Mega purrs on the way for Abelard. Please keep us updated.

It just occurred to me what might have happened. That little jar is too
small and not full enough for a cat's face to enter, but he may have stuck a
paw into it, then felt the burning and tried to lick the stuff off.  I just
called the vet again to tell them to check his paws and see if this looks
likely, if one of them appears reddened or something.

I'm supposed to be at the doctor myself in a short while, getting a biopsy.
Possible skin cancer on my left knee. I may not be able to speak with the
vet again today.

Purrs on the way.

purrs in route

Purrs for Abelard on the way

Jill

We're sending our best purrs, Pat.

Please, don't beat yourself up over this. Kitties can find ways to get
into the most insanely inaccessible places. I also suspect that a good
number of us have stuff the cats shouldn't be allowed to get to, without
being aware of it. No matter how careful we are, it's all too easy to
overlook things.

We're keeping our fingers crossed.

Dan

huge purrs coming your way !

Purrs and prayers by the ton going out for Abelard.
Hope he comes through all of this in good health.

Lily & her mama

Purrs are on the way!

Poor Aby!! My gang will purr for him to make it through this.

I'm wondering if it isn't something else altogether, though. I agree
that if something burns that much on immediate contact, a cat would
be very unlikely to keep drinking it. Plus, if he was lying on your
lap for a while before the seizures started, that doesn't sound
like hydrochloric acid burns. I would expect the symptoms to start
immediately, if he had actually ingested enough to harm him. I hope
they consider other possibilities, and maybe you should, too.

Purrs for you, too, that your biopsy turns out negative.

If Abelard had ingested some vanisol with the 23% hydrochloric acid, he
would have acid burns to his motuh, tongue and aesophegus. They'd be easy to
see - they'd be like heat burns, red and blistery. He'd be in *alot* of pain
and frothing at the mouth.

However, going for a quick internet search, there seems to be many different
products under the Vanisol brand name, not all of which are 23% hydrochloric
acid. I don't know which one youve got, but please find out which one and
find the MSDS (material safety data sheet) for it ASAP - it will help the
vet know what to do if it was poisoning from a Vanisol product. MSDSs are
easy to download frmthe 'net, but failing tha, ring the manufacturerof
Vanisol and ask for he MSDS details. They have to give it to you, by law
(even US law)

I am not a vet, but to be honest, I don't think hydrocholric acid by itself
would cause convulsions, because I don't think any animal could ingest
enough to cause harm. And even if they did manage to digest it without
getting severe burns on the mouth, tongue and oesophagus, the stomach is
full of hyrdocholric acid anyway. A small amount of extra concentrated acid
would decrease the pH of the stomach some more, but not too much. Worst youd
get would be a bit of acid reflux, which a cat would o doubt just hurk up.
You'd have to digest an aweful lot to cause damage to the stomach, and by
that time (I apologise for being gross) there would be no mouth,, tongue,
throat, or aesophagus left.

The high acid Vanisol that I think you are talking about also has alkyl
dimethyl benzyl ammonium chlorides (at 0.05%) and O-Benzyl-P-Chlorophenol at
0.01%. To be honest, at those low levels and hte small amount Abelard may
have digested without any noticable chemical burns to his mouth, means that
the amount diested wouldbe negligiable and therefore unless cats are
pecularly sensitive to such things, I don't think thiswouldbe he cause of
convulsions (although I am not a vet).

The thing i can't figure out is why a plumber would recommend a bowl
cleaner, when almost invariably, the problem with drains is the build up of
fats and hair, which is usually solved by products which are strongly
alkaline (caustic). Although caustic will cause nasty chemical burns too.

If there's no sign of chemical burns in his mouth, or tongue, I dont think
the Vanisol is the cause (but I am not a vet)

Purrs for Abelard.

Yowie
(also wondering how you know its high-acid Vanisol if its in a plain glass
jar, and how Abelard could have access to it if you've never noticed it
before)

Lots of purrs coming over the pond for Abelard to recover.

Tweed
KFC & Boyfie

"Pat" <...

Pat, you don't know me, since I'm new here, but please know healing
PUUUUUURS are sent for Abelard.

