Don't blame me.  I voted for The Magnificent Bastard
<magnif_bastard@hotmail.com>.

Who's website is that?  I took the liberty of looking around...

http://victorjr.users.superford.org/pictures/vicjossie.jpg

http://victorjr.users.superford.org/pictures/blayonnaise.jpg

http://victorjr.users.superford.org/pictures/360.jpg

...whoever it is, his Photoshop skills rival Steven Perkoff's.

Will you deliver it?

sinofabitch writes:

"Neatly," and "Smartly."

"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.

Here's Jerry's version

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm  Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite  Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat  And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

Here's yours;

"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

"When you get bagged for lying you're MARKED
FOR LIFE," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY.

BWEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

Here's a BUNCH of MENTALLY ILL LYING
DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARDS
HURTING dogs and LYING abHOWET it:

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

From: culprit (culprit@flashmail.com)
Subject: Re: Video clip......."Nero" practicing bark alert,
while walking backwards
Date: 2004-06-05 18:53:50 PST

--------------------------------

From: Mark Shaw (mshaw@bangnetcom.com)
Subject: Re: Fido-Shock
Date: 2002-04-10 14:12:18 PST

In article <gWLs8.203228$af7.101030@rwcrnsc53>,
"Coleman Brumley" <clbrumley@home.com> wrote:

If you're talking about the pet-grade hotwire system, I have
one. It's to keep boarded dogs out of my flowers.

I take it you're considering running the wire across the top
of the fence?  I don't think I'd recommend that, although it
may be worth a try.  Watch closely -- the one case where I saw
a hotwire used in this fashion caused the dog undue stress and
frustration, and he tried even harder to get over the fence.
So be prepared to take it down right away.

That was a Dane, though.  With a Saint things might be
different.

--
Mark Shaw

You want THIS?:

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

Well then GET USED TO PAIN FEAR FORCE
INTIMIDATION and MURDERING DOGS:

"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will
Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe.
This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times
It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author:  "Courteous Canine."

"I have heard advice stating that you should
pre-load your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work
as efficiently as possible. What  does this mean?

When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior." --Mike Dufort author of the zero selling
book "Courteous Canines"

"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs we have
trained require much more frequent and heavy application
of pressure (PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your increasing authority,
and the job is not done until it is overcome

Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less
tractable dogs may require you to progress to striking
them more sharply.

With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the
stick. Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to
the dummy.

Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog,

Now you are ready to progress to what most
people think of as force-fetching: the ear pinch.

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent
that resisting your will fades in importance.

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb;

even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against that

Say "fetch" while pressing the dummy
against its lips and pinching its ear.

if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing
and the collar, even the buckle on the collar.

Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in"

sinofabitch writes:

"Neatly," and "Smartly."

"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

"When you get bagged for lying you're MARKED
FOR LIFE," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY.

BWEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

"It was kind of funny, in an absurd way.  The rabbit
was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried
blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs
stiffening quickly.

It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so
that made it much harder for her.

And he was killed by bichons.

Her dogs had torn it apart.  My one student who had
shown up (another weird thing about the night) and I
had to continuously check for heart and bowel sounds
for her, until she could accept that the rabbit was dead.

(The rigor mortis in his back legs she attributed to "pain").

Full moon.

Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com

YOUR STUDENT, leah. Like that RECENT GRADUATE
STUDENT Rottie who'd been in your SOCIALIZATION
classes since IT was ten weeks old who RECENTLY
MURDERED a little innocent DEAD DOG at the park.

Yeah. You and ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN.

You hurt intimidate and murder critters, leah.

Really Bad Day
Date: 2004-03-21 17:34:07 PST

HOWEDY leah,

BWEEEEEHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

You're no dog trainer, you're a FRAUD.

Class??? You don't have trainin classes you
teach people to throw treats to dogs for mindless
unthinking behaviors and tell folks to jerk and
choke and shock dogs when bribing and avoiding
behaviors doesn't work an then you try to get HOWET
callin THAT, trainin.

AnyWON who'd trust you to train them to handle
their dog was in a state of shock or takin anti psychotic
meds before they started.

Tough break. R.I.P., dog.

-----------------------

Leah        Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems. Recenly changed to
another ANTI PSYCHOTIC prescription.

"I don't think Jerry intentionally lies.  I think he twists
things around in his own mind until he actually believes
what he's saying."

Jerry is the only poster here who gives dangerous
advice. Google for spike and squirt.  And let's not
forget the times he's told posters whose dogs have
medical problems that his halfwits-end program could
cure them.

PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life

All truth passes through three stages.
First, it  is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.

"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~  )  >

ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?
,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_)  Have a great day!
/  V)
(l l l)  Your Puppy Wizard. <{}YPW; ~ }  >
oo-oo
GOT MILK?

Rot in hell you fucktard.

Looks like people are trying to get a head start on either St. Pats Day, or
Easter cooking.

Grandma Baskett's Pumpkin Pie
1 1/2 cup pumpkin
3/4 cup sugar
1 cup milk
2 eggs, well beaten
1 teaspoon cinnamon
1/2 teaspoon cloves
1 teaspoon ginger
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 Tablespoon melted butter.

Mix ingredients, put in pie shell.  Cook at 425 degrees F. for 15 minutes
and 350 degrees F. for 45 minutes.

Enjoy.

HOWEDY Mag!

Did your free kat run HOWET on you? I think he's up the
road a piece from  here an there a little on the other
side of the street there from me here.

You want him back to make sure he gets a good HOWES?

He still looks pretty good. A tad lonely maybe. Just like  in
the pic, EXXXCEPT MOORE of him in MOORE pics.

Same profile, HOWEver.

From: "Michael A. Ball" <Guard...@wireco.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:35:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Ethical Dilemma (Son bitten by dog in schoolyard) (long)

"AussieResc" <aussier...@aol.com> wrote>

This NG is specifically for dog rescue.  I hate cats and never
give a cat an even break--unless they just happen to break
in the middle.

When I started to work at the animal shelter, cleaning kennels, I was
asked if I liked cats. I replied
enthusiastically, "Yes, if they are cooked  right!"

I've never had to work with the cats! :-)

We're all different.

Michael

From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net> -
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:52:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Symphony rests in Peace.

Hello michael,

No she wasn't euthanized, she was MURDERED, because you do that stuff
to dogs for a living for yourself. You're part of the problem, michael.

That IS reassuring, michael. Is that what your 'boss' told you?

I'd prefer you'd take his place.

BWWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! YOU KILL DOGS FOR A LIVING, michael.

Your pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn is a pathological liar and
notorious dog abuser, you puke.

What would be sobering would be to THINK about what you're doing.

puppy

Sorry mikey, you just don't have the knowHOWE.

