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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / December 2004OT Speakers of the Polish language
How do you pronounce Wrzeszcz? TIA > How do you pronounce Wrzeszcz? > > TIA I don't speak Polish, but when applying a mixture of Russian, German and my own blonde logics ;) I'd deduce that: - 'sz' is a sharp s-sound (or z) - 'cz' is a "voiced hush-sound", might be written as 'zh' in English - the z between the r and e would probably make that three-letter combo meld into a kind of 'rzhe' I think I'd pronounce it as one syllable - a h*ck of a tongue-twister - and make it something like "wrzheszh", separating the sz-sound from the cz-sound at the end. But this is just a blonde guess... :)  SignatureChristine in Vantaa, Finland christal63 (at) yahoo (dot) com photos: http://photos.yahoo.com/christal63 > > How do you pronounce Wrzeszcz? > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > But this is just a blonde guess... :) You know, that sounds a lot more plausible than the Re-ses-ish that I saw in one article with it. Thanks! (It's a race horse's name, named after a suburb in Gdansk.) >> > How do you pronounce Wrzeszcz? >> > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > suburb > in Gdansk.) I will ask my German friend, N?le, she has learned to speak some Polish. Tweed > >> > How do you pronounce Wrzeszcz? > >> > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Tweed Kewl! >> >> > How do you pronounce Wrzeszcz? >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> > Kewl! Okay! Are you ready for this? N has explained it so well that I can do no better than to paste her reply below: quote I can still remember well how I took the first glance at my Polish book - it seemed unbelievable how anyone on Earth should be able to pronounce so many consonants in one row! The simple trick about it is that not all of them are pronounced as single consonants. Let's cut the name in question down into small bits first: W-rz-e-sz-cz. Probably the name of a city. in Polish, "w" simply is a w like Germans pronounce it, so that would be the sound of your "v" in "vast" or "village". "e" represents a sound like your "a" in "at" or "any". "rz" is a sound like the second "g" in the French word "garage" (pronounced the French way of course). Or like the "j" in the French word "jour". "sz" is a bit like the English "sh". Like in "English" ;-) And "cz" would be pronounced like the "tch" in "witch" or the "ch" in "which". (You can see how little logic there is in English pronunciation ;-) very unlike Polish or Italian, where everything is pronounced how it is written, once you know the rules) The Polish language loves to use lots of slightly different "sh" and "tch" sounds, and the difference between them is hard to imagine if you can't hear them. But now we come to the part that is most fun of all, putting the pieces together! Unfortunately, there is no letter in English to represent the French "j" or Polish "rz" sound, but just for the sake of simplicity let's agree it should be a "j" in the following attempt to write it down with English rules: "Vjash-tch" Tell me whether you succeeded ;-) unquote Hope this helps Tweed >>>>>>How do you pronounce Wrzeszcz? >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >>>>suburb >>>>in Gdansk.) <snip> > But now we come to the part that is most fun of > all, putting the pieces together! Unfortunately, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Tweed So my guess was *a bit* off then... :) SignatureChristine in Vantaa, Finland christal63 (at) yahoo (dot) com photos: http://photos.yahoo.com/christal63 >>>>>>>How do you pronounce Wrzeszcz? >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > So my guess was *a bit* off then... :) Lol! Maybe, but hey, I couldn't guess at all! I knew if I mailed to Germany, N would know this. She just loves to study and learn all the time about anything and everything. Puts me to shame really. I cannot imagine any scenerio at all when I might think "Oh, it might be a good idea for me to learn Polish." I have a little bit of French from my schooldays, enough to read ingredients and instructions on French groceries that we sometimes get here. My German is dire. I know the word for hen, hedgehog, grasshopper, exit and no entry. Honestly, I volunteered to try and learn because of N, but she said no, as she was able to speak some English, it would be too difficult for me at my age!!! She's a homeopathic doctor. She helped me so much with my dog, and his last illness and passing that I offered in return to be her English tutor. She definitely needed it at that time. So I am very proud of her English now. There are some phraseologies that she could still improve, but hey, I think she is now excellent! <boast> Tweed > "CK" <christal63@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Tweed That's great! You *should' feel proud for helping a native German speaker learn English as it seems to be a bit tricky for them. French they learn easily, but English is harder, especially pronouncing the th-sound. 'This and that' usually sounds like 'zis and zat'... :) SignatureChristine in Vantaa, Finland christal63 (at) yahoo (dot) com photos: http://photos.yahoo.com/christal63 >> "CK" <christal63@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > That's great! You *should' feel proud for helping a native German speaker > learn English as it seems to be a bit tricky for them. It was the least I could do really. She was an internet friend from my chicken group. When my mother died suddenly last year she got on a coach and came over to help me. I had never met her before that. French > they learn easily, but English is harder, especially pronouncing the > th-sound. 