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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / December 2007

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CRF

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yepp - 12 Dec 2007 21:09 GMT
No. 1 cause of death in elderly cats, why isn't there more work in
this area and listed on cat foods? I've learned that this is the most
common cause of death in cats. Isn't there a way to add an additive to
commercial cat foods that helps with this?

Since cats are carnivorous and eat mainly protein, the kidneys are
working overtime as is. Most of the premium foods I buy are #1
protein. Wellness, Cats Food for the Soul, etc.

If cats die so often from kidney failure, why isn't there more
emphasis on changing/recalculating a cat's diet to accommodate this?
Should a cat get more grain? Should they get more of something else in
their diets? Why do the premium brands become premium because they
just have more protein in them?
Karen - 12 Dec 2007 21:39 GMT
WEll, this is an evolving issue. A couple of years ago my vet was telling me
what a contentious subject among vets the idea was that higher, better
protein *was* the best thing. Prior to this, the entire vet community though
lower protein and phosphorus was the key (I really don't understand the
though that lower protein would help a carnivore, but I'm sure there is
something to do with kidney function involved). However, there is a split
now on that notion. Also, feline nutrition in general is still a big debate.
I think the "catkins" idea is finally emerging as the best thing for the
species, but it is slow going. No cat needs more, or really *any* grain.

> No. 1 cause of death in elderly cats, why isn't there more work in
> this area and listed on cat foods? I've learned that this is the most
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> their diets? Why do the premium brands become premium because they
> just have more protein in them?
yepp - 12 Dec 2007 21:42 GMT
> WEll, this is an evolving issue. A couple of years ago my vet was telling me
> what a contentious subject among vets the idea was that higher, better
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> > their diets? Why do the premium brands become premium because they
> > just have more protein in them?

Just wondering.  Never heard of "catkins" but if anything like Atkins,
it is all protein.
Karen - 13 Dec 2007 00:34 GMT
>> WEll, this is an evolving issue. A couple of years ago my vet was telling me
>> what a contentious subject among vets the idea was that higher, better
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> Just wondering.  Never heard of "catkins" but if anything like Atkins,
> it is all protein.

If you would like to read about info from a vet who really knows her
stuff see http://www.catinfo.org
bastXXXette@sonic.net - 12 Dec 2007 21:52 GMT
> No. 1 cause of death in elderly cats, why isn't there more work in
> this area and listed on cat foods? I've learned that this is the most
> common cause of death in cats. Isn't there a way to add an additive to
> commercial cat foods that helps with this?

I wonder if it's because, in nature, cats don't live as long as they
do in a domestic situation. They evolved to eat mostly meat (although
they do get carbs, calcium, and other minerals from their natural
diet as well), so when they start to live longer than the normal life
span of a cat in the wild, their kidneys are often the first thing to
go. Whereas in the wild, they would be as likely to die of starvation
or predation, or other illnesses, as kidney failure, if they were lucky
enough to get old enough to have it. It's just that, through years of
domestication, and especially recently, with keeping cats indoors and
a better quality of diet and health care overall, we have developed
expectations of a longer life in cats. But eventually, *something* has
to end their lives, as with all life.

The same thing happens with humans. We're living longer and longer, and
now we're dying of things that most of our ancestors didn't get. Some of
this has to do with the stresses of modern life, environmental pollution,
processed foods, etc, that didn't exist long ago. But it's also due to
the fact that more of us are getting really old. A different set of
things go wrong at 85 than what happens to people at 55. So now we're
seeing diseases that many people didn't used to live long enough to get.

Joyce
yepp - 12 Dec 2007 21:58 GMT
On Dec 12, 4:52 pm, bastXXXe...@sonic.net wrote:

>  > No. 1 cause of death in elderly cats, why isn't there more work in
>  > this area and listed on cat foods? I've learned that this is the most
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Joyce

Good points Joyce.  I just think that at least here in the U.S., we've
been keeping indoor only cats for the last several decades at least
and if this is a major problem with death among cats, why haven't
we've seen labels like CRF food or something?  I mean it's been since
the 70s or so that I've heard to keep cats indoors and feed premium
food.
bastXXXette@sonic.net - 12 Dec 2007 22:01 GMT
>> I wonder if it's because, in nature, cats don't live as long as they
>> do in a domestic situation. They evolved to eat mostly meat (although
>> they do get carbs, calcium, and other minerals from their natural
>> diet as well), so when they start to live longer than the normal life
>> span of a cat in the wild, their kidneys are often the first thing to
>> go.

> Good points Joyce.  I just think that at least here in the U.S., we've
> been keeping indoor only cats for the last several decades at least
> and if this is a major problem with death among cats, why haven't
> we've seen labels like CRF food or something?  I mean it's been since
> the 70s or so that I've heard to keep cats indoors and feed premium
> food.

