Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / April 2008
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Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 04:41 GMT it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the event I will need to provide treatment for this I have been thinking about quality of life issues for tiger. So far I have considered the following.- -Tiger can't be away from us long enough to get the radiation treatment, he was boarded for 5 days a couple of years back and refused to eat for 3 days, the vet finally bought him some really junky food to con him into eating so being away from us that long and out of his environment is just out of the question. -surgery is questionable to me as he is at least 11 and probably closer to 15 so the age issue plays in here.
-The pill solution is the one that gives me the most trouble, it does not involve separation or anesthesia but he becomes so upset at taking any sort of pill he literally foams at the mouth and hurkes everywhere, he gets so upset he even sometimes wets on himself... giving him a pill on a daily basis does not seem to me to be a very good quality of life for him.
so far I have considered, either not treating him or going with the surgery... if I don't treat him I am not sure how uncomfortable he would be, and if he has the surgery and makes it then his quality of life would be fine, and I have also thought we might try the pills to see if they don't bother him, but my gut says they will, what would you do, or do you have a suggestion I have missed,
Lee
Victor Martinez - 25 Apr 2008 04:50 GMT > fine, and I have also thought we might try the pills to see if they don't > bother him, but my gut says they will, what would you do, or do you have a > suggestion I have missed, To me, it's always going to be about the quality of life of the cat. Look deep in your heart, and you will know what you need to do. Are a few days of serious discomfort worth the best treatment? Are a few hours of discomfort worth the other option? Do you know if he's in pain? Those are the questions you need to answer, and nobody but you can answer them. We can only offer our purrs.
 Signature Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com
Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 04:55 GMT he is right now not in any discomfort at all but since he gets these blood test every few months I always think about this, I know the one treatment where he has to be away for at least a week will not work, he was refusing to eat and pulling out his hair and all of the other cats were with him, so that one is out, the surgery has the plus of being over and done with, the down side is that at his age he might not wake up, but pilling him I am afraid would make him not want to wake up, and you are absolutely right here, it is totally about his quality of life, and I was really hoping someone would think of something I haven't, thanks so much for reading and your support, Lee
> > fine, and I have also thought we might try the pills to see if they don't > > bother him, but my gut says they will, what would you do, or do you have a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov > Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com Jo Firey - 25 Apr 2008 05:32 GMT > it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its > either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Lee Have you ever tried Pill Pockets for him? I would never have believed it but Jake actually likes them. (I wouldn't even write or say such a thing lest evil hear me, but I can pill him fairly easily if he decides not to like them anymore)
Jo
Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 06:09 GMT have not tried them but it would be worth a shot, because if he could take a pill with small stress this would be safest for him and the best quality of life, thank you so much, Lee
> > it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its > > either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Jo Marina - 25 Apr 2008 08:06 GMT > it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its > either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > bother him, but my gut says they will, what would you do, or do you have a > suggestion I have missed, I don't know if I have any useful sugestions, since you are the one who are there and knows Tiger, but both Frank and Nikki had hyperthyroidism the last few years of their lives (neither one died from it).
What I did was crush the pills and mix them into something they loved, usually just a teaspoon of sour cream. They used to look forward to their 'treats' and Frank even used to remind me if I was late with their meds. I take thyroxin pills myself, and the recommendation is to chew them so they are absorbed more easily, and they are nearly flavourless - just slightly sweet. Though the hyperthyroidism med is the opposite of what I'm taking, I suspect they are just as bland and the cat may not even notice it if mixed into something. I also used sardines and tuna every once in a while.
 Signature Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
Joy - 25 Apr 2008 08:51 GMT >> it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its >> either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > I suspect they are just as bland and the cat may not even notice it if > mixed into something. I also used sardines and tuna every once in a while. Lindy's thyroid is low, and she has medication twice a day. I was able to get her medication in liquid form. She doesn't like it, but doesn't hate it nearly as much as she does pills. Also, unlike pills, once you get the liquid into their mouth, you know they have gotten the medication. You aren't going to find it on the floor later, as you may a pill.
