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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / June 2007Integrating the new kitties
I'm finding myself calling Burt "Buster", for some reason. :) I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on integrating these two. They didn't seem to be fighting, but when they meet, what usually happens is that Dot will hiss and growl, Buster will try to get a little closer and lie down, and eventually there will be a commotion with Dot running to a hiding spot, and Buster chasing her. After Dot finds her new hiding spot, Buster will lose interest, and Dot will just stay there all big eyed and unhappy. Dot is such a social and needy cat, it really pains me to see her hiding! So I finally decided to separate them, based on what I've seen so far, and some advice I got from Megan (zuzu). Dot is in my downstairs den/bedroom, and Buster has the run of most of the rest of the downstairs, including the living room and kitchen. Most of the other rooms are closed off. I'm planning on switching them periodically. But obviously I don't want to keep them completely separated forever, as then there won't be any progress, and I so want them to at least tolerate each other! I also notice that these two are much cheekier than Betty was. They both want to be on my desk when I'm on the computer, and on the counter when I'm in the kitchen. I hope that's just a phase. :) By the way, here's a video clip of Burt/Buster/whatever-his-name-is at the shelter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmhdr0xR2Qc I feel so neglectful of him right now, because I'm sitting here with Dot! I'm trying to balance their needs - Dot is more dependant on hoomin reassurance, whereas Buster seems to have a better developed sense of entitlement. > I'm finding myself calling Burt "Buster", for some reason. :) > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > there all big eyed and unhappy. Dot is such a social and needy cat, > it really pains me to see her hiding! They'll work it out, Tak. Take a deep breath and try to relax. They are new to you, new to your home, new to each other. They'll be just fine. They aren't trying to kill each other so just let them work it out over the course of the next week or so. Jill > I'm finding myself calling Burt "Buster", for some reason. :) > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > hoomin reassurance, whereas Buster seems to have a better developed > sense of entitlement. Yes, if they are doing that separation is good. Swap them around. You need to allow some time actually introducing them. I'm certain zuzu gave you some pretty detailed advice and she is good. I think you will get a "feel" for what is the right time for things. As far as feeling neglectful, well, just remember, you are not! If it makes you feel better, you can time it :D, but the cats don't have clocks. About the cheeky thing, well, Dot has had many years elsewhere. With the desk situation, I had to put a little short tree on either side of my desk so each had a spot. These days, I am mostly on the laptop on my lap and Sugar and Pearl do not have the same need as Pearl and Grant did. But back then, a short tree on either side of the desk really helped. Postitive, repetetive reinforcement can teach even a 7 year old cat new tricks. Heck, I taught Pearl to get up on her "testing" tree for blood tests before my surgery so I didn't have to lift her for a while. You are all new at this!! It won't happen tonight, but it will happen. > I also notice that these two are much cheekier than Betty was. They > both want to be on my desk when I'm on the computer, and on the > counter when I'm in the kitchen. I hope that's just a phase. :) A spray bottle will work wonders for the kitchen counter thing. Obviously wherever they lived before they were allowed to do that (or they could just be testing you!). Jill > > I also notice that these two are much cheekier than Betty was. They > > both want to be on my desk when I'm on the computer, and on the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Jill Jill, I seriously wouldn't spray them. That seems so mean, considering they are in a brand-new environment. Sherry >>> I also notice that these two are much cheekier than Betty was. They >>> both want to be on my desk when I'm on the computer, and on the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Sherry Perhaps, but if the behavior isn't curbed I seriously doubt it will just go away in time. Then again, Persia has never shown the slightest interest in jumping up on kitchen counters, desktops, tabletops. The only counter she ever jumped up on was in the bathroom and that's because the running water attracted her. I guess I was just lucky that way. So what would you suggest? Jill > >>> I also notice that these two are much cheekier than Betty was. They > >>> both want to be on my desk when I'm on the computer, and on the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Jill- Hide quoted text - It's really not a big deal around here. They jump on the counter *very* infrequently, I just scold them and set them down. I was just thinking that kitties who are in a brand-new environment, with a brand new hoomin are already afraid and leery. Better to wash the counter a little more often & a little more thoroughly than to scare them. (I think I'm pretty sure Tak doesn't have it in him to use a spray bottle anyway, LOL) Sherry >>>>> I also notice that these two are much cheekier than Betty was. >>>>> They both want to be on my desk when I'm on the computer, and on [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Sherry I agree, I wasn't really thinking about them being brand new to the environment which was silly of me. I only had to use the spray bottle to scare Persia away from my (then) parakeets when she first acquired me. She had to get used to the idea they weren't food and that she couldn't knock the cage over and get at them. Took a little while to get her to stop standing on her hind legs poking at the cage but after a short time just reaching for the bottle made her halt in her tracks! After they died and I decided to get Peaches she didn't even blink at this strange bright new bird :) Jill >>> I also notice that these two are much cheekier than Betty was. They >>> both want to be on my desk when I'm on the computer, and on the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Sherry I have found putting them down everytime works pretty well. They get the idea. > I'm finding myself calling Burt "Buster", for some reason. :) > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > both want to be on my desk when I'm on the computer, and on the > counter when I'm in the kitchen. I hope that's just a phase. :) Don't worry about them--they'll adjust to each other. I think separating them now is good, simply because Buster is chasing Dot. You don't want her to feel terrorized. Just remember internet "advice" is good--but you're *there*, and you have a much better feel