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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / April 200810 Things Your Veterinarian Won't Tell You
http://www.smartmoney.com/10things/index.cfm?story=september2005&nav=ibs&ibshatk ey=orlpn > http://www.smartmoney.com/10things/index.cfm?story=september2005&nav=... WHAT??? This was an interesting article, but the 'things' are totally over the top and i honestly don't know why any vet would even talk like that. The points are quite valid, and there IS some useful information but the article is extremely blunt and the tone I do not agree with. Of course there are a lot of quacks out there. But most vets are NOT out to get your money. I deal with angry client complaining about the prices all the time and I can say at least for my clinic we are NOT out for people's money, despite what people say. This article kinda rubs me the wrong way. There was an 'Expose' done on veterinarians in the Los Angeles area and my staff watched it and feel it was total BS. Vets do NOT run unnecessary diagnostics in order to pad your bill. Every veterinarian has a different approach to diagnosing/treating a certain condition. People expect results, so when they have to pay a for a special test and it comes back negative. They get pissed off. But then again, if the cat wasn't sick and the basic diagnostics aren't giving the doctors the information so they can figure out why the cat isn't eating, then the next step are the more specialized tests to find out more information and/or rule out certain conditions. Medicine, whether people or veterinary, is NOT an exact science. Certain people need to stop thinking that when their animal's blood/ urine goes trough the lab equipment that a little sign is going to pop out with the precise answer. (okay that's an extreme example but you get the idea) Medicine also isn't guesswork. The whole point of diagnostics is to find out what is going on internally and to help the vet diagnose the problem. Without them, there really isn't much a vet can do beside treat the symptoms. Some parts I do agree with. Yes you should do your research, and specialists are called that for a reason. I have had some people balk at leaving their animals overnight because there is no one there, but I do make a point to tell the client that. Okay rant over, but some of these things just really irk me. thanks, Kristi >> http://www.smartmoney.com/10things/index.cfm?story=september2005&nav=... > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Kristi I'm glad your experiences have been with good vets. And I agree the far majority are good, and can make as much money as they want without unnecessary stuff. But there are some out there that have been to too many 'how to manage your practice' seminars and 'how to increase you profit while working fewer days a week' We have one that is pretty much known here in town. (Small town, his ex-employees can't stand him) Every dog or cat he has ever seen, needs its teeth cleaned. Every dog or cat that has ever had a dental has also been discovered to have ear mites. That will the treated and added to the bill as well. It pretty much goes on from there. Jo >> http://www.smartmoney.com/10things/index.cfm?story=september2005&nav=... > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Kristi You go, girl! You've got the inside track, the big scoop (er, not the litterbox kind LOL). (Alleged) journalists/reporters tick me off, more often than not. There's so much *fearmongering* (usually to foster some hidden political agenda). What's more important, the truth or a big catchy headline? You probably didn't get a chance to read my post about a reporter from Consumer Reports emailing me. She wanted to speak with me because she was writing an article about (and I quote) "in certain regions of the country, the health care system is run such that patients are given lots of very aggressive care, even though in the long run it doesn't seem to do them any good". I said she could call me; she never did. I may be wrong but I suspect it's because, in reading the accounts about my father more closely she realized the doctor was perfectly honest and up front with me. He did *not* suggest all sorts of aggressive treatment. In fact, he flat out discouraged it, citing quality of life issues. But that wouldn't have made the article very interesting, would it? (I also suspect a predisposed bias regarding "certain regions of the country". People in NY seem to think everyone in the southern U.S. is stupid.) Of course there are bad apples. They exist in every profession. But articles like this want to paint everyone with the same blue brush and it's very irritating. As for overnight stays at the vet, I DO think there should be someone there, Kristi. I know not every veterinary office does this but I think they should. There are too many things that can happen in the blink of an eye. On the flip side, however, IMO the mention of a dog chewing through spay sutures and proceeding to mangle itself to the point of needing to be PTS is probably a flat out lie. Keep in mind it was put forth by an attorney whose client sued. Still, there's always a tech at Persia's vet at night and on weekends, with a vet on call, too. Her vet doesn't take on *new* patients after hours; you are referred to the emergency clinic across the street for that (and yes, they are both affiliated with the American Animal Hospital Association mentioned in the other article). Still, there's someone there when they are closed to keep an eye on the ones who are being treated and the animals being