Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / February 2005
HRFL Tiger UPDATE.
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HRFLTiger - 22 Feb 2005 15:41 GMT Well, himself is back from the TED, and very miffed about his shaved armpits he is too!
The vet doing the Ultrasound and X-rays was very nice - she was also very direct, which I prefer. Apparently, Tigers heart murmer "HAS" increased from 3/6 to 4/6 (which is why the vet got upset last night) and there has been a slight thickening in the left ventrial wall compared to the utrasound readings 18 months ago, but nothing so significant that it merits medication at the moment as the whole thing seems relatively stabalised.
Apparently, the literature suggests that for a stable HCM condition like Tiger has, rather than CHM, medication has not been shown to make a significant difference. The vet is competent, so I'll follow her advice.
Turns out that the panting is probably asthma!! Apparently after the ultrasound, they put him onto the equivalent of a kitty treadmill to see what he was like after exercise, and he started panting. Whilst this *is* indicative of heart problems, they listened to his chest and apparently he has "typical asthmatic sounds", whatever the hell they are. Needless to say, after the last 24 hours, I don't really care!
It's treatable, it's dealable, and my little boy is actually OK. :o))
Thank you all for the purrs and prayers - you really have no idea the difference it made to me having the support.
Helen M
CatNipped - 22 Feb 2005 15:53 GMT Purrs continuing for Tiger!
Hugs,
CatNipped
> Well, himself is back from the TED, and very miffed about his shaved > armpits he is too! [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Helen M pistor - 22 Feb 2005 16:04 GMT MOST EXCELLENT NEWS!!! I'm so happy for HRFL Tiger and for you. Can we get jpegs of the saven armpits? ;-)
Victor, posting from work
wafflycat - 22 Feb 2005 16:08 GMT > It's treatable, it's dealable, and my little boy is actually OK. :o)) > > Thank you all for the purrs and prayers - you really have no idea the > difference it made to me having the support. > > Helen M Excellent news!
Cheers, helen s p.s. - give himself a good earscritch from me!
Monique Y. Mudama - 22 Feb 2005 16:13 GMT > Turns out that the panting is probably asthma!! Apparently after the > ultrasound, they put him onto the equivalent of a kitty treadmill to see > what he was like after exercise, and he started panting. Whilst this *is* > indicative of heart problems, they listened to his chest and apparently he > has "typical asthmatic sounds", whatever the hell they are. Needless to say, > after the last 24 hours, I don't really care! I'm trying to imagine a device that would get a cat to run consistently for long enough to get an accurate read. I can't do it.
> It's treatable, it's dealable, and my little boy is actually OK. :o)) Very good news!
 Signature monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
HRFLTiger - 22 Feb 2005 16:18 GMT "I'm trying to imagine a device that would get a cat to run consistently for long enough to get an accurate read. I can't do it."
As I understand it, it involved a vet tech, a laser pointer and plenty of space in the prep area! ;o)
Helen M
Howard Berkowitz - 22 Feb 2005 17:10 GMT > > Turns out that the panting is probably asthma!! Apparently after the > > ultrasound, they put him onto the equivalent of a kitty treadmill to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > for > long enough to get an accurate read. I can't do it. It was strange enough to see a blood pressure taken with a cuff around Clifford's tail. Even then, the cardiologist only measured the systolic pressure. I'm trying to remember if he needed a Doppler sensor rather than a stethoscope even for that.
Gabey8 - 22 Feb 2005 16:15 GMT I'm glad to hear that the results were reassuring. :o) Let HRFL Tiger know that he's got company on this board with other asthmatic kitties.
BTW, the one asthmatic cat that I knew was diagnosed during a summer about 20 years ago when the pollen count was HORRENDOUSLY high. I know that spring is on the way (and it can't get here soon enough to suit me!), so maybe you can try and find out what the air quality is in your area. Maybe there's pollen or mold or ??? in the air that's triggering the asthma symptoms to crop up. Forewarned is forearmed.
Captain and Stanley send HRFL some nice loud PURRRRS, and I send him some skritchies.
Donna, Captain, and Stanley
Smokie Darling (Annie) - 22 Feb 2005 16:29 GMT > Well, himself is back from the TED, and very miffed about his shaved > armpits he is too! [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Helen M I'm very happy that Tiger is going to be alright. Being the big wuss that I am, when "owners" are not doing well, I imagine all sorts of awful things (and that's for *other people's* owners, imagine what I'm like with my own!).