how things are going between them. There is no timeline--cats are all different. Dot will learn to tolerate Buster better, and stop running, and then he'll stop chasing her! :-) You already have a very definite analyisis of their personalities! You'll know when they're ready to be friends. Sherry >Don't worry about them--they'll adjust to each other. I think >separating them now is >good, simply because Buster is chasing Dot. You don't want her to feel >terrorized. You know, there's such a difference in her when they're separated. She's sitting here with me so purry and sweet and relaxed. When she's with Buster, she's a sad and unhappy hidey-kitty. Even in her own room, when I'm not there, she goes into hiding. It's only when she sees it's me that she comes out. The process is just starting. Just a few minutes ago, I think I fell in love with Buster. I sat down on the sofa and he was climbed up on my shoulder and started headbutting my chin. As I cuddled him, he went into the cello position and licked an incision - and I remembered that they told me that he was neutered only yesterday. And at that moment I realized that I had been thinking of him all this time as an adult - a young adult, but an adult. But he just seemed like such an adult because he is such a well mannered cat. And I thought about his neutering, the cages, his stoicism in the ride home, his encounter with a new hoomin and a new kitty... I thought... he's been through so much today, and he's really only a baby. I have to protect him, and take care of him. Right now though, I think it's Dot who needs more of my attention to build up her confidence. >> Don't worry about them--they'll adjust to each other. I think >> separating them now is [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > went into the cello position and licked an incision - and I remembered > that they told me that he was neutered only yesterday. Heh. I saw that video. He is a champion cello positioner! > And at that moment I realized that I had been thinking of him all this > time as an adult - a young adult, but an adult. But he just seemed [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > been through so much today, and he's really only a baby. I have to > protect him, and take care of him. They have both had a big day! > Right now though, I think it's Dot who needs more of my attention to > build up her confidence. Remember Rome was not built in a day. In <gur673d7omea0pqjsjde2o32difaivfk61@4ax.com>, Takayuki <Takayuki9z@yahoo.com> shouted to everyone in earshot, >went into the cello position and licked an incision - and I remembered >that they told me that he was neutered only yesterday. I'm a mostly-lurker, reading with interest here, and unless I've missed something (entirely possible), it looks like no one has really commented on Buster's recent neutering. you may or may not know that he'll have some testosterone in his system for a couple weeks or so, during which time he may have some behaviours that Dot won't care for, possibly including what you described in the post that started this thread and possibly including others that a human might not quite pick up on. I don't know whether you had any preconceived notions about how long you might have to keep them mostly-separated, but you might think about keeping it up for at least two weeks. I went through a vaguely similar thing a year and a half ago or so. I brought a cat in from my yard, found no one to claim him, and then had him neutered, since he hadn't been. before his neutering and for a couple weeks afterward, he was never overly aggressive toward my other three, but if I was letting him roam/interact and he settled down somewhere, he might catch a cat moving around and then have to get up to investigate--not appreciated by said cat, who was wary of him. other times, he'd get into what would start as a tentatively-playful chase, but then he wouldn't back down after cornering the cat in question. never came to blows but didn't exactly endear him to anyone, either. about two weeks after his surgery, that ended quite suddenly, and I only continued the gradual integration for a few more days, as he was getting a bit fed up with his confinement (and loudly so, as he's part meezer). nowadays, he's still nobody's best buddy, but he only rarely has a squabble with any of the others, and when I manage to catch the beginning of it, it doesn't seem that he's usually the one starting it. I hope this helps you in some way. congratulations on the new kits! Jeff -- obligatory cat pics: http://web.mr-happy.com/pets/ > In <gur673d7omea0pqjsjde2o32difaivfk61@4ax.com>, > Takayuki <Takayuki9z@yahoo.com> shouted to everyone in earshot, [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Jeff Doh! I didn't even think of it, but you are right, it could definitely help in a couple of weeks. | jb000002@mr-happy.com (JB) said: | > I'm a mostly-lurker, reading with interest here, and unless I've | > missed something (entirely possible), it looks like no one has really [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | > how long you might have to keep them mostly-separated, but you might | > think about keeping it up for at least two weeks. | Doh! I didn't even think of it, but you are right, it could definitely | help in a couple of weeks. I don't think this advice really applies in Tak's situation, as Buster is only a year old, so he was probably not sexually mature when he was neutered. > | jb000002@mr-happy.com (JB) said: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > only a year old, so he was probably not sexually mature when he was > neutered. Cat's definitely can be sexually mature at one year of age. Female cats have kittens at younger ages than that, and male cats father same kittens at that age. Many unneutered males also start spraying at a much younger age. MaryL >> I don't think this advice really applies in Tak's situation, as Buster is >> only a year old, so he was probably not sexually mature when he was [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >have kittens at younger ages than that, and male cats father same kittens at >that age. Many unneutered males also start spraying at a much younger age. I was surprised when they told me how recently he was neutered, and I asked them if that meant he would spray for a while, and they said that he hasn't sprayed. I'm not all that surprised - he's meticulous with his litterbox habits, although when he goes, it definitely does have a stronger odor to it than I've seen with Dot or Betty. > | jb000002@mr-happy.com (JB) said: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > is only a year old, so he was probably not sexually mature when he was > neutered. I think it is. Cats are well into sexual maturity by even 6 months. He is one and was only just neutered, so I'm pretty sure it will calm him down a bit. >In <gur673d7omea0pqjsjde2o32difaivfk61@4ax.com>, >Takayuki <Takayuki9z@yahoo.com> shouted to everyone in earshot, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >how long you might have to keep them mostly-separated, but you might >think about keeping it up for at least two weeks. You're probably right - I'm sure there are a lot of behaviors and body language there that as a mere hoomin, I just don't pick up on. >I went through a vaguely similar thing a year and a half ago or so. I >brought a cat in from my yard, found no one to claim him, and then had [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >manage to catch the beginning of it, it doesn't seem that he's usually >the one starting it. That sounds a bit like our situation. Buster does like to chase and play, and Dot likes to hide. In fact, she often hides even when she and Buster are separated, but she comes out when I find her and call out to her. :) She stays out in the open as long as I'm in sight. >> In <gur673d7omea0pqjsjde2o32difaivfk61@4ax.com>, >> Takayuki <Takayuki9z@yahoo.com> shouted to everyone in earshot, [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > and Buster are separated, but she comes out when I find her and call > out to her. :) She stays out in the open as long as I'm in sight. She'll get over that. She is still new. I mean the hiding thing. My cats always have to be near me for the most part. They like keeping you in sight. > That sounds a bit like our situation. Buster does like to chase and > play, and Dot likes to hide. In fact, she often hides even when she > and Buster are separated, but she comes out when I find her and call > out to her. :) She stays out in the open as long as I'm in sight. Sounds like she's an expert trainer too - stay with me, be with me, I am helpless without you :D Susan M Otis and Chester > And at that moment I realized that I had been thinking of him all this > time as an adult - a young adult, but an adult. But he just seemed [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > been through so much today, and he's really only a baby. I have to > protect him, and take care of him. That needed a TW Tak - as my 6 yo would say, I have water leaking from my eyes. > Right now though, I think it's Dot who needs more of my attention to > build up her confidence. What a good cat dad you are :-) Susan M Otis and Chester | I'm finding myself calling Burt "Buster", for some reason. :) You've picked up intuitively that kitty names need to be at least two syllables to help them recognize their own names when called. > I'm finding myself calling Burt "Buster", for some reason. :) Because Buster has "told" you his name. Obviously Burt was not his name :) > I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on integrating these two. They > didn't seem to be fighting, but when they meet, what usually happens [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > there all big eyed and unhappy. Dot is such a social and needy cat, > it really pains me to see her hiding! It sounds like Buster is trying to make friends, the fact that he's trying to get close and then lying down is a non-aggressive posture and a cat's way of saying, "I'm not a threat to you, I want to be friends". They're probably making eye contact which makes Dot nervous and she runs, which to a young cat like Buster is an invitation to play. He thinks she wants to play chase! Are you sure Dot is unhappy or are *you* assuming she is unhappy? How long does she stay in her hiding place? I see this type of behavior frequently between Lacey and Barnabus. Usually Barnabus will jump on Lacey, roll her over and then Lacey will growl and hiss and take off running. Barnabus chases her until she finds a hiding place. Then a little later I'll see Barnabus running through the house with Lacey chasing him. With Sam and Hobbes they put on the appearance of truly hating each other. Usually Sam is the aggressor but I've watched Hobbes start a fight as well. Just yesterday, Hobbes was at my feet with his back to the room and Sam came around the corner, saw Hobbes' back and ran...literally, he ran and jumped onto Hobbes' back and bit him. They don't draw blood but they attack each other like this at least once or twice a week. They growl at each other on a daily basis. But when I feed them, they'll eat right next to each other and sometimes I'll go back to the bedroom and find them asleep, 6 inches away from each other, almost touching paws. I realize that Megan has a lot of experience with a lot of different cats and I respect that, but I'm not sure totally separating them is such a good idea. You're giving Buster a chance to establish his own territory in the main part of the house and Dot is going to have only one room. I wouldn't leave them together alone but right now you have two cats who are in a new environment without their own territory. They have a chance to set boundries together. Unless they are literally fighting and hurting each other, give them a chance. Watch their body language. Are their ears pointed forward or back, are their tails up or are the slinking around with their tails to the ground? You are concerned about them, you are tense and over protective. They're going to pick up on that and react. Go to bed and see what happens. You might end up with two cats in bed with you and wake up with two cats curled up next to each other. I'm going to tell you what I was told when I brought Selena home....go slowly, expect occasional hissing and spitting. Give them "time-out" periods if it gets really nasty but try to let them work it out on their own. Remember that Buster is really still a kitten and is going to want to play harder than Dot. Do you have a laser light or any other type of interactive toy? A cat-chaser or whatever the fishing pole toy is called? Even a piece of string. Something they can both concentrate on and play with that will give them an opportunity to interact with each other and with you at the same time. Hand out treats at the same time so they're eating near each other. These are just some of my ideas and opinions. I realize I've only integrated five cats, not as many as others in this group but I have been successful and we all live in relative peace and everyone seems happy. Good luck, take your time and RELAX! Hugs and headbutts, Julie, Hobbes, Lacey, Sam and Barnabus ps: Barnabus wants to know what is wrong with being on the counter? How else is an inquisitive boy cat supposed to learn what his slave is doing? (Seriously, when Barnabus jumps onto the counter I gently push him off so that he has to jump down and at the same time telling him he's not supposed to be on the counter. Over time this has worked. He will occasionally still jump up onto the counter but jumps right back down when I turn to look at him.) With Sam > and Hobbes they put on the appearance of truly hating each other. > Usually Sam is the aggressor but I've watched Hobbes start a fight as [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > to the bedroom and find them asleep, 6 inches away from each other, > almost touching paws. Sorry about replying to myself but I did want to