boarded. I do think this is very important. Jill >>> http://www.smartmoney.com/10things/index.cfm?story=september2005&nav= >>> ... [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > You go, girl! You've got the inside track, the big scoop (er, not the > litterbox kind LOL). Incorrect; she has the inside track for where she works not all vets. > (Alleged) journalists/reporters tick me off, more often than not. > There's so much *fearmongering* (usually to foster some hidden > political agenda). What's more important, the truth or a big catchy > headline? I do not know about "usually" but it is never bad to understand the writers motivations. > You probably didn't get a chance to read my post about a reporter from > Consumer Reports emailing me. She wanted to speak with me because she [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > "certain regions of the country". People in NY seem to think everyone > in the southern U.S. is stupid.) This is a bias on _your_ part; people in NY are as varied as people anywhere. > Of course there are bad apples. They exist in every profession. But > articles like this want to paint everyone with the same blue brush and > it's very irritating. I did not see it that way as I said before. If all vets were bad there would be no point to much of the article. > As for overnight stays at the vet, I DO think there should be someone > there, Kristi. I know not every veterinary office does this but I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > point of needing to be PTS is probably a flat out lie. Keep in mind > it was put forth by an attorney whose client sued. This statement is as bad as the story if false since you have no basis for this beleief. It sounds like another bias on your part. If this did happen _should_ the vet should have been sued? > Still, there's always a tech at Persia's vet at night and on weekends, > with a vet on call, too. Her vet doesn't take on *new* patients after [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Jill I think you guys are confusing "my vet is good" with "all vets are good". Not all vets are good (not all doctors are good) and I see no problem in telling (or reminding) people that. Andy the New Yawker > I think you guys are confusing "my vet is good" with "all vets are good". > Not all vets are good (not all doctors are good) and I see no problem in > telling (or reminding) people that. > > Andy the New Yawker/// I've come across some truly shocking vets - vets I wouldn't take a dying cockroach too, let alone my precious furry masters. They've been rip-off merchants who don't really have a clue. OTOH, I've been to some fantastic vets who you can afford to trust with their opinion and act on it. Case in point - HRFL Tiger saw a vet who told me he had a severe heart murmer, serious hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and ordered a battery of tests, X-rays, ultrasounds etc, which I paid for quite willingly because I thought he needed it. I wasn't shown the actual x-rays or ultrasounds on diagnosis, I had to take the vets word for it, but he's apparently a good vet, so I do. I pay US$850 for the priviledge. I then did a follow-up visit with a NEW vet a year later, to check the Cardiomyopathy etc was no worse, and WAS shown HRFL's X-rays etc. Diagnosis was that first diagnosis was rubbish, because there was no way HRFL could be completely cured; that was what the second lot of results was showing, and the results were radically different to the first lot. We even did a second lot of tests to check the second vet was right! Yes, I feel ripped off by the first vet. Yes, I trust the second vet more. Both are professionals, both are as different as apples and oranges and you can't generalise. Helen M >> I think you guys are confusing "my vet is good" with "all vets are >> good". Not all vets are good (not all doctors are good) and I see no [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > some fantastic vets who you can afford to trust with their opinion and > act on it. Yup, I've been to good vets and bad vets. The 'bad' vet just did what she did and billed me, the 'good' vet explained his decision making process to me and let me decide what he should do. Oddly, the one I think is 'good' is one that a friend of mine thinks is 'bad' and the one I think is 'bad' is the one said friend thinks is 'good', for pretty much the same reasons - she just wants the vet to do what s/he thinks is best and doesn't like having to make the decisions herself, whereas I like being shown the options and being the one to decide. The vet that helped Shmogg to Rainbow Bridge was the best vet I have ever been to, not because of his vetinary ability (putting a sick cat to sleep isn't a high-skill procedure) but in the dignified and compassionate way he did it. And thats something the article didn't mention, the *relationship* between the vet, the patient, and the owners. You want to *trust* your vet like you trust your GP. If you don't trust your vet (or GP) find another - their skills and knowledge might be the same but you'll feel better about going to them. Yowie >>> I think you guys are confusing "my vet is good" with "all vets are >>> good". Not all vets are good (not all doctors are good) and I see no [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Yowie I like the same style as you for a vet or a doctor. I want to be involved in the treatment and decisions. I, also, totally agree about the skills vs relationship qualities. Client/Owner/Patient relationship is EXTREMELY important. Communication must exist on all levels. However, there DOES come a time where trust is an important factor too. I've seen many clients talk the vet's ear off with their concerns and questions about running diagnostic tests and I've heard vets spend long periods of times trying assure the client that their decision is based on info A, B, and C. And trust me it gets tedious, on both sides. > Client/Owner/Patient relationship is EXTREMELY important. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > decision is based on info A, B, and C. And trust me it gets tedious, > on both sides. Three ingredients are very helpful - trust, communication and common sense. Joy Joy <toastie@real-me.net> wrote in message: 2uHHj.1821$ph.1674@fe117.usenetserver.com, > Three ingredients are very helpful - trust, communication and common > sense. > Joy The last one (common sense) is something you do not have.  SignatureBilly Colburn > Oddly, the one I think is 'good' is one that a friend of mine thinks is > 'bad' and the one I think is 'bad' is the one said friend thinks is 'good', > for pretty much the same reasons - The practice I use is one of a group and friends gasp when I mention I take my cats to them- they've got a bad reputation for anything ranging from carelessness up to keeping animals alive when it's not in their best interests just so they can get more cash out of the Human- I've said here before the sad story of Jaws and the vet that manipulated my friend's wife with lines like "You do love him dont you?You do want the best for him? If you don't try this other treatment then you are giiving up on him" etc. etc. Result 3 miserable years of life for a cat that should have crossed the Bridge and a HUGE vet bill and that was at a practice in the same group as my vet But I've never heard anything bad about the branch I use and the vet I use is great so I'll stick with them Lesley Slave of the Fabulous Furballs > I think you guys are confusing "my vet is good" with "all vets are good". > Not all vets are good (not all doctors are good) and I see no problem in > telling (or reminding) people that. > > Andy the New Yawker Easy now, I'm not saying that all vets are good. Trust me i've seen some bad ones as well. I'm just stating my opinion that I felt the article was a bit one- sided and above all.....people should do their research. If a client does not feel comfortable with the service we have provided and wishes to go to another vet, personally I feel that it is probably a good decision. I switched my own personal physician because I felt he was not paying attention to my needs. Now from a veterinarian/business owner viewpoint that might be a little different. But personally as a tech, I try to make sure that the client knows EVERYTHING that I can tell them. With the exception of specific medical stuff, if requested I will gladly tell the client about the entire procedure from start to finish. Some clients ask too many questions, but on the flip side I can understand. If i was in their position I would ask a TON of questions. And I think people should find out as much as possible before making any decisions. But in that suggestion one must be careful. I once had a client bring several pages of research that she found on the internet about their pets condition. Too many cooks will spoil the soup and sometimes too many viewpoints can only confuse you more. I have no problem pointing out how certain vets are 'bad' but as a personal working in the veterinary field, yes I am slightly biased. But I also know what the vet goes through when they are reviewing the case when the client is not around. They want to help the client and their pet. But they have to find a way to present their findings, information, and course of treatment in a way that will be truthful, informative, but not so much as to overwhelm the client. There are idiots in every profession, I'm just stating my point of view from someone who sees how veterinarian sometimes struggle with clients in trying to help their furry loved ones. and it's not easy..... Still, there's always a tech at Persia's vet at night and on weekends, with > a vet on call, too. Her vet doesn't take on *new* patients after hours; you > are referred to the emergency clinic across the street for that (and yes, > they are both affiliated with the American Animal Hospital Association > mentioned in the other article). Still, there's someone there when they are > closed to keep an eye on the ones who are being treated and the animals > being boarded. I do think this is very important./// I agree there should always be someone there with "in-patients". My vet transfers his *in-patients* to the out of hours emergency clinic that covers for him after hours so that there is vet cover for them and like Persias vet, they don't take "new" patients after hours and then only animals from certain vet practices because they are emergency cover for them. When Robbie was boarded at the vet in the USA, they had 24/7 care with a doctor on call as it was a big veterinary hosiptal too. Helen M > Of course there are bad apples. They exist in every profession. But > articles like this want to paint everyone with the same blue brush and it's > very irritating. Yeah it really ticks me off > As for overnight stays at the vet, I DO think there should be someone there, > Kristi. I know not every veterinary office does this but I think they > should. There are too many things that can happen in the blink of an eye. Oh and I agree. However, not every veterinary practice is comfortable with the following: Hiring the necessary staff to be onsite, which could include technicians AND