Ask cindymooreon about the tremendous handicap deafness is. She can't
even hear her dogs scream when she pinches and twists their ears and
toes and shocks and jerks and chokes them on her pronged spiked pinch
choke collar, mikey. That's sad, isn't it?

Looking in the mirror couldn't be EZ for you, mikey. Why do you come
here with your tripe? Get the heel outta here. This forum is for people

who want to HELP dogs, not HELP KILL THEM.  Maybe you and janet and
john richardson and the bobsey twins lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and
cindymooreon will get together on a nice dog killing forum?

I guarantee you couldn't find your butt in the dark with both hands
even if you had a couple Thugs helping.

What the heel kind of crap are you spouting? YOU KILL DOGS FOR A
LIVELIHOOD.

Yes mike. And your killing machine is warmed up and ready to kill them
too, with your expert help, mikey. Thanks.

Well, aren't you the nice guy? Did you hold Symphony and wisper LIES in

her ear? Oh, I forgot, her only problem was she can't hear. Good reason

to have killed her, mikey. Good work.

Oh, you are ever so welcome, mikey.

Guardian? Of WHAT? The rendering plant you sell the dead animals to?

You should bring your kat inside the HOWES
to keep it safe.

HOWEDY Master Of Deception blankman,

From: T...@dog-play.com
Date: 7 Feb 2005 20:10:16 GMT
Subject: Re: Invisble Fenceing

whittled these words:

Well Master Of Deception blankman, that's
not a matter for dog behavior groups. He can
get whatever kinda fence he LIKES unless
there's some kinda zonin laws.

A dog is a dog. AIN'T IT, Master Of Deception blankman.

THAT'S NOT NORMAL.

INDEED?

We KNOW HOWE COME dogs FEAR L-HOWED
S-HOWENDS and are shy of people. DON'T WE,
Master Of Deception blankman. It's CAUSED by
crating and ignoring their dog's cries an chokin
shocking withholding bribes attention and affection
and traditionally obedience trainin them as taught
by HOWER human societes and veterinary organizatons.

You can put in ANY kinda fence you LIKE
accordin to your zonin laws... the dog won't
care. THIS AIN'T a question for dog forums.

Oh. There's NO LAWS against HURTING your dog.

That a fact?

Oh. Well THAT EXXXPLAINS HOWE COME
the OP GOT A PROBLEM. DON'T IT, Master
Of Deception blankman. HE AIN'T AFRAID
of HURTIN and INTIMIDATIN his dog. THAT'S
HOWE COME his dog is SHY of strangers
and FEARS L-HOWED S-HOWENDS.

AIN'T IT, Master Of Deception blankman.

Dog trainin AIN'T seasonal work like fence buildin.

Like the KINDA "trainin" The Amazing Puppy
Wizard has PROVEN is the CAUSE of all
temperament and behavior problems and
most heelth DIS-EASE as taught by most
every EXXXPERT in the industry?

The Amazing Puppy Wizard TEACHES HIS
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Students all over the
Whole Wild World HOWE to COMMAND their
dog's NORMAL NATURAL INNATE INSTINCTIVE
REFLEXIVE HABITUAL TERRORTORIAL NATURE
to COMPEL the dog to stay by and PROTECT HIS
HOWES JUST LIKE HOWE King Georgie felt HIS
colonies would PROTECT the CRHOWEN.

Certainly that's not true at all. EVERY THING
WE DO TO HOWER DOGS and CHILDREN
MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

Independence Day. That was the day the great
US of A violently got their own permission to hurt
intimidate force and murder those representatives
of The King sent here abHOWETS to ENFORCE
the King's LAW, a Rulership that could with WON
Royal WORD END all VIOLENCE, in favor of the
rule of common WIZEDUMB in the name of freedom
of choice, democracy and world peace.

They're PROBABLY HOWEtlawed in the OP's COMMUNITY.

Shouldn't be NO PROBLEM to get the authorities
to ENFORCE the LAW thereby SOLVING the FEAR
of L-HOWED noises from errant children violating
the LAW of the land.

Like a burglar or meter reader.

ALL FEAR IS CAUSED BY MISHANDLING
unless it's TRAINED, as in K-9's.

In the good ol days under King Georgie HE
coulda issued a COMMAND to train and handle
ALL dogs and children as HE HISSELF would
EXXXPECT his servants to CARE FOR, LOVE
and TREAT HIM, bein nearly DIVINE.

What fence? The fence don't matter on accHOWENT
of we train the dog to UNDERSTAND HIS PUPPERTY
and to not pay attention to the fence on accHOWENT of
THAT AIN'T HIS BUSINESS, it's HOWETA BHOWENDS.

Dogs can be perimeter trained in a few minutes if
you know HOWE to make the dog naturally want to
do anything you ask, JUST LIKE HOWE The King
used to have it, pryor to FREEDOM an DEMOCRACY,
PRYOR to when hurting innocent dumb critters coulda
been HOWEtlawed with WON COMMAND instead of
leavin it up to the PREFERENCE of DOG LOVERS to
CHOOSE HOWE MUCH PAIN FEAR FORCE and
INTIMIDATION is apupriate to use to force CON-TROLL
of innocent critters. Like the colonies... for EXXXAMPLE.

We've got a smorgasbord of CASE HISTORIES
of DEAD DOGS and INJURED HUMANS thanks
to the freedom to choose HOWE we HURT and
INTIMDATE HOWER dogs and children.

Dogs and children are FEARFUL on accHOWENT
of they're MISANDLED and intentionally ABUSED
by dog and child lovers who themselves are victims
of the same FREEDOMS we murdered King George's
lawful representatives abHOWET.

You mean abHOWET fences or HURTIN dogs?

Well that's absurd. Dogs are ONLY FEARFUL
when they're ABUSED by dog abusin mental
cases.  Like yourself, Master Of Deception blankman.

ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR.

ALL FEAR IS CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

You mean a FEARFUL MISHANDLED ABUSED dog.

On accHOWENT of he's been HURT and
INTIMIDATED someMOORE by DOG a
LOVER like yourself and WENT INSANE.
Like yoursef and your punk thug coward
mental case pals.  Like liea's dog Cubbe
and granville's DEAD DOG and Robert
Crim's DEAD DOG Fritz and Misty's
DEAD DOG Peaches and tara o. aka
tee's DEAD DOG Summer and chrisman
dinan's DEAD DOG Usal and steve walker's
DEAD DOG Sampson and purple pony's
DEAD DOG Raggdoll and culprit aka kelly's
seven THOWESAND DOLLAR DEAD KAT.

HOWE COME would a normal natural apupriately
CON-TROLLED managed and trained criter like
a child or dog FEAR someWON passin bye his
HOWES?

You mean unlawfully. Dogs an kids go together like
hand in glove. Some dogs are so naturally adoring
of children they can't think of NUTHIN ELSE but tendin
to their needs and protecting them.

