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Ping Tweed

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CatNipped - 25 Apr 2005 18:49 GMT
Tweed, have you heard anything from your doctors yet?

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Hugs,

CatNipped
http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/

Christina Websell - 25 Apr 2005 22:58 GMT
> Tweed, have you heard anything from your doctors yet?

No.  I shall not know any more until I wake up after my operation and they
tell me what they found.  That's what makes it harder to bear, although I
think I know really as I found a couple of lumps in gynae places yesterday
which weren't there a few days ago.

I have prepared most of my family now not to expect good news, and that was
very difficult and emotional for me.  My cousin Margi who I am close to is
on holiday in Tenerife and I've left strict instructions that she is not to
be told until she gets back.

I am now working my way through my friends.  I have told all but two or
three.  One is half-told, if you know what I mean. so only two to go and I
so wish someone else would tell them because it starts us all up weeping
every time.

My dear German friend, NĂ¼le, phoned me for two hours on Saturday night, she
is a doctor who now practises homeopathy only and she is sending a remedy
she thinks might help (can't do any harm, anyway) while I wait to go back
into hospital.  She is visiting me at the end of May.

I was also blessed and anointed yesterday by two who hold the priesthood in
the LDS.  I found it very touching, and I cried.

I am holding up for now.  I am being counselled to death.  I fully expect to
collapse into a gibbering heap when the full impact hits me.

I am reading the group, on and off, still over 1000 unread though. I love to
hear the stories about what everyone's cat/s do.

I strongly suspect that Kitty was poking today.  She has hardly stirred out
of the house all winter, but today it has warmed up and she was sitting on
top of the freezer in the conservatory, well, just sort of thinking in a
sunbeam.  Actually she was crouched, like meatloafing with her eyes half
shut. Does that qualify as poking, Fil?

Tweed
CatNipped - 25 Apr 2005 23:46 GMT
> > Tweed, have you heard anything from your doctors yet?
>
> No.  I shall not know any more until I wake up after my operation and they
> tell me what they found.  That's what makes it harder to bear, although I
> think I know really as I found a couple of lumps in gynae places yesterday
> which weren't there a few days ago.

Oh, when is the surgery scheduled for (sorry, was that in your first post -
I haven't searched)?

Hugs,

CatNipped
Christina Websell - 26 Apr 2005 00:46 GMT
>>> Tweed, have you heard anything from your doctors yet?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Oh, when is the surgery scheduled for (sorry, was that in your first
> post - I haven't searched)?

16th May.
It's not so much that I bother about dying early - as long as the pain
control is much better than it was in hospital - but I am terribly worried
about what might happen to Boyfriend if I do.  He is only around 2 years old
and I am the only person he will go to.  He doesn't like it if the back door
is closed, so I leave it ajar 24/7 so he can feel he has an escape route.
I can't imagine anyone else would do that.

I am not worried about Kitty Farmcat.  She will go to anyone for comfort and
favours.  I doubt she would miss me at all, which is good.

BF is another matter entirely.  He is such a scaredy-cat and it's taken him
more than a year to trust just me.
I am debating to myself whether or not to leave instructions for him to be
put to sleep if I die as I just can't imagine how this tender soul could go
through a rehoming and maybe live in a city where he cannot wander around
safely and pretend to be a fierce hunter of birdies and small mammals and to
know that he can always get out of the house if he feels he has to.

(BF here.  I do not *pretend* to be a fierce hunter, I am one.  I have
caught loads of birdies, some big ones like collared doves, a shrew, three
mousies and two baby rats and I looked at a grey squirrel and said I would
get it one day.

I am quite excited that Mimi says she wants to go on the Mouser voyage.  She
is my cyber girlfriend and I would very much like to meet her on the ship.
I hope Capt PC will allow us a couple of days in our cabin to get to know
each other before reporting for duty. !!
Karen - 26 Apr 2005 01:39 GMT
>>>> Tweed, have you heard anything from your doctors yet?
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> safely and pretend to be a fierce hunter of birdies and small mammals and to
> know that he can always get out of the house if he feels he has to.

Oh Tweed. I'm quite certain that since you are in England we could find
someone to take care of Boyfriend. But that is only a possibility that you
might have to worry about in the future. There are certainly several
experienced rescuers from England on this group and I am certain if they put
heads together they could help. I sure wish I could but from over here it is
so difficult so only know that I am praying for you everynight.
CatNipped - 26 Apr 2005 02:07 GMT
Tweed, I can't post what I want right now because this (*&$(%&(*& computer
is popping up with virus alerts every 15 seconds and not allowing me to
type, but I *DO* have some things to tell you and I *WILL* post first thing
in the morning.

Hugs,

CatNipped

> >>> Tweed, have you heard anything from your doctors yet?
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> I hope Capt PC will allow us a couple of days in our cabin to get to know
> each other before reporting for duty. !!
Debbie Wilson - 26 Apr 2005 08:25 GMT
> BF is another matter entirely.  He is such a scaredy-cat and it's taken him
> more than a year to trust just me.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> safely and pretend to be a fierce hunter of birdies and small mammals and to
> know that he can always get out of the house if he feels he has to.

Christina, I've been thinking about BF since you posted your first
message. If he can use or learn to use a cat flap, he would be welcome -
although I do live in a safe semi-rural area, right next to woodland
full of birdies, voles, mices etc - it's not safe enough to leave my
door open, hence the cat flap - and I am completely used to ferals,
ex-ferals, and cats as timid as you like, as I used to foster
extensively for Croydon Cats Protection. Cat flaps can be taped open,
anyway. But I am quite a long way from you, in Coulsdon, Surrey, and
there are at least 3 other cat rescue people on the group who are nearer
to you who may have ideas as well. There is a Lincoln branch of Cats
Protection as well, and they have a shop at 381 High St, Lincoln where
you could find out who to contact and how.

Please, IF, and ONLY IF this issue becomes a necessity, don't even think
of putting him to sleep. There's no need for him to live in a city or
anywhere dangerous, and maybe, if he's learnt to trust a human once, it
would be quicker another time. You can take control of the rehoming, IF
it comes to that, which we are all hoping it won't.

One alternative, if you think he does need to be rehomed somewhere with
24/7 free access, is to approach cat-friendly farmers and riding
stables. We have rehomed many, many ferals and semi-ferals to kind homes
of this nature. The cats are provided with food and water, a warm bed in
an outbuilding, or conservatory, etc, human kindness if they want it and
at the least, someone to keep an eye on them if they don't, and all the
fresh air and mices they can get hold of. It works out very well - often
the cats make their home in a tack room, stables or barn, and live the
life of Riley keeping the rodent population under control. They aren't
forced to be in contact with humans, but can take things on their own
terms.  Again, try a few different Cats Protection groups locally and
explain the above idea to them. I would strongly advise describing him
as a very timid ex-feral, so there is no doubt about the kind of home he
needs - quiet, understanding, and very tolerant of his needs.

If you draw a blank and want my help - just ask, if I can help in some
way, I will. You would be surprised how resilient cats' personalities
are, even those who seem timid and shy beyond help.

Deb.
Signature

http://www.scientific-art.com

"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

HRFLTiger - 26 Apr 2005 11:15 GMT
> Christina, I've been thinking about BF since you posted your first
> message. If he can use or learn to use a cat flap, he would be welcome -
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Protection as well, and they have a shop at 381 High St, Lincoln where
> you could find out who to contact and how.

> If you draw a blank and want my help - just ask, if I can help in some
> way, I will. You would be surprised how resilient cats' personalities
> are, even those who seem timid and shy beyond help.////

That goes for me too, Christina. If I can help, let me know. I have a
few relatives who live in safe farming country and who love cats.

