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I am so disgusted!

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badwilson - 05 Jan 2005 11:23 GMT
http://www.repubblica.it/popup/servizi/2004/phuket/index.html

--
Britta
Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that's
covered in fur!
Check out pictures of Vino at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album
Helen Wheels - 05 Jan 2005 12:16 GMT
> http://www.repubblica.it/popup/servizi/2004/phuket/index.html
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Check out pictures of Vino at:
> http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

My first response is EEEWWWWW...

But on the other hand, maybe there isn't much else these folks can do
unless they have a medical background or can drive a bulldozer (assuming
there are enough available or something like that.  Quite a few of them
have young kids with them. I wouldn't think it'd be too easy for them to
get on an earlier flight home right now, or even to another part of the
country. But I've never even been in Thailand and realise I could just
be babbling rubbish really.....

You're a lot closer to it all than we are. What are the local news media
saying about aid efforts? Is there a general perception that aid is
getting to where it's needed?
Karen Chuplis - 05 Jan 2005 12:24 GMT
>> http://www.repubblica.it/popup/servizi/2004/phuket/index.html
>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> saying about aid efforts? Is there a general perception that aid is
> getting to where it's needed?

I would be interested too. I couldn't do it. I'd come spend money and be
there, but I would want to do something. Still, on our news (CNN) Thailand
seems pretty desparate to have just this happen. They want tourists to
continue to come. THere was one lady who says her staff look at her in fear
that people won't come and what will she do (ie. close down)? But I would be
interested in unofficial feeling.
Cheryl Perkins - 05 Jan 2005 12:41 GMT
> I would be interested too. I couldn't do it. I'd come spend money and be
> there, but I would want to do something. Still, on our news (CNN) Thailand
> seems pretty desparate to have just this happen. They want tourists to
> continue to come. THere was one lady who says her staff look at her in fear
> that people won't come and what will she do (ie. close down)? But I would be
> interested in unofficial feeling.

I imagine there are as many unofficial feelings as there are people. Have
you ever noticed when your local radio or TV station asks two or three
'people in the street' what they think of a local issue, they often get a
much narrower range of opinion than you have within your family and
workplace?

I really hate reading stuff into things. As the previous poster said, I
don't know if, in fact, there's anything those people in the photo *can*
do! Once the immediate danger is over, there's not a lot someone
without training can do unless they at least speak the language.
Even carting garbage off the road or passing out supplies requires
the ability to ask what needs doing, where to put stuff, etc., plus
a certain amount of physical strength. And if you can't leave and can't
help, sitting in your room instead of out in the sun isn't going to make
any difference to anyone. And maybe they did help, and are taking a break,
or are suffering from shock. I simply don't know.

Signature

Cheryl

mlbriggs - 06 Jan 2005 06:00 GMT
>>> http://www.repubblica.it/popup/servizi/2004/phuket/index.html
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> that people won't come and what will she do (ie. close down)? But I would be
> interested in unofficial feeling.

Are we certain these are not "before" pictures?  The beaches look clean
and no evidence of damage that I can see.
jmcquown - 06 Jan 2005 09:03 GMT
>>>> http://www.repubblica.it/popup/servizi/2004/phuket/index.html
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> clean
> and no evidence of damage that I can see.

I'm pretty sure the guys walking around with big trash bags cleaning up palm
fronds and a big bucket loader parked next to the beach aren't what you
normally see at Phuket.

BTW, some guys need to learn to wear swim trunks that fit their body types
;)

Jill
badwilson - 06 Jan 2005 11:08 GMT
> >>> http://www.repubblica.it/popup/servizi/2004/phuket/index.html
> >>>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> Are we certain these are not "before" pictures?  The beaches look clean
> and no evidence of damage that I can see.

Umm, you didn't see the huge destroyed building in the background of
the first picture?  Or the one with the beached and beat up boat right
next to where the guy is lying?
--
Britta
Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that's
covered in fur!
Check out pictures of Vino at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album
mlbriggs - 11 Aug 2005 00:41 GMT
>>>> http://www.repubblica.it/popup/servizi/2004/phuket/index.html
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> Are we certain these are not "before" pictures?  The beaches look clean
> and no evidence of damage that I can see.

This old post popped up out of nowhere.  Why does my computer do this?
MLB
Yowie - 05 Jan 2005 22:45 GMT
> > http://www.repubblica.it/popup/servizi/2004/phuket/index.html
> >
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> country. But I've never even been in Thailand and realise I could just
> be babbling rubbish really.....

