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I have been to my clinic...

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CATherine - 24 Feb 2005 04:43 GMT
The doctor wasn't there but a Nurse practitioner was there. She is
great. Very knowledgeable and helpful and answers my questions and
gave me the most thorough heart exam I ever had.

She told me i only had to cut my salt, fat and cholesterol in half
after she got my full life history! I told you she was thorough! She
got all my eating habits. Since I usually only eat one meal a day, I
wasn't eating as much of the bad stuff as i thought. A lot for one
meal, though. Of course, she would rather I spread the consumption out
into more, smaller meals.

She gave me two BP meds at minimal dose, she will work up from there.
And took blood. Now that was a job! I ended up with 9 pokes in my arms
and hand! I was dehydrated from fasting and they made me go drink a
ton of water and then they poked me again. They finally managed to get
enough blood for the various tests. CBC and cholesterol, that I know
of. She said she wanted to check my liver function and whether i was
anemic.

Since I don't have insurance, she sold me the meds from the clinic at
cost. They do that only for those patients without insurance. $20 for
the two bottles for two months. A good savings. But she would like me
to get company insurance as now I am in the age and health bracket
where I am going to need it.  I am thinking about it. But it is
expensive. That is like $80 a month for the premium and then the
co-pays for the doctor and meds, etc. A lot of money in the long run.
But I have time to think about it as i can't enrol until November.

Sometimes when i expend a good bit of effort in my job, i feel a
heaviness in my chest. i know that is the high blood pressure pushing
against all the cholesterol plaque in my blood vessels. I have been a
bad girl all my life the way I have always eaten.

Well, maybe I can write more tomorrow. Life is full and eventful
lately.

--
CATherine
Katz - 24 Feb 2005 14:00 GMT
Since I usually only eat one meal a day, I
> wasn't eating as much of the bad stuff as i thought. A lot for one
> meal, though. Of course, she would rather I spread the consumption out
> into more, smaller meals.

Definitely! Going hungry al day makes you eat more when you finally
eat. And screws w/your blood sugar. Maybe that's partly why you felt
faint.

! I was dehydrated from fasting and they made me go drink a
> ton of water and then they poked me again.

Wow! Had they told you not to drink water, either? Doesn't mae sense,
if it ends up dehydrating you.

> Since I don't have insurance, she sold me the meds from the clinic at
> cost. They do that only for those patients without insurance. $20 for
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> co-pays for the doctor and meds, etc. A lot of money in the long run.
> But I have time to think about it as i can't enrol until November.

$20 for 2 bottles for 2 months is an UNBELIEVABLE savings! I suspect
you have no idea of the cost of drugs. (Or are you not in the U.S.?)
With my company insurance, I pay $30 for 1 drug for 3 months for
generic, & $50 for 1 drug for 3 months for in-formulary (approved)
brand name drugs. And that's mail order. At a pharmacy it would cost
more.

I would encourage you to DEFINITELY get company insurance. Again, you
have no idea. Ours just went up, as it does every year, & I think mine
is $80/month also, on a plan w/100% coverage. Why in the world do you
have to wait til Nov. to sign up? How long a wait period does your
company have? I never heard of more than a 3-month wait. I think no
wait is more common. Mine is no wait.

I have health problems too. I eat poorly, don't exercise. I take
statins for high cholesterol. I have high glycerides too. :( My BP,
oddly, is good, even though my mom & brother both have high BP. And now
I take 1 "child's aspirin" a day for my C-reactive protein, an
indicator of heart disease. :(

Insurance, prescriptions, etc. are something I know a little about,
unfortunately. LOL.

Katz
Nan - 24 Feb 2005 17:35 GMT
>I would encourage you to DEFINITELY get company insurance. Again, you
>have no idea. Ours just went up, as it does every year, & I think mine
>is $80/month also, on a plan w/100% coverage. Why in the world do you
>have to wait til Nov. to sign up? How long a wait period does your
>company have? I never heard of more than a 3-month wait. I think no
>wait is more common. Mine is no wait.

Some companies require that you sign up for insurance when you are
first hired.  If you don't you have to wait for an open enrollment
period.

Nan
Monique Y. Mudama - 24 Feb 2005 17:51 GMT
>>I would encourage you to DEFINITELY get company insurance. Again, you have
>>no idea. Ours just went up, as it does every year, & I think mine is
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Nan

I always thought this was a legal issue.  At both my company and my husband's,
benefits can only be changed during the enrollment period, or if there's a
change in your family situation (marriage, new dependent, or someone changes
jobs).

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

jmcquown - 25 Feb 2005 01:16 GMT
>>> I would encourage you to DEFINITELY get company insurance. Again,
>>> you have no idea. Ours just went up, as it does every year, & I
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> or if there's a change in your family situation (marriage, new
> dependent, or someone changes jobs).

I worked in the insurance industry in one shape or form for years.  Was even
a licensed agent at one point, although I never "sold" insurance.  For group
benefits, they can indeed only change the plan provisions during open
enrollment.  But an insurer gives you 30 days to opt for the group plan and
if you pass it up you are then subject to evidence of insurability rules.
You may add or change dependent status at any time within 30 days of the
qualifying event (birth, marriage, loss of a job).

I have an individual policy I took out when I lost my job but due to the
$500 deductible and the lack of Rx drug coverage I'll only use it if I wind
up in the hospital.

Jill
John F. Eldredge - 25 Feb 2005 04:20 GMT
>>>I would encourage you to DEFINITELY get company insurance. Again, you have
>>>no idea. Ours just went up, as it does every year, & I think mine is
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>change in your family situation (marriage, new dependent, or someone changes
>jobs).

According to what I have been told at my present job, and at previous
jobs that had insurance, this is a Federal law.

Signature

John F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com
PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

Howard Berkowitz - 26 Feb 2005 00:41 GMT
> >>I would encourage you to DEFINITELY get company insurance. Again, you
> >>have
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> changes
> jobs).

It really depends on the contracts. Usually, it's a matter of
administrative convenience to limit the times of changing coverage to an
"open period." In general, an exception is made for "major life events"
adding or deleting dependents.  The latter may be rooted in
antidiscrimination law, but, if a company and its insurer(s) chose,
there's no reason they couldn't change at will.
CATherine - 25 Feb 2005 05:20 GMT
> Since I usually only eat one meal a day, I
>> wasn't eating as much of the bad stuff as i thought. A lot for one
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>eat. And screws w/your blood sugar. Maybe that's partly why you felt
>faint.

Maybe, but my blood oxygen was only 88. But i do eat a few of those
peanut/cheese crackers at noon on a work day. Or grab a peice of
chocolate from the basket at the office. But that day the dizziness
started pretty early in the day. Right after the nose bleed at 9:30,
in fact.

>! I was dehydrated from fasting and they made me go drink a
>> ton of water and then they poked me again.
>
>Wow! Had they told you not to drink water, either? Doesn't mae sense,
>if it ends up dehydrating you.

No, I had coffee; but of course it is a diuretic. I haven't had blood
drawn in so many years i had forgotten to hydrate myself. i am hard to
get blood out of; and hard to get a needle in the vein. Next time i
won't have coffee and will make sure i have plenty of water before
leaving home.

>> Since I don't have insurance, she sold me the meds from the clinic at
>> cost. They do that only for those patients without insurance. $20 for
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>brand name drugs. And that's mail order. At a pharmacy it would cost
>more.