If I may ask, what does HRFL mean? Answer only if you want to.
Smokie Darling (Annie)
HRFLTiger - 22 Feb 2005 16:49 GMT If I may ask, what does HRFL mean?
Of course you can ask Annie. :o)
It started out as a joke on RPCA waaay back in about 1999. I forget who coined it.
HRFL stands for "His Royal Feline Lordship".
Tiger is utterly convinced that if he stands still long enough the entire world will revolve around him. It frequently does!
Helen M
Smokie Darling (Annie) - 22 Feb 2005 16:53 GMT > If I may ask, what does HRFL mean? > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Helen M Ahhh, I had almost figured it out. Just couldn't come up with the "L". Aren't all "mwowing" furbabies reincarnated aristocracy? Mine certainly think they are!
Smokie Darling (Annie)
Gabey8 - 22 Feb 2005 17:23 GMT [[Ahhh, I had almost figured it out. Just couldn't come up with the "L". Aren't all "mwowing" furbabies reincarnated aristocracy? Mine certainly think they are!]]
Either that, or aristocracy are reincarnated from cats... and the cats KNOW it! :o)
Donna and the royal fuzzballs, Captain and Stanley
Phil - 22 Feb 2005 16:34 GMT > Well, himself is back from the TED, and very miffed about his shaved > armpits he is too! I can imagine.
> The vet doing the Ultrasound and X-rays was very nice - she was also > very direct, which I prefer. Apparently, Tigers heart murmer "HAS" [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > It's treatable, it's dealable, and my little boy is actually OK. :o)) This is good news, glad to hear that.
> Thank you all for the purrs and prayers - you really have no idea the > difference it made to me having the support. > > Helen M Phil
Jeanette - 22 Feb 2005 16:38 GMT > It's treatable, it's dealable, and my little boy is actually OK. :o)) > > Thank you all for the purrs and prayers - you really have no idea the > difference it made to me having the support. > > Helen M Yeah! Three cheers for HRFH :D
Love
Jeanette
zuzu22@webtv.net - 22 Feb 2005 16:50 GMT I can't imagine not treating your cat with meds at this point. His condition is obviously *not* stable as is evidenced by the increased murmur and increased thickening not to mention the fact that you brought him in in the first place because he was obviously feeling bad. Having had a cat with a heart condition myself, I can't imagine, considering the above, that a vet would recommend not treating. Please get a second opinion, preferably from a cardiologist. Medication can help to stabilize a patient. What does this vet want to do? Wait until more damage is done? Also, the crackling sound that often goes with feline asthma is also common with heart condtions and is a sign of edema. Your cat's panting is more likely to mean that dema is happening and he needs treatment for the heart condition, not a wait and see approach. My cat Omar also presented with this as well. Assuming asthma without doing an xray to look for the obvious signs to me, and especially knowing there is a heart condition, is *extremely* worrisome, and *coughing* is the most common sign of asthma, not panting. I have a cat with asthma so I've BTDT too.
Again, PLEASE get a second opinion! Just because a vet "seems" competent doesn't make it so and the recommendation to not do meds is very alarming to me. http://www.newmanveterinary.com/felhcm.html
Megan
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- W.H. Murray
HRFLTiger - 22 Feb 2005 23:58 GMT Thanks for this Megan - having read your post, I'll be back at the vet on Thursday having him refered to Bristol University fekine center next week.
Helen
zuzu22@webtv.net - 23 Feb 2005 02:52 GMT Helen wrote:
>Thanks for this Megan - having read your >post, I'll be back at the vet on Thursday >having him refered to Bristol University >fekine center next week. Thank heavens! I am so happy that you are doing this. Reading what the other vet said in your original message was very upsetting, especially the part about the treadmill and the vet assuming it was asthma when that kind of activity is more likely cause to a cat with a heart condition to pant than one with asthma. Omar started panting just during the simple act of me trimming his claws and him struggling a bit. This scared me to death and I took him to the vet right away which resulted in him being diagnosed with the heart condition. Please let me know what happens (my email addy is valid) and thanks for going to a specialist.
Megan
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com
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"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way."