<edit>

I give my vote as a yes, yes he will:)
It's NOT your fault that this happened sweetie.
No no no  nope!!
And blast TED for being so rude to you!
That was very unprofessional IMO!
Prayers,  Healing Purrs, Hugs,
Love and Bright Blessings for Abelard and you.
Please keep us posted
Kyla
kyla.waterman@comcast.net
is where you can e-mail me if you'd like.

They didn't want to keep him overnight because no one would be there. The
vet said he's not sure what caused this. They gave him a huge amount of
fluids, both IV and orally. So much that the carrier felt several pounds
heavier than when we went in.

Abelard is sleeping and his body seems too cold. I took him out of the
carrier and he's now on a soft down pillow with a warm blanket around him. I
tried putting him in the litter box first, just in case, and he could not
stand up. Didn't seem to need to pee either. Amazing, with all that extra
fluid.

When I took him out of the carrier he woke up a bit and his head was
bouncing around like it was earlier when he was convulsing, only not as
pronounced.

Anyway, he's alive for the time being. I need to try and get a charcoal
tablet into him at some point pretty soon.... T

Purrs for Abelard to make it and come home healthy again!

Melissa

(Gently Snipped)

I'm so sorry.  I hope he's going to be okay.  You've got our purrs going at
major volume.

kili

I hope he makes it through this. Massive purrs are provided from here.
Poor aby.

Below is some information I  came across with some web searching that I
hope might be useful.  I am sorry if some of it is alarming and
apologize in advance. I still hope the little guy pulls through.

1.
When there is too much bright light, the third eyelid partially covers
the eye, filtering the light. It also cleans debris off the eye.
However, bits of grit may become trapped under the third eyelid and may
need to be removed under anesthesia. In some cats, a small portion of
the third eyelid is visible at all times. In other cats, the nictitating
membrane is only visible when the cat is ill, thus serving as a useful
indicator. The third eyelid is not always a sign of illness. For unknown
reasons, the membrane will appear for a few days in healthy cats.
However, if it remains visible for more than two days, the cat should be
taken to the veterinarian.

2.
As an example, the "third eyelid," known also as the nictitating
membrane, in the inner corner of the eye, normally barely shows.
However, when a cat is very sick, the third eyelid will show. Combined
with a "glassy look" and other symptoms, the appearance of the third
eyelid is an indication, in this case, for immediate veterinary
intervention.

3.
If it's chlymida-related, my alternative-therapy vet recommended
crushing up an L-Lysine tablet and adding it to their food. It must be
tasteless because they eat it right up.

Sounds like the kitten is a carrier, possibly could be calici virus as
well, especially since lethargy is an early symptom. Watch for white
sores in the mouth, or a split on the lip. The sores would be definituve
for calici.

4)
Is it a male? Has he peed?

One of our cats did this and it was the ONLY visable sign given that he
had a urinary blockage with Kidney stones. Had we not noticed this he
would have died with in 24 hours. :o(

If it just one eye it may be an eye injury, if it is both it is usually
a sign thath the cat has a high temperature. Either way it is probably
best to get him checked out by a vet.

5)
http://www.petplace.com/cats/protrusion-of-third-eyelid-in-cats/page1.aspx
You can also get to this by going to www.petplace.com and entering the
below subject in the search engine. This is only the first page of three
if you want to read the rest.

Protrusion of Third Eyelid in Cats
By: Dr. Noelle McNabb

Section: Overview

Protrusion, prolapse or elevation of the third eyelid refers to the
abnormal elevation of the smooth inner eyelid that is located between
the cornea and the inside corner of the eyelids closest to the nose. The
third eyelid (TE) is usually retracted beneath the eyelids and barely
noticeable. The third eyelid is also sometimes called the membrana
nictitans or nictitating membrane.

Numerous disorders affecting the eye, TE and soft tissues behind the eye
can result in TE protrusion. Therefore, TE protrusion represents a
nonspecific symptom of ophthalmic disease that warrants further
diagnostic evaluation.

The causes of protrusion of the TE fall into several categories:

# Decreased or loss of function of the nerve supply to the smooth
muscles of the TE and those surrounding the eyeball, from certain
neurologic or systemic diseases

# Relaxation of the muscles arou
nd the eyeball that work to keep the TE in the retracted position, from
the use of tranquilizers, from poor physical health, etc.

