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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / July 2007Toygers, the new cat breed
Watch these great new cats: http://www.toygers.nl > Watch these great new cats: > > http://www.toygers.nl Yeah, just what we need - another greedy breeder adding cats to a world so overpopulated with cats that thousands are euthanized every day for lack of a loving home. Do you realize how far $4000 could be stretched by shelters to take care of cats nobody wants because they aren't "designer" cats (when the *ONLY* difference is coat color)??!!! CatNipped > > Watch these great new cats: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > CatNipped Oh, there's probably a bigger difference than just coat color. Along with your $4,000 cat, you'll get a plethora of genetic anomalties and health problems. AFter all, this breed is "new" and it'll take "a few more years" for Ms. Cat God to get the kinks worked out of her new breed. Sherry >> Watch these great new cats: >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >CatNipped I agree with you, Lori. I love all cats, and have a lot of difficulty seeing them merely as objects, or property, or status symbols. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh Make Levees, Not War > Watch these great new cats: > > http://www.toygers.nl Don't even get me started. This breeder should be strung up. That's one of the most disgusting articles I've ever read. More designer cats. That's just what we need. Sherry > > Watch these great new cats: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Sherry And I wonder if Ms. Cat God Jerk-Wad herself is the one who spammed *every* cat group with this amazing announcement. I said I wasn't going to get started. But I was in a pissy mood when I read this post to begin with, and now I just want to choke the living sh.t out of anybody out there who is stupid enough, callous enough, heartless enough, to screw with genetics trying to perfect a breed. What happens to the cast-offs that occurred (and you know they did).....until this perfect "Toyger"?? Arrgghh. I'm stepping away from the computer now to throw up. Sherry >> > Watch these great new cats: >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > you know they did).....until this perfect "Toyger"?? > Arrgghh. I'm stepping away from the computer now to throw up. I'm with you on this Sherry. Its awful. If it's any consolation I have always said that next time I have a vacancy - and I hope that will not be soon - I will get a cat that no-one wants. An extremely shy feral would fit in well here. There is plenty of room for them to be outside around the chicken huts if they might like to hunt. There are sheds to sleep in if they are too shy to come inside. Both mine had gone semi-feral, however I am very quiet in my home and they came in eventually to enjoy the delights of sleeping on the duvet on the spare bed. And to torment me about "did you say it was time for breakfast/or/dinner? Tweed > > Watch these great new cats: > > http://www.toygers.nl > Don't even get me started. This breeder should be strung up. > That's one of the most disgusting articles I've ever read. > More designer cats. That's just what we need. I used to think that way, but one experience has made me reconsider. My Muriel is 17 and has had next to no health problems at all, prior to getting cancer a few months ago. She's still bouncing around like a cat half her age. Virtually nobody seeing her for the first time guesses her age within ten years. We got her from somebody who got her from the cat and dog home, but she's obviously a British Shorthair silver tabby, and an exceptionally beautiful example of the breed. The breeders who produced her must have not only created the coat and body shape they wanted, they also eliminated a whole lot of bad health genes as well. I'd consider getting another one direct from a breeder: in the long run, the saving on vet's bills would outweigh the cost of a rather expensive kitten (they cost more than Persians). The site says there are 350 Toyger breeders. That's a pretty large gene pool, comparable to some whole species like gorillas and right whales. ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ============== Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760 <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975 stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557 >> > Watch these great new cats: >> > http://www.toygers.nl [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > her from the cat and dog home, but she's obviously a British Shorthair > silver tabby, and an exceptionally beautiful example of the breed. I'm not disputing that Muriel *is* a pedigree BS silver tabby, if you say so, but are you sure about this? Does she have that large round face that British Shorthairs have? Pure bred BSh's look a lot different from DSH's that happen to be silver tabby. It's one of my favourite colours. > The breeders who produced her must have not only created the coat > and body shape they wanted, they also eliminated a whole lot of bad > health genes as well. Did they? How did they do that, then? Methinks you are just lucky in getting a long-lived cat. > I'd consider getting another one direct from > a breeder: in the long run, the saving on vet's bills would outweigh > the cost of a rather expensive kitten (they cost more than Persians). I can see the attraction of a beautiful pure bred cat. A colleague has a Bengal and showed me photos, he is absolutely stunning to look