Joy
Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 08:57 GMT I have no idea why I didn't think it would be available in liquid form, thank you, Lee
> >> it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its > >> either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Joy PixieDust413 - 25 Apr 2008 18:35 GMT Lee,
Medication for hyperthyroid IS available in liquid form. Kitty Schottland gets it twice a day. Depending on what your vet prescribes, it may even be chicken-flavored!
Debby
> I have no idea why I didn't think it would be available in liquid form, > thank you, LeeJoy <toas...@real-me.net> wrote in message Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 21:14 GMT thank you, so much, Lee Lee,
Medication for hyperthyroid IS available in liquid form. Kitty Schottland gets it twice a day. Depending on what your vet prescribes, it may even be chicken-flavored!
Debby
On Apr 25, 3:57 am, "Stormmee" <rgr...@consolidated.net> wrote:
> I have no idea why I didn't think it would be available in liquid form, > thank you, LeeJoy <toas...@real-me.net> wrote in message Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 08:56 GMT thank you, if it were flavorless enough and crushing it wouldn't hurt the medication factor, I could get him to eat it in butter or sour cream, Lee
> > it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its > > either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > -- > Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. Yowie - 25 Apr 2008 12:04 GMT > it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far > its either been high normal or borderline, and so far no [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > see if they don't bother him, but my gut says they will, what would > you do, or do you have a suggestion I have missed, Go with your gut. If it is clear that whatever you do, the rest of his future is filled with pain and suffering from one source or another, you know what what decision has to be made.
I think I'd try the surgery if it was likely to be successful, but it it was overly risky,then perhaps I'd just let Tiger live out the rest of his days in aloving and peaceful atmsphere, and pay very close attention for the day he *asks* to go.
One of my deepest anxieties is that I think Shmogg asked me to let him go the theBridge several months before I got up the guts to do what he wanted me to do. I still worry I let him suffer needlessly out of my own selfishness.
Yowie
Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 21:10 GMT please don't feel guilty, they are cats, they know you have to have time to adjust, and of all the beings on this earth he knew you loved him, so he probably asked to go before he needed to go so you could have time to adjust, and what you have written is how I am leaning, thank you, Lee
> > it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far > > its either been high normal or borderline, and so far no [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Yowie polonca12000 - 29 Apr 2008 22:44 GMT > One of my deepest anxieties is that I think Shmogg asked me to let him go
> the theBridge several months before I got up the guts to do what he wanted > me to do. I still worry I let him suffer needlessly out of my own > selfishness. > > Yowie Please don't be so hard on yourself, Vicky. You loved him so much and when we love, we cannot bear the thought of losing the one we love. You did the very best you could for him. Lots of purrs and hugs, Polonca and Soncek
Daniel Mahoney - 25 Apr 2008 14:24 GMT > -The pill solution is the one that gives me the most trouble, it does not > involve separation or anesthesia but he becomes so upset at taking any sort [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Lee Is the medication that he might have to be given one that can be prepared in a transdermal form? I know that Prozac and several other veterinary meds can be compounded in a form that is rubbed into the inside of the ear and absorbed through the skin. That might be pretty untraumatic for him.
Dan
22brix - 25 Apr 2008 20:43 GMT >> -The pill solution is the one that gives me the most trouble, it does not >> involve separation or anesthesia but he becomes so upset at taking any [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Dan Yes it is. I had a hyperthyroid cat who became nauseated with the pill. A compounding pharmacy made it for us--it bypasses the GI tract so doesn't cause the lack of appetite and nausea the pill can cause. Also, my cat tolerated it much better than trying to pill her.
I have a hyperthyroid cat now that will take the pill in smelly canned food! In fact he looks at it as a treat.
Bonnie
Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 21:28 GMT thank you, Lee
> >> -The pill solution is the one that gives me the most trouble, it does not > >> involve separation or anesthesia but he becomes so upset at taking any [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Bonnie Bucky and Susie - 26 Apr 2008 21:40 GMT There is also a topical med. for hyperthyroidism. I had a cat with the disease that I treated for two years with this method------applied to inner ear. It too came from a compound phamacist.