Helen M
Christina Websell - 26 Apr 2005 22:06 GMT
>> Christina, I've been thinking about BF since you posted your first
>> message. If he can use or learn to use a cat flap, he would be
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Helen M

Perhaps you could take charge of arranging somewhere for Kitty Farmcat?  It
isn't necessary to keep her with Boyfriend, she doesn't really like him.
She lived totally outside for 7 years, but now she does like to spend a lot
of time dozing by the fire when the weather is inclement.  She has lived
with dogs before.  She is old, but has no health problems.  Main problem is
that she is grumpy.  Cuddles and skritches enjoyed and sleeping on hoomin
chests purring up a storm a speciality, but only when *she* wants to.  She
is tiny with a big ego.

Tweed
HRFLTiger - 27 Apr 2005 00:22 GMT
> Perhaps you could take charge of arranging somewhere for Kitty Farmcat?  It
> isn't necessary to keep her with Boyfriend, she doesn't really like him.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> that she is grumpy.  Cuddles and skritches enjoyed and sleeping on hoomin
> chests purring up a storm a speciality, but only when *she* wants to.
She
> is tiny with a big ego.///

Sounds like she'd fit in here with my crew. I have a safe garden, a
lovely warm fire, and a very quiet peaceful house.

Email me on leopardusweidii @ yahoo.co.uk and then I can give you my
phone numbers etc. so we can talk about it.

Helen M
Christina Websell - 26 Apr 2005 21:57 GMT
>> BF is another matter entirely.  He is such a scaredy-cat and it's taken
>> him
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> extensively for Croydon Cats Protection. Cat flaps can be taped open,
> anyway. But I am quite a long way from you, in Coulsdon, Surrey,

Debbie, it would ease my mind a lot if you would agree to take Boyfriend if
the worst comes to the worst.  I am sure he could learn to use a cat flap
given time.  He is really no trouble at all, at times I hardly know I've got
him.
I have a brother who lives in Brackley, Northants and who works in London,
so I am sure he could be got to you somehow.

and
> there are at least 3 other cat rescue people on the group who are nearer
> to you who may have ideas as well. There is a Lincoln branch of Cats
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> anywhere dangerous, and maybe, if he's learnt to trust a human once, it
> would be quicker another time.

BF is not a true feral, as in born wild.  When he came here he had a collar
on but I think he had been lost for a while and become very timid.  I could
not get near him for ages, it was months before he would feed inside the
house - with the door open, of course - for a swift exit.  I would imagine
he was perhaps rather a shy cat by nature anyway.  He is braver than he was
already, now he doesn't instantly disappear into the garden when I have a
visitor, he just stays in the kitchen and looks from a distance.  He likes
his bed to be under the kitchen table with a tablecloth nearly down to the
floor and he will spend hours there if the weather is bad, even if the back
door is closed.

You can take control of the rehoming, IF
> it comes to that, which we are all hoping it won't.

I am hoping so too.  I would like to keep them as long as I can.

> One alternative, if you think he does need to be rehomed somewhere with
> 24/7 free access, is to approach cat-friendly farmers and riding
> stables.

Thank you for this good advice too.   He does like to come in the house now
to sleep at night and if the weather isn't to his liking and given that he
was obviously a house cat at some stage, a completely outdoor life wouldn't
be my first option for him because now and again he has a completely
overwhelming urge to snuggle up to me and have his tummy rubbed, mainly when
I have been sitting quietly for a hour or so.  It's a rare honour though.

So, can we say, that in the worst possible scenario, you will give him a
home?

I am trying to sort all possible solutions out by 14 May as I go into
hospital on the 15th for surgery on 16th.    I need to know that my animals
will be cared for, until I do, I can't rest.

Tweed
HRFLTiger - 27 Apr 2005 00:42 GMT
> I am trying to sort all possible solutions out by 14 May as I go into

> hospital on the 15th for surgery on 16th.    I need to know that my animals
> will be cared for, until I do, I can't rest.///

I'm hoping that they'll be with you permenantly, and everything is not
as bad as it seems. But even if it is, they'll be safe and cared for
with people who will love them. If BF goes to Deb, and Kitty Farmcat
comes here, you can be sure that they'll be cared for in the manner to
which they have become acustomed. Lets hope it doesn't come to that
though.

{{{{HUGS}}}}

Helen M
Marina - 27 Apr 2005 04:43 GMT
> I'm hoping that they'll be with you permenantly, and everything is not
> as bad as it seems. But even if it is, they'll be safe and cared for
> with people who will love them. If BF goes to Deb, and Kitty Farmcat
> comes here, you can be sure that they'll be cared for in the manner to
> which they have become acustomed. Lets hope it doesn't come to that
> though.

WTG, Deb and Helen! Christina, I too hope that KFC and BF will live long
lives with you, but if worst comes to worst, I don't think they could
find better new homes than those of Deb and Helen. We are purring that
you will be able to keep them with you, though. Purrs ongoing until we
hear from you after the surgery.

Signature

Marina, Frank, Nikki, and introducing: Mere!
marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Debbie Wilson - 27 Apr 2005 08:47 GMT
> Debbie, it would ease my mind a lot if you would agree to take Boyfriend if
> the worst comes to the worst.  I am sure he could learn to use a cat flap
> given time.  He is really no trouble at all, at times I hardly know I've got
> him.
> I have a brother who lives in Brackley, Northants and who works in London,
> so I am sure he could be got to you somehow.

Yes, if the worst happens, I will take him, and I am sure we can work
out a way of getting him to me. Bear in mind, we live in a 2-bed
maisonette and have 4 cats already, so it is crowded, but we are hoping
to enlarge (buy the downstairs flat) within a year, so we'd double the
space indoors and have 2x the garden. I would keep BF inside for 3 weeks
in a fostering-type arrangement anyway, to make sure he didn't just run
off.

Can you email me with your un-munged email address, and I'll give you my
contact details for future reference, if required?

> BF is not a true feral, as in born wild.  When he came here he had a collar
> on but I think he had been lost for a while and become very timid.  I could
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> floor and he will spend hours there if the weather is bad, even if the back
> door is closed.

Ahh - it makes you wonder what his story is. If he is a stray that has
turned 'feral' that is much better, as it means he was once socialised,
even if still shy. It sounds like you've made amazing progress with him,
anyway. Especially if he actually comes to have his tummy rubbed! No
adult ex-feral of mine would do that, except to ambush your fingers for
a tasty snack :-)

> So, can we say, that in the worst possible scenario, you will give him a
> home?
>
> I am trying to sort all possible solutions out by 14 May as I go into
> hospital on the 15th for surgery on 16th.    I need to know that my animals
> will be cared for, until I do, I can't rest.

Yes, now we have discussed this, and you know I will take BF in IF (and
only IF) the worst happens, please put this to the back of your mind,
assume it won't be needed and concentrate on good, positive thoughts to
make yourself as strong as possible before the 16th. As others here have
said, and I strongly agree - your mind is one of the most powerful cures
there is.

Deb.
Signature

http://www.scientific-art.com

"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

Debbie Wilson - 27 Apr 2005 08:59 GMT
> Can you email me with your un-munged email address, and I'll give you my
> contact details for future reference, if required?

Should have added, the gmail address at the top does work, but the best
one to use is debbie@zoobotanica.com

Deb.
Signature

http://www.scientific-art.com

"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

Christine Burel - 27 Apr 2005 16:57 GMT
Proud to be on the same newsgroup as you and Helen, Debbie.
regards,
Christine

> > Debbie, it would ease my mind a lot if you would agree to take Boyfriend if
> > the worst comes to the worst.  I am sure he could learn to use a cat flap
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>
> Deb.
Adrian - 27 Apr 2005 16:03 GMT
> > BF is another matter entirely.  He is such a scaredy-cat and it's taken him
> > more than a year to trust just me.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> would be quicker another time. You can take control of the rehoming, IF
> it comes to that, which we are all hoping it won't.

I hope it will never be necessary, but if you need it I have a phone
number and contact name for the Leicester & District branch of Cats
Protection. Never give up hope, the best thing for Boyfriend is for you
to get well and care for him for the rest of his life. If you want the
number you can email me, adrian at clowder dot org dot uk
Signature

Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera)
A house is not a home, without a cat.

