Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / November 2004
Family Knows Best - OT RANT
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jmcquown - 20 Nov 2004 12:34 GMT When I first lost my job Dad started in with "you'll have to move in with your brother" crap. No, I'm not moving in with my brother. Now he's got Mom doing it. I got so frustrated with her yesterday afternoon I finally said I can't talk about this, gotta go. I'm sure she was angry; I was agitated.
Apparently they've been discussing this with my brother. It's nice to know the family is holding conferences to decide what is best for me, a middle-aged woman.
My brother's friend works in Atlanta but his dad lives here, so when he comes into town every few weeks he stays in my brother's guest bedroom. Mom informed me (1) I'll need to move in with Scott and (2) Scott is willing to "kick [his friend] to the curb" (she actually USED that phrase!) so I can have his room. Have his ROOM. (NOTE: my brother hasn't mentioned this to me at all.)
First of all, HIS room is filled with MY furniture. Digression: I'm pretty sure Judge Judy would say I abandoned that furniture and throw me out of court if I tried to claim it. Back when my brother and I rented a house together in the 1980's (mutual decision) he didn't have any bedroom furniture. I'd bought my waterbed and a computer desk, so I loaned him the bed, the large dresser with mirror, night stand and lamp. These came to me from my grandmother. I kept the smaller tall chest of drawers and the vanity from the set.
When he got married and built his house, I let him take it with him. He then bought their own bedroom furniture and used mine to furnish the guest room. That was okay; I didn't have a place to put it.
When he and I were roommates before it was fine for a number of years. We were both in our 20's. It was a shared space. My bedroom was literally a 'suite' with room enough for my king-size bed, night stands, chest of drawers, vanity, bookcase, TV, stereo, computer desk with a private bath and walk-in closet. My brother had 2 bedrooms (one was his 'office') and a bathroom which closed off from the kitchen at the other end of the house with a closing door. Complete privacy for both of us; common living area (great room, dining, kitchen). We each had our own phone lines.
If I move in with my brother (which I am NOT) going to do, I'd have one room in HIS house. And he'd never let me forget it. It's just big enough for the furniture that is in it now; you see my point? No, my bed wouldn't fit in it. No, no place to put my PC. I *might* be able to put a TV stand in one corner.
Oh, but you could use his PC. Really? When? When he decides I can? And is he gonna get upset when I install things on HIS machine? You're damn right he would.
Now, what about all my furniture? That's 4 rooms plus my kitchen stuff (not to mention my clothes which are spread between 2 walk-in closets). Oh, we'd put that in storage. Really? It would have to be climate-controlled so my wood furniture doesn't warp. I'm pretty sure you can guess in what areas of town these storage places are located. Can you say "unsavory"? And any idea what that would cost? Might as well pay my rent.
Then there was the matter of him not being willing to take care of Persia for even 4 days. I'm not going *anywhere* without Persia. Mom said oh, I'm sure he wouldn't mind. Maybe not, but let's see... in what part of his always-perfect living room would I put the cat tree? How about her litter box? Think he'd like it in the pristine guest bathroom (which, BTW, isn't big enough for it anyway)?
I don't want to feel like a guest in my own home. Of course it wouldn't be *my own home*. My brother means well, I'm sure. They all mean well. But he'd never let me forget it's *his* house.
Then, of course, my brother loves to entertain. That's nice for him. There were times when we were roommates when I felt like joining in; we did have some good times! No denying it. But other times I just didn't want to deal with it. I'd shut myself in my 'suite' and read or watch TV. If I wanted to leave, I had sliding doors onto the atrium at the center of the house which had an exit gate to the driveway; I'd just go out that way so as not to bother anyone.
Persia would freak with a bunch of people in the house. I know it would stress her. I know it would stress ME.
I got so upset I just got off the phone. This is just another attempt to CONTROL me. Because of course, if I'm living there rent free I have to do whatever they think I should, right?
My long-lost love, John, thinks I tell them too much. Hey, I didn't tell them anything other than I'd lost my job before Dad started in with this move-in-with-your-brother stuff. That was back in May. Yes, I made a mistake and told them I was pretty sure I had the jewelry store job. I truly thought I had it and wanted them to know I was doing fine. I was trying to reassure them (big mistake).
When Mom called yesterday I explained why it fell through and then she started in. She also said they think I can do "better" than working in a store. Oh, well, let's think about this, shall we? Working for a big corporation for 11 years certainly did me a lot of good. Major stress, pager duty. And did they blink before they said "see ya"?
I'd really rather be encouraged than discouraged. That's not happening here. They are making me feel like that character from the 'Lil Abner cartoon strip who walks around with a storm-cloud over his head all the time. It doesn't help with my depression, thank you very much.
Sorry, I'm not moving in with my brother. I'll find something. (If I were younger I might even consider exotic dancing, that would thrill them! Just kidding.)
Before anyone suggests I move to another state to be with John: Yes, it's been wonderful reuniting with him after 23 years. But we've really spent comparatively little time together and aren't looking to jump into anything. He is being very supportive, emotionally as well as financially. We are simply not at that next-step point yet. (I can just picture packing up and moving and then things not working out and hearing the "I told you so's".) Then where would I be?
SEE, they've even got *me* thinking negative thoughts. This is not good. I'm pretty sure they don't even realize they are doing it.
Okay, I think that's the end of my rant. (big sigh)
Jill
Magic Mood Jeep? - 20 Nov 2004 13:25 GMT Purrs that your parents shut their yap-holes & let *you* live *your* live. (Fortunately, my mother is one who doesn't interfere... much.)
Also purrs that the black cloud that seems to be following you has a silver (or even better, a gold or platinum, maybe even titanium) lining. Maybe you can auction it off on EBay & use the proceeds to say "told you so" to your family :)
Oh, and you are *not* middle aged, middle aged is 50-60's nowadays. I happen to know that you are only a couple years older than me, and I *refuse* to claim "middle age" (isn't the middle age a time period in Europe that was ravaged by the plage???? Who wants to be associated with that????).