Also, I realized after I posted, that Casey wasn't that old. So my logic
above wouldn't apply to your situation. I wonder what percentage of cats
who die young die of kidney failure? (Sorry if that sounds kind of cold
and analytical. You got me interested, so now I'm trying to figure it out!)

Joyce
Adrian A - 12 Dec 2007 22:00 GMT
>> No. 1 cause of death in elderly cats, why isn't there more work in
>> this area and listed on cat foods? I've learned that this is the most
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Joyce

I understood that the first thing a cat in the wild does is eviscerate it's
prey, thereby eating the stomach contents of herbivores, giving the cat the
vegetable matter it needs. Maybe that's why cats like to eat grass
sometimes, it gives them something they know is good for them.
yepp - 12 Dec 2007 22:12 GMT
> bastXXXe...@sonic.net wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> vegetable matter it needs. Maybe that's why cats like to eat grass
> sometimes, it gives them something they know is good for them.

Well, we have cat grass and I feed that but lots of owners don't.  It
just seems that there is a lack of study with this CRF.  When I talk
about Casey's passing, numerous people have reported their cats passed
the same way.  My vet says most cats over 7 (considered senior) die
from kidney problems of some sort.  It just seems there must be more
kidney-friendly foods available even if cats are carnivores and with
all the vet care we experience, I'm sort of surprised I haven't heard
of some other food to feed my cat other than the most expensive
premium brands that advertise Chicken or Beef or Lamb and the No. 1
ingredient.
bastXXXette@sonic.net - 12 Dec 2007 23:09 GMT
> It just seems there must be more
> kidney-friendly foods available even if cats are carnivores and with
> all the vet care we experience, I'm sort of surprised I haven't heard
> of some other food to feed my cat other than the most expensive
> premium brands that advertise Chicken or Beef or Lamb and the No. 1
> ingredient.

I would imagine that the ideal diet for a cat is live mice and other
small mammals, birds and reptiles. :) But I also would imagine that
feeding these to your cat wouldn't be particularly pleasant. So we feed
them a somewhat artificial diet, which probably isn't the best food
they could possibly eat, but comes closest to it.

Joyce
Monique Y. Mudama - 13 Dec 2007 00:03 GMT
> No. 1 cause of death in elderly cats, why isn't there more work in
> this area and listed on cat foods? I've learned that this is the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> in their diets? Why do the premium brands become premium because
> they just have more protein in them?

To the best of my knowledge, grain is not a good thing for cats.  It
can cause diabetes, and my vet says she's gotten many a diabetic cat
off of insulin just by removing all dry foods from the menu.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Christina Websell - 14 Dec 2007 18:47 GMT
> No. 1 cause of death in elderly cats, why isn't there more work in
> this area and listed on cat foods? I've learned that this is the most
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> their diets? Why do the premium brands become premium because they
> just have more protein in them?

Dry food is loaded with protein, 30% or so.  Wet food is around 8.
Considering what a normal diet should be for a cat, i.e. birds, rodents,
with a high moisture content I would not choose to give my cats dry food as
their main diet.  Boyfie gets a sprinkle of dry food a couple of times a
week because he loves it but it would certainly not be his main diet.
Kitty FC has managed to live her long life of 22 years because of her diet
(I think.)  She was feral for many years and ate birds, mice and rats.  She
likes nothing better than to eat a collared dove even now, providing Boyfie
gets her one..she will leave any commercial food to eat one.  It takes her
two days now to eat it when once it would have taken only a day.  Feathers,
beak, legs all disappear down her tiny throat.
She has CRF now herself, but I guess *something*  will threaten her life at
her great age.

You have lost your beloved kitty with CRF, too young. ((hugs))
What part commercial cat food plays in CRF I don't really know, but my gut
feeling is that dry food as a total diet is a no-no. I would not like to
load my cat's kidneys for many years with 30% dry protein.

Tweed
Ginger-lyn - 27 Dec 2007 17:35 GMT
> No. 1 cause of death in elderly cats, why isn't there more work in
> this area and listed on cat foods? I've learned that this is the most
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> their diets? Why do the premium brands become premium because they
> just have more protein in them?

I don't know if that's the answer, but if it is, that should be easy
enough to fix.  It's just a matter of convincing the food makers, I
would think.

I personally am more convinced that it's the water.  Having talked to
two people who know of what they speak (one works for the EPA, the other
the water department), our tap water is just horrible (at least in my
area, and I am sure it is the same many other places).  Neither one will
give their cats tap water; only bottled.  I am frustrated, being without
transportation, because it is almost impossible for me to do this
anymore, although I did it for years.  And although Cosmo was diagnosed
with CRF, he was diagnosed in May 2000, and he is still with us.  It
wouldn't surprise me in the least if the bottled water is the reason.

Ginger-lyn
just surmising

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