You mean a dog who's been HURT and INTIMIDATED
by his ETHICKAL UNCONDITIONALLY LOVING owner.

That so? You mean HURTING and INTIMIDATING
dogs on accHOWENT of you got the RIGHT to
hurt and intimidate your dogs as you PREFER?

NO PROBLEM WE GOT PLENTY IN  SHELTERS
who've been ALLHOWED TO RUN AMOK that
JUST NEEDED a little OBEDIENCE TRAINING.
Those neglected dogs are in NEED of GOOD
HOWESES where they'll be PROTECTED from
UNFAIR LAWS which if The King had sumpthin
to do with it would SEZ HURTIN and INTIMIDATING
innocent DUMB CRITTERS is CRIMINAL INSANITY
and punishable by imprisonment in the T-HOWER.

You mean a innocent passerbye.

PHANTAZAM?

Well THAT'S on accHOWENT of the dog
owner asked for a jury of his PEERS, Master
Of Deception blankman. In the good o'l
days we'd have thrown the OFFENDER in
the T-HOWER of London for a few months
to teach them RESPECT for PUPPERTY
and other people's critters protecting their
turff as The King's men was PROTECTIN
HIS when some rabblerHOWESERS went
off on HIM abHOWET FREEDOM and
DEMOCRACY and world peace.

IOW, he was another fearfully raised critter,
the victim of parental or societal abuse, no
DHOWET. OR maybe he was CONDITIONED
to fear FEAR AGGRESSIVE DOGS in the
COMMUNITY?

Big deal. He was a COWARD. We got 'm
by the THOWESANDS right here, Master
Of Deception blankman. Like yourself,
for EXXXAMPLE.

Re: Invisible fence malfunction
HOWEDY culprit,

Only liars dog abusers cowards and
active long term incurable mental
cases post here abHOWETS.

The ISSUE of HURTING DOGS.

Well, he's come to the right place.

SEE?

Makes you nerveHOWES, eh? Put the dog
HOWET in the yard and you won't have to
listen to it.

Like it's SUPPOSED to.

Better fix it. Your dog might MISS his shock
and take off lookin for it like HOWE culprit's
dogs done.

No. After WON year and a half your
dog should be TRAINED not to cross
the perimeter UNLESS your SHOCK
FENCE was keepin him there by
HURTING and INTIMIDATING him.

Yeah. A dog got set on fire from his shock collar.
HOWER DOG LOVERS tried to blame the BURNS
on TRICK PHOTOGRAPHY.

BWEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

Yeah. It's even less common than your dog
attacking innocent children and your HOWES
guests like liea's and granville's DEAD DOG
done.

Yeah. That was the first thing liea done
when her dog Cubbe bolted through her
shock system to ESCAPE her abuse.

Ahhh. A WIZE idea. We wouldn't want to
allHOWE the dog to ESCAPE while waitin
on his new shock collar.

Yeah. Your dogs started attacking each other
a couple days after you started shocking them.

THEN they MURDERED your own DEAD KAT
when you FORGOT to put their SHOCK COLLARS
on them.

REMEMBER culprit aka kelly aka metta?

Her kat was beloved, death was her blessing:

The Amazing Puppy Wizard is the only dog trainer
in history who teaches people all over the Whole
Wild World to handle train and rehabilitate ALL
behavior problems NEARLY INSTANTLY for FREE,
withHOWET HURTIN noWON.

Marilyn and professor dermer and perhps Larry,
cause THEY understand a little abHOWET behavior.

You mean the kat you trained your dogs to MURDER.

Well perhaps if you wasn't MENTAL you
wouldn'ta HURT your dogs till they MURDERED
your DEAD kat.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard is QUOTING YOUR
CASE HISSSTORY of TRAINING YOUR DOGS
to MURDER YOUR KAT by FORGETTING to PUT
their SHOCK COLLARS on them when you got
back from the vet after $1500.00 in surgery.

You wanna see amusing?:

"we'll keep the indoor boundary set up, and keep
***testing the dogs with it (hiding behind the railing
and meowing usually does the trick)*** so that they're
familiar with the warning tone.

Manu is already pretty sure he knows what it means,
and whenever Lola trips it, he'll bite her hind leg and
pull her down the steps so the tone stops.  he's such
a big brother, always trying to keep sis out of trouble."

And THEN (Drumroll please, Mr. Maestro...):

                      ****************************

                    Your Attention to center ring...

No. Get it RIGHT. You mean anyHOWE.

                 ****************************

"i dropped of Mo upstairs, as usual, and headed
down to let the dogs out of their crates.

for some reason i'll never know,

*(EVERY WON KNOWS NHOWE.)

*(forgetting to put their SHOCK COLLARS ON THEM)

Mo followed me downstairs.  he never does this.
and i didn't hear him coming.  however, the dogs did.
they ran to investigate, and found a strange smelling,
bloody cat in their house.

needless to say, they attacked him"

Cause culprit aka kelly aka METTA FORGOT
to put their shock collars back on after uncrating
them and she DIDN'T TELL MO THEY WASN'T
WEARIN THEIR SHOCK COLLARS.

Naaah. Leavin you runnin loose is frightenin.

HOWEDY People,

INDEEDY. Like HOWE culprit aka kelly aka
metta's $7,000.00 DEAD kat WAS.

The PUPS would MURDER her just like
HOWE YOU TRAINED THEM to MURDER
YOUR OWN DEAD KAT.

Cause you trained your dogs to MURDER IT.

A WIZE idea.

INDEEDY. LikeWIZE, The Amazing Puppy Wizard
will keep posting YOUR CASE HISTORY to IDENTIFY
EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT you and your pals as
the lying animal abusng mental cases you are.

Here's the IN-complete story (short version) of
HOWE culprit aka kelly aka metta (metta is culprit
aka kelly's aka on the MENTAL PERSONS news
groups) TRAINED HER DOGS to MURDER HER
DEAD KAT:

From: culprit (culprit@flashmail.com)
Subject: Re: Video clip......."Nero" practicing bark alert,
while walking backwards
Date: 2004-06-05 18:53:50 PST

           ----------------------------------

there are different brands of fences, and each
one has a variety of settings, set to the dog's
specific reaction.  Lola's collar is set to give
more juice than Manu's, because she's more
likely to ignore the buzz, whereas Manu wants
nothing to do with it.  i have no idea what brand or
setting Hope's collar was set at.

there's also the fact that Hope has lots of thick
fur and a good fat layer (to keep her warm in the
water) and my dogs are scrawny and nekkid.

so maybe Hope needs a higher setting to work
for her.  it's really hard to say without comparing
the collars directly.

and you're right, if Lola really wants out of the yard,
she'll run through the fence.  the annoyance doesn't
keep her in, which is why she's always supervised
outdoors.

