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Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 04:41 GMT
it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its
either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the
event I will need to provide treatment for this I have been thinking about
quality of life issues for tiger.  So far I have considered the following.-
-Tiger can't be away from us long enough to get the radiation treatment, he
was
boarded for 5 days a couple of years back and refused to eat for 3 days, the
vet finally bought him some really junky food to con him into eating so
being away from us that long and out of his environment is just out of the
question.
-surgery is questionable to me as he is at least 11 and probably closer to
15 so the age issue plays in here.

-The pill solution is the one that gives me the most trouble, it does not
involve separation or anesthesia but he becomes so upset at taking any sort
of pill he literally foams at the mouth and hurkes everywhere, he gets so
upset he even sometimes wets on himself... giving him a pill on a daily
basis does not seem to me to be a very good quality of life for him.

so far I have considered, either not treating him or going with the
surgery... if I don't treat him I am not sure how uncomfortable he would be,
and if he has the surgery and makes it then his quality of life would be
fine, and I have also thought we might try the pills to see if they don't
bother him, but my gut says they will, what would you do, or do you have a
suggestion I have missed,

Lee
Victor Martinez - 25 Apr 2008 04:50 GMT
> fine, and I have also thought we might try the pills to see if they don't
> bother him, but my gut says they will, what would you do, or do you have a
> suggestion I have missed,

To me, it's always going to be about the quality of life of the cat.
Look deep in your heart, and you will know what you need to do. Are a
few days of serious discomfort worth the best treatment? Are a few hours
of discomfort worth the other option? Do you know if he's in pain? Those
are the questions you need to answer, and nobody but you can answer
them. We can only offer our purrs.

Signature

Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov
Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com

Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 04:55 GMT
he is right now not in any discomfort at all but since he gets these blood
test every few months I always think about this, I know the one treatment
where he has to be away for at least a week will not work, he was refusing
to eat and pulling out his hair and all of the other cats were with him, so
that one is out, the surgery has the plus of being over and done with, the
down side is that at his age he might not wake up,  but pilling him I am
afraid would make him not want to wake up, and you are absolutely right
here, it is totally about his quality of life, and I was really hoping
someone would think of something I haven't, thanks so much for reading and
your support, Lee
> > fine, and I have also thought we might try the pills to see if they don't
> > bother him, but my gut says they will, what would you do, or do you have a
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov
> Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com
Jo Firey - 25 Apr 2008 05:32 GMT
> it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its
> either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> Lee

Have you ever tried Pill Pockets for him?  I would never have believed it
but Jake actually likes them.  (I wouldn't even write or say such a thing
lest evil hear me, but I can pill him fairly easily if he decides not to
like them anymore)

Jo
Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 06:09 GMT
have not tried them but it would be worth a shot, because if he could take a
pill with small stress this would be safest for him and the best quality of
life, thank you so much, Lee

> > it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its
> > either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
> Jo
Marina - 25 Apr 2008 08:06 GMT
> it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its
> either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> bother him, but my gut says they will, what would you do, or do you have a
> suggestion I have missed,

I don't know if I have any useful sugestions, since you are the one who
are there and knows Tiger, but both Frank and Nikki had hyperthyroidism
the last few years of their lives (neither one died from it).

What I did was crush the pills and mix them into something they loved,
usually just a teaspoon of sour cream. They used to look forward to
their 'treats' and Frank even used to remind me if I was late with their
meds. I take thyroxin pills myself, and the recommendation is to chew
them so they are absorbed more easily, and they are nearly flavourless -
just slightly sweet. Though the hyperthyroidism med is the opposite of
what I'm taking, I suspect they are just as bland and the cat may not
even notice it if mixed into something. I also used sardines and tuna
every once in a while.

Signature

Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.

Joy - 25 Apr 2008 08:51 GMT
>> it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its
>> either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> I suspect they are just as bland and the cat may not even notice it if
> mixed into something. I also used sardines and tuna every once in a while.

Lindy's thyroid is low, and she has medication twice a day.  I was able to
get her medication in liquid form.  She doesn't like it, but doesn't hate it
nearly as much as she does pills.  Also, unlike pills, once you get the
liquid into their mouth, you know they have gotten the medication.  You
aren't going to find it on the floor later, as you may a pill.

