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Happy 2005 All

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:-\)Liz - 01 Jan 2005 08:13 GMT
Happy 2005 To Us One And All!!!!!!! We ALL can use a GOOD!!!!!!!!!
Year!.....Mark E. be glad the only # I still have of yours starts with a
817- 319 and that...ALAS!!!!!! it wasn't you I got at midnight!!!!! :-(
Don't Know Who It Was..... But I Wished  Them Happy New Year as well!!!!
: -) Liz
Stormin Mormon - 01 Jan 2005 18:11 GMT
Got to start writing 05 on checks, now. I'll forget for most of a month.
Well, we survived another year.

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Christopher A. Young
This space intentionally left blank
    www.lds.org
    www.mormons.com

Happy 2005 To Us One And All!!!!!!! We ALL can use a GOOD!!!!!!!!!
Year!.....Mark E. be glad the only # I still have of yours starts with a
817- 319 and that...ALAS!!!!!! it wasn't you I got at midnight!!!!! :-(
Don't Know Who It Was..... But I Wished  Them Happy New Year as well!!!!
: -) Liz
Christina Websell - 01 Jan 2005 21:02 GMT
> Got to start writing 05 on checks, now. I'll forget for most of a month.
> Well, we survived another year.

150,000+ didn't.

Tweed
Seanette Blaylock - 01 Jan 2005 22:54 GMT
"Christina Websell" <spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> had some very
interesting things to say about Re: Happy 2005 All:

>> Got to start writing 05 on checks, now. I'll forget for most of a month.
>> Well, we survived another year.
>150,000+ didn't.

So it's not something to be pleased about that billions did? Also, I'm
sure the worldwide number of deaths in 2004 was MUCH more than the
figure you give. Why is it that only some of those millions of dead
are of concern and all the rest are ignored?

Signature

"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be
doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding.

:-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL
Christina Websell - 01 Jan 2005 23:44 GMT
> "Christina Websell" <spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> had some very
> interesting things to say about Re: Happy 2005 All:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> So it's not something to be pleased about that billions did?

Yes. of course.

> Also, I'm
> sure the worldwide number of deaths in 2004 was MUCH more than the
> figure you give. Why is it that only some of those millions of dead
> are of concern and all the rest are ignored?

You are quite right.  People I know have died this year, through old age or
disease.  This happens all over the world, all the time.  No-one remarks
about it. It has to happen.
However... I cannot be alone, surely, in mourning the dead from the tsumani.
So many people in the prime of their lives.  So many children.  All in one
go.

Christopher's post struck a raw note in me about surviving another year.
Sorry if I offended you, it's just what I thought at the time, while
watching the awful images on the TV.

Tweed
Seanette Blaylock - 02 Jan 2005 02:18 GMT
"Christina Websell" <spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> had some very
interesting things to say about Re: Happy 2005 All:

>You are quite right.  People I know have died this year, through old age or
>disease.  This happens all over the world, all the time.  No-one remarks
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Sorry if I offended you, it's just what I thought at the time, while
>watching the awful images on the TV.

What bothered me was that it sounded like you were rebuking him for
being grateful for surviving a tough year, and that only some dead are
worthy of mourning while others just get dismissed. Makes it sound
like some people are more valuable than others, which bugs me.

Signature

"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be
doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding.

:-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL
David Stevenson - 02 Jan 2005 13:16 GMT
>"Christina Websell" <spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> had some very
>interesting things to say about Re: Happy 2005 All:
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>worthy of mourning while others just get dismissed. Makes it sound
>like some people are more valuable than others, which bugs me.

  Since the majority of the world - ie, anyone who thinks the media
portray news - think that people who die spectacularly matter more it is
not surprising to hear that view.

