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OT. Colorado people could  help here

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Christina Websell - 12 Jan 2005 23:19 GMT
Could anyone living in Colarado tell me how cold your weather has been
(minimum temp) up to now this winter.
The reason I ask is that there is a the start of a flame war on my chicken
group.  Person from Colorado posts to say she has lost chickens.  Person
from Michigan posts saying what do you expect if you keep them outside in
your sort of weather.
Person from England (someone a bit like Megan, means well, but attacks too
quickly) posts to say
"I find it deeply saddening that someone got chickens knowing full well she
didn't have proper housing for them and seems totally unconcerned that they
are freezing to death :0( "

There's no question that these chickens had some sort of hut or shed for
shelter.  How realistic is it for it not to be insulated in a Colorado
winter, and if it wasn't, would you expect chickens to freeze to death
inside there?

This UK poster can be a PITA about this sort of thing, without knowing the
facts will accuse people of cruelty, mostly unfounded and very insulting to
those concerned.
So, my friends on rpca, if you can arm me with the true information, I would
take a great delight in shooting her down in flames.  To tell the truth I'm
fed up with her assumptions and the upset she keeps causing. Often genuine
newbies search for a newsgroup to air their problem.  To me that shows
someone that cares. Then they get flamed by this woman.
I'd like to get my facts right before I go off the deep end :)
For all I know it might be -40 in Colorado, and an insulated hut would be
essential.  On the other hand the temperature mightn't get too low.  I
haven't a clue about winter weather temperatures in Colorado.
Can any of you help?
TIA

Tweed
Monique Y. Mudama - 12 Jan 2005 23:36 GMT
I have no idea what sort of temperatures chickens need to survive.

A typical Colorado winter day might see a low in the teens (fahrenheit) and a
high in the 40s.  However, the Colorado state motto is, "If you don't like the
weather, wait 5 minutes!"  I've experienced 80 degree drops in a single day.

During the day, it is very sunny, so it would not be unreasonable to walk
around in a sweatshirt and no coat many winter days.  Once it gets dark,
though, it's quite a bit colder.

Also, in a given winter, you would typically expect to see at least a few days
in which the high is in the single-digits.  Not very long ago, we had a few
days in which the high was something like 15 degrees.  In fact, a homeless man
in Boulder was run over because it was so cold that he risked falling asleep
on a vent in the middle of the road, just to keep warm.  We also recently had
winds with gusts up to (if I remember correctly) 80 miles per hour.

All of that being said, while I wouldn't leave a pet out on most winter
nights, I don't know what the typical farmer would do with their livestock.

> Could anyone living in Colarado tell me how cold your weather has been
> (minimum temp) up to now this winter.  The reason I ask is that there is a
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Tweed

Signature

monique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eros was adopted!  Eros has a home now!  *cheer!*

Yowie - 12 Jan 2005 23:57 GMT
> Could anyone living in Colarado tell me how cold your weather has been
> (minimum temp) up to now this winter.
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> haven't a clue about winter weather temperatures in Colorado.
> Can any of you help?

Here's a climate summary for many places in Colorado
http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/summary/climsmco.html

I've never kept chickens. But lets just transfer this over to cats, because
the analogy is the same. I go out and leave Shmogg inside the house. During
summer, it can get very hot in my house, but Shmogg has so far beem just
fine - and has been just fine for all his 15 years. But there is a
possibility that it could be *very* hot this summer and when I get home
after a week of temperatures higher than ever before, that Shmogg has been
overcome by the heat and has gone to Rainbow Bridge. That does not mean for
the last 14 years I have been an irresponsible cat owner, nor that I should
have installed air-con to keep Shmogg cool during the hot summers, because
of the remote possibility of a heat wave that he wouldn't survive. I can't
predict what will happen in the future, all I can do is judge on previous
experience and take *reasonable steps* to ensure the safety and well being
of my animals. At this point, I don't consider it reasonable to install air
conditioning on the off chance that there will be a heat wave of such
magnitude that it will kill my cat, but of course, if I knew that such a
heatwave was about to occur, I *would* make sure that Shmogg was safe.

Ditto with the chicken owner. Assuming that he or she has been keeping
chickens in Colorado for a number of years and has never previously had a
problem, it is reasonable to assume that he or she took appropriate steps to
protect said chickens from the cold, and those steps have worked in the
past. I am also sure that, had they known that said chickens were in danger,
that they would have taken additional precautions, but us humans aren't
known for our prescience.

