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Double standard

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jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 26 Dec 2004 23:06 GMT
Why is it that someone can post a very long rant against "America-bashing",
and get all kinds of supportive, you-go-girl, "me-too" posts in response,
and not one single person says "Hey, this isn't a political newsgroup, this
is a NICE forum, can't you keep the political rants off this ng?" (I am
not implying that, myself, by the way.)

But if someone has a different point of view - not necessarily a "bashing"
point of view, just a critical one, then suddenly it's not "nice" to be
talking about politics here.

I'm starting to realize that the people on this ng don't really feel that
political posts are inappropriate or unwelcome here. It's just that certain
points of view are not welcome here. A double standard, that's all it is.

Joyce
John Doe - 26 Dec 2004 23:19 GMT
Off-topic troll.

>Path: newssvr12.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm05.news.prodigy.com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!feed.news.sonic.net!typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail
>From: jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
>Joyce
Sherry - 27 Dec 2004 06:24 GMT
>Off-topic troll.

Joyce is a long-time friend and poster on this group. She is not a troll.

Sherry
John Doe - 07 Jan 2005 00:08 GMT
>Joyce is a long-time friend and poster on this group. She is not a
>troll.

In my opinion, a long time poster should know and practice the rules
enough to get them right and show respect for others, unless maybe
she has a physical or mental infirmity which makes that impossible.

AOL, reference line deleting troll.

>Sherry
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>Message-ID: <20041227012458.08238.00002500@mb-m04.aol.com>
>Xref: newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com rec.pets.cats.anecdotes:268356
John Doe - 07 Jan 2005 00:13 GMT
See the other reply:
>From: sriddles @aol.comkitty (Sherry )
>Message-ID: <20041227012458.08238.00002500 @mb-m04.aol.com
Adrian - 28 Dec 2004 14:34 GMT
> Off-topic troll.

Are you? And how long have you been posting here? Joyce has been a
valued member of this group for a long time.
Signature

Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera)
A house is not a home, without a cat.

John Doe - 07 Jan 2005 00:12 GMT
>Are you? And how long have you been posting here? Joyce has been a
>valued member of this group for a long time.

I'm not politically correct enough to believe that because someone
has been around for a while they have a right to step on others. On
the contrary, they should be held to a higher standard.

Troll.
CatNipped - 26 Dec 2004 23:30 GMT
> Why is it that someone can post a very long rant against "America-bashing",
> and get all kinds of supportive, you-go-girl, "me-too" posts in response,
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Joyce

I apologize, Joyce.  I really shouldn't have posted an off-topic political
rant.  But it's not as though I had absolutely no reason for doing so.

In my defense, I was reacting to another post that was extremely derogative
and on top of that months and months of posts that have been derogative.
The newsgroup has been quite open to off-topic rants in the past, so I
didn't feel entirely unwelcome in protesting a growing trend, not just in RL
but here in rpca as well.

If this group did keep political rants off then there would have been no
reason for my particular rant.  The problem is that America bashing has
become so profound and so pervasive that people don't even react to it as a
political rant all its own - they just assume it's OK to denigrate an entire
nation of people and get no adverse reaction from doing so.  Therefore, I
don't entirely understand the "double standard "remark, since I've been
seeing quite a few posts that are politically slanted in a quite different
way than what I expressed in my "rant" - which, again, was the entire reason
for my "rant".

Hugs,

CatNipped
dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers - 27 Dec 2004 10:19 GMT
>The problem is that America bashing has
>become so profound and so pervasive that people don't even react to it as a
>political rant all its own - they just assume it's OK to denigrate an entire
>nation of people and get no adverse reaction from doing so.

Bear in mind that some "America-bashing" is definitely *not* bashing an entire
nation. It often is passing less than affectionate comment on the current
president and his political direction, as those who are anti-Bush can
differentiate between him and American people.

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

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Howard Berkowitz - 27 Dec 2004 15:27 GMT
> >The problem is that America bashing has
> >become so profound and so pervasive that people don't even react to it
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> president and his political direction, as those who are anti-Bush can
> differentiate between him and American people.

Speaking as one who did not vote for or support Bush, I find many posts
do NOT make that distinction. Further complicating the situation is a
view I hold, as do many centrist USAians, that Bush 43 is the President,
and it would be foolhardy for the world to seek failure of all his
actions. Instead, moderating them may be a more rational course.
Sheenah - 27 Dec 2004 00:34 GMT
> Why is it that someone can post a very long rant against "America-bashing",
> and get all kinds of supportive, you-go-girl, "me-too" posts in response,
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Joyce

This conversation has made me think about my inability to get folk to
always do what I would like them to do and I think it right to share
my thoughts.

