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Cat fur colour question

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Yowie - 18 Jan 2005 04:21 GMT
There are rules to cat colour.

I know that, for example, ginger pusses have to be tabbies, alhtough you can
breed them sot hat the "tabby" is barely noticeable..
There are two types of 100% white cats. There are genetically 100% white
cats, and there are white cats that also have colour genes but aren't being
expressed because of a dominant white gene.
I think that only girl cats cats can be calicos
That "ticking" is a form of tabby marking
That the "points" marking is seperate, and so you can have a cat that is
only noticable tabby on the points
That there is such a thing as "diluted" colour, and a grey cat can well be a
genetic black cat that also has the "Diluted" gene, but a grey tabby isn't
necessarily one that carried "diluted black" genes. And then tere are the
"tipped" cats that can be black on the outside and white (or grey) on the
inside, or white on the inside with 'lilac' on the outside etc etc,

Or something like that anyway.

And looking at IBKFergus, despite him looking black, he definatley has tabby
marks in the right light, and his underfur is definatley a lighter colour
than his outer fur.

So my question is, is there a difference between black tabby and black
solid?

And does the classic tuxedo kitty have tabby marks in the right light?

Yowie
Karen Chuplis - 18 Jan 2005 04:31 GMT
> There are rules to cat colour.
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Yowie

With Sugar and Grant you can definitely see rings in their tail in the
sunlight. pearl is definitely BLACK. No rings or brownish color.
mlbriggs - 18 Jan 2005 05:43 GMT
> There are rules to cat colour.
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Yowie

Probably depends on the individual cat.  Genetics would be an interesting
study field.  MLB
Tish Silberbauer - 18 Jan 2005 10:08 GMT
I can't answer your question, except that I've heard somewhere that
all black cats are really tabbies.

Almost all calicos and tortiseshell cats are female.  You can get the
very rare male calico / tortiseshell, but he will have a genetic
defect such that instead of having the normal XY sex-determination
chromosomes, he has XXY.  It is called kleinfelter's syndrome.

I have a question of my own.  Spock has a very unusual coat pattern -
he is a dark grey tabby on the surface, but if you part his coat, his
pattern is only on the very tips of his hair/fur - the bulk of his fur
is a light beige / cream colour.  Can anyone explain this to me?  Is
there any such thing as a cat having the "point" gene on all their
hair such that the bit of fur that is exposed to cold (the outer edge
of fur) turns dark and all the rest is light?  For what it's worth,
his tail hairs and head hairs are dark all the way to their roots.  

Tish - who did some genetics *years* ago, but never had a talent for
it.

>There are rules to cat colour.
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
>Yowie
Marie Lawrence - 18 Jan 2005 11:30 GMT
Your cat would be called a 'silver tabby' , it is the same gene as the
"smoke'.  this is distinguished by the pale colour at the root of the hair,
and the darker colour at the tip.
                                                                           
                       Marie  from OZ

>I can't answer your question, except that I've heard somewhere that
> all black cats are really tabbies.
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>>
>>Yowie
Marie Lawrence - 18 Jan 2005 11:25 GMT
It sounds as if he might be a "smoke"  that is, his fur is very pale near
the skin,  but each hair has a darker tip.   I used to have a chocolate
smoke Oriental,  he looked as if his coat was watered silk,  specially on
his head.     Marie from OZ

> There are rules to cat colour.
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Yowie
Cheryl Perkins - 18 Jan 2005 12:13 GMT
> So my question is, is there a difference between black tabby and black
> solid?

> And does the classic tuxedo kitty have tabby marks in the right light?

Some of them do. Some don't seem to. I tried reading a bit about cat
colour genetics once, and I decided that if they had used cats instead of
pea plants and human eye colour (the simplified version) in basic biology,
I never would have passed it. Cat colour genetics are complicated!

Signature

Cheryl

Kreisleriana - 18 Jan 2005 17:23 GMT
>> So my question is, is there a difference between black tabby and black
>> solid?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>pea plants and human eye colour (the simplified version) in basic biology,
>I never would have passed it. Cat colour genetics are complicated!

Cat color genetics make my head explode.  :P  I've never seen stripes
on Stinky's black areas.

Theresa
Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh
My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com
Helen Miles - 18 Jan 2005 14:21 GMT
> So my question is, is there a difference between black tabby and black
> solid?///

Yes. It's a melanistic tabby, in the same way that you get a melanistic
(black) jaguar or a melanistic leopard. HRFL Tiger is exactly the same -
in the right light you can clearly see his tabby-ness, and in his kitten
coat which was a muddy brown/black you could actually *see* the faint
stripes. It's cause by a rogue gene.