Oh, I know the cost of meds. I live in the US. The clinic sold them to
me at thier cost. They would have been far more expensive at a regular
pharmacy. The clinic did me a great favor.

>I would encourage you to DEFINITELY get company insurance. Again, you
>have no idea. Ours just went up, as it does every year, & I think mine
>is $80/month also, on a plan w/100% coverage. Why in the world do you
>have to wait til Nov. to sign up? How long a wait period does your
>company have? I never heard of more than a 3-month wait. I think no
>wait is more common. Mine is no wait.

A new hire can get ins after the 3month probation period. But I am a
12 year veteran. I can get it only during Open Enrolment in November;
which goes into effect for the following January. I guess it takes
that long to process the paperwork. I have gotten the "catalogs" for
the two plans my company carries; Kaiser and Cigna. I will spend the
next few months trying to study them. I know little about insurance or
how it works. I want to make the best choice for my needs as well as
my limited budget. I have to consider co-pays and premiums.

>I have health problems too. I eat poorly, don't exercise. I take
>statins for high cholesterol. I have high glycerides too. :( My BP,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Katz

--
CATherine
wafflycat - 25 Feb 2005 10:41 GMT
>> Since I usually only eat one meal a day, I
>>> wasn't eating as much of the bad stuff as i thought. A lot for one
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> started pretty early in the day. Right after the nose bleed at 9:30,
> in fact.

Can I make a suggestion? Try to give up the peanut butter, cheese &
chocolate - for a while at least. Nice as they are (and I love all three),
they are *loaded* with fat, salt, sugar, calories and are not good for you!
Currently, when shopping, I force myself to walk down the cheese & chocolate
aisles in the supermarket to prove to myself I can refuse to succumb to
temptation. I feel better when I do that as it reinforces my willpower - and
heaven knows, it needs all the reinforcing it can get ;-) Plus, you'll get
your cholesterol levels down to healthy limits quicker if you avoid the bad
stuff - keep reminding yourself this is for *your health*.

Also - try to eat three healthy meals a day. Breakfast is *crucial* - if you
have a decent breakfast it helps stave off hunger pangs and you are less
likely to reach for unhealthy snacks. I always start the day with a piece of
fruit and some fibre, such as porridge (oatmeal) or a wholemeal roll (no
butter!). I am now well able to keep going until it's time for a healthy
lunch - and I feel much better for it.

>>! I was dehydrated from fasting and they made me go drink a
>>> ton of water and then they poked me again.

You *must* keep hydrated. Water is best, but if you don't like plain water,
have a fruit squash or a diet drink.

>>Wow! Had they told you not to drink water, either? Doesn't mae sense,
>>if it ends up dehydrating you.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> won't have coffee and will make sure i have plenty of water before
> leaving home.

I find if I keep a bottle of water with me, I can sip as much as I like and
I just keep refilling the bottle.

FWIW, since middle of December I've lost 39lbs with relative ease - and I've
hardly had any cravings. I feel better for it too. I'm eating healthily and
well. I've still a long way to go, so I understand what it's like having to
accept a long-term lifestyle change.

Cheers, and best of luck, helen s
CATherine - 26 Feb 2005 03:32 GMT
>Can I make a suggestion? Try to give up the peanut butter, cheese &
>chocolate - for a while at least. Nice as they are (and I love all three),
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
>Cheers, and best of luck, helen s

I like oatmeal with a slice of toast with at least a skim of butter.
Otherwise, i like bran flakes with dried cranberries and a few chopped
pecans. I just need to get in the habit of eating breakfast every day.

But once in a great while when I have the weekend off, I will make my
son and i a brunch of fat and cholesterol! You know, eggs, bacon or
sausage, pancakes, hash browns....

Congrats on losing so much weight in such a short time!

--
CATherine
John F. Eldredge - 25 Feb 2005 14:00 GMT
>> Since I usually only eat one meal a day, I
>>> wasn't eating as much of the bad stuff as i thought. A lot for one
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>started pretty early in the day. Right after the nose bleed at 9:30,
>in fact.

That blood oxygen level is pretty low, also.  Lack of oxygen may have
been contributing to the dizziness.  Do you regularly have that low a
blood oxygen level?

Signature

John F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com
PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

CATherine - 26 Feb 2005 03:27 GMT
>>> Since I usually only eat one meal a day, I
>>>> wasn't eating as much of the bad stuff as i thought. A lot for one
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>been contributing to the dizziness.  Do you regularly have that low a
>blood oxygen level?

My oxy level is usually in the mid nineties.I don't know why it was so
low at that time.

--
CATherine
Monique Y. Mudama - 28 Feb 2005 17:18 GMT
> A new hire can get ins after the 3month probation period. But I am a 12 year
> veteran. I can get it only during Open Enrolment in November; which goes
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> choice for my needs as well as my limited budget. I have to consider co-pays
> and premiums.

I believe that Kaiser is typically an HMO; I have always been able to choose a
PPO, and I much prefer those, even though they're more expensive.

With a PPO, you get insurance coverage, though lower, even if you see a doctor
outside of your network.  That's important to me.  I don't know if this is
typical for PPOs, but I've also always been able to see a specialist without
having to get authorization from my regular doctor first, and that saves
valuable time.

But all of that is just my preference.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Mary - 28 Feb 2005 17:33 GMT
> > A new hire can get ins after the 3month probation period. But I am a 12 year
> > veteran. I can get it only during Open Enrolment in November; which goes
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> I believe that Kaiser is typically an HMO

I just want to say that I used Kaiser Permanente until they were literally
run out of North Carolina. They are HORRIBLE if you actually get sick.
You have to fight tooth and nail for a referral to a specialist, and they
were at that time the ONLY HMO with no feedback system in place.
Every phone call ended up in a runaround that had to be intentional.
I now pay for my own insurance, a full plan--not something everyone
can do, but after my experience with Kaiser, I am williing to spend
the money on good care in which I am not at the mercy of
bureaucrats and neither is my doctor.
Monique Y. Mudama - 24 Feb 2005 18:00 GMT
> The doctor wasn't there but a Nurse practitioner was there. She is great.
> Very knowledgeable and helpful and answers my questions and gave me the most
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> the bad stuff as i thought. A lot for one meal, though. Of course, she would
> rather I spread the consumption out into more, smaller meals.

Eek!  I'd rather you eat more small meals, too =P  Your blood sugar won't
spike as much and your stomach will also shrink, allowing you to feel full
with less food.  Me, I couldn't survive on one meal a day.  I'm on the five or
six meal plan =P

> Since I don't have insurance, she sold me the meds from the clinic at cost.
> They do that only for those patients without insurance. $20 for the two
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> money in the long run.  But I have time to think about it as i can't enrol
> until November.

FWIW, those medication prices sound tiny to me.  

I've never been without health insurance; it would terrify me.  As I
understand it, a major reason to get health insurance is the problem of
pre-existing conditions.  If there are no gaps in your insurance coverage,
insurance companies have to take you, even if you have a major problem like
cancer or something.  But if you get diagnosed with something and don't have
insurance, they're no longer required to accept you.  Something like that.  I
may have my facts wrong.

