Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / January 2005
Double standard
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jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 26 Dec 2004 23:06 GMT Why is it that someone can post a very long rant against "America-bashing", and get all kinds of supportive, you-go-girl, "me-too" posts in response, and not one single person says "Hey, this isn't a political newsgroup, this is a NICE forum, can't you keep the political rants off this ng?" (I am not implying that, myself, by the way.)
But if someone has a different point of view - not necessarily a "bashing" point of view, just a critical one, then suddenly it's not "nice" to be talking about politics here.
I'm starting to realize that the people on this ng don't really feel that political posts are inappropriate or unwelcome here. It's just that certain points of view are not welcome here. A double standard, that's all it is.
Joyce
John Doe - 26 Dec 2004 23:19 GMT Off-topic troll.
>Path: newssvr12.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm05.news.prodigy.com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!feed.news.sonic.net!typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail >From: jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Joyce Sherry - 27 Dec 2004 06:24 GMT >Off-topic troll. Joyce is a long-time friend and poster on this group. She is not a troll.
Sherry
John Doe - 07 Jan 2005 00:08 GMT >Joyce is a long-time friend and poster on this group. She is not a >troll. In my opinion, a long time poster should know and practice the rules enough to get them right and show respect for others, unless maybe she has a physical or mental infirmity which makes that impossible.
AOL, reference line deleting troll.
>Sherry > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Message-ID: <20041227012458.08238.00002500@mb-m04.aol.com> >Xref: newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com rec.pets.cats.anecdotes:268356 John Doe - 07 Jan 2005 00:13 GMT See the other reply:
>From: sriddles @aol.comkitty (Sherry ) >Message-ID: <20041227012458.08238.00002500 @mb-m04.aol.com Adrian - 28 Dec 2004 14:34 GMT > Off-topic troll. Are you? And how long have you been posting here? Joyce has been a valued member of this group for a long time.
 Signature Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.
John Doe - 07 Jan 2005 00:12 GMT >Are you? And how long have you been posting here? Joyce has been a >valued member of this group for a long time. I'm not politically correct enough to believe that because someone has been around for a while they have a right to step on others. On the contrary, they should be held to a higher standard.
Troll.
CatNipped - 26 Dec 2004 23:30 GMT > Why is it that someone can post a very long rant against "America-bashing", > and get all kinds of supportive, you-go-girl, "me-too" posts in response, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Joyce I apologize, Joyce. I really shouldn't have posted an off-topic political rant. But it's not as though I had absolutely no reason for doing so.
In my defense, I was reacting to another post that was extremely derogative and on top of that months and months of posts that have been derogative. The newsgroup has been quite open to off-topic rants in the past, so I didn't feel entirely unwelcome in protesting a growing trend, not just in RL but here in rpca as well.
If this group did keep political rants off then there would have been no reason for my particular rant. The problem is that America bashing has become so profound and so pervasive that people don't even react to it as a political rant all its own - they just assume it's OK to denigrate an entire nation of people and get no adverse reaction from doing so. Therefore, I don't entirely understand the "double standard "remark, since I've been seeing quite a few posts that are politically slanted in a quite different way than what I expressed in my "rant" - which, again, was the entire reason for my "rant".
Hugs,
CatNipped
dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers - 27 Dec 2004 10:19 GMT >The problem is that America bashing has >become so profound and so pervasive that people don't even react to it as a >political rant all its own - they just assume it's OK to denigrate an entire >nation of people and get no adverse reaction from doing so. Bear in mind that some "America-bashing" is definitely *not* bashing an entire nation. It often is passing less than affectionate comment on the current president and his political direction, as those who are anti-Bush can differentiate between him and American people.
Cheers, helen s
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Howard Berkowitz - 27 Dec 2004 15:27 GMT > >The problem is that America bashing has > >become so profound and so pervasive that people don't even react to it [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > president and his political direction, as those who are anti-Bush can > differentiate between him and American people. Speaking as one who did not vote for or support Bush, I find many posts do NOT make that distinction. Further complicating the situation is a view I hold, as do many centrist USAians, that Bush 43 is the President, and it would be foolhardy for the world to seek failure of all his actions. Instead, moderating them may be a more rational course.
Sheenah - 27 Dec 2004 00:34 GMT > Why is it that someone can post a very long rant against "America-bashing", > and get all kinds of supportive, you-go-girl, "me-too" posts in response, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Joyce This conversation has made me think about my inability to get folk to always do what I would like them to do and I think it right to share my thoughts.