Helen M
Kreisleriana - 18 Jan 2005 17:24 GMT
>> So my question is, is there a difference between black tabby and black
>> solid?///
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Helen M

Ooooh, a rogue gene!!! ;)

Theresa
Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh
My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com
Nina K Pettis - 18 Jan 2005 18:24 GMT
>>So my question is, is there a difference between black tabby and black
>>solid?///
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> coat which was a muddy brown/black you could actually *see* the faint
> stripes. It's cause by a rogue gene.

Snickelfritz (RB) was a soft, pure grey in appearance, even in strong
sunlight, but her tabby stripes were visible in every photograph we took
of her.

Nina in Texas, servant to: Snickelfritz (RB), Pixel (RB 12/03), Rusty
(RB 9/04), Seth (RB 12/04), Skeeter, Kyle, Jake, and Fred
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Victor Martinez - 18 Jan 2005 22:19 GMT
> Yes. It's a melanistic tabby, in the same way that you get a melanistic
> (black) jaguar or a melanistic leopard. HRFL Tiger is exactly the same -

So, are black panthers really black or just jaguars with a very dark
background to the black spots?

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Victor M. Martinez
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Yowie - 18 Jan 2005 22:40 GMT
> > Yes. It's a melanistic tabby, in the same way that you get a melanistic
> > (black) jaguar or a melanistic leopard. HRFL Tiger is exactly the same -
>
> So, are black panthers really black or just jaguars with a very dark
> background to the black spots?

Yes

:-)

Yowie
(they've got black spots on a black background)
CK - 18 Jan 2005 16:36 GMT
<snip>
> And looking at IBKFergus, despite him looking black, he definatley has tabby
> marks in the right light, and his underfur is definatley a lighter colour
> than his outer fur.
<snip>

Laku is exactly like that. His outer, "cover" fur, is black and his
softer underfur is greyish, but you don't see the underfur unless you
part the outer fur. Also under direct strong lamplight or sunlight he
has definite reddish brown tabby markings.

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Christine in Vantaa, Finland
christal63 (at) yahoo (dot) com
photos: http://photos.yahoo.com/christal63

Ginger-lyn Summer - 18 Jan 2005 18:20 GMT
>There are rules to cat colour.
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
>Yowie

Good question. I think, like someone else posted, that, underneath it
all, all black cats are tabbies.  I have three black cats, and there
are differences among them.  Sabra is coal-black; several people have
commented he is the blackest cat they have ever seen.  Like many black
cats, though, in the sunlight, you can see brown on him.  Trill is
pretty black, too, although he has a bit of white on him.  I've never
noticed the brown on him in the light.  Merlyn is black, with a
noticeably grey underbelly.  I think there is a term for that sort of
cat, but I forget what it is offhand.

That probably doesn't answer any questions, but that's all I know!

Ginger-lyn
Christina Websell - 18 Jan 2005 18:50 GMT
[...]
> So my question is, is there a difference between black tabby and black
> solid?
>
> And does the classic tuxedo kitty have tabby marks in the right light?

I've never seen a black tabby.  Kitty FC is a classic tuxedo.  Usually she
is solid black with white, but sometimes in the summer the sun bleaches her
fur so that it looks dark brown.  She hasn't got any stripes, in any kind of
light.

Tweed
Yowie - 18 Jan 2005 22:46 GMT
> There are rules to cat colour.
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> And does the classic tuxedo kitty have tabby marks in the right light?

To answer my own question:

http://members.tripod.com/~siamkatze/cca/genetics.html

IBKFergus is most likely a black tabby. Although I'll have to wait until his
adult coat fully develops before its certain. It still doesn't explain the
speckles of pure white hairs on his legs, face and tummy, though.

Yowie
Nina K Pettis - 18 Jan 2005 23:45 GMT
>>There are rules to cat colour.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> adult coat fully develops before its certain. It still doesn't explain the
> speckles of pure white hairs on his legs, face and tummy, though.

Which reminds me: Jake is a red tabby with white, and the red-tabby
portion of his coat is liberally sprinkled with black hairs -- not
enough in any one place to form a "spot", but if I riffle his fur I see
a lot of them.  ISTR that Rusty (RB) also had black hairs in his
red-tabby parts, though not as many -- and his color was closer to
apricot, whereas Jake is a deep copper.  Have any of the other red-tabby
owners noticed these black hairs?