'This and that' usually sounds like 'zis and zat'... :) I thought she might say "zis and zat" She doesn't. Her "th's" are perfect. She also needs more tuition about English swear words. "Is bugger a friendly word to say to someone?" Aaargh... (I wondered where she could have possibly have heard this..) Tweed > She also needs more tuition about English swear words. > "Is bugger a friendly word to say to someone?" > Aaargh... > (I wondered where she could have possibly have heard this..) > > Tweed LOL! SignatureChristine in Vantaa, Finland christal63 (at) yahoo (dot) com photos: http://photos.yahoo.com/christal63 > She also needs more tuition about English swear words. > "Is bugger a friendly word to say to someone?" > Aaargh... > (I wondered where she could have possibly have heard this..) It's funny you should mention this! I have a good friend who is from Germany, but lives in England and speaks extremely good English... except, she was totally unaware that bugger was actually quite rude, she was using it all the time as a term of endearment :-)) Deb. Signaturehttp://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield >> She also needs more tuition about English swear words. >> "Is bugger a friendly word to say to someone?" [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Deb. Awwww. I suppose no one dare to tell her! I have given N a crash course in English swear words, since this. We have covered everything, I think. I do not mind if she swears, but I want her to know what she is saying. As my German is so poor, she doesn't see the need to reciprocate ;-) Tweed > >> "CK" <christal63@yahoo.com> wrote in message > >>> [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > Aaargh... > (I wondered where she could have possibly have heard this..) It is in Australia :-) Yowie > She also needs more tuition about English swear words. > "Is bugger a friendly word to say to someone?" > Aaargh... > (I wondered where she could have possibly have heard this..) LOL! Well, at least she asked first. SignatureMarina, Frank and Nikki marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki >>>"CK" <christal63@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Tweed LOL - sounds like she learned English from Australians. I've not heard a better explanation! Brava! Blessed be, Baha maiden name Szczepanska! > >> >> > How do you pronounce Wrzeszcz? > >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > > Tweed Living in an area with a high number of immigrants from All Over, it seems to that many of the children of immigrants with names that have spellings that cause native speakers great difficulties often change the spelling of the name to reflect how an English speaking person would spell it. For example, my ex's last name was Nagy (His father was Hungarian, his mother Polish. I really miss my ex-MIL's cooking). Whilst his branch of the family spelt it that way, another branch of them spelt it Najee, because most English speakers mis-pronounced it "Naggy" when it should have been prounounced "Nah-jee". Another friend of mine's name is Ciorstan, but generally introduces herself and writes it out as "Kirsty" because she finds most people have real trouble with getting the right roll on the "Cior" bit. And the girl in my class with the name of Ngaire, that really threw people. You'd have to know her already or be able to transliterate Maori to know it was prounced "Nigh-ree", in fact, most people who came across her name just referred to her as "Miss ______" or even "Joy" (her middle name). Yowie, whose cat "Shmoggleberry" is known as "Mog" at TED for the very same reason. > I've not heard a better explanation! Brava! > [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > > > > Tweed >Living in an area with a high number of immigrants from All Over, it >seems to that many of the children of immigrants with names that [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >Yowie, whose cat "Shmoggleberry" is known as "Mog" at TED for the >very same reason. I used to know a man named Joseph Bistowish. He once told me that, as far as he knew, he was the only person in the USA who currently had that spelling of the name. The family name was originally Bistowycz, but, when his grandfather immigrated from Poland, an immigration officer assigned the name a new spelling. Dr. Bistowish's children chose to change back to the original Polish spelling. SignatureJohn F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria <snip> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > John F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com > PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu John, I don't know anything about PGP encryption, about keys, or what I'm supposed to do with the above PGP signature. Could you enlighten me please? Thanks, Yowie >John, I don't know anything about PGP encryption, about keys, or what I'm >supposed to do with the above PGP signature. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Yowie Unless they've changed the rules, PGP cannot be exported; it's a US federal crime to do so. "Pretty Good Privacy" is a 'dual key' system. Everyone who uses it has two keys. One is public and can be gotten from the key server for anyone's key. The other key is private. There are several things you can do with it. You can ENCODE a message to me, for example, with my public key. Only I, with my private key can decode it when it arrives in my e-mail. You can ENCODE a file on your own computer so that only you can read it. You can SIGN a message that's written in clear text and get the 'signature' that's attached to John's article. You could then, should you suspect someone else is 'spoofing' John's address, verify with his public key that the message was signed with his private key. You would then be sure that the message really did come from John and that not so much as a comma has been changed from the original text. As far as I know, there are places on the net where non-US residents can get the program if they want it. If you do decide to get a copy, make sure it's from a trusted site. Regards and Purrs, O J > Unless they've changed the rules, PGP cannot be exported; it's a US > federal crime to do so. "Pretty Good Privacy" is a 'dual key' system. > Everyone who uses it has two keys. One is public and can be gotten > from the key server for anyone's key. The other key is private. > There are several things you can do with it. And isn't GPG compatible with PGP? I'm pretty sure that GPG is freely available outside of the US. Unfortunatelt I can't do a search right now to find out where - for some reason Google won't load over my GPRS wireless connection. Dan Good grief - I also went to school with a Ngaire (and have just