doctors. There's a HUGE element of trust and even with personnel onsite there's a ton of things that can go wrong. I do get clicnets that express their concern about leaving thier pet over night and most of the time it doesn't happen. Most of the time an animals that stays overnight for whatever reason is done because of some of the following reasons. If a surgery was done late in the day (there have been days where we've had like 6 surgeries and we don't get to certain ones until the end of the day. We will NOT release an animal until the doctor is satisfied that the animal is stable enough. Like take a dental for example that's done at 4 pm due to lots of other surgeries. If it's 6 pm and the animal is still glassy eyed and can't even walk a straight line, there's no way I'm sending him home. All it would take is for the dog/cat to take ONE fall and depending on the circumstances (stairs, jumping onto the cat tree) and something could really go wrong.) By keeping him in a smaller area (kennel or cage) we are restricting the animal's activity and therefore reducing the chances of the animal hurting themselves. For me I personally make sure that there's a lot of padding, the animal is comfortable and DEFINITELY wearing an e- collar if needed. If we feel that the animal is NOT stable and needs overnight care, we refer them to the local after hours emergency clinic. I have worked there from time to time and have had cases of animals that come in post surgery just for monitoring purposes. > On the flip side, however, IMO the mention of a dog chewing through spay > sutures and proceeding to mangle itself to the point of needing to be PTS is > probably a flat out lie. Unfortunately this has happened. I have not seen it, but a vet that I worked with has. And this was a dog that was SENT HOME with an e- collar and the owner took it off. > Still, there's always a tech at Persia's vet at night and on weekends, with > a vet on call, too. Her vet doesn't take on *new* patients after hours; you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > closed to keep an eye on the ones who are being treated and the animals > being boarded. I do think this is very important. And more power to you. Do what you are comfortable with and never feel you are backed into a corner. There always is an alternative. Mischief <krysfamulan@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1c21d267-1033-4536-9741- 16af6dd77991@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com: >> http://www.smartmoney.com/10things/index.cfm?story=september2005&nav=... > > WHAT??? > > This was an interesting article, but the 'things' are totally over the > top and i honestly don't know why any vet would even talk like that. I really did not see the article the way many of you have. The point was that you need to vet your vet NOT that all vets are bad. I saw no point in talking about vets that are not a problem as it would have taken space away from describing things that _can_ go wrong with a vet. None of those events are that hard to believe and there is nothing wrong in letting consumers know about them. Good vets should welcome this information being distributed. Andy > >http://www.smartmoney.com/10things/index.cfm?story=september2005&nav=... > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Kristi I can see where you're coming from on this, Kristi. This kind of expose-style writing irks me too. One of our vets here had his board license temporarily suspended and they splashed it on the news for days, and even started a website called "Disciplined Vets" and stuck his name on it. It was curious that they never did mention much that the reason he got disciplined by the board had *nothing* to do with his ability to treat animals. Sherry >> http://www.smartmoney.com/10things/index.cfm?story=september2005&nav=... ?> Of course there are a lot of quacks out there. But most vets are NOT > out to get your money. I agree ( in the UK) I have no experience elsewhere. > I have had some people balk > at leaving their animals overnight because there is no one there, but > I do make a point to tell the client that. My vet provides a service 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. I would never leave one of my animals as an inpatient if there was no-one there overnight. What if they got into a health crisis in the night? Are they found dead in the morning then? when people can be bothered to come in and find them. Ridiculous. I would dump my vet immediately if I had an cat/dog there who wasn't supervised overnight. Tweed On Apr 13, 1:31 pm, "Christina Websell" <spamf...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote: > My vet provides a service 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. My vet does things slightly differently- they have a vet hospital and at the end of the day any animals staying overnight are collected and taken to the hospital being returned to the practice the next morning. At the hospital, they have a vet on-call who sleeps there and vet nurses who stay with the patients to check, feed, comfort them etc all night. Apparently this is more efficient for them than having to have a vet at each practice and also the hospital has all the facilities for an emergency (it's also their emergency out of hours clinic) Having said that as I say I have heard some bad things about some of the other practices in the group so I might be a little uneasy about having to leave a cat overnight but (pauses to touch wood) it hasn't happened yet Lesley Slave of the Fabulous Furballs |
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