As a result of one of the lessons I've learnt while receiving help to
overcome alcohol dependency, I have come to better understand the
limit of my power over people.  In the context of postings to NGs,
when I accept my powerlessness/inability to stop anyone from posting
anything that they want to say and exercise my power of choice over
what to read, then I am doing the best I can to maintain my serenity
and to better enjoy the time I spend on them.

Sheenah
Tish Silberbauer - 27 Dec 2004 02:01 GMT
>This conversation has made me think about my inability to get folk to
>always do what I would like them to do and I think it right to share
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Sheenah

Well said Sheenah.  
Sometimes it is tempting to take NG messages personally, but after a
time I remember that they are not directed at me or my
surroundings/country/occupation and are simply an expression of
someone else's state of mind / opinions / culture / whatever and
should be approached as an interesting aspect of another person's
personality rather than a putative attack on myself.  You just
expressed all of that much more eloquently.  

OB cats: I bought the kits a catnip plant for Christmas - one growing
in a pot.  I brought it into the house to show them, with some
trepidation (what if they were violent "drunks"?), but all three
sniffed it and ignored it.  [hrumpf!]  I'll let the plant grow a bit
and will then harvest some and dry it.  Maybe they'll be more
interested in the dried leaves.  OTOH, they thought the paper that was
cast off after unwrapping our hoomin presents was the *Best Thing
Ever*!  tee hee - we haven't tidied up because the snippets are having
such fun in the debris! (Ted is, as usual, sleeping)

Tish
Sheenah - 27 Dec 2004 02:18 GMT
> I bought the kits a catnip plant for Christmas - one growing
> in a pot.  I brought it into the house to show them, with some
> trepidation (what if they were violent "drunks"?), but all three
> sniffed it and ignored it.  [hrumpf!]

Tish,

I dare you to leave it with them overnight :^)

> OTOH, they thought the paper that was
> cast off after unwrapping our hoomin presents was the *Best Thing
> Ever*!  tee hee - we haven't tidied up because the snippets are having
> such fun in the debris! (Ted is, as usual, sleeping)

Could they have more ?  Dee Dee's bored with ours - but not with the
empty boxes :^

Sheenah
Tish Silberbauer - 27 Dec 2004 02:26 GMT
>> I bought the kits a catnip plant for Christmas - one growing
>> in a pot.  I brought it into the house to show them, with some
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>I dare you to leave it with them overnight :^)

The poor wee plant is only a few inches tall, so I daren't leave it
where they can get at it until it's managed to grow a bit  :^)

>> OTOH, they thought the paper that was
>> cast off after unwrapping our hoomin presents was the *Best Thing
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Sheenah

We received several boxes through the post (one advantage of having a
geographically dispersed family), so the kits had both paper and boxes
to play with and, joy of joys, paper *in* boxes!!  I suppose we'll
have to tidy up soon as we're having a few friends over here on
Thursday, but in the mean time we sit and giggle at Spock playing
"king of the castle" from inside a box with Persephone storming the
battlements from the outside, then a quick switch and reversed roles.
Spock also loves tunnelling and seems to derive endless joy from
burrowing into a bag full of paper, so he can "bury" himself in it and
ambush Persphone as she wanders by.

In most of their games, Spock is the Evil Genius and Persphone is the
rube, although she's always willing to Give It A Go, even if she
doesn't quite understand the rules.  

Tish
OU812? - 28 Dec 2004 02:55 GMT
>>This conversation has made me think about my inability to get folk to
>>always do what I would like them to do and I think it right to share
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> Tish

My kitties are uninterested in the plant itself as well, but go
positively mad for the dried leaves.  They DO enjoy nibbling on the
spider plants however....

Kristy
who had to put the spider plants up
Howard Berkowitz - 28 Dec 2004 03:12 GMT
> My kitties are uninterested in the plant itself as well, but go
> positively mad for the dried leaves.  They DO enjoy nibbling on the
> spider plants however....

I was always puzzled by that (although I know some that love the plant).  
Then, it occurred to me that there are human culinary herbs that are
useful both in fresh and dried form, such as sage. Dried sage isn't
worse than fresh sage -- it's just a quite different flavor.  I've made
meals where I used fresh and dried in different dishes.

*sigh* I didn't do an herb garden this year, so I don't have some of my
specialty herbs, such as pineapple sage. That doesn't dry well, but
freezes decently, and has a remarkable flavor. It's also one of those
plants where I debate when to harvest, as it has beautiful flowers if
allowed to bloom.
Jo Firey - 28 Dec 2004 03:54 GMT
>> My kitties are uninterested in the plant itself as well, but go
>> positively mad for the dried leaves.  They DO enjoy nibbling on the
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> plants where I debate when to harvest, as it has beautiful flowers if
> allowed to bloom.