mention that interestingly enough, every time one or the other of my "big boys" is sick, they don't fight. When Sam had his surgery to remove the tumor last October not once did Hobbes take advantage of Sam's inability to defend himself. When Hobbes recently had the trouble with the abscess on his bottom, Sam reacted the same way. Not once did Sam attack Hobbes. They would even go so far as to touch noses as if to check on the condition of the other. Julie >It sounds like Buster is trying to make friends, the fact that he's >trying to get close and then lying down is a non-aggressive posture [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >or are *you* assuming she is unhappy? How long does she stay in her >hiding place? I've seen her happy, and I've seen her afraid, so I'm pretty sure she doesn't see it as a game. She does hiss and growl at Buster. Buster's hackles were up when he first met Dot, but then he seemed to relax and like her a little better. Dot didn't change though. :) I'm finding it easier to read Dot than Buster at the moment. Dot looks a bit like Betty, and has quite a few of her mannerisms too. She's also the age that Betty would have been if she were still alive. I'm sure it's coincidence, but I even wondered if they were littermates. >I realize that Megan has a lot of experience >with a lot of different cats and I respect that, but I'm not sure [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >without their own territory. They have a chance to set boundries >together. That's what I was hoping for initially. Maybe I can change tactics later to rotate them more frequently or set up controlled meetings to try to keep the territory neutral. I figured that worst comes to worst, one cat would dominate the main area, and then I'd simply have to fall back on the protocol for introducing a new cat to an incumbent cat. I'm really hoping it won't go that route though. >ps: Barnabus wants to know what is wrong with being on the counter? >How else is an inquisitive boy cat supposed to learn what his slave is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >He will occasionally still jump up onto the counter but jumps right >back down when I turn to look at him.) I've just been picking them up and putting them down on the floor. :) > I've seen her happy, and I've seen her afraid, so I'm pretty sure she > doesn't see it as a game. No, Lacey doesn't see it as a game either but Barnabus thinks she's playing. I'm not sure it's a game when she chases him, but again, he enjoys it so who am I to argue with the feline way of thinking? :) Julie >> I've seen her happy, and I've seen her afraid, so I'm pretty sure she >> doesn't see it as a game. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Julie That's pretty much how Sugar and Pearl play too. They seem to enjoy it now. The only rule is "no touchy". But Sugar hisses when cornered and Pearl doesn't exactly back off immediately, but does sit and look smug. Then she turns and leaves. Or she chases Sugar like hell on fire and breaks off to go furiously claw a cat pole. It's odd, but they seem to enjoy it. >> It sounds like Buster is trying to make friends, the fact that he's >> trying to get close and then lying down is a non-aggressive posture [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > to fall back on the protocol for introducing a new cat to an incumbent > cat. I'm really hoping it won't go that route though. They do not sound like they are enemies that need to be always separated. Merelly figuring it out. You definitely want some controlled meetings or they won't figure it out. >> ps: Barnabus wants to know what is wrong with being on the counter? >> How else is an inquisitive boy cat supposed to learn what his slave is [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I've just been picking them up and putting them down on the floor. :) It should be enough. >> That's what I was hoping for initially. Maybe I can change tactics >> later to rotate them more frequently or set up controlled meetings to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >separated. Merelly figuring it out. You definitely want some controlled >meetings or they won't figure it out. I'll try to give them more opportunities to see each other without them getting into chases. What I've been doing initially is keeping the door open a crack when Dot is in the den and Buster is in the main area. This is because Buster isn't afraid of Dot, so he'll come right up to the crack out of curiosity. I haven't been keeping it open when Dot is in the main area, because if she happens to see Buster while she's in such a large area, she gets all nervous and will hide far away from the door. I was doing this last night, and I didn't get much sleep! First, I slept with Dot. She turned out to be an under-cover kitty. When I invited her in after she had been headbutting my face for a while, she gladly took the offer, rested her head on my shoulder, and purred so loud! Much of the time, our sleep was interrupted by Buster crying and pawing through door, which was left open about an inch. Finally, I decided to switch them, and I groggily let Buster in. Dot hissed, and I picked her up, deposited her in the living room, gave her some reassurance and scritches, and went back to bed. Buster kept up a murping, trilling commentary as he reacquainted himself with the room. He came to me nudging my hand for pets, and finally climbed on top of my chest and lay down. Later he moved down to my left side and curled up in the crook of my arm, and then eventually moved down to the cat bed. >>> That's what I was hoping for initially. Maybe I can change tactics >>> later to rotate them more frequently or set up controlled meetings to [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > side and curled up in the crook of my arm, and then eventually moved down > to the cat bed. Day (night) No. 2 sounds like a success. Remember, it took 7 (?) days to create the earth (according to scriptures). Just be patient and give it time. New mothers of bare children are told to nap when they nap. God luck. MLB >> Buster kept up a murping, trilling commentary as he reacquainted himself >> with the room. He came to me nudging my hand for pets, and finally [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >time. New mothers of bare children are told to nap when they nap. God >luck. MLB Actually, that was night #1 - today is night #2. :) After doing some housekeeping in the living room, I reclined in the couch, and called Buster over. He trilled and jumped up. After getting on my lap and fidgeting for a while, he fell asleep, stretched out. I never had a tabby before, and from my angle, he looked like a comatose badger. :) After about a half hour with him on my lap, I decided I should go to bed, and woke him up. I tried to relocate him to the side, on the couch, but the cheeky little guy just kept trying to climb back on to my lap. I said to him, "I'm sorry, but I have to go to bed now with Dot." And now I hear him crying in the other room. I want to be there for them both when they need me, not just for one or the other - and I want so much for them to get along, so that that can happen. > I said to him, "I'm sorry, but I have to go to bed now with Dot." And > now I hear him crying in the other room. I want to be there for them > both when they need me, not just for one or the other - and I want so > much for them to get along, so that that can happen. When I got Miranda, she would sneak into my bed at night and get under the covers and snuggle up to me. I'm not sure that Frank and Nikki even realized the intruder was in the same bed as them (except when Frank was sleeping on the pillow next to mine, and a tiny grey paw would shoot out from under the covers to catch his tail every now and then).  