- W.H. Murray
Julie Cook - 23 Feb 2005 05:14 GMT > Thanks for this Megan - having read your post, I'll be back at the vet > on Thursday having him refered to Bristol University fekine center next > week. > > Helen Helen,
Lots of loud and rumbly purrs coming for HRFL Tiger and yourself that a diagnosis and treatment can be found quickly. I was going to share some information with you on feline inhaled medicines for feline asthma but after reading Megan's reply to you, I tend to agree with her. I'm glad that you are pursuing this with Bristol University Feline Center. When Sam was diagnosed with asthma the one symptom that seemed to really confirm the diagnosis was his cough that looked similar to a cat trying to cough up a hairball - extended neck, lowered head and hacking cough that didn't produce hairball. Of course by the time we arrived at the clinic Sam was breathing very fast and with open mouth and was in severe respiratory distress, but he never panted. I think the panting is more indicative of heart than asthma. But then there are people here, Marina and Ginger-lyn to name two, with a lot more experience with asthmatic cats and symptoms than I have.
Whatever the outcome, you have our purrs, meatloaf meditations and gentle headbutts.
Julie, Hobbes, Selena, Lacey, Sam and Barnabus
zuzu22@webtv.net - 23 Feb 2005 07:26 GMT >When Sam was diagnosed with asthma >the one symptom that seemed to really [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >and with open mouth and was in severe >respiratory distress, but he never panted. The symptoms Monty had were identical to yours and were what caused me to get him checked by the vet. He has never panted, even during rough play and I was fortunate that I caught it early on and he never went into respiratory distress which, as you know, is frightening. The first thing they did was an xray which showed "doughnuts" in the lung which are a typical sign of asthma.
Megan
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com
Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22
"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way."
- W.H. Murray
Howard Berkowitz - 22 Feb 2005 17:09 GMT > Well, himself is back from the TED, and very miffed about his shaved > armpits he is too! [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > a significant difference. The vet is competent, so I'll follow her > advice. This might be a local difference -- I don't recognize the acronyms. I'd think of CHF as congestive heart failure, and we usually spell out the different kinds of heart enlargement and cardiomyopathy. Are you referring to the valvular disease?
> Turns out that the panting is probably asthma!! Apparently after the > ultrasound, they put him onto the equivalent of a kitty treadmill to > see what he was like after exercise, and he started panting. Whilst > this *is* indicative of heart problems, they listened to his chest and > apparently he has "typical asthmatic sounds", whatever the hell they > are. Needless to say, after the last 24 hours, I don't really care! I'm very glad they found that out, if medication becomes appropriate in the future. In human congestive heart failure, beta blockers (technically beta-adrenergic receptor antagonists) are a relatively new addition to the basic regimen of diuretics and often digitalis. Beta blockers, however, are contraindicated in asthma.
> It's treatable, it's dealable, and my little boy is actually OK. :o)) > > Thank you all for the purrs and prayers - you really have no idea the > difference it made to me having the support. Purrs again. If it helps any, while I don't have heart valve problems, I did have heart enlargement from other conditions. With aggressive treatment, it's completely reversed. Hopefully that might happen for Tiger.
> Helen M HRFLTiger - 23 Feb 2005 16:15 GMT Hi Howard,
When I was refering to CHF, I was indeed refering to Congestive heart faliure. He has Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and Tricuspid valve displaysia.
HTH :o)
Helen M
jmcquown - 22 Feb 2005 17:12 GMT > Well, himself is back from the TED, and very miffed about his shaved > armpits he is too! [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Helen M This is excellent news! I'm so happy to hear it! Continued purrs for HRFL Tiger and all the other kitties and peoples who need purrs.
Jill
SuzQ - 22 Feb 2005 17:31 GMT I'm glad Tiger's problem is treatable. Healthy long-life purrs for Tiger.
Suz
Marina - 22 Feb 2005 18:02 GMT > It's treatable, it's dealable, and my little boy is actually OK. :o)) So glad to hear your little darling is OK. Did they put him on asthma meds? Nikki gets Prednisone, and it seems to keep her coughing down pretty well.