CatNipped - 26 Apr 2005 15:18 GMT
All right, I'm finally at a working computer.  Don't worry, I'm not going to
fuss (much)!  ;>

Christina, first of all you need to stop being strong for just a little
while.  Go ahead and cry, shout, kick the furniture, curse God, and rant
about how unfair it is that this happened to you.  You're due that, you
deserve the emotional release.  It *IS* unfair that this has happened to
such a sweet, caring, loving, and giving person.  It absolutely *SUCKS*!  Go
ahead and throw a really good tantrum until you feel completely drained.

Next, think about the worse that can happen and make all the arrangements
you can if the worst should happen until you are positive that you have done
all you can.  Then put it out of you mind knowing that it's not something
you have to worry about any more since you've done all you possibly can do
to take care of those matters.

*BUT*...  After you've done all that, pull yourself together, gather all
your strength and reserves of will power, and *CONVINCE* yourself that the
worst *WILL NOT HAPPEN*!  Don't allow even one iota of doubt to remain in
your mind.  You *WILL* be one of the 3 in 10 that *DOES* make it.  I can not
emphasis enough how important this is.  If you resign yourself to death, you
will die, but if you are determined to live you *can* beat this - it's as
simple as that.  It's been proven time and time again that the mind *can*
affect the body.

There are probably many people here who have been through similar crises,
some first-hand, some with loved ones.  They can give you advice in how to
cope.  Pam is a great resource - her courage is amazing.  But I think the
first thing any of them will tell you is exactly what I am saying - your
attitude going into this and all through this ordeal is paramount to the
outcome.

Please have courage, but more importantly have *faith* that you will get
through this!

As far as ranting on this newsgroup - well, I feel like that's what we're
here for.  I've found more support from this group than I have found in a
lot of people in RL.  I don't mind if you come here and write pages and
pages of rants.  I'll read every word you write and I'll try to help you get
through whatever stage you're going through.  I would expect the same from
you if the situation were reversed - so just know that whatever you would
put up with (and I know what that is since I've seen you compassion to
others here), that what you can expect us to put up with.

Hugs,

CatNipped
Christina Websell - 26 Apr 2005 22:28 GMT
> All right, I'm finally at a working computer.  Don't worry, I'm not going
> to fuss (much)!  ;>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> about how unfair it is that this happened to you.  You're due that, you
> deserve the emotional release.

Well, I have cried, obviously, every day.  Not only because I am afraid for
myself but because each time I tell a relative or friend they are
devastated.
I don't feel the need to shout and kick the furniture or curse God.  That
won't change anything, and anyway the last time I kicked something in a
temper I broke my big toe, 20 or more years ago.

> It *IS* unfair that this has happened to such a sweet, caring, loving, and
> giving person.  It absolutely *SUCKS*!  Go ahead and throw a really good
> tantrum until you feel completely drained.

Yes, it sucks.  However, bad things happen to good people too.  Which has
always seemed unfair to me.

> Next, think about the worse that can happen and make all the arrangements
> you can if the worst should happen until you are positive that you have
> done all you can.

That's what I'm trying to do.  Anyone want some pure breed chickens?  I
might be able to get a friend to take my two geese.

Then put it out of you mind knowing that it's not something
> you have to worry about any more since you've done all you possibly can do
> to take care of those matters.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> this - it's as simple as that.  It's been proven time and time again that
> the mind *can* affect the body.

Once I know my animals and birds will be cared for, I can put all my energy
into fighting this.

> There are probably many people here who have been through similar crises,
> some first-hand, some with loved ones.  They can give you advice in how to
> cope.  Pam is a great resource - her courage is amazing.

Pam's post has already inspired me, as have many of the others, but I truly
don't have the energy at the moment to reply to everyone, so just know that
I appreciate every single one, it really helps my morale.

I have to finish now, I feel too tired to continue.
Oh, I have to tell you ALL this.  Whether it's due to the purrs and prayers
or not my pain has lessened today, so please continue.   The power of the
purr might just be working again.

Tweed

But I think the
> first thing any of them will tell you is exactly what I am saying - your
> attitude going into this and all through this ordeal is paramount to the
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> CatNipped
Karen - 26 Apr 2005 22:42 GMT
I will always be praying for you, Tweed. You just go right ahead with posts
to the whole group. We don't expect individual replies. I love your
Boyfriend posts though, so I hope he continues to post with you. I think
sometimes it helps us too, to talk through our "alter egos" and sort things
out.

> > There are probably many people here who have been through similar crises,
> > some first-hand, some with loved ones.  They can give you advice in how to
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Tweed
Kreisleriana - 27 Apr 2005 00:22 GMT
>> All right, I'm finally at a working computer.  Don't worry, I'm not going
>> to fuss (much)!  ;>
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
>Tweed
Stinky says: Intensive purrs continuing for KFC's and BF's Mommy.

Prayers and thoughts from me, too.
 

Theresa
Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh
My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com
polonca12000 - 27 Apr 2005 10:22 GMT
I'm so very happy to hear you are feeling a little bit better.
Continued extra-strong purrs and best wishes - we are thinking of you,
Signature

Polonca & Soncek

<snip>
> Oh, I have to tell you ALL this.  Whether it's due to the purrs and prayers
> or not my pain has lessened today, so please continue.   The power of the
> purr might just be working again.
>
> Tweed
tanada - 27 Apr 2005 19:02 GMT
> Pam's post has already inspired me, as have many of the others, but I truly
> don't have the energy at the moment to reply to everyone, so just know that
> I appreciate every single one, it really helps my morale.

AHHH, h*ck.  I'm not supposed to be an inspiration, I'm supposed to be a
bad example.  A leader unto temptation.  Totally unhinged.  A person to
warn your children and cats about.  A reason not to visit North
Carolina.  In fact, a reason not to visit the USA.

Man, I'd better get out my b*d*ss notes and go over them again.

Pam S. who has a reputation to live up to.
Shirley - 26 Apr 2005 00:05 GMT
Purrs and healing thoughts from deepest Bedfordshire.

You're welcome to have my phone no. if you want, sometimes there are
things it's easier to say to a stranger than to close friends or
family.
Signature

Shirley
http://community.webshots.com/user/shirleycatuk

>> Tweed, have you heard anything from your doctors yet?
>
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Tweed
Christina Websell - 26 Apr 2005 01:08 GMT
> Purrs and healing thoughts from deepest Bedfordshire.
>
> You're welcome to have my phone no. if you want, sometimes there are
> things it's easier to say to a stranger than to close friends or
> family.

I might take you up on this after my op, which I am told is going to be just
awful, cut from sternum to pubis.  Gone are the days when a bad prognosis
was concealed from you.  I'm not entirely sure about this "tell it as it is
straight away" thing.  More delicate preparation is needed to take this news
in.  I was not told sensitively.  When a doctor came to my bed I asked what
chance he thought it might not be malignant.  He said "Well, patients can
always surprise us."    Very tactful (not)

Tweed
and if I go screamingly mad and post rubbish in the next few days, don't be
surprised.  Just humour me for now.
tanada - 26 Apr 2005 01:38 GMT
> Tweed
> and if I go screamingly mad and post rubbish in the next few days, don't be
> surprised.  Just humour me for now.

If the group could handle me as a basket case, they should have no
problems with handling anything you could toss into the gene pool.
Seriously, hang in there and think of it this way.  You won't have to
worry about wearing out your bikini now.  Isn't it scary to know that
your surgeon has a more intimate knowledge of your body that your
spouse/lover?

Pam S. who's thought about these things...
mlbriggs - 26 Apr 2005 01:38 GMT
>> Purrs and healing thoughts from deepest Bedfordshire.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> and if I go screamingly mad and post rubbish in the next few days, don't
> be surprised.  Just humour me for now.

Forty years ago I was mentally going through what you are going through.
Then I said to myself "I am not dead yet"  and that is what I said to
myself for the next five years....now it is 40 years later.