SignatureMarina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. >>> Buster kept up a murping, trilling commentary as he reacquainted himself >>> with the room. He came to me nudging my hand for pets, and finally [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > both when they need me, not just for one or the other - and I want so > much for them to get along, so that that can happen. When I adopted Duffy and went through a fairly long introduction period (longer than you will probably need -- as explained in another of my messages), I alternated bedrooms. I had Duffy in the guest bedroom (with the temporary door after a week), and I would alternate sleeping in my own bedroom -- where Holly could join me -- and the guest room -- where Duffy could be my companion. MaryL >>> Buster kept up a murping, trilling commentary as he reacquainted himself >>> with the room. He came to me nudging my hand for pets, and finally [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > both when they need me, not just for one or the other - and I want so > much for them to get along, so that that can happen. Jake and Molly are not bestest buddies. And our bed is Jake's territory. This usually isn't a problem as Molly likes the grandsons better and will sleep with one of them if she can. Also except for the boys, Molly doesn't display any affection with me and seldom with Charlie. She will only play with me when their food bowl is empty or there is something else she wants. But if the boys are gone, she will wait till we all seem to be asleep and sneek onto our bed for the night. She's even been known to fall asleep and start to cuddle. We all try very hard to pretend not to know she is there. Even Jake. Not always easy as she sleeps on my legs. Jo >>>> Buster kept up a murping, trilling commentary as he reacquainted himself >>>> with the room. He came to me nudging my hand for pets, and finally [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Jo It's funny. The bed was the FIRST place that Grant, Sugar and Pearl worked out on their own. They each had their own spot and that was that. Sleeping at night was almost never a problem. I wonder why they sorted taht out nearly immediately? > It's funny. The bed was the FIRST place that Grant, Sugar and Pearl > worked out on their own. They each had their own spot and that was > that. Sleeping at night was almost never a problem. I wonder why they > sorted taht out nearly immediately? I don't know, but as I wrote in another post, that is the case at my place, too. Joyce >>>Buster kept up a murping, trilling commentary as he reacquainted himself >>>with the room. He came to me nudging my hand for pets, and finally [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > both when they need me, not just for one or the other - and I want so > much for them to get along, so that that can happen. Tak, with your situation -- bringing 2 kitties home to neutral territory, I would not separate them. If you see signs of overt hostility, and I mean more than an occasional hiss, maybe they do need separation -- but I think you are in the perfect situation to get them to be buddies. Cats need some time to work things out, but you don't have a resident cat who feels this is his or her territory. Rhonda >Tak, with your situation -- bringing 2 kitties home to neutral >territory, I would not separate them. If you see signs of overt [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Cats need some time to work things out, but you don't have a resident >cat who feels this is his or her territory. I'd really *like* to put them together - no more keeping separate feeding and litter areas, no more going back and forth between rooms while making sure no cat gets past - that would be so easy! I'm sure they wouldn't kill each other, but I seem to have made a bad match here with this pair, so I'm really at a loss. A few minutes ago, I tried feeding them both wet food, with the dishes only about a foot apart, on either side of a door opened just a couple of inches. Dot growled while eating, and Buster meowed. Then, Buster tried to whap Dot through the crack in the door! Dot ran and hissed, and I closed up the door an inch and comforted Dot for a while. Their dynamic is just bad. Buster likes to chase, bat, and play, and Dot likes to growl, hiss, and hide from Buster. Since Dot won't physically challenge Buster, I don't see a violent confrontation, so it probably won't be a huge setback, but Dot would feel unhappy. But obviously, if I just keep them separated, there will never be any progress that way either - so I may try opening up the door for a few minutes today and follow them closely and see how they interact, before separating them again. I wonder if anyone else has any ideas? >> Tak, with your situation -- bringing 2 kitties home to neutral >> territory, I would not separate them. If you see signs of overt [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > minutes today and follow them closely and see how they interact, > before separating them again. I wonder if anyone else has any ideas? Seriously though Tak, that's how I did it with Pearl and Grant and Sugar. Just a few minutes a day. Then the minute Pearl started winding up but *before* chasing began, I would scoop her up and separate. If you are consistant, the time will get longer and longer. Dot will get braver and Buster will get "Oh, if I do THAT we get separated". Or like when Grant and Sugar were little and wrestling got out of hand, I would separate them as SOON as I heard noise. What happened there was they learned to wrestle in silence, and then I knew for sure if noise happened it was too rough, but they *also* knew they crossed a line when that happened. It's not a loss and if cats integrated immediately all the time, no one would have come up with all this stuff :D They have only been together 3 days. The only cats I ever knew that took to each other that quickly were my Amigo and my roommates cat Max and that was just strange. > Their dynamic is just bad. Buster likes to chase, bat, and play, and > Dot likes to growl, hiss, and hide from Buster. Since Dot won't > physically challenge Buster, I don't see a violent confrontation, so > it probably won't be a huge setback, but Dot would feel unhappy. My Muriel and Zeke were like that when they first met - Muriel was 2 and already living with me, Zeke was about 4 months. The main point of dispute was Muriel's tail, which Zeke regarded as his own personal cat toy, and the more annoyed Muriel got about it the more she thrashed it, so the more interesting it got as a toy... it took about two weeks for them to sort that one out. > A few minutes ago, I tried feeding them both wet food, with the > dishes only about a foot apart, on either side of a door opened > just a couple of inches. Dot growled while eating, and Buster > meowed. Then, Buster tried to whap Dot through the crack in the > door! What I did for many years was just to put down one more food bowl than we had cats, and spread them out a few feet apart at the same time. That way there'd be nothing much to argue about; one might chase another away from a bowl, but there'd be another one in plain sight. It often looked like musical chairs. ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ============== Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760 <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975 stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557 > The main > point of dispute was Muriel's tail, which Zeke regarded as his own > personal cat toy, and the more annoyed Muriel got about it the more > she thrashed it, so the more interesting it got as a toy... Isn't it unfortunate that it seems to happen that way? :) > What I did for many years was just to put down one more food bowl > than we had cats, and spread them out a few feet apart at the same > time. That's a great idea! I never thought of doing that. I feed my cats in very different places. Smudge often eats on one of the kitchen counters. And if I put Lysine into Roxy's food, she gets fed in the computer room with the door closed. (Partly to keep the other cats from eating Roxy's medicine, and partly to keep Roxy from getting distracted by the other kitties' food and then not eating hers.) But even when I feed Roxy out in the open, she often eats in the living room with Licky. It's not that much of a pain to feed them in different places. Joyce | >Tak, with your situation -- bringing 2 kitties home to neutral | >territory, I would not separate them. If you see signs of overt [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] | minutes today and follow them closely and see how they interact, | before separating them again. I wonder if anyone else has any ideas? You're trying to micro-manage them and that is definitely not going to help them get to be friends. If I were in your position I would LET THEM WORK IT OUT. Only intervene if they actually start to fight. And I don't mean hissing and growling, or even swatting at one another. Those are perfectly normal interactions between strange cats! It does not mean they are going to be enemies for life unless you keep them separate. In doing that, you keep them from going through the process of becoming friends. Let them both sleep on your bed with you! To do otherwise is tp virtually guarantee that they will become jealous rivals. > You're trying to micro-manage them and that is definitely not going to help > them get to be friends. If I were in your position I would LET THEM WORK IT [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > on your bed with you! To do otherwise is tp virtually guarantee that they > will become jealous rivals. I agree. As I was told many years ago when I introduced Betsy to Mandy, it is a bad idea to act as a kind of kitty referee! Both then and last year, when I indtroduced Sam to Mandy, I was introducing a new cat to a very territorial and well-established resident cat, and I had far more violent interactions than you have had! What worked for me was keeping them separated initially - but not for long, on the order of days - and sometimes switching them back and forth between areas so they became used to each other's scent. Then, I separated them only when I was at work. Any time I was home, both had the run of the place. There was some chasing and wrestling and yowling, but I resisted the temptation to break it up and incarcerate the cat who seemed to be the aggressor. With Sam and Mandy, I had to travel during the introduction, and the cat sitter panicked a bit, isolated Mandy to 'protect' her (she was the smaller cat and quite possibly got pounced on, but we're talking about a cat who is confident about taking on Rotties, not some little scaredy cat) , and put the whole process back a week or so. But a few weeks later, things had settled down to a point at which I didn't keep them apart at all, and they now sleep on the same bed, and only very rarely get annoyed at each other. That's introducing an adult cat unused to indoor life to another adult cat who considered the indoors her personal empire. If I were introducing two cats used to shelter life (ie other animals around) to a space with no resident cats, I'd just make sure they knew wither the food and litter was, and let them settle things themselves without any isolation or switching of territories. SignatureCheryl Dear Tak, Am 17.06.2007 schrieb Takayuki: > But obviously, if I just keep them separated, there will never be any > progress that way either - so I may try opening up the door for a few > minutes today and follow them closely and see how they interact, > before separating them again. I wonder if anyone else has any ideas? I would not separate them. Please keep in mind, that Dot never gets the chance to discover the whole house and that you give Buster an advantage. They are both new to your home and need some time to get used to their new situation. I'm sure they will sort it out in no time in case you let them. The hissing and hiding from Dot will stop after a few days and Buster will learn how far he can go with Dot. I understand that you think Dot is unhappy. But that is what _you_ think. Please give them a chance to get settled. It would have an advantage for you too:-) You don't have to time your life between both cats anymore. Another advantage would be, that each cat could come to you whenever it wants to. And who knows? One day you wake up having both kitties in your bed:-) Purrs to you Inge and the catgang SignatureCatManiacs World: http://www.gwsystems.com/inge > I would not separate them. Please keep in mind, that Dot never gets > the chance to discover the whole house and that you give Buster an > advantage. They are both new to your home and need some time to get > used to their new situation. Or, what about alternating who gets the whole house and who gets the single room? I know that Buster is younger and needs to run around, but I agree that Dot should get the chance to explore the whole house, unencumbered by Buster's pestering. That would also give her the opportunity to carve out some territory for herself. Otherwise, it will always feel like Buster's territory, which gives