Just remember that we are all here to talk to, and a *lot* of us are good listeners, even if we don't have any good advice for the situation.
Nancy Lee --? The ONE and ONLY lefthanded-pathetic-paranoid-psychotic-sarcastic-wiseass-ditzy former-blonde in Bloomington! (And proud of it, too)? email me at nalee1964 (at) insightbb (dot) com http://community.webshots.com/user/mgcmdjeep
> When I first lost my job Dad started in with "you'll have to move in > with your brother" crap. No, I'm not moving in with my brother. Now [quoted text clipped - 117 lines] > > Jill jmcquown - 20 Nov 2004 13:42 GMT > Purrs that your parents shut their yap-holes & let *you* live *your* > live. (Fortunately, my mother is one who doesn't interfere... much.) Dad is a retired Colonel, USMC. Think he can avoid "commanding" his troops? Doubtful. Mom is just worried and starting to parrot him; he's getting her worked up. He has barely spoken to me since I started working those art shows with John. Totally disapproving. Oh well.
> Oh, and you are *not* middle aged, middle aged is 50-60's nowadays. I > happen to know that you are only a couple years older than me, and I > *refuse* to claim "middle age" (isn't the middle age a time period in > Europe that was ravaged by the plage???? Who wants to be associated > with that????). LOL It was also the time of feudal lords, ladies of the court, courtesans, serfs, peasants, et al. Some gorgeous clothing if you were rich, though! Of course I don't have anything from that era (who does?) but I hope I don't have to sell off any of my vintage dresses. I do have some jewelry I'm vaguely considering posting on eBay.
> Just remember that we are all here to talk to, and a *lot* of us are > good listeners, even if we don't have any good advice for the > situation. > > Nancy Lee Thank you! This is a wonderful group. Persia says to Weeble: Mommy brought in the LOGS but she didn't light da FIRE. Mommy said the LOGS were wet; I remember wet from da outside and I don't like it. She said da logs have to dry out before Mommy can make da nice bright warm place for me to nap next to. I'll just play with my toys and purr until Mommy makes da FIRE.
Jill (with an aside by Persia)
>> When I first lost my job Dad started in with "you'll have to move in >> with your brother" crap. No, I'm not moving in with my brother. Now [quoted text clipped - 118 lines] >> >> Jill SUQKRT - 22 Nov 2004 19:00 GMT >Dad is a retired Colonel, USMC. Think he can avoid "commanding" his troops? >Doubtful. Mom is just worried and starting to parrot him; he's getting >her >worked up. He has barely spoken to me since I started working those art >shows with John. Totally disapproving. Oh well. Hugs {{{{{{{Jill}}}} I sort of understand, my Dad's a retired State Trooper. Suz Macmoosette =^..^= =^..^= =^..^= =^..^= =^..^= =^..^=
"People that hate cats will come back as mice in their next life." --Faith Resnick
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Howard Berkowitz - 20 Nov 2004 17:56 GMT > isn't the middle age a time period in Europe > that was ravaged by the plage???? Who wants to be associated with that???? I'm not sure about that, but when I was designing networks for the Federal Y2K Information Center, we all said the Dark Ages were caused by the Y1K problems.
Victor Martinez - 20 Nov 2004 14:01 GMT Lots of purrs going your way Jill. It's not always easy dealing with family, but I guess it's better than not having a family to deal with. :)
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Cheryl Perkins - 20 Nov 2004 14:19 GMT Lots of purrs. It's nice that they don't want you to be out on the street, but I know how infuriating it is when well-meaning relatives start coming up with bright suggestions for your future. Some of my mother's ideas for employment for me in the long-distance past, for example, well, the less said the better!
Things do eventually improve - both with family & with job and money situations, so hang in there!
 Signature Cheryl
Karen Chuplis - 20 Nov 2004 21:12 GMT > Lots of purrs. It's nice that they don't want you to be out on the street, > but I know how infuriating it is when well-meaning relatives start coming [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Things do eventually improve - both with family & with job and money > situations, so hang in there! I understand too. Every once in a while my mother gets on a tear about how I can meet more people (read "men") by hanging out at the coffee shop or going to church. Yeah, in my copious spare time. She means well though.
Takayuki - 21 Nov 2004 04:22 GMT >I understand too. Every once in a while my mother gets on a tear about how I >can meet more people (read "men") by hanging out at the coffee shop or going >to church. Yeah, in my copious spare time. She means well though. At least she didn't say bars and truck stops. :)
Sherry - 21 Nov 2004 04:31 GMT >>I understand too. Every once in a while my mother gets on a tear about how I >>can meet more people (read "men") by hanging out at the coffee shop or going >>to church. Yeah, in my copious spare time. She means well though. Oh, girlfriend. Forget church or the coffee shop. Go for broke. Marry a vet.
Sherry
Kreisleriana - 21 Nov 2004 15:52 GMT >>I understand too. Every once in a while my mother gets on a tear about how I >>can meet more people (read "men") by hanging out at the coffee shop or going >>to church. Yeah, in my copious spare time. She means well though. > >At least she didn't say bars and truck stops. :) At least she didn't squeeze you into a pair of hot pants and drop you off down by the docks. ;P
Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com
Mischief - 22 Nov 2004 00:19 GMT At least she didn't say "You need to lose weight. You should be a size 4!"
Oh, I still am steamed at my mother for saying that. She went back to school when I was in college and became a personal trainer. So now almost every conversation is about my workout schedule and nutrition.
For the last several years I've bene at odds with both my parents about my weight. I'm Five foot nothing and was about 150 pounds. I thought I was okay, and my friends didn't think I needed to obsess over it. I was reasonably happy, I had a good job, was working on my RVT license, so fitness wasn't very high on the totem pole.
