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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / March 2008Dad's Decline (OT and Long)
An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well upon his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU to a regular room and charming all the nursing staff, he stopped eating. So they did the nasal feeding tube thing. At that point he could still swallow. Now, he can't. We have a DNR (no "heroic measures") but they can't remove the feeding tube or stop IV fluids until we say so. Well, this morning a nurse called and asked if they could put in a PEG feeding tube instead (it goes directly to the stomach). I was torn about this and said I'd call them back. Before I could do so, a vascular surgeon who had seen him about 3 years ago for circulation problems in his feet called. He'd been called in for a consult because while they'd noticed his feet were always cold, it had gotten much worse. This doctor spoke very plainly to me. (Some might say he spoke too bluntly, but he was absolutely not without compassion, if that makes any sense.) I said hey, don't sugar coat it. Don't worry about my feelings because I know the score. Long story short; his foot was cold and blue and the *only* solution is amputation at the knee. And he said to me, "I certainly wouldn't put him through that. He probably wouldn't live through the operation. Even if he did, he probably wouldn't last more than a couple of days after that." There's no point in putting him through all of that. He also indicated, were it him, he wouldn't recommend opting for the PEG feeding tube, either. He said we'd just be prolonging the inevitable, with no quality of life. At this point Dad certainly isn't going to go tap dancing out the door. He spoke of us simply making sure he's comfortable. Authorizing only administration of pain medication and other comforts. It's time to let him go. But we haven't given the official orders yet. Mom said if the doctor said we can wait a day or two to remove "all the tubes", can we? Yes, he said we don't have to rush (but we can't dilly-dally, either). BTW, there are no inpatient hospices around here, although there are hospice nurses who will come into the hospital. There is the option of bringing him home, but that would require a 24/7 hospice nurse and AFAIK they don't offer that. We wouldn't know how to administer meds and keep him comfortable without a full time nurse. The hardest part was talking with my mom about all of this. She knows. Yes, she knows. But she's been married to him for 57 years. She gets teary-eyed, then stops. And she thinks there is something wrong with her because she's not weeping copiously. Heh, I'm not weeping copiously, either. We will, when it's time. He's not gone yet. And everyone grieves in their own way. Meanwhile, I went to the funeral home a friend of hers used and recommended and got some preliminary paperwork for us to fill out. We'll fill it out tomorrow, she and I, and I'll take it back over there and talk with the funeral director personally. They'll handle everything based on the information we provide when the time comes. One of the things on the information was if he's a Veteran they'd need a copy of his discharge papers. The DD-214. Dad being the meticulous record keeper had a file folder marked for that. What was in it? A copy of their marriage license! I did subsequently find it in an envelope that was tucked down between some folders. I also discovered something neither my mother nor I had ever known: in High School he was an ACTOR. A card-carrying member of The National Thespian Dramatic Honor Society (with a certificate for "meritorious particpation in high school dramatics). Go figure :) Jill (((Jill))) I'm so sorry. We were lucky, but this could have been us last year. Hang in there, going gently is the kindest way, isn't it? Please give my sympathy to your mom as well as you. Just brace yourself in for the attack of the idiot brothers and be kind to yourself. Death brings out the strangest things in people. I hope that you find your peace and that you and your mom know that you are doing the best for all of you. Pam S. who wishes she could say it all better > An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well upon > his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU to a [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > Jill Jill, I'm so sorry to hear about your Dad and all you and your family has to do. I lost my Dad in late Jan of 2007, and I know the heartbreak you're going thru. I just don't don't know what to say except you're in my prayers and so is your Mom. 57 years is a long time to be married:) Send me an e-mail if you'd like to talk. Love and prayers HUGS to you and your Mom and please give your Dad one from me too Kyla "jmcquown" > An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well upon > his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU to a [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > Jill All I can say is Bright Blessings to you. DP has cared for patients in that condition and he is in agreement with the doctor who spoke to you, there is a point when the feeding tube is just prolonging a person's suffering rather