# Weakening of the ligament of the gland of the third eyelid with
secondary glandular enlargement and prolapse (also known as cherry eye)

# Tumors, cysts or inflammatory diseases of the TE

# Any source of ocular (eye) pain that stimulates retraction of the eye
deeper into the orbit (bony cavity in the skull or eye socket)

# Any cause of settling of the eye deeper into the bony socket, such as
from dehydration, weight loss, or changes in the structures behind the eye

# Abnormally small sized eye. Small eyes may occur as congenital birth
defects or may arise from shrinkage of the eye following severe trauma
or inflammation.

# Presence of a mass, such as a tumor, cyst, infection or inflammation
within the orbit, and pushing the eye and the TE forward

What to Watch For

# Increased prominence and elevation of the smooth inner membrane
located at the inside corner of the eyelids
# Other signs are dependent upon the cause of the prolapse. They may
include squinting, tearing, changes in pupil size, alterations in the
size or position of the eyeball, discoloration of the third eyelid, and
deformities of the third eyelid.

# The condition may affect one or both third eyelids.

Diagnosis

Diagnostic tests may include one or more of the following:

# Complete medical history and physical examination

# Complete ophthalmic examination including testing of pupillary light
reflexes, Schirmer tear test, fluorescein staining of the cornea,
tonometry to measure the pressure within the eye, and examination of the
interior of the eye under magnification. Your veterinarian may refer
your cat to a veterinary ophthalmologist for further evaluation using
specialized instrumentation.

# The third eyelid itself may be examined with a forceps after
application of a local anesthetic.

# Neurologic examination to assess the presence of neurologic disease

# Complete blood count (CBC) and serum biochemistry tests to evaluate
the underlying cause and identify any related problems

# Skull X-rays to determine the presence of a bony orbital or sinus problem

# Ultrasound examination of the eye and soft tissues within the orbit
behind the eye

# Specialized imaging tests such as computed tomography (CT) scan and
magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) of the eye, orbit and brain

Treatment

Successful treatment requires obtaining an accurate diagnosis as to the
cause. No symptomatic therapy can be initiated until the precise cause
of TE elevation is identified.

Home Care

Vision is not usually compromised unless the third eyelid covers more
than half of the eye. The underlying cause of the prolapse may affect
vision, however. Confine your pet to a safe area until the cause of the
problem is determined.

Do not administer human over-the-counter medications, such as Visine® or
other ophthalmic remedies intended to "reduce eye redness" or
irritation, because these medications rarely help the problem and may
make diagnosis of the cause more difficult.

6) http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=482
   
THE PET HEALTH LIBRARY
By Wendy C. Brooks, DVM, DipABVP
Educational Director, VeterinaryPartner.com

Print this article  Save this article to disk  Email this article

What is Horner's Syndrome?

Horner's syndrome consists of five signs:

    * Constricted pupil
    * Elevation of the third eyelid
    * Retraction of the eyeball into the head
    * Slight drooping of the eyelid
    * Increased pink color and warmth of the ear and nose on the
affected side (very hard to detect in small animals)

All these signs are caused by damage to sympathetic nervous system as it
supplies the eye on the affected side of the head.

What is the Sympathetic Nervous System?

Our bodies have numerous functions that are controlled by our nervous
systems yet we are completely unaware of them. Our heart and respiratory
rates, the amount of sweat and other secretions we produce, circulation
to different body areas, pupil dilation and constriction are all
regulated by our nervous systems automatically and without our knowledge
or control. The part of our nervous system dedicated to these automatic
systems is called the autonomic nervous system.

The autonomic nervous system is divided into the sympathetic nervous
system and the parasympathetic nervous system. The parasympathetic
system maintains a status quo, normal, business as usual state; the
sympathetic system prepares the body for a fight or flight situation.
Some changes that might be stimulated by the sympathetic system include:
increased sweating, dilated pupils, increased heart rate, and increased
blood flow to muscles. Both systems coexist in balance in the healthy body.

