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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / November 2007I won't be doing that again any time soon! [OT and long]
Thanksgiving. Yeah. I'm thankful I'm back home. I'm thankful I'm not being bitched at and lectured all day long. I'm thankful I'm home where Persia loves me and snuggles with me and doesn't tell me everything that is wrong with me. Or everything that is wrong with everyone else in the family, either. We just don't have a great family dynamic thing going on. All Scott did was criticize everyone, all day long. Lecture about this and that. I was fed up even before the meal but I stayed. After I'd been there for almost 6 hours (and well after dinner) I said I was ready to go home. Scott pitched a fit. Told me I couldn't leave, that I had to spend the night in the guest room. Excuse me? I said no, sorry, I want to go home. He said something like after all he's done for me this year the least I could do was stay. WHAT? What he's done for me? I'm the one who stayed with him when he got out of the hospital after his surgery. I'm the one who washed his hair over the sink the night he got home. I'm the one who changed his bandages. I'm the one who took him to doctor when they removed the chest tube. He did... hmmmm, what was it he did for me again? Certainly it wasn't to reimburse me for the gas money to drive all around. So then he tried a different strategy... well, you've been drinking so you can't drive. What, one and a half glasses of wine during dinner which was served at 2 and now it's 4? Sorry dude, I'm quite capable of driving and am well under the legal limit. You're the one who has been guzzling wine since Noon. I spent the entire day being lectured (and listening to my other brother, his girlfriend and my nephew being lectured) about how we need to change our lives. I just wanted to go home, hug Persia and relax in my own home. I didn't expect a huge argument about it. But he actually said to me, "The damn cat will manage, stop worrying about the cat." No, how about *you'll* manage. I'm going home now. And I won't be going back anytime soon. I've revised my thinking about him being a good candidate for a cat. He just doesn't have it in him to put a cat ahead of his own agenda. Seems like he thinks they're disposable... like forget about the cat, don't worry about the litter box, that kind of thing. Sorry, dude. I don't care if you are my brother, it just doesn't work that way. At least when I board Persia I know she's taken care of and people play with her and pet her. She's such a sweetie, she deserves that. BTW, Lori (Catnipped)... Scott found your chef's cat site with my recipes. He quizzed me as to why I'm not going to school to be a chef, like my Dad suggested. He said I must consider myself a chef since you named the link Chef's Cat. I most certainly do not! I said Scott, it's just a cute name Lori came up with for the web site.. I don't consider myself a chef; I'm a good cook, yes. But I don't want to be a chef and I don't want to cook for a living. This is what I'm dealing with. And I won't be going back over there for Christmas, trust me. It was a stressful day. I need a soak in a hot tub with some soothing bath salts to get the tension out of my shoulders. Then I need to hug Persia again :) Jill > Thanksgiving. Yeah. I'm thankful I'm back home. I'm thankful I'm not > being bitched at and lectured all day long. [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > Jill Sorry you had a crappy holiday. But, Jill--I know I've harped at you before about this--but you've got to make allowances for Scott. He's looked at lung cancer square in the face. Do you know that I have never known *anyone* to survive lung cancer. Everyone I know who's had it, even after surgery/chemo/radiation, the cancer came back. It's one of the deadliest cancers. Scott knows this. He has had a tremendous amount of trauma to his body and spirit. That's got to affect him deeply. Sometimes we've just gotta suck up and get along. I'd love to have my brother bitching at me to stay longer, and my mother and father driving me crazy. My brother died when I was a kid. My mother died when I was 19, after two horrible, lingering years. My father went into the hospital October 1 to have aneuryism surgery, suffered a heart attack afterwards, had emergency bypass surgery, had to have three toes amputated 3 days ago, and has completely lost his mind. I don't think he'll ever see another Thanksgiving turkey, and if he does, he probably won't know what it is. My daughter is a nurse, and works holidays. So DH, our only son, and I went to a restaurant for T-giving dinner. Oh my, the food was horrible. But in a weird kind of way, I was really thankful that my immediate family is intact, and all of us*able* to go to a crapppy restaurant and eat horrible buffet food. :-) Sherry >> Thanksgiving. Yeah. I'm thankful I'm back home. I'm >> thankful I'm not >> being bitched at and lectured all day long. >> Jill [snipped] > Sorry you had a crappy holiday. But, Jill--I know I've harped > at you [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Sherry Geeze, I wonder if Jill feels any better after reading your post :( I have a very good friend who had half of his lung removed due to lung cancer about 15 years ago, and he's still around -- about to turn 70! He's not as healthy as he'd like to be, and he's on oxygen now (for about 6 months now) -- but he's still with us and living a pretty full life. He travels, he plays bridge at the local club twice a week, and in general has a good quality life. Just because someone is sick is not an excuse for them to be mean and nasty to those who love them. Jill's brother needs to appreciate what a great family he has instead of making everyone around him miserable. Sara > Just because someone is sick is not an excuse for them to be mean > and nasty to those who love them. Jill's brother needs to > appreciate what a great family he has instead of making everyone > around him miserable. I get the impression poor Jill is the only halfway normal person in her entire family! I think she should take the same advice that the nearest and dearest of alcoholics are given by the various AA support groups. There comes a time when one must accept that the other person's problems are THEIRS, not YOURS, and sometimes the kindest thing is to let them come to terms with it themselves, and get on with your own life, rather than letting them ruin that, too. (I realize that's much easier said than done, but it's often the only solution - not as heartless as it sounds, when it becomes a matter of self-preservation.) > Sara >> Just because someone is sick is not an excuse for them to be mean >> and nasty to those who love them. Jill's brother needs to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I get the impression poor Jill is the only halfway normal > person in her entire family! LOL Thanks for the compliment... I think? > I think she should take the > same advice that the nearest and dearest of alcoholics are [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the only solution - not as heartless as it sounds, when it > becomes a matter of self-preservation.) Let's put it this way. I expected my oldest brother to the be pain in the a.s, not Scott. Paul has a problem with not being able to shut up. He should probably be on some sort of medication. But yesterday he was surprisingly quiet. Usually if we watch a movie he's giving a play by play. Yesterday he just sat down and watched the DVD we'd put on (Road to Perdition, Tom Hanks, good film). And his girlfriend Audrey (this is the first time I've ever spent any length of time with her) is a very nice lady. She certainly didn't deserve to be bitched at. So what if she didn't eat the shrimp cocktail? So what if she doesn't like summer sausage or pepper-jack cheese? Scott was all over her, "You eat mushroom soup but you won't eat mushrooms?" Jesus, leave her alone! He had to "announce" he'd made green beans sans sauteed mushrooms just for her. Hello? Was it really necessary to do that? I don't know what's going on with Scott but his illness has nothing to do with it. He's always like this. He used it as an excuse to bring us all together, then ruined the day by telling everyone how to live their lives, what to think, what to do, etc. I could not WAIT to get out of there. I almost left before dinner. Good breeding kept me there