than giving them more "good days". Many purrs. --Fil > > I also discovered something neither my mother nor I had ever known: in > > High School he was an ACTOR. A card-carrying member of The National > > Thespian Dramatic Honor Society (with a certificate for "meritorious > > particpation in high school dramatics). Go figure :) Jill, you have my heart. My husband had vascular problems near the end of his life and they wanted to take both legs. He was a paraplegic and diabetic. When they talked to me about it, I wanted it straight, no hand holding. I made decisions as you and your Mom are doing. The tears will come, I had already cried myself dry and to this day have not cried like my family thinks I should. No one knows but you what you have and will go through. If I could give you and your mother strength, I would. Just always try and remember what his wishes would be. Prayers to you both. Gramby > An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well upon > his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU to a [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > Jill > An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well > upon his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > Jill Jill, We only went through this a little over a year ago with my father who was a similar age. I can only tell you two things and I am sorry if I sound a bit like that doctor you mentioned. When my mother died we went against her wishes to some degree and allowed extra rounds of drugs and treatments. We did not want to let go of our mom. Understandable. I never talked to my siblings about it and it was 20 years ago but I have always regretted what we did. We caused my mother extra discomfort (in my opinion). When my dad was declining slowly then rapidly we all went to see him (in another state) and had good visits but as his decline sped up we kept to his desires and in the end let him go in relative comfort and for my part I feel much better about how we let my father depart. My father was my biggest hero and I would have done anything to keep him. Anything except prolong is discomfort. Take from that anything or nothing since I am not sure what I would take from it. Be well, Andy > An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well > upon his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU to [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > Jill Purrs and prayers continuing for you and your family. Sam, supervised by Mistletoe > An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well upon > his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU to a [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > Jill (((((((((Jill, Mom and Dad)))))))))) Joy > An update, which may be premature. purrs coming your way. my mum also had to make similar decisions after my dad had brain surgery to remove a tumour and wasn't recovering. many, many purrs for the difficult time ahead.  SignatureMarina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. >An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well upon >his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU to a >regular room and charming all the nursing staff, he stopped eating. All I can really say is that I am sending purrs for you and your mum. I was "lucky" in that both my parents died after short illnesses and we never had to make such difficult decisions- I think that comes with Dave's parents Lesley Slave of the Fabulous Furballs > An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well upon > his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU to a [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > Jill (((((((((((((((((((((((Jill)))))))))))))))))))))))))))) SignatureTheresa, Stinky and Dante drtmuirATearthlink.net > An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well upon > his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU to a [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > Thespian Dramatic Honor Society (with a certificate for "meritorious > particpation in high school dramatics). Go figure :) Jill, I have read all of your posts about your dad, but have been unable to reply for, I guess, some selfish reasons. Since Mom died last January '07, I have a very hard time reading/talking about parents being sick and/or terminally ill. So even tho' I can't say much here, please know that I have had you, your Mom and especially your dear father in my prayers. I also am very proud of you b/c you sound so good when you talk about "Dad". If I can do *anything* for you... please, please let me know. {{{{{Jill's Daddy}}}}} Signature·.·´¨ ¨)) -:¦:- ¸.·´ .·´¨¨)) Laurie ((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- ((¸¸ ·.