I can't imagine not having health insurance, and specifically a PPO where I
can go to a specialist without needing a doctor's note first.  I had a problem
with my wrist last year -- I'm not sure if it's really fixed yet, but just the
MRI cost $1500 or so, of which I paid maybe $150.  But I also had several sets
of xrays, several doctor's visits, and a cortizone injection.  That's just for
one little thing.  DH was hospitalized twice, each time totalling over $10K in
costs, the vast majority of which the insurance company picked up.  And
insurance companies typically 100% cover routine preventative stuff, like yearly
checkups, which can add up.

Sorry; I don't mean to preach.  Obviously you should do what you think is
best.  It would make me very uncomfortable to not have health insurance.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Katz - 24 Feb 2005 19:18 GMT
> I've never been without health insurance; it would terrify me.  As I
> understand it, a major reason to get health insurance is the problem of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> insurance, they're no longer required to accept you.  Something like that.  I
> may have my facts wrong.

I would never want to be w/o insurance, either. I have several mild
chronic conditions that need pills, Dr. visits, etc. You've got the
facts just about right. It's part of the HIPPA law. You're allowed to
go w/o insurance for something like 100 days (?). I had to literally
count the days when I was laid off, then worked temp-to-hire w/o
insurance for 3 months. I just made the cut-off time for how long you
can be w/o insurance. I stocked up on my meds on my old plan, so I
wouldn't have to pay extra for them. I didn't want to pick up the COBRA
for that short a time. You don't have to get COBRA right away. You can
wait.

Katz
jmcquown - 25 Feb 2005 01:22 GMT
>> I've never been without health insurance; it would terrify me.  As I
>> understand it, a major reason to get health insurance is the problem
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Katz

LOL I'm sorry, but that strikes me as funny.  COBRA (Consolidated Omnibus
Budget Reconciliation Act) - I wrote the friggin book on it for The
Prudential when it went into law in the 1980's.  Try paying those premiums -
you'll see exactly what your employer was paying for your health benefits.
Used to irk me no end when people would gripe they had to kick in $100 a
month for family health insurance.  Take a look at the *real* premiums
sometime.  As it is I'm paying $124/month for individual stand-alone
coverage and probably lucky to have it.

I'm so fortunate my doctor gives me free samples of the meds I need for my
stuff when he has them on hand.  Prices for prescriptions are through the
roof.

Jill
Seanette Blaylock - 25 Feb 2005 02:22 GMT
"jmcquown" <jmcquown@bellsouth.net> had some very interesting things
to say about COBRA (WAS: Re: I have been to my clinic...):

>LOL I'm sorry, but that strikes me as funny.  COBRA (Consolidated Omnibus
>Budget Reconciliation Act) - I wrote the friggin book on it for The
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>sometime.  As it is I'm paying $124/month for individual stand-alone
>coverage and probably lucky to have it.

You'd have probably gone into screaming rages here in Californa about
a year and a half ago. The grocery workers went on strike because the
poor babies were being asked to kick in up to $40/month for their very
generous medical coverage. Infuriated me, when I was making less than
they did (on a job that required a good deal more training and
know-how) and was being asked to pay higher grocery prices so I could
pay for their health insurance when I couldn't afford it for myself
and DH (believe me, I'd have had MUCH higher premiums than they were
being asked to pay). Heaven forbid the poor special widdle babies
should have to kick in even a cent for what they were getting like 95%
of their customers had to.

Signature

"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be
doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding.

:-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 26 Feb 2005 23:37 GMT
> You'd have probably gone into screaming rages here in Californa about
> a year and a half ago. The grocery workers went on strike because the
> poor babies were being asked to kick in up to $40/month for their very
> generous medical coverage.

I side completely with the workers on that one!  When my
brother belonged to the electrician's union (He's retired,
now), one of the benefits of union membership was that you
and your entire family had medical coverage.  Gradually the
influence of the labor unions has been eroded away, so that
is often no longer true.

 Infuriated me, when I was making less than
> they did (on a job that required a good deal more training and
> know-how))

Rather than complain because some workers are willing to go
on strike for three months in an attempt to RETAIN the
benefits they were promised when hired, perhaps the rest of
us should have the courage to insist upon decent benefits
before we take a job!  I know work is harder to find, these
days (thanks to the people in power), but if EVERYONE
demanded a living wage and proper benefits, employers would
eventually be forced to comply. (In most cases, they'd
simply be restoring what was pretty much the status quo, in
the 1950's.)

America USED to be the best country in the world for the
working-man, but much of Europe passed us up a long time
ago.  Aside from their universal health care, most of our
European counterparts pity us our two (or at most three)
weeks annual vacation.  (I know some people get more, but
I'm talking of average, working-class, here.)
L. (usenetlyn) - 27 Feb 2005 09:26 GMT
> You'd have probably gone into screaming rages here in Californa about
> a year and a half ago. The grocery workers went on strike because the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> should have to kick in even a cent for what they were getting like 95%
> of their customers had to.

That was pretty infuriating!  It was a boon for Trader Joe's and Whole
Foods, though.

-L.
Jeanne Hedge - 25 Feb 2005 03:37 GMT
>LOL I'm sorry, but that strikes me as funny.  COBRA (Consolidated Omnibus
>Budget Reconciliation Act) - I wrote the friggin book on it for The
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>sometime.  As it is I'm paying $124/month for individual stand-alone
>coverage and probably lucky to have it.

I was paying $366/month under COBRA (which only lasts 18 up to months)
to continue what I had under my previous employer (Blue Cross/Blue
Shield PPO $500 deductable w/prescription plan co-pay). I tried to get
individual stand-alone (went to the local insurance agent) because
COBRA rates were killing my limited budget, and got denied for reasons
neither of us understand. I ended up getting into a 6-month temporary
plan (renewable) paying about 1/3 of the COBRA rate for individual
stand-alone, but it's not as good as what I had (classic case of you
get what you pay for).

>I'm so fortunate my doctor gives me free samples of the meds I need for my
>stuff when he has them on hand.  Prices for prescriptions are through the
>roof.

I have a deductable on my prescriptions that's completely seperate
from my medical deductable. I'd better not start having to get
prescriptions filled - once I clear the prescription deductable
they'll only pay $2K max before that part of my coverage ends and I
have to pay it all.

Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha

============
http://www.jhedge.com
jmcquown - 25 Feb 2005 17:27 GMT
>> LOL I'm sorry, but that strikes me as funny.  COBRA (Consolidated
>> Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act) - I wrote the friggin book on it
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> stand-alone, but it's not as good as what I had (classic case of you
> get what you pay for).

By its very definition, "group" insurance better because of the spread of
risk among a wider population of insureds.  So the benefit levels can be
much higher and include yearly checkups and coverage for preventive medicine
such as flu shots, GYN exams, etc.  But as you discovered, your employer was
probably kicking in a considerable amount towards your benefits.  Most
people have no idea.

>> I'm so fortunate my doctor gives me free samples of the meds I need
>> for my stuff when he has them on hand.  Prices for prescriptions are
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha

Purrs that you don't wind up needing any type of maintenance medication and
that you find a job soon!