It could also be a possibility that losing a few chickens each year is just
one of those unfortunate facts of chicken farming. There's always a cost
(not necessarily dollars) / benefit (also not necesarily dollars) ratio that
we have to consider each time we take a risk - no matter how small. Thats
why we humans live on fault lines, in hurricane and tornado areas, and
tragically for many - near the sea.

Yowie
Annie Wxill - 13 Jan 2005 00:34 GMT
....> There's no question that these chickens had some sort of hut or shed
for
> shelter.  How realistic is it for it not to be insulated in a Colorado
> winter, and if it wasn't, would you expect chickens to freeze to death
> inside there?
...> Tweed
To put the question on-topic, we had three hens for a number of years when
we lived in Eastern Washington State. They were a FFA project for one of our
daughters. I don't know about Colorado, but I imagine it is much colder
there because of the higher elevation.
Anyway, one winter it was colder than usual in Washington, and the
temperature hovered just at and just below freezing for several days.  I had
to haul water for the horses because their trough froze.
Our hens had a little shelter with nesting boxes with hay for bedding. The
shelter had a flap I could raise to get to the hens.
Each day I took out feed and water for them so they wouldn't have to get
their little chicken feet cold and gave them breakfast in bed.
Usually, we brought the cats inside at night, but one night Mac made himself
scarce. He had access to a barn and lots of tunnels between bales of hay, so
I wasn't too worried about him.
The next morning I went out and lifted the flap to the chicken shelter, and
there, nestled between two hens, was Mac.
That is one picture I'll always wish I could have taken.

As for the Colorado chickens, I think they would need some kind of shelter
and it probably would need to be insulated. (Unless they had a willing cat.)
Annie
:-\)Liz - 13 Jan 2005 01:23 GMT
When I lived in Colorado(near Wolf Creek Pass)..low those many years
ago....we had a large wooden shed with hay on the ground and nesting boxes
on shelves...in the winter the chickens were shushed inside at dusk ...the
doors and windows were closed and lighting was turned on.....No problems
with the cold nor did we have any chickens die(that I recall)...The key
was..get them out of the wind and snow at nite..also key to keep the
predators from getting at them in the night) :-) Liz (PS..it averaged 0*-5*
at night... most winter nites)

> ....> There's no question that these chickens had some sort of hut or shed
> for
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> and it probably would need to be insulated. (Unless they had a willing cat.)
> Annie
Monique Y. Mudama - 13 Jan 2005 01:35 GMT
On 2005-01-13, :-)Liz penned:
> When I lived in Colorado(near Wolf Creek Pass)..low those many years
> ago....we had a large wooden shed with hay on the ground and nesting boxes
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> predators from getting at them in the night) :-) Liz (PS..it averaged 0*-5*
> at night... most winter nites)

Wow, you lived near wolf creek? I hope you skied!

Signature

monique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eros was adopted!  Eros has a home now!  *cheer!*

:-\)Liz - 13 Jan 2005 02:57 GMT
Sure did! Especially loved cross country skiing...nothing more beautiful and
glorious than that! Of course, you always had to be aware of avalanche
conditions!...I also, loved fly fishing and backpacking....wish my knees
were still good...I really miss the 3 day pack-ins...:-) Liz

> On 2005-01-13, :-)Liz penned:
> > When I lived in Colorado(near Wolf Creek Pass)..low those many years
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Wow, you lived near wolf creek? I hope you skied!
Monique Y. Mudama - 13 Jan 2005 03:04 GMT
On 2005-01-13, :-)Liz penned:
> Sure did! Especially loved cross country skiing...nothing more beautiful and
> glorious than that! Of course, you always had to be aware of avalanche
> conditions!...I also, loved fly fishing and backpacking....wish my knees
> were still good...I really miss the 3 day pack-ins...:-) Liz

I've never been to wolf creek, but I have a friend who swears by it.

Sorry about the knees =/  Mine suck too.  I'm trying a glucosamine supplement.
A friend said her knees got a lot better when she started taking the stuff.

Signature

monique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eros was adopted!  Eros has a home now!  *cheer!*

:-\)Liz - 13 Jan 2005 03:25 GMT
I've been on the supplement for over 2mths...so far...I don't see any
difference...but I keep hoping...:-) Liz

> On 2005-01-13, :-)Liz penned:
> > Sure did! Especially loved cross country skiing...nothing more beautiful and
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Sorry about the knees =/  Mine suck too.  I'm trying a glucosamine supplement.
> A friend said her knees got a lot better when she started taking the stuff.
Seanette Blaylock - 13 Jan 2005 02:52 GMT
"Annie Wxill" <Annie_Wxill@hotmail.com> had some very interesting
things to say about Re: OT. Colorado people could  help here:

>Usually, we brought the cats inside at night, but one night Mac made himself
>scarce. He had access to a barn and lots of tunnels between bales of hay, so
>I wasn't too worried about him.
>The next morning I went out and lifted the flap to the chicken shelter, and
>there, nestled between two hens, was Mac.
>That is one picture I'll always wish I could have taken.

