside of my elbow or the bottom of the sleeve of my t-shirt. She is suck a sloppy little kitten that within minutes the hem of my t-shirt is soaked with kittem slobber. Quite messy, but quite adorable too. Finally, when she's all smurgled out, she just lies her head down and goes to sleep. If I squirm or fidget too much she will give me a very agrieved "meeeeeeeew" that translates roughly as "I wa sleeping!". I'd say that Nancy picked well. > Though the last week has been rather stressful, it has also been > refreshing. Through the doctor visits and car crash and insurance [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > I'd say that Nancy picked well. How nice!! It has to just about make up for all the trouble that is keeping you home :) > Though the last week has been rather stressful, it has also been > refreshing. Through the doctor visits and car crash and insurance [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > I'd say that Nancy picked well. So did Ranger. Joy Dan, you're just a softie. Stay home and be the best Daddy to the bitties. Jazz & his mama  SignatureIrulan from the stars we come to the stars we return from now until the end of time > Though the last week has been rather stressful, it has also been > refreshing. Through the doctor visits and car crash and insurance battles, [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > I'd say that Nancy picked well. > Dan, you're just a softie. Stay home and be the best Daddy to the bitties. > Jazz & his mama That's definitely the plan! I feel really good about Monday's interview - I'm feeling confident that it will go well. Dan By the way I gather that you also have a new baby {of a different kind } welcome to the club, Ranger sounds cute, Does Harri get jealous? Jean.P. > > Dan, you're just a softie. Stay home and be the best Daddy to the bitties. > > Jazz & his mama [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Dan > By the way I gather that you also have a new baby {of a different kind } > welcome to the club, Ranger sounds cute, Does Harri get jealous? > Jean.P. About two weeks ago while I was out on the road, Nancy stumbled across some people who had some kittens they needed to rehome immediately. Not wanting to see kittens go homeless, Nancy brought one of them home. Little Ranger girl is now about 8 weeks old. Harri had some adjustments to make, but has made excellent progress. Everybody is getting along remarkably well. Harri actually goes looking for Ranger to play with her. Thats great Dan, I hope these posts tonight are getting through Ok as I am typing on a very strange reply thing and couldn't change it back to the normal one, Ranger soubs great, glad Harri is being his usual sweet self Jean.P. > > By the way I gather that you also have a new baby {of a different kind } > > welcome to the club, Ranger sounds cute, Does Harri get jealous? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Everybody is getting along remarkably well. Harri actually goes looking > for Ranger to play with her. Lots of purrs and best wishes for your interview, Dan, SignaturePolonca & Soncek > > Dan, you're just a softie. Stay home and be the best Daddy to the bitties. > > Jazz & his mama [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Dan > I'd say that Nancy picked well. Awww.... SignatureVictor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com Did you have a crash Dan I haven't been doing much since my new Grand-Daughter was born as I have been running {ahem, I mean crawling }up and down from the Hospital, If you or Nancy need Purrs you have them Jean.P. > Though the last week has been rather stressful, it has also been > refreshing. Through the doctor visits and car crash and insurance [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > I'd say that Nancy picked well. > Did you have a crash Dan I haven't been doing much since my new > Grand-Daughter was born as I have been running {ahem, I mean > crawling }up and down from the Hospital, If you or Nancy need > Purrs you have them Jean.P. Yes, Tuesday morning Nancy was running to the doctor to see to my new hernia. As we were slowing to pull into the parking lot a big pickup came speeding down the street and rear-ended us. Nancy was hospitalized for a few hours and came away with a concussion, but both of us walked away with no lasting injuries. I have been rading about your grand-daughter. Concatulations! Dan Here I am again,thank you for the concatulations, she's beautiful sorry about your crash but thank god your both Ok thats a bonus hope your hernia goes alright too if you get my meaning, I had one of those years ago. Jean. > > Did you have a crash Dan I haven't been doing much since my new > > Grand-Daughter was born as I have been running {ahem, I mean [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Dan >Though the last week has been rather stressful, it has also been >refreshing. Through the doctor visits and car crash and insurance [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Ranger is still a tiny, tiny little thing. Though she's been here for >two weeks, she's still just 8 weeks old. Pictures! Show me pictures of the smurgling fuzzball!!!! Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com Strong purrs from MileHigh for your Mon.interview to go your way, Dan. BTW if we had met @ the Aurora truckstop you'd know why I can't stand it any longer and have to ask you this ? - how come you named Nancy's latest kitten after my truck? LOL is she an "Edge" model, built-up frame that rolls easily and therefore needs real easygoing turns? >>Though the last week has been rather stressful, it has also been >>refreshing. Through the doctor visits and car crash and insurance [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh > My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com > Strong purrs from MileHigh for your Mon.interview to go your way, Dan. BTW > if we had met @ the Aurora truckstop you'd know why I can't stand it any > longer and have to ask you this ? - how come you named Nancy's latest kitten > after my truck? LOL is she an "Edge" model, built-up frame that rolls easily > and therefore needs real > easygoing turns? That's funny! Nancy says the folks she adopted Ranger from had named her, and said "she seems to like the name Ranger". Nancy now says that we'll continue to call her Ranger, but her official name ought to be "Highland Ranger Mahoney" since she gets such great enjoyment from roaming our local area on leash and harness. My pickup truck - the one that was just wrecked by that *!*^*$%&$& that ran in to us - is my favorite vehicle of all time. At least, it was until it got wrecked. We still don't know if it the insurance company will repair it or declare it totaled. Actually, we still haven't been able to get in touch with the other guy's adjuster, and it's now 4 1/2 days after the accident. If I don't see some really remarkable action by Monday I'm going to have to contact an attorney. I really hate to do so, since I really don't like attorneys nor do I like having to give them a portion of the settlement, but if the other guy's insurance company is going to be a problem then I really don't see any alternative to sicking an attorney on them. Why can't insurance companys be ethical and honorable? Is that too much to ask? Dan >> Strong purrs from MileHigh for your Mon.interview to go your way, Dan. >> BTW if we had met @ the Aurora truckstop you'd know why I can't stand it [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Dan Do you have full insurance yourself? If it were just the truck, I'd just go to my insurance and let them go after the other guy. There is a remote possibility his insurance wasn't paid up, and if that's the case the sooner you know the better. Jo > Do you have full insurance yourself? If it were just the truck, I'd just go > to my insurance and let them go after the other guy. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Jo Since my income as a truck driver has been about 1/3 of what I'm used to earning as a programmer, we carried only liability and uninsured motorist coverage. We have been able to determine that the other guy's insurance *is* in force. We just haven't been able to get the other guy's company to get off the dime and do their job. That's why I'm thinking about retaining a pit bull - err, an attorney. Dan I kept getting your accident mixed up w/Pam's husband's in my mind but now I remember: you were rearended, and that's pretty difficult to pin on anybody but dude who rammed you from behind. I assume he was charged w/causing the crash. What Jo told you is what I would: complain to YOUR insurance agent (talk to head honcho there - the one who owns the agency) re the whole matter (I assume you have a copy of police report: if not, get one NOW), not just contacting the culprit's agency. This is what you've been paying YOUR agent for: they are on your side. Sign nothing and admit nothing to anyone but your agent (or the cops, if need be...I don't think you'll see any more cops than were @ the scene). No need to consult an attorney till you have an in-depth conversation w/your insurance agent. >> Do you have full insurance yourself? If it were just the truck, I'd just >> go to my insurance and let them go after the other guy. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Dan > I kept getting your accident mixed up w/Pam's husband's in my mind but now I > remember: you were rearended, and that's pretty difficult to pin on anybody [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > No need to consult an attorney till you have an in-depth > conversation w/your insurance agent. The first thing I did was call both insurance companies (was still on the phone with them when the police arrived). The police report won't be available until tomorrow (pretty speedy they usually say to allow 10 days), but I'll be getting a copy right away and faxing a copy to my insurance folks. My insurance folks have said that since my converage won't be coming in to play, they won't be able to be of much assistance. Which is pretty much what I expected. Most of the big companies don't really want to be bothered if they aren't going to have to pay out anything themselves. Normally I'd call the agent we purchased the insurance through, as she's an acquaintance of my mom. Unfortunately she retired a few months ago, and our policy got reassigned to another local agent who doesn't speak English particularly well. We need to find someone else to move our policy to, but I think we'll wait until all this excitement is over. Dan >> complain to YOUR insurance agent (talk to head honcho >> there - the one who owns the agency) re the whole matter (I assume >> you have a copy of police report: if not, get one NOW), not just >> contacting the culprit's agency. >> This is what you've been paying YOUR agent for (snippage) > Normally I'd call the agent we purchased the insurance > through, as she's > an acquaintance of my