at. Fabulous. He is perfect pain in the whatsit to live with though, apparently, very vocal and does a lot of damage in the house. Many years ago I went to a cat show, and I fell in love with Havanas. I wanted one immediately, they were *so* beautiful. I talked myself out of it - realising that I had been seduced by their beauty ;-) My two, who came without any invitation, are moggies, mongrels if you like to call them that, but Kitty FC is still going strong into her 20's and Boyfriend has had no health problems whatsoever up to now. > The site says there are 350 Toyger breeders. That's a pretty large > gene pool, comparable to some whole species like gorillas and right > whales. That might be so. IMO there are already enough pure bred cat breeds to make a choice from and inventing new ones is just for making money. Your view may differ. Tweed > Watch these great new cats: > > http://www.toygers.nl OK I looked expecting to see unusual cats. I think Bengalis are gorgeous although I wouldn't have one on a bet. But someone correct me if I'm wrong. But don't we already HAVE tiger stripped cats? Lots and lots of tiger striped cats? Darn near everything I saw had pretty much the same marking you can see at animal shelters every day. And I didn't see a one in their lot of experiments that had what anyone without a great deal of imagination could call an orange background with black stripes anyway. Now I'm going to feed my perfectly good orange and white and tabby calico. >> Watch these great new cats: >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Now I'm going to feed my perfectly good orange and white and tabby calico. ------------------------- I, personally like the one with the grapefruit helmet. MLB > >> Watch these great new cats: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > I, personally like the one with the grapefruit helmet. MLB It's not the cats' fault. If one of them came into our home she would be welcome. However, this seems like a bad idea in general. But the cats themselves are like the wolf hybrids my friend has as rescues. They can't help what they are and they are actually working out quite well as, neutered, pets in a controlled situation. The kittens and the wolf hybrids are both actually quite lovely and can be admired while the foolishness that created them must be regretted. And I like the grapefruit helmut too. Will in New Haven -- "The way of the samurai is found in death. If by setting one's heart right every morning and evening, one is able to live as though his body were already dead, he gains freedom in The Way. His whole life will be without blame, and he will succeed in his calling." -- "Hagakure Kikigaki", Yamamoto Tsunetomo > >> Watch these great new cats: > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Lots of Lol's Of course there is another way of looking @ this. Mrs Whats- Her- Name spent a huge amount of her personal money just to achieve a glorified Tabby. Now how foolish is that? Sheelagh >> >> Watch these great new cats: >> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > achieve a glorified Tabby. Now how foolish is that? > Sheelagh Especially when they are working with Bengal's to do it. There has already been a fortune invested in developing that breed with spots! I at least get the point of Bengals. They are beautiful and they are different. They can just be awfully difficult to own. Jo > I at least get the point of Bengals. They are beautiful and they are > different. They can just be awfully difficult to own. A couple of years ago I was visiting someone, and as I was getting out of my car, I noticed a beautiful cat in a next-door neighbor's yard. I was pretty sure it was a Bengal, from the coloring and markings. The cat came up to the edge of the yard and poked its head out of the fence. That cat could easily have squeezed throught that fence and gone off walking down the street. I can't believe its humans let such a monetarily valuable cat outside unguarded - someone could have easily walked off with it. Joyce On Jul 8, 3:18 pm, jXwXeXrXmXoX...@sonic.net wrote: > > I at least get the point of Bengals. They are beautiful and they are > > different. They can just be awfully difficult to own. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Joyce I have seen so many purebred cats end up at the shelter. No Bengals yet, but plenty of persians, orientals, "new" Siamese, a Devon Rex, a Korat once, a Himi, all with papers. People get these cats because they're trendy, or they've seen some movie, and they *think* they want one. Then I guess they realize too late that they're cats. They are cats. They pee, they poop, and they shed. Then the honeymoon's over and they don't care what happens to them as long as they're not the ones cleaning up after them. Sherry >>> I at least get the point of Bengals. They are beautiful and they >>> are different. They can just be awfully difficult to own. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> let such a monetarily valuable cat outside unguarded - someone >> could have easily walked off with it. There was something like that in the mostly-working-class area of Glasgow I used to live in. Somebody had a Persian that used to be a well-known local character. Then one day an expensively dressed woman in a very expensive car came down the road, scooped it up, and that was the last anybody heard of it. (I've never yet met a Persian that was afraid of strangers, they really oughta learn). > I have seen so many purebred cats end up at the shelter. No Bengals > yet, but plenty of persians, orientals, "new" Siamese, a Devon Rex, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > over and they don't care what happens to them as long as they're > not the ones cleaning up after them. The other thing cats do is *escape* - a large proportion of these pedigrees must simply have got lost. Our Muriel must have done that as she didn't have any papers. Our vet has a strange one as one of their office cats. She's a moggy- Bengal cross; she came from a family who intended to produce a litter of them, and thought their Bengal female had had three. Except that the kids kept saying she had four when they saw her outside. It turned out that she'd kept one kitten hidden from the adult humans, and it grew up feral in their garden, ending up at the vet after being caught a couple of miles away. She's the most placid thing imaginable now. ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ============== Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760 <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975 stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557 >http://www.toygers.nl Just way, way too much money for a cat. Yes, I like to look at purebred cats, but I'll take a stray, or shelter cat. Tabbies, tuxedos, marmalade, calico, tortie, all white, all black, all gray. A mixture of all of the preceeding...I love them ALL. Any moggie. Just think how may shelter cats could be adopted for the cost of ONE of those pretty, but horribly expensive, cats? Maybe, just maybe, I might be tempted to buy an applehead Siamese....they're not too expensive, and retired breeders are fairly cheap...but I doubt it. When I have a day off of work, I go visit the cats at the local inHumane Society. I want to take them all home! ~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Life without cats would be only marginally worth living." -TC, and the unmercifully, relentlessly, sweet calico kitty, Kenzie. How you behave towards cats here below determines your status in Heaven. - Robert Heinlein Life is very difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier. -Buddha > >http://www.toygers.nl > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > Life is very difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier. > -Buddha I'm with Gandalf--The only one of my cats who wasn't adopted from the pound was Nina. IF I were to ever get a fancy purebred cat, it would be a Bengal, but I see no need to plonk that kind of money down right now. My dear moggie girls provide ample beauty and companionship. Melissa >> >http://www.toygers.nl >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> >> I want to take them all home! > I'm with Gandalf- Me, too. -The only one of my cats who wasn't adopted from the > pound was Nina. IF I were to ever get a fancy purebred cat, it would > be a Bengal, but I see no need to plonk that kind of money down right > now. Mine would be a Havana, as I said in a previous post. That would be pure indulgence though. My home and set-up is ideal for ex-ferals who no-one will give a chance to and that's what I will have again. I don't mind if my cats are not all over me for lovin all the time, it suits me fine. I don't want an "in yer face" cat. It suits my cats well too, KFC is fierce if pressed for strokings when it is not her idea and Boyfie is shy still. > My dear moggie girls provide ample beauty and companionship. Exactly. Tweed While I love the "look" of Sphynxes and Siamese, I cannot ethically go out and plonk down that money (if I had it) for another kitten to be brought into the world to meet my demand, when the likes of Kumani and Tyche are being thrown out in the garbage. I think the ONLY exception would be for a rare or endangered breed. If I ever found a Sphynx or a Siamese in a shelter, I would consider adopting, but for now I am happy with my four moggies --Fil *informing Smokey that "trailer trash" is not a "breed."* > >> Yes, I like to look at purebred cats, but I'll take a stray, or shelter > >> cat. Tabbies, tuxedos, marmalade, calico, tortie, all white, all black, > >> all gray. A mixture of all of the preceeding...I love them ALL. On Jul 7, 1:24 pm, "Christina Websell" <spamf...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote: > >> >http://www.toygers.nl > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > I don't mind if my cats are not all over me for lovin all the time, it suits > me fine. I don't want an "in yer face" cat. I wouldn't want an "in yer face" cat all the time, but I always DO feel flattered and loved whenever Nina or Francesca curl up in my lap while I'm in my easy chair. =o) Francesca, even then is more of a lady, but Nina is always giving me headbutts and insisting on love. She never stays very long, though. =o) > It suits my cats well too, KFC is fierce if pressed for strokings when it is > not her idea and Boyfie is shy still. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > - Show quoted text I hate to consider what might have happened to Francesca if she hadn't been adopted by me! Would she have then been rejected because of her pregnancy and her kitten with her? Just as well we are all living a happy ever after ending instead! Melissa > Watch these great new cats: > > http://www.toygers.nl It was my fervent hope that this was an April's Fool that was still lurking online so I checked It's not But what a rip off! Don't get me wrong the kittens made me go "ahhhhh" as kittens do (along with EEEEK and Thud!) and they are very pretty cats So I go out and get a Toyger? Ummm....as someone else said they're a new breed and genetic defects might take a while to show up. But what puzzled me most was....Unless the light isn't doing them any favours (and as one assumes these various websites purpose is to persuade the unwary that what they really want to spend ?2,000+ on is a Toyger kitten) they don't look like mini tigers to me. They look a lot like classic striped tabbies....you know, the one's of which 100's of all ages, genders, sizes etc are sitting in shelters the World over waiting for a good home and because they're street cats with what geneticists call hybrid vigour should not show genetic problems. If you've got ?2,000 to spend on a Toyger my advice would be.. 1. Go to a shelter, find yourself a striped tabby to be your own "Tiger in the house" (excellent book), you'll be getting a fine healthy pet, saving a cat from euthanasia (don't it make you feel good) and it will be a lot cheaper...then again you were going to spend ?2,000 on a kitten right?. Make the shelter's day and give them half as an adoption fee, a ?1,000 buys a lot of cat food for truly needy cats (Make yourself feel even better) 2. You've just saved yourself ?1,000 or more and you have one (or maybe even two if you took two double the money, you;d have spent ?4,000 so hand the shelter ?2,000 which should make you feel even better). Now if you really feel generous and want to feel even better than you already do, take the extra ?1,000 and pass it over to a scheme to protect the real thing, ?1,000 buys a lot of help to stop tigers in the wild becoming extinct. I am sure if you shop round, there are schemes to enable you to "adopt" a real tiger for ?1,000 so you get pictures of the beautiful creature that your money is going to help save So for ?2,000 you just saved one or two cats from death because they had nowhere to go, fed a shelter for a few weeks and have contributed towards saving the tigers in their natural; habitat- don't it make you feel good?!! Sadly the reality is people who can spare that kind of cash for a kitten or are even considering it (If anyone gave any of us ?2,000 to get a kitten we'd do the above with the possibility that some of us would just hand the whole amount to the shelter) are looking for something they can show off....."Have you seen my Toyger? Yes, new breed, cost a lot of money" and as soon as (if not sooner) little Toyger starts to show normal cat behaviour like scratching the furniture he or she is off to the vet for declawing....which means Toyger starts to be less cute and...well if you really want a Toyger..I have a horrible feeling (I'd like to be wrong, I;d like to think that someone who gets a kitten does consider the responsibilities and they are cute and it's not their fault for being born) that they could be coming to a shelter near you soon.... Sorry if I'm ranting. There seems to be an outbreak of breeders trying to do this sort of thing lately...I mean they are lovely cats, at least they're not Munchkin's (sorry I know someone will say it's not the cats fault it isn't or someone will say they have a lovely munchkin and I am sure they make great pets but they're androplastic and please tell me it's not true someone is trying to breed "Kangaroo cats" ie radial hypoplasia) but when 1,000's and 1,000's of cats and kittens sit in no-kill shelters (if they're lucky) and Death Row if they're not... Lesley Slave of the Fabulous Furballs Says it all really "Sugden doesn't like to publicize the location of her cattery, for fear of wire-cutting animal-rights activists." Umm..what she means is kitten thieving, her expensive product (kittens) from being stolen for ransom etc If she's just breeding cats for sale (and with no suggestion of neglect they do look superbly turned out) why should a horde of wire- cutting animal rights activists bother her? I think they have better wires to cut....they, like us, might not approve of this sort of thing but I doubt they would do this then again is this some sort of weird selling point? Lesley Slave of the Fabulous Furballs > If she's just breeding cats for sale (and with no suggestion of > neglect they do look superbly turned out) why should a horde of wire- > cutting animal rights activists bother her? I think they have better > wires to cut....they, like us, might not approve of this sort of thing > but I doubt they would do this then again is this some sort of weird > selling point? I could see some animal-rights extremists doing something like that. If we disapprove, then they might well be very strongly opposed to it. And I could see a group going after this breeder because this is something *new* - why not try to nip it in the bud? Plus, it's getting more attention right now than the Siamese and Abyssinian catteries that have been around for ages. Personally, although I wouldn't approve of their methods, if a group did something like that, I would be sympathetic to the beliefs that are behind it. Why are people messing with new designer breeds and clones when there are perfectly wonderful animals dying in shelters every day?? It is hard for me to sympathize with the desire for a purebred because I *prefer* a moggie to almost any purebred. Maybe it's because, ever since I was a baby, there have been moggies in my home and life. So I imprinted on the stripey faces of tabbies, and the sleekness of a domestic shorthair. And so many purebreds just look bizarre to me. I don't get the same "awww" feelings about them. I will say that certain breeds are beautiful - Aby's and Maine Coons in particular. If I decided I *really* had