After a lot of attempts to lose weight, talk to my parents, crying, and thoughts about suicide, I finally relented and let my parents pay for a gym membership and a personal trainer. Then I got really interested in springboard diving, and I improved my nutrition and increased my exercise level. (Also my diving coach is cute, but that's another story)
Now I'm happy to say I've lost about 15 pounds and I feel awesome. My parents are happy, and I'm happy too......
I'm happy that they're finally shutting up a little bit.. *sheesh* Now, all I have to do is get my RVT license, get a well paying job, and marry some Asian man in the medical or science field, and then they'll really shut up.
*deep breath*
I could go on and on and on about my parents. I'm Chinese, the oldest girl, and the middle child, so that right there is a recipe for disaster and a desperate need for therapy.
"Mom, do you want me to marry someone Chinese?" "No, it's not required, but it's highly reccommended."
"I'm having trouble at work, they say I'm not fititng in." "Well you do have a history of that."
This is also why I moved down from Northern California to Los Angeles to get the hell away from home.
This is also why I don't plan on having children any time soon. I know payback is a bitch and the last thing I want to do is put my kid through what I went through.
Okay, enough ranting. I totally sympathize and I'm kinda glad that I'm not the only person that has mother problems.
Time to cuddle a cat,
Kristi
Karen Chuplis - 22 Nov 2004 00:30 GMT > At least she didn't say "You need to lose weight. You should be a > size 4!" [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > Kristi Well, one thing to remember about this type of parent talk; they are just desparately hoping to make you live longer and avoid rude comments like are discussed here because they want their kids to be happy. What they don't figure out is that very often harping on a subject somehow snaps on the "adolescent" gene like mad and makes us want to do the opposite. Does me anyhow. And actually makes me mad at myself because I know that it is unreasonable in me and not fair to my mom.
Victor Martinez - 22 Nov 2004 00:36 GMT > At least she didn't say "You need to lose weight. You should be a > size 4!" My mom always nags me about loosing weight. It used to be the smoking, which when I finally quit, actually caused me to gain weight (that's my story and I'm sticking to it!)... :) I would love to have the same body I did when I first came to live in Austin and I probably could if I made some sacrifices. And that is the problem. I don't want to make those sacrifices! I'm happy the way I am and I'm healthy and I'm strong enough to do a head stand (a yoga pose that requires balance and lots of core strength). Who cares if I don't fit in my 32 inch waist jeans anymore? I'm not 24 anymore, I'm allowed to have a larger midsection... :)
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Marina - 22 Nov 2004 04:31 GMT >> At least she didn't say "You need to lose weight. You should be a >> size 4!" > > My mom always nags me about loosing weight. It used to be the smoking, > which when I finally quit, actually caused me to gain weight (that's my > story and I'm sticking to it!)... :) LOL, Victor, that's my story, too. I've gained 30 kg since I quit smoking.
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Adrian - 23 Nov 2004 09:59 GMT >>> At least she didn't say "You need to lose weight. You should be a >>> size 4!" [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > LOL, Victor, that's my story, too. I've gained 30 kg since I quit > smoking. Maybe I can afford to add some more, I've only gained 22kg, about 45 pounds, since I quit 3 years ago. :-)
 Signature Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.
Marina - 23 Nov 2004 19:26 GMT >>>>At least she didn't say "You need to lose weight. You should be a >>>>size 4!" [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Maybe I can afford to add some more, I've only gained 22kg, about 45 > pounds, since I quit 3 years ago. :-) You still have time. I quit ten years ago. :o)
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SUQKRT - 22 Nov 2004 19:00 GMT >At least she didn't say "You need to lose weight. You should be a >size 4!" [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >"I'm having trouble at work, they say I'm not fititng in." >"Well you do have a history of that." Would Japanese be ok? I've met Tak and he's atrractive, loves cats, and very nice. Of course he's not a vet and lives here in Mass. Its only cold 5-6 month a year. I think i'm going to get in trouble for this. Suz Macmoosette =^..^= =^..^= =^..^= =^..^= =^..^= =^..^=
"People that hate cats will come back as mice in their next life." --Faith Resnick
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Takayuki - 23 Nov 2004 04:23 GMT >Would Japanese be ok? I've met Tak and he's atrractive, loves cats, and very >nice. Of course he's not a vet and lives here in Mass. Its only cold 5-6 month >a year. I think i'm going to get in trouble for this. Is it really that cold that long around here? Hmm, I guess you're right! :)
The Chinese issue can be a bit tricky. Some Chinese really hate the Japanese because of the atrocities they committed during WWII. I try to claim innocence, since I come from a peaceful family line, and even my parents weren't born yet when the war ended. It's less of an issue with the newer generations.
Kreisleriana - 23 Nov 2004 14:18 GMT >>Would Japanese be ok? I've met Tak and he's atrractive, loves cats, and very >>nice. Of course he's not a vet and lives here in Mass. Its only cold 5-6 month [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >my parents weren't born yet when the war ended. It's less of an issue >with the newer generations. I just went to see the Sondheim musical, Pacific Overtures (in previews for a Broadway revival). It's about the "opening" of Japan to the west. It was an amazing experience.
Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com
jmcquown - 23 Nov 2004 16:11 GMT >> Would Japanese be ok? I've met Tak and he's atrractive, loves cats, >> and very nice. Of course he's not a vet and lives here in Mass. Its [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > The Chinese issue can be a bit tricky. Some Chinese really hate the > Japanese (snippage) I notice you didn't object to Suz suggesting maybe you and Mischief hook up (wink wink).
Jill
Mischief - 23 Nov 2004 19:55 GMT My family doesn't have a problem with the Chinese/Japanese thing. In fact my aunt is Japanese.
I've mentioned it to my father and he starts talking about how hard it is for child from mixed ethnicities to grow up and yadda yadda yadda, it makes no sense at all.
My dad's cousin married a Caucasian guy. I'm told the elder generation didn't approve at first, but they eventually came around.
I think my parent's just want the guy to be asian.
I remember about 7 years ago, while I was going to UCLA, my father asked me if I had met any nice Asian boys. My first impulse was to slug him, but I kept my cool and explained things.