A year later my cousin got "the message".  She was ready to give up then
and there.  They even botched her  treatment  -- gave her radiation before
the surgery.  Still she made it    another 25 years until she was 90.

My boss got "the message" and was sure it was the end.  It is now 30 years
later and he is 89/

Don't give up -- just don't give up.  Say "I am here today".

Purrs and prayers that you can say "I'm here today"  for many, many more
years.  MLB
Howard Berkowitz - 26 Apr 2005 02:28 GMT
> > Purrs and healing thoughts from deepest Bedfordshire.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> be
> surprised.  Just humour me for now.

Of course, with purrs and hugs. Perhaps we might have a matching set, as
my incisions for coronary bypass went the length of the sternum, then
skipped down from groin to ankle.

If I may, I would like to address what is a legitimate and probably
major concern of yours: pain. When qualified pain management teams [1]
are involved, it is extremely rare that a person with advanced cancer
can't be made comfortable. Frankly, I was a little shocked to hear that
there was improper management in a UK hospital, since Dame Cicely
Saunders is the spiritual and technical mother not only of the modern
hospice movement, but was one of the pioneers in recognizing and
treating pain as a distinct entity.  Her name is one to invoke.

We have learned a great deal since her work.  A nurse before she became
a physician, many of her procedures came from careful observation and
experimentation.  At this point, we know immensely more about the
mechanisms of pain, and how to deal with it. Some things are as simple
as proper dosing, and others use complex mixtures of drugs and non-drug
therapies to manage specific situations.  If it would be useful, I can
go over what are reasonable expectations or approaches, here, by email,
or by phone.

You have a right to know what to expect at each stage, before and after
surgery. This is typically a nursing function.

Pain, and loss of control, is justifiably your first concern. It is a
reality, however, that people do survive. Obviously, there's no way to
predict in a specific case, especially before the pathologist examines
the tissue. As many here have said, there are options. Quality of life
is always an individual choice.  It's well to think of options, as you
do, but it is also possible that you may be a lucky one.  More and more
people become lucky every day.

Howard

[1] Modern pain management does involve a range of skills. Oncologists
   may well have some of them, but it's usually best to have the
   advice of an anesthesiologist with a subspecialty in pain management,
   nurses with specific cancer care experience, and a variety of other
   specialties.
Cheryl Perkins - 26 Apr 2005 11:46 GMT
> I might take you up on this after my op, which I am told is going to be just
> awful, cut from sternum to pubis.  Gone are the days when a bad prognosis
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> chance he thought it might not be malignant.  He said "Well, patients can
> always surprise us."    Very tactful (not)

My grandmother postponed a follow-up trip to her doctor after some tests.
He phoned her and said that she really must come to his office - "after
all, Mrs. A., you DO know you've got cancer, don't you?" Well, she did
then!

She recovered from that, and had many more years of life, and my mother is
still going strong after cancer - it must be 15 years or more since she
was diagnosed with an unusually aggressive and dangerous 'female' cancer.

Take care of yourself. We'll all be thinking of you.

Cheryl

Signature

Cheryl

Jeanette - 26 Apr 2005 23:49 GMT
> > Purrs and healing thoughts from deepest Bedfordshire.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> and if I go screamingly mad and post rubbish in the next few days, don't be
> surprised.  Just humour me for now.

Christina,

I had the same cut (they removed my left ovary, a six inch diameter cyst,
and my gall bladder ... co-incidental but unrelated problem). You will be
sicker than I was because of the chemo, but I had the operation on Friday
and was managing to walk up and down stairs by Sunday night (accompanied!)
You will have to learn how to 'roll' off the bed, as you won't be able to
sit up normally for at least a week. Good luck.

Jeanette
Christina Websell - 27 Apr 2005 00:57 GMT
>> > Purrs and healing thoughts from deepest Bedfordshire.
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Jeanette

I think I will be able to learn how to roll off the bed. My pain is easing a
bit now.  When I was in hospital I was in so much pain that I could hardly
move.  One night,  Tuesday last I could not even bear the touch of my
clothes.  They seemed to burn me.
I managed to turn over on to my side, it didn't help.  Then I found I was
right on the edge of the bed and in danger of falling out and I couldn't do
squit about it because it was agonising for me to move.

Now I know how people get bedsores.

I'm feeling tonight in less pain than I was, probly due to all your purrs
and prayers.  Could you keep them coming please
Howard Berkowitz - 27 Apr 2005 01:34 GMT
> >> > Purrs and healing thoughts from deepest Bedfordshire.
> >> >
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
> I'm feeling tonight in less pain than I was, probly due to all your purrs
> and prayers.  Could you keep them coming please

purrs and healing thoughts coming. It's too bad Mr. Clark can't visit;
he and I are volunteering as a therapy cat team.  He's exceptionally
sensitive and comforting -- and big enough to give hugs.

I hope you have already been told this, but it's so important in the
treatment of pain -- especially cancer pain -- that it is worth
repeating. Take your basic pain medication on a regular schedule, around
the clock if necessary. There are all sorts of physical and
psychological reasons why this is one of the essentials of pain
management.

You might be prescribed an additional "rescue" medication for
"breakthrough" pain, but "take as necessary" without a regular pain drug
is incredibly bad medicine.

For the bed, it can be very helpful to have a soft plastic foam pad
under the sheet. In the US, they call this egg-crate foam; it's not a
flat pad but has ridges and wells like a cardboard egg carton.  Again
here, these are single-patient-use. If the hospital doesn't give you one
-- be sure to ask before surgery. You should be able to take it home.

Many people find music comforting, so if you have some that you find
restful, try to get a headset and CD player for it.

Again, warm thoughts and sounds.  Mr. Clark sends nose kisses punctuated
with purrs.
Catnipped - 27 Apr 2005 02:04 GMT
> >> > Purrs and healing thoughts from deepest Bedfordshire.
> >> >
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> I'm feeling tonight in less pain than I was, probly due to all your purrs
> and prayers.  Could you keep them coming please

My best friend in RL is a nurse and I'll always remember what she told me
after my hysterectomy, "Let the bed do the work, don't try to rise up using
your abdominal muscles".  In other words, if you have an automatic bed in
hospital, use your button to sit it all the way up before you get out of the
bed.

Hugs,

CatNipped
Christine Burel - 27 Apr 2005 04:08 GMT
You know you have mega-purrs and purrayers from us here across the pond.
Thinking of you.
Christine and Omar, Oreo, Midnight, Robin & Tucker

> >> > Purrs and healing thoughts from deepest Bedfordshire.
> >> >
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> I'm feeling tonight in less pain than I was, probly due to all your purrs
> and prayers.  Could you keep them coming please
Jeanette - 27 Apr 2005 14:28 GMT
Remember to take clothes that are very very loose around the waist to
hospital with you. Knee length nightdresses are ideal, long enough to
preserve modesty when you're lying on top of the bed, short enough not to
tangle your feet in or impede catheters and stuff.  If you can get one that
buttons up the front, that would be even better, so that the nurses can
check your dressing.  You will probably not be able to bear underwear for at
least a week or so, with that scar, so the clothes you leave hospital in
should take that into account ;)

Don't worry about the scar or the cut at all, I got used to mine very
quickly, and it's just a part of me now.

Even if you HATE to  have visitors, try to get at least two a day organised,
to bring you nice things to eat and drink to stimulate your appetite. Take
wet wipes with you too, they're a life saver, and LOTS of chewing gum to
keep your mouth fresh for the first day or two when you won't be able to get
to the bathroom to brush your teeth. Beg, borrow or steal spare bathrobes,
nightdresses and slippers if you've not got them, just in case you do like
me and vomit all over everything in a spectacular fashion. Oh, and on that
point, don't worry about vomiting, the stitches / staples WILL hold.

Take earplugs with you, or you won't get enough sleep, and if you can, take
one of those nice blindfold things to cover your eyes at night, unless you
have a private room that you can have the lights off in.