through 2 more hours of torment. Then he tried to tell me I couldn't leave. Excuse me?! >>> Just because someone is sick is not an excuse for them to be mean >>> and nasty to those who love them. Jill's brother needs to [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > hours > of torment. Then he tried to tell me I couldn't leave. Excuse me?! I'm sorry to say this, but your brother sounds like a real jerk. I hope you'll be able to figure out a way to see the rest of your family without him. You're right - he certainly doesn't have any right to give you orders. It sounds as though Audrey may be good for Paul. Joy > I'm sorry to say this, but your brother sounds like a real jerk. He does, but I don't know why nobody responded to my *very reasonable* suggestion that Jill find a compromise. That is, if she wants to. Perhaps she doesn't, which also sounds quite reasonable to me. But I think that if she felt like she wanted to give him some support while he recovers from the cancer, she is still entitled to set some limits. Like, I'll support you if you treat me decently, and that means no this and no that. It really surprises me that people would prefer to argue about whether she should either suck it up and put up with that treatment, because it would be heartless to do otherwise, or else tell him to kiss off, because why should she be a doormat? Those are opposite extremes! I am suggesting that she offer to be supportive WHILE REFUSING TO BE A DOORMAT, by setting some boundaries. And if he won't respect those boundaries, then I think Jill has every right to say that she can't spend time with him. He's a grown man. He might be sick, but that doesn't mean he's excused from being able to understand and respect a simple request. In line with my general feeling that I am useless and invisible in the entire world, I'm feeling that way here as well... Joyce > > I'm sorry to say this, but your brother sounds like a real jerk. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Joyce This is similar to what I suggested, although I may not have expressed it as well. One thing that concerns me about all this is that these messages have completely stripped away all privacy from the people being discussed. Jill posts under her own name, so it would be very easy for someone to recognize her brothers and father from her posts. I don't know if they object, but I think most people would. In fact, I remember some of Jill's own posts from awhile back where she was concerned about someone locating her residence. This much information makes something like that very easy (and would make it even easier for someone who knows her family to know who she is describing). MaryL > One thing that concerns me about all this is that these messages have > completely stripped away all privacy from the people being discussed. Jill [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > This much information makes something like that very easy (and would make it > even easier for someone who knows her family to know who she is describing). Do you really think that anyone who posts here is under the illusion that what they say is somehow "secret"? Once you begin posting on the internet, "privacy" is a myth - anyone who wants to can find out anything they like about any one of us. Fortunately, most people don't care enough to lay out hard cash to satisfy idle curiosity (that kind of in-depth nosiness costs money). And face it, however interesting we may find our own lives, they aren't likely to hold many secrets of any monetary value to an outsider! >> One thing that concerns me about all this is that these messages have >> completely stripped away all privacy from the people being >> discussed. Jill posts under her own name, so it would be very easy >> for someone to recognize her brothers and father from her posts. So what? We've got nothing to hide. My father makes a *point* of telling everyone he's Colonel Max McQuown, USMC Ret. Let him sing. I also have nothing to hide. Someone wants to look me up, they can find me. >> information makes something like that very easy (and would make it >> even easier for someone who knows her family to know who she is >> describing). Sorry but the people who gave me problems already knew where I lived. > Do you really think that anyone who posts here is under the > illusion that what they say is somehow "secret"? Nope. I was published in the Wall Street Journal back in 2004... sorry, can't be secret after that. Heh. I'm not trying to be secret. I don't have any big story to expose. I'm not Britney Spears or Paris Hilton. Just a cat lover. > Nope. I was published in the Wall Street Journal back in 2004... > sorry, can't be secret after that. Heh. I'm not trying to be > secret. I don't have any big story to expose. I'm not Britney > Spears or Paris Hilton. Just a cat lover. I think being a cat lover makes you better than them any day. It's a pity you don't have some of their money.  SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk >>Nope. I was published in the Wall Street Journal back in 2004... >>sorry, can't be secret after that. Heh. I'm not trying to be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I think being a cat lover makes you better than them any day. It's a pity > you don't have some of their money. Only if it came without their problems! >> One thing that concerns me about all this is that these messages have >> completely stripped away all privacy from the people being discussed. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > own lives, they aren't likely to hold many secrets of any monetary value > to an outsider! The point is, we are discussing *someone else* -- not just the OP -- and the type of things that have been said could be highly embarrassing if someone who knows the family comes across these remarks. In other words, it's like dredging all sorts of gossip out and exposing it to untold numbers of people who otherwise would not be hearing all of this. Of course, no one would pay "hard cash" to look up this information. But don't you think that anyone who knows the family will immediately know who is being discussed? And can't you imagine how fast that information could then be passed around the rumor mills? MaryL > The point is, we are discussing *someone else* -- not just the OP -- and the > type of things that have been said could be highly embarrassing if someone [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > can't you imagine how fast that information could then be passed around the > rumor mills? But we haven't given out any information about her family that she herself did not offer first. I wouldn't have any such information to give, and even if I did, I wouldn't post it unless they brought it up first (and then it wouldn't be confidential anymore). Sure, several of us have given our opinions, but so what? What does that say about Jill or her family? Nothing - it just says what *we* think. Joyce > > The point is, we are discussing *someone else* -- not just the OP -- and > > the [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Joyce Actually, I meant that Jill -- and anyone else who posts under their real name -- should probably give some thought to the privacy of their family and friends before posting information about *them* that might be embarrassing. If I want to post something about myself that is unflattering, that is my right. But if I want to post something about others -- particularly those who are not participating in the discussion -- I should be more discreet because this is not only an "open" forum, it is a "world-wide" forum. A newsgroup like this can almost make a public figure of someone through no actions of their own. MaryL >>> The point is, we are discussing *someone else* -- not just the OP >>> -- and the [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > MaryL Mary, I don't care. I haven't posted anything that isn't the truth. If they can't handle the truth, screw them. >>>The point is, we are discussing *someone else* -- not just the OP -- and >>>the [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > newsgroup like this can almost make a public figure of someone through no > actions of their own. I think you are laboring under the delusion that people who don't know you (possibly even many who do know you) would CARE! I know it takes a bit of getting used to, but most people are far too involved in their own lives to spend much time worrying about other people's. We may find ourselves endlessly fascinating, but how many other people, esentially strangers, are likely to feel the same? >>>>The point is, we are discussing *someone else* -- not just the OP -- and >>>>the [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > endlessly fascinating, but how many other people, esentially strangers, > are likely to feel the same? No, I'm not operating under any such delusion. I have now said several times that family or friends could see this information and pass it on. There is also some danger from strangers from posting personal information, but in this case I could foresee a "friend" passing the word to someone that they had seen messages posted here. I live in a small town, and I can guarantee that rumors are passed around here faster than the speed of light -- so if they saw anything on the Internet about someone they knew, it would take no time at all before *everyone* would know it. MaryL > No, I'm not operating under any such delusion. I have now said several > times that family or friends could see this information and pass it on. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > light -- so if they saw anything on the Internet about someone they knew, it > would take no time at all before *everyone* would know it. And how many of "everyone" would actually CARE? (SFAIK, anyone's life in a small town is an open book to everyone who lives there - one reason I've always chosen the big city.) >>> The point is, we are discussing *someone else* -- not just the OP >>> -- and the [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > MaryL Thing is, after I'd simmered down I emailed Scott to tell him how his behavior made everyone feel (after discussing it with the rest of the family). And he conceded my points. I guess he doesn't realize he's *always* trying to make the rest of us feel somehow inferior. This isn't something that manifested itself after his cancer was diagnosed. We've all put up with it without saying anything to him... until now. Jill >>>> The point is, we are discussing *someone else* -- not just the OP >>>> -- and the [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Jill At least something good came out of this ;-) > Thing is, after I'd simmered down I emailed Scott to tell him how his > behavior made everyone feel (after discussing it with the rest of the > family). And he conceded my points. I guess he doesn't realize he's > *always* trying to make the rest of us feel somehow inferior. This > isn't something that manifested itself after his cancer was diagnosed. > We've all put up with it without saying anything to him... until now. You might like to look at Irvin Yalom's book "Love's Executioner" - it has a remarkable story of someone being persuaded to become a human being when near death from cancer, after a lifetime as a misogynist arsehole. No telling if it might apply to your brother, but you can only hope. ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ============== Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760 <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975 stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557 Jill wrote: > > Thing is, after I'd simmered down I emailed Scott to tell him how his > > behavior made everyone feel (after discussing it with the rest of the > > family). And he conceded my points. I guess he doesn't realize he's > > *always* trying to make the rest of us feel somehow inferior. This > > isn't something that manifested itself after his cancer was diagnosed. > > We've all put up with it without saying anything to him... until now. (Piggybacking here - I did not see Jill's post, only this reply. As usual, my news server seems to be getting posts all out of order.) Jill, I'm so glad that you told Scott how his behavior has been affecting you (and the rest of the family). He deserves to be supported during his illness, but if he keeps behaving like that, he'll just make it hard, if not impossible, for family members to be there for him. Nobody wants to be harangued and made to feel inferior! I'm glad he was willing to listen to your complaints - and I hope it means he will be more concious of his behavior in the future. Good for you. Joyce I guess he doesn't realize he's > *always* trying to make the rest of us feel somehow inferior. My youngest brother does this a bit without thinking, he doesn't mean it and he knows if I tell him "Keep it up and I can tell some stories after all you are my baby brother" then what I am really saying is "Stop trying to prove you are better than anyone else" He says it comes from working on stock exchanges where everyone is hyper competitive I tell him that's fine at work and what makes him a success in his career but he can leave his ego at the office door! Far more annoying is a two friends of mine who if we are talking tend to ignore the fact that I am trying to take part as if my contribution is worth nothing. This rebounded on them recently when they did something that went wrong and asked me why I hadn't warned them and I replied "I tried but as usual you weren't listening to me" They're both regretting it now Lesley Slave of the Fabulous Furballs > > The point is, we are discussing *someone else* -- not just the OP > -- and the > type of things that have been said could be highly [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Joyce Hey, it's not like I'm Britney Spears or Paris Hilton. No one really cares about what I say about my family. It's not going to make (inter)national TV. Talk shows and the paparazi aren't going to come after me for commentary. It's just another day in the life. >>> One thing that concerns me about all this is that these messages have >>> completely stripped away all privacy from the people being discussed. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > MaryL What rumor mills? Do you have any idea how many people there are in this world? Anyone who is all that interested can find out darn near anything they want to know about darn near anyone. If someone isn't named John Smith and doesn't live in a Greater Metropolitan area, of course it is going to be easier to identify them. People with unusual names or any sort of public profile learn to live with that. Way back before the internet I was taught never to put anything into words, particularly into writing that I'd have a problem with "everyone" knowing. Still true. But with pretty much everything it isn't so much "who knows" as it is "who cares?" We have windows in our homes so we can see out. Yes that means someone else might be able to see in. We have windows anyway. And we have conversations with people. A life spent in hiding can get pretty lonely. Jo > What rumor mills? Do you have any idea how many people there are in this > world? [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > And we have conversations with people. A life spent in hiding can get > pretty lonely. Tell me about it! I've been living in my new home in a senior "independent living" facility for about a month, and am finally beginning to feel like myself again. I had lived for a year in a huge apartment complex where I didn't know a soul, could have died and no one would have noticed until I was late paying my rent. (Unfortunately, none of the social activities offered when I rented the place were written into the lease, so disappeared with the previous ownership, a month after I moved in.) I KNOW the symptoms of clinical depression, but thought that in my case that "tired all the time", "just too much trouble" lack of energy was simply old age creeping up on me. Not so - it's astonishing how much better I feel, physically and mentally, just having people to talk with at meal time, and various social activities available! (True, many of them don't appeal to me, but they are THERE if I WANT to participate.) >>>One thing that concerns me about all this is that these messages have >>>completely stripped away all privacy from the people being discussed. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > type of things that have been said could be highly embarrassing if someone > who knows the family comes across these remarks. So what, if they're true? (Might even make them think twice about their dominating behaviour - although if they are as described, that's hardly likely, IMO.) > In other words, it's like > dredging all sorts of gossip out and exposing it to untold numbers of people > who otherwise would not be hearing all of this. And how much do any of us care? (Aside from feeling sympathy for Jill?) > Of course, no one would pay > "hard cash" to look up this information. But don't you think that anyone > who knows the family will immediately know who is being discussed? And > can't you imagine how fast that information could then be passed around the > rumor mills? Presumably, "anyone who knows the family" already KNOWS the facts - whether their view of them agrees with Jill's or not, she's hardly telling them anything new! (And those of us who DON'T know them are unlikely to pass the information on in any recognizeable form, nor to anyone who matters.) A lot of us use this newsgroup to "vent" to people whom we look upon as friends - IMO it can serve as a useful safety vent when real life gets a bit too much for us. (Sort of a surrogate "therapy" group.) >>>> One thing that concerns me about all this is that these messages >>>> have completely stripped away all privacy from the people being >>>> discussed. Jill posts under her own name, so it would be very easy >>>> for someone to recognize her brothers and father from her posts. >>>> I don't know if they object, but I think most people would. I think most people understand their lives are an open book. Have been since the 1980's. >>>> fact, I remember some of Jill's own posts from awhile back where >>>> she was concerned about someone locating her residence. That was a maintenance man who lived in the complex. Oh, and a cab driver who brought me home from the airport. They already knew where I lived. >>>> information makes something like that very easy (and would make it >>>> even easier for someone who knows her family to know who she is [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > And how much do any of us care? (Aside from feeling > sympathy for Jill?) I'm not looking for symphathy. God, I'm sorry I posted this. I'm sorry I went over there at all. Persia is such a sweet cat, I wish I'd stayed at home with her. She's such a nice cat. >>> I'm sorry to say this, but your brother sounds like a real jerk. >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > knows her family to know who she is describing). > MaryL Actually in the past jill has given enough information that I've been able to see her house on Google Earth. Personally I don't think it's much of a problem, if someone was detrmined to track me down, or anyone else, it's really not that difficult. SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk >>>> I'm sorry to say this, but your brother sounds like a real jerk. >>> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > problem, if someone was detrmined to track me down, or anyone else, it's > really not that difficult. I'll try one more time and then won't belabor the subject any more. My concern is not for Jill's privacy because she has every right to post under her own name and give us any of her *own* information that she cares to share. The same goes for anyone else who posts on Usenet. Moreover, I am fully aware that anyone who is really interested can probably track down almost anyone -- all sorts of information is readily available that makes that possible. However, I *do* think all of us should avoid posting information about *other* people that can lead to their embarassment or ridicule. What we do to or for ourselves is our own business; what we do to others is not. In this case, first names of family members were used. This information would be of absolutely no interest to people scouring the web for data to harvest, but it could be humiliating if other family members or friends were to learn that everything is being exposed to public view this way. My message is also intended more for everyone to think about if they post under their own names or give out personal information about others. Jill has made it clear that she doesn't care, but there may be others who simply didn't think about this. MaryL >>>>>I'm sorry to say this, but your brother sounds like a real jerk. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > Jill has made it clear that she doesn't care, but there may be others who > simply didn't think about this. Not "didn't think about it", IMO - most of us simply don't CARE! (No one forces you to post anything that makes you uncomfortable, let the rest of us make those decisions for ourselves, too.) There are far too many people in this world for anyone to bother "digging the dirt" on any of the various relatives about whom some of us have shared opinions here. We're only "ordinary" people, and so are our relatives - even the scum-bags among them. >>>> I'm sorry to say this, but your brother sounds like a real jerk. >>> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > much of a problem, if someone was detrmined to track me down, or > anyone else, it's really not that difficult. I don't recall expressing a problem with someone locating my residence. I did have a cab driver who drove me from the airport who showed up 6 months later asking me for a date. I seem to attract strange people LOL But I don't hide myself from anyone. > >> <bastXXXe...@sonic.net> wrote in message > >>news:47478117$0$14142$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net... [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > later asking me for a date. I seem to attract strange people LOL But I > don't hide myself from anyone.- Hide quoted text - I don't think that's what Mary means. Of course it is your right to publish any personal info. about yourself that you want to. It's the personal info. about my family/friends I try to very discreet about online. I just feel like that would be *their* decision whether to publish their info. on a worldwide forum. This group is so intimate, it's easy to forget there are people reading we don't know--maybe hundreds! Or maybe people they know! For instance, anyone could get the home address and personal home phone number of your LLL, your brother, your parents from info. you have posted. KInd of creepy when you think about it, no? Sherry >>>> <bastXXXe...@sonic.net> wrote in message >>>> news:47478117$0$14142$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net... [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > have > posted. KInd of creepy when you think about it, no? Actually, no. I'm not paranoid. I do attract strange people but heh, anyone can figure out where I live. Doesn't bother me as long as they don't have guns. >> I don't think that's what Mary means. Of course it is your right to >> publish [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > don't > have guns. That's not the point. We realize it doesn't bother you -- but is it possible that it might bother *other* people that you have described. You have taken that choice away from them by publishing personal information. This is intrusive and a very real invasion of privacy. MaryL >>>I don't think that's what Mary means. Of course it is your right to >>>publish [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > have taken that choice away from them by publishing personal information. > This is intrusive and a very real invasion of privacy. Oh, for God's SAKE!!!!! That's carrying self-righteousness to insane lengths! Can you honestly say you have NEVER expressed a negative opinion about any friend or relative to a third pary (even if it wasn't on the internet)? Are you really so naive you believe that could considered an "invasion of privacy" in any legally actionable sense? Grow up and get a life! > MaryL >>>>I don't think that's what Mary means. Of course it is your right to >>>>publish [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >> MaryL Who said it was legally actionable? I certainly didn't. I do consider it unfortunate to go on at great length about a specific person as was done here (and also on other groups, such as rec.food.cooking) because that can be very harmful. I also consider it to be invasion of privacy in an ethical sense. I don't claim that I never expressed a negative opinion, but I *did* express my opinion here that it would be better not to use information that can be easily linked to another person. It simply isn't necessary to deliberately hurt someone else in a public forum. You apparently want to infer something stronger. MaryL > Who said it was legally actionable? I certainly didn't. I do consider it > unfortunate to go on at great length about a specific person as was done [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > deliberately hurt someone else in a public forum. You apparently want to > infer something stronger. Every once in a while I clean out my message filters to eliminate all the people who no longer post. Now I remember why I plonked you the first time! (ReP-L-O-N-K!) On Nov 25, 10:42 am, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <evgm...