When the sympathetic system controlling one of the eyes is damaged, only
the parasympathetic nerves work and Horner's syndrome is created.

How Can the Sympathetic Damage Occur?   

The nerve carrying the tiny nerve fibers that provide sympathetic
control to the eye have a long path and the damage may have occurred
anywhere along this path.

The nerves originate in the spinal cord in the patient's neck. They exit
the spinal cord just inside the chest and travel up the neck to the
head. These nerves then connect to new nerves just below the ear. The
new nerves continue their journey to the eye. The damage can occur in
the neck area, the ear area or the eye area. Damage can occur in the
form of trauma, tumor involvement, infarction (abnormal blood clot),
middle ear infection, or diseases of the eye itself.

Sorting it Out

Localizing which area of the sympathetic nerve system is affected goes a
long way in determining the nature of the damage as different areas of
the system are prone to different types of injury. Special eye drops can
be used to stimulate different areas of the nervous system and determine
if the lesion is in the first nerve segment or in the second nerve
segment. Most are in the second nerve segment.

With second nerve segment involvement: If ear infection is not obvious
and disease of the eye beyond the Horner's syndrome itself is not
obvious, then it is probably prudent to allow the syndrome to resolve on
its own. This usually occurs within 6 to 8 weeks. Further diagnostics
may be undertaken if new developments occur or if the syndrome persists
beyond this time.

With first nerve segment involvement: Involvement of the first nerve
segment indicates a problem in the chest or spinal cord and is more
significant. Chest radiographs should be taken to rule out cancer spread
to the chest (the only sign of this may be the Horner's syndrome). The
front leg should be carefully checked for evidence of function loss as a
tumor or protruding intervertebral disc could be exerting pressure on
the spinal cord. Trauma to the neck as with a strong jerk from a collar
or straining against a leash can also produce Horner's syndrome from
this section of the nerve. Generally more diagnostic work is needed for
cases involving the first nerve segment as there is potential for more
serious underlying causes. If the syndrome stemmed from pulling on the
leash, it should resolve uneventfully depending on how badly damaged the
nerve is.

Treatment

It is not necessary to treat Horner's syndrome. The syndrome is not
painful and does not interfere with vision. The significance of the
syndrome is that it indicates nerve damage which must be recognized. If
one wishes to treat the syndrome for cosmetic reasons, phenylephrine eye
drops can be prescribed to relieve clinical signs.

Causes of Protrusion of the Third Eyelid

I am commonly asked about animals with protruding third eyelids.
Possible reasons for the third eyelid to become prominent include the
following.

Horner's Syndrome
Usually only one eye is involved although it is possible for both eyes
to be involved. As described above, there are additional features of
this syndrome.

Tetanus
With this disease, the third eyelids tend to "flash" up as if to replace
normal blinking. Twitching and stiffness are also features and are worse
if the animal is startled. Event hough this is the result of an
anaerobic infection of a wound by Clostridium tetani, most owners are
not aware of the wound (which may have appeared to heal even weeks
before). Cats are resistant to tetanus so this would be an unusual cause
of third eyelid elevation in a cat.

Facial Paralysis
The facial nerve controls the movements of facial expression including
blinking. To protect the eye, the third eyelid may come up and the eye
may be pulled back in the socket somewhat. Facial paralysis commonly
results from severe ear infections.

Haws Syndrome
Animals, particularly cats, may bring up their third eyelids in response
to illness, particularly intestinal irritation. Generally the third
eyelid remains elevated for 4 to 6 weeks and eventually goes back to normal.

Facial Muscle Atrophy
With loss of muscle in the face, particularly the chewing muscles, there
is nothing to hold the eye in its normal position and it will sink
slightly into the socket and the third eyelids will ride up.

Dehydration
In this situation dehydration must be fairly severe. The eyes sink into
their sockets and the third eyelids ride up.

Shrinkage of the Eye
A diseased eye will shrivel up and become very small. The third eyelid
will have nothing to hold it down and will ride up.

Feline Dysautonomia (Key-Gaskell Syndrome)
This is a rare neurologic disease which features dilated pupils,
elevated third eyelids, constipation, urine retention, and other issues.
This is a severe disruption of the sympathetic nervous system and
prognosis is very poor.