Stormmee - 26 Apr 2008 23:52 GMT hank you this is good to know, Lee
> There is also a topical med. for hyperthyroidism. I had a cat with the > disease that I treated for two years with this method------applied to > inner ear. It too came from a compound phamacist. hopitus - 27 Apr 2008 19:28 GMT > hank you this is good to know, Lee > > > There is also a topical med. for hyperthyroidism. I had a cat with the > > disease that I treated for two years with this method------applied to > > inner ear. It too came from a compound phamacist. Please consider oral (or otherwise, ear?) meds for your cat to enable him to stay with you longer. With enormous self-control I assert that if being "on pills" was a downer to one's quality of life, I shoulda done myself in a long time ago; the many "pills" I take are keeping me alive. Not that anyone needs to hear this; I just want you o rethink that conclusion. OTOH I have "pilled" for years a high-strung "meezer" cat - yes, Oliver - it was neither easy nor pleasant but it kept him alive,and he got used to it. Another person helping is good. Here is another idea: one of the ways we radiation workers learn to avoid overexposure to radiation is "distance". If you scheduled your cat for the surgery (in hoomins "surgery" means cutting out the thyroid gland, "surgery" = and there is no radiation involved. Now, in animals, maybe they use the alternative method hoomins have for overactive thyroid - a radiation "pill" which is so strong it "kills" the gland, rendering it inoperative. Both methods necessitate patient taking "thyroid pills" (Synthroid brand name) for the rest of their life. Matt is right....cat is radioactive for a limited time if they use the "pill surgery" BUT your vet may permit - to remove himelf from liability, hopefully - you to sign some form of *waiver* so you could take your cat home to recover *right after awakening* and all you would have to do would be keep him somewhere (small room, porch?) he would be away from all living creatures, including you, till the pill's influence is gone. BTW what a dose would be to kill a cat's thyroid would LOL not kill you much less have much real danger. I'd do it if I had to but all I want to do is inform you here of possibilities. Being on pills has actually improved my quality of life, LOL...I'm not dead.
Stormmee - 28 Apr 2008 01:47 GMT thank you for your information, and in general I agree, if its a week long thing or if I can get liquids I have no trouble with medicating, you just have no idea with this one, this isn't regular fighting, puking up the pill, this is full blown hysterics, including but not limited to , paw sweating, shivering to the point you think he is having a seizure, screaming, clawing biting, and panting/high heart rate that concerned the vet once when she pilled him. I would do anything within his tolerance levels to keep him happy and alive, he is a true joy to me, and when I see how far he has come I am proud of DH, Tiger and me, the best option so far appears to be that topical stuff for his ears, again, thanks
> > hank you this is good to know, Lee > > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > Being on pills has actually improved my quality of life, LOL...I'm not > dead. Suzanne - 28 Apr 2008 17:35 GMT When Peter (RB) was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism his vet prescribed Methimazole in a liver-flavored chew, which he LOVED! (Info: http://www.varietypetmeds.com/catspg.htm and http://www.bcpvetpharm.com/products_vetchews.htm.)
I ultimately had him treated with radioactive iodine (I-131), which completely cured him. (Info: http://thyrocat.com/inside/radioactive-iodine.html.)