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > Who said it was legally actionable? I certainly didn't. I do consider it > > unfortunate to go on at great length about a specific person as was done [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > eliminate all the people who no longer post. Now I remember > why I plonked you the first time! (ReP-L-O-N-K!) The crux of Mary's message here is, "It simply isn't necessary to deliberately hurt someone else in a public forum." You plonked her because of THAT? Sherry > On Nov 25, 10:42 am, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" > <evgm...@earthlink.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > deliberately hurt someone else in a public forum." > You plonked her because of THAT? No, I plonked her because she has the habit of trying to justify ad nauseum everything she posts that does not receive unanimous agreement. (She seems to be another like my mother who cannot agree to disagree, because HER way is the "right" way, so she won't stop arguing as long as anyone expresses a different viewpoint - with folks like that, it's easier to just plonk them and let them argue solely with themselves.) >> The crux of Mary's message here is, "It simply isn't necessary >> to deliberately hurt someone else in a public forum." [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > easier to just plonk them and let them argue solely with > themselves.) NO NO NO! MaryL is one of the most *unplonkable* people on this and other groups. I only came out of lurkville to tell you that she isn't arguing, she truly wants her point to be understood because you and others are clearly misunderstanding what she's trying to say. I understood it, and I know others did, but you're among those who are too self-centered to "GET IT". PLONK me if you want to, I don't care. I DO care about MaryL though. SignatureCheryl >>>The crux of Mary's message here is, "It simply isn't necessary >>>to deliberately hurt someone else in a public forum." [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > because you and others are clearly misunderstanding what she's > trying to say. WRONG!!!! We "understand" okay, we just don't agree - a concept apparently so foreign to her that she must keep trying to convince us of the rightness of her point of view. (I dunno about the rest of you, but since SHE chooses not to understand other viewpoints, plonking is much easier on the blood pressure than continuing the argument.) >> The crux of Mary's message here is, "It simply isn't necessary to >> deliberately hurt someone else in a public forum." [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > anyone expresses a different viewpoint - with folks like that, it's > easier to just plonk them and let them argue solely with themselves.) Interesting book that I've read had something to think about -- people are mirrors. The things that bother us most about others are things that we have in ourselves. For example, those who normally arrive late cannot tolerate someone else being not being on time. By the way, I get what Mary L was saying about putting your friend or family's personal business on the internet, and I agree. Rhonda >>> The crux of Mary's message here is, "It simply isn't necessary to >>> deliberately hurt someone else in a public forum." [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > we have in ourselves. For example, those who normally arrive late cannot > tolerate someone else being not being on time. I haven't read that book but I was thinking along the same lines as you. > By the way, I get what Mary L was saying about putting your friend or > family's personal business on the internet, and I agree. Me too. I hesitated a long time before I even posted a purr request for my BIL when he was diagnosed with cancer, but I didn't mention his name. I suppose anyone could find out who my sisters are married to, but it's just common decency not to discuss someone else's personal business online without their consent. Isn't that basic netiquette? SignatureMarina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. > >>> The crux of Mary's message here is, "It simply isn't necessary to > >>> deliberately hurt someone else in a public forum." [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Marina, it is basic human decency. It is consideration for other people's feelings, and their privacy. I am so glad to hear others come in who feel the same way I do, because honestly I was starting to wonder. To make an analogy to those who think it's perfectly fine to discuss *other* people's personal business, their full names and other information on the internet. How would they like it if someone took out an ad in the newspaper and published that information? It's pretty much the same. Sherry > > >>> The crux of Mary's message here is, "It simply isn't necessary to > > >>> deliberately hurt someone else in a public forum." [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > - Show quoted text - hopitus is in a great mood tonight and just wants to throw this in to make you all p.o.'d again; because I Google'd the name of a long-dead friend, it popped up in - I was dumbfounded - a website for adoptees I had never heard of, having zilch interest in adoptions in general. By registering with this website - there are thousands of adoptees and/or their relatives all trying to find the slightest clue as to their 'birth'parents, etc.- I was after only 5 months able to actually talk to the adoptee - a 50-year-old man - on the other side of the country and inform him of not only what I knew and remembered of his mother but also let him know he has 2 half- brothers in NYC area. He is well off financially and has the means to hire private investigators with the 411 I provided him with. This doesn't have nada to do with either usenet or the ng here but just want to throw this 800# gorilla into your discussion, Long live Google. I love it when Evelyn talks French..... > I love it when Evelyn talks French..... ROFL. You sound like Gomez. :) I didn't notice Evelyn saying anything in French, though. Joyce On Nov 26, 12:34 am, bastXXXe...@sonic.net wrote: > > I love it when Evelyn talks French..... > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Joyce Hee hee.....she doesn't do it often, just French expressions. I forgot that guy's name, thanks, Joyce. I know lots of Spanish expressions but they are for the most part unrepeatable on a family ng. French - although also a 'romance' language, is IMHO much more romantic, LOL. > > I love it when Evelyn talks French..... > > ROFL. You sound like Gomez. :) > > I didn't notice Evelyn saying anything in French, though. I think I threw in a "cacun a son gout" somewhere along the line, here. (Sorry I omitted the diacritical markings, but I've discovered the symbol codes only print out correctly for people using the same software.) I have been told that from the time you post your first e mail message, any kind of message, that if you have the "know how" or "financial means" you can be found. Once you put your social security on a credit card form or anything that goes into the public domain, the same applies if you want to dig far enough. We just have to be respectful of others. I googled my name and came up with a ceo of Sara Lee!!!! >> > >>> The crux of Mary's message here is, "It simply isn't necessary to >> > >>> deliberately hurt someone else in a public forum." [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > gorilla into your discussion, Long live Google. > I love it when Evelyn talks French..... > Interesting book that I've read had something to think about -- people > are mirrors. The things that bother us most about others are things that > we have in ourselves. For example, those who normally arrive late cannot > tolerate someone else being not being on time. LOL, I know this isn't the point of your post, but I'd just like to weigh in to say that, as a person who is chronically late, I am rarely bothered by others who are late. In fact I find it kind of a relief - one of my people!! :) However, I am very annoyed by people who are early. (Obviously, not people who arrive early at an external meeting point, since that doesn't affect me. I mean people who show up at my house early for a party, or to go out, etc.) When I'm getting ready for company, I've usually planned my time down to the minute, and this includes about 10-20 minutes of relaxation time before people how up. If someone's early, I still have to dry my hair and get dressed, but I'd feel too rude saying, "I was also planning to read email for 10 minutes before folks arrive, so could you make yourself comfortable on my couch?" I get very cranky when I don't get that few minutes of quiet time before a social activity. Seriously, I think being early (to someone's house) is as rude as being late. I hate answering the door dripping from a shower, with a towel wrapped around my naked body, because somebody can't tell time! Joyce On Nov 26, 1:31 am, bastXXXe...