At that time I was a theater major at UCLA. If anyone is familiar with the UCLA campus, you know there is a North campus and South campus. North campus is for art, music, theater, film, etc, while South campus is where all the science majors hang out. In the four years I was at UCLA, I hardly ever had any classes in South campus, where coincidentally, most of the guys are Asian. In fact where I took classes, the guys were most Caucasian, and because it was the theater department, most of them were gay.
And even now, I'm in school where there are not many Asians AND the other students happen to be girls, so there's not that many guys around.
I know I should put myself out there, but that kinda takes time and money, both of which I have little to spare. I even tried the online dating thing, but that got old after a few years too. I figured just to stop looking all together. Cause i know with me and my uncanny ability to have random things just happen to me; if I DON'T look for it, it probably will come hit me upside the head when I least expect it.
Okay, I need to stop before I get all depressed.
Kristi
Monique Y. Mudama - 23 Nov 2004 20:25 GMT > I know I should put myself out there, but that kinda takes time and money, > both of which I have little to spare. I even tried the online dating thing, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Okay, I need to stop before I get all depressed. Don't get depressed! Not looking for a relationship is a great way to start one. That way, you can get to know people in your own time, and *then* decide if you want to take it to the romance level. Granted, it might be a little harder in an all-girl environment or in theater, but I *do* know there are hottie, hetero guys in drama departments.
I first started talking to my husband in an IRC channel used to discuss an online game. I'd seen him around, but didn't really care for him before I got to know him. My mom figured out that I had a thing for him long before I did. In fact, the first time I talked to her on the phone after talking to him on the phone, my mom asked me if I had a new boyfriend. "What?? No! I mean, there's this guy, I've been talking to him ... but he's in Colorado. I'm done with the long distance thing." A week later, he and I were arranging travel plans.
Random least-expected encounters can lead to wonderful things =)
 Signature monique
Elise - 23 Nov 2004 23:45 GMT > I figured just > to stop looking all together. Cause i know with me and my uncanny [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Kristi After my divorce, while I wasn't actively looking I also didn't want to be alone all the time. When I finally was happy with myself and with being alone I met the man who is now my husband. Just like you said, when I least expected it, Cupid whacked me upside the head :)
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Tanada - 24 Nov 2004 04:08 GMT > I know I should put myself out there, but that kinda takes time and > money, both of which I have little to spare. I even tried the online [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > it, it probably will come hit me upside the head when I least expect > it. I met Rob after I decided that I'd be a single mother for the rest of my life. We met over AD&D, and became best friends before taking the relationship any further. We were both hesitant, because we didn't want to risk ruining the friendship. We're still best friends, though we pick on each other a lot and those who don't know us well would think we hate each other.
Pam S.
Yowie - 24 Nov 2004 04:58 GMT > > I know I should put myself out there, but that kinda takes time and > > money, both of which I have little to spare. I even tried the online [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > pick on each other a lot and those who don't know us well would think we > hate each other. Wow, our stories are remarkably similar! Joel & I met at a roleplaying club, we became best of friends, wasn't sure if we wanted to take the relationship further (but also desperately wanted to, if that makes sense), still best friends, and still like teasing the life out of the other. We can have what other people would think would be a huge domestic right in front ofpeople, with great big silly grins on our faces. We know no shame - or dignity!
Yowie
Tanada - 25 Nov 2004 04:41 GMT > Wow, our stories are remarkably similar! Joel & I met at a roleplaying club, > we became best of friends, wasn't sure if we wanted to take the relationship > further (but also desperately wanted to, if that makes sense), still best > friends, and still like teasing the life out of the other. We can have what > other people would think would be a huge domestic right in front ofpeople, > with great big silly grins on our faces. We know no shame - or dignity! People KNOW if we're having a serious argument. One can't miss it. But our usual conversation seems to be degrading to most people, but it honestly isn't. We joke about me being a charter member of Blondes Anon, Rob needing his screws tightened, Mandy having permanent PMS, Mike having an intelligence of 14 and a wisdom of 3 (gamers would understand this one) and so forth. On our way up to Kitterel NC today to pick up Mike, I was imitating the weasel in the Budwiser Spokesanimal commercials. OK, I'm not normal. But we have way too much fun.
Pam S.
Adrian - 24 Nov 2004 14:36 GMT >> Would Japanese be ok? I've met Tak and he's atrractive, loves cats, >> and very nice. Of course he's not a vet and lives here in Mass. Its [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > my parents weren't born yet when the war ended. It's less of an issue > with the newer generations. I think if you go back in history you'll find atrocities committed by most nationalities. :-(
 Signature Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.
Karen - 24 Nov 2004 21:04 GMT > >> Would Japanese be ok? I've met Tak and he's atrractive, loves cats, > >> and very nice. Of course he's not a vet and lives here in Mass. Its [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I think if you go back in history you'll find atrocities committed by > most nationalities. :-( War is hell.
Enfilade - 25 Nov 2004 02:27 GMT > > >> Would Japanese be ok? I've met Tak and he's atrractive, loves cats, > > >> and very nice. Of course he's not a vet and lives here in Mass. Its > > >> only cold 5-6 month a year. I think i'm going to get in trouble for > > >> this. I say find someone nice and who cares what his ethnicity is. Your parents should be more concerned about how he treats you and less about where his family originated. (Hint: Find someone you can teach about YOUR ethnicity; some knowledge on his part might impress your family even if he is not Asian himself)
I learned long ago that it is hard not to be hurt when your mother tells you that you are fat/ugly/irrational/insane/hateful (I've been called all of the above) but honestly, her issues are less about me, and more about that she'd rather blame me for being fat at 150 lbs than face the fact that she is 210; doesn't want to admit that she can't control me to dress the way she made me when I lived under her roof; doesn't want to face her own issues; doesn't want to accept that depression is a disease that she can't protect moe from, rather than me wilfully choosing to be a jerk to spite her. It is her burden, not mine. I do not need to accept those things as my burden to bear.