· *~*LiveLoveLaugh*~* All that I am or hope to be, I owe to my angel mother. ~Abraham Lincoln > Jill > An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well > upon his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU > to a regular room and charming all the nursing staff, he stopped > eating. So they did the nasal feeding tube thing. At that point he > could still swallow. Now, he can't. snip > Jill This brings me back 20 years when my dad had a massive stroke, paralyzing him on the right side and he was unable to swallow. They put in the stomach feeding tube, but it only prolonged the inevitable for 2 weeks. My mother and I tried to let him go (we knew his wishes), but the doctor refused saying they weren't there to kill people. My mother didn't cry much at the time, but afterwards, she cried every day for years. I just hope you don't have problems with the rest of the family, who often criticize the actions taken by those who have to make the decisions, while they are miles away and don't deal with it. Take care, and as my dad used to say, chin up. Bobble >> An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well >> upon his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Take care, and as my dad used to say, chin up. > Bobble The rest of the family may not need to know. When my husband was dying, I knew his wishes, and talked things over with my children. We were all in agreement. Near the end, the doctor said he could continue a particular medication that would prolong things, but wouldn't really do any good. He asked if I wanted him to stop it, and continue the morphine, which kept him comfortable. After discussing it with the kids, I told him yes. A couple of hours later, my mother-in-law was there when a nurse came in and said she was going to put in a shunt so they wouldn't have to keep sticking needles in him. Then she turned to me and asked, "Did the doctor tell you what he's going to do?" I said yes. When he went out, my mother-in-law asked sharply, "What is the doctor going to do?" I just said, "He's having the nurse put in a shunt so they can give his medications more easily." She accepted that. I don't think she would have agreed with our decision, so I didn't tell her about it. Joy >>> An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well >>> upon his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Joy I've kept my middle brother in the loop but he's sort of questioning what I've told him. He didn't quite understand (for example) why the vascular surgeon said Dad probably wouldn't survive having half his leg amputated and would not recommend we even try that. He's not actually *challenging* the decisions I'm making (and yes, I'm talking all of this over with Mom first) but he is asking me lots of questions that almost sound like he disagrees. He saw him last August; at that point he took Dad out to lunch, they rode around in the golf cart a couple of times. Things have changed rapidly and he really doesn't want to accept it. Then again, hopefully without sounding bitter (I'm really not), if he wants things handled differently he should bring his a** down here and deal with it himself. Sadly, my oldest brother is more interested in what condition the house is in, for selling it (or turning it into a time-share which is strictly against the covenants of the Island, anyway.) Besides, it's Mom's house and she's still very much alive. But then, he called the day Mom was admitted to the hospital (1/29) asking for a large sum of money. When I told him she was at the doctor and I was 100% sure he'd put her in the hospital he said, "Just leave her a note and tell her I need $." Nice. (Note: he has since quit his job. He wasn't making big bucks but it was better than nothing.) Of course, middle-bro assumed Mom would move in with him when Dad dies and had what would have been an office/study in his house built a little larger so it could be her bedroom. A nice gesture, and maybe one day she'll do that. It still irks me *her* bathroom is actually the guest bathroom off the foyer. I'm pretty sure she doesn't want his guests (he likes to entertain) traipsing in and out of her bathroom! Dad's older sister, his only living sibling, knows he's quite near the end. She doesn't need every little detail. But she wouldn't question us even if she did. Jill >>>> An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well >>>> upon his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > > Jill I feel for you, Jill. My mother went through much the same thing with her father - he had poor circulation in his legs, one was amputated just above the knee. He only lived another 3-6 months after that. While my grandfather was lucid, he didn't speak a word of English (he was from Germany), and obstinate at that (I used to call him Grumpa instead of Grandpa). He refused a majority of his food, and didn't want to live. Fortunately, he had a Dr that was compassionate and understood that my grandfather (he was 91 when he passed) did not have a good quality of life left, and refused to tube feed him for the sake of "keeping him alive". Instead, they kept him as comfortable as they could, until he passed in his sleep one night. {{{{{Jill & Family}}}}} Signature-- The ONE and ONLY lefthanded-pathetic-paranoid-psychotic-sarcastic-wiseass-ditzy former-blonde in Bloomington! (And proud of it, too)© email me at nalee1964 (at) insightbb (dot) com http://community.webshots.com/user/mgcmdjeep > I've kept my middle brother in the loop but he's sort of questioning what > I've told him. He didn't quite understand (for example) why the vascular [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > over with Mom first) but he is asking me lots of questions that almost > sound like he disagrees. Macho macho