@sonic.net wrote: > > Interesting book that I've read had something to think about -- people > > are mirrors. The things that bother us most about others are things that [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Joyce I know what you mean. It doesn't bother me if it's family, because they'll come early to help. They never knock anyway, they just yell "yoo hoo" and come on in. A few close friends do the "yoo hoo" thing, but most of them ring the doorbell and wait on the porch. :-) I like things to be absolutely ready when regular guests arrive. BTW, "late people" and "early people"....I have 2 kids. One has never been late to anything in her life, and the other has never been on time. I always thought that was a curious thing. >>> The crux of Mary's message here is, "It simply isn't necessary to >>> deliberately hurt someone else in a public forum." [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > By the way, I get what Mary L was saying about putting your friend or > family's personal business on the internet, and I agree. That's your privilege (and hers). Not everyone agrees with it, and that's OUR privilege, n'est-ce pas? > I don't think that's what Mary means. Of course it is your right to > publish [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > have > posted. KInd of creepy when you think about it, no? The world is a "creepy" place - possibly more so now than when I was young. But if you're going to live in constant fear of what "might" happen, life ceases to be worth living! ALL life is risk-taking - you could spend it holed up in your apartment, never going outside your secure little nest - only to have the roof cave in on you! >>>>I'm sorry to say this, but your brother sounds like a real jerk. >>> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > problem, if someone was detrmined to track me down, or anyone else, it's > really not that difficult. Exactly! We tend to forget that evn though we find our own lives totally fascinating, most of us are pretty "ordinary" folk. Why would anyone want to waste the time tracking us down (except possibly out of idle curiosity)? On Nov 24, 2:08 pm, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <evgm...@earthlink.net> wrote: > >><bastXXXe...@sonic.net> wrote in message > >>news:47478117$0$14142$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net... [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > folk. Why would anyone want to waste the time tracking us > down (except possibly out of idle curiosity)?- Hide quoted text - Evelyn, I think you're being a little naive. Usenet is NOT a cozy little online Mickey Mouse club. Sure, it's great to share things with persons of like interest; and I DO consider many people here "friends'. But the things that "friends" discuss, are folks I've learned I can can trust over the years, go strictly via EMAIL. People can be spiteful, and don't underestimate the flack that can fall out from usenet flame wars. I've been in some ugly ones, and I've seen Jill in some, too (not on this group). I would be afraid the wrong person would decide to cause trouble for Jill, for no other reason except pure spite, and decide to mail posts to her family members, friends, or their wives. Or pick the phone up and call them. You may think it's no big deal to spew out *other* people's personal information (full names, city of residence) but I certainly do. Sherry > Evelyn, I think you're being a little naive. Usenet is NOT a cozy > little online Mickey Mouse club. When did I say it WAS???? Au contraire, I am fully aware that anyone can use the internet to learn anything they like about ANYONE. (Especially with our scumbag president's view on "executive privilege", even our government can spy on whomever it chooses with no regard for the laws that used to protect us.) > I would be afraid the wrong > person [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > wives. > Or pick the phone up and call them. I doubt whether Jill would have posted her opinions if she were worried about them getting back to the principals - not because she doesn't think it possible, but because she doesn't care if they do. I suspect that, like me at my most outspoken, she just doesn't give a damn! ("Publish and be damned".) > You may think it's no big deal to spew out *other* people's personal > information (full names, city of residence) but I certainly do. Whether it's a "big" deal or a small one, in today's world I don't think it matters! As Adrian and I keep saying, ANYONE can find out ANYTHING about anyone else, if they care enough to take the trouble. Most people don't bother because we aren't important enough for unknown individuals to consider us worth the effort. > > I'm sorry to say this, but your brother sounds like a real jerk. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Joyce I can't speak for others who haven't responded to your suggestion. My point is, I sympathize with Jill and will support whatever decision she makes, but it is her decision to make. I am very wary about giving advice, even if it is asked for. Joy > > I'm sorry to say this, but your brother sounds like a real jerk. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > from the cancer, she is still entitled to set some limits. Like, I'll > support you if you treat me decently, and that means no this and no that. <snip> > In line with my general feeling that I am useless and invisible in the > entire world, I'm feeling that way here as well... Most likely no-one replied becease no doubt no-one had any grounds to disagree with you. I don't, I agree entirely. (Besides which, I didn't know who you were because you've changed your nym - I assume you are the Joyce that used to post under jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt ) Yowie >> In line with my general feeling that I am useless and invisible in the >> entire world, I'm feeling that way here as well... > Most likely no-one replied becease no doubt no-one had any grounds to > disagree with you. I don't, I agree entirely. > (Besides which, I didn't know who you were because you've changed your > nym - I assume you are the Joyce that used to post under jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt ) Yep, that's me. I did send out an "annoucement" of sorts when I started using the new user name, but I know that posts make their way around the globe in a rather erratic way, so you probably didn't see it. It is a sad commentary that we only respond to people we disagree with. When I say something, I really like it when someone says, "Yeah!! What she said!" - and when I don't get much of that I start to wonder if people are just being silently uninterested or too polite to say I'm full of it or something. I suppose some people might say that it's a sad commentary on me, that I need that verbal "handshake", but I'm not sure it's a symptom of an emotional problem - I think it's just a kind of conversation convention that I'm used to and I like. I do have some friends who do this as a matter of course. We give each other a lot of feedback and encouragement during ordinary conversation. I mean stuff like saying, "Exactly! Yes, that's that's what I meant," or "You're right, I agree with you," or "Well said," that kind of thing. I guess it's more common to do that in live conversation than online, and I miss it when it's not there. Joyce >>> In line with my general feeling that I am useless and invisible in >>> the entire world, I'm feeling that way here as well... [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Joyce I think with so many posts it's difficult for most of us to read all we want, if we all replied to every post we would like too there would be even more to read and we'd be at the computer 24/7 I try and read as many posts as I can and often answer in my head, I'm sure that's what most people do. SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk On Nov 23, 8:40 pm, bastXXXe...