him an advantage - something I don't think he needs in this situation. Joyce >>Tak, with your situation -- bringing 2 kitties home to neutral >>territory, I would not separate them. If you see signs of overt [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > minutes today and follow them closely and see how they interact, > before separating them again. I wonder if anyone else has any ideas? Tak, Please don't assume that you have made a poor choice or that the dynamics are poor. It is much too early to come to that conclusion. That is part of the reason I kept recommending that you go very slowly and proceed with caution. After all, what is the big hurry? What are we going to do with an extra day or an extra week? You and the kitties will have a lifetime together, so don't add to their stress by trying to rush into things. And, remember, it is *normal* for them to feel stress at this time. They have come from a shelter, and that is stressful in itself. They are being taken to a new home. That will eventually be a wonderful change for them, but they don't know that yet. And they are being brought into strange surroundings where there is another strange cat waiting. So, why add to their stress (and yours)? I realize that "instant introductions" sometimes work well, but you apparently are already seeing some of the results that can occur if we move too rapidly. You said you tried to get them to eat close together but on separate plates. That's good, but it's too soon. Give them their space and gradually work on bringing them together. I would also suggest that you give Dot the run of the house and give Buster a room of his own for awhile. Dot is older and more shy, so it will be to her advantage if she is seen more as the "resident cat." Buster is younger, more aggressive, and will probably adapt more quickly to his new surroundings. Don't try to give them a view of each other yet by cracking the door. Let them adjust to their environment first. Each will certainly be aware of the existence of the other, but cats often become agitated when they see a strange cat. Let them move around the house *separately,* learn their new home, and mix their scents. And keep two or three Feliway diffusers plugged in! Good luck with all this, but please try not to lost patience - either with yourself or with the situation - after such a brief period of time. Give it some time, lavish attention on both of them, and it *will* work out. Believe me, I have had experience both with the consequences of trying to move too quickly and with the wonderful results of a "take your time" approach. MaryL > I'm sure they wouldn't kill each other, but I seem to have made a bad > match here with this pair, so I'm really at a loss. I think it's too soon to know whether it's a bad match. Things might change in the next week or two. I would keep at it for at least another couple of weeks to see if they calm down. He's a young guy, and it could just be that his kitten energy is more than she feels like dealing with. Remember that he will outgrow this. Joyce > I said to him, "I'm sorry, but I have to go to bed now with Dot." And > now I hear him crying in the other room. I want to be there for them > both when they need me, not just for one or the other - and I want so > much for them to get along, so that that can happen. Going to sleep at night might be the one time you can let them be together for an extended period. At least, in my house, that is the main time that peace reigns supreme. The lion lies down with the, uh, smaller lion. :) I will usually wake up during the night to find all 3 sleeping peacefully on my bed. It's good to keep them separated when you're out, and maybe let them have brief introductions while you're supervising. But it might work out nicely to let them both sleep with you - try it and see if it works! Joyce > I'm finding myself calling Burt "Buster", for some reason. :) Then that's probably his real name. > I also notice that these two are much cheekier than Betty was. They > both want to be on my desk when I'm on the computer, and on the > counter when I'm in the kitchen. I hope that's just a phase. :) Caliban has always been a counter cat. He just needs to check out everything I do. Mostly I have to push his nose out of whatever I'm handling on the counter. It never even crossed my mind to try and keep him off the counter. It doesn't bother me that he's there. He often even sleeps there. > By the way, here's a video clip of Burt/Buster/whatever-his-name-is at > the shelter: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmhdr0xR2Qc Now that I see him move, he does look a lot like Caliban. He has many of the same moves. When you couldn't see his face at the beginning, he looked exactly like Caliban doing the cello. SignatureMarina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. >> I'm finding myself calling Burt "Buster", for some reason. :) > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >the same moves. When you couldn't see his face at the beginning, he >looked exactly like Caliban doing the cello. What a darling face! And those thumbs just kill me. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh Make Levees, Not War > I'm finding myself calling Burt "Buster", for some reason. :) > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > hoomin reassurance, whereas Buster seems to have a better developed > sense of entitlement. It's important to introduce them slowly and also to spend quite a bit of time with each one (separately). Some cats can simply be put together, but that is a *huge* mistake if they do not "take" to each other. That can actually delay the process of integration. You have two cats that are strangers to each other and are also being brought into an entirely new environment, so I would encourage you to take a very slow and cautious approach. I adopted Duffy at a time when I thought I could not have a second cat because Holly had always been so aggressive toward any other cats. I also followed Megan's advice -- to a "T" -- and it worked beautifully. It took a full 6 weeks before I left the two of them together at all times. I would not expect it to take that long for yours because mine were both adult cats and Holly had "owned" me for several years. I am going to attach links under my sig to a "pictorial history" of the way I introduced Holly and Duffy. Concatulations on the new adoptions! I was really excited to see that you now have two new furbabies to take over ownership of your heart. MaryL Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") On Jun 16, 9:40?am, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote: > > I'm finding myself calling Burt "Buster", for some reason. :) > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Tak, you have kitties! MaryL's advice sounds good. Be gradual. Was Dot an only cat? How long was she in her previous home? She might be missing her past home. Love her and she'll bond with you. Burt/Buster is adorable. You could make him a box