Jill
badwilson - 25 Feb 2005 02:38 GMT
>> The doctor wasn't there but a Nurse practitioner was there. She is
>> great. Very knowledgeable and helpful and answers my questions and
>> gave me the most thorough heart exam I ever had.
>>
>> She told me i only had to cut my salt, fat and cholesterol in half
>> after she got my full life history! I told you she was thorough!
She
>> got all my eating habits. Since I usually only eat one meal a day,
I
>> wasn't eating as much of the bad stuff as i thought. A lot for one
>> meal, though. Of course, she would rather I spread the consumption
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> with less food.  Me, I couldn't survive on one meal a day.  I'm on
> the five or six meal plan =P

Yes, same here.  Eating 5 or 6 small meals a day is much better for
you for the reasons Monique mentioned.  Eating 1 large meal a day will
also slow your metabolism to a grinding halt.  Do not do it!!!
--
Britta
Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that's
covered in fur!
Check out pictures of Vino at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album
CATherine - 25 Feb 2005 05:20 GMT
>> The doctor wasn't there but a Nurse practitioner was there. She is great.
>> Very knowledgeable and helpful and answers my questions and gave me the most
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>with less food.  Me, I couldn't survive on one meal a day.  I'm on the five or
>six meal plan =P

It is kind of hard to have several meals a day in my job, let alone
noon. I find I cannot do my job with a full meal under my belt. So the
most I do is peanut butter/cheese crackers or a candy bar. I tried
carrots and celery but they were not satisfying and left my stomach
rumbling.

--
CATherine
Karen - 25 Feb 2005 06:24 GMT
>>> The doctor wasn't there but a Nurse practitioner was there. She is great.
>>> Very knowledgeable and helpful and answers my questions and gave me the most
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> --
> CATherine

Catherine, think about getting one of those little portable coolers and put
some mozzerlla sticks and veggie sacks in it. Also baggie up some little
serving size bags of nuts. Those are good snacks that are pretty portable
and actually go a long way to helping you even you out during the day. Or
even, if you enjoy it, some little yogurts. Just eating veggies alone, I
agree, may not do it, but if you also have some nuts or mozzerella, it will
really help. I also like those little tins of chicken. And actually, a
veggie that does help me past hunger is sliced up cucumber with salt and
pepper that you can put in a baggie too and munch on. Grapes are very good
as well. Hope some of these ideas help.
L. (usenetlyn) - 25 Feb 2005 07:13 GMT
> Catherine, think about getting one of those little portable coolers and put
> some mozzerlla sticks and veggie sacks in it. Also baggie up some little
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> pepper that you can put in a baggie too and munch on. Grapes are very good
> as well. Hope some of these ideas help.

Anything with protein will help stave off the hunger.  Dry roasted
almonds are a good one - and they have been shown to lower cholesterol,
too.  Any low-fat cheese (cottage, mozzarella) are good, as well.

-L.
badwilson - 25 Feb 2005 07:38 GMT
>>>> The doctor wasn't there but a Nurse practitioner was there. She is
>>>> great. Very knowledgeable and helpful and answers my questions
and
>>>> gave me the most thorough heart exam I ever had.
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>>> Eek!  I'd rather you eat more small meals, too =P  Your blood sugar
>>> won't spike as much and your stomach will also shrink, allowing
you
>>> to feel full with less food.  Me, I couldn't survive on one meal a
>>> day.  I'm on the five or
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> and put some mozzerlla sticks and veggie sacks in it. Also baggie up
> some little serving size bags of nuts. Those are good snacks that
are
> pretty portable and actually go a long way to helping you even you
> out during the day. Or even, if you enjoy it, some little yogurts.
> Just eating veggies alone, I agree, may not do it, but if you also
> have some nuts or mozzerella, it will really help. I also like those
> little tins of chicken. And actually, a veggie that does help me
past
> hunger is sliced up cucumber with salt and pepper that you can put
in
> a baggie too and munch on. Grapes are very good as well. Hope some
of
> these ideas help.

Yes, I agree.  Take some snacks to work with you in a cooler.  You can
keep it in your vehicle and eat them while you're driving or any other
time you have a minute.
I would take it easy on the nuts though, they are *extremely* high in
calories.  1/2 cup of nuts can have more calories than a whole meal
and you don't get all that much satisfaction from them.
I would recommend making a large sandwich with whole wheat bread and
some lean meat like chicken or turkey breast and some low fat cheese
as well as veggies.  Cut the sandwich in half and eat it 2 or 3 hours
apart.  A meal that combines complex carbohydrates as well as lean
protein will keep you full longest and you won't crash from it a short
time after eating.  I would avoid sugary snacks like chocolate during
the work day.  Save that for dessert after dinner or special treats on
the weekend.
--
Britta
Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that's
covered in fur!
Check out pictures of Vino at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album
Karen - 25 Feb 2005 11:08 GMT
>>>>> The doctor wasn't there but a Nurse practitioner was there. She
> is
[quoted text clipped - 63 lines]
> Check out pictures of Vino at:
> http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

That's interesting. For me, an ounce of nuts can keep me through a whole
morning. But yes, you do have to not overdo. That's why I premeasure them.
badwilson - 25 Feb 2005 11:56 GMT
>>>>>> The doctor wasn't there but a Nurse practitioner was there. She
>> is
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>> Yes, I agree.  Take some snacks to work with you in a cooler.  You
>> can keep it in your vehicle and eat them while you're driving or
any
>> other time you have a minute.
>> I would take it easy on the nuts though, they are *extremely* high in
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> protein will keep you full longest and you won't crash from it a
>> short time after eating.  I would avoid sugary snacks like
chocolate
>> during the work day.  Save that for dessert after dinner or special
>> treats on the weekend.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> whole morning. But yes, you do have to not overdo. That's why I
> premeasure them.

One ounce of almonds (23 almonds) has 164 calories.  That's the same
as one slice whole wheat bread, 2 servings (50 grams) of fat free
turkey breast (Louis Rich), one ounce of low fat cheddar and various
slices of vegetables (lettuce, tomato, etc.).  If you use mustard
instead of mayo and some pepper, you have yourself a great
half-sandwich, which would keep me personally satisfied a lot longer
than 23 almonds.  But everybody's different.
--
Britta
Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that's
covered in fur!
Check out pictures of Vino at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album
CATherine - 26 Feb 2005 03:16 GMT
>>>> in article iobt119nucv4ia5snjudol03eehvj3f0lf@4ax.com, CATherine
>at
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>half-sandwich, which would keep me personally satisfied a lot longer
>than 23 almonds.  But everybody's different.

That sandwich sounds pretty good. I use fat-free Miracle Whip or
sometimes mustard. I am also thinking of a cut-up apple or banana. But
i also have a couple of large navel oranges right now. They are
delicious and not too messy.

--
CATherine
badwilson - 26 Feb 2005 03:27 GMT
>>>>> in article iobt119nucv4ia5snjudol03eehvj3f0lf@4ax.com, CATherine
>>>>> at pepsicola5cents@drop.me.bigsandytelco.com wrote on 2/24/05
>>>>> 11:24 PM:
>>>>>
>> One ounce of almonds (23 almonds) has 164 calories.  That's the
same
>> as one slice whole wheat bread, 2 servings (50 grams) of fat free
>> turkey breast (Louis Rich), one ounce of low fat cheddar and
various
>> slices of vegetables (lettuce, tomato, etc.).  If you use mustard
>> instead of mayo and some pepper, you have yourself a great
>> half-sandwich, which would keep me personally satisfied a lot
longer
>> than 23 almonds.  But everybody's different.
>
> That sandwich sounds pretty good. I use fat-free Miracle Whip or
> sometimes mustard. I am also thinking of a cut-up apple or banana. But
> i also have a couple of large navel oranges right now. They are
> delicious and not too messy.