Manu, OTOH, is happy to stay as far from the
fence as he can.  what can i say, he's part eevil
pit bull and part fraidy cat.

-kelly

From: culprit (culprit@flashmail.com)
Subject: we got "the fence"
Date: 2004-02-14 15:48:26 PST

after having the appraisal for the real fencing coming out at
over $11,000, we decided to put up an invisible fence, just
until we can save some cash for the real one.  after we put up
the real fence, the invisible one will probably remain as a
"fail safe" to keep the dogs off the real fence.

yes, i'm aware of most of the cons, i've always been
against them myself, until i talked to a lot of people
who have them, and had the invisible fence trainer
come out to meet the dogs.

i'll only be letting them out when i'm home and can keep a
direct eye on them, and we've discussed it with all of the
neighbors, and they've committed to containing their dogs,
so they won't come into my yard unless invited.

anyway, we had it installed outside today, and started the
indoor part of training.  we decided to put the training fence
on the stairway, since the cats like to hang out up there and
the dogs aren't allowed to go up.

we put up a baby gate just past the invisible barrier,
so that they can't go through it, even if they want to.

i tried the collar on myself before we let the dogs try it,
and while it is uncomfortable, it's not painful, and i'm
comfortable with the dogs wearing it.

we thought Manu would require a higher setting than Lola,
because she's pretty sensitive to correction, and he is a big
meathead who doesn't feel a thing.  this played out with the
first part of training, with Lola turning around and leaving
the steps at the first buzz, and Manu just standing there,
wagging his tail, like he didn't feel a thing.

we upped the setting three more times before Manu
"got it", and then he immediately turned around and
didn't go up the steps at all after that.

the weird thing is that Lola, who was clearly
bothered by the experience, kept trying to go
up to get the cat's area anyway.

this confirmed something i had suspected.

Lola may be more sensitive to correction, but
she also has more "drive", and will put up with
something she dislikes longer than Manu will.

Lola sat on the steps, cycling through the collar's
three 10 second failsafe cycles,  then tried to climb
over the baby gate as though nothing had happened.

we decided to up the correction one setting, with the
theory that she'd find it so unpleasant it would stop
her from climbing the steps, then we'd turn it back
down once she realized she shouldn't be up there.

unfortunately, she never did realize it, so we had
to leave it on the higher setting.

so hers is set lower than Manu's, but she reacts a
lot more strongly to it (scratching at her neck, etc)
than he does.

we'll keep the indoor boundary set up, and keep
testing the dogs with it (hiding behind the railing
and meowing usually does the trick) so that they're
familiar with the warning tone.

Manu is already pretty sure he knows what it means,
and whenever Lola trips it, he'll bite her hind leg and
pull her down the steps so the tone stops.  he's such
a big brother, always trying to keep sis out of trouble.

the outdoor training will begin later in the week, i'll post
updates once we get done with them.

-kelly

From: culprit (culprit@flashmail.com)
Subject: another tragedy
Date: 2004-06-24 14:16:01 PST

today Mo-kitty woke up in a large spot of blood.
his wound had been bleeding all night.  i took
him to the vet, who said that this was not abnormal,
did some blood tests, and sent him home with me.

since he's not allowed to groom himself, he had
quite a bit of blood on him, which i was going to
clean up later.

i dropped of Mo upstairs, as usual, and headed
down to let the dogs out of their crates.

for some reason i'll never know, Mo followed me
downstairs.  he never does this.  and i didn't hear
him coming.  however, the dogs did.

they ran to investigate, and found a strange smelling,
bloody cat in their house.

needless to say, they attacked him.

poor Mo had that stupid cone on his head and
couldn't see to escape.  he was weak and sick
and didn't have a chance.

he didn't survive the trip back to the vets.

he died in my lap on the way there.

i'm in shock right now.

everyone is telling me to get the dogs out of
the house to deal with my grief, but how can
i deal without them?

they didn't understand that what they did is
wrong, they're not people.  they smelled
blood and instinct took over.  i thought about
getting rid of them for about two seconds.

but i can't.  i love them too much.  and i need
them more than ever right now.  poor dogs,
they know something is wrong, and they're all
cuddled up to me.

they don't even know that they caused my suffering.

i'm not angry at them.  just sad at Mo's passing.

after all that work to make him well, for him to die
in this way...   it's like a cosmic joke.  like a bad movie.

i'm emotionally torn.  i'm numb.  and i'm so very tired.

-kelly

----------------------------------

"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.

"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without starting the
whole cruelty thread again so I'll state my opinion once and
won't defend it further: any method can be cruel for some
dogs.

Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but w        e'vecomealongwaysincethen.Shetrusts
us now as I mentioned in a recent post. Point is, she's been
rewarded for coming, but she's never been punished, even in
the mildest way, for not coming.

Is it time for that?

What might I look for to tell?"

"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help.
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusMed.WMV
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusSmall.WMV"

THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and
ASYLUM ESCAPEES.

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!

Here's Cubbe ATTACKING a neighbor's dog
and previHOWEsly attacking liea's only friend
and assaulting a couple kids and escaping her
surrHOWEND SHOCK SYSTEM, which MADE
HER AGGRESSIVE:

"It Was Horrible! I Let Cubbe Out In The Backyard With
Her Usual ZAP Collar - The 10 Year Old Child Went To
Give Cubbe A Hug  She Gave A Snarl-Snap  Cubbe Got
Out In The Neighborhood Leashless:

Julia F N Altshuler (d000634c@dc.seflin.org)
Subject: 1 step forward, 2 steps back
Date: 2001-01-07 19:28:05 PST

Cubbe got out in the neighborhood leashless for the
first time in roughly 2 years. The first few times were
when we first got her before she'd had any training
and before we got the electric fence to reinforce the
physical one.

It was horrible. She paid us no attention, ignored
clickers and treats and calls. Make that, it was
horrible for us. She had a blast running free and
chasing whatever she wanted.

For us it was 45 minutes of sheer terror as we
tried to catch her.

Luckily there wasn't too much traffic yesterday
morning. It had snowed, and the streets weren't
quite clear yet. Jim finally caught her when she
was preoccupied with her head down a hole.

For 2 years I've been giving her a daily long walk in the
neighborhood. She now walks pretty nicely on a leash.
She gets daily indoor clicker training sessions.

She has perfect recalls in the house. She gets intermittent treats
for those recalls. She gets
plenty of time to run free in the backyard.

Her recalls are less reliable there, but I've been
working on them. I haven't been as good about
introducing the variable reinforcement there, but
I have been good about making sure that she's
never tricked into coming into the house when
she'd rather be outside. I always call her, give
her a treat or praise and let her go again.

