Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / January 2005
Cat fur colour question
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Yowie - 18 Jan 2005 04:21 GMT There are rules to cat colour.
I know that, for example, ginger pusses have to be tabbies, alhtough you can breed them sot hat the "tabby" is barely noticeable.. There are two types of 100% white cats. There are genetically 100% white cats, and there are white cats that also have colour genes but aren't being expressed because of a dominant white gene. I think that only girl cats cats can be calicos That "ticking" is a form of tabby marking That the "points" marking is seperate, and so you can have a cat that is only noticable tabby on the points That there is such a thing as "diluted" colour, and a grey cat can well be a genetic black cat that also has the "Diluted" gene, but a grey tabby isn't necessarily one that carried "diluted black" genes. And then tere are the "tipped" cats that can be black on the outside and white (or grey) on the inside, or white on the inside with 'lilac' on the outside etc etc,
Or something like that anyway.
And looking at IBKFergus, despite him looking black, he definatley has tabby marks in the right light, and his underfur is definatley a lighter colour than his outer fur.
So my question is, is there a difference between black tabby and black solid?
And does the classic tuxedo kitty have tabby marks in the right light?
Yowie
Karen Chuplis - 18 Jan 2005 04:31 GMT > There are rules to cat colour. > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Yowie With Sugar and Grant you can definitely see rings in their tail in the sunlight. pearl is definitely BLACK. No rings or brownish color.
mlbriggs - 18 Jan 2005 05:43 GMT > There are rules to cat colour. > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Yowie Probably depends on the individual cat. Genetics would be an interesting study field. MLB
Tish Silberbauer - 18 Jan 2005 10:08 GMT I can't answer your question, except that I've heard somewhere that all black cats are really tabbies.
Almost all calicos and tortiseshell cats are female. You can get the very rare male calico / tortiseshell, but he will have a genetic defect such that instead of having the normal XY sex-determination chromosomes, he has XXY. It is called kleinfelter's syndrome.
I have a question of my own. Spock has a very unusual coat pattern - he is a dark grey tabby on the surface, but if you part his coat, his pattern is only on the very tips of his hair/fur - the bulk of his fur is a light beige / cream colour. Can anyone explain this to me? Is there any such thing as a cat having the "point" gene on all their hair such that the bit of fur that is exposed to cold (the outer edge of fur) turns dark and all the rest is light? For what it's worth, his tail hairs and head hairs are dark all the way to their roots.
Tish - who did some genetics *years* ago, but never had a talent for it.
>There are rules to cat colour. > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Yowie Marie Lawrence - 18 Jan 2005 11:30 GMT Your cat would be called a 'silver tabby' , it is the same gene as the "smoke'. this is distinguished by the pale colour at the root of the hair, and the darker colour at the tip. Marie from OZ
>I can't answer your question, except that I've heard somewhere that > all black cats are really tabbies. [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] >> >>Yowie Marie Lawrence - 18 Jan 2005 11:25 GMT It sounds as if he might be a "smoke" that is, his fur is very pale near the skin, but each hair has a darker tip. I used to have a chocolate smoke Oriental, he looked as if his coat was watered silk, specially on his head. Marie from OZ
> There are rules to cat colour. > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Yowie Cheryl Perkins - 18 Jan 2005 12:13 GMT > So my question is, is there a difference between black tabby and black > solid?
> And does the classic tuxedo kitty have tabby marks in the right light? Some of them do. Some don't seem to. I tried reading a bit about cat colour genetics once, and I decided that if they had used cats instead of pea plants and human eye colour (the simplified version) in basic biology, I never would have passed it. Cat colour genetics are complicated!
 Signature Cheryl
Kreisleriana - 18 Jan 2005 17:23 GMT >> So my question is, is there a difference between black tabby and black >> solid? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >pea plants and human eye colour (the simplified version) in basic biology, >I never would have passed it. Cat colour genetics are complicated! Cat color genetics make my head explode. :P I've never seen stripes on Stinky's black areas.
Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com
Helen Miles - 18 Jan 2005 14:21 GMT > So my question is, is there a difference between black tabby and black > solid?/// Yes. It's a melanistic tabby, in the same way that you get a melanistic (black) jaguar or a melanistic leopard. HRFL Tiger is exactly the same - in the right light you can clearly see his tabby-ness, and in his kitten coat which was a muddy brown/black you could actually *see* the faint stripes. It's cause by a rogue gene.
