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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / November 2007Purrs for Tigger, please?
I got a phone call from my brother tonight. The phone call that I've been expecting. "There's a problem with the cat" "What sort of problem?" "We heard a cat scream outside, he came rushing in bleeding from the mouth and now he's hiding, what should I do?" Resisting the urge to say "I told you so" I did the supportive sister bit, told him to get the kitten to the vets immediately as I thought he'd been hit by a car. I gave him the phone number of my vet and told him to let me know what happened. He rang me back an hour later. Tigger had indeed been hit by a car, he has broken his jaw quite badly which will need wiring. I didn't like it when he said the kitten's breathing was a bit funny, I hope he hasn't done his diaphragm in. I listened to the veterinary update and said I hoped he would be OK, and how was Charlotte? He said she had been crying. Then I gave it to him with both barrels. "What did I tell you about letting such a young cat out?? Why didn't you listen to me, why were you so rude to me when I mentioned it??! He's not a toy, you know - where is your sense of responsibility? Etc, etc. To give him his due he took it on the chin and didn't try to interrupt until I had finally finished his almighty earbashing. Then he said, quietly "we did keep him in for as long as the shelter told us to. Thanks for the vet's phone number." That took the wind right out of my sails. A few healing purrs would be appreciated. Thanks. Tweed I am sorry, perhaps now he will want to listen when you do offer advice, Lee > I got a phone call from my brother tonight. The phone call that I've been > expecting. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Tweed PURRS AND PRAYERS IN ROUTE poor little one I hope everything will be ok we have had to many new crossings to the RB this month. >I got a phone call from my brother tonight. The phone call that I've been >expecting. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Tweed > I got a phone call from my brother tonight. The phone call that I've > been expecting. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Tweed Healing purrs on the way. This is one occasion when I wish you'd been wrong. :-( Hopefully Tigger will recover and stay well away from the road in future.  SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk On 21 Oct, 13:49, "Christina Websell" <spamf...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote: > To give him his due he took it on the chin and didn't try to interrupt until > I had finally finished his almighty earbashing. I do hope you gave him both barrels- wait a mo! This is Tweed- you did didn't you? Then he said, quietly "we > did keep him in for as long as the shelter told us to. And I hope someone gives the shelter both barrels as well-he's only a kitten and they told your brother to let him out this young? Purrs for the little one Lesley Slave of thr Fabulous Furballs On Oct 21, 2:49 pm, "Christina Websell" <spamf...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote: > I got a phone call from my brother tonight. The phone call that I've been > expecting. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > A few healing purrs would be appreciated. Thanks. I hoped never to hear that. Purrs and prayers for little Tigger...and your db and sil. PatM Purrs an d prayers both, for Tigger and his family, and the good doctors to do their finest work. Blessed be, Baha >I got a phone call from my brother tonight. The phone call that I've been >expecting. >"There's a problem with the cat" >"What sort of problem?" >"We heard a cat scream outside, he came rushing in bleeding from the mouth >and now he's hiding, what should I do?" > A few healing purrs would be appreciated. Thanks. > > Tweed We're sending purrs for everyone, Tweed. For Tigger to heal quickly, for your brother to figure out how to properly care for the little guy, and for the shelter folks to stop giving dangerous advice to new catslaves. > He rang me back an hour later. Tigger had indeed been hit by a car, he > has broken his jaw quite badly which will need wiring. How awful, poor Tigger!!! Hopefully he'll heal well at such a young age, kittens are supposed to & certainly need to. Here's purring for a speedy recovery. Gordon & the FF >I got a phone call from my brother tonight. The phone call that I've been >expecting. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Tweed Aw, poor little bittie - they're always the ones to pay for our mistakes. Mega healing purrs are on the way to Tigger. Hugs, CatNipped > I got a phone call from my brother tonight. The phone call that I've been > expecting. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Tweed Sending lots of healing purrs for Tigger. Perhaps it would help if you gave your brother a book about raising kitties. Best wishes. MLB > Sending lots of healing purrs for Tigger. Perhaps it would help if you > gave your brother a book about raising kitties. Best wishes. MLB I think that would add insult to injury, tbh. Thanks for the purrs. Tweed >> Sending lots of healing purrs for Tigger. Perhaps it would help if you >> gave your brother a book about raising kitties. Best wishes. MLB > > I think that would add insult to injury, tbh. Thanks for the purrs. > > Tweed I'm pretty sure you already managed both the insult if not the injury. And I do not intend any blame at all in saying that. This is your brother. Have to figure you know each other pretty well by now. Reasonably sure he knows most of your reaction is a soft heart and concern for Tigger as well as your niece. About your niece. It sounds is if your brother is raising a very good future friend for you. Since he is the one that will have to live with her when she is a teenager, you might want to cut him some slack. He's going to need it. Lots of purrs on the way for Tigger. Jo >>> Sending lots of healing purrs for Tigger. Perhaps it would help if you >>> gave your brother a book about raising kitties. Best wishes. MLB [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > now. Reasonably sure he knows most of your reaction is a soft heart and > concern for Tigger as well as your niece. Yes, he does. > About your niece. It sounds is if your brother is raising a very good > future friend for you. Since he is the one that will have to live with > her when she is a teenager, you might want to cut him some slack. He's > going to need it. LOL! I agree with you. > Lots of purrs on the way for Tigger. Thanks. I am not expecting any news for two more days until Tigger gets home (maybe) to give my brother chance to recover, both from the shock of having my guess of what would be inevitable (sp?) for his kitten to actually happen and from his severe earbashing. He will, of course, be offended for a few days. I want to phone the vet to get news to get news of how Tigger is. I know they won't tell me because he is not mine. Tweed I don't agree that a book would help right now. Maybe later on. I imagine the little girl is makeing him feel bad enough. It was wrong but they did ask advice from the shelter. Paryers and purrs for the brother as well as the kitten. >>> Sending lots of healing purrs for Tigger. Perhaps it would help if you >>> gave your brother a book about raising kitties. Best wishes. MLB [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Jo >> [quoted text muted] > > I think that would add insult to injury, tbh. Thanks for the purrs. > > Tweed What is the point of having an opinion if you don't express it? MLB Aww Tweed I know the feeling of yelling and then someone saying something to deflate you. Purrs and prayers for the kitten. What is this about the shelter telling them how long to keep him in. Never heard of that before unless they said they wanted the kitten for an out cat. Poot baby. >I got a phone call from my brother tonight. The phone call that I've been >expecting. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Tweed I didn't yell, I never do. I merely spoke to my brother about my disappointment in very strong terms. It was enough; I felt bad about it when he told me he'd taken the shelter's advice when I had thought he'd deliberately ignored mine. Most cats here in the UK are indoor/outdoor, it's taken as a given, almost, that they need to go out. Those who live in a large city or on a busy road often choose not to have one. It's a difference in US/UK culture. Tweed > Aww Tweed I know the feeling of yelling and then someone saying something > to deflate you. Purrs and prayers for the kitten. What is this about the [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >> >> Tweed > I didn't yell, I never do. I merely spoke to my brother about my > disappointment in very strong terms. It was enough; I felt bad about it > when he told me he'd taken the shelter's advice when I had thought he'd > deliberately ignored mine. I can understand why you thought that, though. When you brought it up the first time, he did simply ignore you. That would have been the time for him to tell you the shelter said it would be OK to let Tigger out at his current age. Maybe it's time to give the shelter both barrels? Joyce > > I didn't yell, I never do. I merely spoke to my brother about my > > disappointment in very strong terms. It was enough; I felt bad about [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Joyce As long as you can find the same person that gave him the advice. Could have been a moron working for them or a newbie. But letting the shelter know that someone gave him the advice that they did is definitely a step in the right process. Ps how is tigger today do we know > Ps how is tigger today do we know My brother said yesterday Tigger will have to stay at the vet's for at least 3 days. I haven't had an update, but I am sure I would have done if he had gone to RB. Let's all hope for the best. Btw, Tigger has lost some teeth as a result. He is only 20 weeks old, are these still baby teeth so he will get his big teeth okay, does anyone know? I've never had a kitten. Puppies would be getting some of their permanent teeth around now. Tweed > > I didn't yell, I never do. I merely spoke to my brother about my > > disappointment in very strong terms. It was enough; I felt bad about [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > for him to tell you the shelter said it would be OK to let Tigger out > at his current age. I chose the wrong time to mention it, probably, when his older brother by 2 years was there but it's often the only time we all get together. I guess he didn't want to seem to take advice from his older sister in front of his brother. It must be a bloke thing. > Maybe it's time to give the shelter both barrels? I will leave that up to Andrew. It's him that has to foot the vet's bill, which will be huge - Sunday and all that - and comfort his sobbing daughter aged 7 who has been longing for a cat since she was 5. Tweed > I will leave that up to Andrew. It's him that has to foot the vet's bill, > which will be huge - Sunday and all that - and comfort his sobbing daughter > aged 7 who has been longing for a cat since she was 5. That's really sad. We all feel terrible to lose a pet, or to have a pet get sick or hurt, but I don't think anyone feels this a keenly as a child. It brings back a lot of sad memories for me, anyway. How is Tigger doing now, do you know? Is he at least out of the woods and on the mend? I just want to know if he's going to make it. Joyce >I didn't yell, I never do. I merely spoke to my brother about my >disappointment in very strong terms. It was enough; I felt bad about it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Tweed I always try to explain that when some newbie starts that dang inside/ outside debate but it always escalates to the BS as we all has seen. >> Aww Tweed I know the feeling of yelling and then someone saying something >> to deflate you. Purrs and prayers for the kitten. What is this about [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >>> >>> Tweed > I got a phone call from my brother tonight. The phone call that I've > been expecting. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Tweed Oh no :( I really hope all aspects of this situation are healed not least Tigger. So sad. > Oh no :( I really hope all aspects of this situation are healed not least > Tigger. So sad. It will only be Tigger that needs healing. There will be no hard feelings about the earbashing after a week or so of sulking, as Andrew knows very well he deserved it. At least I didn't say "don't forget I changed your nappy (diaper) and taught you to read before you went to school" like I once used to if he ignored what I thought was good advice. I am the nearest thing he now has to a mother. Tweed > I got a phone call from my brother tonight. The phone call that I've been > expecting. > "There's a problem with the cat" > "What sort of problem?" > "We heard a cat scream outside, he came rushing in bleeding from the mouth > and now he's hiding, what should I do?" [...] > A few healing purrs would be appreciated. Thanks. Purrs for poor Tigger. Hopefully the wires will keep everything well stabilized so the pain will fade quickly and healing will swiftly follow. I also hope that both Tigger and brother will learn that, where they live at least, kittens belong inside. Maeve >^..^< Signaturehttp://volatiledreams.deep-ice.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/minnow/ >I got a phone call from my brother tonight. The phone call that I've been >expecting. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >Tweed Poor Tigger! I'm glad he wasn't hurt worse than he was! And I agree: kittens should be kept indoors. For that matter, I think indoors is safer for cats all of the time; but then I live in the city, where it's dangerous for cats outdoors Purrs for Tigger to heal ASAP! Oh, this sounds just awful! But I hope that given treatment from TED, Archer will heal everything, as quickly as possible. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Life without cats would be only marginally worth living." -TC, and the unmercifully, relentlessly, sweet calico kitty, Kenzie. How you behave towards cats here below determines your status in Heaven. - Robert Heinlein Life is very difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier. -Buddha > Poor Tigger! I'm glad he wasn't hurt worse than he was! > > And I agree: kittens should be kept indoors. Tigger should certainly have been kept indoors longer than he was. I noticed how stupid he was about roads and cars a month ago. He actually greets cars by getting in front of them of them as they pull up! > For that matter, I think > indoors is safer for cats all of the time; but then I live in the city, > where it's dangerous for cats outdoors Normally it would be safe for Tigger outside had he been a little older and had more sense. There is not much traffic there, maybe 15 cars an hour and the speed limit is 20 mph which probably saved his life. It seemed (from a witness) that Tigger decided to chase cars down the road and was unlucky enough to meet one coming in the other direction quite slowly obeying the 20 limit otherwise he would have been RB for definite. Tweed I wish I could let mine out this is one definite advantage that UK cats have, Lee > > Poor Tigger! I'm glad he wasn't hurt worse than he was! > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Tweed >I wish I could let mine out this is one definite advantage that UK cats > have, Lee They have no more advantage than we do here - there are cars everywhere now-a-days and crazies too. It's just a different culture there when it comes to cats being outside. Hugs, CatNipped >> > Poor Tigger! I'm glad he wasn't hurt worse than he was! >> > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> >> Tweed >> I wish I could let mine out this is one definite advantage that UK >> cats have, Lee [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > CatNipped We have the advantage of virtually no preditors that will take a healthy cat, the majority of indoor/outdoor cats in the UK live long and healthy lives. My granfather was owned by a cat that at the age of 22 refused to enter the house anymore, for the next five years he howelled at the back door t o be fed. SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk > My granfather was owned by a cat that at the age of 22 refused to enter the > house anymore, for the next five years he howelled at the back door t o be > fed. Are you saying that your grandfather had a cat live to age 27?? Joyce >> My granfather was owned by a cat that at the age of 22 refused to >> enter the house anymore, for the next five years he howelled at the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Joyce Yes. SignatureAdrian >>> I wish I could let mine out this is one definite advantage that UK >>> cats have, Lee [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > the house anymore, for the next five years he howelled at the back door t > o be fed. I wasn't passing judgement, Adrian, just saying that the culture is different there. I'd once been told that in the US the "mores" are cats stay in and dogs stay out and that it's vice versa in the UK. From reading newsgroups for so many years I do know that cats both here and overseas are often victims of cars or "go missing", so those dangers are, I think, universal. Re predators, just curious, don't you guys have "birds of prey" there? I know Bonbon had at least one cat taken by an owl right here in Houston. I do realize that you guys don't have nearly as many four-legged predators we have here. Hugs, CatNipped [trim] > I'd once been told that in the US the "mores" are cats > stay in and dogs stay out and that it's vice versa in the UK. From reading > newsgroups for so many years I do know that cats both here and overseas are > often victims of cars or "go missing", so those dangers are, I think, > universal. The mores seem to vary between rural and city life in the US as well - rural cats tend to be outdoor or indoor/outdoor, city cats are more likely to be housepets. Small towns get a mix it seems - there are a lot of indoor/outdoor cats where I live, but at least a handful of spoiled housecats. Personally, it seems that the most sensible thing to do is to adjust to the cat and the hazards of the area. Living on a main road, and in an area where there are a handful of irresponsible dog owners, I don't feel comfortable letting my cats out. If I were in a more rural area, though, a couple of my cats would probably be allowed out. Not Shadow, though, as he has no sense around much of anything, and not Mayhem because she's terrified of the outdoors and it'd take hours to get her out from under the nearest set of bushes. Maeve >^..^< Signaturehttp://volatiledreams.deep-ice.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/minnow/ >>>> I wish I could let mine out this is one definite advantage that UK >>>> cats have, Lee [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > CatNipped We have eagles in Scotland that could take a cat, though not in large numbers. In England and Wales the only large birds of prey would be escapees from collectors, which is very rare. SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk >>>>> I wish I could let mine out this is one definite advantage that UK >>>>> cats have, Lee [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > numbers. In England and Wales the only large birds of prey would be > escapees from collectors, which is very rare. Wow, that boggles the mind, you guys don't have falcons or owls or vultures?!!. Here we have eagles, falcons, owls, and vultures - and the list of four-legged predators in *huge*. No wonder the mores of pet ownership are so different. Hugs, CatNipped > Wow, that boggles the mind, you guys don't have falcons or owls or > vultures?!!. Here we have eagles, falcons, owls, and vultures - and the > list of four-legged predators in *huge*. No wonder the mores of pet > ownership are so different. We do have raptors here, but not the cross section of *large* raptors that you do in the USA. And if someone saw a vulture in the UK it would all over the national press as a zoo escapee! Helen M >> Wow, that boggles the mind, you guys don't have falcons or owls or >> vultures?!!. Here we have eagles, falcons, owls, and vultures - and the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Helen M Speaking of which... Some time ago, Vernon & I were out on our bicycles pootling round the lanes of Norfolk. There was the shape of a large bird in the sky. So I turn to Vernon & say words to the effect of, "You'd better get a move on or the vulture will have you." On getting home, reading the local rag, lo and behold an article on a vulture escaped from a collection. It was later recaptured :-) In any event, the raptors of the UK aren't exactly interested in felines. The only real possible one which *might* show an interest would be a golden eagle as as they are only found in *very remote* areas, the chances of them coming across a British moggies are very small indeed - the Scottish Highlands being exceedingly scarely populated. > > Wow, that boggles the mind, you guys don't have falcons or owls or > > vultures?!!. Here we have eagles, falcons, owls, and vultures - and the > > list of four-legged predators in *huge*. No wonder the mores of pet > > ownership are so different. > We do have raptors here, but not the cross section of *large* raptors > that you do in the USA. And if someone saw a vulture in the UK it > would all over the national