I wish I lived closer to you, so that I could help more practically. Again,
good luck.

Jeanette
Jo Firey - 27 Apr 2005 19:11 GMT
All good advise but.

When I had my hysterectomy I did very well.  Not much pain etc.  But I did
make one HUGE mistake.  They weren't feeding me much.  And to be honest I
wasn't hungry and I'm in no danger of wasting away from missing a meal or
two.

About the fourth day a dear friend came by and brought me a treat.  One of
those yogurt/fruit/granola parfaits from McDonalds.   I ate it.  And ended
up with the gas pains from hell.  I thought I was going to die for about six
hours.

Next time I had abdominal surgery I followed a very careful diet.  No juice,
no sugar, no "gassy" foods.  No beverages with meals.  But plenty of fluids
an hour away from meals.  Seems anything sweet causes food to dump from the
stomach into the small intestine which goes into spasms.

Jo
> Remember to take clothes that are very very loose around the waist to
> hospital with you. Knee length nightdresses are ideal, long enough to
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
> Jeanette
Helen Wheels - 27 Apr 2005 14:28 GMT
> I'm feeling tonight in less pain than I was, probly due to all your purrs
> and prayers.  Could you keep them coming please

Definitely. We have unlimited amounts of purrs available; have as many
as you need!
tanada - 27 Apr 2005 19:12 GMT
> I think I will be able to learn how to roll off the bed. My pain is easing a
> bit now.  When I was in hospital I was in so much pain that I could hardly
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I'm feeling tonight in less pain than I was, probly due to all your purrs
> and prayers.  Could you keep them coming please

Who is going to stay with you after your surgery?  Please make sure that
they talk to the nursing staff and Drs. about the best ways to help you
move and take care of yourself.  There are a lot of things that can be
done to help you feel more comfortable.

When I had my hysterectomy, 18 years ago.  I was lucky and it was done
at a small community hospital with an advanced staff.  I was allowed to
get my pain meds on call, a concept that was new back than.  Before I
was sent home, the nurses talked to Rob and I about ways to sleep
comfortably with a "bikini cut" aka cesarean style incision.  I cannot
sleep on my back, so it was suggested that a pillow be used to get me at
an angle that was more comfortable for me.  Rob was also warned about
the hormonal changes that I'd probably (did) go through, and that I
wasn't going insane, or no more than usual.  Basically they put him
through a half hour class, even making him show them that he knew what
he'd be doing, by having him help me settle in for sleep.  If they could
only have talked to him about house work and laundry...

Pam S. keeping the purrs and healthy wishes up for you Christina
Elise - 28 Apr 2005 01:43 GMT
> I'm feeling tonight in less pain than I was, probly due to all your purrs
> and prayers.  Could you keep them coming please

Big rumbly purrs continuing for as long as you need them

Signature

Elise (supervised by Gossamer & Jeeves)
pics: http://photos.yahoo.com/dragonandthistle@snet.net

Shirley - 27 Apr 2005 00:49 GMT
>> Purrs and healing thoughts from deepest Bedfordshire.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> and if I go screamingly mad and post rubbish in the next few days,
> don't be surprised.  Just humour me for now.

OMG, sounds like a doc who needs to do some work on his bedside
manner.

If you want my phone no. e-mail me at shirleycatuk at ntlworld.com ,
or you can just e-mail me if you prefer :-)

Signature

Shirley
http://community.webshots.com/user/shirleycatuk

Yowie - 27 Apr 2005 04:05 GMT
> > Purrs and healing thoughts from deepest Bedfordshire.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I might take you up on this after my op, which I am told is going to be just
> awful, cut from sternum to pubis.

Not awful - just think of how many youngboys you can impress with *your*
scar!!!!!

> Gone are the days when a bad prognosis
> was concealed from you.  I'm not entirely sure about this "tell it as it is
> straight away" thing.  More delicate preparation is needed to take this news
> in.  I was not told sensitively.  When a doctor came to my bed I asked what
> chance he thought it might not be malignant.  He said "Well, patients can
> always surprise us."    Very tactful (not)

I dunno, sounds like a good surprise for him would be a punch in the nose!

I did a one card tarot reading for you with my "Cat People Tarot". I didn't
ask about the outcome, because I don't use Tarot to predict the future,
rather, I use it to understand the present more fully.

What I drew for you was: the page of swords.

I don't use traditional interpretations, just what the picture inspires in
me:

You will go in fully prepared and ready to fight, and fight you will,
although what you will be fighting is as much the cancer as it is the
unknown (doubt, fear, scepticism etc etc) The place you do your fighting
will have seen many previous battles, but it will seem like you are all
alone in a desolate barren waste. But you aren't alone, there's a symbolic
cat by your side who will go with you wherever you go, will fight right
along side you, will give you comfort and inspiration right in your darkest
hour (Which is all that you associate with cats - including RPCA, but also
the *spirit* of cats, dignity, strength in adversity, courage, independance,
etc etc). That place will be your turning point. As long as you stay alert
for those "unknown things" and keep pressing on, keeping the "cat" (dignity,
friendship, independance, a quiet ferocity etc etc) with you, I really do
think you'll get through this.

If you need to talk to someone in the dead of night, I'll be awake! I'll
forward you my contact details in case you just need a friendly voice in the
hemisphere where its still daylight outside :-)

Yowie
Christina Websell - 28 Apr 2005 01:59 GMT
>> > Purrs and healing thoughts from deepest Bedfordshire.
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Not awful - just think of how many youngboys you can impress with *your*
> scar!!!!!

Lol!  No thank you.

>> Gone are the days when a bad prognosis
>> was concealed from you.  I'm not entirely sure about this "tell it as it
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> I dunno, sounds like a good surprise for him would be a punch in the nose!

Previous to that he had been quite sensitive.  Sometimes they forget that a
real person is at the end of a diagnosis.

> I did a one card tarot reading for you with my "Cat People Tarot". I
> didn't
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Yowie

WOW!  I didn't know you did the Tarot.  I hope you are right.  It wouldn't
be a bad idea to send me your contact details in case I am doing a worry in
the night but I am trying really hard to be strong about this.
If I do ring you at all, I expect I shall say you sound really Australian!
The first time ever N rang me she said I sounded really English. So I said,
well of course I do, I *am* English.  I said she sounded German, too ;-)

I really appreciate the kind and helpful posts, even tho I can't reply to
most.  It is not because I don't want to, it's more I am too tired to.
I have taken note about the clothing, and avoiding wind, thanks.  While I
was in hosp, wind was a big issue for some.  We joked about playing tunes
all night.
None of us liked it, so embarrassing.
All gynae stuff is embarrassing for most women.  The doctors of course take
it all in their stride, but it is a big problem for me to be examined so
intimately.  I hate it.  At one stage I had things up every downstairs
orifice and it occurred to me that I might rather die than tolerate it any
more.
So much for my dignity.

Tweed
tanada - 28 Apr 2005 04:32 GMT
> I really appreciate the kind and helpful posts, even tho I can't reply to
> most.  It is not because I don't want to, it's more I am too tired to.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> more.
> So much for my dignity.

The procedure is embarrassing now, but think of it this way.  No more
periods, no more cramps, PMS is less, and You can toss any Birth Control.

I once accidentally passed gas in an OB/GYN's face.  I was so
embarrassed.  He just laughed and said that he was glad he wasn't a
proctologist.

Pam S. still blushing when she thinks about it
Howard Berkowitz - 28 Apr 2005 05:13 GMT
> > I really appreciate the kind and helpful posts, even tho I can't reply
> > to
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> embarrassed.  He just laughed and said that he was glad he wasn't a
> proctologist.

http://f2.org/humour/songs/crs.html
tanada - 28 Apr 2005 05:21 GMT
>>I once accidentally passed gas in an OB/GYN's face.  I was so
>>embarrassed.  He just laughed and said that he was glad he wasn't a
>>proctologist.
>
> http://f2.org/humour/songs/crs.html

Oh Gawd Howard this is so funny, I was crying while I read it to Rob.
Rob swears that they select flight surgeons and proctologists by
comparing potential doctors' fingers.  The normal and small ones go on
to other branches of medicine, those with huge fingers become flight
surgeons and proctologists.