man.... > He saw him last August; at that point he took Dad out to lunch, they rode > around in the golf cart a couple of times. Things have changed rapidly [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > (Note: he has since quit his job. He wasn't making big bucks but it was > better than nothing.) Dead beat. Everyfamily has one or two or three > Of course, middle-bro assumed Mom would move in with him when Dad dies > and had what would have been an office/study in his house built a little > larger so it could be her bedroom. A nice gesture, and maybe one day > she'll do that. It still irks me *her* bathroom is actually the guest > bathroom off the foyer. I'm pretty sure she doesn't want his guests (he > likes to entertain) traipsing in and out of her bathroom! I wouldn't want to meet him traisping in and out my bathroom. I certainly wouldn't want to meet his friends. Isn't this the gomer who wants you to sell everything, bring mom to him and then suck her dry? > Dad's older sister, his only living sibling, knows he's quite near the > end. She doesn't need every little detail. But she wouldn't question us > even if she did. > > Jill Ok, I'm in my gloom and doom mode this morning. First of all, please prepare yourself for all sorts of bad from both brothers. I expect them to come waltzing in at the funeral and try to throw their weight around. They expected you to take care of your Mom and Dad because you're the girl. Now they'll want to take over, sell everything they can through conventional means, and then put the rest on e-bay. Slap them with a wet dead fish if you have to, but keep them away from Mom. No matter how right the decision you've made together is, she is going to feel guilty. These gomers are just cunning enough to trade on that and try to use it. You seem to have inherited the practical genes in your family. I don't know how your Dad's sister is doing, but this is going to affect her. If she is capable of handling it, bring her in, if you have to, to help keep the brothers from treating you and your Mom like cr*p. Aunt saying "Shut up, they did the right thing" can cure a world of stupidity. The hardest part for you is to know that you brought in that wonderful practical and caring mind of yours and made the decisions that are right for Dad. Prolonging a life that is never going to be good any more is stupid and cruel. You are doing what is right and don't let those two loser brothers of you try to guilt you. Keep your eyes on your own feelings as well as Moms. Oh, and Jill, please don't feel guilty if you feel relief as well as grief. That is so normal. The relief isn't just for you and Mom, but also for your dad. It is normal and should even be welcomed because it means that you did what was right when it was right. I've always been a bull in a china shop (no refinement here) when it comes to expressing support an love for others. Rob says it is part of my charm. Sweetie, I mean well, even if I don't say it well. Hang in there and know that we all love you. Pam S still in gloom and doom mode When my Bob was in the hospital for the last time. My stepdaughter who had not done one thing to help came and, started telling Me what to do. I got fed up and told her "if you don't settle down, tomorrows headlines will read. "Old Blind lady shoves feet in step daughters mouth and throws her out a plate glass window." She must have believed me she went home but, even though she had seen him once in two years, came back intending to stay a week when he died. Well Lee and her DH came and helped me deal with her. If there is a will go ahead and contact the lawyer, tell him what will probably happen, and get his advice. You and your Mom are in charge and doing what is right. Cry, scream and yell but don't let them bully you. Prayers for you both. >> I've kept my middle brother in the loop but he's sort of questioning what >> I've told him. He didn't quite understand (for example) why the vascular [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > > Pam S still in gloom and doom mode >>>> An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so >>>> well upon his last admission to the hospital... after being moved [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > > Jill With all you have to deal with and you have these two adding to your grief. That really sucks. Andy > > An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well > > upon his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Take care, and as my dad used to say, chin up. > Bobble No comment re the "family" but since you mention what that doc said: when you work in hospitals, no matter what you do (unless you're an admission clerk or something isolated relatively, you hear over time about certain docs practicing in your hospital being "no DNR" kinda guys. I watched some of these types fight against the odds right to the end. I was not a nurse but believe me the nurses know which docs these are and nurses talk. OTOH, it is a matter IMHO between patient's family's wishes, which it sounds like Jill's doc is not a "no DNR" dude. I have even seen some docs in ERs ignore the *written orders for life support* in patient's records, mandated by *patient* (!!!) and fight to keep brain-dead folks