 Signature Marina, Frank and Nikki marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki
Howard Berkowitz - 22 Feb 2005 19:13 GMT > > It's treatable, it's dealable, and my little boy is actually OK. :o)) > > So glad to hear your little darling is OK. Did they put him on asthma > meds? Nikki gets Prednisone, and it seems to keep her coughing down > pretty well. Prednisone tends to cause less side effects in cats than in humans, but it's still often associated with fluid retention. If it were to be given for the asthma in a furred/furless person with heart failure, I don't think there's any question that a diuretic, probably furosemide (Lasix) should be given with it.
Megan does raise some valid concerns. I simply am not familiar with the veterinary literature involved. In humans, there would be no question of starting medications early, probably a diuretic.
Katz - 22 Feb 2005 18:45 GMT Oh, good boy, Tiger. Continuing to send the purrs.
Katz & cats
Debra Berry - 22 Feb 2005 19:32 GMT Good news that it is treatable! Purrs continue.
Debbie Berry dberry@mitre.org
> Well, himself is back from the TED, and very miffed about his shaved > armpits he is too! [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Helen M Charleen Welton - 22 Feb 2005 19:58 GMT Good, good news. More purrs equal more good news: purr, purr, purr!
Charleeen, Mr. Pumpkin, Aggie Marble, Victor Velcro
Adrian - 22 Feb 2005 20:00 GMT <snip>
> It's treatable, it's dealable, and my little boy is actually OK. :o)) > > Thank you all for the purrs and prayers - you really have no idea the > difference it made to me having the support. > > Helen M I'm so glad to hear it was nothing more serious.
 Signature Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.
Ginger-lyn Summer - 22 Feb 2005 20:32 GMT >Well, himself is back from the TED, and very miffed about his shaved >armpits he is too! [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Helen M So glad to hear this, Helen! Answering late, because I had to go to the vet yesterday to take in Sabra, who had been having problems with his asthma over the weekend.
If I can help in any way answering any questions about the asthma, feel free to ask, Helen.
Glad HRFL Tiger is okay :-)
Ginger-lyn
Julie Cook - 23 Feb 2005 05:43 GMT > So glad to hear this, Helen! Answering late, because I had to go to > the vet yesterday to take in Sabra, who had been having problems with [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ginger-lyn Lots of purrs on the way for Sabra to breathe easier very soon. Sam started coughing this afternoon for the first time since the end of January. I had taken it on myself to try to reduce the dosage of Flovent (steroids) that he's taking and that combined with nasty thunderstorms last night apparently was just too much for his fragile lungs. I gave him a couple of puffs of Albuterol and he seems to be doing better tonight. I've gone back to two puffs of the Flovent twice daily at least until he sees the vet at the end of March.
Purrs and gentle headbutts for Sabra as well as you.
Julie, Hobbes, Selena, Lacey, Sam and Barnabus
zuzu22@webtv.net - 23 Feb 2005 07:31 GMT >I had taken it on myself to try to reduce >the dosage of Flovent Can you give me an idea of the approximate cost of the asthma meds and how long they last? Although he's been doing ok with oral steroids I would rather do inhaled meds. I'm getting an inhaler for Monty and need to know what to expect cost wise for the meds so I can budget for it. Thanks.
Megan
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com
Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22
"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way."
- W.H. Murray
Julie Cook - 23 Feb 2005 17:20 GMT >>I had taken it on myself to try to reduce >>the dosage of Flovent [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Megan In the Atlanta area I paid around $50.00 for the Albuterol and it has 200 doses per canister. I give two puffs as needed in emergency. I've only used about 10 puffs of this. The Flovent in the Atlanta area is $150.00 for 120 doses (for us this is a one month supply, I give 2 puffs twice daily). I found it from a Canadian supplier for $90.00/month which includes postage and handling. In a stable cat people are giving 1 puff twice daily so that the canister would last two months. Also, I give a high dose at the moment because Sam's so recently had a crisis and we're still trying to get him stable. I give 220 mcg of Flovent (2 puffs/twice daily). I would think 110 mcg 1 puff/twice daily wouldn't cost as much. I suppose it depends on how stable your cat is. A good resource for all of this is www.fritzthebrave.com. I use the Aerocat chamber and haven't had any trouble with it at all. Sam is a pretty laid back cat, however. I'm not sure I could do this with Selena or Lacey.
Good luck. If I can help in any way (I can't imagine helping you, you are so very knowledgable in cat health) but I'll be more than happy to share experiences.