Nina in Texas, servant to: Snickelfritz (RB), Pixel (RB 12/03), Rusty
(RB 9/04), Seth (RB 12/04), Skeeter, Kyle, Jake, and Fred
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Victor Martinez - 18 Jan 2005 23:45 GMT
> adult coat fully develops before its certain. It still doesn't explain the
> speckles of pure white hairs on his legs, face and tummy, though.

We need jpegs of kitty tummy!!!

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Victor M. Martinez
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Yowie - 19 Jan 2005 00:21 GMT
> > adult coat fully develops before its certain. It still doesn't explain the
> > speckles of pure white hairs on his legs, face and tummy, though.
>
> We need jpegs of kitty tummy!!!

IBKFergus has yet to stay still enough for me to get a good photo of him -
the likelihood of him being still long enough *with his belly showing* is
very very low - at least until he discovers how to do the kitty starfish
belly bait maneuvre.

Shmogg is now responding to IBKFergus's guerrilla assaults and boxing his
ears when they are in range. Of course, IBKFergus thinks this is *play*.
Still, the spent 10 minutes on their bed (which they let me sleep on) less
than 2 foot apart, and in sight of each other. Shmogg eventually decided
that it wasn't Proper, and chased IBKFergus off his bed, but I'm starting to
think that they might actually be friends.

The intergration of IBKFergus into Shmogg's house is certainly going better
than when Fluffy invaded Shmogg's home. Shmogg *still* doesn't get along
with Fluffy (Fluffy gets along jsut fine with Shmogg of course), but tends
to treat Fluff as something to be ignored rather than spending any time or
energy actually disliking her.

Yowie
Cheryl Perkins - 19 Jan 2005 11:52 GMT
> IBKFergus is most likely a black tabby. Although I'll have to wait until his
> adult coat fully develops before its certain. It still doesn't explain the
> speckles of pure white hairs on his legs, face and tummy, though.

My cats were quite mature before a vet told me that they weren't, as I had
assumed, tabby cats. They are tabby-tortie; it seems that tabby cats lack
the creamy and red patches. I'd been calling anything with stripes a tabby
cat which is, it appears, not technically correct.

I always did say that my cats were equipped to shed any colour fur that a
cat can grow.

Signature

Cheryl

Yowie - 21 Jan 2005 01:11 GMT
> > IBKFergus is most likely a black tabby. Although I'll have to wait until his
> > adult coat fully develops before its certain. It still doesn't explain the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I always did say that my cats were equipped to shed any colour fur that a
> cat can grow.

I'm quite sure that even 100% black cats keep a stash of white fur somewhere
secret jsut in case the encounter black fabric, and 100% white cats do the
the same with black hair.

I mean, clothes without visible cat fur - what would be the point of putting
up with hoomins if you couldn't leave visible fur on their clothing?

Yowie
CATherine - 19 Jan 2005 02:42 GMT
>There are rules to cat colour.
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
>Yowie

Djoser is anthracite, shiny, silky, coal black with no striping in any
type of light and it is all the way to the roots. And his winter
undercoat is dark gray. But he does have a very few white hairs
scatterd about.

Sheba is a ticked Tortie with white, a patch on throat and belly. Her
head and lower tail are colored to the roots. But the rest of her hair
is ticked with grey underneath. She has a lot of black, some dark
gray, and light orange and I can see in a few places thin very orange
stripes.

I used to have a tuxedo years ago. His black showed faint stripes on
the tail in  direct sunlight. I read years ago that true black cats
are rare because; during, or was it before, the Black Death, a lot of
black cats were killed, as they were during the later witch hunts.

--
CATherine
Marina - 19 Jan 2005 05:19 GMT
<snip genetics>
> So my question is, is there a difference between black tabby and black
> solid?
>
> And does the classic tuxedo kitty have tabby marks in the right light?

Neither Frank nor Nikki have any tabby markings, but Frank's black parts
have gradually turned brown as he gets older. Nikki is still black as
ink, at age 16. Frank was always somewhat brownish in the right light.
But no stripes on either.