Helen M
Kreisleriana - 18 Jan 2005 17:24 GMT >> So my question is, is there a difference between black tabby and black >> solid?/// [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Helen M Ooooh, a rogue gene!!! ;)
Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com
Nina K Pettis - 18 Jan 2005 18:24 GMT >>So my question is, is there a difference between black tabby and black >>solid?/// [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > coat which was a muddy brown/black you could actually *see* the faint > stripes. It's cause by a rogue gene. Snickelfritz (RB) was a soft, pure grey in appearance, even in strong sunlight, but her tabby stripes were visible in every photograph we took of her.
Nina in Texas, servant to: Snickelfritz (RB), Pixel (RB 12/03), Rusty (RB 9/04), Seth (RB 12/04), Skeeter, Kyle, Jake, and Fred
 Signature Professional proofreading doesn’t cost – it pays! ninaproofs@earthlink.net www.ninaproofs.com
Victor Martinez - 18 Jan 2005 22:19 GMT > Yes. It's a melanistic tabby, in the same way that you get a melanistic > (black) jaguar or a melanistic leopard. HRFL Tiger is exactly the same - So, are black panthers really black or just jaguars with a very dark background to the black spots?
 Signature Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com
Yowie - 18 Jan 2005 22:40 GMT > > Yes. It's a melanistic tabby, in the same way that you get a melanistic > > (black) jaguar or a melanistic leopard. HRFL Tiger is exactly the same - > > So, are black panthers really black or just jaguars with a very dark > background to the black spots? Yes
:-) Yowie (they've got black spots on a black background)
CK - 18 Jan 2005 16:36 GMT <snip>
> And looking at IBKFergus, despite him looking black, he definatley has tabby > marks in the right light, and his underfur is definatley a lighter colour > than his outer fur. <snip>
Laku is exactly like that. His outer, "cover" fur, is black and his softer underfur is greyish, but you don't see the underfur unless you part the outer fur. Also under direct strong lamplight or sunlight he has definite reddish brown tabby markings.
 Signature Christine in Vantaa, Finland christal63 (at) yahoo (dot) com photos: http://photos.yahoo.com/christal63
Ginger-lyn Summer - 18 Jan 2005 18:20 GMT >There are rules to cat colour. > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Yowie Good question. I think, like someone else posted, that, underneath it all, all black cats are tabbies. I have three black cats, and there are differences among them. Sabra is coal-black; several people have commented he is the blackest cat they have ever seen. Like many black cats, though, in the sunlight, you can see brown on him. Trill is pretty black, too, although he has a bit of white on him. I've never noticed the brown on him in the light. Merlyn is black, with a noticeably grey underbelly. I think there is a term for that sort of cat, but I forget what it is offhand.
That probably doesn't answer any questions, but that's all I know!
Ginger-lyn
Christina Websell - 18 Jan 2005 18:50 GMT [...]
> So my question is, is there a difference between black tabby and black > solid? > > And does the classic tuxedo kitty have tabby marks in the right light? I've never seen a black tabby. Kitty FC is a classic tuxedo. Usually she is solid black with white, but sometimes in the summer the sun bleaches her fur so that it looks dark brown. She hasn't got any stripes, in any kind of light.
Tweed
Yowie - 18 Jan 2005 22:46 GMT > There are rules to cat colour. > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > And does the classic tuxedo kitty have tabby marks in the right light? To answer my own question:
http://members.tripod.com/~siamkatze/cca/genetics.html
IBKFergus is most likely a black tabby. Although I'll have to wait until his adult coat fully develops before its certain. It still doesn't explain the speckles of pure white hairs on his legs, face and tummy, though.
Yowie
Nina K Pettis - 18 Jan 2005 23:45 GMT >>There are rules to cat colour. >> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > adult coat fully develops before its certain. It still doesn't explain the > speckles of pure white hairs on his legs, face and tummy, though. Which reminds me: Jake is a red tabby with white, and the red-tabby portion of his coat is liberally sprinkled with black hairs -- not enough in any one place to form a "spot", but if I riffle his fur I see a lot of them. ISTR that Rusty (RB) also had black hairs in his red-tabby parts, though not as many -- and his color was closer to apricot, whereas Jake is a deep copper. Have any of the other red-tabby owners noticed these black hairs?