Julie
Marina - 24 Feb 2005 04:22 GMT > In the Atlanta area I paid around $50.00 for the Albuterol and it has > 200 doses per canister. I give two puffs as needed in emergency. I've [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > chamber and haven't had any trouble with it at all. Sam is a pretty laid > back cat, however. I'm not sure I could do this with Selena or Lacey. You're really selling me on the idea of inhaled meds, Julie, but I wonder if I'd be able to administer them to Nikki. When we visited the vet last week, she did talk of some toher medication, but that was oral as well, not inhaled. I wonder if I could find a vet here who would prescribe the inhaled stuff for a cat. I'll have to look around. Nikki seems to be doing fine on the Prednisone, but I am worried about the complications of long-term use. AAMF, we are having a bout of very cold weather, and Nikki was being difficult the other night so I only got a fraction of her meds into her, but she hasn't wheezed at all. Maybe in cold weather, she doesn't need so much of it.
 Signature Marina, Frank and Nikki marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki
Julie Cook - 24 Feb 2005 17:35 GMT > You're really selling me on the idea of inhaled meds, Julie, but I > wonder if I'd be able to administer them to Nikki. The main thing is to get her used to the mask that covers her nose and mouth. I bought a infant chamber and mask initially until I could order the Aerokat mask, which is specifically designed for cats. The Aerokat web site is http://www.aerokat.com/overview.htm and has some good information about giving inhaled meds. If you'd like I could send you the infant chamber/mask and you could see if Nikki will let you use it on her. It only takes about 15 seconds to administer two puffs of the drug so it doesn't have to stay there long. Some of the web site suggest rewarding with treats but Sam likes to be loved on so I get him in my lap or I kind of crouch over him so that he can't back away from me and administer the inhalant and then spend a minute or two just scritching his ears and chin. He adores this special time between the two of us.
When we visited the
> vet last week, she did talk of some toher medication, but that was oral > as well, not inhaled. I wonder if I could find a vet here who would > prescribe the inhaled stuff for a cat. There is a copy of the accepted protocol for inhaled meds for felines with asthma at www.fritzthebrave.com written by Dr. Philip Padrid. You could take this to your vet along with some of the other information found at this site that supports inhaled meds and even discusses other treatment options. I think primarily vets are uninformed about the inhaled meds and reluctant to prescribe them because they're unsure about their effectiveness. Overall I think any vet wants to do what is best of their patient and there's no doubt that the inhaled steroids are better in this application than the systemic steroids. The cost could keep vets from recommending this option although I would think that should be a personal decision, not one the vet would make.
I'll have to look around. Nikki
> seems to be doing fine on the Prednisone, but I am worried about the > complications of long-term use. AAMF, we are having a bout of very cold > weather, and Nikki was being difficult the other night so I only got a > fraction of her meds into her, but she hasn't wheezed at all. Maybe in > cold weather, she doesn't need so much of it. We're having a lot of rain right now and for the first time since the end of January Sam is having coughing attacks. I like being able to give him a couple of puffs of the Albuterol and seeing how quickly it seems to work. That's another advantage of the inhaled meds over the others is having a quick acting medication when they actually have an attack.
Good luck Marina and if I can be of any help let me know. Send me your address (or do I have it from the holiday card list?) and I'll be happy to send you the infant mask/chamber to see if Nikki will accept it.
Julie
Marina - 25 Feb 2005 11:14 GMT > Good luck Marina and if I can be of any help let me know. Send me your > address (or do I have it from the holiday card list?) and I'll be happy > to send you the infant mask/chamber to see if Nikki will accept it. If you have the holiday card list, you have my address. If you're absolutely sure you don't need the mask, and it isn't too expensive to send, I'd love to try it out. I suspect very much that Nikki won't accept it. She is *not* a laidback kind of cat. ;o)
 Signature Marina, Frank and Nikki marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki
Howard Berkowitz - 23 Feb 2005 19:31 GMT > > So glad to hear this, Helen! Answering late, because I had to go to > > the vet yesterday to take in Sabra, who had been having problems with [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Julie, Hobbes, Selena, Lacey, Sam and Barnabus Remember that corticosteroids (at least in people) take at least 8 hours to have any real effect, and may take several days. For asthma, they are either preventive drugs, or part of a long intensive treatment. Albuterol, however, can help in minutes, and should be your first choice if there are any visible symptoms.
