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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / February 2005Horrible Tasteless TV Show
OK, what's new right? "Still Standing" showed an episode about the wife's sister's cat dying. None of the characters showed even a modicum of sympathy, but made fun of the woman for grieving and made fun of the cat. I've never seen a show about a dog dying that was made fun of, but cats seem to be a different story. I think this is horrible, not only does it make it OK to make fun of a person grieving for a cat, but it gives the impression that cats are not important and the death of a beloved cat should be the source of humor, not grief. Not that I ever watch this show (it was on in the background since everyone was too busy to turn off the TV), but from now on I'll make a point of not watching even a second of this travesty. Here's the show's web site - I'm trying to find somewhere to write to complain. http://www.cbs.com/primetime/still_standing/ Hugs, CatNipped OK, there's a "feedback" button on the bottom of that page and I just submitted a complaint. The episode was called "Still Looking for Love". Hugs, CatNipped > OK, what's new right? > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > CatNipped > OK, there's a "feedback" button on the bottom of that page and I just > submitted a complaint. The episode was called "Still Looking for Love". Thanks for pointing that out, I've written them a note complaining about their lack of compassion.  SignatureVictor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com > OK, what's new right? > > "Still Standing" showed an episode about the wife's sister's cat > dying. None of the characters showed even a modicum of sympathy, but > made fun of the woman for grieving and made fun of the cat. I normally like that show when I manage to catch an episode of it (I didn't tonight, and I'm glad I didn't). There is nothing funny about any pet dying or anyone grieving over such a loss. Sometimes I think the writers just don't have a clue what to write so they do something stupid. Jill > OK, what's new right? > > "Still Standing" showed an episode about the wife's sister's cat dying. The cat was dressed in a mouse suit for Halloween, saw itself in the mirror and killed itself leaping at the mirror trying to eat the big mouse. Think a cat might really do that? > > OK, what's new right? > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > mirror and killed itself leaping at the mirror trying to eat the big mouse. > Think a cat might really do that? Yes, they made the death ridiculous, and *yes* I *know* it's just a TV show - but do *you* really think it's OK to show insensitive behavior towards someone who is grieving about a lost pet? Do you think that's something we should teach our kids is OK to do? There are an infinite number of other ways for the writers to have made the sister look ridiculous, but making her look ridiculous because she is grieving about a lost pet should not have been one of them. Hugs, CatNipped >>> OK, what's new right? >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> mirror and killed itself leaping at the mirror trying to eat the big >> mouse. Think a cat might really do that? There are an infinite > number of other ways for the writers to have made the sister look > ridiculous (snippage) They always make the sister look ridiculous, and ridicule her for not having or keeping a boyfriend or for not being married, not having kids, etc. As a middle aged single woman, I don't really understand how belittling a person is funny. BTW, the man who plays the husband is a Brit who pulls off sounding like an American very well... first time I saw him on an interview I just about fell over upon hearing his "real" voice. Jill > They always make the sister look ridiculous, and ridicule her for > not having or keeping a boyfriend or for not being married, not having kids, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Jill Sounds like a real gem of a show. As for actors, I was truly disappointed when I first heard an interview with the actor who plays Spike on Buffy. He's not British at all. It totally ruined it for me =/ Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* > They always make the sister look ridiculous, and ridicule her for not having > or keeping a boyfriend or for not being married, not having kids, etc. As a > middle aged single woman, I don't really understand how belittling a person > is funny. The times I have seen the show I think *they* are the ones that look ridiculous--although, the sister really does act like a twit. A man is the be-all and end-all, for one thing. >BTW, the man who plays the husband is a Brit who pulls off > sounding like an American very well... first time I saw him on an interview > I just about fell over upon hearing his "real" voice. He's a good actor, as is the little redhead and the "egghead" son. To me the show is kind of "married-with-children" for a younger generation. > > They always make the sister look ridiculous, and ridicule her for not > having [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > "egghead" son. To me the show is kind of "married-with-children" > for a younger generation. Oh, see, I didn't get that. This is the first time I caught the show, sort of in the background just because nobody had bothered to turn off the TV after the news. I must say though, "Married With Children" made *sure* you knew this was an over-the-top, ridiculous farce - obviously nothing at all like real life - right from the opening credits. "Still Standing" is normal enough looking that you think this is a family show about a "real" family. The creators, producers, and writers are *way* off base here. I find nothing at all funny about the "values", or lack thereof, that they're portraying. What bothers me is that shows like this sort of wriggle their way into our society's subconscious to make us become inured to this type of behavior. This is being done to not just our children - I believe parents should be the guardians of a child's TV choices and the ones who teach their children values rather than relying on TV to do that (even though we know that far too many parents don't) - but to adults who become "used to" and even start emulating this sort of insensitivity and bigoted behavior. Ah well, just a prime example of why I don't watch but a couple of hours of TV a week! Hugs, CatNipped >> > They always make the sister look ridiculous, and ridicule her for not >> having [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > CatNipped Maybe to make you feel better. Since you don't normally watch the show. And sadly I do. There has always been a running gag with the sister's over the top behavior with her cat. At the beginning of this particular show, she comes in all upset. Said she and the cat were trying on the matching Halloween costumes she had made for them. That she had decided to dress as a cat and to dress her cat up as a mouse. But that when he saw himself in a mirror dressed as a mouse, he attacked and killed himself. Presumably by running into the mirror. Now, I don't want to get into what is or isn't funny. Not qualified. But for those who do watch it, this show is as over the top as Married With Children. Jo > What bothers me is that shows like this sort of wriggle their way into our > society's subconscious to make us become inured to this type of behavior. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > too many parents don't) - but to adults who become "used to" and even start > emulating this sort of insensitivity and bigoted behavior. When I was a teenager, my dad repeatedly referred to the conspiracy of making dads look like idiots on TV. I don't think it was a conspiracy, but he was probably right; there was a definite trend going on. Of course, sometimes dads do act like idiots, as do we all =P > Ah well, just a prime example of why I don't watch but a couple of hours of > TV a week! Yupyup. I don't watch much TV; I mostly watch it if I'm doing dishes, because then I'm facing the TV. Or if I'm sick. Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* > > What bothers me is that shows like this sort of wriggle their way into our > > society's subconscious to make us become inured to this type of behavior. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > dads look like idiots on TV. I don't think it was a conspiracy, but he was > probably right; there was a definite trend going on. There's also a trend in Disney movies to kill off the mother and have her replaced with a really evil stepmother. It's weird if you ask me. -- Britta Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that's covered in fur! Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album >There's also a trend in Disney movies to kill off the mother and have >her replaced with a really evil stepmother. It's weird if you ask me. Well, that is a traditional plot element in a lot of fairy tales. Think _Snow White_ or _Cinderella_. SignatureJohn F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria On 2005-01-28, John F Eldredge penned: >>There's also a trend in Disney movies to kill off the mother and have >>her replaced with a really evil stepmother. It's weird if you ask me. > > Well, that is a traditional plot element in a lot of fairy tales. > Think _Snow White_ or _Cinderella_. Yeah. I was gonna say. Disney is much more upbeat than old-time fairy tales. If you want to have trouble sleeping, curl up with a book of the original Grimm's Fairytales (which, as I understand it, weren't intended for children at all). Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* > There's also a trend in Disney movies to kill off the mother and have > her replaced with a really evil stepmother. It's weird if you ask me. > -- Doesn't it make you wonder about the dad's impaired judgment? They are married to this wonderful woman and then she gets bumped off, and the dude marries some old witch who not only acts like one, but looks like one too. It makes me wonder what the old man did to get that kind of karma. Pam S. > > He's a good actor, as is the little redhead and the > > "egghead" son. To me the show is kind of "married-with-children" [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > What bothers me is that shows like this sort of wriggle their way into our > society's subconscious to make us become inured to this type of behavior. Thisis a really astute observation. > This is being done to not just our children - I believe parents should be > the guardians of a child's TV choices and the ones who teach their children > values rather than relying on TV to do that (even though we know that far > too many parents don't) - but to adults who become "used to" and even start > emulating this sort of insensitivity and bigoted behavior. I agree, especially since kids don't necessarily get sarcasm and irony. > Ah well, just a prime example of why I don't watch but a couple of hours of > TV a week! They take all the good one's off and keep coming up with new ones involving closeups of mutilated bodies. Bleah. I still miss the CBS show called "The Guardian." >>> He's a good actor, as is the little redhead and the >>> "egghead" son. >> Children" made *sure* you knew this was an over-the-top, ridiculous >> farce - obviously nothing at all like real life (snippety) > They take all the good one's off and keep coming > up with new ones involving closeups of mutilated bodies. Exactly how many CSI's do we need on television in a week?! > Bleah. I still miss the CBS show called "The Guardian." I caught that show a couple of times and found it to be interesting. But then, I'm a Dabney Coleman fan ;) Jill > Exactly how many CSI's do we need on television in a week?! Yep. > > Bleah. I still miss the CBS show called "The Guardian." > > I caught that show a couple of times and found it to be interesting. But > then, I'm a Dabney Coleman fan ;) I love Dabney Coleman! But also, I thought he young Australian who played Nick was rather tasty. :) Another great show canceled: The District with Craig T. Nelson. One that made it: Judging Amy. I will never forget the episode where Maxine's dog died. Now they treated the topic with respect. >> Exactly how many CSI's do we need on television in a week?! > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I love Dabney Coleman! But also, I thought he young > Australian who played Nick was rather tasty. :) Oh he was cute, no doubt. But too young for me ;) > Another great show canceled: The District with > Craig T. Nelson. I've always liked him, too. > One that made it: Judging Amy. I will never forget the > episode where Maxine's dog died. Now they treated > the topic with respect. I like that show, too. I like Tyne Daly a lot and Maxine is quite the character. I remember that episode; they sure did handle it the right way. Jill > Another great show canceled: The District with > Craig T. Nelson. I'll merely say that was NOT a popular show in the actual District of Columbia. I didn't watch it many times, but my reaction was "are we talking about the same city?" It was quite a while ago and a series that didn't last long -- while Law & Order often can get away with a tragic or ambiguous ending, the TV audience of the time wasn't ready for it. Nevertheless, he played the lead, an Air Force experimental test pilot, in the series "Call to Glory". Fantastic drama. >> They take all the good one's off and keep coming up with new ones involving >> closeups of mutilated bodies. > > Exactly how many CSI's do we need on television in a week?! I keep insisting that eventually, we will have a single channel for each show and its spinoffs. That being said, for no apparent reason I am addicted to Law & Order: SVU. I don't go out of my way to watch it, but if it's on, I can't turn it off. It's like watching a car crash, I guess. Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* >>>They take all the good one's off and keep coming up with new ones involving >>>closeups of mutilated bodies. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > don't go out of my way to watch it, but if it's on, I can't turn it off. It's > like watching a car crash, I guess. I love L&O SVU, It is different than L&O, so is L&O Criminal Intent. However I have a hard time with the "other" CSI programs, especially CSI Miami. I really think they are gorier, if possible, than the original. Pam S. >>>> They take all the good one's off and keep coming up with new ones involving >>>> closeups of mutilated bodies. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Pam S. Ok, I have to ask. Does anyone watch Boston Legal? I've just seen the last couple of episodes but, gad, it IS funny. It just seems to have a great cast. > Ok, I have to ask. Does anyone watch Boston Legal? I've just seen the last > couple of episodes but, gad, it IS funny. It just seems to have a great > cast. It's on at the same time as "Crossing Jordan." I can't miss Jordan. Is Boston Public as quirky as Due South was? I loved the strange and offbeat logic for some of the events in that show. OK, Paul Gross as eye candy didn't hurt either. Pam S. > > Ok, I have to ask. Does anyone watch Boston Legal? I've just seen the > > last [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Pam S. Boston Public, sadly, was cancelled; it's a different show than Boston Legal. I thought Boston Public was excellent. > > > Ok, I have to ask. Does anyone watch Boston Legal? I've just seen the > > > last [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Boston Public, sadly, was cancelled; it's a different show than Boston > Legal. I thought Boston Public was excellent. Oh, and Pam, I laughed out loud THREE times during the last episode of Boston Legal and that is really rare for me. > > > Ok, I have to ask. Does anyone watch Boston Legal? I've just seen the > > > last [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Boston Public, sadly, was cancelled; it's a different show than Boston > Legal. I thought Boston Public was excellent. Boston Public has James Spader, William Shatner, Rene Auberjenois, Candice Bergan and now Betty White. Honest, it is just kind of a hoot. James Spader and William Shatner (and now Candice Bergan) have some wicked chemistry between them. >> > > Ok, I have to ask. Does anyone watch Boston Legal? I've just seen the >> > > last [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >and William Shatner (and now Candice Bergan) have some wicked chemistry >between them. James Spader and Auberjonois are two of the best character actors around. Spader reminds me a bit of Christopher Walken-- both were rather on the pretty side as young men, so they seem to have decided the thing to do was be as weird as possible. ;) Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com > >> > > Ok, I have to ask. Does anyone watch Boston Legal? I've just seen the > >> > > last [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > rather on the pretty side as young men, so they seem to have decided > the thing to do was be as weird as possible. ;) Egad. I meant Boston Legal. Yeesh. Why must they name these things so closely. Well, what is really interesting is that James Spader is SO similiar to the Shatner character. Like a younger version and its almost creepy. And yet there is this real sincerity to both of their characters. And Candace Bergan OMG what a hoot! She just plays perfectly off that cast. Anyhow, I was pleasantly surprised with the two episodes I saw. > Boston Public, sadly, was cancelled; it's a different show than Boston > Legal. I thought Boston Public was excellent. If Boston Public was the show about the schools, it should have never been done. It was not only so full of inaccuracies, but it promoted teachers as performing illegal activities on a daily basis. I suffered through two episodes then pleased the family by announcing that I never wanted to see it ever again. They were tired of me yelling at the screen. Pam S. >> Ok, I have to ask. Does anyone watch Boston Legal? I've just seen the >> last [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Pam S. You guys had Due South down there? I thought it was a Canadian show. And yes, Paul Gross is a hottie, did you know he has an album out? Kristy > You guys had Due South down there? I thought it was a Canadian show. > And yes, Paul Gross is a hottie, did you know he has an album out? > > Kristy Well, we do have Chicago (to our shame;-)) I have both of the CDs made from the music used in Due South. Paul Gross has a really good voice to go with that pretty exterior. I was wondering what he was up to lately. Pam S. >> It's on at the same time as "Crossing Jordan." I can't miss Jordan. >> Is Boston Public as quirky as Due South was? I loved the strange and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > You guys had Due South down there? I thought it was a Canadian show. > And yes, Paul Gross is a hottie, did you know he has an album out? Heh, we even had Due South in Finland. :o) SignatureMarina, Frank and Nikki marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki >>>>They take all the good one's off and keep coming up with new ones >>>>involving [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Pam S. I love the cast on SVU MARISKA HARGITAY is so good. And I can see her parents in her face. Jo >>>>They take all the good one's off and keep coming up with new ones involving >>>>closeups of mutilated bodies. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >I love L&O SVU, It is different than L&O, so is L&O Criminal Intent. I love all the L&O, but I miss Jerry Orbach a lot. They have always made cast changes very easily, but this one is just too much for me. I enjoy SVU, but I love CI. How could you not love Vincent D'Onofrio's extra-weird detective, and his snotty little sidekick? She's like a tiny female Lennie Briscoe. ;) >However I have a hard time with the "other" CSI programs, especially CSI >Miami. I really think they are gorier, if possible, than the original. > >Pam S. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com > >>>>They take all the good one's off and keep coming up with new ones > >>>>involving [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I love all the L&O, but I miss Jerry Orbach a lot. They have always > made cast changes very easily, but this one is just too much for me. I understand that there are eight episodes of the new L&O spinoff in which he acts. > I enjoy SVU, but I love CI. How could you not love Vincent > D'Onofrio's extra-weird detective, and his snotty little sidekick? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh > My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com >>>>>> They take all the good one's off and keep coming up with new ones >>>>>> involving [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > I understand that there are eight episodes of the new L&O spinoff in > which he acts. They would have to be "old" new episodes since Orbachs died in December. Jill >> I enjoy SVU, but I love CI. How could you not love Vincent >> D'Onofrio's extra-weird detective, and his snotty little sidekick? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh >> My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com >>>>>>> They take all the good one's off and keep coming up with new ones >>>>>>> involving [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >Jill No, no, I know what he means. Orbach filmed eight episodes of the yet unseen new spinoff, "L&O: Trial by Jury." That's supposed to start later this year, I believe. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com > >>>>>> They take all the good one's off and keep coming up with new ones > >>>>>> involving [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > > They would have to be "old" new episodes since Orbachs died in December. Correct. According to the Washington Post obituary, he did these last fall. >>>>> They take all the good one's off and keep coming up with new ones >>>>> involving closeups of mutilated bodies. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > D'Onofrio's extra-weird detective, and his snotty little sidekick? > She's like a tiny female Lennie Briscoe. ;) John and I have had several discussions about D'Onofrio's character (and characteristics). It's so quirky the way he cocks his head or stares at a suspect from a leaning over side-view, almost in their face but not quite. I have never seen him in anything else but John said he has and he (D'Onofrio) apparently created these mannerisms just for this character. Good to see someone step out of a stereotypical box when acting in different things :) Jill >> However I have a hard time with the "other" CSI programs, especially >> CSI [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh > My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com >>>>>> They take all the good one's off and keep coming up with new ones >>>>>> involving closeups of mutilated bodies. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >Good to see someone step out of a stereotypical box when acting in different >things :) He is six-five, and I imagine a real cop doing that would be extremely intimidating. D'Onofrio has been in several movies-- "Full Metal Jacket" and "Household Saints" were two serious ones-- but he has usually played someone unhinged, or very, very bad-- or both. For me, his most memorable movie role was "The Bug" in "Men in Black." Yes, that was him. ;) Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com >>> I enjoy SVU, but I love CI. How could you not love Vincent >>> D'Onofrio's extra-weird detective, and his snotty little sidekick? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > He is six-five, and I imagine a real cop doing that would be extremely > intimidating. Yes, but he usually speaks very softly (and carries a big stick LOL) > D'Onofrio has been in several movies-- "Full Metal Jacket" and > "Household Saints" were two serious ones-- but he has usually played > someone unhinged, or very, very bad-- or both. For me, his most > memorable movie role was "The Bug" in "Men in Black." Yes, that was > him. ;) Never saw any of those films. John apparently did :) BTW, John is a foot taller than I am. I've seen his temper but never, ever, directed towards me. He's a peaceful person who walks away unless you just insist on getting in his face for no reason. I have a story about us encountering a rude driver while on our trips. In one case he actually pulled off the freeway to a gas station to look up a phone number and report a guy who was driving a company truck and being a total jerk. John was so angry he was shaking. He was polite but firm when he was transferred to the manager and explained the situation. The idiot was on our tail (John drives a 22 foot box van with his paintings and as DanM can tell you, you can't just stop on a dime in a big truck). The guy was practically kissing our a** when we were already doing 75 MPH in a 65 zone. So John, getting upset, moved to the next right lane to let him pass. The man whipped around us (driving a garbage truck, no less) and then cut us off. Then dude moved over to the far right lane. Then dude dropped back behind us again, flashed his lights, then pulled up alongside MY side of the truck (I think this is what *really* ticked John off) and flipped me the bird. The man John spoke with on the phone was calling the dispatcher to find out which drivers running routes in that particular locale (John gave them highway sign and exit sign information) to have the dispatcher call him back to base. I hope that a**hole lost his job. His behavior was completely uncalled for. Once John got that out of his system, we continued on our drive and had a good time :) Jill > Theresa > Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh > My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com > Once John got that out of his system, we continued on our drive and had a > good time :) Why do I have a suspicion that John would appreciate one Army motto: "There is no problem that will not yield to a sufficient quantity of skillfully applied high explosives." >> Once John got that out of his system, we continued on our drive and had a >> good time :) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "There is no problem that will not yield to a sufficient > quantity of skillfully applied high explosives." Never heard that one before. But daddy was in the army engineers and I'm sure it was something he always believed/ Jo <snip> > I have a story about us encountering a rude driver while on our > trips. In one case he actually pulled off the freeway to a gas [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Jill A similar thing happened to me once, and the driver did lose his job. I was told by his boss they normally sack people if they get three complaints, this driver had been given another chance. Mine was the fourth complaint and he was sacked straight away. SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat. > <snip> >> (driving a garbage truck, no less) and then cut us off. Then dude [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > complaints, this driver had been given another chance. Mine was the > fourth complaint and he was sacked straight away. I'm glad! John and I will never know the outcome. We were on the road somewhere between Illinois and Texas - I think we were in Missouri when this happened but I can't recall - we were on the road (with stops only to sleep and eat) for 4 days. Could have been anywhere :) Jill > I love all the L&O, but I miss Jerry Orbach a lot. They have always > made cast changes very easily, but this one is just too much for me. > > I enjoy SVU, but I love CI. How could you not love Vincent > D'Onofrio's extra-weird detective, and his snotty little sidekick? > She's like a tiny female Lennie Briscoe. ;) I miss Jerry too. I was really looking forward to the new L&O show because he would be in it. I also miss Chris Noth. The two of them together was something else. CI is really quirky, isn't it. The D'Onofrio's stream of conscious dialogue, and the way he knows so much about so many different topics amazes me. You're right about his partner, she is as mouthy as Lennie Briscoe, with that screw you attitude. Pam S. > >>>They take all the good one's off and keep coming up with new ones > >>>involving [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > However I have a hard time with the "other" CSI programs, especially CSI > Miami. I really think they are gorier, if possible, than the original. From those who know me, I have a certain immunity to gore. Nevertheless, I am a devotee of the Law & Order shows (other than Criminal Intent). I've never known a lawyer, with whom I've discussed them, to say other than they are legally fascinating. CSI always struck me as too implausible, with the forensics people doing the jobs of an assortment of other police. The science tended to be, for me, of the *yawn* variety. That is, however, until I watched NBC's apparent answer to CSI, "Medical Investigations". My psychologist girlfriend has forbidden me to watch it, in that she thinks it's dangerous for my blood pressure. To put it mildly, these people are as much real epidemiologists as Calista Flockhart is an all-pro NFL offensive lineman. The sad thing is that they screwed up the real organization that inspired it, the Epidemiological Intelligence Service of the Centers for Disease Control (not NIH, as the show says). One could take Laurie Garrett's _The Coming Plagues_ and have real-world material that would make fantastic plots. One of the ironies is that Law & Order, especially SVU, use more real epidemiological hunts for patterns than do these alleged epidemiologists. > CSI always struck me as too implausible, with the forensics people doing > the jobs of an assortment of other police. The science tended to be, for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > mildly, these people are as much real epidemiologists as Calista > Flockhart is an all-pro NFL offensive lineman. Have you ever noticed that they never get your career field correct? JAG and NCIS may be accurate for the navy, but way off base for the army. I suspect that they're way off base for the Navy and Marines as well. I think it was Boston Public who had a public high school (any one who lives in the district can go there, for you civilized people) populated by a bunch of crazed sex fiends, inappropriate behavior, un staffed classrooms, and so forth. I was insulted on behalf of educators every where. I'm not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but even I know that the CDC is in charge of infectious disease investigations. Not only that, but the quasi professionalism of the "investigators" makes me want to barf. Needless to say, it is not one of the more popular shows watched at our house. Pam S. disappointed by Medical Investigations as it had potential > Have you ever noticed that they never get your career field correct? LOL! It's a good thing the work of a translator doesn't make for good TV. ;o) I get upset enough about the inaccuracies about diabetes that come up in various different shows. SignatureMarina, Frank and Nikki marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki Marina <frankiennikki@yahoo.co.uk> had some very interesting things to say about Re: Horrible Tasteless TV Show: >> Have you ever noticed that they never get your career field correct? >LOL! It's a good thing the work of a translator doesn't make for good >TV. ;o) I get upset enough about the inaccuracies about diabetes that >come up in various different shows. One episode of CSI drastically boosted the temperature in alt.support.diabetes a while back. Hang on while I battle Google's "upgrade" to find the thread. Mrreh! Can't find it. Signature"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding. :-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL > Marina <frankiennikki@yahoo.co.uk> had some very interesting things to > say about Re: Horrible Tasteless TV Show: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Mrreh! Can't find it. I think I know which one you mean. It claimed that the invesigators found out a dead guy had had diabetes, because he had a needle prick *on his thigh bone*!!!! ROFL! A person would literally have to be skin and bones in order for the needle to penetrate that far. There was other stuff too, but I seem to have blocked it out. :oP SignatureMarina, Frank and Nikki marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki Marina <frankiennikki@yahoo.co.uk> had some very interesting things to say about Re: Horrible Tasteless TV Show: >> One episode of CSI drastically boosted the temperature in >> alt.support.diabetes a while back. Hang on while I battle Google's [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >bones in order for the needle to penetrate that far. There was other >stuff too, but I seem to have blocked it out. :oP Nope, in this one the killer was diabetic, and they got the symptoms of what was happening [think he was running way too high] completely wrong. Signature"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding. :-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL > > CSI always struck me as too implausible, with the forensics people > > doing [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > barf. Needless to say, it is not one of the more popular shows watched > at our house. It was mildly redeeming when the public relations person trying to learn epidemiology came running in to announce "I found green glop!" With all due respect, I agree that many of the activities on "Boston Public" were inappropriate, but, given they were artificial, served as a backdrop to have frequent and competent dramatic tension. It's one thing when "Star Trek" babbles about diverting the flux capacitor to the deflector array, in a future where they have apparently lost the technologies of seat belts, terminals that don't explode, circuit breakers in general, etc. In "Medical Investigation", not only were they wrong on substantive detail, the acting isn't very good. There always seemed to be a guarantee that the team chief would call for an instant airlift of a drug that was inappropriate to treat the condition. Oddly, the clinical presentations were consistent with the diseases -- I usually could diagnose within 10 or 15 minutes, while the cast would fumble around for the next half hour. > thing when "Star Trek" babbles about diverting the flux capacitor to > the deflector array, in a future where they have apparently lost the > technologies of seat belts But then they wouldn't have gotten to pretend the ship was tilting! LOL , terminals that don't explode, circuit > breakers in general, etc. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > could diagnose within 10 or 15 minutes, while the cast would fumble > around for the next half hour. What do you think of this new medical show (if you have seen it) 'House'? The team spends an hour discussing and trying different treatments on weirdly obscure (sorry, can't happen) diseases and conditions. Dr. House finally makes an appearance and the patient and his/her family have no idea who this dude is. Not only that, he's constantly popping pain pills for his leg (he uses a cane). And, the times I've been in the hospital I didn't have 4-5 attending physicians. It's ridiculous. Jill >> thing when "Star Trek" babbles about diverting the flux capacitor to >> the deflector array, in a future where they have apparently lost the >> technologies of seat belts > >But then they wouldn't have gotten to pretend the ship was tilting! LOL At a science fiction convention, I once saw the blooper reel from the original Star Trek series. One out-take had one of those scenes where all of the bridge crew topple out of their chairs, in order to suggest that the ship has just been jolted hard. Unfortunately, one actor got his left and right confused, and thus fell in the opposite direction to everyone else! Another of my favorite out-takes was one where Kirk and Spock were striding towards the elevator doors. The show was operating on too low a budget to have actual hydraulic doors, so the doors were operated by stage crew pulling on ropes. Unfortunately, whomever was operating the ropes missed their cue, and William Shatner walked right into the door, which was supposed to be open by the time he reached it. He turned around, rubbing his nose and grinning. >>> thing when "Star Trek" babbles about diverting the flux capacitor to >>> the deflector array, in a future where they have apparently lost the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > into the door, which was supposed to be open by the time he reached > it. He turned around, rubbing his nose and grinning. I saw that reel! James Doohan came to speak at a local college when I was a pre-teen and I made my sister drag me to it. His talk was very interesting and then he showed the blooper reel. I love those. >>>> thing when "Star Trek" babbles about diverting the flux capacitor >>>> to the deflector array, in a future where they have apparently [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > was a pre-teen and I made my sister drag me to it. His talk was very > interesting and then he showed the blooper reel. I love those. James Doohan surprised everyone by becoming a father at age 80. He always could make those engines go! Jill > >>> thing when "Star Trek" babbles about diverting the flux capacitor to > >>> the deflector array, in a future where they have apparently lost the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > pre-teen and I made my sister drag me to it. His talk was very interesting > and then he showed the blooper reel. I love those. Me too - He came to my college. He really is a class act. I wonder if I still have a copy of that tape. A group of us travel down to SUNY O a year or so later when George Takai was speaking there. Signature-Kim owned by Egbert, Niobe, Sekhar and Rocket take the cat out before you reply There are many intelligent species in the universe. They are all owned by cats. - Anonymous http://photos.yahoo.com/sir_eg_of_bert http://picturetrail.com/ownedbycats >> >>> thing when "Star Trek" babbles about diverting the flux capacitor to >> >>> the deflector array, in a future where they have apparently lost the [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >still have a copy of that tape. A group of us travel down to SUNY O a year >or so later when George Takai was speaking there. Spare a thought, and some purrs for dear old Jimmy Doohan, as he is now suffering from Alzheimer's. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com > >> >>> thing when "Star Trek" babbles about diverting the flux capacitor to > >> >>> the deflector array, in a future where they have apparently lost the [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Spare a thought, and some purrs for dear old Jimmy Doohan, as he is > now suffering from Alzheimer's. Yes, I know he is not doing too well. It's really a cursed disease. > >> thing when "Star Trek" babbles about diverting the flux capacitor to > >> the deflector array, in a future where they have apparently lost the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > into the door, which was supposed to be open by the time he reached > it. He turned around, rubbing his nose and grinning. There was another blooper when that happened to Spock. It's rough to see a Vulcan whimpering, his hands tight to his nose. >>>> thing when "Star Trek" babbles about diverting the flux capacitor >>>> to the deflector array, in a future where they have apparently [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > There was another blooper when that happened to Spock. It's rough to > see a Vulcan whimpering, his hands tight to his nose. Or the one where they did an entire scene where Leonard Nimoy (Spock) had a lollipop??? A Vulcan with a sucker???? For shame, Mr. Cpock, no reliving your childhood... ;) --? The ONE and ONLY lefthanded-pathetic-paranoid-psychotic-sarcastic-wiseass-ditzy former-blonde in Bloomington! (And proud of it, too)? email me at nalee1964 (at) insightbb (dot) com http://community.webshots.com/user/mgcmdjeep >>>>> thing when "Star Trek" babbles about diverting the flux capacitor >>>>> to the deflector array, in a future where they have apparently [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > nalee1964 (at) insightbb (dot) com > http://community.webshots.com/user/mgcmdjeep Did you ever see those 'In Search Of' films with Leonard Nimoy? We used to cheer when we walked into class in High School and there was an old projector set up. (Most times one of us students would have to stop the darned thing from flapping around because the teacher hadn't threaded it correctly.) We loved it when it was an 'In Search Of' with Leonard Nimoy. Jill > What do you think of this new medical show (if you have seen it) > 'House'? The team spends an hour discussing and trying different [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > uses a cane). And, the times I've been in the hospital I didn't > have 4-5 attending physicians. It's ridiculous. I don't get that show, but find it entertaining. Last week was just wierd how they found out clothes were making kids sick. How often does that happen in real life? I did think the episode about virus's and unvaccinated moms was interesting... SignatureCheryl > > thing when "Star Trek" babbles about diverting the flux capacitor to > > the deflector array, in a future where they have apparently lost the [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > leg (he uses a cane). And, the times I've been in the hospital I didn't > have 4-5 attending physicians. It's ridiculous. Haven't seen it. Depends on how you mean "attending" -- both for myself and others, I've encountered situations where many specialties were involved. At one point, my ex and I went through the list of primary specialty boards, and, IIRC, we had just missed seeing someone in aerospace medicine and one or two others. We cheated a little -- we had no furless children, but her allergist was dual-boarded in pediatrics. > What do you think of this new medical show (if you have seen it) > 'House'? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > didn't > > have 4-5 attending physicians. It's ridiculous. I watched it tonight. There was some good acting here and there, but the medicine made little sense. I remember one exchange where one of the junior doctors suggested a vasculitis, and House said no, it was Wegener's granulomatosis. But--Wegener's is a spscific type of the class of vasculitis diseases. Yes, in a teaching hospital, you very well may have teams of doctors, but there is only one that has formal responsibility as the primary physician. Some people use "attending" as interchangeable with the primary, but in many hospitals, "attending" means a fully certified physician, while a senior resident may the primary physician. Even with a DNR order, you do NOT turn off the respirator on a conscious patient, whom you believe to be respirator dependent, without significant sedation. Yes, I know of a few cases where a knowledgeable patient requested no terminal sedation, but those were extremely special cases. Turning off a ventilator on an aware patient means a very horrible death. Unless there was an extremely specific informed consent, witnessed patient request, and probably review by the hospital ethics committee, that would be malpractice if not felony. With tonight's episode, some of the test results were vague enough that I couldn't figure out what they were describing. The type of the pneumonia remained vague, and I couldn't understand why they wanted IVIG for that. For some of the other diagnoses, the treatment is the same. I don't think I'll watch it again. > I love L&O SVU,/// Me too, of course, I suspect in *my* case it's more of a fixation with Chris Maloni ;o) Helen M >>>> OK, what's new right? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Jill He was in "The Full Monty." Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com >>>>>OK, what's new right? >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh > My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com Ok, what i'm finding weird, is that the biopics of the oldest two children look like they're about 12 and 13 yrs old, but when I go to IMDB and look the two people up, they're 15 and 17. How on earth do they pull it off? Kristy wishing she looked a few yrs younger (a few pounds lighter wouldn't hurt either) > >>>>>OK, what's new right? > >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > wishing she looked a few yrs younger (a few pounds lighter wouldn't hurt > either) The girl, the redhead, has an INCREDIBLE voice. Heard her sing some torch songs on a late night sports program (don't ask me why they had that on a sports show) and my oh my, that girl can sing. > >>>> OK, what's new right? > >>>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > He was in "The Full Monty." I am reminded of a comment of one of my English colleagues, when I told him that a friend, very proud of her pet python, had shed his skin for the first time. He asked "Is that the Full Monty Python?" > > > OK, what's new right? > > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > show - but do *you* really think it's OK to show insensitive behavior > towards someone who is grieving about a lost pet? No, as a matter of fact I don't. >Do you think that's > something we should teach our kids is OK to do? There are an infinite > number of other ways for the writers to have made the sister look > ridiculous, but making her look ridiculous because she is grieving about a > lost pet should not have been one of them. Point taken. It actually did make me feel uncomfortable now that I really think about it. Well, the entire point of the show is that they manage to survive in spite of being rude and tasteless. While I would hardly defend their making fun of animal lovers, they also ridicule lesbians, gays, church goers, anyone intelligent, anyone with money, each other etc. The adults lie to each other and to their kids. And each encourages the kids to lie to the other parent. And they have always made fun of the sister for not mirroring their domestic bliss. Plus its a rerun. I doubt they are very sensitive to complaints about the show's format as long as the ratings stay up. Jo > OK, what's new right? > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > CatNipped > OK, what's new right? > > "Still Standing" showed an episode about the wife's sister's cat dying. Oh, I *hate* stuff like this. As if animals weren't already thought of as chatttel in our society. :( -L. > I think this is horrible, not only does it make it OK to make fun of a > person grieving for a cat, but it gives the impression that cats are not > important and the death of a beloved cat should be the source of humor, not > grief.//// At the other end of a spectrum, this reminds of a show, "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" (USA version). For those of you who don't know what it is, it's basically a show where 5 gay guys make-over a straight guy for some important event. This includes the appartment. On one show, the guy being made over had 4 or 5 cats. They were making over the appartment and wanted to address the issue of the cats clawing the furniture. Instead of recommending declawing, the designer, Thom, did a piece to camera about how declawing your pet cat was REALLY cruel, and came up with about 4 different alternatives to stop you cat clawing your furniture. This included the options "Soft Paws" and "Sticky Paws". I was so impressed that a main line show would take the trouble to actually take the opportunity to educate pet owners. On that basis alone, the show has my vote. Helen M > On that basis alone, the show has my vote. It is a very sweet show, I really enjoy it. In the current season they're doing engagements/weddings. The first show of the season was about an army guy who was on his way to Iraq and wanted to marry his "wife" (they got married in another country beforehand, but needed the US marriage certificate to give her benefits) before leaving. It was one of the sweetest, most touching shows I've seen. SignatureVictor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com >> On that basis alone, the show has my vote. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >US marriage certificate to give her benefits) before leaving. It was one >of the sweetest, most touching shows I've seen. I like that show a lot too, because it's one of the very few shows of "Reality TV" that's really based on kindness and not humiliation. Of course there are some laughs at the subject's cluelessness, but these are on the gentle side. The guys are really very sympathetic and kind. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com > are on the gentle side. The guys are really very sympathetic and > kind. I love Carson's remarks, he's so funny! I wish they had a Queer Eye for the Queer Guy, we need new furniture!!! ;-) SignatureVictor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com > I love Carson's remarks, he's so funny! I wish they had a Queer Eye for > the Queer Guy, we need new furniture!!! ;-) Well, you wouldn't have to worry about them advocating declawing to protect the furniture ;o). I would LOVE to go shopping with Carson. He's a scream! And he's an accomplished equestrian too. I believe he competes his horse at national level. Helen M > > are on the gentle side. The guys are really very sympathetic and > > kind. > > I love Carson's remarks, he's so funny! I wish they had a Queer Eye for > the Queer Guy, we need new furniture!!! ;-) When we were in Perth in July, I saw an episode where they helped a gay guy. He was hopeless, his clothes and apartment were hideous. But they did a great job with him. I'm sure you and Tom are way better than that. But I guess you could always fake it and apply. New furniture would be cool :-) -- Britta Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that's covered in fur! Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album > When we were in Perth in July, I saw an episode where they helped a > gay guy. He was hopeless, his clothes and apartment were hideous. Yeah, I saw that episode. I was telling Tom, they ought to take away his gay card!!! ;-) > But they did a great job with him. I'm sure you and Tom are way > better than that. But I guess you could always fake it and apply. > New furniture would be cool :-) Our house is nice, I can't complain. I do love most of what Thom (the decorator guy) does though, he's really good. SignatureVictor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com > Yeah, I saw that episode. I was telling Tom, they ought to take away his > gay card!!! ;-)/// I'll tell you what Victor, every girl should have the oportunity to go shopping with a gay guy. I have a fair few gay guy friends, and every one of them has impeccable dress and design taste.....with the exception of my cousin. His taste is "gaudy/ostentatious-nasty" combined with "no-taste-what-so-ever". How his partner Steve (who has impeccable taste) copes, i don't know! Even Thom wouldn't be able to rescue *HIM*. ;o) Helen M > I'll tell you what Victor, every girl should have the oportunity to go > shopping with a gay guy. I have a fair few gay guy friends, and every > one of them has impeccable dress and design taste.....with the exception Most of my gay friends do have really good taste. Some too much, if you ask me... :) I'm more laid back, I wear jeans every day, one of the advantages of being an engineer in Austin, Texas. Tom needs to dress up for his job. When we go shopping for clothes, I try to choose clothes for Tom. I use the excuse that he's colorblind and cant' realize that the shirt he just picked is hideous... :) I've gotten many compliments from his female co-workers on the nice shirt/tie combinations I've chosen for him... SignatureVictor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com >> I'll tell you what Victor, every girl should have the oportunity to go >> shopping with a gay guy. I have a fair few gay guy friends, and every [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >I've gotten many compliments from his female co-workers on the nice >shirt/tie combinations I've chosen for him... And then there was my old roommate, who completely blew any gay stereotypes about style right out of the water. Comfort counted a lot more than style for him, and his idea of comfort dictated that the garment could not be less than four years old. I was the clotheshorse in those days, but he did not notice or remember *my* clothes any more than my then-husband-to-be did. They were both terrible dressers (they used to call themselves the Beige Brothers)-- I had to help them both out a lot. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com > I've gotten many compliments from his female co-workers on the nice > shirt/tie combinations I've chosen for him.../// That decides it then Victor.... When I come to Austin Texas, or when our grand Mayan adventure masterplan eventually comes to fruition (which ever comes first) You and me are going clothes shopping so I can extrend my wardrobe from plain old jeans :) Helen M > That decides it then Victor.... When I come to Austin Texas, or when our > grand Mayan adventure masterplan eventually comes to fruition (which > ever comes first) You and me are going clothes shopping so I can extrend > my wardrobe from plain old jeans :) It's a deal! And we can go to the outlet mall nearby to get more stuff for your money. Not that it matters much right now, with the exchange rate and all, y'all buropeans get a good deal in dollars! SignatureVictor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com >>> On that basis alone, the show has my vote. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > course there are some laughs at the subject's cluelessness, but these are on > the gentle side. The guys are really very sympathetic and kind. I've never seen the "Queer Eye ..." show, but I *have* seen one redecoration show. Apparently, "friends" of this woman stage what's essentially an intervention, and she gets a bunch of fashion advisors or something and some cash to buy a new wardrobe. I dunno. The whole thing seemed lame to me. Maybe it's because I dress for comfort, not style. I clean up well, but for the most part, I don't care to be bothered with looks, not if it's going to take away from the number of times I can hit "snooze" on the alarm. Believe me, I don't dress the way I do because I don't know any better; it's because I can't be bothered to take the time. But then, I think my friends know that if they tried something like this with me, well, hell hath no fury like a Monique P.O.'d. The part that really bothered, me, I think, was the constant pressure to wear different shoes. As far as I'm concerned, most women's shoes were designed as torture devices, not means of locomotion. And I think it's unfortunate that a woman must wear these torture devices to be considered well-dressed, and it's particularly unfortunate that these people, these people whose job it is to know clothes, couldn't find a comfortable, healthy shoe for this lady. I have a feeling this is where my MIL would say, "You need to lighten up a little. You take things so *seriously*." But really. Guy's dress shoes aren't uncomfortable, and they don't have the potential to damage your feet. Why can't women's dress shoes be the same? I keep imagining trying to run from an assailant wearing dress heels. Hah! Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* "Monique Y. Mudama" <spam@bounceswoosh.org> had some very interesting things to say about Re: Horrible Tasteless TV Show: >I dunno. The whole thing seemed lame to me. Maybe it's because I dress for >comfort, not style. I clean up well, but for the most part, I don't care to >be bothered with looks, not if it's going to take away from the number of >times I can hit "snooze" on the alarm. Believe me, I don't dress the way I do >because I don't know any better; it's because I can't be bothered to take the >time. You sound like me. :-) >The part that really bothered, me, I think, was the constant pressure to wear >different shoes. As far as I'm concerned, most women's shoes were designed as >torture devices, not means of locomotion. And I think it's unfortunate that a >woman must wear these torture devices to be considered well-dressed, and it's >particularly unfortunate that these people, these people whose job it is to >know clothes, couldn't find a comfortable, healthy shoe for this lady. We're twins. :-) Signature"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding. :-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL |
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