--Fil
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 25 Nov 2004 03:23 GMT > and more about that she'd rather blame me for being fat at 150 lbs > than face the fact that she is 210 I would not consider 150 lbs "fat" - unless you're 3 feet tall, maybe. In a society where "normal" is a stick figure, 150 may seem fat, but from a more healthy perspective, it really isn't. It's quite average, actually.
I agree that these are your mother's issues, not yours. It takes a lot of time and work to unhook yourself from them, though, because our parents tend to *make* their problems into our problem, too. Spreading the joy, you know? :) Seriously, it does seem that part of being a parent involves projecting your own stuff onto your kids, and maybe some amount of that is just unavoidable, since much of it is unconcious. Which is not to say that people can't learn to stop doing it, but it takes a lot of effort and self-awareness. For many people, by the time they've gained that much wisdom, their grandchildren are already adults!
> doesn't want to face her own issues; doesn't want to accept that > depression is a disease that she can't protect moe from, rather than > me wilfully choosing to be a jerk to spite her. Most parents don't want their children to suffer. Some parents can't tolerate even the slightest bit of suffering on their kids' part, because to them that means they're bad parents. So they try to find some way to control it. Blaming someone is a prime tactic here - if you can find someone to blame for a situation, then you have the illusion of control over it. And who better to blame than your child? Ironically, of course, she is causing you even more suffering with all the blame and accusations.
I think you've done really well to be able to separate yourself from her to this degree. Even just the awareness that her problems aren't your problems can go a long way.
Joyce
Enfilade - 25 Nov 2004 19:30 GMT > I would not consider 150 lbs "fat" - unless you're 3 feet tall, maybe. I'm 5'5". I don't feel fat. She tells me I'm fat. Whatever. My clothes fit; Dylan thinks I'm hot; that's all I care.
> I think you've done really well to be able to separate yourself from > her to this degree. Even just the awareness that her problems aren't > your problems can go a long way. Well, I'm in a rational mood now. I'm a little less calm when she provokes me. Like when she changed my eulogy to my grandmother to suit herself, knowing I wouldn't find out until after the funeral, since I couldn't attend it. Cripes, I was ready to /kill/ for days afterwards.
Thanks Tweed *Snugs*
--Fil
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 25 Nov 2004 23:09 GMT > Well, I'm in a rational mood now. I'm a little less calm when she > provokes me. Aren't we all?
> Like when she changed my eulogy to my grandmother to > suit herself, knowing I wouldn't find out until after the funeral, > since I couldn't attend it. Cripes, I was ready to /kill/ for days > afterwards. A tad controlling, is she? Aaargh, I'd be ready to write *her* a eulogy for that one!
Joyce
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 26 Nov 2004 23:00 GMT > > Well, I'm in a rational mood now. I'm a little less calm when she > > provokes me. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > A tad controlling, is she? Aaargh, I'd be ready to write *her* a eulogy > for that one! I'm with you, Joyce! If she wanted to eulogize the same person, why didn't she write one of her own? I don't think funerals are limited to one - I've attended some where several people spoke. (Sometimes poeple who'd known the deceased in different aspects of his/her life, but not always.)
> Joyce Christina Websell - 25 Nov 2004 03:38 GMT >that it is hard not to be hurt when your mother > tells you that you are fat/ugly/irrational/insane/hateful (I've been [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > --Fil Ah, Fil (hugs) Clinical depression is the worst disease you can have. As a life-threatening illness it's up there with heart disease and cancer.. Depression is just the pits. Purrs that you feel better soon (and purrs that I get over mine)
Tweed
Tanada - 25 Nov 2004 04:46 GMT > I think if you go back in history you'll find atrocities committed by > most nationalities. :-( Sadly, the animosity between Japanese and Chinese, and Japanese and Koreans is historic and vast. Jason (my oldest son, then aged 6) once asked his pediatrician if she were Chinese. She snapped "I'm of Chinese descent" at him and went on with the exam. I explained later that there was a lot of hatred between the two cultures because of wars and each conquering the other's countries. This led to some research into Japanese history, and some stories I knew about my father's service in the Pacific in W.W.II as well as my Uncle Ernest who died in a POW camp in the Philippines. Jason was fascinated and started doing research on his own. Not bad for a six year old.
Pam S.
Takayuki - 25 Nov 2004 05:14 GMT >Sadly, the animosity between Japanese and Chinese, and Japanese and >Koreans is historic and vast. Jason (my oldest son, then aged 6) once >asked his pediatrician if she were Chinese. She snapped "I'm of Chinese >descent" at him and went on with the exam. Just speaking personally, I don't mind at all being mistaken for Chinese, Korean, or any other ethnicity. It happens all the time. I had a toll booth operator say, "Xie xie" (thank you, in Mandarin) to me, and I smiled and said "xie xie" back. :) At the grocery store, a woman asked me if I happened to know the difference between two types of Chinese cabbage. I told her that I would have to go back to China and do some research before I could give her an answer. :)
This reminds me of one of the times I went to Korea, about a zillion years ago. Well something like 10 years ago anyway. I was there representing the interests of a company that wanted to negotiate an integration of their information systems with those with another company. When I got there though, there were lots of people in the streets in colorful costumes, and businesses were all closed. I asked what was going on, and they told me that they were celebrating the 50th anniversary of Korea's liberation from Japan. :)
Tanada - 25 Nov 2004 06:29 GMT > I think if you go back in history you'll find atrocities committed by > most nationalities. :-( Made an error, trying to do this again.
Sadly, the animosity between Japanese and Chinese, and Japanese and Koreans is historic and vast. Jason (my oldest son, then aged 6) once asked his pediatrician if she were Chinese. She snapped "I'm of Japanese descent" at him and went on with the exam. I explained later that there was a lot of hatred between the two cultures because of wars and each conquering the other's countries. This led to some research into Japanese history, and some stories I knew about my father's service in the Pacific in W.W.II as well as my Uncle Ernest who died in a POW camp in the Philippines. Jason was fascinated and started doing research on his own. Not bad for a six year old.