press as a zoo escapee! Please excuse my ignorance, but I thought vultures only ate carrion. Do they also hunt live prey? Joyce > > > Wow, that boggles the mind, you guys don't have falcons or owls or > > > vultures?!!. Here we have eagles, falcons, owls, and vultures - and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Joyce Vultures are carrion-eaters. Just don't go into a deep sleep anywhere near one ;-) > > > Wow, that boggles the mind, you guys don't have falcons or owls or > > > vultures?!!. Here we have eagles, falcons, owls, and vultures - and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Please excuse my ignorance, but I thought vultures only ate carrion. > Do they also hunt live prey? They are mainly carrion eaters, but, like any animal, will eat anything dead *or* living when hungry. They have pretty fearsome beaks and talons and can easily kill small prey. Hugs, CatNipped > Joyce > I'd once been told that in the US the "mores" are cats stay > in and dogs stay out and that it's vice versa in the UK. Dogs stay out in the US? I'd have thought that would only be in the very poorest areas. (In the UK, a stray dog is a police matter - it would probably get impounded within hours in most places). ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ============== Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760 <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975 stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557 >> I'd once been told that in the US the "mores" are cats stay >> in and dogs stay out and that it's vice versa in the UK. > > Dogs stay out in the US? I'd have thought that would only be in the > very poorest areas. (In the UK, a stray dog is a police matter - it > would probably get impounded within hours in most places). Mostly in fenced-in yards with a dog house for those climates that get cold - but I have seen neighborhoods where dogs are allowed to run loose (and have faced that hazard often while biking. Hugs, CatNipped > ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk > ============== [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 > 557 >>>> I wish I could let mine out this is one definite advantage that UK >>>> cats have, Lee [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > do realize that you guys don't have nearly as many four-legged predators > we have here. Yes, we do have birds of prey but in the majority of Britain there isn't one big enough to take a cat or kitten. There is a slight risk from rogue foxes, most foxes won't take a cat, but as some do, it's worth thinking about for kittens and young cats. Having said that, KFC spent most of her life outside and despite being very tiny, never had a problem with a fox. I wonder why:-) Have you ever been to Britain? I think if you had, you would realise that it okay to let our cats out (mainly) I am not in favour of keeping cats totally inside in the UK. In most of the country it is safe for them for go outside to hunt. For me, in the UK I have to ask a question, if you have to keep your cat in the house 24/7 why do you do it? and is this OK? And don't get cross with me for asking, and should you have cats at all if that's their life. I ask this kindly Lets lea >>>>> I wish I could let mine out this is one definite advantage that UK >>>>> cats have, Lee [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > cross with me for asking, and should you have cats at all if that's their > life. I ask this kindly No offense taken, and none given intentionally. I understand that people have different ways of doing things, for different reasons and that we all love our fur-babies. Where I live, it is *extremely* dangerous for cats to be outside. I see cats dead in the road almost daily and it's very distressing for me. Also, I live just north of Houston and there are still quite a bit of woods around me (in fact, just two weeks ago I saw a fawn lying dead on the side of the road). I've seen raccoons (and we still have quite a lot of incidents of rabies in the US - just last year a child here in Houston died when a rabid bat flew into his house and bit him), possums (which can be very dangerous), coyotes, owls, falcons and hawks, and a bobcat. In other areas of the US there are wolves, bears, mountain lions, lynx's, nutria, and any other number of large predators. That's not even to mention people who find it amusing to set cats on fire or use them to "bait" fighting pit bulls. I have five cats that stay indoors exclusively. Granted I have a very large house, but that's not really an issue since they're not running around all day after they're no longer kittens. They have cat trees in front of windows where they can watch squirrels and birds, an aquarium where they can watch fishes swimming around, and about a zillionty toys of every type and description. And they have each other to run and play with. I assure you, they are *far* from bored. They have *never* been outside, so they really don't miss it. In fact, when I have my doors or windows open they tend to hide from the scary "out". Jessie is the only one who will attempt to run outside (she gets excited when she sees a squirrel or bird and forgets how scared she is of outside) - but she quickly gets frightened and runs back inside. All in all they seem to have a very enjoyable and interesting life - they're not bored or overweight, and they play like kittens daily when they get the "zoomies". Hugs, CatNipped > Lets lea > For me, in the UK I have to ask a question, if you have to keep > your cat in the house 24/7 why do you do it? and is this OK? As we moved from a top-floor city city flat where the cats couldn't go out to a terrace house in a middling-rural area where they could, we have some experience with this. Some of our cats were obviously much happier with the extra freedom, others didn't really care. The biggest difference was with Muriel; she was about 9 when we moved, had never lived anywhere except city flats, and as far as we knew she didn't have a purr. She started purring a few weeks after we moved. That tells me something. Actually the cats could sort of go out in the city flat. We were in a Georgian Edinburgh tenement with a windowledge that went all the way along the block. One cat, Busby, figured this one out and used to for night walks along the ledge (four floors up). At one point he used to go into a neighbour's flat if the window was open, pee in her houseplants and come back home. It took her months to work out why her plants had started smelling of cat pee. Then one day Busby went out of the window, I didn't realize he'd gone and shut it, and he didn't come back the next morning. I presume somebody further along the block must have adopted him, since if he'd fallen off we'd have found him. They were happiest when we had some building work done on the sunny side of the block. There was scaffolding up for a few months and the cats could sit outside and photosynthesize or go and stare through the neighbours' windows. They were dead miffed when it was taken away. ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ============== Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760 <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975 stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557 the truth to this is that each person must decide for themselves and their cats, when violette first came to us we let her out, but a child moved into town, along with some other issues that made me switch them to indoor only, on the other hand, my mom's cat has never been in the house, and that is how it has to be as my father is highly allergic... if my mother hadn't taken the cat it would have been pts that day, so which is better, outside and alive or dead? this is so situational, other than discussing the pro/con of a specific situation I don't think we can be judgmental, Lee > >>>> I wish I could let mine out this is one definite advantage that UK > >>>> cats have, Lee [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > Lets lea totally disagree with you on this, less predators, and it seems better laws to contain the crazy types, just think of Helen ME and the cat hater in her bloc, would never be done here, I think both the culture and the predators and honestly the fact that the brits seem to look out for each other's animals are all vast differences to me, Lee > >I wish I could let mine out this is one definite advantage that UK cats > > have, Lee [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >> > >> Tweed > totally disagree with you on this, less predators, and it seems better > laws [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and honestly the fact that the brits seem to look out for each other's > animals are all vast differences to me, Lee I won't tell anybody else how to keep their cats or claim that they love them less if they're allowed out - especially on another continent where there are differents mores. But please don't insult my intelligence by saying you have better laws to contain the crazy types there. I've seen reports of people putting cats in ovens, shooting them with bb guns, hanging them, nailing them to fence posts, and lots of other atrocities right there in the UK. The US doesn't have exclusive rights to crazies. Also, there are cars in the UK just as there are in the US (that's what started this thread, remember?). And, contrary to rumor, there *are* a few decent people in the US who will look out for others' pets, but there's not a lot you can do when you're driving down the highway and a cat runs out in front of your car - especially where there are no houses close where you might even let them know that their pet isn't going to be coming home any more. Hugs, CatNipped >> >I wish I could let mine out this is one definite advantage that UK cats >> > have, Lee [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >> >> >> >> Tweed just for the record I live in central Illinois, not in the UK, and I am sorry, if you disagree but their laws are vastly better in the area of animal care, if you doubt it, just look at the declaw issue, Lee > > totally disagree with you on this, less predators, and it seems better > > laws [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > >> >> > >> >> Tweed > just for the record I live in central Illinois, not in the UK, and I am > sorry, if you disagree but their laws are vastly better in the area of > animal care, if you doubt it, just look at the declaw issue, Lee The law against declawing is a very different thing than curbing animal abuse by crazies (their laws in that area are about what and what with ours - neither is strict enough in my opinion). But, yes, they are far more civilized when it comes to declawing. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to snap at you, but I really hate it when people try to demonize the US. I don't even take personal affrontage, but my *children* live in the US and I believe they are very GOOD people - and so are the rest of my family and friends! ;> Hugs, CatNipped >> > totally disagree with you on this, less predators, and it seems better >> > laws [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] >> >> >> >> >> >> Tweed this isn't about demonizing, its about the laws that are on the books, and if you read them, nowhere is strict enough to suit me, but if you compare, actual crimes on the books, people charged/convicted and time/sentences they are more civilized. there are lots of wonderful people anywhere you care to look its just that most of the good people are busy trying to make a living instead of trying to change laws. Lee > > just for the record I live in central Illinois, not in the UK, and I am > > sorry, if you disagree but their laws are vastly better in the area of [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Tweed > this isn't about demonizing, its about the laws that are on the books, and > if you read them, nowhere is strict enough to suit me, but if you compare, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > living > instead of trying to change laws. Lee Sorry, but no, you're wrong. The laws regarding animal abuse in Texas are some of the strictest and the punishments the harshest in the world. It's a felony here and you can do *hard time* for it. Texas is also one of the very few places where a jury can award you monetary damages for "pain and suffering" and the emotional harm caused by someone hurting or killing your pet (most places will only award the cost of the animal and, sometimes, vet bills). I get tickled when Americans believe so fervently that people in the UK are so much more civilized because they talk with a pretty accent and stick their pinkies out when drinking tea. I'm not saying that they are any *worse* than people in America, but neither are they any better. Remember this.... Until quite recently in the UK, fox hunts were legal where hounds hunted down and then tore apart foxes and the lead horseman was awarded the fox's tail as a trophy. The UK originated the punishment of "hanged, drawn and quartered": [The full sentence passed upon those convicted of High Treason up to 1870 was as follows : "That you be drawn on a hurdle to the place of execution where you shall be hanged by the neck and being alive cut down, your privy members shall be cut off and your bowels taken out and burned before you, your head severed from your body and your body divided into four quarters to be disposed of at the King's pleasure." So not for the faint-hearted then!!] It was the US who originated the law against "cruel and unusual punishment". I know there are good laws and bad laws on both sides of "the pond" as there are good people and bad people both places too. But please don't try to tell me that my country is any *more* savage or brutal than any other - it's just *NOT TRUE*. And as an American, you should be ashamed of yourself for thinking so! Hugs, CatNipped >> this isn't about demonizing, its about the laws that are on the books, >> and [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > down and then tore apart foxes and the lead horseman was awarded the fox's > tail as a trophy. Excuse me, I mis-spoke - it appears that fox hunting is *still* legal in the UK. So the country you're praising for being so much more civilized than the US still allows packs of hounds to chase down for hours and then tear apart foxes. http://www.mfha.org.uk/ Hugs, CatNipped > The UK originated the punishment of "hanged, drawn and quartered": [The > full sentence passed upon those convicted of High Treason up to 1870 was [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > CatNipped > Excuse me, I mis-spoke - it appears that fox hunting is *still* legal > in the UK. So the country you're praising for being so much more > civilized than the US still allows packs of hounds to chase down for > hours and then tear apart foxes. http://www.mfha.org.uk/ No, you were right the first time, hunting with dogs *is* illegal in the UK. SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk >> Excuse me, I mis-spoke - it appears that fox hunting is *still* legal >> in the UK. So the country you're praising for being so much more [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > No, you were right the first time, hunting with dogs *is* illegal in the > UK. Sorry, the site made it look like they were still organizing hunts - I had to read much further down that they are only fighting the ban. And Adrian, I'm really *NOT* trying to put down the UK or anyone in it - I just hate it when *Americans* slander, defame, and spread falsehoods about *their own* country! The US is not a single whit better than the UK, but it's not the demon some make it out to be either. Hugs, CatNipped >> [quoted text muted] > > Sorry, the site made it look like they were still organizing hunts - I had > to read much further down that they are only fighting the ban. And as a point of interest, it was somewhat recently that foxhunting was banned in the US. Dan after the UK I think, Lee > >> [quoted text muted] > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Dan not reading enough seems to be a real issue with you, Lee > >> Excuse me, I mis-spoke - it appears that fox hunting is *still* legal > >> in the UK. So the country you're praising for being so much more [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Cats leave pawprints on your heart > > http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk > not reading enough seems to be a real issue with you, Lee And you if you think that there is any place that has a patent on civilized behavior by all its citizens. And that's real class you've shown to insult me, immediately say the conversation is over for you, and then continue to snipe at me in other posts. If you want to disparage your country and imply we're uncivilized, fine go ahead - but don't expect me to ignore insults to mine. Hugs, CatNipped >> >> Excuse me, I mis-spoke - it appears that fox hunting is *still* legal >> >> in the UK. So the country you're praising for being so much more [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> > Cats leave pawprints on your heart >> > http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk >>> this isn't about demonizing, its about the laws that are on the books, >>> and [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > CatNipped And, according to the BBC, 200,000 people in the UK participate in fox hunts where they might get to see a fox ripped limb from limb and disemboweled. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/449139.stm Hugs, CatNipped >> The UK originated the punishment of "hanged, drawn and quartered": [The >> full sentence passed upon those convicted of High Treason up to 1870 was [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> >> CatNipped > And, according to the BBC, 200,000 people in the UK participate in > fox hunts where they might get to see a fox ripped limb from limb and > disemboweled. > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/449139.stm That was nearly 8 years ago, once again you have your facts wrong. SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk >> And, according to the BBC, 200,000 people in the UK participate in >> fox hunts where they might get to see a fox ripped limb from limb and >> disemboweled. >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/449139.stm > > That was nearly 8 years ago, once again you have your facts wrong. Once again, I apologize, as I did to your first post. The links I found made it look like fox hunting was still happening. I'm very glad that it's not. Hugs, CatNipped Adrian I think I have a crush on you, Lee > > And, according to the BBC, 200,000 people in the UK participate in > > fox hunts where they might get to see a fox ripped limb from limb and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Cats leave pawprints on your heart > http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk Awww. Shucks. :-) > Adrian I think I have a crush on you, Lee SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk > it appears that fox hunting is *still* legal in the UK. So the > country you're praising for being so much more civilized than > the US still allows packs of hounds to chase down for hours and > then tear apart foxes. It's been banned in Scotland for a few years now. There is no such thing as "UK" law - Scots and English/Welsh law have never been the same, and on issues like this they're increasingly diverging since the Scottish Parliament took responsibility for such matters north of the border. > http://www.mfha.org.uk/ Given what that acronym stands for, I'm going to give the site a swerve just as I would a Texas snake-torturing site. It hadn't occurred to me that those ghouls would even know how to use the web. For sure *something* got banned in England a couple of years ago or that lot wouldn't have been staging demos about it. The problem both sides of the pond is more to do with the culture than the law. (Americans have an unfortunate tendency to assume that if a country has banned something it doesn't happen and if it's legal everybody must be doing it). The nastiest kinds of animal cruelty in the UK are livestock rearing (no worse than the rest of the world but no better either), hare coursing (which has been illegal for years) and game shooting (most shot birds get away and die slowly; most shooting estates poison any wildlife that might predate on their game, and get away with it). No change in the law is going to make much direct difference to those. The shooting estates are really beyond the law and the only reasonable solution would be land confiscation to shut the whole business down. Eliminating the US hunting culture would be even harder. I reckon the country with the greatest per-capita violence against the animal kingdom is Malta. That place is just plain sick. ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ============== Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760 <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975 stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557 >> it appears that fox hunting is *still* legal in the UK. So the >> country you're praising for being so much more civilized than [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > I reckon the country with the greatest per-capita violence against > the animal kingdom is Malta. That place is just plain sick. Thank you for a more balanced and knowledgeable response than mine. Again, I apologize for my knee-jerk reaction and any misinformation I posted. Hugs, CatNipped > ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk > ============== [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 > 557 On Oct 26, 8:39 am, Jack Campin - bogus address <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > it appears that fox hunting is *still* legal in the UK. So the > > country you're praising for being so much more civilized than [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > I reckon the country with the greatest per-capita violence against > the animal kingdom is Malta. That place is just plain sick. I haven't heard what happens in Malta. I don't think I want to. You're right that animal-cruelty-for-sport is universal. And no, I sure don't assume that because it's illegal, it doesn't happen. I'm sure the UK and US can pretty well match each other. Hare coursing, foxhunting---then there's dogfighting, chickenfighting here. Not to mention the "legal" animal abuse issues--which includes rattlesnake hunts, as well as some aspects of rodeo, and others. I don't think anyone lives in a glass house on this one. We've all got a long way to go. Sherry and eliminating the hunting culture is why we have deer slaughtered on the highways by my home every year and why we have them charging into shops and destroying property and themselves in a slow and painful way, Lee > > it appears that fox hunting is *still* legal in the UK. So the > > country you're praising for being so much more civilized than [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975 > stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557 > and eliminating the hunting culture is why we have deer slaughtered on the > highways by my home every year and why we have them charging into shops > and > destroying property and themselves in a slow and painful way, Lee I have no problem with hunting and killing for food - it's the torturing I object to. Hugs, CatNipped >> > it appears that fox hunting is *still* legal in the UK. So the >> > country you're praising for being so much more civilized than [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >> 739 > 557 > "Stormmee" <rgrass@consolidated.net> wrote in message >> and eliminating the hunting culture is why we have deer slaughtered on the >> highways by my home every year and why we have them charging into shops >> and destroying property and themselves in a slow and painful way, Lee > I have no problem with hunting and killing for food - it's the torturing I > object to. I might be wrong about this, but it sounds like Lee was saying that by eliminating deer hunting, people have allowed the deer to proliferate to the point where they're all over the place - on highways, shops, etc., and then dying in slower and more painful ways. In other words, in this case, it might be kinder to hunt them? Is that what you meant, Lee? Even if you didn't mean that, I do think it's true that when there's not enough selection pressure on a species, so that they overpopulate an area, their lives can become a lot more miserable (due to starvation and other problems) than it would be with reasonable management, either by natural predators, or controlled hunting. Joyce it is exactly what I meant, one of the deer that busted into a store, in Springfield IL, our state capitol, bled to death because it was inside the building and it took a bit to get the humans out so it could be shot, and it was horrid because it had glass sticking out of it and for some reason it had missed arteries, it took about 45 minutes of this thing thrashing around and suffering before they could kill it, also on the exit to our house, it is not uncommon to see 2 or more a day for a month, and we do have deer season here just not enough to keep them under control, Lee > > "Stormmee" <rgrass@consolidated.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Joyce > Even if you didn't mean that, I do think it's true that when there's not > enough selection pressure on a species, so that they overpopulate an area, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Joyce I would have to agree with that. In a lot of areas in the US coyotes are thriving. So much so that they are putting way more pressure than normal on local prey populations (that is, they're eating all the rabbits and squirrels and stray dogs and cats) and large parts of the population are underfed. This makes them more prone to opportunistic infestations like mange. So if someone asked me if it was more humane for hunters to stalk them and kill them quickly, or leave them alone and allow them to starve to death, possibly in the agony brought on by mange, I'd say bring on the hunters. In other areas it's deer. Or rabbits. Or squirrels. Any wild animal can be subject to localized overpopulation that can lead to horrible, slow, painful death to members of that species. Not to mention severe depredation of creatures lower on the food chain. > > "Stormmee" <rgrass@consolidated.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > problems) than it would be with reasonable management, either by natural > predators, or controlled hunting. Yes, that's how I took it too. And I don't have any problems with people hunting - my son-in-laws provides about 1/3 his family's meat supply with venison and pork (form wild boar). And you're right, when a species is allowed to proliferate to the point of over-population and starvation they suffer a much worse fate than a swift kill. Hugs, CatNipped > Joyce > and eliminating the hunting culture is why we have deer slaughtered on the > highways by my home every year and why we have them charging into shops and > destroying property and themselves in a slow and painful way, Lee The culture of hunting is alive and well in Central Texas. Yet, deer get killed on the highways all the time and deer run amok come mating season. Men are indeed responsible for out of control deer population, but not because of not hunting the deer. We build homes and shops and highways on *their* territories. We kill wolves and other predators that normally would keep their populations in check. SignatureVictor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com to some decree I agree with you but now that we as humans have screwed it up there aren't many ways to fix it, Lee > > and eliminating the hunting culture is why we have deer slaughtered on the > > highways by my home every year and why we have them charging into shops and [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov > Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com > to some decree I agree with you but now that we as humans have screwed it > up > there aren't many ways to fix it, Lee Maybe I'm just an optimist, but I think there are ways to fix things. I can't see just throwing my hands up and bewailing fate. Maybe because I have grandchildren who are nearing the age of having their own children, but I'd like to see this bright blue marble we call home become healthy and a good place to live again. That's why I stay active when it comes to protests and writing to our congress critters to get bad laws changed. If nobody even tries to change things then we *are* all doomed and I just can't accept that, because the future is too dear to me on a very personal level. Hugs, CatNipped >> > and eliminating