Julie Cook - 23 Feb 2005 20:15 GMT >>Lots of purrs on the way for Sabra to breathe easier very soon. Sam >>started coughing this afternoon for the first time since the end of [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Albuterol, however, can help in minutes, and should be your first choice > if there are any visible symptoms. I had tried to drop his Flovent from 440 mcg bid to 220 mcg bid. It didn't work. As soon as I heard him coughing he received two puffs of Albuterol which helped. As I understand it, most people who are giving prednisone orally slowly taper off the prednisone as they add the Flovent so that after 2 weeks the cat is on inhaled steroids only. In Sam's case, he'd had enough injected steroids that they didn't want to add systemic steriods and just started him on the Flovent. I doubt he'll ever be able to come off the Flovent entirely but I'm hoping one day he won't need as much. I wonder what this stuff tastes/feels/smells like to him?
Julie
Howard Berkowitz - 23 Feb 2005 20:40 GMT > >>Lots of purrs on the way for Sabra to breathe easier very soon. Sam > >>started coughing this afternoon for the first time since the end of [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > day he won't need as much. I wonder what this stuff tastes/feels/smells > like to him? In humans, a maximum dose of inhaled corticosteroids is roughly equal to 5mg oral prednisone per day, with much lesser side effects since the inhaled corticosteroid is gnerally not absorbed in the body. It may or may not be possible to replace oral corticosteroids with inhaled.
No, it is unlikely an asthmatic will ever be able to come off anti-inflammatory drugs such as corticosteroids or cromolyns. While there may be some reduction after an acute episode, you generally find a maintenance dose and keep it there indefinitely.
What criteria are you using to decide when to reduce the Flovent dosage? Is this a cost consideration, or based on symptoms?
Julie Cook - 23 Feb 2005 21:17 GMT > In humans, a maximum dose of inhaled corticosteroids is roughly equal to > 5mg oral prednisone per day, with much lesser side effects since the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > What criteria are you using to decide when to reduce the Flovent dosage? > Is this a cost consideration, or based on symptoms? Purely emotional. He looks so pitiful when its time for his medication that I promised him I'd do what I could to make it easier for him. That and he hadn't had a coughing spell since the end of January. What I need to keep reminding myself is that its only been about 5 weeks since he crashed. That is not such a very long time ago. Certainly not enough time to have recovered completely from a collapsed lung lobe, fluid buildup around his lungs, etc. I'm planning to board him in March when we go out of town for 4 days to make sure he gets his meds. I'm going to ask the vet to do another lung x-ray at that time to see where we are. Until then ... he gets the prescribed 2 puffs bid - no matter what kind of sad eyes he gives me.
Julie
Howard Berkowitz - 23 Feb 2005 23:26 GMT > > In humans, a maximum dose of inhaled corticosteroids is roughly equal > > to [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Until then ... he gets the prescribed 2 puffs bid - no matter what kind > of sad eyes he gives me. I know it's hard to medicate our furkids -- especially when they are brave about it. Chatterley (RB) would ask me if I was feeling lucky when it was time to squirt ointment into her eyes. Mr. Clark, however, is far more brave, both for eye and ear ointment. He rather quickly recognized the tube, and would watch me pick it up, not move when I positioned the nozzle in his ear, and only give an obviously automatic flinch when I squirted.
He's a very tolerant cat, which is good since he's a very large and powerful cat. With him, and with Clifford (RB), there's a great deal of bonding and trust. I don't know if it's just that they felt that I wasn't going to hurt them, or was actually trying to help, but I appreciate their attitudes.
I will admit that Chatterley had reason to be suspicious of all treatments after my ex-wife, for reasons she cannot explain to this day, chased Chatterley with a flea spray, giving a demented laugh all the way up the stairs and under the bed.
To return to asthma, the great breakthrough leading to the enormous strides made in treating it in all species is realizing that it is a disease of inflammation in which the inflammation leads to constricted breathing passages, as opposed to a disease that is basically about breathing difficulty. Control the inflammation, and, ideally, there are never breathing problems.