@sonic.net wrote: . > It really surprises me that people would prefer to argue about whether > she should either suck it up and put up with that treatment, because it [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Joyce I read your idea and generally agree with it, but some people need killin'. Not that I'm advocating murder here, but sometimes, especially with control freaks, there is no compromise and this Scott guy seems like a major control freak. I've made many compromises, mainly with Rob's family, as there is no way to compromise with mine, my family are a bunch of insane control freaks and Rob's family is just nuts. Pam S. > Sorry you had a crappy holiday. But, Jill--I know I've harped at you > before about this--but you've > got to make allowances for Scott. He's looked at lung cancer square in > the face. Do you know that I would disagree. I don't care what you've gone through, you have no right to make my life miserable. Period. SignatureVictor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com > > Sorry you had a crappy holiday. But, Jill--I know I've harped at you > > before about this--but you've [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > Victor M. Martine Even if it were your mother? I'm not saying the person in question has the right to make your life miserable. I'm just saying a few hours *out of your whole life* isn't too much of a sacrifice for someone you love. Sherry >>> Sorry you had a crappy holiday. But, Jill--I know I've harped at you >>> before about this--but you've [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > whole life* > isn't too much of a sacrifice for someone you love. I was there for almost 6 hours. (And he doesn't pay for my gas to drive over there and back.) All he did was bitch and lecture everyone the entire time. You don't invite people over and then criticize them and tell them how they should live their lives... all day long. Trust me, I won't be going over there for Christmas. > > > Sorry you had a crappy holiday. But, Jill--I know I've harped at you > > > before about this--but you've [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Sherry We all just want to live peaceful productive stress free live as much as possible. If people don't want to grant us that simple desire we should be under no obligations to anybody who cannot or will not grant us that simple wish. I have family members that are always on my case when I am around them, or when they aren't on my case I know how they think about me. I just as well be their total enemy yet I have done nothing to wrong them. They act like their job is to stress and humiliate me and they claim their bizarre Republican values are to attack me as a liberal. I don't expect them to like me or what they perceive my politics to be (which is both waay off) but if they will not show me some common respect and courtesy that I have always given to them by default then it's probably more stress to associate with them than it's worth. On Nov 23, 12:41 am, llanal...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > Sorry you had a crappy holiday. But, Jill--I know I've harped at you > > > > before about this--but you've [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > with them > than it's worth.- Hide quoted text - I can see your point; and I agree. However, what I was referring to specifically are family members/friends who may be disagreeable or cross because they're dealing with tremendous stress themselves, or more specifically, an illness. IMO, the real test of friendship, or love, is being willing to sacrifice our time, even when it is not particularly pleasant for us, for the sake of the other person. I have been extremely ill a lot in my life. I've lashed out at the people I love most, out of sheer frustration and depression, so maybe I have a different view than others do. Sometimes when family members are the most unloveable are the times they need love the most. Sherry > Sometimes when family members are the most unloveable are the times > they > need love the most. > Sherry So true. The Thanksgiving dinner part of yesterday wasn't going well. Older daughter and her father have been arguing more than usual lately, and that is saying a lot. Nonsense mostly. The kind of arguments only people who actually love each other can take to heart. Oldest grandson couldn't make it. Youngest grandson was at his Dad's house. Middle grandson has been grating on my last nerve lately, along with his delinquent friends. Younger daughter was as I mentioned earlier "otherwise occupied" Late in the afternoon, dinner had been ready a while. Charlie was sulking and no one had shown up. Older daughter stopped by with a boyfriend and made up a plate of food for her father and sat him down at the table to eat. We all had dinner then, delinquent and his friends came by and made nice and had dinner. Daughter and father will be back at each others throats before the weekend in over. He worries about her and can't keep his mouth shut. Yes he has plenty of reason to worry, but she has been an adult for quite a long time. If he does manage to keep quiet she will bring up something to set him off. But for yesterday, she came by and made peace. I do appreciate it. Jo > > Sometimes when family members are the most unloveable are the times > > they [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Jo VERY LONG Some of us have more patience and tolerance than others. I had to snicker at "delinquent and his friends"....I am still at a relative's place - alone now - and will soon be heading back home.....but had to share this (not a complaint but documentary of *our* family/few friends gathering/dinner yesterday evening: This relative had invited 4 pals - all males in mid-30's (!) who are "gamers" and D.&D. participants. When the conversations turned to those topics after dinner - thank the Lord they did not organize a session of anything - I quietly arose, fixed a generous plate of leftovers for my friend across sthe hall from here (she fosters baby kittens and older kittens before adoption age, lives alone and did not cook yesterday) and went over there to visit her and all the cats/kittens. We both went back here where dessert was laid out on buffet table (many choices), selected our faves, and went back to her place, where we drank (well, she drank, I had flavored fizzy water) wine that had "legs" (I learned something, LOL) and discussed in depth her eating disorders and those of friends I've known.....now if you think this sounds lame, have you ever been confined in a not-too-large living room with a group of gamers? No one paid any attention to our comings and goings here and no introductions were made. People deal and that's the bottom line. Those who believe in patience and tolerance have valid points. So do the others. And years ago, I could only observe my sister who went to the Bridge and crossed over from breast cancer become like a needy little girl during her last months on earth even though she was 53. I was in south FL, she was in Bay Area, CA. I had used up all my vacation days from work taking her on a (I did not know then) final visit to middle Tenn. to experience our father's "root" locations there. I did not go to her side at the end but spoke to her frequently on the phone. I do not "do death" (of anyone) well and that is why I was not a nurse....ER workers have a constant parade so to speak of different people to work on..I did my thing on them and then they were gone (to me).but to my dying day I will regret not going across the country to her by borrowing sick time from a nurse pal at work. We deal as we are able. > Even if it were your mother? I'm not saying the person in question has > the right > to make your life miserable. I'm just saying a few hours *out of your > whole life* > isn't too much of a sacrifice for someone you love. And I don't feel that I need to put myself through something like that just