Signature

David Stevenson              Storypage:  http://blakjak.com/sty_menu.htm
Liverpool, England, UK         <cat2@blakjak.com>         Emails welcome
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Karen Chuplis - 02 Jan 2005 14:43 GMT
>> "Christina Websell" <spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> had some very
>> interesting things to say about Re: Happy 2005 All:
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> portray news - think that people who die spectacularly matter more it is
> not surprising to hear that view.

Interesting. I keep seeing things like this on Usenet, and I completely
disagree. It is not that they matter more, but I really don't think it's
inappropriate to address the enormity of this situation. It is unequaled in
modern times, even with the Bangledesh flooding back in the 70's, this is
much larger in scope. In my mind, it ranks right under a small asteroid
hitting the earth. So then, is it so wrong to boggle at the scope? To ask
for people to be generous? Not that I don't think the media likes a good
story that they can drag out, but this is different at least in my mind in
that I think it is important people DO see how enormous this is. This
summer, a small town of 300 people near me was destroyed by a tornado. The
scene there looked very much like this one except for one thing. There were
not bodies strewn everywhere and the towns next to it while damaged, did not
similarly lay in rubble and were very much there for immediate help.  A very
sad even yes. But, our city sent buses and the refugees were here within an
hour. They had homes to go to, hotels, shelters, many relatives, few lives
were lost (I believe two people died and, yes, that was tragic and I
actually cried for these people) and the town began rebuilding almost
immediately. In this instance of Asia, there would be no nearby city that
was not similarly obliterated, no where to go, no where to get much help,
particularly in Indonesia and Summatra, for days. 1 in four people involved
in the event are dead. Not only that but there is no equipment to help you
with all the carnage and rubble. Instead of trucks rolling in the next
morning with National Guard and hundreds of volunteers as here in the cases
of a tornado event or hurricane event, it takes days to get into many of
these places. They have lost family, homes and livlihoods on a HUGE scale in
a few minutes. And unlike a country like the US that had an existing strong
infrastructure, it's going to be a long time to get a semblence of normalacy
to return in these places that had existing difficulties in health and,
indeed, simply access. That is what I see portrayed in the media. Yes, death
is a part of life and happens all the time, but we at least have family, or
jobs to turn to for help, for an outlet for grief. If your whole reason for
living is suddenly swept away and not just for one person but for tens of
thousands in the matter of minutes, yes, it bears talking about and is a
remarkable event. When entire families, in the thousands, are wiped off the
earth and not just one family member, it bears international attention. It
is an historic event. It is tragedy magnified thousands of times. It does
not negate personal tragedy that people suffer everyday, but it is certainly
something that provokes thought, concern and hopefully compassion from those
more fortunate. I can guarantee you that people here who lost their town
here, and people in Florida who went through the hurricanes probably think
that the coverage is warranted and that they were the lucky ones in the
scope of their tragedy. I ask all of you, in your lifetime, have tens of
thousands of people perished in one instant? People who came from all
corners of the earth? I can think of only one that comes close and it was
9/11, which still did not come close in numbers. And even in that instant,
there was help to go to immediately. I think this Tsuanmi event is worthy of
the coverage it has gotten and of the support it is receiving.

In keeping with the original thought of Happy 2005, it easy for me to say, I
think I will certainly have a happy 2005 because I have a home and a job and
family and cats. And I have a new ruler by which to measure my "bad days".
David Stevenson - 02 Jan 2005 17:16 GMT
>I think this Tsuanmi event is worthy of
>the coverage it has gotten and of the support it is receiving.

  Some of the coverage no doubt is.  But when someone tells me that they
cannot stop watching dead bodies it seems macabre, to put it politely.

  Support?  Yes, that's different.  Of course I have no problem with
giving support.  But remember what the media are going to say over the
coming months:

It was the fault of ........ that more people died than needed to.
... gave more support than ... did so ... is better.
Here is a picture of someone grieving for their loss - enjoy.
This proves that .../.../.../... is the only correct religion.

  If this world ever wants to become civilised I think that they need to
make the media civilised first.