If your pet's third eyelids protrude, please see your veterinarian to
sort out these possible causes.

Date Published: 1/23/2001
Date Reviewed/Revised: 11/05/2004

7) http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/torovirus.html

Third Eyelid Syndrome and Torovirus

Third eyelid syndrome has long been recognized in cats, but until
recently, nothing was known about the cause.

What are the symptoms?

The symptoms of this disease are generally mild. Guardians often panic
that their cats are suffering from Feline Influenza (Feline Viral
Rhinotracheitis - FVR), but this is not the case - it's more like an
upper respiratory infection than the flu.

         1. Protruding nicitating membranes (haws, third eyelids):
These usually only protrude part of the way across the eyes, rather than
covering the eyeball completely. The eyes may seem watery, perhaps with
a little clear discharge (like tears).
         2. Diarrhea: This is not always obvious in a cat unless he
always uses a litter box (i.e. never go outside unaccompanied), has
fecal soiling of the fur around the anus or has an accident in the
house. It may persist for days, weeks or months.
         3. Sneezing: This is not a universal symptom, and often
manifests as single, rather than repeated, sneezes.
         4. Other General Signs. These include vomiting, drowsiness,
slight fever, irritability, anorexia (loss of appetitie), and the cat
not feeling quite himself.

What is the causative agent?

The cause of this condition is a virus. The Torovirus is a member of the
same family of viruses as the Coronaviruses. A Coronavirus is the cause
of Feline Infectious Peritonitis (FIP), but the Torovirus is much
milder. The condition is usually mild and self limiting.

Can Torovirus cause disease in other mammals?

Toroviruses cause diseases in man and many animals, including cows and
cats. It is disputed whether the diarrhea in the feline infection is
caused by secondary bacterial infection or the virus. More than likely,
it is caused by the virus, simply because Toroviruses causes
gastrointestinal symptoms in other animals.

As with any viral illness, there is a possibility of secondary bacterial
infection - this may manifest itself as rhinitis, conjunctivitis,
pneumonia or gastroenteritis most commonly, although as the cat will be
run down, any infection is more likely to develop.

What is the treatment of Torovirus?

Treatment of Torovirus infection is generally supportive - that is,
keeping the cat comfortable by providing plenty of fresh water to drink
(prevent dehydration from the diarrhea and fever), a bland diet (eg:
chicken or white fish, rice, or a prescription diet) to rest the gut
following a 24 hour fast if diarrhea is severe and there is any
discharge from the eyes. Some veterinarians will prescribe antibiotics
to prevent or treat a secondary bacterial infection. If diarrhea is
persistant, then corticosteroid tablets may be used to dampen the gut
inflammation.

However, like the common cold in their guardians, Torovirus infection is
usually mild and self limiting, lasting 5 to 10 days.

Pat,
After reading this entire thread I would like to know if Abelard has
urinated at all. Loss of motor control and seizuring can be signs of a
urinary blockage. Did the vet check his bladder? Have you seen him
urinate at all? Do you know how to feel for a bladder? If not you
should have the vet show you. It is a skill that every cat owner
should have. You can try by feeling in the abdomen area just in front
of the back legs (here is a pic to give you an idea of exactly where
it is located: http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/ClientED/anatomy/cat_ug.aspx
). You'll have to push up a bit with your fingers on either side and
then grasp and feel. If it is really full and he is not urinating you
will need to find an emergency clinic ASAP. Did they do bloodwork? If
not they should as that can offer clues as to what's going on and at
this point you can't afford not to. You also might want to take stock
of plants as there are many that are toxic to cats and ingestion of a
toxic plant might be a reason for this incident.

sending the strongest purrs my girls are capable of sending

? I'm asking for your strongest and best purrs for my

Our very strongest and bestest purrs are coming for Abelard

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous  Furballs

Sending our strongest purrs for Abelard.
Keeping all thumbs pressed that everything will work out ok.

Bettina

Purring and praying with all our might for our sweet buddy Aby, and for you.

You had a jar of hydrochloric acid sitting out in an open jar?  For two
years!!?  How did you not see it in all that time?

Purrs that Abelard recovers.

Hugs,

CatNipped