We seldom have any problem with the cats bothering the catnip we grow
outside.  They don't get excited until leaves and stems get mashed,
releasing the scent.  There is a small plant in the kitchen window right
now.  They aren't interested.  But if I pick off a few leaves and rub them
between my fingers they will come running.

Jo

Jo
Cheryl Perkins - 28 Dec 2004 13:20 GMT
> We seldom have any problem with the cats bothering the catnip we grow
> outside.  They don't get excited until leaves and stems get mashed,
> releasing the scent.  There is a small plant in the kitchen window right
> now.  They aren't interested.  But if I pick off a few leaves and rub them
> between my fingers they will come running.

In my extremely limited experience with growing catnip outside, at some
point a branch must be mashed, because the bush immediately becomes an
attraction for what must surely be every cat within a 10 km radius, and
the next thing I know I have a dust bowl in the back yard. I don't know
why that plant isn't an endangered species, unless there is some cat-less  
location where it grows!

Signature

Cheryl

jmcquown - 28 Dec 2004 15:29 GMT
>> We seldom have any problem with the cats bothering the catnip we grow
>> outside.  They don't get excited until leaves and stems get mashed,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> why that plant isn't an endangered species, unless there is some
> cat-less location where it grows!

New plants are beamed down by the Mothership ;)

Jill
Mathew Kagis - 01 Jan 2005 21:36 GMT
> > why that plant isn't an endangered species, unless there is some
> > cat-less location where it grows!
>
> New plants are beamed down by the Mothership ;)
>
> Jill

LOL...  The only way I've been able to grow a big, healthy catnip plant
outdoors, is in a hanging basket.  As to why it survives the mauling from
every cat in a 10 mile radius... It's a member of the mint family & Very
robust.  Anyone who's ever tried to controll the spread of mint in a garden
will know what I mean.
Signature

Mathew
Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat
En Vino Veritas

Yowie - 27 Dec 2004 04:53 GMT
> Why is it that someone can post a very long rant against "America-bashing",
> and get all kinds of supportive, you-go-girl, "me-too" posts in response,
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Joyce
Yowie - 27 Dec 2004 05:16 GMT
> Why is it that someone can post a very long rant against "America-bashing",
> and get all kinds of supportive, you-go-girl, "me-too" posts in response,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> political posts are inappropriate or unwelcome here. It's just that certain
> points of view are not welcome here. A double standard, that's all it is.

The way I see it, and this is just my opinion on this (I could well be very
wrong) is that political posts and other posts that put people down, attack
people, insult people, upset people and are in other ways negative are not
popular here. Political posts that are supportive, uplifting, and generally
positive in tone are, if not welcome, then tolerated.

The original post that started this discussion contained a passage that was
very negative towards a set of people who are well represented in this
group. The group responded in a positive manne, pointing out the good things
that that set of people also have. The rest of the post that started it -
which was discussing the merits of a particular film - did not attract the
flammage, and in fact all agreed that the trailers of the film
misrepresented the content of the film. It was the rest of the post that
flung insults towards a large proportion of this group that caused the
controversy.

Simply put, this is a group that holds supporting each other in very high
regard. I think most of the group consider each other part of the family, we
more than just posters to Usenet, we are a community
;p. We do not like anything to interfere with that intimacy. Posting insults
at any group of people to which any of us might belong is dangerous, and not
well tolerated. After all, most people don't like things that cause our
friends hurt or upset. Thus it is I will refrain from insulting, for
example, Democrat voters, for as much as I may disagree with the Democrat
party, I have no quarrel with any of my Democrat voting friends, and to
blanket insult Democrats would be to insult them too. We don't have to agree
on everythign to be friends, but we do have to have respect for each other
an each other's opinions. Friends don't insult each other.

Yowie
Howard Berkowitz - 27 Dec 2004 15:25 GMT
> > Why is it that someone can post a very long rant against
> "America-bashing",
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> generally
> positive in tone are, if not welcome, then tolerated.

I can generally agree with that, although I observe that many social
gatherings consciously avoid politics, religion, and sometimes sex as
subjects apt to become divisive. Feline politics, religion and sex are
on topic, of course, both facetiously and, in some cases, quite
specifically such as in discussions of animal cruelty legislation or
treatment of animals by religions/religious bodies.

In a hopefully well-intentioned way, I just made some posts, objective
as possible, to clarify both definitions and perceptions of some often
inflammatory terms. My intent was to observe that if a term is
inflammatory and not clearly related to cats and there people, one might
think twice before posting it in a generally positive community.

> Simply put, this is a group that holds supporting each other in very high
> regard. I think most of the group consider each other part of the family,
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> other
> an each other's opinions. Friends don't insult each other.

Total agreeement.
 
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