As a result of one of the lessons I've learnt while receiving help to overcome alcohol dependency, I have come to better understand the limit of my power over people. In the context of postings to NGs, when I accept my powerlessness/inability to stop anyone from posting anything that they want to say and exercise my power of choice over what to read, then I am doing the best I can to maintain my serenity and to better enjoy the time I spend on them.
Sheenah
Tish Silberbauer - 27 Dec 2004 02:01 GMT >This conversation has made me think about my inability to get folk to >always do what I would like them to do and I think it right to share [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Sheenah Well said Sheenah. Sometimes it is tempting to take NG messages personally, but after a time I remember that they are not directed at me or my surroundings/country/occupation and are simply an expression of someone else's state of mind / opinions / culture / whatever and should be approached as an interesting aspect of another person's personality rather than a putative attack on myself. You just expressed all of that much more eloquently.
OB cats: I bought the kits a catnip plant for Christmas - one growing in a pot. I brought it into the house to show them, with some trepidation (what if they were violent "drunks"?), but all three sniffed it and ignored it. [hrumpf!] I'll let the plant grow a bit and will then harvest some and dry it. Maybe they'll be more interested in the dried leaves. OTOH, they thought the paper that was cast off after unwrapping our hoomin presents was the *Best Thing Ever*! tee hee - we haven't tidied up because the snippets are having such fun in the debris! (Ted is, as usual, sleeping)
Tish
Sheenah - 27 Dec 2004 02:18 GMT > I bought the kits a catnip plant for Christmas - one growing > in a pot. I brought it into the house to show them, with some > trepidation (what if they were violent "drunks"?), but all three > sniffed it and ignored it. [hrumpf!] Tish,
I dare you to leave it with them overnight :^)
> OTOH, they thought the paper that was > cast off after unwrapping our hoomin presents was the *Best Thing > Ever*! tee hee - we haven't tidied up because the snippets are having > such fun in the debris! (Ted is, as usual, sleeping) Could they have more ? Dee Dee's bored with ours - but not with the empty boxes :^
Sheenah
Tish Silberbauer - 27 Dec 2004 02:26 GMT >> I bought the kits a catnip plant for Christmas - one growing >> in a pot. I brought it into the house to show them, with some [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I dare you to leave it with them overnight :^) The poor wee plant is only a few inches tall, so I daren't leave it where they can get at it until it's managed to grow a bit :^)
>> OTOH, they thought the paper that was >> cast off after unwrapping our hoomin presents was the *Best Thing [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Sheenah We received several boxes through the post (one advantage of having a geographically dispersed family), so the kits had both paper and boxes to play with and, joy of joys, paper *in* boxes!! I suppose we'll have to tidy up soon as we're having a few friends over here on Thursday, but in the mean time we sit and giggle at Spock playing "king of the castle" from inside a box with Persephone storming the battlements from the outside, then a quick switch and reversed roles. Spock also loves tunnelling and seems to derive endless joy from burrowing into a bag full of paper, so he can "bury" himself in it and ambush Persphone as she wanders by.
In most of their games, Spock is the Evil Genius and Persphone is the rube, although she's always willing to Give It A Go, even if she doesn't quite understand the rules.
Tish
OU812? - 28 Dec 2004 02:55 GMT >>This conversation has made me think about my inability to get folk to >>always do what I would like them to do and I think it right to share [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Tish My kitties are uninterested in the plant itself as well, but go positively mad for the dried leaves. They DO enjoy nibbling on the spider plants however....
Kristy who had to put the spider plants up
Howard Berkowitz - 28 Dec 2004 03:12 GMT > My kitties are uninterested in the plant itself as well, but go > positively mad for the dried leaves. They DO enjoy nibbling on the > spider plants however.... I was always puzzled by that (although I know some that love the plant). Then, it occurred to me that there are human culinary herbs that are useful both in fresh and dried form, such as sage. Dried sage isn't worse than fresh sage -- it's just a quite different flavor. I've made meals where I used fresh and dried in different dishes.
*sigh* I didn't do an herb garden this year, so I don't have some of my specialty herbs, such as pineapple sage. That doesn't dry well, but freezes decently, and has a remarkable flavor. It's also one of those plants where I debate when to harvest, as it has beautiful flowers if allowed to bloom.