So I haven't been a perfect dog trainer, but I don't
think I'm a terrible one. I say that because I'm about
to ask y'all for some help in correcting my mistakes,
and while I don't mind criticism for past mistakes, I
am hoping you'll concentrate on what I should do now.

Yesterday morning Cubbe had had some nice
backyard time. I'd gotten her into the house and
was preparing to leave when she escaped straight through the front
door and right in front of our noses.

She was still wearing the zap collar, but the
battery was low. She gave a small yip when
she went over the wire, and the chase ensued.

We were careful not to scold her once she was caught.

Today I let her out in the backyard with her usual zap collarnow
with a fresh battery. She was waiting by the backdoor to come in
when I went to call her. From her excited behavior, I could tell
that she fully expected to be let out the front door again so she
could have another fun romp in the neighborhood.

I'm so filled with anxiety from yesterday's
escapade that I keep checking for her every
time I open the door.

Later in the afternoon, she was much worse
about coming when called even from the backyard.

My specific questions:

How do I teach recalls when she so clearly knows
when she's in a confined space and when she isn't?

She normally only wears the zap collar when she's in the
backyard because the wire goes around the house and
could zap her when she's near certain windows inside.

If I let her get zapped at the front door with the zap collar,
can I still take the zap collar off and walk her out the front
door with her leash on?

I don't want her to become afraid of the front door.

What's the best emergency procedure if, god
forbid, it should happen again?

Might Cubbe be ready for harsher training techniques? By this I
mean, I've been using clicker and treats for Cubbe because she so
obviously freaked when we
used leash corrections and scoldings when we first
got her.

I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll state
my opinion once and won't defend it further: any
method can be cruel for some dogs.

Even the slightest punishment was wrong for
Cubbe at the beginning, but we've come a long
way since then.

She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.
Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.

Is it time for that?

What might I look for to tell?

Last night we had friends over for dinner with their
3 daughters ages 14, 10 and 7. The girls loved
Cubbe and were having a blast clicker training her.
I was impressed with how quickly they caught on
and how little correction they needed to be consistent
with the clicks and treats.

Cubbe was fine with the children; she always
has been. Just as they were getting ready to
go, the 10 year old went to give Cubbe a hug.

Cubbe must have felt threatened and confined
because she gave a snarl-snap.

I was right there, and without thinking I quickly yelled,
turned Cubbe over on her back, got in the face and let her know
that no snarling is allowed. The girl wasn't
frightened at all, and her parents who were also right
there hadn't realized what had happened. I then asked
the snarlee to rub Cubbe's belly further to reinforce
that Cubbe is the submissive one in that relationship.

I let Cubbe up and all was fine.

I suppose that's another issue, but I bring it up as part of
wondering if Cubbe should be trained with punishments now.

Like I said, I did that without thinking, and now I think it
was the right thing to do. So how do I apply this to dealing with
Cubbe the escapee?

--Lia

===================

From: Julia Altshuler (jaltshuler@comcast.net)
Subject: Cubbe report: Chief
Date: 2003-09-12 21:04:11 PST

Chief if my neighbor Jo's 40# 1 1/2 year old Sheltie.
Jim has been running into them on his morning walks
with Cubbe.  For a week he's been feeding me glowing
reports about how Cubbe is terrific with Chief.

Cubbe has never been particularly wonderful with any
other dog, so terrible in fact that I'd despaired at ever
seeing Cubbe frolic and play with other dogs.

I'd resigned myself to the idea that Cubbe is happy
with her people, her yard, her squirrels, her spot on
the couch, and that makes a pretty good life, one
that doesn't involve the companionship of her own
species.  Jim's reports were encouraging.

Jim convinced Jo to bring Chief over for a playdate.
We put Cubbe on a leash so she could meet Chief
again on neutral territory.  They sniffed as dogs
normally do.

Chief and Cubbe entered the front door.  To my
amazement, all was fine.  Out in the backyard
and off leash, Cubbe didn't pay much attention
to Chief, but there was no trouble even though
she and Chief were close to each other.

Both dogs seemed more interested that their
people were handing out treats (for good behaviors
like SITs).

Jim went into the house for some balls thinking the 2
dogs would like to chase them together.  He did not
consult me about this hare brained scheme.

Jo and I were 5 feet away from the dogs when Cubbe
decided to attack Chief.  She's not an experienced
fighter so I don't know if attack is the right word.  She
was snarfing, making growly noises, jumping on Chief,
had her mouth on Chief's neck (on his back, behind his
ears) and basically not looking friendly, but I think if she'd
wanted to do real damage, she would have, and Chief
was fine, nary a hair out of place.

Naturally with us all right there, we were able to
intervene in seconds.

A second later, it was all over.  Cubbe looked like she'd
like to be friends again, but Chief, while not running away
or anything was obviously spooked and keeping his distance.  Jo
and Chief went home.  (I went with them
for chat and apologies, but that's not part of the Cubbe
story.)

Cubbe has never food or toy guarded with people.

Might she have been guarding the balls Jim brought
out?  Or was it the fact that we let our guard down for
a few seconds and she got scared of Chief when we
all weren't practically on top of her?

Or did we push her too far by leaving her and
Chief together for too many minutes when a
few seconds would have been better for a first try?

Or other theories?

Do we continue trying to find a dog that will put up with
Cubbe?  Or do we give up again and go back to letting
Cubbe live a dogless existence?

--Lia

===================

From: Temperance (whoever@.com)
Subject: Think of my daughter's cat please.
Date: 2004-01-08 10:30:09 PST

This morning 2 year old Velcro was found run over on
the main Road. Who ever hit her knew they had hit her
or an aniaml as it was about 9am. Velcro was a beautiful
cat and at 6 months old came from a guy who mistreated
her and it took a long time to gain her trust.

She was called Velcro because she was so
clingy and would attach herself to my daughters legs.

A shame as we always thought her older cat would go first.
Now we have a sad cat missing it's friend.  I can't get the
rainbow bridge link to work so if somebody can post the
right one I would be pleased.

Thanks.

Temperance

==================

       From: Nancy Verzich (nverzich906@adelphia.net)
       Subject: My cat... Date: 2003-09-28 12:14:37 PST

       Hi everyone, I've never posted here before but have
       been lurking and reading all your posts. The post
       below was posted to another pet NG but no one replied
       and its still bothering me, 3 days later.

       I hope you don't mind me posting it here also...I am
       really sad and just wanted to get this off my chest.
       I am a cat person...always have been...but in the last
       10 yrs or so, it seems like I've sorta become "allergic"
       in a  way to them. If I even touch the fur my eyes get all
       itchy and they burn etc. So, I don't generally hold
       our cat anyway.