alive. I dunno if it was the docs' religion or what; luckily all I ever had to do for the most part was take a fast film and get outa that scene, thank the Lord. This all boils down to "know your doctor" very well...... > An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well > upon his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU > to a regular room and charming all the nursing staff, he stopped > eating. So they did the nasal feeding tube thing. At that point he > could still swallow. Now, he can't. <snip> {{{{{{{{{{{{ Jill }}}}}}}}}}}} It pretty the clear the end is close, purrs for you and your mother, purrs for your father to pass peacefully. SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk > An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well upon > his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU to a [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > Jill Jill I wish I had words of encouragement and something that would make it better but all I can do is say hold tight you are doing the right thing. It is hard to watch them go down hill all we can do is standby by and do what we can The part I appreciate most about your post is that you are focused on his life, not what will happen. I went to a grief group last year and only stayed two days. There were people there who were in horrible [pain after nine years. I understand their pain but I choose to focus on peoples lives and what they stood for. To think that nine years from now all I could think of was the day Bob died is painful to me. What he did for others and such is far more important than my pain the day he left this earth. Sorry for going on so but, I am proud of the way you are doing what has to be done and the pride I hear when you talk about your Dad. >> An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well upon >> his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU to a [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > It is hard to watch them go down hill all we can do is standby by and do > what we can "Granby" ... > The part I appreciate most about your post is that you are focused on his > life, not what will happen. That is so true Granby. I lost my Dad in late Jan 2007 after he was in a nursing home for 2 years. He had bad dementia, but one day, my middle sister put him on the phone, and I told him I loved him, and alotho, becaise of his oxygen mask, I couldn't hear him say I love you Gail (my real name). Then about 3 hours later, I got 'the call' that he was gone. Then I lost my Mom late last August, and call me crazy, but I still 'talk' to them both and carry family pix in a small album in my purse. Family is everything. > I went to a grief group last year and only stayed two days. There were > people there who were in horrible [pain after nine years. I understand [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > but, I am proud of the way you are doing what has to be done and the > pride I hear when you talk about your Dad. Granby, you have such a sweet, kind spirit, and such a bright outlook, and you are loved by all of us here. I am so sorry for the loss of your husband. He sounds like he was a wonderful man. MY DH is a wonderful man and I'd be so lost without him. We've been married over 31 happy years. He's fixing bagels and lox for our lunch, even tho I'm not hungry. I'm SO glad Flippy told me about this group. HUGs and Purrs Kyla > "Matthew" >> >> "jmcquown" [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] >> It is hard to watch them go down hill all we can do is standby by and do >> what we can well, I am not sweet and kind all the time. I feel it is a matter of choice sometimes. I could cry because I can't see well and, at my age, that is definitely a limiting factor in relationships. However, I don't dwell on that, I look to the miracle that someone may overlook that. We all have things that drag us down, that is why the stories and people here usually uplift me. Feeling bad for their losses, cats I mean, is about the all down I can take. Some crosses are heavier than others to bear. I put mine on wheels, I know they have to be there but I tray and make them as easy as possible to bear. > "Granby" ... >> The part I appreciate most about your post is that you are focused on his [quoted text clipped - 101 lines] >>> thing. It is hard to watch them go down hill all we can do is standby by >>> and do what we can Hugs and purrs on the way for you and your mother, your father and even your brothers although at the moment they don't seem to know they need purrs. I think of you often and wonder how things are going. If you get a minute drop me an email at gadragonfly *at* comcast *dot* net. I'll give you the stories of the three weeks we spent in ICU when my mother was dying and the compassion of our doctors. When everyone is in agreement that the time has come there are ways of dealing with that as well. Julie > An update, which may be premature. After rallying and doing so well > upon his last admission to the hospital... after being moved from ICU to [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > Jill Lots and lots of purrs for your family, Jill, Polonca and Soncek
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