There ya go!  All it takes is some pre-planning the night before and
you're all set for the work day.  You could even cut up or peel the
oranges and put them in a tub, that way you can eat them faster and
with less mess.
If you have a decent breakfast before going to work and pack 2 or 3
healthy snacks, then have a sensible dinner when you get home, you'll
find yourself feeling better than you've felt in a long time and won't
want to go back to the old ways.
Hang in there :-)
--
Britta
Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that's
covered in fur!
Check out pictures of Vino at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album
CATherine - 26 Feb 2005 03:16 GMT
>Yes, I agree.  Take some snacks to work with you in a cooler.  You can
>keep it in your vehicle and eat them while you're driving or any other
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>the work day.  Save that for dessert after dinner or special treats on
>the weekend.

I like the idea of a sandwich cut in half. Just enough to take the
"hungries" away without making me logy. And maybe some green grapes.

--
CATherine
CATherine - 26 Feb 2005 03:22 GMT
>Catherine, think about getting one of those little portable coolers and put
>some mozzerlla sticks and veggie sacks in it. Also baggie up some little
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>pepper that you can put in a baggie too and munch on. Grapes are very good
>as well. Hope some of these ideas help.

I do have a small cooler I carry in the summer for my water. There is
room for a sandwich. Or a piece of cold chicken.

--
CATherine
wafflycat - 25 Feb 2005 10:52 GMT
> It is kind of hard to have several meals a day in my job, let alone
> noon. I find I cannot do my job with a full meal under my belt. So the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> --
> CATherine

Monday this week I was out on the road all day as I had to drive up to Leeds
& back. It's not easy to find healthy stuff to eat at roadside cafes - it's
all high-fat, high-sugar snack & junk food, so you have my condolences on
the difficulty of trying to eat sensibly during the working day.

I took my food with me on Monday. I had a large flask of homemade veggie
soup made from non-starchy veggies, a wholemeal roll, some *lean* chicken
(no skin) and a couple of pieces of fruit. The food I kept in a cool bag
with the little freeze blocks in it to keep the food cool. You have to think
ahead & prepare stuff yourself, but it's worth it in the end! Honest! :-)
Give it a try.

Please, please, please try to keep off the peanut butter, cheese & candy -
*you and your health are worth more than that junk*

best of luck, helen s
jmcquown - 25 Feb 2005 17:49 GMT
>>> The doctor wasn't there but a Nurse practitioner was there. She is
>>> great. Very knowledgeable and helpful and answers my questions and
>>> gave me the most thorough heart exam I ever had.
>>>
>>> She told me i only had to cut my salt, fat and cholesterol in half
>>> after she got my full life history!
(snippage)
>> Eek!  I'd rather you eat more small meals, too =P  Your blood sugar
>> won't spike as much and your stomach will also shrink, allowing you
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> It is kind of hard to have several meals a day in my job, let alone
> noon.

What do you do for a living?  Surely they have to give you a lunch break?!
And, at least here in TN, the Dept. of Labor mandates two 15 minute breaks
per day as well.  Do you have access to a microwave?  A refrigerator?  (I
realize not everyone has these in the workplace.)  As others have suggested,
a small cooler for snack/lunch items that need to be kept cool.  Or a
thermos filled with soup so you can sip on a cup when you get hunger pangs.

>I find I cannot do my job with a full meal under my belt.

Ah, but the point of more small meals is not a "full meal" every time you
eat.

So the
> most I do is peanut butter/cheese crackers or a candy bar. I tried
> carrots and celery but they were not satisfying and left my stomach
> rumbling.

Carrots and celery are mostly water anyway.  Sure, they have some benefits
such as betacarotene from carrots.  I'm honestly not sure what celery does
other than make soup taste better LOL  PB crackers and cheese crackers are
convenient but not particularly healthy.

Jill
CatNipped - 25 Feb 2005 17:59 GMT
> What do you do for a living?  Surely they have to give you a lunch break?!
> And, at least here in TN, the Dept. of Labor mandates two 15 minute breaks
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> thermos filled with soup so you can sip on a cup when you get hunger
> pangs.

Since my surgery I'm forced to eat 6 small "meals" a day since my stomach is
about the size of a golf ball.  However, since then, I've felt *MUCH* better
and don't have those "highs" and "lows" throughout the day and I don't ever
get so hungry that I feel faint.

It doesn't even have to be "meals" per se.  I keep pretzels or Cheeze-its
(or some baked snack food) and trail mix bars in my desk along with fruit
like apples and oranges.  "Grazing" seems to be the way humans were designed
to eat.

Regarding breaks - like Jill pointed out, by law your employer is required
to give you a certain amount of break time for every certain number of hours
you work (numbers vary from state to state, but *all* states have these
laws).  And, nutrition aside, ergonomically speaking you should get up and
move around or you'll end up crippling yourself from ergonomic injuries.

Hugs,

CatNipped
jmcquown - 25 Feb 2005 19:00 GMT
NOTE:  This RANT is in no way directed towards Lori!

> Since my surgery I'm forced to eat 6 small "meals" a day since my
> stomach is about the size of a golf ball.  However, since then, I've
> felt *MUCH* better and don't have those "highs" and "lows" throughout
> the day and I don't ever get so hungry that I feel faint.

In 2003 it seemed to become a "trend" at my office for people to have
gastric bypass surgery.  Let me make it clear: I do not have a problem with
this, per se.  But some of the people who had the surgery done jumped
through hoops to get approval for it.  When the local doctor who performs
the procedure wouldn't approve them, they drove 3-1/2 hours to Little Rock
to a guy they'd been told would approve them.  I know of only one woman who
ate sensibly and in small portions but had always been overweight, even as a
child.  She, of course, was the only one I'd call a success story.  She
looked and felt fantastic the last time I saw her.

N. admitted to me and others she ate nothing but junk food and fast food.
J. ate enough food for 2-3 people just at lunchtime.  B. didn't qualify as
obese so she *gained* 30 pounds in order to get herself into "shape" for
having it done!  Why?  Because she wanted to be a size 4, not a size 10.  K.
was always talking about making fried pork chops or fried chicken for dinner
with mashed potatoes and all of it smothered in gravy.  She'd shown us all
photos from just a few years before when she looked very good.  Hello - so
stop frying everything and putting gravy on everything!  "But my husband
likes it."  I'm sure he does, but since he's not doing the cooking I'll bet
he'd eat what you put on the table.  (BTW, her kids were overweight, too.)

The day before J. had his surgery, he ordered TWO fried fish dinners for
lunch from a seafood fast-food chain complete with fries and hushpuppies and
proceeded to eat both of them in an hour.  His comment was, "I'm not gonna
be able to eat like this again for a while."  After J. had his surgery (and
Lori, you know about this for sure!) he was supposed to have liquids for a
week, then soft foods - no fat! and work gradually into small, healthy solid
meals.  2 weeks after his surgery he chowed down on a hamburger and on pizza
and wound up in the hospital with a blockage because his body couldn't
handle what he'd eaten!  And even well after that he'd be the first in line
when we had food at a company function and go back for seconds. (SIGH)  I
never really noticed any appreciable weight loss - maybe 80 lbs but he was
already over 350 when he had the surgery.

B., the one who purposely gained weight, did get down to a size 4.  But she
was also still the first one to seek out or bring in doughnuts and cookies;
she kept bowls of chocolate candy on her desk.  She also looked rather silly
being a 55 year old woman who came to work wearing leather pants and skimpy
tops.  Honey, you aren't 20 just because you're now a size 4 - get over it!