Pam S.
Kreisleriana - 20 Nov 2004 15:20 GMT >When I first lost my job Dad started in with "you'll have to move in with >your brother" crap. No, I'm not moving in with my brother. Now he's got >Mom doing it. I got so frustrated with her yesterday afternoon I finally >said I can't talk about this, gotta go. I'm sure she was angry; I was >agitated. (snip infuriating parental unit crap)
Oh Jill. I am no kid, either, but my parents are very much present in my and my brother's lives, too. Most of the time, as Victor suggests, we are very grateful, but sometimes we need our senses of humor more than anything else. This comes very naturally to my brother. Once when my brother was out of work, my father suggested he "go get a job on Wall Street" My brother just looked at him, and said "Dad, do you have some other son you're confusing me with?" Thank God my dad laughed, and got the point. I'm not as good at this as my brother, but I'm getting better.
Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com
CatNipped - 20 Nov 2004 15:57 GMT {{{{{{{{{{Jill}}}}}}}}}}
I know just what you're going through! Over the years I would always turn to my mom for comfort when something went wrong and all I got was "I told you so", "You made your bed now lie in it", and "Don't look to me for help" - after which she would tell me how wonderful my brothers were and what excellent lives they were living. There was a time when I was divorced from an abusive alcoholic, had two small children, the ex had cancelled the kids' insurance, had stolen my car and owed me $40,000 in back child support. I was working for minimum wage and going to college full time at night, and the kids and I were living off of beans and stale peanut butter sandwiches (with no jelly!). One day I asked my mom for 50 cents for the kids lunch money (they were getting reduced-fee lunches). She said no. SHE SAID NO!!!! She wouldn't cough up 50 cents so that her grandchildren would have the one hot meal they ever got!!
Finally, over the years, I learned that I could only tell my mom the good things that happened to me, the bad things I had to deal with quietly on my own. That, and moving 400 miles away from her ;>, is the only thing that keeps our relationship together.
However, I have put a spin on it like this... by her being that way I had to learn how to cope on my own, I had to learn how to be strong and support not only myself, but my kids. Today, the kids are grown, have wonderful, productive lives and loving families (despite having had an abusive alcoholic for a father). I am doing fantastic, have a wonderful, sweet, sensitive, loving husband, a beautiful (if a bit of a fixer-upper) home, and when I lost my job last Christmas, I picked myself back up and got on with my life - it wasn't a disaster because I had lived through real disasters and knew how to cope.
Anyway, all the above is to let you know I know what you're coping with. It's so tempting to want to go to your mother or father for comfort, and *SO* hurtful when they give you grief instead, but if you learn to keep your conversations with them light and breezy, they won't have the ammunition to hurt you with.
Hugs,
CatNipped
> When I first lost my job Dad started in with "you'll have to move in with > your brother" crap. No, I'm not moving in with my brother. Now he's got [quoted text clipped - 114 lines] > > Jill CatNipped - 20 Nov 2004 15:57 GMT {{{{{{{{{{Jill}}}}}}}}}}
I know just what you're going through! Over the years I would always turn to my mom for comfort when something went wrong and all I got was "I told you so", "You made your bed now lie in it", and "Don't look to me for help" - after which she would tell me how wonderful my brothers were and what excellent lives they were living. There was a time when I was divorced from an abusive alcoholic, had two small children, the ex had cancelled the kids' insurance, had stolen my car and owed me $40,000 in back child support. I was working for minimum wage and going to college full time at night, and the kids and I were living off of beans and stale peanut butter sandwiches (with no jelly!). One day I asked my mom for 50 cents for the kids lunch money (they were getting reduced-fee lunches). She said no. SHE SAID NO!!!! She wouldn't cough up 50 cents so that her grandchildren would have the one hot meal they ever got!!
Finally, over the years, I learned that I could only tell my mom the good things that happened to me, the bad things I had to deal with quietly on my own. That, and moving 400 miles away from her ;>, is the only thing that keeps our relationship together.
However, I have put a spin on it like this... by her being that way I had to learn how to cope on my own, I had to learn how to be strong and support not only myself, but my kids. Today, the kids are grown, have wonderful, productive lives and loving families (despite having had an abusive alcoholic for a father). I am doing fantastic, have a wonderful, sweet, sensitive, loving husband, a beautiful (if a bit of a fixer-upper) home, and when I lost my job last Christmas, I picked myself back up and got on with my life - it wasn't a disaster because I had lived through real disasters and knew how to cope.
Anyway, all the above is to let you know I know what you're coping with. It's so tempting to want to go to your mother or father for comfort, and *SO* hurtful when they give you grief instead, but if you learn to keep your conversations with them light and breezy, they won't have the ammunition to hurt you with.
Hugs,
CatNipped
> When I first lost my job Dad started in with "you'll have to move in with > your brother" crap. No, I'm not moving in with my brother. Now he's got [quoted text clipped - 114 lines] > > Jill Sherry - 20 Nov 2004 16:32 GMT >Finally, over the years, I learned that I could only tell my mom the good >things that happened to me, the bad things I had to deal with quietly on my >own. Oh, Catnipped. I too figured this out long ago.
Sherry
jmcquown - 20 Nov 2004 18:19 GMT > {{{{{{{{{{Jill}}}}}}}}}} > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > look to me for > help" Now that's sad, I'm so sorry! {{{{{{{{{{Catnipped}}}}}}}}}
But see, Mom has always been supportive of me; in fact, I still consider her my best friend - we are just on the outs right now. It's only lately she's letting my dad's opinion rule.
- after which she would tell me how wonderful my brothers were
> and what excellent lives they were living. There was a time when I > was divorced from an abusive alcoholic, had two small children, the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > One day I asked my mom for 50 cents for the kids lunch money (they > were getting reduced-fee lunches). She said no. SHE SAID NO!!!! Now that sucks. Gosh, I'm sorry to hear that.