Pam S.
Seanette Blaylock - 28 Apr 2005 06:38 GMT
tanada <tanada@earthlink.net> had some very interesting things to say
about Re: Ping Tweed:

>Oh Gawd Howard this is so funny, I was crying while I read it to Rob.
>Rob swears that they select flight surgeons and proctologists by
>comparing potential doctors' fingers.  The normal and small ones go on
>to other branches of medicine, those with huge fingers become flight
>surgeons and proctologists.

I thought the ones with the huge hands were routed to gynecology. :-)

Signature

"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be
doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding.

:-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL
Victor Martinez - 28 Apr 2005 14:09 GMT
> Oh Gawd Howard this is so funny, I was crying while I read it to Rob.
> Rob swears that they select flight surgeons and proctologists by
> comparing potential doctors' fingers.  The normal and small ones go on
> to other branches of medicine, those with huge fingers become flight
> surgeons and proctologists.

I understand the proctologists reference, but why would flight surgeons
need large fingers?

Signature

Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov
Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com

tanada - 28 Apr 2005 18:00 GMT
>> Oh Gawd Howard this is so funny, I was crying while I read it to Rob.
>> Rob swears that they select flight surgeons and proctologists by
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I understand the proctologists reference, but why would flight surgeons
> need large fingers?

Flight surgeons have to give FULL exams to aviators both in and out of
the military.  Every year Rob had to bend and spread em.

Pam S.
William Hamblen - 28 Apr 2005 18:14 GMT
>> Oh Gawd Howard this is so funny, I was crying while I read it to Rob.
>> Rob swears that they select flight surgeons and proctologists by
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>I understand the proctologists reference, but why would flight surgeons
>need large fingers?

They don't "need" the large fingers.  They just seem to "have" large
fingers when they poke where they poke.

Orthopods do tend to run big, as it takes a lot of strength to do some
of the things they need to do.
Howard Berkowitz - 28 Apr 2005 14:22 GMT
> >>I once accidentally passed gas in an OB/GYN's face.  I was so
> >>embarrassed.  He just laughed and said that he was glad he wasn't a
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> to other branches of medicine, those with huge fingers become flight
> surgeons and proctologists.

If you didn't click on the music link, do so -- it's even funnier when
they sing it.

On the same frontier, there's a tale of two physician brothers, a
psychiatrist and colorectal surgeon, who shared an office. Its sign read
"Odds and Ends".
HRFLTiger - 28 Apr 2005 17:28 GMT
tanada wrote:> > http://f2.org/humour/songs/crs.html

> Oh Gawd Howard this is so funny, I was crying while I read it to Rob.

> Rob swears that they select flight surgeons and proctologists by
> comparing potential doctors' fingers.  The normal and small ones go on
> to other branches of medicine, those with huge fingers become flight
> surgeons and proctologists.
>
> Pam S.

It's even funnier if you "listen" to the actual song - click on the MP3
link at the top of the page.

Helen M
Seanette Blaylock - 28 Apr 2005 06:06 GMT
tanada <tanada@earthlink.net> had some very interesting things to say
about Re: Ping Tweed:

>I once accidentally passed gas in an OB/GYN's face.  I was so
>embarrassed.  He just laughed and said that he was glad he wasn't a
>proctologist.
>Pam S. still blushing when she thinks about it

OK, that beats the one someone I once knew told me about the time she
kicked her GYN in the face during an exam (she said he had it coming,
but that it was NOT deliberate).

Signature

"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be
doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding.

:-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL
tanada - 28 Apr 2005 06:24 GMT
> OK, that beats the one someone I once knew told me about the time she
> kicked her GYN in the face during an exam (she said he had it coming,
> but that it was NOT deliberate).

Well, I also shot a speculum across the room.  Again it was totally
unintentional.  The OB/GYN said that he guessed he didn't need to say
anything about exercising my kegel muscles.  Fortunately, I missed the Dr.

Pam S. still blushing
Howard Berkowitz - 28 Apr 2005 05:09 GMT
> All gynae stuff is embarrassing for most women.  The doctors of course
> take
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> any
> more.

Ah, memories. The reasons behind it were long and complex, but I once
had an experience where a female friend wanted me to accompany her to an
online chat room, and to take on a female persona.  I dislike being
online other than as myself, but there were some unusual reasons here.

In the chat room, there was question if a couple of people were actually
female. Now, most of the trick questions should have been obvious to
anyone who had been married, such as pantyhose sizes.

At one point, however, someone put out a challenge to describe a pelvic
exam. Now, I'm not a physician, although I simulate them in medical
software. I have a good knowledge of anatomy. Further, my ex went to a
gynecologist that believed in teaching, and with selected couples, she
would coach the husband through performing a pelvic, in the interest of
the couple knowing each others' bodies. Yes, there were exercises in the
reverse direction.  I've also observed quite a few exams.

So, when challenged, I rapidly got into Too Much Information. My friend
whispered "do they really do all that? I just shut my eyes and wait for
it to be over."

I've observed that you can recognize a thoughtful gynecologist if they
cover their stirrups and warm their speculums. This gynecologist,
Martha, knitted oven mitts for the stirrups. One highly regarded male
gynecologist covered his stirrups with golf club covers.
tanada - 28 Apr 2005 05:13 GMT
> I've observed that you can recognize a thoughtful gynecologist if they
> cover their stirrups and warm their speculums. This gynecologist,
> Martha, knitted oven mitts for the stirrups. One highly regarded male
> gynecologist covered his stirrups with golf club covers.

The OB/GYN who did my hysterectomy covered his with padded faux fur.
Comfy.  After I joked about it, he even put pictures up on the ceiling
for us to stare at while he was doing the deed.

Pam S.
Yowie - 28 Apr 2005 05:47 GMT
> > I've observed that you can recognize a thoughtful gynecologist if they
> > cover their stirrups and warm their speculums. This gynecologist,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Comfy.  After I joked about it, he even put pictures up on the ceiling
> for us to stare at while he was doing the deed.

The stirrups in my birthing room were ice cold, but by the time I was
finally allowed to use them rather than having to hold my knees up around my
ears myself, I was very very grateful for them, icey cold or otherwise.
Sadly, because of hte insurance situation here in OZ, there is a terrible
shortage of obgyns, and so the ones you can get are gruesomely overworked
and any sense of humour they may have had has long since been lost. On a
'normal' day, my obgyn woke up at 4:30am to get to see his first patient in
the first hospital he attended at 6:30am, did the rounds at three seperate
hosptials, went to his clinic, saw patients between 10 and 4, and then went
back around to all the three hospitals to finish procedures. He apprantly
got home at about 10:30pm. And quite often got called out in the dead of
night and/or weekends when there was a birthing emergency at one of the
hospitals. While I'm sure the pay must have been stupendous, its not a
lifestyle I would wish on anyone. So I forgave his total lack of humour and
his very clinical and dry "just another uterus" attitude towards me. Quite
frankly I'm surprised how he could still be functional after 10 years of
that sort of work.

Yowie
tanada - 28 Apr 2005 06:29 GMT
> Sadly, because of hte insurance situation here in OZ, there is a terrible
> shortage of obgyns, and so the ones you can get are gruesomely overworked
> and any sense of humour they may have had has long since been lost.

Do they have Midwives in OZ?  Mandy was supposed to be delivered by one,
in spite of us being high risk, but she wasn't available. Rob's flight
surgeon, who was on call in the ER, signed the certificate and did all
stitching.  Mandy delivered herself.  Come to think of it, Jason was the
only one delivered by an OB/Gyn.  Mike was too fast for us all and was
caught by the delivery room nurse while I had one arm and leg on the
gurney and the other arm and leg on the delivery room table.  The doctor
arrived ten minutes later when we were in recovery.