the hunting culture is why we have deer slaughtered on > the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov >> Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com > The culture of hunting is alive and well in Central Texas. Yet, deer get > killed on the highways all the time and deer run amok come mating > season. Men are indeed responsible for out of control deer population, > but not because of not hunting the deer. We build homes and shops and > highways on *their* territories. We kill wolves and other predators that > normally would keep their populations in check. Which is also what's happened in the Scottish Highlands. That barren heather landscape is artificial - the deer populations are kept so high by the hunting business (which has eliminated natural predators like wolves and lynx) that they eat any tree seedlings when they're inches high. The result for the deer is that they're permanently malnourished - genetically identical populations exported to New Zealand and South Georgia grow to double the weight their ancestors reached in Scotland. (At least deer usually die fairly soon after being shot. Birds don't, and they're killed in far greater numbers). ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ============== Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760 <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975 stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557 <snip> > I reckon the country with the greatest per-capita violence against > the animal kingdom is Malta. That place is just plain sick. Yes, it really saddens me the numbers of songbirds killed there during migration. :-( SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk you obviously haven't read enough on this subject and you have also obviously chosen to pick and choose rather than reading a full gamut of the history and laws this discussion is now over for me, don't you ever insult anyone by telling them what to be ashamed of, this is very offensive to me since DH is a naturalized citizen and I know what that means, Lee > > this isn't about demonizing, its about the laws that are on the books, and > > if you read them, nowhere is strict enough to suit me, but if you compare, [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > CatNipped As I leave, I wonder if "Blocking could become a sport in any countey" Troucle is, "the blocked" keep showing up all over the place". > you obviously haven't read enough on this subject and you have also > obviously chosen to pick and choose rather than reading a full gamut of [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] >> >> CatNipped > A few healing purrs would be appreciated. Thanks. I'm so sorry your misgivings were realized like this. Many purrs on the way for Tigger to recover soon and completely. I hope your brother learned a lesson. Too bad Tigger is the one who had to suffer. SignatureMarina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. >> A few healing purrs would be appreciated. Thanks. > > I'm so sorry your misgivings were realized like this. Many purrs on the > way for Tigger to recover soon and completely. I hope your brother learned > a lesson. Too bad Tigger is the one who had to suffer. I know that there was nothing I could have done apart from what I did, Marina. How many times can you say to someone "you have never had a cat before, I have, maybe I can help with learning how to keep him?" So it was ignored and now Charlotte is still crying for her kitty and my brother will have to find hundreds of Uk pounds to put the cat right. Anyone with any sense would not have let this young cat out yet and if the RSPCA (that's who the shelter was) should say such a thing, then, well Cue Helen. > I know that there was nothing I could have done apart from what I did, > Marina. How many times can you say to someone "you have never had a cat > before, I have, maybe I can help with learning how to keep him?" > So it was ignored and now Charlotte is still crying for her kitty And I'm sitting here crying for Charlotte. For Tigger, too, of course, but there's something about the thought of a little girl heartbroken about her injured cat that is so incredibly sad to me. I really, really hope he gets better or I won't be able to stand it. > Anyone with any sense would not have let this young cat out yet and if the > RSPCA (that's who the shelter was) should say such a thing, then, well > Cue Helen. Hell, cue me! I have a mind to send them an email containing my thoughts on the matter... wonder if they'd bother to listen to some ranting American with no connection to this cat or family? Joyce > Anyone with any sense would not have let this young cat out yet and if the > RSPCA (that's who the shelter was) should say such a thing, then, well > Cue Helen. And now I'm back online (YAY!) I take my Cue..... The RSPCA are Moronic, Cretinous Imbeciles. I don't want to start off on a rant, because I'll be here until the middle of next week, but needless to say I will never be rational when discussing them as an organisation. And I sincerely hope that Tigger is feeling an awful lot better soon and that he is on the mend quickly. It might be worth suggesting to your brother that the best age for Tigger to start going out and about is at about 9 -12 months UNDER SUPERVISION and most certainly after he's had his nadgers nipped. Lily wasn't allowed out unaccompanied through the catflap until April this year. She was 18 months old by then. Helen M >I got a phone call from my brother tonight. The phone call that I've been >expecting. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Tweed Oh my, Christina! Thr poor little fellow! We are sending huge purrs for all of you. Purrs on the way for Tigger to heal quickly. I suspect your brother might have learned his lesson. Purrs for him and especially your niece. Julie, Hobbes, Lacey, Sam and Barnabus > Purrs on the way for Tigger to heal quickly. I suspect your brother > might have learned his lesson. I know very well he has. I just wish he might have sought my advice before he got a kitten. Not that I I am an expert, but I have two cats and he's never had one and I've learnt a lot from this newsgroup that I could have passed on. "Before" he got one. Tweed Purrs for him and especially your > niece. > > Julie, Hobbes, Lacey, Sam and Barnabus > A few healing purrs would be appreciated. Thanks. > > Tweed Healing purrs on the way for the little one. Sam, closely supervised by Mistletoe On Oct 21, 1:49 pm, "Christina Websell" <spamf...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote: > I got a phone call from my brother tonight. The phone call that I've been > expecting. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Tweed Poor thing! Purrs for Tigger on the way. MAYBE your brother will now see sense about keeping the poor little guy inside. Melissa > I got a phone call from my brother tonight. The phone call that I've been > expecting. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Tweed Poor Tigger and Charlotte! Lots of healing purrs and best wishes for Tigger's complete recovery and lots of gentle hugs for Charlotte, Polonca and Soncek |
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