S. is the only one I considered successful.  She was ready and willing to
modify her eating habits, which weren't bad to begin with.  She already
loved baked fish and chicken breasts; lots of steamed vegetables and salads
with simple olive oil and vinegar dressing before she ever considered this
surgery.  It was due to her blood pressure and having had no success with
"diets" for years and problems with her knees due to her weight.  She was
about 30 and had been battling this since a child.

END of RANT

> It doesn't even have to be "meals" per se.  I keep pretzels or
> Cheeze-its (or some baked snack food) and trail mix bars in my desk
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> speaking you should get up and move around or you'll end up crippling
> yourself from ergonomic injuries.

Or, if you stand all day (as with some jobs) - take a break and rest your
feet.

> Hugs,
>
> CatNipped
CatNipped - 25 Feb 2005 19:54 GMT
> I know of only one woman who
> ate sensibly and in small portions but had always been overweight, even as
> a
> child.  She, of course, was the only one I'd call a success story.  She
> looked and felt fantastic the last time I saw her.

The surgery is helpful, but it isn't "magic" - you do have to work with it.

I'd been overweight all my life (the only one in my family, so it wasn't
eating habits).  The way one doctor explained it seemed to make sense.  At
the time I was born "fat" babies were "in".  Fat babies were equated with
healthy babies and were "cute".  My mom used to practically force feed me
when I was an infant.  This doctor said that from age 0 to 2 was when the
*number* of fat cells are created and after that the fat cells only enlarge
or shrink.  So if you force an infant to be overweight you are burdening
him/her with way too many fat cells for life.  That person is then required
to eat on an almost starvation diet in order to keep the fat cells small
enough to be a normal weight.  I think that's why I had to go on an 800
calorie a day or less diet in order to lose weight.  Then as soon as I'd
start eating normally again I would gain it all back and then some!

<snip>

> he'd eat what you put on the table.  (BTW, her kids were overweight, too.)

Poor kids (see above!!).

> The day before J. had his surgery, he ordered TWO fried fish dinners for
> lunch from a seafood fast-food chain complete with fries and hushpuppies
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> solid
> meals.

Actually, liquids only for 3 weeks and then another 3 - 4 weeks of "soft"
food.

> 2 weeks after his surgery he chowed down on a hamburger and on pizza
> and wound up in the hospital with a blockage because his body couldn't
> handle what he'd eaten!

<stands with mouth open in total shock>  I can't believe he did that - that
had to *HURT*.  I remember in the hospital they gave me some liquid pain
medicine right after I had a half a cup of water and the medicine just came
right back up because my stomach was too full to hold it (kind of like a
baby's liquid burp or spit-up)!!!

> And even well after that he'd be the first in line
> when we had food at a company function and go back for seconds. (SIGH)  I
> never really noticed any appreciable weight loss - maybe 80 lbs but he was
> already over 350 when he had the surgery.

If you haven't seen them yet, here are the pictures (and what's, for me,
more important) the medical statistics of me before and after surgery:
http://www.possibleplaces.com/changes/.

> B., the one who purposely gained weight, did get down to a size 4.  But
> she
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> tops.  Honey, you aren't 20 just because you're now a size 4 - get over
> it!

<again stands with mouth open in total shock>  After my surgery I made the
mistake of eating about a teaspoon of jellied cranberry sauce (forgetting
that it contained sugar), and I was begging gawd to take me out of my misery
for the next 4 hours!!!!!  I avoid sugar like the plague!!!!!!!!!!!

> S. is the only one I considered successful.  She was ready and willing to
> modify her eating habits, which weren't bad to begin with.  She already
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> "diets" for years and problems with her knees due to her weight.  She was
> about 30 and had been battling this since a child.

My eating habits are very much changed as far as what I eat (I do eat less
more often because of the size of my stomach).  I think what made it work
for me was the intestinal bypass.  Less of what I eat is absorbed into my
body so I get fewer calories.  In other words, I might eat 1,000 calories a
day, but probably only about 800 or less are absorbed into my body.

> END of RANT

I agree with everything you said.

One thing to note is that this is *NOT* a surgery people should have done
just to get into a size 4.  For one thing, you are only supposed to lose
about 70% to 80% of what you are overweight by (if you are 100 pounds over
your "ideal" weight you can expect to lose about 70 or 80 pounds).  To lose
that last 20% to 30% you have to do what everyone else does - exercise and
what *what* you eat.  And you have to *work* at losing.

Even though my stomach is the size of a golf ball, if I ate high calorie /
high fat foods often enough, I would not have lost weight (and my medical
statistics would not have changed so drastically).  And to go along with the
change in diet I also do 20 minutes of yoga and 25 minutes of strength
exercises (crunches, etc.) *every* day and then 45 minutes (about 7 or 8
miles) about 4 times a week on top of that.

Hugs,

CatNipped
CatNipped - 25 Feb 2005 20:00 GMT
> My eating habits are very much changed as far as what I eat (I do eat less
----------------------  
^  ------------------------------------------------------------

Oops, should have been "aren't" - I eat about the same things I did before,
just *NO* sugar!

Hugs,

CatNipped
jmcquown - 25 Feb 2005 20:16 GMT
>> My eating habits are very much changed as far as what I eat (I do
>> eat less
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> CatNipped

You can well imagine how, given the talk about the cost of group insurance,
watching people refuse to cooperate with the dietary guidelines so as to
wind back up in the hospital - or doing some simple exercise such as
walking, would make a lot of people at the office upset.  It was (they sure
let us know) a $40,000 surgical procedure covered by our group insurance
plan. (SIGH)

Jill
CatNipped - 25 Feb 2005 20:38 GMT
> You can well imagine how, given the talk about the cost of group
> insurance,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Jill

Definitely!  Ideally the cost of this surgery is *WAY* less than what it
would cost for treating heart disease, stroke, cancer, joint replacement,
etc. - the things that are caused by obesity.  But if it's just done for
vanity's sake or done to no avail then that would make me mad too.

Insurance premiums are way out of control.  However, even more than needless
surgery, frivolous lawsuits make me angry.  The cost of all that malpractice
insurance is passed on to the patients and thus to the insurance companies.
Everyone has to cover the cost of some idiot trying make a buck by suing the
doctor because their 90-year-old granny died under his care!

Hugs,

CatNipped
Howard Berkowitz - 25 Feb 2005 21:47 GMT
> > You can well imagine how, given the talk about the cost of group
> > insurance,
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> the
> doctor because their 90-year-old granny died under his care!

Malpractice insurance, and the associated extra costs of "defensive
medicine", are indeed part of the US healthcare economic situation.  
They are, by no means, the only parts.

We know several ways to decrease the incidence of malpractice, but
there's resistance -- although this is changing with a newer generation
of physicians. Every study of malpractice suits shows that the #1
preventive is having physicians TALK to their patients, give the
impression of at least giving time if not actually caring, and, if
there's a problem, admit it quickly (which the lawyers say is the last
thing to do).