Drugs such as corticosteroids, cromolyns, and leukotriene inhibitors are anti-inflammatory, and have no immediate effect on breathing. There are some long-lasting drugs to help breathing (e.g., salmeterol (Serevent)) that have no place in an acute attack, but still are not anti-inflammatory. Things that do help in acute attacks are short-acting beta-agonists like albuterol, sometimes anticholinergics like ipratropium (Atrovent), epinephrine in emergencies, and possibly caffeine-related drugs like aminophylline and theophylline. The last two, I suspect, are toxic in cats.
The reality is that unless you can remove the cause of the inflammation, which could be an allergy, changes in air temperature, exercise, or just things we don't understand, you can't stop or reduce the anti-inflammatory drugs. The good news is that the anti-inflammatories prevent the need for the quick-acting bronchodilators. Bronchodilators are probably a little more scary, as they can cause rapid heartbeat, dry mouth, and other immediate symptoms.
Cheryl - 24 Feb 2005 00:47 GMT > The reality is that unless you can remove the cause of the > inflammation, which could be an allergy, changes in air > temperature, exercise, or just things we don't understand, you > can't stop or reduce the anti-inflammatory drugs. Not WRT asthma, but isn't it possible for an allergy to be "outgrown"? (An allergy that causes skin outbreaks rather than respiratory distress)
 Signature Cheryl /hoping!
Howard Berkowitz - 24 Feb 2005 01:47 GMT > > The reality is that unless you can remove the cause of the > > inflammation, which could be an allergy, changes in air [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "outgrown"? (An allergy that causes skin outbreaks rather than > respiratory distress) Sometimes. In humans, that's most likely to be associated with puberty -- I don't have any idea what spaying and neutering will do.
As something of an aside, there are childhood "reactions" that are not true allergies. Certainly until I was in my late teens, if I tried to swallow cooked egg white, I'd always gag and frequently vomit. As an adult, I don't particularly like egg white, but it doesn't have this effect. When I discussed it with an allergist, he said things like this were often observed but not understood. They definitely were not allergies.
Some of it may be the "acquired taste" mechanism, which also is poorly understood. Coffee is something, for example, that few children like, along with strong-tasting food in general.
As a child, I don't think I ever tried raw shellfish. Oysters and such gag many adults. I've just never understood raw oysters, as I detect no real flavor, but I love sea urchin (uni) sushi.
Karen - 24 Feb 2005 01:54 GMT >>> The reality is that unless you can remove the cause of the >>> inflammation, which could be an allergy, changes in air [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > gag many adults. I've just never understood raw oysters, as I detect no > real flavor, but I love sea urchin (uni) sushi. That is broccoli for me. It would make me throw up as a child, but I like it as an adult. I think it had to do with texture.
Cheryl - 24 Feb 2005 02:02 GMT > Sometimes. In humans, that's most likely to be associated with > puberty -- I don't have any idea what spaying and neutering will > do. I keep hoping that it will diminish with time. He's now 3, and has had the skin problems since I got him at the age of 6 months (though I really think he was older than that then - 2 years ago Mar 16, hence his name Shamrock. :)) It honestly has gotten better. He used to break out on his back, the sides of his torso, the backs of his rear legs and the base of his tail. Now it's mostly just his back and the base of his tail, but sometimes still maybe one leg.
> As something of an aside, there are childhood "reactions" that > are not true allergies. Certainly until I was in my late teens, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > oysters, as I detect no real flavor, but I love sea urchin (uni) > sushi. For me as a kid it was milk. I can remember having to sit at the table until it was gone, and it would get so warm and stinky. I'd "down" it just to get away from the table, then get sick. I still can't drink a plain glass of milk.
 Signature Cheryl
Howard Berkowitz - 25 Feb 2005 23:08 GMT > For me as a kid it was milk. I can remember having to sit at the > table until it was gone, and it would get so warm and stinky. I'd > "down" it just to get away from the table, then get sick. I still > can't drink a plain glass of milk. As a teenager and as an adult, I greatly enjoy milk. Apparently, I went through a phase at age 7 or 8 when I didn't.
That period coincided with a visit to family who had a hotel and restaurant in Havana. As I keep having to remind the security clearance people, Castro was off in the mountains at the time.
Anyway, La Rue 19 was a very nice restaurant, with excellent food and service. When the waiters realized that we were the family of the owners, we got especially good treatment.
One of my mother's rules was that I had to finish my milk before I could have dessert. (cue Twilight Zone music) I kept thinking I'd finished my milk, look back, and it had refilled.