because the abusive party feels I need to be there. I'm not a masochist! SignatureVictor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com > > Even if it were your mother? I'm not saying the person in question has > > the right [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > -- > Victor M. Martinez You don't understand what I'm saying, but that's okay; I don't think anyone else does, either, and at this point I don't give a damn. Thanks for the concern. Sherry >> > Even if it were your mother? I'm not saying the person in question has >> > the right [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Sherry I do understand, Sherry, and I agree. I don't expect anyone to be a doormat, but surely we can have a little understanding for a person who has been recently diagnosed with a serious -- and probably fatal disease -- and who has also had to endure the pain of surgery. Furthermore, this seems to be a person who lives alone and would have great difficulty doing some procedures for himself for awhile. People who are ill can suddenly become very demanding (indeed, *unreasonbly* demanding), and it behooves us to make certain concessions, even if those "concessions" would simply consist of saying, "I simply can't do that at this time." A person can walk away, if necessary, but that can be done without making the other person feel useless. My father was a wonderfully warm and caring person. He did everything he could for us all of his life. But when he had to undergo serious surgery, he suddenly turned abrasive and demanding. Fortunately, that lasted for only a short time, but we did understand. Haven't any of you gone through days when you were ill-tempered simply because you didn't "feel good" or possibly had "a touch of the flu"? Magnify that many times over for a person such as what is being discussed here. Incidentally, I had both an aunt (blood relative) and uncle (by marriage) who died of lung cancer. In each case, they died long, slow, agonizing deaths. Fortunately, they had family members who were able to help them through those dreadful days. MaryL On Nov 23, 3:47 pm, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote: > My father was a wonderfully warm and caring person. He did everything he > could for us all of his life. But when he had to undergo serious surgery, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > each case, they died long, slow, agonizing deaths. Fortunately, they had > family members who were able to help them through those dreadful days. I get the impression that Jill's brother is an *ssh*l* by personality, not by disease or defect. Rob is the most wonderful man I know, and I still won't put up with those few days when he gets a wild hair up his hind end. I sent him to his room until he could act like a human a couple of weeks ago. An hour later he came out and apologized to Mike for being hateful. Rob jokes that I sent him to his room until he could act like a human, and he hasn't come out yet. Pam S. who can also be quite snarky, and whose family won't tolerate it from her either. >>>> Even if it were your mother? I'm not saying the person in question >>>> has the right [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > who has been recently diagnosed with a serious -- and probably fatal > disease -- and who has also had to endure the pain of surgery. Thing is, this isn't something that just popped up after his illness. He's always been like this. Always lording it over us as if we are somehow inferior to him. > Furthermore, this seems to be a person who lives alone and would have > great difficulty doing some procedures for himself for awhile. So when I was trying to help out in the kitchen, what was the point of telling me I was in the way? I was given to understand he wanted me to help out with dinner prep. But when I tried my assistance was rejected. > People who are ill can suddenly become very demanding (indeed, > *unreasonbly* demanding), and it behooves us to make certain > concessions, even if those "concessions" would simply consist of > saying, "I simply can't do that at this time." A person can walk > away, if necessary, but that can be done without making the other > person feel useless. Again, this isn't new behavior on his part. His illness has *nothing* to do with it. Jill >>>>> Even if it were your mother? I'm not saying the person in >>>>> question [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > Jill My feeling is that Jill was just venting her frustration at the way Thanksgiving went at her brother's house, and the way he acted with everyone, spoiling what could have been a very nice family get- together.... we've already seen that she's willing to go to great extremes to help him when he needs help, and that she loves him very much and worries about his health and well being. I think everyone totally over-reacted to what - to me anyway - was a simple venting of "geeze, what a miserable day I had. I'm sure glad I'm home!".... and haven't we ALL been there at one time or another with our loved ones? Sara >>>>>> Even if it were your mother? I'm not saying the person in question >>>>>> has the right [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > Sara I agree. I don't think Jill should have to defend herself. Joy >>> Even if it were your mother? I'm not saying the person in question >>> has the right [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > anyone else does, either, > and at this point I don't give a damn. Thanks for the concern. No, apparently you're the one who doesn't understand. Scott's cancer has nothing to do with this. He's always been controlling. We were roommates back in the 1980's. I was pretty much a recluse then. He went out all the time. Did I criticize him for it? No. And he kept asking me, why don't you go out? So I made some friends at work and started going out. All of a sudden he was asking why are you always going out? WTF? I can't do anything right or wrong. I paid the rent. I paid my share of the bills. I did the cooking. Point is, nothing is ever good enough for him. His recent illness is NOT a factor! That's what *you* don't understand, Sherry. His illness isn't part of this. His personality is. He wasn't a very gracious host. He's always felt the need to control things. He's like my father with the Hull Arithmetic book thing, except he doesn't suffer from dementia. (Wouldn't surprise me to find him heading that way.) With him it's about *control*. He used his illness to get me over there, saying we need to get together a couple of times a year because he could have died. Guess what? I could die tomorrow. I'm not inviting people over so I can criticize them all day long before I kick the bucket. He'd said he could use my help in the kitchen. But when I (and anyone) tried to help in the kitchen he said we were in the way, move, get out of the way. All the while bitching about how he had to do everything himself. Oh fer cryin' out loud! Sorry, I can only accomodate/humour someone so far. Won't be going back over there for a long, long time. And he can be on his death bed for all I care. If he's going to bitch at me he can do it from the great beyond. >> And I don't feel that I need to put myself through something >> like that just because the abusive party feels I need to be >> there. I'm not a masochist! > You don't understand what I'm saying, but that's okay; I don't > think anyone else does, either, and at this point I don't give a > damn. Thanks for the concern. There was nothing in any of Jill's posts to indicate that she tried to convey how much his behavior was bothering her. (She might well have tried, I'm not saying she didn't - just saying that I didn't see anything about that in her posts.) Most of us would rather chew glass than actually let another person know that their behavior is bothering us. I don't know why that is - maybe our culture doesn't teach us how to do that constructively? We seem to have only two modes of response: shut up and suck it up, or yell at the person about what a jerk they are. If we don't want to go on the attack, then the only other thing we know how to do is to hold it in and be quietly resentful. But what about a third option - saying nicely, "I'd be glad to stay over, but on one condition only: you don't tell me what's wrong with me, what's wrong with the decisions I've made in my life, and what you think I shou |
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