Signature

David Stevenson              Storypage:  http://blakjak.com/sty_menu.htm
Liverpool, England, UK         <cat2@blakjak.com>         Emails welcome
Nanki Poo: SI O+W B 11 Y L+ W++ C+ I T+ A- E H++ V- F Q P+ B+ PA+ PL SC
Minke: SI W+Cp B 2 Y L W+ C++ I T A- E H++ V++ F- Q- P B PA+ PL+ SC-

CatNipped - 02 Jan 2005 17:28 GMT
>    If this world ever wants to become civilised I think that they need to
> make the media civilised first.

Truer words were never written!

Hugs,

CatNipped

> --
> David Stevenson              Storypage:  http://blakjak.com/sty_menu.htm
> Liverpool, England, UK         <cat2@blakjak.com>         Emails welcome
> Nanki Poo: SI O+W B 11 Y L+ W++ C+ I T+ A- E H++ V- F Q P+ B+ PA+ PL SC
> Minke: SI W+Cp B 2 Y L W+ C++ I T A- E H++ V++ F- Q- P B PA+ PL+ SC-
Karen Chuplis - 02 Jan 2005 17:40 GMT
>> If this world ever wants to become civilised I think that they need to
>> make the media civilised first.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> CatNipped

Well, I do have to agree that the media needs a reboot.
Cheryl Perkins - 02 Jan 2005 17:53 GMT
<snip>
>    If this world ever wants to become civilised I think that they need to
> make the media civilised first.

Not really. The media only does what sells. It's humans, or at least an
awful lot of us, who want to watch terrible accidents and listen to silly
superficial explanations and accusations afterwards.

It's the humans who need civilization. We're the ones who create and work
in media, and who buy products from the companies who support it with
advertising revenue.

Signature

Cheryl

CatNipped - 02 Jan 2005 18:27 GMT
> <snip>
> >    If this world ever wants to become civilised I think that they need to
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> in media, and who buy products from the companies who support it with
> advertising revenue.

I don't know Cheryl.  Everyone I talk to abhors the media and the current
way news is covered.  Yes, we watch it, but what other choice is there
available?  I want to hear about the bad things, yes, there might be
something I could do to help.  But I would also *dearly* love to hear about
the teenagers who got together to raise money for a charitable organization,
or the community who poured out donations and volunteers to help out their
neighbors (even when their neighbors are in another country).

I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way - in fact I think I'm in
the majority - and I think the media has a serious case of "smarter than
thou" and think that the public is far more stupid, greedy, voyeuristic, and
base than we actually are - and then they try to pander to that
misconception when in reality they are pandering to their own warped values.

Hugs,

CatNipped

> --
> Cheryl
David Stevenson - 03 Jan 2005 01:06 GMT
>I don't know Cheryl.  Everyone I talk to abhors the media and the current
>way news is covered.  Yes, we watch it, but what other choice is there
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>base than we actually are - and then they try to pander to that
>misconception when in reality they are pandering to their own warped values.

  Interestingly enough, the one type of media which seemed not to pander
to nasty things was the state-controlled media of the mid years of the
USSR.  Their 'news' was all about achievement.

  I think sports reporting is also interesting.  While they are happy to
report bad things you are much more likely to get mentioned for
achievement in sports than in anything else: the balance is different.

Signature

David Stevenson              Storypage:  http://blakjak.com/sty_menu.htm
Liverpool, England, UK         <cat2@blakjak.com>         Emails welcome
Nanki Poo: SI O+W B 11 Y L+ W++ C+ I T+ A- E H++ V- F Q P+ B+ PA+ PL SC
Minke: SI W+Cp B 2 Y L W+ C++ I T A- E H++ V++ F- Q- P B PA+ PL+ SC-

Cheryl Perkins - 03 Jan 2005 11:31 GMT
> I don't know Cheryl.  Everyone I talk to abhors the media and the current
> way news is covered.  Yes, we watch it, but what other choice is there
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> or the community who poured out donations and volunteers to help out their
> neighbors (even when their neighbors are in another country).