mom. Unfortunately she retired a few months ago, > and our policy got reassigned to another local agent who doesn't speak > English particularly well. CAREFUL with that statement! I was slammed (well, only by one individual) on rfc because I mentioned a guy at the store down the street didn't speak or read English well. I was accused of being prejudiced. Is it MY fault the guy stocked "fresh pasta" on the shelf with the dried when it should have been refrigerated? Is it MY fault when I pointed it out to him and even showed him (both on the label and the cooler case where it needed to be kept) he didn't understand me? Is it my fault his boss (his cousin, also a foreigner) understood me when I saw the same pasta sitting on the shelf the next day? He promptly pulled it and thanked me and gave me a package free from the back cooler for pointing it out. But I'm "prejudiced" because I mentioned the first guy doesn't speak or read English well. Hrrrrmph. Good luck with a quick resolution on your claim. Jill >>> complain to YOUR insurance agent (talk to head honcho >>> there - the one who owns the agency) re the whole matter (I assume [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >on rfc because I mentioned a guy at the store down the street didn't speak >or read English well. I was accused of being prejudiced. Let me tell you something. I have non-prejudiced credentials to burn, and I don't give a crap what other people think. I don't think people should be forced to learn or speak English at any faster than a reasonable speed that they can fit into their lives. BUT at the same time, there are still certain areas here where good, if not perfect English is essential. If I cannot understand my doctor, or other health care worker, and he cannot understand me, I would say that could lead to serious problems, and I would be deeply concerned. I would think that this could/should raise red flags in the insurance industry too, as a possible malpractice risk. If people can find some niche here where they can get by without speaking English, I don't care and God bless them. I am against any "official language" legislation. But I don't think people who persist in not learning English well should blame the system, government, or "prejudiced" individuals, if they have problems in the wider society. That said, Americans are ridiculously incurious and lazy about other languages. As the joke goes, Q. "What do you call someone who speaks two languages?" A. "Bilingual." Q. "What do you call somone who speaks one language?" A. "American." :P Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com Kreisleriana <kreisleriana2@yahoo.com> had some very interesting things to say about Re: Ranger kitten progress: > If people can find some niche here where they can get by without >speaking English, I don't care and God bless them. I am against any >"official language" legislation. But I don't think people who persist >in not learning English well should blame the system, government, or >"prejudiced" individuals, if they have problems in the wider society. I'm not really happy about having to have government materials in five or six languages (my main objection to that is to the expense to the taxpayer, namely you and me) because someone can't be bothered to learn the local language. I would certainly expect to need to learn the local language if I were to move to a non-English-speaking country, and fail to see why anyone else should expect everything to be provided in umpteen languages at major expense so they don't have to put out the effort to learn the local language. Signature"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding. :-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL > I'm not really happy about having to have government materials in > five or six languages (my main objection to that is to the expense [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > expense so they don't have to put out the effort to learn the local > language. AFAIK, the US still doesn't have an official language. Maybe you can help put legislation into place to change that. In the meantime, English is just a convention. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > AFAIK, the US still doesn't have an official language. Maybe you can > help put legislation into place to change that. In the meantime, > English is just a convention. I can't recall for sure if it was a national thing or just a CA thing, but many years ago there was a push to make English the official language. Was killed off in the very early stages as being "racist". Didn't make any sense to me back then either. "Monique Y. Mudama" <spam@bounceswoosh.org> had some very interesting things to say about Re: Ranger kitten progress: >> I'm not really happy about having to have government materials in >> five or six languages (my main objection to that is to the expense [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >help put legislation into place to change that. In the meantime, >English is just a convention. OTOH, it's still by far the dominant language, and IMO it's just polite to at least TRY, especially if you're in a job involving interacting with customers who aren't likely to speak your own native language and poor communication is likely to cost your employer in damaged merchandise, lost business (such as my soon-to-be-former cell phone provider) or both. Signature"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding. :-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL > OTOH, it's still by far the dominant language, and IMO it's just > polite to at least TRY, especially if you're in a job involving > interacting with customers who aren't likely to speak your own > native language and poor communication is likely to cost your > employer in damaged merchandise, lost business (such as my > soon-to-be-former cell phone provider) or both. Also true. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca "jmcquown" <jmcquown@bellsouth.net> had some very interesting things to say about Re: Ranger kitten progress: >CAREFUL with that statement! I was slammed (well, only by one individual) >on rfc because I mentioned a guy at the store down the street didn't speak [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >from the back cooler for pointing it out. But I'm "prejudiced" because I >mentioned the first guy doesn't speak or read English well. Hrrrrmph. Oh boy, don't EVEN get me going about the "customer service" at TracFone. Took SIX calls in three days to get voicemail working straight (I consider this an essential feature), and it wasn't until I escalated to the second-level desk, and got a wonderful gentleman who actually spoke and understood English and knew what the (bleep) he was talking about, that it finally got solved. I'm sure the language problem was relevant. Signature"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding. :-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL > CAREFUL with that statement! I was slammed (well, only by one individual) > on rfc because I mentioned a guy at the store down the street didn't speak [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > from the back cooler for pointing it out. But I'm "prejudiced" because I > mentioned the first guy doesn't speak or read English well. Hrrrrmph. Yep, that's a familiar story. I've been on the receiving end of that sort of claim many a time. I've heard those accusation so often I've come to ignore them. As so many others have stated, I am firmly convinced that if you want to live in a country (*any* country) and do business with the residents of that country, you ahve an obligation to learn to speak the official language or most-used language of that country. Dan Dan and Nancy Mahoney <dan@catfolks.net> had some very interesting things to say about Re: Ranger kitten progress: >> CAREFUL with that statement! I was slammed (well, only by one individual) >> on rfc because I mentioned a guy at the store down the street didn't speak [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >business with the residents of that country, you ahve an obligation to >learn to speak the official language or most-used language of that country. EXACTLY!!!! As I said elsewhere in the thread, I'd certainly expect to, if I moved to (for example) Germany, have to learn German. I'd certainly be thankful for any helpful bilingual types around, but it just seems common courtesy to learn the language of a country in which you live. Signature"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding. :-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL > Dan and Nancy Mahoney <dan@catfolks.net> had some very interesting > things to say about Re: Ranger kitten progress: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > just seems common courtesy to learn the language of a country in which > you live. I can't spell in Thai but I can speak well enough to get around, buy things at the market, hail a cab, whatever. And I was there 1969-1971. Sawadii ka! Thom alai na ka? :) Jill "jmcquown" <jmcquown@bellsouth.net> had some very interesting things to say about Re: Ranger kitten progress: >I can't spell in Thai but I can speak well enough to get around, buy things >at the market, hail a cab, whatever. And I was there 1969-1971. Sawadii >ka! Thom alai na ka? :) Huh? :-) (I've never had occasion to learn Thai) Signature"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding. :-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL > "jmcquown" <jmcquown@bellsouth.net> had some very interesting things > to say about Re: Ranger kitten progress: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Huh? :-) (I've never had occasion to learn Thai) I said "Hello, how are you?" (in the feminine form). Jill > > "jmcquown" <jmcquown@bellsouth.net> had some very interesting things > > to say about Re: Ranger kitten progress: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Jill I need to learn to say "I am a crazy American. I really want it Bangkok hot, but not Lao hot. I will not convulse and die if you serve it that way." >> CAREFUL with that statement! I was slammed (well, only by one >> individual) on rfc because I mentioned a guy at the store down the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> shelf the next day? He promptly pulled it and thanked me and gave >> me a package free from the back cooler for pointing it out. But I'm >> "prejudiced" because I mentioned the first guy doesn't speak or read >> English well. Hrrrrmph. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Dan Ugh. I guess I didn't live up to my obligation then. I've been living here in Thailand for 4 years now and can speak only the most rudimentary phrases in Thai. I did try to learn it at the beginning but found it completely impossible. I'm tone deaf and they use tones to differentiate between virtually identical sounding words. Someone would tell me 2 words that were supposedly different and I'd listen to them over and over again and they would sound *identical* to me. When speaking, I'd say the wrong tone in a word and they would just stare at me like I'd just sprouted another head from my shoulder. It was utterly discouraging. Not to mention that I'm a very visual learner and not being able to read the writing made things even harder. At this point, we're about a year away from leaving, I'm not bothering anymore. I know that if we'd been living in a French or Spanish or any other "normal" type language speaking country, I'd be fluent by now. -- Britta "There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast." -- Unknown Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album >>> CAREFUL with that statement! I was slammed (well, only by one >>> individual) on rfc because I mentioned a guy at the store down the >>> street didn't speak or read English well. I was accused of being >>> prejudiced. >> Yep, that's a familiar story. I've been on the receiving end of that >> sort of claim many a time. I've heard those accusation so often I've [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > would tell me 2 words that were supposedly different and I'd listen to > them over and over again and they would sound *identical* to me. Ah, yes! "Mai mai mai!" Different intonations but the phrase means "The wood won't break" LOL It's a difficult language, and don't even begin to factor in the various tonal differences from northern to southern Thailand :) Luckily, I'm good with inflections. When > speaking, I'd say the wrong tone in a word and they would just stare > at me like I'd just sprouted another head from my shoulder. It was [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > any other "normal" type language speaking country, I'd be fluent by > now. LOL I never would have attempted to learn how to write in Thai, although they did try to teach us. It looks lovely on a bottle of chilli-garlic sauce or nam plaa, though ;) Jill >>>> CAREFUL with that statement! I was slammed (well, only by one >>>> individual) on rfc because I mentioned a guy at the store down the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Ah, yes! "Mai mai mai!" Different intonations but the phrase means > "The wood won't break" LOL It's a difficult language, and don't even > begin to factor in the various tonal differences from northern to > southern Thailand :) Luckily, I'm good with inflections. You're lucky. It all sounds the same to me. Listening to a bunch of Thai women talk, I always think of a bunch of crows going "Ka, ka, ka!" I do know enough to get around in every day situations, all the numbers, directions, pleasantries, foods. But that's about it. > When >> speaking, I'd say the wrong tone in a word and they would just stare [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> bothering anymore. I know that if we'd been living in a French or >> Spanish or any other "normal" type language speaking country, I'd be >> fluent by now. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Jill Yup, it's very decorative, that's for sure. I know a guy who's been here for over 10 years and is married to a Thai wife. He speaks it perfectly but still can't read. He's been saying he's going to learn for the whole 4 years I've known him, but it hasn't happened. -- Britta "There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast." -- Unknown Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album >I know a guy who's been here for over 10 years and is married to a >Thai wife. He speaks it perfectly but still can't read. He's been >saying he's going to learn for the whole 4 years I've known him, but >it hasn't happened. As I understand it, the Thai writing system is alphabetic (like Western languages), not ideographic (like Chinese), so there should be a relatively small number of symbols to memorize. SignatureJohn F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria >> I know a guy who's been here for over 10 years and is married to a >> Thai wife. He speaks it perfectly but still can't read. He's been [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Western languages), not ideographic (like Chinese), so there should be > a relatively small number of symbols to memorize. Heh, you try to make sense of those squiggles. When you do it, teach me :) Jill >> I know a guy who's been here for over 10 years and is married to a >> Thai wife. He speaks it perfectly but still can't read. He's been >> saying he's going to learn for the whole 4 years I've known him, but >> it hasn't happened. > > As I understand it, the Thai writing system is alphabetic (like > Western languages), not ideographic (like Chinese), so there should be > a relatively small number of symbols to memorize. There are 77 or 75, can't remember now. And then there are squiggles on top and squiggles below. And there's combinations that mean other things. And no spaces between words, only between sentences. -- Britta "There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast." -- Unknown Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album >>> I know a guy who's been here for over 10 years and is married to a >>> Thai wife. He speaks it perfectly but still can't read. He's been [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >on top and squiggles below. And there's combinations that mean other >things. And no spaces between words, only between sentences. OK, so "relatively small" when compared to memorizing several thousand Chinese symbols, but not