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Sabra Update

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Ginger-lyn Summer - 15 Dec 2004 18:52 GMT
Well, I still don't know what is going on :-(

BUT -- he seems to be doing better.

Right after my first post, he started eating again!  And no vomiting,
either.  This went on for almost two weeks, and we thought maybe it
was a temporary thing and he was out of the woods.

Unfortunately, the past few days have brought some vomiting and
reluctance to eat on occasion.  But at least he *is* eating.  I keep
trying to get him to eat c/d (which he *should* be on), but he is
being picky and will only sometimes eat that.  And you know, he is a
15-year-old cat (or maybe 16; we don't really know for sure); quite
frankly, if he wants to eat Friskies, I'm gonna feed him Friskies!

I had a friend once who had a sick cat who was supposed to eat a
special diet.  He would stare at the plate and refuse to eat the
"good" food.  But bring out the Friskies, and he'd chomp it down.  She
always imagined him saying "Freeeeskies!  I want my Freeeeskies!"

So if that's what Sabra will eat, that's what he gets.

Boy I'm glad on not posting this on h+b.  I'd be flamebroiled!

Ginger-lyn
treeline12345@yahoo.com - 15 Dec 2004 19:22 GMT
> Unfortunately, the past few days have brought some vomiting and
> reluctance to eat on occasion.  But at least he *is* eating.  I keep
> trying to get him to eat c/d (which he *should* be on), but he is
> being picky and will only sometimes eat that.  And you know, he is a
> 15-year-old cat (or maybe 16; we don't really know for sure); quite
> frankly, if he wants to eat Friskies, I'm gonna feed him Friskies!
------------snipped for brevity-----------------------------------
> Ginger-lyn

You might want to give this some more analysis to crack your dilemma.

Can you find out what it is about Science Diet c/d that your cat needs?
1. Is it its low pH, acidic, around 6.2 to 6.4 for this particular
item.
2. Does your cat need a higher water intake?
3. Is it low phosphorus with calcium proporionate, usually 1.0 to
1.1/1.2.
4. Is it low ash that is the goal?
5. How about low protein along with low phosphorus and acidic too?

See? There are many possibilities. Different companies, different
brands.
It's tedious to look this up. There are some old web sites which have a
listing.
One lady for her two beloved cats made a list up. It's old but still
good listing just about all known wet and dry foods sorted by protein,
phosphorus, sat and fat. It's a great web site.

Here are her selections for Friskies for wet or canned food.

You can also mix 1/2 and 1/2 which I am sure you have tried?

Friskies used to have a vet on their staff. Maybe you could call and
explain your dilemma. Generally Friskies is very high in protein and
phosphorus but they are not all created equal. Try to see if Friskies
can come up with an equivalent for c/d or what they say. Did you see
their show with the trained cats? Strange, cute, but a little
stressful. Trained cats seems inappropriate although teaching a few
tricks can be like playing with the cat.

This is Noreen Boles, the one I talked about above, in regards to renal
failure but the analyses are helpful for all and the items below, also
dry food analysis is available here, are from this URL:
http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm

Some additional urls which lists simply some important items:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/cat_food_nutrition_dry.htm
http://www.felinediabetes.com/cat_food_nutrition_canned.htm