We do get 'feel good' stories on the local news about various community
and charitable endeavours. And I know many people agree with you. I
wouldn't agree entirely, but I probably - certainly - don't get the same
news coverage you do, so in a way we're comparing apples and oranges.

> I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way - in fact I think I'm in
> the majority - and I think the media has a serious case of "smarter than
> thou" and think that the public is far more stupid, greedy, voyeuristic, and
> base than we actually are - and then they try to pander to that
> misconception when in reality they are pandering to their own warped values.

Yes, but I always find it more interesting to look at what people do
rather than what they say. I read years ago that surveys of what magasines
people claim to read show much higher readership of literary and serious
news magasines and much lower readership of tabloids than are born out by
sales figures! And I can't criticize the reality shows without revealing
that I've watched at least some parts of some of them!

There are many sources for news. I get relatively little of mine from TV,
more from the radio and magazines, and some from online sites. I'm spoilt
for choice, really, and if I think something is over-emphasizing horrific
pictures, like a show I started watching on TV last night, I turn it off.

I think most news shows are designed to make money for their employers,
and if what they are doing wasn't attracting viewers, they'd stop. The
only exceptions would be public broadcasters, and they have a different
set of priorities to balance - they have to appear independent of the
government of the country while not getting so independent that their
funding will be cut. And they have to, simultaneously, attract *some*
viewers without actually cutting too much into private broadcasters'
audience, since that is 'unfair competition'. But for the great majority
of news programs, the ones in the private sector, news is business, and if
they didn't have viewers who liked what they are doing, they'd be out of
business. Particularly in markets with more than one station.

This doesn't mean *all* viewers (like you and me) like it. Just that
there's enough who do to buy the products that pay the bills.

Signature

Cheryl

Christina Websell - 02 Jan 2005 21:34 GMT
>>> "Christina Websell" <spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> had some very
>>> interesting things to say about Re: Happy 2005 All:
[quoted text clipped - 93 lines]
> and
> family and cats. And I have a new ruler by which to measure my "bad days".

Thank you, Karen.  You have understood what I was trying to say, and I
didn't make a very good job of it myself.

Tweed
David Stevenson - 02 Jan 2005 00:02 GMT
>"Christina Websell" <spamfree@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> had some very
>interesting things to say about Re: Happy 2005 All:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>figure you give. Why is it that only some of those millions of dead
>are of concern and all the rest are ignored?

 It is the modern view of what is news.

 If twelve people die in separate road accidents in England in a day
[actually, that's a pretty good day] it is not news-worthy.  If twelve
die in one accident it is.  I do not think that the relatives of people
who die care whether it is in a one person accident or a multiple person
accident.

Signature

David Stevenson              Storypage:  http://blakjak.com/sty_menu.htm
Liverpool, England, UK         <cat2@blakjak.com>         Emails welcome
Nanki Poo: SI O+W B 11 Y L+ W++ C+ I T+ A- E H++ V- F Q P+ B+ PA+ PL SC
Minke: SI W+Cp B 2 Y L W+ C++ I T A- E H++ V++ F- Q- P B PA+ PL+ SC-

Stormin Mormon - 02 Jan 2005 13:58 GMT
Good reminder. I didn't write 150,000 on any checks.

Signature

Christopher A. Young
This space intentionally left blank
    www.lds.org
    www.mormons.com

> Got to start writing 05 on checks, now. I'll forget for most of a month.
> Well, we survived another year.

150,000+ didn't.

Tweed
Adrian - 02 Jan 2005 17:55 GMT
>> Got to start writing 05 on checks, now. I'll forget for most of a
>> month. Well, we survived another year.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Tweed

Which is also roughly the number of children that have died in Africa in
the last week. :-(
Signature

Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera)
A house is not a home, without a cat.

 
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