You don't *need* to do any such thing.

That is a sadistically brutal thing to do to a cat used
to being outdoors.  What the hell is wrong with patience?

==============  j-c  ======  @  ======  purr . demon . co . uk  ==============
Jack Campin:  11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
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Thank you so much for your suggestions.  More so thank you very much for
caring about Four and what will become of his life and eviroment after he is
healed, which is anticipated to be 2 weeks (Feb 3rd). I've given much
thought to what you set forth. I've talked with Helen Miles, checked out
this information on the internet and in printed reference material; among
them "Litter Solutions" written by Dr. Bruce Elsey, DVM whose company makes
Cat Attract.  All were proponets of Crate/Litter Box as a last resort.

Crating Four with a litter box is the only method left that will (hopefully)
get him to develop the behavior that will make it possible for him to live
in the house.   He can not live in the house under the present
circumstances.

We have a crate that size in the house already so can get on with the
program this week-end. The biggest problem is opening the door to put his
food in as often durning the day as I do to feed him.  He may try to get
out. This crate has only one opening.  But we will look on this as a
challenge not a problem!

On Jan 18, 4:57 pm, "Charleen Welton" <ilikec...@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

I've been lurking a long time and have been following the story of
Four. I would ask you to please not do this and do not allow him to
free roam. Not only will he be at risk of god knows what, but you are
putting other cats that come into contact with him at risk for getting
FIV. Now, I have no issue with allowing FIV cats in a home with
healthy cats provided the infected cat is good around other cats, but
outside you have absolutely no control over his situation. I'm not so
worried about him as I am with another, unneutered male instigating
something and Four infecting a cat in the process of defending himself
(which he shouldn't have to do.) Since FIV can be transmitted through
sexual contact this could result in a lot of illness in a lot of cats
if he infects an intact outside cat that breeds (and they all do).  If
you take the time to do a very slow introduction (which, I believe
it's MaryL could help you with) there should be no problem integrating
Four into your home. As far as his litterbox issue goes, what you need
to do is to confine him in a 2x3 dog cage with a litterbox so he has
no other option but to use it. Walmart has a nice folding one with two
doors on it for about $60. You can start by setting up the cage and
then feeding him in it with the door open then closing him in at the
evening meal. And you could try starting out with keeping him in just
at night and see how that goes. It doesn't need to be like kitty
incarceration forever, just a tool until he is using the box
consistently. This cat really needs to be an inside kitty and never
have to worry again. Please don't leave him out.

Aggie is 13 years old closing in on 14.  She has been on Kitty Prozac 3
times in her life and each time it has been for a very long time, once for a
year.  She has all kinds of "issues."  She is a former feral.  Our dear
sweet former vet told me after working with her for a long time that a
veterinarian had done all a vet could do, she was physcially and
neurologically well.  Aggie needs a Cat Behaviorist for help with her
issues. We are unable to pay what a CB charges although I spoke with some
wonderful ones who were very willing to help her.

We'll see how the litter box training for Four works out, if it is
successful we'll go onto letting them see each other through the glass doors
and then sniff noses through the slightly cracked open door.  At that time
we will know if Aggie will be able to handle the situation, or need help to
handle the situation or not be able to handle it at all.

It seems that way, Lee.  It was through the glass doors that we introduced
the Orange Tabbies to Victor Velcro and it worked out well.  The only reason
that Four is not allowed in the office with me now is that there is a long
counter that runs along one wall and he could easily get behind it.  If he
chose not to come out I would have no way of getting him out.  And if he
would not come out we would have the peeing and pooping issue in the house.
I hope that the crating/litter box project works and that Four can come in,
it would be fun to have here in the office.  Aggie doesn't come in here at
all, Victor only at night to walk on the keyboard and then lie down on it!

I hope it will.  Would like to have a happy cat family of three. Haven't
heard Four purr yet. Hope he knows how to.