       Well, we got this cat about 3 months ago...just a
       plain old tiger striped stray, who was a tiny kitten
       when my 6yr old daughter found her outside. We
       aren't allowed to have pets here, but.......So anyway
       this cat became part of our family.

      I also have a 17 yr old son who is very overweight
      and has NO friends. So this cat became his best
      friend. We didn't allow the cat outside, because
      we didn't really want neighbors to see her and also,
      we didn't want the fleas in here.

       So we kept her inside. But lately, she's been sneaking
       out if my daughter didn't shut the door tight enough or
       if any of us held it open just a second too long.

       She always came back tho...so not that big of a deal.
       Today, my daughter was outside and came back in to
       get  something, and forgot to shut the door all the way.
       Of course, the cat got out. The cat was kinda weird,
       because she just RECENTLY opened up to me,
       personally....she's been loving my kids up ever since
       we got her, but she hasn't really come around to me
       until the last couple of weeks or so.

       So today, I go to the door and call her....she thinks I'm
       playing with her LOL...so she is darting out there all
       around.

       Finally she goes across the street to the neighbors
       yard, and all the way as she's crossing the street,
       I"m worrying about a car coming and hitting her...
       then, she just SAT there on the side of the road
       in the neighbors grass as the cars were passing
       and I was afriad that a car would spook her and
       she would run, but she didn't. Well, she wouldn't
       come in either, I guess she wanted to play for a while.

       About 15 minutes later I went to the door and called
       her again...this time she decided that she was going
       to come to me. She started running across the street,
       and just like in slow motion, I saw a car come down
       the street at the same time. I saw her little body go
       under the car, and I tried to cover my eyes.

       I listened for that HORRIBLE sound that you know is
       coming...but I didn't hear it....the car never even
       slowed down, it just kept going. The cat dashed up
       the street running like a maniac into the field. Every
       10 minutes or so I would go to the door and call her,
       because I knew she was scared...but at the same time
       I"m trying to cook dinner and do a hundred other things.

       So everytime I called and she didn't come, I figured ok,
       I'll try again in a few minutes. When my hubby came
       home, I told him what had happened....he figured that
       she was fine and just scared/hiding, or maybe just out
       playing.

       My son and I a few hours later decided to go and look
       for her....we found her poor little dead body in the
field...
       right where I had seen her enter it at. She didn't have
       any outer "evidence" at all of gettig hit...but it
       obviously happened immediately when she got to the
       field because she was only off of the road maybe 5 feet.

       My son freaked out..she was his best friend in the
       whole world....everyone is blaming everyone else...
       my daughter's fault for leaving the door open...my
       son's fault for not going out to get the cat right when
       she first got out...MY fault for calling to her and
       causing her to run across the street...*sigh*

       I  dunno....

       All I know is that I can't get her
       out of my head......dammit. Nancy

HOWEDY Mag,

Your FREE CAT was last seen at the
corners of 22nd 23rd an 24th streets
and a little bit on theentrance tof the
service road between them in Orlando.

Want me to see if I can RHOWEND him up for you?

The Amazing Kitty Wizard <{) ; ~ )  >

HOWEDY culprit aka kelly aka metta (metta is
culprit aka kelly's aka on the MENTAL PERSONS
news groups so she don't get STIGMATIZED as
a MENTAL CASE on the not so CRAZY persons
news groups),

Your dogs began attacking each other a few
months ago, a couple weeks after you began
SHOCKING them, and they both went to the
emergency HOWEspital for their injuries.

Your dogs then MAULED and MURDERED
your own DEAD KAT on accHOWENT of
TEASED them with IT to train them to their
SHOCK barrier.

Your DEAD KAT has had seven THOWESAND
dollars in veterinary care for STRESS INDUCED
AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE.

Then you FORGOT to put on the dog's SHOCK
COLLARS and that was the END of your DEAD
KAT. REMEMBER, kelly?

Yeah. HOWE abHOWET that time he met
your neighbors when he ESCAPED and
ran into their HOWES for PROTECTION?

Your dogs HURT each other on accHOWENT
of YOU TAUGHT THEM TO, culprit aka kelly
aka metta.

On accHOWENT of you ABUSE your dogs,
culprit aka kelly aka metta.

That alphalpha theory stuff is BUNK,
as you're seein, culprit aka metta aka
kelly.

The so called alphalpha is ALWAYS the
most fearful dog, or IT wouldn't NEED
to PROVE he's alphalpha, just like HOWE
it is with you mental cases, culprit aka kelly
aka metta.

To THREATEN him, just like HOWE YOU TAUGHT HER.

On accHOWENT of he's a COWARD,
AS YOU TAUGHT HIM, culprit aka kelly
aka metta.

While you'd stand there checking your anti psychotic meds.

And you'd let him on accHOWENT of you
couldn't teach them to SHARE, on accHOWENT
of THAT ain't in your human nature, culprit aka
kelly aka metta.

You're a dog abusing mental case.

Well that's just darlin, ain't it. Then you
WONDER HOWE COME they ATTACK
EACH OTHER?

Yeah. FUNNY.

ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR, culprit aka
kelly aka metta, as you well know from
personal EXXXPERIENCE, bein a dog
abusing coward mental case.

FEARFUL, not protective.

On accHOWENT of that's NATURAL for a
male dog to defer to a bitch. But you wouldn't
know nuthing abHOWET common DECENCY.
Even a DOG knows MOORE abHOWET being
DECENT than you do, culprit aka kelly aka metta.

You mean since he stopped attacking her?
Perhaps that DEAD KAT was PROVOKING him?

That so?

"Pretty much?"

Well, he's gettin over his FEAR.

Perhaps she's MOORE comfortable NHOWE
that she don't gotta WORRY abHOWET Manu
ATTACKING her someMOORE.

Right.

No need to. The MOORE FEARFUL dog
does THAT job, culprit aka kelly aka metta.

No. He's MOORE FEARFUL.

He's PROTECTING HISSELF.

Open the door and SEE HOWE
he PROTECTS you when he runs
into your neighbor's HOWES.

BWEEEEAAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

HOWEDY culprit aka kelly aka metta (metta is
culprit aka kelly's aka on the CRAZY PERSONS
news groups so she's not DISCREDITED as bein
NUTSO on the NON CRAZY person's news groups),

Solo's been in treatment at UofPA for three years.

You shock and choke and lock your dogs in
boxes on accHOWENT of they fight NHOWE
on accHOWENT of you choke and shock them.

That's HOWE COME they MURDERED your
seven TH-HOWESAND dollar DEAD KAT.

FOR EXXXAMPLE:

Her kat was beloved, death was her blessing.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard is the only dog trainer
in history who teaches people all over the Whole
Wild World to handle train and rehabilitate ALL
behavior problems NEARLY INSTANTLY for FREE,
withHOWET HURTIN noWON.