small compared to English. SignatureJohn F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria > >I know a guy who's been here for over 10 years and is married to a > >Thai wife. He speaks it perfectly but still can't read. He's been [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Western languages), not ideographic (like Chinese), so there should be > a relatively small number of symbols to memorize. IIRC, though, it's cursive, like English script, with different forms of characters depending on context. Years back, I worked on multialphabet workstations before the technology was really ready. It turned out that Chinese kanji ideographs are mostly made up of a reasonably sized set of "radicals" or graphic elements. What drove us crazy was the Arabic alphabet (also used for Farsi, Pashtun, and others), which has only 21 characters -- but you can't know how to display one until the next one is typed. Also, Arabic numbers go from left to right while the letters go from right to left, so, when you get to the end of the line, the workstation has to know if it's in alphabetic or numeric mode. It needs that to know whether to place the next-line cursor on the right or left margin. > Ugh. I guess I didn't live up to my obligation then. I've been > living here in Thailand for 4 years now and can speak only the most [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > any other "normal" type language speaking country, I'd be fluent by > now. I think that's different, since you're not trying to run a business that deals with Thai people. If you were trying to run, say, and insurance agency then you would pretty well have to learn to read, write, and speak Thai fluently. In the same way, I expect my insurance agent to read, write, and speak English fluently. Dan >>> CAREFUL with that statement! I was slammed (well, only by one >>> individual) on rfc because I mentioned a guy at the store down the [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > Check out pictures of Vino at: > http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album But there must be Thai people who are tone deaf. How does that work? >>>> CAREFUL with that statement! I was slammed (well, only by one >>>> individual) on rfc because I mentioned a guy at the store down the [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >> bothering anymore. I know that if we'd been living in a French or >> Spanish or any other "normal" type language speaking country, I'd be >> fluent by now. >> -- [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> > But there must be Thai people who are tone deaf. How does that work? Beats me. I guess if you are raised with it, you can hear the slight nuances of sound. To me, raising or lowering your voice while talking means emphasis and emotion, not totally different words. -- Britta "There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast." -- Unknown Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album >> But there must be Thai people who are tone deaf. How does that work? > Beats me. I guess if you are raised with it, you can hear the slight > nuances of sound. To me, raising or lowering your voice while talking > means emphasis and emotion, not totally different words. I have read that children (well, hearing ones, I guess) are born with the capacity to hear all the sounds in all human languages, and as part of the developmental process, they keep the ones they hear around them and lose the ones they don't. That's why adults find it easier to learn languages which are closely related to their native one (more similar sounds) and almost never learn languages with a native accent, not even ones far more closely related than Thai and English. People raised in a home and society in which they hear and use sounds from different languages from infancy do learn to speak the languages with perfect fluency and accent. Just think how hard it is for, say, most Europeans to pronounce the English 'th' properly, or (one of the sounds I always found hard to hear and say) English people to pronounce a French 'r', no matter how good their vocab and grammar are. But children raised with these sounds don't have problems with them. SignatureCheryl >>> But there must be Thai people who are tone deaf. How does that work? > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > English 'th' properly, or (one of the sounds I always found hard to > hear and say) English people to pronounce a French 'r', no matter how > good their vocab and grammar are. But children raised with these > sounds don't have problems with them. I was born and raised in Germany until we moved to Canada when I was 10. So I already had to learn a second language (English). It didn't take me long at age 10. I was proficient in 6 months, fluent in a year. I've been speaking English now for 23 years and nobody would say I speak with a German accent. However, I don't really have a Canadian accent either. People usually assume I'm Irish or Scottish or something. Weird, since I've never even been to those places. But somehow, in my mixed up speaking German at home and English with everyone else world, I ended up with a weird, unidentifiable accent. Suits me just fine, I'm a citizen of the world anyway ;-) -- Britta "There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast." -- Unknown Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album > I was born and raised in Germany until we moved to Canada when I was > 10. So I already had to learn