One argument I've heard is that one of hte best things tourists can do if
they can't offer immediate help (in the form of medical assistance etc) it
to just keep on being tourists. Why? Because they plug in a sh*tload of
money into the economy, and by continuing to show its possible to holiday
there, they are giving out powerful advertising that its still a place worth
holidaying in. Considering that the local economies of alot of small towns
and villages are pretty much entirely dependant on the tourist trade, not
only have they suffered from the immediate devestation, if tourists don't
come back, they've also lost their means of livelihood. It has to be worth
their while to re-build the expensive infrastructure that tourists want (ie,
big fancy hotels etc etc) and if it looks like the tourist industry is going
to dry up, there is no point re-building such facilities.

So as much as it seems disgusting that rich (in relative terms) foriegners
are kicking up their heels in luxury when a large number of people have
suffered total devastation, they may well be doing the survivors a favour -
at least in the long term.

Yowie
Karen Chuplis - 05 Jan 2005 23:48 GMT
>>> http://www.repubblica.it/popup/servizi/2004/phuket/index.html
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> Yowie

I heard 70% of reservations were cancelled there after the Tsunami and they
were trying to encourage them to go to other resorts, but I think people are
afraid. But wow. 70% is huge. South Dakota would collapse if that happened
during their high tourist season.
badwilson - 06 Jan 2005 02:15 GMT
> > http://www.repubblica.it/popup/servizi/2004/phuket/index.html
> >
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> saying about aid efforts? Is there a general perception that aid is
> getting to where it's needed?

Well, I can't watch the local news media because it's in Thai.  So I'm
just watching CNN Asia and they don't say too much about it.  But I've
been to the area and it's not the same as in some of the other places.
Phuket is huge and there are tons of roads and I'm sure that the aid
is getting there.  The Thai military has been doing a great job and
I've heard them encourage people to give to the relief effort in other
countries instead because they have it under control.
Thailand is very westernized and has a great bus system and trains and
many small, cheap domestic airlines.  People do not have to loll about
right next to the destruction.  I think they could at least go to
another area.  It's not like hotels are expensive here.  You can go to
another beautiful resort for less than $50/night and basic
accommodation would be less than $20.  Getting there would cost
minimal money too.  It just seems crass to me to be lounging around
with all this destruction around.
But I have heard that they want the tourists to keep coming.  I worry
too about how this will affect the tourist industry.  Many people
depend on it.  It just doesn't seem right that they are going to
*right next door* to the destruction.  Personally, I couldn't do it.
--
Britta
Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that's
covered in fur!
Check out pictures of Vino at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album
Mary - 05 Jan 2005 12:45 GMT
> http://www.repubblica.it/popup/servizi/2004/phuket/index.html
>
> --

I see what you mean. On the other hand, tourism is nearly 100% of their
livelihood. News reports showed many natives rushing to try to get things
ready to attract tourists again.

(Face it, the types who go to the islands to fancy resorts that border
severely impoverished native areas are not the most sensitive souls.)
MaryL - 05 Jan 2005 19:25 GMT
> http://www.repubblica.it/popup/servizi/2004/phuket/index.html
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Check out pictures of Vino at:
> http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

I am disgusted, too -- but my disgust is directed more at tourists than at
some of the locals who worked desperately to "keep up appearances" to keep
the flow of tourism coming (that is, tourists who could actually bake
themselves in the sun while scenes of incredible death and destruction
surround them).  ABC reported last night that some meteorologists in the
area did attempt to sound some warnings, but were told to keep quiet out of
fear that it would frighten off the tourists.  If so, then whoever made that
decision receives my "top disgust" award!

MaryL
Shiral - 05 Jan 2005 20:43 GMT
Mine too!  Not that I want Thailand to suffer anymore than it must from
lack of tourist dollars in view of the cost of cleaning up, but for
now, when people are trying to restore order after the disaster, I
would think it would be more helpful to stay out of the way in another
country altogether, if you're not willing or able to help. Take a trip
to Thailand, yes, but take it later, when things are not so chaotic!

Speaking as a potential tourist, I'd rather have had the warning "It's
not safe to come to Thailand right now" rather than be swept out to sea
by a 15 foot wall of water with my whole family, and possibly drown.
Melissa
Karen - 05 Jan 2005 21:26 GMT
> Mine too!  Not that I want Thailand to suffer anymore than it must from
> lack of tourist dollars in view of the cost of cleaning up, but for
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> by a 15 foot wall of water with my whole family, and possibly drown.
> Melissa

Well, there really wasn't any precident for that. I can't honestly fault
them. When the worst thing you've had happen in hundreds of years are
extremely predictable floods, I can see why the entire region was taken by
surprise.
Kreisleriana - 05 Jan 2005 20:44 GMT
>http://www.repubblica.it/popup/servizi/2004/phuket/index.html

I agree, it looks disgusting.  But perhaps to local people, it looks
like $$$  -- which is what they need right now.