Marilyn and professor dermer and perhps Larry,
cause THEY understand a little abHOWET behavior.

You mean the kat you trained your dogs to MURDER.

Well perhaps if you wasn't MENTAL you
wouldn'ta HURT your dogs till they MURDERED
your DEAD kat.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard is QUOTING YOUR
CASE HISSSTORY of TRAINING YOUR DOGS
to MURDER YOUR KAT by FORGETTING to PUT
their SHOCK COLLARS on them when you got
back from the vet after $1500.00 in surgery.

You wanna see amusing?:

"we'll keep the indoor boundary set up, and keep
***testing the dogs with it (hiding behind the railing
and meowing usually does the trick)*** so that they're
familiar with the warning tone.

Manu is already pretty sure he knows what it means,
and whenever Lola trips it, he'll bite her hind leg and
pull her down the steps so the tone stops.  he's such
a big brother, always trying to keep sis out of trouble."

And THEN (Drumroll please, Mr. Maestro...):

                      ****************************

                    Your Attention to center ring...

No. Get it RIGHT. You mean anyHOWE.

                 ****************************

"i dropped of Mo upstairs, as usual, and headed
down to let the dogs out of their crates.

for some reason i'll never know,

*(EVERY WON KNOWS NHOWE.)

*(forgetting to put their SHOCK COLLARS ON THEM)

Mo followed me downstairs.  he never does this.
and i didn't hear him coming.  however, the dogs did.
they ran to investigate, and found a strange smelling,
bloody cat in their house.

needless to say, they attacked him"

Cause culprit aka kelly aka METTA FORGOT
to put their shock collars back on after uncrating
them and she DIDN'T TELL MO THEY WASN'T
WEARIN THEIR SHOCK COLLARS.

Naaah. Leavin you runnin loose is frightenin.

HOWEDY People,

INDEEDY. Like HOWE culprit aka kelly aka
metta's $7,000.00 DEAD kat WAS.

The PUPS would MURDER her just like
HOWE YOU TRAINED THEM to MURDER
YOUR OWN DEAD KAT.

Cause you trained your dogs to MURDER IT.

A WIZE idea.

INDEEDY. LikeWIZE, The Amazing Puppy Wizard
will keep posting YOUR CASE HISTORY to IDENTIFY
EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT you and your pals as
the lying animal abusng mental cases you are.

Here's the IN-complete story (short version) of
HOWE culprit aka kelly aka metta (metta is culprit
aka kelly's aka on the MENTAL PERSONS news
groups) TRAINED HER DOGS to MURDER HER
DEAD KAT:

From: culprit (culprit@flashmail.com)
Subject: Re: Video clip......."Nero" practicing bark alert,
while walking backwards
Date: 2004-06-05 18:53:50 PST

           ----------------------------------

there are different brands of fences, and each
one has a variety of settings, set to the dog's
specific reaction.  Lola's collar is set to give
more juice than Manu's, because she's more
likely to ignore the buzz, whereas Manu wants
nothing to do with it.  i have no idea what brand or
setting Hope's collar was set at.

there's also the fact that Hope has lots of thick
fur and a good fat layer (to keep her warm in the
water) and my dogs are scrawny and nekkid.

so maybe Hope needs a higher setting to work
for her.  it's really hard to say without comparing
the collars directly.

and you're right, if Lola really wants out of the yard,
she'll run through the fence.  the annoyance doesn't
keep her in, which is why she's always supervised
outdoors.

Manu, OTOH, is happy to stay as far from the
fence as he can.  what can i say, he's part eevil
pit bull and part fraidy cat.

-kelly

From: culprit (culprit@flashmail.com)
Subject: we got "the fence"
Date: 2004-02-14 15:48:26 PST

after having the appraisal for the real fencing coming out at
over $11,000, we decided to put up an invisible fence, just
until we can save some cash for the real one.  after we put up
the real fence, the invisible one will probably remain as a
"fail safe" to keep the dogs off the real fence.

yes, i'm aware of most of the cons, i've always been
against them myself, until i talked to a lot of people
who have them, and had the invisible fence trainer
come out to meet the dogs.

i'll only be letting them out when i'm home and can keep a
direct eye on them, and we've discussed it with all of the
neighbors, and they've committed to containing their dogs,
so they won't come into my yard unless invited.

anyway, we had it installed outside today, and started the
indoor part of training.  we decided to put the training fence
on the stairway, since the cats like to hang out up there and
the dogs aren't allowed to go up.

we put up a baby gate just past the invisible barrier,
so that they can't go through it, even if they want to.

i tried the collar on myself before we let the dogs try it,
and while it is uncomfortable, it's not painful, and i'm
comfortable with the dogs wearing it.

we thought Manu would require a higher setting than Lola,
because she's pretty sensitive to correction, and he is a big
meathead who doesn't feel a thing.  this played out with the
first part of training, with Lola turning around and leaving
the steps at the first buzz, and Manu just standing there,
wagging his tail, like he didn't feel a thing.

we upped the setting three more times before Manu
"got it", and then he immediately turned around and
didn't go up the steps at all after that.

the weird thing is that Lola, who was clearly
bothered by the experience, kept trying to go
up to get the cat's area anyway.

this confirmed something i had suspected.

Lola may be more sensitive to correction, but
she also has more "drive", and will put up with
something she dislikes longer than Manu will.

Lola sat on the steps, cycling through the collar's
three 10 second failsafe cycles,  then tried to climb
over the baby gate as though nothing had happened.

we decided to up the correction one setting, with the
theory that she'd find it so unpleasant it would stop
her from climbing the steps, then we'd turn it back
down once she realized she shouldn't be up there.

unfortunately, she never did realize it, so we had
to leave it on the higher setting.

so hers is set lower than Manu's, but she reacts a
lot more strongly to it (scratching at her neck, etc)
than he does.

we'll keep the indoor boundary set up, and keep
testing the dogs with it (hiding behind the railing
and meowing usually does the trick) so that they're
familiar with the warning tone.

Manu is already pretty sure he knows what it means,
and whenever Lola trips it, he'll bite her hind leg and
pull her down the steps so the tone stops.  he's such
a big brother, always trying to keep sis out of trouble.

the outdoor training will begin later in the week, i'll post
updates once we get done with them.