> She wouldn't cough up 50 cents so that her grandchildren would have > the one hot meal they ever got!! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > quietly on my own. That, and moving 400 miles away from her ;>, is > the only thing that keeps our relationship together. My parents moved away back in 1986. And I haven't been telling them anything, that's kinda the point. All I said back last May was I'd lost my job. Dad immediately fronted the idea I'd need to move in with my brother. No, no, no.
I did make the mistake of saying I thought I had a job a couple of weeks ago. When that fell through suddenly I'm no longer able to function as an adult without being told where to live and with whom.
> However, I have put a spin on it like this... by her being that way I > had to learn how to cope on my own, I had to learn how to be strong [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > myself back up and got on with my life - it wasn't a disaster because > I had lived through real disasters and knew how to cope. Kudos to you! It's not easy, is it? I had an abusive ex-husband but (thankfully) no kids so he didn't have to remain a part of my life. He did, however, harrass & threaten me, vandalize my property, follow me around, call me at work for 1.5 years *after* the divorce. I documented every instance and got permission at work to record my phone calls (my home phone was unlisted and still is to this day). I finally found a police officer who didn't give me the song and dance about how it was a "civil matter". Managed to get him picked up, tried and sent to prison for 11 months 29 days. For those outside the state of Tennessee, a sentence of 11/29 means you don't get time off for good behavior or early parole. You serve every single day of that sentence. He never bothered me again after that but it cost me a lot of time, stress and aggravation.
> Anyway, all the above is to let you know I know what you're coping > with. It's so tempting to want to go to your mother or father for > comfort, and *SO* hurtful when they give you grief instead, but if > you learn to keep your conversations with them light and breezy, they > won't have the ammunition to hurt you with. Agreed. I have to work on that. I shouldn't have let my mom upset me; she's just parroting what my dad said to her.
Speaking of parrots, Peaches is munching down in some fresh kale. I washed it and left water all over it and I swear she's practically batheing in it!
> Hugs, > > CatNipped Hugs back :)
Jill
>> When I first lost my job Dad started in with "you'll have to move in >> with your brother" crap. No, I'm not moving in with my brother. [quoted text clipped - 120 lines] >> >> Jill Sherry - 20 Nov 2004 16:16 GMT >Okay, I think that's the end of my rant. (big sigh) > >Jill (big sigh with you, and big hug too)
I dunno, Jill. If I knew the answers, I'd use it on my own father. But here's what I do. I listen intently, agree that (whatever) sounds like a good idea, and I'll sure think hard on it. Then when he leaves, I completely clean whatever inane suggestion it was out of my brain and totally forget about it. Even as I get close to 50, I still feel morally obligated to listen respectfully, as I'm sure you do too. As he gets close to 80, he is realizing we generally don't pay much attention to what he says anyway, when he's bossing us. Fortuately we have a rebel nephew who is constantly pulling some boneheaded stunt, and Father is so busy fretting about him, he forgets about me and my sister. Sherry
Yoj - 20 Nov 2004 19:16 GMT > When I first lost my job Dad started in with "you'll have to move in with > your brother" crap. No, I'm not moving in with my brother. Now he's got [quoted text clipped - 114 lines] > > Jill (((((((((((((((Jill))))))))))))))
You need mega-hugs and purrs, Jill! Families can be a real pain, can't they? I fully understand why you can't move in with your brother. I hope you find a good job quickly and can assure everybody that you're fine on your own.
I think you're very wise not to try to rush things with John. If and when that time comes, you want it to be because you're both ready, not out of desperation.
Joy
Christine Burel - 20 Nov 2004 20:32 GMT Jill, if there's one thing I finally learned it's not to tell my mother much -- she always has advice whether I want it or not and she never listens to what I say. So, if you want sympathy and support always go to your friends not your relatives. Hang in there! Christine
> When I first lost my job Dad started in with "you'll have to move in with > your brother" crap. No, I'm not moving in with my brother. Now he's got [quoted text clipped - 114 lines] > > Jill EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 20 Nov 2004 21:23 GMT > When I first lost my job Dad started in with "you'll have to move in with > your brother" crap. No, I'm not moving in with my brother. Now he's got > Mom doing it. I got so frustrated with her yesterday afternoon I finally > said I can't talk about this, gotta go. I'm sure she was angry; I was > agitated. <snip>
You remind me why I moved three thousand miles away from my family, as soon as I was able to do so! I knew they loved me, but children never completely grow up in their parents' eyes, and if you have a Mom like mine, for whom there was HER way and the "wrong way" for doing almost anything, it was much easier to be "out of sight" if not "out of mind"!
Enfilade - 25 Nov 2004 02:22 GMT > You remind me why I moved three thousand miles away from my > family, as soon as I was able to do so! Yes, me too!
And why I spent so many nights in high school on friends' couches, in the local airport, in cars, etc and why I joined the cadets/military while I was in high school.
I go visit my family twice a year--I'm going right before Solstice, and am gearing up already to be patient.
--Fil
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 25 Nov 2004 03:13 GMT > I go visit my family twice a year--I'm going right before Solstice, > and am gearing up already to be patient. I would be gearing up to be *a* patient, ie, in the nearest psych unit. :)
Actually, that's not so true anymore, my family doesn't drive me crazy the way they used to, in fact I can enjoy seeing them now. But at one time, I definitely felt way off-kilter after spending time with them and it took me a long time to recover.
Joyce
Bob M - 25 Nov 2004 16:36 GMT > > I go visit my family twice a year--I'm going right before Solstice, > > and am gearing up already to be patient. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Joyce There is a great movie called "Home for the Holidays" that touches on this. Holly Hunter has the leading role and as an adult she goes home to her parents house for Thanksgiving. One line in the movie is my favorite. She's looking around at everyone and thinks "Who are these people?" It's a great comedy and perfect for this time of year if you haven't seen it yet. I watch it every year because it fits my family. Ann Bancroft and Robert Downy Jr. also play great parts in it.