re-established contact with her after 10 years). She *hated* the way that strangers pronounced her name "Nigaree". Her siblings called her "Nog" when she was small, but I guess they no longer do so. I have two un-spellable names and one unpronouncable name, so I was sympathetic (which is why I call myself "Tish"!). Tish >Living in an area with a high number of immigrants from All Over, it seems >to that many of the children of immigrants with names that have spellings [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Yowie, whose cat "Shmoggleberry" is known as "Mog" at TED for the very same >reason. Tish Silberbauer <tsilberb@yahoo.co.uk> had some very interesting things to say about Re: OT Speakers of the Polish language: >I have two un-spellable names and one unpronouncable name, so I was >sympathetic (which is why I call myself "Tish"!). When I call about an account, I always have to spell my first name for the phone person and frequently my last name. Signature"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding. :-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL >I have two un-spellable names and one unpronouncable name, so I was >sympathetic (which is why I call myself "Tish"!). > >Tish I've got a similar problem. My last name is Gritmon which most people pronounce correctly (Grit as in grit and mon as in money, with the accent on the first syllable). I just can't seem to get people to spell it right even after I've told them. Everyone wants to spell it "Gritman". I have to have to have half of my accounts, driver's licence, etc. redone with the right spelling. Regards and Purrs, O J (Old John) GritmOn > I have two un-spellable names and one unpronouncable name, so I was > sympathetic (which is why I call myself "Tish"!). > > Tish Apparently my first name is becoming popular, although with many varied spellings. The thing that always irritated me the most was when my teachers would read roll call and call me Elsie. I couldn't figure out how this person was supposed to teach me to read when they couldn't even read my name properly. My last name is unspellable and unpronounceable for many people as well. SignatureElise (supervised by Gossamer & Jeeves) pics: http://photos.yahoo.com/dragonandthistle@snet.net You should have heard what horrible things people did with my maiden name. It was officially Szczepanski, but I preferred to use the traditional feminine spelling, ending with an A. I'll tell you, children can be such nasty little critters: Sha-Pantyhose, Chimpanski, Sha-Polack, Sh*t-yerpantski. And when I did mail order, it was an adventure! I had to spell that alphabet soup out six or seven times for those unfortunate operators. After 36 years, I could take no more. I started calling myself Singh six months before I got married. That has good comedy relief too. I heard some Indian lady make an impolite racial comment, and you should have seen her face when this redheaded Polack turned and told her off in Punjabi! Blessed be, Baha > Good grief - I also went to school with a Ngaire (and have just > re-established contact with her after 10 years). She *hated* the way [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >Yowie, whose cat "Shmoggleberry" is known as "Mog" at TED for the very same > >reason. > Good grief - I also went to school with a Ngaire (and have just > re-established contact with her after 10 years). She *hated* the > way that strangers pronounced her name "Nigaree". This reminds me - what is the correct way to pronounce the Vietnamese name "Nguyen"? I used to think it was pronounced "N'goo-yen", or maybe "Engoo-yen". But then I heard about a Vietnamese actress named France Nuyen. I thought it interesting that the g was removed, and this made me think that it's supposed to be silent, and she took it out of the spelling so people would pronounce the name correctly more easily. But even if that's true I still don't know how to pronounce the "u". Is it "Noo-yen"? "Noi-yen"? Joyce >This reminds me - what is the correct way to pronounce the Vietnamese >name "Nguyen"? I used to think it was pronounced "N'goo-yen", or maybe [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Joyce I don't know how it is supposed to be pronounced, but I usually pronounce it with a silent "g", "Nuu-en" Tish < But even if that's true I still don't know how to pronounce the "u". Is it "Noo-yen"? "Noi-yen"? Joyce > Hi Joyce! Actually, it is pronounced "Win". My hubby works with a few Vietnamese with the name Nguyen, and that is how they pronounce it. Patti > Actually, it is pronounced "Win". My hubby works with a few Vietnamese with > the name Nguyen, and that is how they pronounce it. Wow! I never would have guessed that!! Thanks, Joyce Thanks, Baha, I was pretty impressed myself! I expected her to just mail a few words with a phonetic spelling of the word itself, not a complete explanation like that. I managed to pronounce it myself, and though I sez it as shouldn't, it sounded like Polish to me!! Tweed > I've not heard a better explanation! Brava! > [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] >> >> Tweed > How do you pronounce Wrzeszcz? > > TIA I had a neighbor a few years ago with one of those impossible-to-sound-out names. I just called him "Mr. Sneeze"> MLB >> How do you pronounce Wrzeszcz? >> >> TIA > > I had a neighbor a few years ago with one of those impossible-to-sound-out > names. I just called him "Mr. Sneeze"> MLB LOL! Was his name Szczecepanski? (skuh-PAN-ski) I had a friend named Krawzyk when I was a kid. (CRAW-zik). SignatureChristopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org www.mormons.com On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:08:18 -0600, Karen wrote: > How do you pronounce Wrzeszcz? > > TIA I had a neighbor a few years ago with one of those impossible-to-sound-out names. I just called him "Mr. Sneeze"> MLB Baha Singh is the one to answer this one -- she has Poles in her family. I did leave a message on her answering machine, lets see what she says when she gets back to the news group. My best guess: WHIR-says. SignatureChristopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org www.mormons.com How do you pronounce Wrzeszcz? TIA |
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