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Marina, Frank and Nikki
marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Julie Cook - 19 Jan 2005 05:59 GMT
> And looking at IBKFergus, despite him looking black, he definatley has tabby
> marks in the right light, and his underfur is definatley a lighter colour
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Yowie

I don't have an answer to your questions but I've uploaded some pictures
of one of my outdoor kitties that has unusual coloration.  You may
remember that I'm feeding a black cat in my yard.  She must belong to
someone as she's just entirely too friendly.  I'm afraid that she
belongs to someone who is neglecting her (what else would you call it
when your cat is outside and its below 30*F?) and she's decided to claim
us as her Onetruehome. I decided I really needed to call her something
other than Black Cat so I call her Mariah.

There is also a young, intact tom that was visiting daily for a meal. He
is a tabby with the circular pattern of tabby stripes on his sides.  I
started calling him Zucchini for whatever reason but he didn't like that
one bit and made sure I knew his name was Zeke.  I haven't seen him
since it got really cold so I'm hoping his family decided he needed to
stay inside.  He's friendly as well although a little more reserved than
Mariah who is simply a slut (except where Zeke is concerned).  I have
posted some pictures of Zeke and a one new one of Mariah from a recent
feeding session.  I wish I could have gotten better shots of his side
but you can at least see that he has unusual markings.

Mariah, who I thought was a black cat, has a lot of brown in her
undercoat.  She's a strange cat.  She hangs out on the roof of our house
and gets there on the side of the house where a tree is growing close.
We've been discussing cutting the tree down but DH said the other day,
"If we cut the tree down how will Mariah get up and down?"  Well, I
found the answer to that questions.  She doesn't climb the tree. She
climbs the brick chimney.  She totally ignores a perfectly climbable
tree next to the house and instead scales the wall.  Maybe I should have
named her Spidey.

Pictures of Zeke can be found at:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/julie_snowshoe/album?.dir=/5055&.src=ph&.tok=phSmJ
ZCBTKP1uqa5


or

http://tinyurl.com/4do2e

Julie
Krista - 19 Jan 2005 07:52 GMT
(snippage)

> http://tinyurl.com/4do2e
>
> Julie

Oooooohhhhh, Mariah is a beauty; she looks a lot like Lula with all the
brown fur mixed in with the black.  And Zeke is stunning too - he's
very unusual looking.  I'm glad you posted this; I'd been meaning to
ask about Mariah.

Obviously you don't have enough cats.  Mariah and Zeke are here to help
with that.  ;-)

------
Krista
Marina - 19 Jan 2005 11:13 GMT
> Pictures of Zeke can be found at:
> http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/julie_snowshoe/album?.dir=/5055&.src=ph&.tok=phSmJ
ZCBTKP1uqa5
 

He is gorgeous. That's the colour my sister's cat Mathilda was (I called
her a tortie in another post, but I believe the correct name for that
pattern is marbled tabby). Any green tinges in Zeke's fur? Mathilda's
was definitely green in places.

About Mariah's scaling of the wall. My former boss had a cat who would
climb up to her flat on the third floor along a plain concrete wall. She
would do this with prey in her mouth. unbelievable but true. Nikki has
also climbed up a concrete pillar one time, when an unleashed German
Shepherd charged at her. I'm happy Nikki didn't decide to stand her
ground, and I let go of her leash so she could climb up, since there was
nowhere for her to climb *to* from the pillar. The owner of the d*g came
slowly ambling up, feebly tried to call her d*g and then ambled away.
Luckily the d*g decided to follow her instead up keeping Nikki up the
pillar. That d*g was clearly not trained at all. Grrr. Of course, it's
also illegal to keep d*gs unleashed. Double grrr.

Signature

Marina, Frank and Nikki
marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Kreisleriana - 19 Jan 2005 17:09 GMT
>> And looking at IBKFergus, despite him looking black, he definatley has tabby
>> marks in the right light, and his underfur is definatley a lighter colour
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>feeding session.  I wish I could have gotten better shots of his side
>but you can at least see that he has unusual markings.

WOW!  Love that swirly tabby!

>Mariah, who I thought was a black cat, has a lot of brown in her
>undercoat.  She's a strange cat.  She hangs out on the roof of our house
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>tree next to the house and instead scales the wall.  Maybe I should have
>named her Spidey.

She's one of those oddly elegant outside cats.  ;)  Quite the
princess. ;)

>Pictures of Zeke can be found at:
>http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/julie_snowshoe/album?.dir=/5055&.src=ph&.tok=phSmJ
ZCBTKP1uqa5

[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Julie

Theresa
Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh
My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com
Shirley - 20 Jan 2005 23:54 GMT
I was told that all black cats are just tabbies in disguise ;-)

Signature

Shirley

> There are rules to cat colour.
>
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Yowie
 
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