Joy
Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 08:57 GMT
I have no idea why I didn't think it would be available in liquid form,
thank you, Lee
> >> it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its
> >> either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
>
> Joy
PixieDust413 - 25 Apr 2008 18:35 GMT
Lee,

Medication for hyperthyroid IS available in liquid form.  Kitty
Schottland gets it twice a day.  Depending on what your vet
prescribes, it may even be chicken-flavored!

Debby

> I have no idea why I didn't think it would be available in liquid form,
> thank you, LeeJoy <toas...@real-me.net> wrote in message
Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 21:14 GMT
thank you, so much, Lee
Lee,

Medication for hyperthyroid IS available in liquid form.  Kitty
Schottland gets it twice a day.  Depending on what your vet
prescribes, it may even be chicken-flavored!

Debby

On Apr 25, 3:57 am, "Stormmee" <rgr...@consolidated.net> wrote:
> I have no idea why I didn't think it would be available in liquid form,
> thank you, LeeJoy <toas...@real-me.net> wrote in message
Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 08:56 GMT
thank you, if it were flavorless enough and crushing it wouldn't hurt the
medication factor, I could get him to eat it in butter or sour cream, Lee
> > it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its
> > either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> --
> Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
Yowie - 25 Apr 2008 12:04 GMT
> it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far
> its either been high normal or borderline, and so far no
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> see if they don't bother him, but my gut says they will, what would
> you do, or do you have a suggestion I have missed,

Go with your gut. If it is clear that whatever you do, the rest of his
future is filled with pain and suffering from one source or another, you
know what what decision has to be made.

I think I'd try the surgery if it was likely to be successful, but it it was
overly risky,then perhaps I'd just let Tiger live out the rest of his days
in aloving and peaceful atmsphere, and pay very close attention for the day
he *asks* to go.

One of my deepest anxieties is that I think Shmogg asked me to let him go
the theBridge several months before I got up the guts to do what he wanted
me to do. I still worry I let him suffer needlessly out of my own
selfishness.

Yowie
Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 21:10 GMT
please don't feel guilty, they are cats, they know you have to have time to
adjust, and of all the beings on this earth he knew you loved him, so he
probably asked to go before he needed to go so you could have time to
adjust, and what you have written is how I am leaning, thank you, Lee
> > it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far
> > its either been high normal or borderline, and so far no
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> Yowie
polonca12000 - 29 Apr 2008 22:44 GMT
 > One of my deepest anxieties is that I think Shmogg asked me to let
him go
> the theBridge several months before I got up the guts to do what he wanted
> me to do. I still worry I let him suffer needlessly out of my own
> selfishness.
>
> Yowie

Please don't be so hard on yourself, Vicky. You loved him so much and
when we love, we cannot bear the thought of losing the one we love. You
did the very best you could for him.
Lots of purrs and hugs,
Polonca and Soncek
Daniel Mahoney - 25 Apr 2008 14:24 GMT
> -The pill solution is the one that gives me the most trouble, it does not
> involve separation or anesthesia but he becomes so upset at taking any sort
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Lee

Is the medication that he might have to be given one that can be prepared
in a transdermal form? I know that Prozac and several other veterinary
meds can be compounded in a form that is rubbed into the inside of the ear
and absorbed through the skin. That might be pretty untraumatic for him.

Dan
22brix - 25 Apr 2008 20:43 GMT
>> -The pill solution is the one that gives me the most trouble, it does not
>> involve separation or anesthesia but he becomes so upset at taking any
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Dan

Yes it is.  I had a hyperthyroid cat who became nauseated with the pill.  A
compounding pharmacy made it for us--it bypasses the GI tract so doesn't
cause the lack of appetite and nausea the pill can cause.  Also, my cat
tolerated it much better than trying to pill her.

I have a hyperthyroid cat now that will take the pill in smelly canned food!
In fact he looks at it as a treat.