Jo Firey - 28 Dec 2004 03:54 GMT >> My kitties are uninterested in the plant itself as well, but go >> positively mad for the dried leaves. They DO enjoy nibbling on the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > plants where I debate when to harvest, as it has beautiful flowers if > allowed to bloom. We seldom have any problem with the cats bothering the catnip we grow outside. They don't get excited until leaves and stems get mashed, releasing the scent. There is a small plant in the kitchen window right now. They aren't interested. But if I pick off a few leaves and rub them between my fingers they will come running.
Jo
Jo
Cheryl Perkins - 28 Dec 2004 13:20 GMT > We seldom have any problem with the cats bothering the catnip we grow > outside. They don't get excited until leaves and stems get mashed, > releasing the scent. There is a small plant in the kitchen window right > now. They aren't interested. But if I pick off a few leaves and rub them > between my fingers they will come running. In my extremely limited experience with growing catnip outside, at some point a branch must be mashed, because the bush immediately becomes an attraction for what must surely be every cat within a 10 km radius, and the next thing I know I have a dust bowl in the back yard. I don't know why that plant isn't an endangered species, unless there is some cat-less location where it grows!
 Signature Cheryl
jmcquown - 28 Dec 2004 15:29 GMT >> We seldom have any problem with the cats bothering the catnip we grow >> outside. They don't get excited until leaves and stems get mashed, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > why that plant isn't an endangered species, unless there is some > cat-less location where it grows! New plants are beamed down by the Mothership ;)
Jill
Mathew Kagis - 01 Jan 2005 21:36 GMT > > why that plant isn't an endangered species, unless there is some > > cat-less location where it grows! > > New plants are beamed down by the Mothership ;) > > Jill LOL... The only way I've been able to grow a big, healthy catnip plant outdoors, is in a hanging basket. As to why it survives the mauling from every cat in a 10 mile radius... It's a member of the mint family & Very robust. Anyone who's ever tried to controll the spread of mint in a garden will know what I mean.
 Signature Mathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas
Yowie - 27 Dec 2004 04:53 GMT > Why is it that someone can post a very long rant against "America-bashing", > and get all kinds of supportive, you-go-girl, "me-too" posts in response, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Joyce Yowie - 27 Dec 2004 05:16 GMT > Why is it that someone can post a very long rant against "America-bashing", > and get all kinds of supportive, you-go-girl, "me-too" posts in response, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > political posts are inappropriate or unwelcome here. It's just that certain > points of view are not welcome here. A double standard, that's all it is. The way I see it, and this is just my opinion on this (I could well be very wrong) is that political posts and other posts that put people down, attack people, insult people, upset people and are in other ways negative are not popular here. Political posts that are supportive, uplifting, and generally positive in tone are, if not welcome, then tolerated.
The original post that started this discussion contained a passage that was very negative towards a set of people who are well represented in this group. The group responded in a positive manne, pointing out the good things that that set of people also have. The rest of the post that started it - which was discussing the merits of a particular film - did not attract the flammage, and in fact all agreed that the trailers of the film misrepresented the content of the film. It was the rest of the post that flung insults towards a large proportion of this group that caused the controversy.
Simply put, this is a group that holds supporting each other in very high regard. I think most of the group consider each other part of the family, we more than just posters to Usenet, we are a community ;p. We do not like anything to interfere with that intimacy. Posting insults at any group of people to which any of us might belong is dangerous, and not well tolerated. After all, most people don't like things that cause our friends hurt or upset. Thus it is I will refrain from insulting, for example, Democrat voters, for as much as I may disagree with the Democrat party, I have no quarrel with any of my Democrat voting friends, and to blanket insult Democrats would be to insult them too. We don't have to agree on everythign to be friends, but we do have to have respect for each other an each other's opinions. Friends don't insult each other.
Yowie
Howard Berkowitz - 27 Dec 2004 15:25 GMT > > Why is it that someone can post a very long rant against > "America-bashing", [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > generally > positive in tone are, if not welcome, then tolerated. I can generally agree with that, although I observe that many social gatherings consciously avoid politics, religion, and sometimes sex as subjects apt to become divisive. Feline politics, religion and sex are on topic, of course, both facetiously and, in some cases, quite specifically such as in discussions of animal cruelty legislation or treatment of animals by religions/religious bodies.
In a hopefully well-intentioned way, I just made some posts, objective as possible, to clarify both definitions and perceptions of some often inflammatory terms. My intent was to observe that if a term is inflammatory and not clearly related to cats and there people, one might think twice before posting it in a generally positive community.
> Simply put, this is a group that holds supporting each other in very high > regard. I think most of the group consider each other part of the family, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > other > an each other's opinions. Friends don't insult each other. Total agreeement.
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