a second language (English). It didn't > take me long at age 10. I was proficient in 6 months, fluent in a > year. Congratulations! You must have still been at the stage of life at which it is very easy to learn languages (although I'd guess near the upper limits) or be one of those people who have a natural gift for languages, a good ear for them. I, most emphatically, do not have a gift for languages. I'd hate to confess how long I've spent trying to learn French (and dabbling in other languages), and as the few native French-speakers who have heard me could attest, the result of all that study was neither fluency nor a good accent. I always think children of immigrants have a marvellous opportunity to become fluent in two (and sometimes more!) languages. For some years, my parents' neighbours were Germans who immigrated after WWII. They spoke English fluently with a thick accent, but chose not to teach their children German ("We are living in Canada; they will be Canadian"). Naturally, one of their daughters became interested in German in her late teens (isn't life always contrary?) and although I think she became fluent in German, she had to start learning it from scratch. In other families, the first generation is often bilingual which I think is a great gift. The grandchildren tend to be far more assimilated, and to know only a few words of the ancestral language, though, unless the family makes extraordinary efforts to keep it going. > I've been speaking English now for 23 years and nobody would > say I speak with a German accent. However, I don't really have a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > everyone else world, I ended up with a weird, unidentifiable accent. > Suits me just fine, I'm a citizen of the world anyway ;-) Even in North America, English accents still vary enough for some people to have difficulty with the odd ones. Mine seems to be difficult to place - the Brits know I'm some kind of North American, but can't pin me down to a country, Canadians generally know I'm one of their own, but unless they're from Newfoundland, they don't get the province right because I don't speak with a stereotypical Newfoundland accent, and when I visited relatives in Utah, I was mistaken for someone from England, more than once, which I thought was really bizarre! But I certainly didn't speak the way they did in Utah. And that's all without any German in the home at all! SignatureCheryl >> I was born and raised in Germany until we moved to Canada when I was >> 10. So I already had to learn a second language (English). It >> didn't take me long at age 10. I was proficient in 6 months, fluent >> in a year. > > Congratulations! You must have still been at the stage of life at > which it is very easy to learn languages (although I'd guess near the > upper limits) or be one of those people who have a natural gift for > languages, a good ear for them. Thanks, but for a 10 year old it's a necessity to learn as fast as possible because otherwise you have no friends to play with! I do think it snuck in there just in time with my age in order to really get it quick and fluently. My friends who were just here, Victor and Rebecca, weren't so lucky. Victors parents came to Canada from Guatemala when Victor was 13 and he has a pretty thick Spanish accent. Rebecca's parents are Mandarin speaking Chinese Malaysians and they came to Canada when Rebecca was 15 and she still has some trouble with the English language. My parents were in their early 40's when we moved to Canada and their German accent is very thick. My dad's isn't as bad because he worked, but my mom's is very strong. > I, most emphatically, do not have a > gift for languages. I'd hate to confess how long I've spent trying to > learn French (and dabbling in other languages), and as the few native > French-speakers who have heard me could attest, the result of all > that study was neither fluency nor a good accent. I took French in school from grade 5 - 12, even got A's in it, but now I can't remember much because I never use it. I think I could learn it pretty fast though if I was immersed in it. It's much easier than Thai, that's for sure! > I always think children of immigrants have a marvellous opportunity to > become fluent in two (and sometimes more!) languages. For some years, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Canadian"). Naturally, one of their daughters became interested in > German in her late teens (isn't life always contrary?) and although I > think she became fluent in German, she had to start learning it from > scratch. Yes, I think about that. If I was to have kids (which I'm not planning on), I would want them to learn German. But Dennis doesn't speak German so it would be hard to do. >> I've been speaking English now for 23 years and nobody would >> say I speak with a German accent. However, I don't really have a >> Canadian accent either. People usually assume I'm Irish or Scottish >> or something. Weird, since I've never even been to those places. >> But somehow, in my mixed up speaking German at home and English with >> everyone else world, I ended up with a weird, unidentifiable accent. >> Suits me just fine, I'm a citizen of the world anyway ;-) [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > And that's all without any German in the home at all! Yes, that's true. There seem to be more and more accents out there all the time, with people moving around so much, etc. I have a friend who's from Detroit but lived in Houston, Nigeria, Malaysia and Venezuela and now in Bangkok. She hangs around with a lot of Australians. Her accent is very, very strange! I wonder if I'll ever pick up the Aussie accent after we move there. Probably not because I'm already 33. I'll be a foreigner forever! ;-) -- Britta "There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast." -- Unknown Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album >> But there must be Thai people who are tone deaf. How does that work? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > -- > Britta As much trouble as I'm having with losing my hearing, it must be really hard for someone with a tonal language. Lip reading English is hard enough. What I do manage to hear is strictly monotone, and that screws with understanding enough. I used to really suffer trying to learn a second language. Two years of Spanish and I can just barely get by. One semester of German in college and changed my major to business as it was clear there weren't enough hours in the day for me to learn it. I was all but living in the language lab and doing drills the rest of the time. And I couldn't get a degree in sciences without French, German, or Russian. (All of which my spouse can speak a little, as well as Japanese) Still getting D's in German and A's in everything else. I was quite relieved to learn later that at least in my case its a learning disability. Daddy grew up in Canada and never did learn French. Some brains just aren't wired to handle a second language. I greatly admire those who can. Jo > As so many others have stated, I am firmly convinced that if you want > to live in a country (*any* country) and do business with the > residents of that country, you ahve an obligation to learn to speak > the official language or most-used language of that country. I used to share that opinion, but I've mellowed quite a bit. Not everyone finds it easy to learn a new language; does that mean they don't deserve a chance to live in a country that treats them better than their native country did? That's not the same as saying they have a right to be employed at a job where their lack of understanding causes the kinds of product damage you're describing, though. I just remember being at a drugstore one time and hearing a teenage cashier berating an older lady, clearly part of the cleaning crew. This girl was yelling at the lady for her poor pronunciation, something like that. And there I was, standing with my mom, who moved to the US knowing only a handful of English words. She speaks English well now, but with a strong accent. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca >> Actually, we still haven't been able to get in touch with the other >> guy's adjuster, and it's now 4 1/2 days after the accident. If I [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> Dan Dan, Speaking as someone who waited about a month before things finally got moving, I feel your pain. Fortunately, though, mine was just cosmetic damage; I was still able to drive me car. Anyway, in my case, the other driver took a few weeks getting back to the insurance company, and they couldn't go ahead with payments until he agreed that he'd run into me. Your situation may be different if you have witnesses, especially if a cop was able to come to the scene. If you don't have outside confirmation of what happened, though ... > Do you have full insurance yourself? If it were just the truck, I'd > just go to my insurance and let them go after the other guy. I've done this before. I had to pay my deductable, and then I didn't get the money back for a while. Not such a big deal. Also, if you go this route and you don't have rental coverage, you won't get a rental car in the deal, whereas if the other guy's insurance covers it, you will. > There is a remote possibility his insurance wasn't paid up, and if > that's the case the sooner you know the better. Ugh. What happens in these kinds of cases? Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca >> Though the last week has been rather stressful, it has also been >> refreshing. Through the doctor visits and car crash and insurance [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh > My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com Yeah, where are the new pictures??? (and purrs for your interview on Monday, Dan) Jill > Yeah, where are the new pictures??? > (and purrs for your interview on Monday, Dan) > > Jill I've got pictures but have to download them from the camera. Since I'm off work on medical leave I had to turn my truck back in to the company. That meant I had to move all my crap out of the truck. It's amazing how much crap you can cram into a Freightliner condo sleeper, especially when you're a pack rat :) That means that my laptop is now somewhere in the garage. As soon as I find it I'll post the most recent pictures. The picture I capturedd today include: * ear lobe smurlges * eyelid smurgles (that feels REALLY funny!) * elbow smurgles * elbow napping, and * shoulder napping Dan > Since I'm off work on medical leave I had to turn my truck back in to > the company. That meant I had to move all my crap out of the truck. It's [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > * elbow napping, and > * shoulder napping Oooh. can't wait! She's a little smrgler, isn't she. SignatureMarina, Frank, Nikki, and Mere marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki |
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