Bonnie
Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 21:28 GMT
thank you, Lee

> >> -The pill solution is the one that gives me the most trouble, it does not
> >> involve separation or anesthesia but he becomes so upset at taking any
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> Bonnie
Bucky and Susie - 26 Apr 2008 21:40 GMT
There is also a topical med. for hyperthyroidism.  I had a cat with the
disease that I treated for two years with this method------applied to
inner ear.  It too came from a compound phamacist.
Stormmee - 26 Apr 2008 23:52 GMT
hank you this is good to know, Lee
> There is also a topical med. for hyperthyroidism.  I had a cat with the
> disease that I treated for two years with this method------applied to
> inner ear.  It too came from a compound phamacist.
hopitus - 27 Apr 2008 19:28 GMT
> hank you this is good to know, Lee
>
> > There is also a topical med. for hyperthyroidism.  I had a cat with the
> > disease that I treated for two years with this method------applied to
> > inner ear.  It too came from a compound phamacist.

Please consider oral (or otherwise, ear?) meds for your cat to enable
him to stay with you longer. With enormous self-control I assert that
if being "on pills" was a downer to one's quality of life, I shoulda
done
myself in a long time ago; the many "pills" I take are keeping me
alive.
Not that anyone needs to hear this; I just want you o rethink that
conclusion. OTOH I have "pilled" for years a high-strung "meezer" cat
- yes, Oliver - it was neither easy nor pleasant but it kept him
alive,and
he got used to it. Another person helping is good.
Here is another idea: one of the ways we radiation workers learn to
avoid
overexposure to radiation is "distance". If you scheduled your cat for
the
surgery (in hoomins "surgery" means cutting out the thyroid gland,
"surgery" =
and there is no radiation involved. Now, in animals, maybe they use
the
alternative method hoomins have for overactive thyroid - a radiation
"pill"
which is so strong it "kills" the gland, rendering it inoperative.
Both
methods necessitate patient taking "thyroid pills" (Synthroid brand
name)
for the rest of their life. Matt is right....cat is radioactive for a
limited time
if they use the "pill surgery" BUT your vet may permit - to remove
himelf
from liability, hopefully - you to sign some form of *waiver* so you
could
take your cat home to recover *right after awakening* and all you
would
have to do would be keep him somewhere (small room, porch?) he would
be away from all living creatures, including you, till the pill's
influence
is gone. BTW what a dose would be to kill a cat's thyroid would LOL
not
kill you much less have much real danger. I'd do it if I had to but
all I
want to do is inform you here of possibilities.
Being on pills has actually improved my quality of life, LOL...I'm not
dead.
Stormmee - 28 Apr 2008 01:47 GMT
thank you for your information, and in general I agree, if its a week long
thing or if I can get liquids I have no trouble with medicating, you just
have no idea with this one, this isn't regular fighting, puking up the pill,
this is full blown hysterics, including but not limited to , paw sweating,
shivering to the point you think he is having a seizure, screaming, clawing
biting, and panting/high heart rate that concerned the vet once when she
pilled him.  I would do anything within his tolerance levels to keep him
happy and alive, he is a true joy to me, and when I see how far he has come
I am proud of DH, Tiger and me, the best option so far appears to be that
topical stuff for his ears,  again, thanks
> > hank you this is good to know, Lee
> >
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> Being on pills has actually improved my quality of life, LOL...I'm not
> dead.
Suzanne - 28 Apr 2008 17:35 GMT
When Peter (RB) was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism his vet prescribed
Methimazole in a liver-flavored chew, which he LOVED!  (Info:
http://www.varietypetmeds.com/catspg.htm and
http://www.bcpvetpharm.com/products_vetchews.htm.)

I ultimately had him treated with radioactive iodine (I-131), which
completely cured him.  (Info:
http://thyrocat.com/inside/radioactive-iodine.html.)

Suzanne

> thank you, Lee
>>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>>
>> Bonnie
Stormmee - 28 Apr 2008 22:45 GMT
thank you, Lee
> When Peter (RB) was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism his vet prescribed
> Methimazole in a liver-flavored chew, which he LOVED!  (Info:
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
> >>
> >> Bonnie
Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 21:12 GMT
this is something I will put on the list to ask the vet, I hadn't even
considered liquids, which he doesn't like but tolerates much better, I am
trying to prepare myself for the test results and this has helped me
tremendously, Lee
> > -The pill solution is the one that gives me the most trouble, it does not
> > involve separation or anesthesia but he becomes so upset at taking any sort
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Dan
alisont - 25 Apr 2008 15:06 GMT
With Tigger's last illness I couldn't get a pill in her for anything.  She
doesn't like soft treats so pill pockets were out and the pill shooter wasn't
quick enough.  The vet was able to get a pharmacy to make me a liquid version
of the medicine.  It also came with a really great syringe type dispenser.
so much better than an eyedropper.  I would just fill it and scruffed Tigger
and as soon as she opened her mouth to complain just press the plunger and
done.  They also made it chicken flavored so while she didn't like getting it
squirted in her mouth she always seemed slightly surprised and pleased at the
taste.