Tourism is what-- 1/4 or 1/3 of the country's economy?  That is going
to suffer, anyway.

Chinatown, NYC still has not recovered from the hit it took after
9/11.  If tourists had kept right on coming, people there would be in
a lot better off at this point.

Now, would *I* have the "front" to lie on the beach like that?  I
doubt it.   But if I lived there, if someone was able to sleep on *my*
beach, I'd happilt take their money.

Theresa
Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh
My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com
Jo Firey - 05 Jan 2005 23:22 GMT
I read something today in the Readers Digest attributed to Richard Avedon.

Pictures are accurate.  But they are not truth.

I'm guessing the people working at the resort are very glad there people are
there.  At least someone will be bringing home a cash paycheck at the end of
the week.  And I would hope some very large tips as well.

Sometimes the best way to help someone is to allow them to help themselves.
I don't see what anyone would gain by these people staying home.

Jo
> http://www.repubblica.it/popup/servizi/2004/phuket/index.html
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Check out pictures of Vino at:
> http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album
MaryL - 06 Jan 2005 01:33 GMT
>I read something today in the Readers Digest attributed to Richard Avedon.
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Jo

Yes, the necessity for the living to find some way to go on living is what
leads to my somewhat ambivalent feelings -- but it is also what lead to my
statement that my disgust is directed more at tourists than at
some of the locals.  I seriously doubt that the tourists involved are coming
at this time in an attempt to "help the local economy."  Ironically, they
probably will help the local economy -- but I'm not sure even that staement
is correct at this very early stage because resources are so strained in
attempts just to get basic food to those left devastated by the water.

MaryL
mlbriggs - 06 Jan 2005 05:55 GMT
>>I read something today in the Readers Digest attributed to Richard Avedon.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> MaryL

Is there anyway to tell when the pictures were taken?
MaryL - 06 Jan 2005 11:17 GMT
>>>I read something today in the Readers Digest attributed to Richard
>>>Avedon.
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> Is there anyway to tell when the pictures were taken?

Take a look at the rubble in the background.

MaryL
mlbriggs - 07 Jan 2005 01:00 GMT
>>>>I read something today in the Readers Digest attributed to Richard
>>>>Avedon.
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> MaryL

I'll have to admit your eyes are better than mine.   MLB
MaryL - 07 Jan 2005 01:40 GMT
>>> Is there anyway to tell when the pictures were taken?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> I'll have to admit your eyes are better than mine.   MLB

Well, there are a number of pictures at the link supplied.  Rubble can be
seen in some (but not all) of them.  For example, the first picture that
opens shows several people stretched out in the sun.  In the background are
palm trees and further back some buildings.  Look more carefully at the base
of the buildings.  There you see litter piled high -- bus so densely packed
that it took me awhile to realize what I was looking at.  Other pictures
depict people lying on the beach while others are gathering debris and
placing it in garbage bags; those scenes are not as obvious, but the whole
sequence paints a disturbing picture.

Here is the link that Britta supplied.  When I click on this link, the photo
I am talking about is the first one to open.
http://www.repubblica.it/popup/servizi/2004/phuket/index.html

MaryL
Yoj - 07 Jan 2005 01:32 GMT
> >>>I read something today in the Readers Digest attributed to Richard
> >>>Avedon.
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> MaryL

It was obvious to me that the beach part was taken after the disaster.
However, we have no way of knowing whether or not that photo was faked.  It
could easily have been.  The camera may not lie, but the finished product
can and often does.

Joy
MaryL - 07 Jan 2005 01:47 GMT
<snip>

>> > Is there anyway to tell when the pictures were taken?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Joy

That's true.  I would actually like it if these did prove to be
forgeries/composites -- I'd rather read about one dreadful person who would
concoct these images than to envision the numbers of insensitive people
shown in the photos.

MaryL
Tish Silberbauer - 07 Jan 2005 04:03 GMT
>It was obvious to me that the beach part was taken after the disaster.
>However, we have no way of knowing whether or not that photo was faked.  It
>could easily have been.  The camera may not lie, but the finished product
>can and often does.
>
>Joy

It occurs to me also that some of the people resting on the beach may
be rescue workers taking an hour or two of rest prior to getting back
into it.  I can imagine that there are probably thousands of rescue
workers in the area and they can't be working 24/7 and might
conceivably take a break by sunbathing for a little while.  The
sunlight is so bright there that their halos would be a bit difficult
to see :^)

Tish
Yoj - 07 Jan 2005 05:42 GMT
> >It was obvious to me that the beach part was taken after the disaster.
> >However, we have no way of knowing whether or not that photo was faked.  It
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Tish

I like that the best of all the possibilities discussed.  Since there is no
way we can absolutely know the truth, I choose to believe this version.

Joy
 
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