Suzanne
> thank you, Lee >> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >> >> Bonnie Stormmee - 28 Apr 2008 22:45 GMT thank you, Lee
> When Peter (RB) was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism his vet prescribed > Methimazole in a liver-flavored chew, which he LOVED! (Info: [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > >> > >> Bonnie Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 21:12 GMT this is something I will put on the list to ask the vet, I hadn't even considered liquids, which he doesn't like but tolerates much better, I am trying to prepare myself for the test results and this has helped me tremendously, Lee
> > -The pill solution is the one that gives me the most trouble, it does not > > involve separation or anesthesia but he becomes so upset at taking any sort [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Dan alisont - 25 Apr 2008 15:06 GMT With Tigger's last illness I couldn't get a pill in her for anything. She doesn't like soft treats so pill pockets were out and the pill shooter wasn't quick enough. The vet was able to get a pharmacy to make me a liquid version of the medicine. It also came with a really great syringe type dispenser. so much better than an eyedropper. I would just fill it and scruffed Tigger and as soon as she opened her mouth to complain just press the plunger and done. They also made it chicken flavored so while she didn't like getting it squirted in her mouth she always seemed slightly surprised and pleased at the taste.
>it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its >either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >Lee
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Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 21:13 GMT thank you this is another option I have written down to discuss with the vet, Lee
> With Tigger's last illness I couldn't get a pill in her for anything. She > doesn't like soft treats so pill pockets were out and the pill shooter wasn't [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Message posted via http://www.catkb.com Matthew - 25 Apr 2008 20:30 GMT Lee Phantom is the same way he just got diagnosed with hypothyroidism
He took a pill twice a day for about 30 days than the vet did blood work again. He is a now once a day pill cat. I found something that works wonders they are call pill pockets chicken flavor at petco easy to use phantom gobbles them up
I order the medication through www.drugstore.com
The vet was charging me 30 a month through the website I get 100 days for $30. My vet does 2 refills than Phantom needsto come back for blood work to see if we can lower the level or raise it.
I was not to over all happy with the surgery process. 5 to 10 days to stay with them during the radiation treatment. the reason for so long is the cat is radioactive and can pass it on to us but once it is done they are cured
Lee the pharmacist can also make the medication into any form. On person on here told me about medication in paste form where they put it on the cats ear
> it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its > either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Lee Stormmee - 25 Apr 2008 21:16 GMT thank you, the radiation is really out because he has such bad separation anxiety that being away any more than 48 hours would give him a nervous break down, the vet was so worried when we boarded them she called me and even went in to see him in the evening, thank you, Lee
> Lee Phantom is the same way he just got diagnosed with hypothyroidism > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > > > Lee Ginger-lyn - 27 Apr 2008 21:28 GMT > it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its > either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Lee I'm so sorry you're in this dilemma, Lee.
From what I know about hyperthyroidism, and you probably already know all this, the best option is the radiation. But I imagine it is a really difficult thing for any cat to go through, and it sounds like it would be a terrible trauma for Tiger. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad as you are afraid?
Surgery is another option, but there are problems and complications with it, IIRC, and it usually is third on the list of best options.
The pills are a good option for most people who can't be away from their cat or vice versa and who are tight on cash. From what I understand the Tapazole works well and manages the disease.
I'm sure you've probably tried everything in terms of pills, but just in case . . . can you mash pills in with food? Can you dissolve them in water, and then use a syringe to squirt the liquid into Tiger's mouth? Phil P. over on rpch+b had a very specific way to give pills; I think it involved treat, pill wrapped in meat, treat. In that order. Might that work for Tiger? Especially if it was wrapped in soft meat, he may not even know he was taking a pill.
My own experience with pills is that they usually get used to it, even though at first it may be difficult. I never thought I would be able to pill Cosmo on a daily basis (he's on Lasix for his heart, and he is one of those cats that says "Don't Mess With Me" about much of anything, and I've had the scratches and bites to show it), but we have managed to get to a routine where he is very easy to pill. Internet is on Prednisolone for his asthma every other day, and he has always been terrible at taking pills. It's much easier than it used to be, although he still is pretty darn good at spitting them out (even at age 20) -- lol. He has always been the worst meds-taker of the bunch.
There's also a suggestion of putting a little butter on the pill; pills can irritate cats' throats, and that can make them upset. Not to mention I've never met a cat that didn't like butter yet.
I don't know if any of that helps, Lee; you're in a tough situation (or may be), and I feel for you.
Purrs that somehow something works out.