There are also great opportunities for risk reduction (aside from
efficiencies) by greater automation in clinical practice. A very large
part of medical errors are due to incorrect (or unreadable) prescribing,
of drugs or treatment. The Institute of Medicine of the National Academy
of Sciences recommended that the prescription pad be used only in
extremely unusual cases -- prescriptions should be written with a
computer-assisted prescribing system. The more access that system has to
the patient's medical record, the more problems it can avoid, the better
the mixtures of drugs it can recommend, and it can come up with cheaper
regimens that have better compliance.

One of the biggest problems, however, is what would be called a shell
game in any other industry: "cost-shifting".  This is caused by a
combination of the US historical artifact, the employer-based system,
and unfunded mandates.  When I speak of reforms, I am NOT speaking of
"socialized medicine", but actually letting the free market work. The
problem is that free markets depend on interaction between consumer and
provider. The US system alters that to an interaction between employer,
for which healthcare is overhead, and benefits managers (sometimes but
not always insurers) who manage reimbursement. While there were distinct
problems with the entire Clinton health plan, one part, which both Bush
and Kerry recommended to differing extents, is to get the employer out
of the loop and have consumer cooperatives contract with
providers/benefit managers. Both Presidential candidates suggested that
certain small businesses, etc., be allowed to buy into the single very
large system in the US that uses this model very successfully: the
Federal Employees' Health Plans.

Right now, the reimbursement received, for the same procedure, by a
provider differs with the market leverage of the third-party payor. Big
insurers, Medicare, etc., can get away with paying artificially low
rates, which sometimes don't cover costs.  The providers, still having
costs to cover, increase the bills to less well insured and self-insured
patients.

Adding to the problem is the major unfunded mandate called EMTALA, which
requires patients to be seen and stabilized in emergency rooms without
regard to ability to pay.  Socially, I believe this is a good thing,
but, as a Federal mandate, I believe the uncovered costs should be
reimbursed from Federal taxes -- not cost-shifted.  I can look at one of
the top hospitals in Washington DC, which receives critical shooting
patients from the drug wars. Such people are rarely insured. It's very
easy to run up costs of hundreds of thousands to stabilize a multiple
gunshot patient.  Sometimes, the hospitals can get these patients on
Medicaid, but, all too often, the costs get shifted onto the insured and
self-pay patients.

As an example of how radical the discounts can be, when I received my
pacemaker, the "list price" for the pacemaker itself and the
implantation was $24,000.  Combining reimbursement and my copay, it cost
me $1800. My benefits were managed by the #2 manager in the industry,
with great market power.
Monique Y. Mudama - 28 Feb 2005 17:32 GMT
> Malpractice insurance, and the associated extra costs of "defensive
> medicine", are indeed part of the US healthcare economic situation.  They
> are, by no means, the only parts.

[snip good stuff]

Thanks, Howard.  Those were some interesting points.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Howard Berkowitz - 25 Feb 2005 21:32 GMT
> > I know of only one woman who
> > ate sensibly and in small portions but had always been overweight, even
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> The surgery is helpful, but it isn't "magic" - you do have to work with
> it.

My endocrinologist has been suggesting it for me, and, even if I did
have insurance that covered it, I am reluctant. Let me throw my
reasoning into the discussion.

By the actuarial tables, I should be 168 or so.  When, however, I'm in
athletic conditioning, with low body fat and substantial muscle, I seem
to stabilize around 190.  At present, I'm about 270.

I have a group of conditions associated with overweight, including one
called "metabolic syndrome X": diabetes, high lipids, and fat
concentration in the belly (my legs and buttocks are rock solid). I also
have hypertension and obstructive sleep apnea.

Many of these conditions would almost certainly be helped by weight
loss, although it's not a guarantee. My hypertension and lipids are
extremely well controlled by medication, although the diabetes needs
further drug adjustment. At least 30-40 pounds of the excess weight is
directly due to diabetes medication. Unfortunately, the one diabetes
drug that does not cause weight gain, and also perfectly regularized the
diabetes in combination with another drug, is toxic to my kidneys. We
may try it again in extremely low dose.

If emotional and schedule factors get me back into regular exercise, I
can say, from experience, I replace fat with loss and muscle mass. If I
had gastric bypass, my concern would be that I could not easily get the
protein I need for muscle growth, and also the carbohydrates I need to
keep my sugar reasonable during intense exercise.  Yes, there are some
potentially reversible bariatric surgeries, but I think there's a better
long-term situation. I work at home and have a decent home gym; it's a
matter of emotional health and discipline to use it.

> I'd been overweight all my life (the only one in my family, so it wasn't
> eating habits).  The way one doctor explained it seemed to make sense.  
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> calorie a day or less diet in order to lose weight.  Then as soon as I'd
> start eating normally again I would gain it all back and then some!

As a child and teenager, I ran to underweight. When I was a wrestler in
high school, my coach was always trying to push me into the 162 pound
class, but I tended to stay around 150 or so. My suspicion is the weight
gain is associated with not just type II diabetes, but with an
assortment of partially understood metabolic disorders associated with
it -- and, of course, the medication. Most medications for diabetes try
to keep extra sugar out of the blood -- this is good, because excess
blood sugar, and sugar metabolites such as sorbitol, cause the damage.
The bad news is that they lower blood sugar by improving the efficiency
of transport into the cells, whether or not the cells are ready to burn
it.
Monique Y. Mudama - 28 Feb 2005 17:26 GMT
> If emotional and schedule factors get me back into regular exercise, I can
> say, from experience, I replace fat with loss and muscle mass. If I had
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> situation. I work at home and have a decent home gym; it's a matter of
> emotional health and discipline to use it.

Not to be insensitive, but I don't see why bypass is even an option for you.
It sounds like you know exactly what you need to do to get your body into
shape, but it's just hard to work up the motivation (believe me, I
sympathize!) ... Is it that your medications change the equation and make it
harder to take the right steps?

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Mary - 28 Feb 2005 17:29 GMT
> > If emotional and schedule factors get me back into regular exercise, I can
> > say, from experience, I replace fat with loss and muscle mass. If I had
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> shape, but it's just hard to work up the motivation (believe me, I
> sympathize!)

And men of any age have more muscle mass than women so they burn
the fat faster. It's a function of testosterone. One of the few reasons I
have
sometimes wished I was a man!
Howard Berkowitz - 28 Feb 2005 23:33 GMT
> > > If emotional and schedule factors get me back into regular exercise,
> > > I
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> have
> sometimes wished I was a man!

If it's any consolation, testosterone (well, to be precise,
dehydrotestosterone) causes male pattern baldness. I may discuss some
androgen supplements with my endocrinologist, to see if it would be
useful in weight loss. There's a gel preparation that seems to be lower
in side effects than the other forms of anabolic steroids, which I
flatly would not take.

One of my key blood pressure drugs is oral minoxidil, which, taken
orally -- and it is a potent drug with side effects to watch closely --
is far more effective in growing hair than Rogaine. I now have grown
back to an area that I can sometimes get away with explaining as "That's
not a bald spot. That's a solar energy panel for a luuuuve machine."
Howard Berkowitz - 28 Feb 2005 23:30 GMT
> > If emotional and schedule factors get me back into regular exercise, I
> > can
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> it
> harder to take the right steps?

Oh, don't worry about insensitivity -- I like my endocrinologist very
much, but when he suggested this, I told him I didn't see it as a viable
option.  Yes, I am all too aware of exercise physiology -- especially
when I used to have a personal trainer who was a physiologist. It's one
thing to have a trainer that goes into jockspeak, but for me, it really
stings when I get it biochemically! :-)

The problem is a combination of things: weight gain effects from
medication, motivation/depression, and portion control. The latter, of
course, becomes less of an issue if I burn more calories.