to have one of those, I would contact a group that specialized in breed rescue, and try to adopt one from them. More likely, though, I would end up with a shelter cat who had a mixture including one of those breeds. That would be OK with me, too. Joyce > "Sugden doesn't like to publicize the location of her cattery, for > fear of wire-cutting animal-rights activists." > Umm..what she means is kitten thieving, her expensive product > (kittens) from being stolen for ransom etc There was a case in Britain about a year ago of a Turkish Van tom valued at five figures being kittynapped. (Supposedly there aren't many left after a disease epidemic). > If she's just breeding cats for sale (and with no suggestion of > neglect they do look superbly turned out) why should a horde of wire- > cutting animal rights activists bother her? I think they have better > wires to cut....they, like us, might not approve of this sort of thing > but I doubt they would do this then again is this some sort of weird > selling point? Sound like a publicity stunt to me. Like this one in the musical domain: <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/tyne/4075998.stm> Death threats? Yeah, right. Like when the Northumbrian piping *establishment* includes this guy (gross warning!): <http://www.ceolupnorth.co.uk/gallery/pages/adrian.htm> they're going to be bothered about somebody playing rock on it? ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ============== Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760 <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975 stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557 On 6 Jul, 10:55, KoningPrint <koningpr...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Watch these great new cats: > > http://www.toygers.nl It was my fervent hope that this was an April's Fool that was still lurking online so I checked It's not But what a rip off! Don't get me wrong the kittens made me go "ahhhhh" as kittens do (along with EEEEK and Thud!) and they are very pretty cats So I go out and get a Toyger? Ummm....as someone else said they're a new breed and genetic defects might take a while to show up. But what puzzled me most was....Unless the light isn't doing them any favours (and as one assumes these various websites purpose is to persuade the unwary that what they really want to spend £2,000+ on is a Toyger kitten) they don't look like mini tigers to me. They look a lot like classic striped tabbies....you know, the one's of which 100's of all ages, genders, sizes etc are sitting in shelters the World over waiting for a good home and because they're street cats with what geneticists call hybrid vigour should not show genetic problems. If you've got £2,000 to spend on a Toyger my advice would be.. 1. Go to a shelter, find yourself a striped tabby to be your own "Tiger in the house" (excellent book), you'll be getting a fine healthy pet, saving a cat from euthanasia (don't it make you feel good) and it will be a lot cheaper...then again you were going to spend £2,000 on a kitten right?. Make the shelter's day and give them half as an adoption fee, a £1,000 buys a lot of cat food for truly needy cats (Make yourself feel even better) 2. You've just saved yourself £1,000 or more and you have one (or maybe even two if you took two double the money, you;d have spent £4,000 so hand the shelter £2,000 which should make you feel even better). Now if you really feel generous and want to feel even better than you already do, take the extra £1,000 and pass it over to a scheme to protect the real thing, £1,000 buys a lot of help to stop tigers in the wild becoming extinct. I am sure if you shop round, there are schemes to enable you to "adopt" a real tiger for £1,000 so you get pictures of the beautiful creature that your money is going to help save So for £2,000 you just saved one or two cats from death because they had nowhere to go, fed a shelter for a few weeks and have contributed towards saving the tigers in their natural; habitat- don't it make you feel good?!! Sadly the reality is people who can spare that kind of cash for a kitten or are even considering it (If anyone gave any of us £2,000 to get a kitten we'd do the above with the possibility that some of us would just hand the whole amount to the shelter) are looking for something they can show off....."Have you seen my Toyger? Yes, new breed, cost a lot of money" and as soon as (if not sooner) little Toyger starts to show normal cat behaviour like scratching the furniture he or she is off to the vet for declawing....which means Toyger starts to be less cute and...well if you really want a Toyger..I have a horrible feeling (I'd like to be wrong, I;d like to think that someone who gets a kitten does consider the responsibilities and they are cute and it's not their fault for being born) that they could be coming to a shelter near you soon.... Sorry if I'm ranting. There seems to be an outbreak of breeders trying to do this sort of thing lately...I mean they are lovely cats, at least they're not Munchkin's (sorry I know someone will say it's not the cats fault it isn't or someone will say they have a lovely munchkin and I am sure they make great pets but they're androplastic and please tell me it's not true someone is trying to breed "Kangaroo cats" ie radial hypoplasia) but when 1,000's and 1,000's of cats and kittens sit in no-kill shelters (if they're lucky) and Death Row if they're not... You are a girl after my own heart, Lesley. Tweed |
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