Pam S. who doesn't do any thing in a normal manner
Yowie - 28 Apr 2005 13:36 GMT
>> Sadly, because of hte insurance situation here in OZ, there is a terrible
>> shortage of obgyns, and so the ones you can get are gruesomely overworked
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> gurney and the other arm and leg on the delivery room table.  The doctor
> arrived ten minutes later when we were in recovery.

We have midwives, yes, but they are mainly just sorta specialist nurses, and
they are there in the delivery ward as nurses first. Private midwives exist,
but they aren't covered by medicare, whereas obgyn services are, so only the
truly rich can have the services of a midwife of their choice and/or see
them outside of the actual delivery ward. Even my priavte insurance only
covers about 50% of their fee, and even at 50% discount, it was still
horrendous. Although I guess you can refuse to see the obgyns, even public
patients see an obgyn at least 5 times during the pregnancy, childbirth and
recovery phase. Having private insurance, I got to see the obgyn once a
month for the first 6 and a half months, every fortnight up until the eight
month, and then every week for the ninth month. Being over 30, I got a
'nuchel fold' ultrasound (that checks for a common down's syndrome marker)
as well at 12 weeks as well as the standard two at 18 weeks and 35 weeks.
The obgyn got to see and interpret all these ultrasounds, but most of the
time he just checked my pee, checked my blood pressure, checked to see
everythign was progressing as normal and towards the end, poked around my
tum to make sure Cary was pointed int he right direction (ie, pointed to the
Out). If I didn't have the private insurance, my GP would have taken care of
the more routine appointments, and I woul have been allocated an obgyn in my
area rather than being able to nominate (there's only 3 to choose from
unless I went to Sydney for all the appointments and birth)

Whilst the midwife in the birthing ward was very encourging and
enthusiastic, she couldn't actually give me any sort of medical procedure,
because it would first need a diagnosis and thats what doctors do. So even
though it was quite clear fairly early on in the labour I was going to need
assistance gettign Cary out, she couldn't even put me in the stirrups
without getting the obgyn's OK first. The only thing she could do was to
give me advice and let me have the gas amount the orginal doc had dialled
up - which stopped being effective long before Cary come out. She would have
had to get a doc's permission to turn the amount of, but I"ve only found
that out after the birth. I had to *ask* for it to be turned up, which I
didn't do. The only thing I did ask for was an epidural, which I got,
because I couldn't really think straight about much else, but all the
midwife could do was cheer me on and catch the baby on the way out. Anythign
remotely like medical intervention needs a doc. Stupid system.

Next time, I'm going through the public system. From what I"ve seen the
service is just as good or better than the private system, and I don't have
to pay a gap between what my insurance covers and what the people charge.
And if I never see the first midwife I had again, it will be too soon. She
was a class A1 certified 100% biatch.

Yowie
tanada - 29 Apr 2005 03:57 GMT
> Next time, I'm going through the public system. From what I"ve seen the
> service is just as good or better than the private system, and I don't have
> to pay a gap between what my insurance covers and what the people charge.
> And if I never see the first midwife I had again, it will be too soon. She
> was a class A1 certified 100% biatch.

As much as I admire everything I've read about Australia, so far, I
think your medical system needs help.  US midwives, at least in the
military hospital system, can do pretty much what a regular OB can do,
unless there are complications in which case a pre-arranged OB takes
over.  In my case, Mandy decided to be born on a Sunday, during a severe
wind storm, and on the day before they were going to induce labor,
because they didn't believe me when I said that I couldn't have gotten
pregnant before May 5th, when Rob came home on leave from Korea.

The MidWife that I saw through most of my pregnancy was pretty good, it
was the biatch who was doing the ultrasound and pressed down so hard
with her wand that I was spotting that caused me the most problems.  She
was a civilian and thought that women married into the military for the
freebees.  She resented having to do all those ultrasounds for us
freeloaders who were living off the public.  Since she was a civilian,
there wasn't a lot the military could do to her.  I complained about her
to the patient representative, but was told to get in line.

Since that time, the military has re-vamped it's system so that the
civilian medical personnel have to be more responsive to the patients.
But there was a time that anyone who was smart demanded to see a
military medico.

Pam S. who remembers how bad it was in the 80s
Howard Berkowitz - 29 Apr 2005 04:32 GMT
> > Next time, I'm going through the public system. From what I"ve seen the
> > service is just as good or better than the private system, and I don't
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> But there was a time that anyone who was smart demanded to see a
> military medico.

A nurse-midwife I knew (master's level midwifery trained) whispered to
me once "You know why we have the family boil water?  Midwives LOVE
pasta."  Well, Ann _was_ Italian...
Adrian - 29 Apr 2005 11:43 GMT
>> Sadly, because of hte insurance situation here in OZ, there is a
>> terrible shortage of obgyns, and so the ones you can get are
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Pam S. who doesn't do any thing in a normal manner

I was born at home and delivered by my father, the midwife had been
there earlier and said I wouldn't arrive for a few hours, so she'd gone
home to have breakfast. I think my father did well because he was
supervised by Figaro, our cat.
Signature

Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera)
A house is not a home, without a cat.

Howard Berkowitz - 28 Apr 2005 14:24 GMT
> > > I've observed that you can recognize a thoughtful gynecologist if
> > > they
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> shortage of obgyns, and so the ones you can get are gruesomely overworked
> and any sense of humour they may have had has long since been lost.

This is a very real problem in the US, for the same reasons. Here, many
OB/GYNs, such as Martha, have given up the obstetrical part of their
practice.  You tend to have groups doing obstetrics, which doesn't
always lead to the best continuity of care.

>On a
> 'normal' day, my obgyn woke up at 4:30am to get to see his first patient
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Yowie
Seanette Blaylock - 28 Apr 2005 06:35 GMT
tanada <tanada@earthlink.net> had some very interesting things to say
about Re: Ping Tweed:

>> I've observed that you can recognize a thoughtful gynecologist if they
>> cover their stirrups and warm their speculums. This gynecologist,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Comfy.  After I joked about it, he even put pictures up on the ceiling
>for us to stare at while he was doing the deed.

I do appreciate having something on the ceiling to look at. :-)

Have any of the other women in here found that female GYNs tend to be
gentler? That's been my experience.

Signature

"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be
doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding.

:-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL
pmendhall - 28 Apr 2005 06:57 GMT
> Have any of the other women in here found that female GYNs tend to be
> gentler? That's been my experience.

One I went to was gentler, the other was so rough I asked to have the male
doctor come in and finish the exam.  She left me spotting as well.

Diane
Howard Berkowitz - 28 Apr 2005 14:31 GMT
> > Have any of the other women in here found that female GYNs tend to be
> > gentler? That's been my experience.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Diane

My ex had an episode of sudden and severe abdominal pain. We headed off
to the ER.

Let me write out one of the unwritten laws of emergency medicine: "It is
impossible to diagnose abdominal pain in a woman of childbearing age
without at least two consultants."  Our primary physician, an excellent
internist, happened to be in the hospital, and came in to add his
impression along with that of the emergency physician, general surgeon,
and gynecologist.

Michael, the internist, had recently had a bad wrist sprain playing
tennis.  Unfortunately, in the midst of the pelvic, his wrist partially
dislocated with a loud POP, followed by separate screams from patient
and physician -- his hand had really jerked.

Comedy entered, as all three of us happened to be under treatment by the
same hand surgeon.  My ex waved a furious finger, and told our internist
"you don't touch me down there again until you have a note from Bruce
[the hand surgeon]."

Soon after, she and I were off to see the hand surgeon, and told him the
story.  We had forgotten some of his background:  he didn't initially go
into orthopedics and subspecialize in hand surgery. His first residency
was OB/GYN.