I wish you had, too. I'd have loved to see it. :-)

Signature

"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be
doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding.

:-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL
William Hamblen - 13 Jan 2005 01:37 GMT
>Could anyone living in Colarado tell me how cold your weather has been
>(minimum temp) up to now this winter.

Try http://www.noaa.gov.

Colorado is larger than the UK and temperatures vary.  They are
expecting 17 F (-9 C) in Denver tonight.
MaryL - 13 Jan 2005 03:16 GMT
> Could anyone living in Colarado tell me how cold your weather has been
> (minimum temp) up to now this winter.
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
> Tweed

I grew up in Ohio, and my parents raised chickens.  Also, my grandparents
were farmers, and they had a variety of chickens.  Temperatures in Colorado,
but parts of it would be similar to Ohio.  These chickens would need good
protection from winter weather, but much depends on what is meant by an
"insulated" building.  Ours had a very substantial chicken house with
concrete flooring.  There was no insulation in the walls or roof in the
sense of an insulated home.  However, we provided great quantities of  straw
for bedding, and that did serve as insulation.  In addition, as I said, this
was a substantial structure -- so air leaks would be minimum, but certainly
greater than in a person's home.  The chickens that my grandparents had were
kept in the barn -- again, a very sturdy structure with lots of straw for
bedding (and insulation).  Little chicks needed far more protection.  They
would have heated incubators, or we would occasionally even bring them into
our house (in boxes) if we had chicks early enough in the year that winter
weather would hit.

MaryL
CATherine - 13 Jan 2005 03:40 GMT
>Could anyone living in Colarado tell me how cold your weather has been
>(minimum temp) up to now this winter.

I live on the plains of Colorado near Limon. 12 years ago we had
chickens here. they survived fine. Although when it got -30, some of
them showed frostbite on combs. Our chicken shed is ancient; just a
layer of lumber for walls with an inner layer halfway up on the north
side and roof and walls layered with tin on the outside. The south
side is partially open with only chicken wire. But one wall has old
feed bags nailed to it for insulation. The nesting boxes have hay and
I remember I used to keep bales of hay in front of the chicken wire
side. So there was some cold and moving air in there; but with such a
low roof and small size of the room, the chickens were ok. The amount
of chickens in a given space, and the size of the space can be a
factor in conserving body heat. You don't want it too air-tight; we
lost some rabbits that way. The wind can cause suction of the air
inside and end up smothering livestock. Or they can get pneumonia. The
other side of the chickens was a room for goats. And I just
remembered, we had our firewood stacked on the north side of the
chicken house, which provided shelter from the northern wind. But the
big factor is the wind chill.

And then there are different breeds and sizes of chickens. Some winter
over better than others. I had two little banty roosters. they would
get in between the bigger chickens and stay cosy. Well fed, fat
chickens winter better than skinny ones. We kept our chickens
well-fed.

When we lived at Brighton farther north, in the 80's, we had a much
nicer chicken house and a lot more chickens. They were cosy even with
the Easter blizzard when the temp dropped to -38 that night.

But you don't say what part of Colorado she lives in. If she lives in
the mountains, that changes things. Altitude, for instance. Or the
north central part where they always have record temps for the state.
As for the OP, I would say insulate the hen house with bales of straw.
Cheap and very effective and part of the straw can be used for
flooring all winter. If she has a tin roof, put old tires on it. That
will keep it from rattling in the winds and will soak up sun and
radiate it into the roof at night. You can also use a red light bulb
to add heat. Do not use a regular bulb. That will keep the chickens
awake. they can't see the red. Do not use a heat lamp around hay.

Hope this info helps. Purrs,

--
CATherine
TBird - 13 Jan 2005 14:05 GMT
I'm in Northern Colorado and it has gotten to -10F at least one night this
winter so far.  We've blanketed the horses twice, though the second time
they really didn't need it.

Our neighbor has chickens but I don't know if they lost any.   Where else
would you keep chickens EXCEPT outside?  I mean, they have hen houses, but
give me a break...

Ever smelled a chicken?  NOT bringing them in my house, not even my garage.
Those things are disgusting!

TBird<---- who lined Smudges bed with piles of fleece.

> Could anyone living in Colarado tell me how cold your weather has been
> (minimum temp) up to now this winter.
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Tweed
 
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