Ironically, or maybe not so much so, the busier I am, the more likely I
am to work out. I've started seeing...hmmm....how to describe him -- a
very medically oriented psychiatrist. This is a new university clinic
where they deal with emotional and physical issues concurrently.

In the short term, we are trying to just get some activating "reflexes".  
The idea of exercising at all is more important, right now, than the
quality of the workout. So, whenever I take a pill, I try to do at least
a set or two of a movement I like -- bench presses, lat pulldowns, bicep
curls. I keep these low weight so I don't overtrain, and, when I do
manage to motivate a serious workout, I do appropriate body part splits.

One thing I've learned about my exercise patterns is that if I don't do
weight training, there's no chance I will do more classic aerobic
exercise. That doesn't, of course, preclude doing the weights at a
circuit training rather than optimal strength or muscle hypertrophy pace.

After getting off a very successful conference call with my current
client, a past client just emailed me asking for some time on another
project.  Getting the finances back also help get the diet working -- I
have to be extremely careful with any carbs unless I'm closely
monitoring my blood sugar and exercise.  Meats and fresh vegetables
drive up the budget.

Tonight, however, amidst possible feline envy, I plan to steam some cod
over cucumbers, sauced with black beans, ginger and green onions.
Monique Y. Mudama - 28 Feb 2005 17:21 GMT
> The surgery is helpful, but it isn't "magic" - you do have to work with it.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> calorie a day or less diet in order to lose weight.  Then as soon as I'd
> start eating normally again I would gain it all back and then some!

That's an interesting theory.  I do know that DH was about the fattest baby
you ever saw, but he's not overweight now and has a metabolism I'd kill for.
But as always, a counterexample can prove the rule.

> Even though my stomach is the size of a golf ball, if I ate high calorie /
> high fat foods often enough, I would not have lost weight (and my medical
> statistics would not have changed so drastically).  

I'd imagine your stomach would eventually stretch if you kept eating too much
food.  At least, the amount of food I can eat depends on how large my typical
meal is.

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monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Mary - 28 Feb 2005 17:28 GMT
> > The surgery is helpful, but it isn't "magic" - you do have to work with it.
> >
> > I'd been overweight all my life (the only one in my family, so it wasn't
> > eating habits).

> That's an interesting theory.  I do know that DH was about the fattest baby
> you ever saw, but he's not overweight now and has a metabolism I'd kill for.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> food.  At least, the amount of food I can eat depends on how large my typical
> meal is.

Did you see Catnipped's video? If she has been overweight all her life,
she certainly is not now. Lori, what is your secret?
Monique Y. Mudama - 28 Feb 2005 17:45 GMT
>> I'd imagine your stomach would eventually stretch if you kept eating
>> too much food.  At least, the amount of food I can eat depends on how
>> large my typical meal is.
>
> Did you see Catnipped's video? If she has been overweight all her
> life, she certainly is not now. Lori, what is your secret?

Yes, I did.  To put what I meant to say another way:

CatNipped may have gotten surgery, but she also exerted a lot of self control
to reap the benefits of the surgery.  If she hadn't had the self control to
stick to the portions appropriate for her new stomach size, I suspect her
stomach would have grown larger again and she wouldn't have had the great
results she did have.

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monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

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Mary - 28 Feb 2005 17:59 GMT
> >> I'd imagine your stomach would eventually stretch if you kept eating
> >> too much food.  At least, the amount of food I can eat depends on how
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> stomach would have grown larger again and she wouldn't have had the great
> results she did have.

I wasn't arguing, just complimenting her. My husband's sister had the
surgery
and gained most of the weight back over a seven-year period.
CATherine - 26 Feb 2005 03:11 GMT
>>>> The doctor wasn't there but a Nurse practitioner was there. She is
>>>> great. Very knowledgeable and helpful and answers my questions and
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>a small cooler for snack/lunch items that need to be kept cool.  Or a
>thermos filled with soup so you can sip on a cup when you get hunger pangs.

I am a home health aide. I go from home to home, giving people baths
and such. I will use their bathrooms when i need to; but not their
microwaves, etc. I eat in my car. Many times my schedule is so tight,
I eat a cracker while I am driving. Sometimes, when my schedule is
light, I will drop by a grocery and pick up a bit of something in the
bakery or deli. Sometimes when I have a half day, I will spend the
afternoon at a buffet and then I don't want supper. I also don't want
to cook for my son on those days! >;-)

--
CATherine
Monique Y. Mudama - 28 Feb 2005 03:47 GMT
> I'm honestly not sure what celery does
> other than make soup taste better LOL
>
> Jill

Fiber!  I don't think they add flavor to anything, but they do add texture to
otherwise mushy foods.

Signature

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pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Christina Websell - 28 Feb 2005 00:05 GMT
>>> The doctor wasn't there but a Nurse practitioner was there. She is
>>> great.
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> carrots and celery but they were not satisfying and left my stomach
> rumbling.

My government dept hires persons to do things that you do.  I know the
difficulties,
You need to have a breakfast.  It need not be too much, perhaps a half glass
of fruit juice and a round of toast and do an extra round of toast with a
bit of cheese or something on to take with you to eat at 10.30.
Then you need lunch.  Make a sandwich while you are doing your toast in the
morning and waiting for it to pop out of the toaster.  Maybe a piece of ham,
beef or pork - if you aren't a veggie - inside two pieces of wholemeal bread
with salad in it. Eat this at lunch time around 1 p.m.
Peanut butter is out.  It has loads of calories and is full of fat.  I love
cheese myself, but now I only eat it about twice a week because it's full of
fat too

Then eat a nice dinner in the evening without going mad for fat.  A large
baked potato, with a little sliced cooked meat, lots of salad including
cooked beetroot, with a little low fat mayonnaise and a couple of rounds of
wholemeal bread will fill you quite well.

On the other hand..if you feel inclined, at the weekend, eat naughty fried
things.  Stuff yourself and enjoy it. ;-)))
Life is too short to deny ourselves everything all of the time.

Tweed
CATherine - 28 Feb 2005 01:04 GMT
>You need to have a breakfast.  It need not be too much, perhaps a half glass
>of fruit juice and a round of toast and do an extra round of toast with a
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
>Tweed

This is a lot of food. Six slices of bread in one day plus meat and
potato and salad. Maybe my stomach isn't as large as I thought it was.
Bread is very filling. And so is potato.

This morning at 10:30am I had breakfast at a friend's house. Four
small (4 inches) homemade tortillas, a generous helping (about 1 and
1/2 cups) of diced potatoes and scrambled eggs (mixed)(I passed on the
green chili) and a little over-cooked bacon. No lunch. Here it is 6pm
and I am still too full to think of food. Maybe by bedtime I might
feel like some juicy peaches.

Yesterday I had dried cranberries and half a juicy pear and for supper
I had lean pork loin with a bit of herb salt, lettuce and tomato salad
with fat-free dressing. Toast with a skim of peanut butter and jelly.
I was full. Potato would have been too much. The night before I had
mashed potatoes with creamed corn and lean meat. I was stuffed without
eating any bread. I don't eat much bread.

I think I will carry dried cranberries and maybe one little sandwich.
Or a couple oatmeal cookies.

--
CATherine

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