-kelly

From: culprit (culprit@flashmail.com)
Subject: another tragedy
Date: 2004-06-24 14:16:01 PST

today Mo-kitty woke up in a large spot of blood.
his wound had been bleeding all night.  i took
him to the vet, who said that this was not abnormal,
did some blood tests, and sent him home with me.

since he's not allowed to groom himself, he had
quite a bit of blood on him, which i was going to
clean up later.

i dropped of Mo upstairs, as usual, and headed
down to let the dogs out of their crates.

for some reason i'll never know, Mo followed me
downstairs.  he never does this.  and i didn't hear
him coming.  however, the dogs did.

they ran to investigate, and found a strange smelling,
bloody cat in their house.

needless to say, they attacked him.

poor Mo had that stupid cone on his head and
couldn't see to escape.  he was weak and sick
and didn't have a chance.

he didn't survive the trip back to the vets.

he died in my lap on the way there.

i'm in shock right now.

everyone is telling me to get the dogs out of
the house to deal with my grief, but how can
i deal without them?

they didn't understand that what they did is
wrong, they're not people.  they smelled
blood and instinct took over.  i thought about
getting rid of them for about two seconds.

but i can't.  i love them too much.  and i need
them more than ever right now.  poor dogs,
they know something is wrong, and they're all
cuddled up to me.

they don't even know that they caused my suffering.

i'm not angry at them.  just sad at Mo's passing.

after all that work to make him well, for him to die
in this way...   it's like a cosmic joke.  like a bad movie.

i'm emotionally torn.  i'm numb.  and i'm so very tired.

-kelly

----------------------------------

"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.

"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without starting the
whole cruelty thread again so I'll state my opinion once and
won't defend it further: any method can be cruel for some
dogs.

Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but w        e'vecomealongwaysincethen.Shetrusts
us now as I mentioned in a recent post. Point is, she's been
rewarded for coming, but she's never been punished, even in
the mildest way, for not coming.

Is it time for that?

What might I look for to tell?"

"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help.
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusMed.WMV
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusSmall.WMV"

THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and
ASYLUM ESCAPEES.

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!

From: Temperance (whoever@.com)
Subject: Think of my daughter's cat please.
Date: 2004-01-08 10:30:09 PST

This morning 2 year old Velcro was found run over on
the main Road. Who ever hit her knew they had hit her
or an aniaml as it was about 9am. Velcro was a beautiful
cat and at 6 months old came from a guy who mistreated
her and it took a long time to gain her trust.

She was called Velcro because she was so
clingy and would attach herself to my daughters legs.

A shame as we always thought her older cat would go first.
Now we have a sad cat missing it's friend.  I can't get the
rainbow bridge link to work so if somebody can post the
right one I would be pleased.

Thanks.

Temperance

==================

       From: Nancy Verzich (nverzich906@adelphia.net)
       Subject: My cat... Date: 2003-09-28 12:14:37 PST

       Hi everyone, I've never posted here before but have
       been lurking and reading all your posts. The post
       below was posted to another pet NG but no one replied
       and its still bothering me, 3 days later.

       I hope you don't mind me posting it here also...I am
       really sad and just wanted to get this off my chest.
       I am a cat person...always have been...but in the last
       10 yrs or so, it seems like I've sorta become "allergic"
       in a  way to them. If I even touch the fur my eyes get all
       itchy and they burn etc. So, I don't generally hold
       our cat anyway.

       Well, we got this cat about 3 months ago...just a
       plain old tiger striped stray, who was a tiny kitten
       when my 6yr old daughter found her outside. We
       aren't allowed to have pets here, but.......So anyway
       this cat became part of our family.

      I also have a 17 yr old son who is very overweight
      and has NO friends. So this cat became his best
      friend. We didn't allow the cat outside, because
      we didn't really want neighbors to see her and also,
      we didn't want the fleas in here.

       So we kept her inside. But lately, she's been sneaking
       out if my daughter didn't shut the door tight enough or
       if any of us held it open just a second too long.

       She always came back tho...so not that big of a deal.
       Today, my daughter was outside and came back in to
       get  something, and forgot to shut the door all the way.
       Of course, the cat got out. The cat was kinda weird,
       because she just RECENTLY opened up to me,
       personally....she's been loving my kids up ever since
       we got her, but she hasn't really come around to me
       until the last couple of weeks or so.

       So today, I go to the door and call her....she thinks I'm
       playing with her LOL...so she is darting out there all
       around.

       Finally she goes across the street to the neighbors
       yard, and all the way as she's crossing the street,
       I"m worrying about a car coming and hitting her...
       then, she just SAT there on the side of the road
       in the neighbors grass as the cars were passing
       and I was afriad that a car would spook her and
       she would run, but she didn't. Well, she wouldn't
       come in either, I guess she wanted to play for a while.

       About 15 minutes later I went to the door and called
       her again...this time she decided that she was going
       to come to me. She started running across the street,
       and just like in slow motion, I saw a car come down
       the street at the same time. I saw her little body go
       under the car, and I tried to cover my eyes.

       I listened for that HORRIBLE sound that you know is
       coming...but I didn't hear it....the car never even
       slowed down, it just kept going. The cat dashed up
       the street running like a maniac into the field. Every
       10 minutes or so I would go to the door and call her,
       because I knew she was scared...but at the same time
       I"m trying to cook dinner and do a hundred other things.

       So everytime I called and she didn't come, I figured ok,
       I'll try again in a few minutes. When my hubby came
       home, I told him what had happened....he figured that
       she was fine and just scared/hiding, or maybe just out
       playing.

       My son and I a few hours later decided to go and look
       for her....we found her poor little dead body in the
field...
       right where I had seen her enter it at. She didn't have
       any outer "evidence" at all of gettig hit...but it
       obviously happened immediately when she got to the
       field because she was only off of the road maybe 5 feet.

       My son freaked out..she was his best friend in the
       whole world....everyone is blaming everyone else...
       my daughter's fault for leaving the door open...my
       son's fault for not going out to get the cat right when
       she first got out...MY fault for calling to her and
       causing her to run across the street...*sigh*

       I  dunno....

       All I know is that I can't get her
       out of my head......dammit. Nancy

Well folksies, everyWON should thank ed w of
PETLOSS DOT COIN and professor SCRUFF
SHAKE dermer and company for convincing
folks like Nancy that kats and dogs can't be
trained NEARLY INSTANTLY withHOWET
HURTIN them as The Amazing Puppy Wizard
teaches HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
all over the Whole Wild World REPORT RIGHT HERE.

You know, the WONS YOU CALL LIARS and
FORGERIES by The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~  )  >

Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI, marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
"NO!" into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation," dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy,  "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

       The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{}TPW ; ~  }   >

P.S.  Contacting Dr. P:

Please note that due to the large number of
requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
personal advice on problems related to dog
training and behavior.

In order for me to give such advice we would
have to "talk" about the problem at length.

That is, I would need detailed information about
the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
and the situation in which the problem occurs.

Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
I cannot afford to give away for free.

If you wish such advice, please see the information
I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
newsgroup discussions.

P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

               YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!

             Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
             Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
                                BUSINESS.

       "If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
                      and you will know each other.
        If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
               and what you do not know you will fear.

                      What one fears, one destroys."
                        &