VETERINARY LOW-PROTEIN DIETS     %Protein    % Phosphorus    % Sodium    % FAT

Friskies Beef Stew*    45.11    1.11    0.47    37.45
Friskies Carved Chicken & Tuna*    50.24    1.00    1.47    16.59
Friskies Carved With Beef*    49.77    1.08    1.46    16.43
Friskies Classic Seafood Entrée*    47.39    1.24    0.52    34.54
Friskies Country Style Dinner*    44.35    1.46    0.59    41.84
Friskies Elegant Entrée*    45.45    1.86    0.50    37.60
Friskies Flaked With Tuna & Egg*    58.98    1.48    0.51    19.92
Friskies Flaked With Tuna*    60.08    1.57    0.44    18.15
Friskies Kitten Mixed Grill Formula*    51.27    1.27    0.59    34.32
Friskies Kitten Ocean Whitefish Formula*    58.30    1.54    0.61    24.70
Friskies Kitten Turkey Formula*    50.20    1.85    0.48    34.94
Friskies Liver & Chicken Dinner*    47.30    1.16    1.00    36.51
Friskies Mariner's Catch*    49.17    1.38    0.54    32.50
Friskies Mixed Grill*    48.12    1.34    0.67    38.49
Friskies Mixed Grill*    50.21    1.14    0.51    37.13
Friskies Ocean Whitefish & Tuna*    49.79    1.29    0.54    32.37
Friskies Prime Entrée*    46.38    1.36    0.72    38.30
Friskies Prime Filets Turkey Dinner in Gravy*    58.54    0.81    1.42    11.38
Friskies Prime Filets with Beef in Gravy*    57.26    0.85    1.41    12.10
Friskies Salmon Dinner*    48.03    1.50    0.43    35.43
Friskies Sea Captain's Choice*    48.13    1.33    0.54    34.85
Friskies Senior Ocean Whitefish & Rice in Sauce*    50.21    1.28    0.51    26.81
Friskies Senior Pacific Salmon in Sauce*    49.79    1.73    0.42    27.85
Friskies Senior Savory Beef in Sauce*    46.96    1.26    0.74    31.74
Friskies Senior Tender Cuts Chicken & Tuna*    49.12    1.06    0.27    18.58
Friskies Senior Turkey & Giblets in Gravy*    52.66    1.59    0.48    30.43
Friskies Senior With Sliced Lamb & Rice*    46.70    1.27    0.25    16.75
Friskies Shredded Chicken & Salmon*    52.74    0.90    0.30    18.41
Friskies Shredded Turkey & Cheese*    52.00    1.10    0.55    18.00
Friskies Sliced Chicken in Gravy*    52.42    1.10    0.35    19.82
Friskies Sliced Gourmet Grill*    54.02    0.80    0.36    15.63
Friskies Sliced With Beef in Gravy*    55.84    0.84    1.56    12.34
Friskies Special Diet Beef & Chicken Dinner*    47.21    1.03    0.56    36.05
Friskies Special Diet Beef & Liver Dinner*    49.15    0.98    0.47    30.77
Friskies Special Diet Ocean Whitefish Dinner*    49.79    1.09    0.46    33.05
Friskies Special Diet Sliced Chicken in Gravy*    53.77    0.80    0.42    19.81
Friskies Special Diet Turkey & Giblets Dinner*    52.04    0.95    1.00    36.20
Friskies Special Diet Turkey & Giblets*    48.66    0.94    0.98    34.38
Friskies Tender Cuts Chicken & Salmon in Gravy*    49.54    1.16    0.42    18.98
Friskies Tender Cuts Ocean Whitefish in Sauce*    50.23    1.13    0.42    16.90
Friskies Tender Cuts Turkey & Liver in Gravy*    49.06    1.18    0.38    16.04
Friskies Turkey & Giblets Dinner*    48.95    1.52    0.84    36.71
Friskies Turkey & Giblets*    48.74    1.85    0.92    36.98
Whew, that's a long response. Helpful?
treeline12345@yahoo.com - 15 Dec 2004 20:38 GMT
Where I listed or rather pasted all the Friskies' info under
"Low-Protein" this
was definitely not referring to Friskies which appears to be not at all
low protein or low phosphorus. The Low-Protein referred to special
foods or premium foods or sometimes regular foods which are indeed
low-protein. I snipped those out just to show Friskies which you
had mentioned.

So again, Friskies is NOT low-protein.
VETERINARY LOW-PROTEIN DIETS         %Protein        % Phosphorus
Karen - 15 Dec 2004 19:23 GMT
> Well, I still don't know what is going on :-(
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Ginger-lyn

Most sane people agree that eating is the most important thing. Especially
at that age. I would do exactly the same thing. My vet even said that she
used to be in the "you must eat THIS" camp for renal cats, but finally came
to the realization that it was more important that they eat than what they
eat. SHe WANTS them to eat what is good for them, but if they won't, she'd
be the first to say try something else.
Howard Berkowitz - 15 Dec 2004 20:42 GMT
> > Well, I still don't know what is going on :-(
> >
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> she'd
> be the first to say try something else.

Terry, my childhood d*g, was diagnosed with renal failure, given six
weeks to live, and put on a prescription kidney diet. He hated it.  
Eventually, my mother took out the bag of Gravy Train.  

He inhaled it, and lived another three years -- dying of heart, not
kidney, disease.
Yoj - 15 Dec 2004 19:34 GMT
> Well, I still don't know what is going on :-(
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Ginger-lyn

I'm with you - feed him what he'll eat.  My vet agrees with you.  When
Nanki-Poo wasn't eating, and when he just started eating again, she
said, "That he eats is much more important than what he eats."

Joy
mlbriggs - 15 Dec 2004 22:49 GMT
> Well, I still don't know what is going on :-(
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Ginger-lyn

I find this interesting.  TuTu always likes to eat, but she really gets
excited over people tuna and Friskies.  I normally feed her Iams but
occasionally buy a box of Friskies for a  before-bed treat.  MLB
polonca12000 - 15 Dec 2004 22:50 GMT
Lots of purrs for Sabra to be healthy again,
Signature

Polonca & Soncek

> Well, I still don't know what is going on :-(
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> either.  This went on for almost two weeks, and we thought maybe it
> was a temporary thing and he was out of the woods.
<snip
Christina Websell - 15 Dec 2004 23:38 GMT
> Well, I still don't know what is going on :-(
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Ginger-lyn

When your animal is sick and won't eat, you have to make that decision,
shall I give her/him something that they *ought" to eat, or something that
they *will* eat.
I had a whippet called Minnie who I could not have loved more if she had
been my child.  As she reached 18 or so, her appetite got bad, and I knew
she had CRF.  For a while, she would eat the kidney diet, but towards the
end of her life she was very difficult to feed, to find something she would
like.
My vet said to me  "It doesn't matter now what's good for her or not, or
what might rot her teeth. Give her anything she might want."  So I did.  She
lived for a few days after her 19th birthday and I still miss her terribly.
<Confession>  When she got frail I used to take her up to bed with me, and
woe betide me if the electric blanket wasn't on!  Then I used to put her
under the duvet and we would snuggle up together until morning, like spoons.
I will never stop missing her.