>it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its
>either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
>Lee

Signature

http://www.serenityscenes.com/

Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 21:13 GMT
thank you this is another option I have written down to discuss with the
vet, Lee
> With Tigger's last illness I couldn't get a pill in her for anything.  She
> doesn't like soft treats so pill pockets were out and the pill shooter wasn't
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> Message posted via http://www.catkb.com
Matthew - 25 Apr 2008 20:30 GMT
Lee  Phantom is the same way he just got diagnosed with hypothyroidism

He took a pill twice a day for about 30 days  than the vet did blood work
again.  He is a now once a day pill cat.  I found something that works
wonders  they are call pill pockets  chicken flavor  at petco easy to use
phantom gobbles them up

I order the medication through  www.drugstore.com

The vet was charging me 30 a month  through the website I get 100 days for
$30.  My vet does 2 refills  than Phantom needsto come back for blood work
to see if we can lower the level or raise it.

I was not to over all happy with the surgery process.  5 to 10 days to stay
with them during the radiation treatment.  the reason for so long is the cat
is radioactive and can pass it on to us  but once it is done they are cured

Lee the pharmacist can also make the medication into any form.  On person on
here told me about medication in paste form where they put it on the cats
ear

> it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its
> either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> Lee
Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 21:16 GMT
thank you, the radiation is really out because he has such bad separation
anxiety that being away any more than 48 hours would give him a nervous
break down, the vet was so worried when we boarded them she called me and
even went in to see him in the evening, thank you, Lee
> Lee  Phantom is the same way he just got diagnosed with hypothyroidism
>
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> >
> > Lee
Ginger-lyn - 27 Apr 2008 21:28 GMT
> it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its
> either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Lee

I'm so sorry you're in this dilemma, Lee.

From what I know about hyperthyroidism, and you probably already know
all this, the best option is the radiation.  But I imagine it is a
really difficult thing for any cat to go through, and it sounds like it
would be a terrible trauma for Tiger.  Maybe it wouldn't be as bad as
you are afraid?

Surgery is another option, but there are problems and complications with
it, IIRC, and it usually is third on the list of best options.

The pills are a good option for most people who can't be away from their
cat or vice versa and who are tight on cash.  From what I understand the
Tapazole works well and manages the disease.

I'm sure you've probably tried everything in terms of pills, but just in
case . . . can you mash pills in with food?  Can you dissolve them in
water, and then use a syringe to squirt the liquid into Tiger's mouth?
Phil P. over on rpch+b had a very specific way to give pills; I think it
involved treat, pill wrapped in meat, treat.  In that order.  Might that
work for Tiger?  Especially if it was wrapped in soft meat, he may not
even know he was taking a pill.

My own experience with pills is that they usually get used to it, even
though at first it may be difficult.  I never thought I would be able to
pill Cosmo on a daily basis (he's on Lasix for his heart, and he is one
of those cats that says "Don't Mess With Me" about much of anything, and
I've had the scratches and bites to show it), but we have managed to get
to a routine where he is very easy to pill.  Internet is on Prednisolone
for his asthma every other day, and he has always been terrible at
taking pills.  It's much easier than it used to be, although he still is
pretty darn good at spitting them out (even at age 20) -- lol.  He has
always been the worst meds-taker of the bunch.

There's also a suggestion of putting a little butter on the pill; pills
can irritate cats' throats, and that can make them upset.  Not to
mention I've never met a cat that didn't like butter yet.

I don't know if any of that helps, Lee; you're in a tough situation (or
may be), and I feel for you.

Purrs that somehow something works out.