When he heard the episode, he was laughing so hard that tears ran down
his face. He called the internist and choked out dire warnings, probably
audible to everyone in his office.
HRFLTiger - 28 Apr 2005 17:33 GMT
> Let me write out one of the unwritten laws of emergency medicine: "It is
> impossible to diagnose abdominal pain in a woman of childbearing age
> without at least two consultants."  Our primary physician, an excellent
> internist, happened to be in the hospital, and came in to add his
> impression along with that of the emergency physician, general surgeon,
> and gynecologist.///

My mom gave birth to me in a Welsh teaching hospital. I was a full
feet-first breach birth. She has never forgiven me for the presence of
4 doctors, a surgeon, a midwife and 8 students being present while I
decided whether to arrive or not.

What can I say? I like to make an entrance in the presence of an
audience. ;o)

Helen M
Howard Berkowitz - 28 Apr 2005 22:37 GMT
> > Let me write out one of the unwritten laws of emergency medicine: "It
> is
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> What can I say? I like to make an entrance in the presence of an
> audience. ;o)

My equivalent audience show came when I was running clinical information
systems for Georgetown University Hospital.  One Sunday, my first wife
and I were reading the comics and kind of wrestled a little on the
bed...such that I lifted her, and she sat on my upraised thumb, bending
it backwards.  I heard a distinct CRUNCH.

My next comment was a calm AYYYIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE, which obviously should
mean "get off my thumb". She stroked my face and said, "Dear, I don't
understand."  WOOOWOOOAHAHAH eventually got the point across.

For some reason, I concluded my thumb was sprained, and strapped it and
iced it -- and then went on with daily living.  I didn't think all that
much of my fainting when I brushed it against something at work.

Eventually, though, several weeks later, it hurt so badly that I excused
myself from a meeting and looked for some physician I knew.  Finding the
head of virology, I asked "Bob, can I get some codeine or something to
get through this meeting? I think I do need to get an orthopod to look
at my hand."

"I can't write you a prescription."

"What, you think I'm a junkie?"

"No, I'm a pathologist."

"So? You're an MD. You're even an assistant professor at a medical
school."

"Exactly. As a pathologist, I don't have a current license to prescribe
for live people."  He brightened. "May I offer you an autopsy?"

We agreed that it would be a fine idea to get X-rays, and he filled out
a requisition. I took it to radiology, and got strange looks, which I
thought were due to my request to be paged when the films were read.
Patients, of course, don't usually make such requests.

My head buzzing from a deliberate overdose of aspirin, I returned to my
meeting, but was soon paged. My friend the pathologist called and told
me that my thumb was both dislocated and broken in five places. I was to
go to the orthopedic treatment room, and he had arranged for someone to
meet me.

When I got to orthopedics, I was quickly taken to the main treatment
room, the one used for demonstrations. The chief resident came in first,
followed by most of the faculty. The co-chair of the department
apologized that the other co-chair was operating.

"I appreciate the interest," assuming this was a courtesy to another
faculty member. "But (counts) about 14 orthopedists a bit much for one
thumb?"

"You don't understand. My secretary called and said pathology was
sending us a patient. When the X-rays arrived, they were on a cadaver
examination form.  All of us HAD to see what pathology was sending us."
Cheryl Perkins - 29 Apr 2005 12:17 GMT
> My mom gave birth to me in a Welsh teaching hospital. I was a full
> feet-first breach birth. She has never forgiven me for the presence of
> 4 doctors, a surgeon, a midwife and 8 students being present while I
> decided whether to arrive or not.

> What can I say? I like to make an entrance in the presence of an
> audience. ;o)

One of my friends said that after you've had a child (she had four) in a
teaching hospital, you've lost all sense of modesty. I suppose the
students have to learn with real people sooner or later!

Actually, there are healthy volunteers - male and female - who let medical
students perform examinations, including internal ones, on them. I do like
volunteer work, but that's one kind I really don't think I'll be enquiring
about any time soon!

One male student was very nervous about his first breast exam with a
female. He had to be informed by the instructor that two thumbs up, a big
relieved smile, and 'They're great!' was perhaps not the most professional
way to discuss the results of the exam with the volunteer 'patient'.

I thought it sounded kind of cute.

Signature

Cheryl

Howard Berkowitz - 29 Apr 2005 17:50 GMT
> > My mom gave birth to me in a Welsh teaching hospital. I was a full
> > feet-first breach birth. She has never forgiven me for the presence of
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> I thought it sounded kind of cute.

I've spent a fair bit of time in teaching hospitals, both as staff and
as a patient. In general, I manage to keep some of the annoyances as a
patient down -- for example, I write up a very good history, the sort
that a medical student needs, and run off 30 or so copies.  When a
student wakes me to practice history taking, I hand them a copy, tell
them this is what they need and I'm going back to sleep.

Now, this does mean that the students and residents learn that I know
the system, including its cliches.  Just before bypass surgery, I had
three students show up to do rectals. Rather firmly, I questioned the
relevance of that extensive a ...base...workup given the procedure I was
having.

The leader of the pack got a demented grin and gave me the traditional
response of a senior resident to a student, after the resident tells
them to do something they really don't want to do: "Just think of it as
a learning experience."
Yowie - 28 Apr 2005 06:10 GMT
<snip>

> WOW!  I didn't know you did the Tarot.  I hope you are right.  It wouldn't
> be a bad idea to send me your contact details in case I am doing a worry in
> the night but I am trying really hard to be strong about this.

I don't usually do the Tarot, and I don't do it in the usual way that most
Tarot readers do. I'm kinda weird in that I don't want to know the future,
its specifically not for me to know and it makes my head really hurt if I
start thinking about the paradox of seeing the future and then changing the
present to avoid said future. Mainly I just use if for inspiration,
meditation and a deeper understanding of my own thoughts. And besides,
people will read into it what they want to read (me included), and in that
way at least it works in the same way ink blots do, but tarot cards -
particular the Cat People set - are far prettier :-)

> If I do ring you at all, I expect I shall say you sound really Australian!
> The first time ever N rang me she said I sounded really English. So I said,
> well of course I do, I *am* English.  I said she sounded German, too ;-)

Technically, I'm English too. To an Aussie with a vry broad accent, I sound
like I have a slight Pommie accent, but to proper English person, I probably
sound 'dinkum' enough. And I can make the accent stronger if it will cheer
you up :-)

I tried to e-mail you before, and I'm not sure it will get through. If you
don't have my contact details by now, just send a note to yowie9644 (at)
yahoo (dot) com (dot) au with your addy and I'll get back to you,

> All gynae stuff is embarrassing for most women.  The doctors of course take
> it all in their stride, but it is a big problem for me to be examined so
> intimately.  I hate it.  At one stage I had things up every downstairs
> orifice and it occurred to me that I might rather die than tolerate it any
> more.
> So much for my dignity.

Think of cats. Yes, ob/gyn stuff is embarassing, but if a cat can still
retain its dignity whilst washing every part of itself,  you can and will
manage to endure the very necessary medical examinations carried out by a
trained and proffesional doctor. Its undignified true, but its still not
half as humiliating as than having to wipe your butt with your own tongue
whilst other people - strangers even - get to watch :-)

Yowie
Marina - 29 Apr 2005 19:14 GMT
> If I do ring you at all, I expect I shall say you sound really Australian!
> The first time ever N rang me she said I sounded really English. So I said,
> well of course I do, I *am* English.  I said she sounded German, too ;-)

Having spoken to Vicky (Yowie) on the phone, I can say she *does* sound
very Australian. :o) IIRC, she and Hazel thought I sounded German. :oP

Signature

Marina, Frank, Nikki, and Mere
marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Christina Websell - 30 Apr 2005 00:15 GMT
>> If I do ring you at all, I expect I shall say you sound really
>> Australian!
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Having spoken to Vicky (Yowie) on the phone, I can say she *does* sound
> very Australian. :o) IIRC, she and Hazel thought I sounded German. :oP

So Yowie's thought that she might sound a bit English is out of the window
then?
I'm holding off calling anyone just yet until I get more terminal,