Tweed
Sometimes you have one dog in your life that is very special.  I have had
two, but owned 12

.
Dan M - 16 Dec 2004 05:02 GMT
>>So if that's what Sabra will eat, that's what he gets.
>>
>>Boy I'm glad on not posting this on h+b.  I'd be flamebroiled!
>>
>>Ginger-lyn

When DD first developed CRF, the vet told us to feed her a prescription
food. We tried, but she completely refused to eat it. We couldn't figure
out what do to get her to eat. We tried offering her everything - baby
food, yogurt, soups, hamburger, turkey. Finally, in desperation, I
brought my bag of feral food in from the truck - Meow Mix. Now the kind
of food I would want to feed regularly to my own kitties, but it was
what I could afford at the time to feed those stray kitties I would see
around.

DD decided that Meow Mix was the greatest stuff she had ever tasted! So
from then on, that's waht we fed her. We'd sneak in some of the good
stuff mixed in with it, and eventually got her to eat mostly the good
stuff with just enough Meow Mix to give it the flavor she liked.

We fed her that stuff for the three more years she was with us. Better
to feed her something that isn't quite what the vet ordered, than only
offer the prescription stuff and see her starve.

Dan
Marina - 16 Dec 2004 03:48 GMT
> Well, I still don't know what is going on :-(
>
> BUT -- he seems to be doing better.

Purrs that Sabra continues to improve. Yes, I agree that eating
something is more important than not eating at all. Give him his
Friskes, and maybe when he is feeling better, you could slowly switch to
some more senior-cat-friendly food?

Signature

Marina, Frank and Nikki
marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Christine Burel - 16 Dec 2004 08:06 GMT
Purrs that he'll continue to eat and you can figure out what he needs --
pardon me if you mentioned this already, does he have kidney disease and/or
dental trouble? Those conditions affected 2 of my RB cats and we definitely
had the vomiting with the kidney disease (sub-q fluids helped this a lot)
and the one cat had both kidney disease and a bad tooth which also caused
him to not want to eat.
Christine
> Well, I still don't know what is going on :-(
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Ginger-lyn
Ginger-lyn Summer - 16 Dec 2004 19:17 GMT
>Purrs that he'll continue to eat and you can figure out what he needs --
>pardon me if you mentioned this already, does he have kidney disease and/or
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>him to not want to eat.
>Christine

Hi, Christine,

No kidney disease; bloodwork was run and showed everything normal in
terms of kidneys, liver, and diabetes.  His teeth are definitely bad,
and the vet and we suspect that is a part of all this, but with his
age and condition (asthma), putting him under anesthesia for a dental
cleaning is considered too risky.  I've switched him to canned food
only, added water, mushed it up really well, and heated it in the
microwave so it's slightly warm.

What he *was* on was a combination of dry c/d and wet w/d; he showed
some signs of tending to kidney blockage, but his weight was at a good
place and c/d tends to add weight, so the vet thought that combination
was a good one.  It seemed to me the dry food definitely was a
problem, and he refused the wet w/d, too.  I think he associated both
of those with his vomiting.  So I've been trying wet c/d, and
occasionally, he will eat that, but usually holds out for Friskies.
Stubborn cat!

Ginger-lyn
Adrian - 17 Dec 2004 14:28 GMT
> Well, I still don't know what is going on :-(
>
> BUT -- he seems to be doing better.
<snip>

> So if that's what Sabra will eat, that's what he gets.
>
> Boy I'm glad on not posting this on h+b.  I'd be flamebroiled!
>
> Ginger-lyn

Continuing purrs for Sabra. I was just looking at your card, which
arrived today. Which one is Sabra?
Signature

Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera)
A house is not a home, without a cat.

Ginger-lyn Summer - 17 Dec 2004 18:44 GMT
>Continuing purrs for Sabra. I was just looking at your card, which
>arrived today. Which one is Sabra?
Thanks, Adrian and everyone.

Sabra is the one in the back on the left (I know, how do you tell
three black cats apart?  lol!).  Merlyn is right of Sabra, and Trill
right of Merlyn.  Arthur is sort of between Sabra and Merlyn, and
Cosmo is right to and slightly below Trill.  Internet is in the
middle, with Brando to his right, and Wolfie is in the front.  And
that's the crew :-)

Ginger-lyn
 
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