Ginger-lyn
Stormmee - 28 Apr 2008 01:53 GMT
thank you for responding, and honestly we have tried everything but the pill
pockets and butter with him, he just won't take them, and he becomes so
upset he can only be described as hysterical, I do think this has to do with
his being thrown away, he is very neurotic and has several physiological
quirks,

As I have read all of these wonderful posts I realize that it really is out
of the question for him to be away for as long as the radiation would take,
and I think he is to old to be playing around with surgery. so I will simply
have to try and either get the ear stuff or the liquid, again thanks for
your post, all these posts mean a lot to me, Lee
> > it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its
> > either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the
[quoted text clipped - 68 lines]
>
> Ginger-lyn
Kyla  =^. .^= - 28 Apr 2008 03:01 GMT
"Ginger-lyn" <
>> it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its
>> either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> a terrible trauma for Tiger.  Maybe it wouldn't be as bad as you are
> afraid?

Oh geez, I have a hyperactive thyroid myself and have to take 100 mg of
Proporthyouriac (sp) a day for it or I pass out.  I call it my PPU pills.
And it's so blasted expensive when you have NO health insurance:/

> Surgery is another option, but there are problems and complications with
> it, IIRC, and it usually is third on the list of best options.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> work for Tiger?  Especially if it was wrapped in soft meat, he may not
> even know he was taking a pill.

Good advice:)

> My own experience with pills is that they usually get used to it, even
> though at first it may be difficult.  I never thought I would be able to
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> can irritate cats' throats, and that can make them upset.  Not to mention
> I've never met a cat that didn't like butter yet.

If I have to 'pill' a cat, I use the butter method, and it works:)

> I don't know if any of that helps, Lee; you're in a tough situation (or
> may be), and I feel for you.
>
> Purrs that somehow something works out.
>
> Ginger-lyn

Purrs from me too that something positive works out.
I'd try the pills first and see what happens.
Hug
Kyla
Stormmee - 28 Apr 2008 05:55 GMT
thank you, Lee
Kyla =^. .^= <kyla.waterman@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:POednU-fpcVhsojVnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@comcast.com...

> "Ginger-lyn" <
> >> it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its
[quoted text clipped - 91 lines]
> Hug
> Kyla
Enfilade - 28 Apr 2008 18:47 GMT
I would try the pills first, and get creative....crush them up, or try
a liquid medication, or hide them in treat food or pill pockets, or
something like that.

If he absolutely will not keep medicine down--only then would I take
the risk of trying the surgery.  But I'd spend several weeks on pill/
liquid medicine solutions first.

Many purrs,

--Fil

> > -The pill solution is the one that gives me the most trouble, it does not
> > involve separation or anesthesia but he becomes so upset at taking any sort
> > of pill he literally foams at the mouth and hurkes everywhere, he gets so
> > upset he even sometimes wets on himself... giving him a pill on a daily
> > basis does not seem to me to be a very good quality of life for him.
Stormmee - 28 Apr 2008 22:47 GMT
thank you, the only thing we haven't tried in the pill arena is those pill
pockets, I am so hoping they work, if I can get it in liquid or dermal form
he will permit that so it will work I am sure, thank you, Lee

> I would try the pills first, and get creative....crush them up, or try
> a liquid medication, or hide them in treat food or pill pockets, or
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> > > upset he even sometimes wets on himself... giving him a pill on a daily
> > > basis does not seem to me to be a very good quality of life for him.
polonca12000 - 29 Apr 2008 22:38 GMT
> it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its
> either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the
> event I will need to provide treatment for this I have been thinking about
> quality of life issues for tiger.<snip>
I have also thought we might try the pills to see if they don't
> bother him, but my gut says they will, what would you do, or do you have a
> suggestion I have missed,
>
> Lee

Maybe the pills can be made so that they taste pleasant to kitties?
Soncek was very hard to pill, so I hope you can find a solution that
will work for Tiger.
We are sending lots of purrs for Tiger and hugs for you, Lee,
Polonca and Soncek
Stormmee - 29 Apr 2008 22:57 GMT
thank you, Lee
> > it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its
> > either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> We are sending lots of purrs for Tiger and hugs for you, Lee,
> Polonca and Soncek
 
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