Nina in Texas, servant to: Snickelfritz (RB), Pixel (RB 12/03), Rusty (RB 9/04), Seth (RB 12/04), Skeeter, Kyle, Jake, and Fred
 Signature Professional proofreading doesn’t cost – it pays! ninaproofs@earthlink.net www.ninaproofs.com
Victor Martinez - 18 Jan 2005 23:45 GMT > adult coat fully develops before its certain. It still doesn't explain the > speckles of pure white hairs on his legs, face and tummy, though. We need jpegs of kitty tummy!!!
 Signature Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com
Yowie - 19 Jan 2005 00:21 GMT > > adult coat fully develops before its certain. It still doesn't explain the > > speckles of pure white hairs on his legs, face and tummy, though. > > We need jpegs of kitty tummy!!! IBKFergus has yet to stay still enough for me to get a good photo of him - the likelihood of him being still long enough *with his belly showing* is very very low - at least until he discovers how to do the kitty starfish belly bait maneuvre.
Shmogg is now responding to IBKFergus's guerrilla assaults and boxing his ears when they are in range. Of course, IBKFergus thinks this is *play*. Still, the spent 10 minutes on their bed (which they let me sleep on) less than 2 foot apart, and in sight of each other. Shmogg eventually decided that it wasn't Proper, and chased IBKFergus off his bed, but I'm starting to think that they might actually be friends.
The intergration of IBKFergus into Shmogg's house is certainly going better than when Fluffy invaded Shmogg's home. Shmogg *still* doesn't get along with Fluffy (Fluffy gets along jsut fine with Shmogg of course), but tends to treat Fluff as something to be ignored rather than spending any time or energy actually disliking her.
Yowie
Cheryl Perkins - 19 Jan 2005 11:52 GMT > IBKFergus is most likely a black tabby. Although I'll have to wait until his > adult coat fully develops before its certain. It still doesn't explain the > speckles of pure white hairs on his legs, face and tummy, though. My cats were quite mature before a vet told me that they weren't, as I had assumed, tabby cats. They are tabby-tortie; it seems that tabby cats lack the creamy and red patches. I'd been calling anything with stripes a tabby cat which is, it appears, not technically correct.
I always did say that my cats were equipped to shed any colour fur that a cat can grow.
 Signature Cheryl
Yowie - 21 Jan 2005 01:11 GMT > > IBKFergus is most likely a black tabby. Although I'll have to wait until his > > adult coat fully develops before its certain. It still doesn't explain the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I always did say that my cats were equipped to shed any colour fur that a > cat can grow. I'm quite sure that even 100% black cats keep a stash of white fur somewhere secret jsut in case the encounter black fabric, and 100% white cats do the the same with black hair.
I mean, clothes without visible cat fur - what would be the point of putting up with hoomins if you couldn't leave visible fur on their clothing?
Yowie
CATherine - 19 Jan 2005 02:42 GMT >There are rules to cat colour. > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Yowie Djoser is anthracite, shiny, silky, coal black with no striping in any type of light and it is all the way to the roots. And his winter undercoat is dark gray. But he does have a very few white hairs scatterd about.
Sheba is a ticked Tortie with white, a patch on throat and belly. Her head and lower tail are colored to the roots. But the rest of her hair is ticked with grey underneath. She has a lot of black, some dark gray, and light orange and I can see in a few places thin very orange stripes.
I used to have a tuxedo years ago. His black showed faint stripes on the tail in direct sunlight. I read years ago that true black cats are rare because; during, or was it before, the Black Death, a lot of black cats were killed, as they were during the later witch hunts.
-- CATherine
Marina - 19 Jan 2005 05:19 GMT <snip genetics>
> So my question is, is there a difference between black tabby and black > solid? > > And does the classic tuxedo kitty have tabby marks in the right light? Neither Frank nor Nikki have any tabby markings, but Frank's black parts have gradually turned brown as he gets older. Nikki is still black as ink, at age 16. Frank was always somewhat brownish in the right light. But no stripes on either.