Ginger-lyn
Stormmee - 28 Apr 2008 01:53 GMT thank you for responding, and honestly we have tried everything but the pill pockets and butter with him, he just won't take them, and he becomes so upset he can only be described as hysterical, I do think this has to do with his being thrown away, he is very neurotic and has several physiological quirks,
As I have read all of these wonderful posts I realize that it really is out of the question for him to be away for as long as the radiation would take, and I think he is to old to be playing around with surgery. so I will simply have to try and either get the ear stuff or the liquid, again thanks for your post, all these posts mean a lot to me, Lee
> > it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its > > either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > Ginger-lyn Kyla =^. .^= - 28 Apr 2008 03:01 GMT "Ginger-lyn" <
>> it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its >> either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > a terrible trauma for Tiger. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad as you are > afraid? Oh geez, I have a hyperactive thyroid myself and have to take 100 mg of Proporthyouriac (sp) a day for it or I pass out. I call it my PPU pills. And it's so blasted expensive when you have NO health insurance:/
> Surgery is another option, but there are problems and complications with > it, IIRC, and it usually is third on the list of best options. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > work for Tiger? Especially if it was wrapped in soft meat, he may not > even know he was taking a pill. Good advice:)
> My own experience with pills is that they usually get used to it, even > though at first it may be difficult. I never thought I would be able to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > can irritate cats' throats, and that can make them upset. Not to mention > I've never met a cat that didn't like butter yet. If I have to 'pill' a cat, I use the butter method, and it works:)
> I don't know if any of that helps, Lee; you're in a tough situation (or > may be), and I feel for you. > > Purrs that somehow something works out. > > Ginger-lyn Purrs from me too that something positive works out. I'd try the pills first and see what happens. Hug Kyla
Stormmee - 28 Apr 2008 05:55 GMT thank you, Lee Kyla =^. .^= <kyla.waterman@comcast.net> wrote in message news:POednU-fpcVhsojVnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> "Ginger-lyn" < > >> it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > Hug > Kyla Enfilade - 28 Apr 2008 18:47 GMT I would try the pills first, and get creative....crush them up, or try a liquid medication, or hide them in treat food or pill pockets, or something like that.
If he absolutely will not keep medicine down--only then would I take the risk of trying the surgery. But I'd spend several weeks on pill/ liquid medicine solutions first.
Many purrs,
--Fil
> > -The pill solution is the one that gives me the most trouble, it does not > > involve separation or anesthesia but he becomes so upset at taking any sort > > of pill he literally foams at the mouth and hurkes everywhere, he gets so > > upset he even sometimes wets on himself... giving him a pill on a daily > > basis does not seem to me to be a very good quality of life for him. Stormmee - 28 Apr 2008 22:47 GMT thank you, the only thing we haven't tried in the pill arena is those pill pockets, I am so hoping they work, if I can get it in liquid or dermal form he will permit that so it will work I am sure, thank you, Lee
> I would try the pills first, and get creative....crush them up, or try > a liquid medication, or hide them in treat food or pill pockets, or [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > > upset he even sometimes wets on himself... giving him a pill on a daily > > > basis does not seem to me to be a very good quality of life for him. polonca12000 - 29 Apr 2008 22:38 GMT > it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its > either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the > event I will need to provide treatment for this I have been thinking about > quality of life issues for tiger.<snip> I have also thought we might try the pills to see if they don't
> bother him, but my gut says they will, what would you do, or do you have a > suggestion I have missed, > > Lee Maybe the pills can be made so that they taste pleasant to kitties? Soncek was very hard to pill, so I hope you can find a solution that will work for Tiger. We are sending lots of purrs for Tiger and hugs for you, Lee, Polonca and Soncek
Stormmee - 29 Apr 2008 22:57 GMT thank you, Lee
> > it will soon be time to take tiger for his thyroid blood test, so far its > > either been high normal or borderline, and so far no medication... in the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > We are sending lots of purrs for Tiger and hugs for you, Lee, > Polonca and Soncek
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