"Drink your milk!"
"I _did_!"
WHOMP! "Stop lying!"
But whatever I did, the enchanted milk glass wouldn't empty. I sloshed whenever I walked, and the slaps I got made me sound like a milkshake.
Eventually, I hunched over the milk glass, protecting it with both hands and my face, ignoring the food. With the gentlest of touches, a waiter, trained never to let a guest's glance go empty, reached down and tried to pry my fingers loose.
It was at least a moral victory when my mother realized what had happened. I suspect, however, I had drunk a quantity that would be respectable for a hungry calf.
badwilson - 26 Feb 2005 01:40 GMT > For me as a kid it was milk. I can remember having to sit at the > table until it was gone, and it would get so warm and stinky. I'd > "down" it just to get away from the table, then get sick. I still > can't drink a plain glass of milk. I used to hate milk with a passion when I was a kid too. Luckily my mom also hated it so I wasn't forced to drink it. I think in the first 30 years of my life I might have consumed less than 2 liters of milk straight. For some reason I have lately started to love it! It has to be straight out of the carton from the fridge though. Unfortunately it does a number on my tummy and I can't have too much of it. Probably because my system isn't used to it from not having it for so long. -- Britta Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that's covered in fur! Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album
glsummer@neptunelink.com - 24 Feb 2005 20:19 GMT >Lots of purrs on the way for Sabra to breathe easier very soon. Sam >started coughing this afternoon for the first time since the end of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Julie, Hobbes, Selena, Lacey, Sam and Barnabus Thank you, Julie.
Hope Sam starts doing better soon, too.
Ginger-lyn
Home Pages: http://www.spiritrealm.com/summer/ http://www.angelfire.com/folk/glsummer (homepage & cats) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~summer/index.htm (genealogy) http://www.i-love-cats.com/meow/glsummer/ (The Violence Against Animals in Movies Website)
Adrian - 23 Feb 2005 17:10 GMT > So glad to hear this, Helen! Answering late, because I had to go to > the vet yesterday to take in Sabra, who had been having problems with [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ginger-lyn Purrs for Sabra.
 Signature Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.
Christine Burel - 22 Feb 2005 23:13 GMT So glad to hear the info on HRFL Tiger isn't dire at this point -- purrs for the poor baby's indignity and also for your nerves. Christine
> Well, himself is back from the TED, and very miffed about his shaved > armpits he is too! [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Helen M Cheryl - 23 Feb 2005 02:18 GMT <snip>
> It's treatable, it's dealable, and my little boy is actually OK. > :o)) > > Thank you all for the purrs and prayers - you really have no > idea the difference it made to me having the support. Good news, and more purrs coming for Tiger!
 Signature Cheryl
Sam Nash - 23 Feb 2005 03:40 GMT > Well, himself is back from the TED, and very miffed about his shaved > armpits he is too! [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Helen M Well, while not *wonderful* news, it's excellent that the condition can be successfully dealt with. Purrs continuing for HRFL Tiger. Sam, closely supervised by Mistletoe
Krista - 23 Feb 2005 07:21 GMT > Well, himself is back from the TED, and very miffed about his shaved > armpits he is too! Awww, we're sending purrs his way. I'm glad it's nothing more serious than asthma, and that his heart has not gotten dramatically worse!
------ Krista
Lesley Madigan - 23 Feb 2005 09:38 GMT > Well, himself is back from the TED, and very miffed about his shaved > armpits he is too! [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Helen M I'm so glad! It's nice to get good news like this! Purrs to HRFL and you
Lesley
Slave to the Fabulous Furballs
Judith Latham - 23 Feb 2005 21:21 GMT > Well, himself is back from the TED, and very miffed about his shaved > armpits he is too!
> The vet doing the Ultrasound and X-rays was very nice - she was also > very direct, which I prefer. Apparently, Tigers heart murmer "HAS" [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > significant that it merits medication at the moment as the whole thing > seems relatively stabalised. Snipped......
> It's treatable, it's dealable, and my little boy is actually OK. :o))
> Thank you all for the purrs and prayers - you really have no idea the > difference it made to me having the support.
> Helen M Purrs and prayers for Tiger and for more good news.
Judith
 Signature Judith Latham Stourbridge, West Midlands. UK.
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