 Signature Marina, Frank and Nikki marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki
Julie Cook - 19 Jan 2005 05:59 GMT > And looking at IBKFergus, despite him looking black, he definatley has tabby > marks in the right light, and his underfur is definatley a lighter colour [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Yowie I don't have an answer to your questions but I've uploaded some pictures of one of my outdoor kitties that has unusual coloration. You may remember that I'm feeding a black cat in my yard. She must belong to someone as she's just entirely too friendly. I'm afraid that she belongs to someone who is neglecting her (what else would you call it when your cat is outside and its below 30*F?) and she's decided to claim us as her Onetruehome. I decided I really needed to call her something other than Black Cat so I call her Mariah.
There is also a young, intact tom that was visiting daily for a meal. He is a tabby with the circular pattern of tabby stripes on his sides. I started calling him Zucchini for whatever reason but he didn't like that one bit and made sure I knew his name was Zeke. I haven't seen him since it got really cold so I'm hoping his family decided he needed to stay inside. He's friendly as well although a little more reserved than Mariah who is simply a slut (except where Zeke is concerned). I have posted some pictures of Zeke and a one new one of Mariah from a recent feeding session. I wish I could have gotten better shots of his side but you can at least see that he has unusual markings.
Mariah, who I thought was a black cat, has a lot of brown in her undercoat. She's a strange cat. She hangs out on the roof of our house and gets there on the side of the house where a tree is growing close. We've been discussing cutting the tree down but DH said the other day, "If we cut the tree down how will Mariah get up and down?" Well, I found the answer to that questions. She doesn't climb the tree. She climbs the brick chimney. She totally ignores a perfectly climbable tree next to the house and instead scales the wall. Maybe I should have named her Spidey.
Pictures of Zeke can be found at: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/julie_snowshoe/album?.dir=/5055&.src=ph&.tok=phSmJ ZCBTKP1uqa5
or
http://tinyurl.com/4do2e
Julie
Krista - 19 Jan 2005 07:52 GMT (snippage)
> http://tinyurl.com/4do2e > > Julie Oooooohhhhh, Mariah is a beauty; she looks a lot like Lula with all the brown fur mixed in with the black. And Zeke is stunning too - he's very unusual looking. I'm glad you posted this; I'd been meaning to ask about Mariah.
Obviously you don't have enough cats. Mariah and Zeke are here to help with that. ;-)
------ Krista
Marina - 19 Jan 2005 11:13 GMT > Pictures of Zeke can be found at: > http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/julie_snowshoe/album?.dir=/5055&.src=ph&.tok=phSmJ ZCBTKP1uqa5 He is gorgeous. That's the colour my sister's cat Mathilda was (I called her a tortie in another post, but I believe the correct name for that pattern is marbled tabby). Any green tinges in Zeke's fur? Mathilda's was definitely green in places.
About Mariah's scaling of the wall. My former boss had a cat who would climb up to her flat on the third floor along a plain concrete wall. She would do this with prey in her mouth. unbelievable but true. Nikki has also climbed up a concrete pillar one time, when an unleashed German Shepherd charged at her. I'm happy Nikki didn't decide to stand her ground, and I let go of her leash so she could climb up, since there was nowhere for her to climb *to* from the pillar. The owner of the d*g came slowly ambling up, feebly tried to call her d*g and then ambled away. Luckily the d*g decided to follow her instead up keeping Nikki up the pillar. That d*g was clearly not trained at all. Grrr. Of course, it's also illegal to keep d*gs unleashed. Double grrr.
 Signature Marina, Frank and Nikki marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki
Kreisleriana - 19 Jan 2005 17:09 GMT >> And looking at IBKFergus, despite him looking black, he definatley has tabby >> marks in the right light, and his underfur is definatley a lighter colour [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >feeding session. I wish I could have gotten better shots of his side >but you can at least see that he has unusual markings. WOW! Love that swirly tabby!
>Mariah, who I thought was a black cat, has a lot of brown in her >undercoat. She's a strange cat. She hangs out on the roof of our house [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >tree next to the house and instead scales the wall. Maybe I should have >named her Spidey. She's one of those oddly elegant outside cats. ;) Quite the princess. ;)
>Pictures of Zeke can be found at: >http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/julie_snowshoe/album?.dir=/5055&.src=ph&.tok=phSmJ ZCBTKP1uqa5 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Julie Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com
Shirley - 20 Jan 2005 23:54 GMT I was told that all black cats are just tabbies in disguise ;-)
 Signature Shirley
> There are rules to cat colour. > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Yowie
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