Thanks Adrian, it is so great that the wound is healing so rapidly. I'm sure
it will be completly closed in two weeks.  I'm sure also that Four will not
have his attention diverted to so many different things that with the wound
no longer being an issue and the litter box problem solved (fingers crossed)
that he can deal with the intergration. A few times in the past I have
mentioned that he has gotten into the house and has been very comfortable
here. One time  he was curled up fast asleep under the dinning room table,
another he was napping on a living room chair. And he did not run away
afraid of having been caught. Another reason I believe that at one time he
was a house kitty.  Hopefully within the month he will be.

On Jan 18, 4:57 pm, "Charleen Welton" <ilikec...@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

Hi Charleen,
It's great to know about the fantastic progress Four has made.

And it is better every day! I would say that the width of the neck injury is
closed with new skin and fur half way!!

I understand the reference to eating like a horse.
You might be interested to know that when our daughters were growing
up, we had a place with a little pasture and a couple of horses.  We
also had a couple of cats, one of which was on a special diet.  It
actually cost us more to feed the cats than the horses.

I feel as though I could put this guy up against a horse or two.

I know you are anxious to get Four integrated with your other cats,
but personally, I think I would wait a little longer.  I say this
because Four probably needs a little more time to settle in.  When a
cat is neutered, it takes some time for the hormones to settle down
and he may have some territory issues now that he won't have in a
couple of weeks or so.

 Also, you apparently still have the litter box problem, and exposing
him to other cats at this time might make it even more difficult for
him to make the transition to using the box.

Taking care of the litter box problem is number one and will not be part of
any other program. Introduction to the other cats can't/won't happen until
Four has successfully graduated from Litter Box 101.

I agree with another poster that the FIV+ diagnosis complicates
things.  Four should not be outside unless he can be isolated from and
unable to fight with any strays who might challenge or attack him.
When you get the litter box problem sorted out, you probably could
move him into the room with the sliding door and start the physical
introduction then.

What you can do now is give him a towel to sleep on, and do the same
for your other cats.  Then, switch towels and they will start getting
used to the others' scent. You will be trying to establish a common
scent that combines all the scents.  However, keep in mind that they
won't associate the scent with how the other cats look.  So, even if
they are quite comfortable with the scent, they still will see each
other as strangers through the glass.

I think, if I have the sequence right, that I would do the towel thing after
successful litter box training and before the looks and noses at the glass
door.  Is that correct?

Has he made any progress at all on using the box? It sounds like he
might want a covered box.  I don't recall if you mentioned using any
enzyme products to remove odor from his mistakes.  Our Cinder has a
sensitive stomach, and when she vomits, we use Nature's Miracle Just
for Cats.  One time she peed on the carpet, and we also used it for
that.  It has worked for us.  No spots or odor on the carpet. The
bottle says it has a money back guarantee.

That back fired for us in that drove Four from using the front room of the
KK to the back room to pee which is unaccessible for me during the week.  He
does his other in the front room which I can scoop up.

If he continues to have problems after he has had time to heal and
regain his health and if you have tried everything else, I think you
could, as another poster suggested, enclose him in a good size,
covered crate at night with a litter box.  I don't like the idea of
doing this, partly because I think he should always have access to
water without the worry that he will spill it and be sitting in a
puddle. But, I can say that we have traveled by car with our cats in
crates (letting them out at the motels), and it did not hurt them to
be confined for their own safety for several hours at a time ( eight
or more hours) over a period of several days.  When we had to evacuate
for a hurricane, Rosie, who was still feral, spent 24 hours in a
crate.  I have described how we got her into it. We knew that if we
let her out, we would not be able to catch her again. However, I think
this would not be good for a way of life.

Anyway, I hope all that is going well continues to go well and that
the rest falls into place.

I got your snail mail note.  I would have responded via email, but
lost your address.  That was sweet of you to write.  I never had any
doubts about it.

I very much appreciate what you did. He ate high off the hog!  Probably
wouldn't have gotten the mackerel and sardine yummies if it wasn't for you.
But, all kidding aside, protein contributes to wound healing and thats what
you did you contributed that which made it possible for faster healing.
Thank you so very much!

Annie