Bob
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 25 Nov 2004 23:03 GMT > There is a great movie called "Home for the Holidays" that touches on > this. Holly Hunter has the leading role and as an adult she goes home to > her parents house for Thanksgiving. You know, I've never seen that movie. And I love Holly Hunter. I should definitely put that on my Netflix* queue.
Joyce
*Netflix is an online DVD rental service.
badwilson - 25 Nov 2004 03:40 GMT > > You remind me why I moved three thousand miles away from my > > family, as soon as I was able to do so! [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > --Fil LOL! Me too! I left home mere weeks after I turned 18, went to college a 12 hour drive away and never lived at home again. Now I'm living in Thailand and we go home every 18 months or so and that's even too often! Planning to settle permanently in Australia and going home once every 3 years. Aaaaahhhhh, heaven :-) -- Britta Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that's covered in fur! Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album
Tanada - 25 Nov 2004 04:51 GMT > I go visit my family twice a year--I'm going right before Solstice, > and am gearing up already to be patient. > > --Fil That often? I divorced myself from most of my family 12 years ago, as I was tired of being verbally and emotionally abused by them. I took it for a long time, but they started on my kids (the half sister wanted me to divorce Rob so that he could marry her younger daughter) and that was the final straw.
Pam S. who's sister BELONGS in a mental ward
Cathi - 25 Nov 2004 06:25 GMT >> I go visit my family twice a year--I'm going right before Solstice, >> and am gearing up already to be patient. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >me to divorce Rob so that he could marry her younger daughter) and that >was the final straw. WHAT??????? Good heavens!
Even though I moan like crazy about my second brother (I have three, all rather older than me, plus a sister), even he and I agree that the eldest is just a - well, words fail me.
My mum's second husband died relatively suddenly late last year (although he was in his nineties, he was remarkably active, and his illness/demise took everyone by surprise). Brother 1 had barely spoken to Mum in over a year, and hadn't been to visit, for the moth pathetic of reasons. When finally persuaded to ring her by my other two brothers (I think threats to his person might have been involved) he informed her - a grieving woman - that she needn't expect him to visit her, as she lived too far away. He lives 40 miles away. Most of which is lovely, straight, motorway.
And better still, he quite happily tells her about how he, his bitch troll from hell wife, their eldest daughter, her husband and kid can all go out for the day .... to a tourist attraction in Hythe, Kent, the small coastal town that my mother happens to live in. But pop in for five minutes? Nah.
The general concensus is that his wife is behind it all. He's just spineless. But the rest of us think he's an utter turd, and he knows it. We're coming up to the usual Christmas meet-up (Mum enjoys seeing all the family under one roof before Christmas) and I'm 99% sure that he will have some kind of excuse lined up as to why he can't go. Personally, I wish he would just admit that he/his wife don't really want anything to do with his family, and make the break.
/ rant
 Signature Cathi
Yowie - 20 Nov 2004 21:59 GMT <snip family shite>
> Okay, I think that's the end of my rant. (big sigh) Sending calming family purrs and more job purrs.
{{{Jill}}}
Yowie
polonca12000 - 20 Nov 2004 22:49 GMT Lots of calming hugs and purrs,
 Signature Polonca & Soncek
> When I first lost my job Dad started in with "you'll have to move in with > your brother" crap. No, I'm not moving in with my brother. <snip bonbon - 21 Nov 2004 02:42 GMT Jill,
Move in with me.
We'll stay up late making kites and eating pumpkin cookies and not do dishes.
-bonbon
Steve Touchstone - 21 Nov 2004 08:57 GMT <snip rant about buttinsky family>
Purrs that they'll butt out, but kind of doubt it since they'll always think of you as their little girl. I know what you're talking about - I love my folks and love to visit, as long as the visit it for a few days Thankfully, in my case, mine sound a lot less judgemental.
 Signature Steve Touchstone, faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Rocky (RB)
stouchst@JUNKsirinet.net [remove Junk for email] Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html
Adrian - 21 Nov 2004 10:37 GMT > When I first lost my job Dad started in with "you'll have to move in > with your brother" crap. No, I'm not moving in with my brother. Now > he's got Mom doing it. I got so frustrated with her yesterday > afternoon I finally said I can't talk about this, gotta go. I'm sure > she was angry; I was agitated. <snip>
> Jill And this is the brother that has let you down more than once? I'm sorry I've no suggestions, all I can do is send more purrs and hope you get a job soon.
Your post reminds me of an advert on British television a few years ago, it featured John Clease being nagged by his mother. His reply was, "Mother, I'm 42 years old and a high court judge" I've no doubt this is a universal thing with parents.
 Signature Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.
Sam Nash - 21 Nov 2004 22:49 GMT > When I first lost my job Dad started in with "you'll have to move in with > your brother" crap. No, I'm not moving in with my brother. Now he's got > Mom doing it. I got so frustrated with her yesterday afternoon I finally > said I can't talk about this, gotta go. I'm sure she was angry; I was > agitated. <snipped> Sorry you're having parent problems. I can relate and sympathize. BTDT. Calming purrs along with the job purrs now enroute. Sam
SUQKRT - 22 Nov 2004 19:00 GMT >Sorry, I'm not moving in with my brother. I'll find something. (If I >were >younger I might even consider exotic dancing, that would thrill them! Just >kidding.) Actually Jill from what I've your pictures you're very attractive.
>Before anyone suggests I move to another state to be with John: Yes, it's >been wonderful reuniting with him after 23 years. But we've really spent [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Jill Are there any vintage clothing stores in your are? Because if I remember right don't you collect them? As a short term feed Persia & Jill job working in that kind of store might be an option. Suz Macmoosette =^..^= =^..^= =^..^= =^..^= =^..^= =^..^=
"People that hate cats will come back as mice in their next life." --Faith Resnick
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