condo like I have for Spicey. With a young cat you need to have an interesting envoirnment. Suz&Spicey >Tak, you have kitties! MaryL's advice sounds good. Be gradual. Was Dot >an only cat? How long was she in her previous home? She might be >missing her past home. Love her and she'll bond with you. I was told that in her previous home she lived with six other cats, or that she was one of a household of six cats. But she seems to me to be a hoomin-needy, hiss-at-other-kitties, only-cat type. >Burt/Buster is adorable. You could make him a box condo like I have >for Spicey. With a young cat you need to have an interesting >envoirnment. He's a total catnip fiend, and loves playing with the cat dancer. :) Also, both cats actually like the scratching post I had for Betty that she *never* used. >> Tak, you have kitties! MaryL's advice sounds good. Be gradual. Was Dot >> an only cat? How long was she in her previous home? She might be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that she was one of a household of six cats. But she seems to me to > be a hoomin-needy, hiss-at-other-kitties, only-cat type. She just has to reorient. We women have our little rituals. >> Burt/Buster is adorable. You could make him a box condo like I have >> for Spicey. With a young cat you need to have an interesting [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Also, both cats actually like the scratching post I had for Betty that > she *never* used. >It's important to introduce them slowly and also to spend quite a bit of >time with each one (separately). Some cats can simply be put together, but [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) >http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") I was just wishing that I had a screen on my door like what you had with your two. You did your introduction so much more elaborately and thoroughly than has anyone else I've heard of. Right now, I'm keeping them pretty much isolated, but I do want to give them some opportunities to interact, so as not to lose that window of opportunity when neither of them have a strong territorial claim to the house yet. >>It's important to introduce them slowly and also to spend quite a bit of >>time with each one (separately). Some cats can simply be put together, [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > opportunity when neither of them have a strong territorial claim to > the house yet. The screen door was temporary. I bought a damaged door at the hardware (*very cheap* because of the damage) and a man who does lots of "handyman" work for me cut out a hole and covered it with the type of metal-mesh frame that is often used as a kickplate on the bottom of screen doors. We used the same hardware (doorknob and hinges) that were on the permanent door, and I leaned the permanent door against a wall to keep it for use after the two cats were "at home" together." After the intro process was complete, we just reversed everything -- took down the temporary door, exchanged the hardware, and replaced the permanent door. The temporary door is stored in my attic, in case I need it again sometime. The whole thing was very inexpensive. If I had not found the damaged wood door, I would simply have bought the cheapest screen door available and used that. The door I used really looked nice because it was actually an unfinished interior door, but an el cheapo screen door would have been just as functional. MaryL > "Takayuki" <Takayuki9z@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > I was just wishing that I had a screen on my door like what you had > > with your two. > The screen door was temporary. I bought a damaged door at the hardware > (*very cheap* because of the damage) and a man who does lots of "handyman" > work for me cut out a hole and covered it with the type of metal-mesh frame > that is often used as a kickplate on the bottom of screen doors. > ...If I had not found the damaged wood door, I would simply have > bought the cheapest screen door available and used that. What a *great* idea. I never thought of that! Of course, let's hope I have the sense not to get into a situation where I am introducing a *fourth* cat into my small apartment. :) But in the future, when I do decide to adopt again, that idea might come in handy. As I've posted here before, I took great pains to introduce Roxy and Smudge the right way, and they were really close buddies for years. But I didn't take any care at all when I brought in Licky, because he was just supposed to be a foster, after all <eyeroll>. And as a result, he and Smudge have had a contentious relationship ever since. At least, I think that's the reason. It certainly didn't help! I still recommend Feliway. Things have definitely calmed down around here! Joyce > > "Takayuki" <Takayuki9z@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Joyce Yes! Feliway is a great help in situations like this, or for any situation where kitties seem to have "frayed nerves." I still keep some on hand just in case it's needed. I no longer need it for anything routine, but I did get it out one day when Holly began to react to a neighbor cat in the yard and took it out on little Duffy -- she gave him a couple of swats, I put them in separate rooms for a short time and plugged in the Feliway. It definitely had a calming effect. MaryL >> I still recommend Feliway. Things have definitely calmed down around >> here! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >them in separate rooms for a short time and plugged in the Feliway. It >definitely had a calming effect. I've always been unsure of Feliway, since I haven't heard anyone cite any double-blind studies on its efficacy, but I've just gotten a diffuser, and we'll see how it goes. Right now it's in the main room near the den, but since the door is usually closed between the two areas, I wonder if that means I need to buy a second one? | I've always been unsure of Feliway, since I haven't heard anyone cite | any double-blind studies on its efficacy, but I've just gotten a | diffuser, and we'll see how it goes. Right now it's in the main room | near the den, but since the door is usually closed between the two | areas, I wonder if that means I need to buy a second one? If the room is usually closed off, that means the cats won't be in there, so there's no point in using Feliway in that room. There's also no point in keeping the cats apart when you have Feliway in the house, because it keeps them from fighting. > | I've always been unsure of Feliway, since I haven't heard anyone cite > | any double-blind studies on its efficacy, but I've just gotten a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > the > house, because it keeps them from fighting. There are *very good* reasons for keeping the cats apart during the introduction period. Feliway is very helpful, but it isn't a cure-all and isn't a substitute for good assessment techniques. MaryL > There are *very good* reasons for keeping the cats apart during > the introduction period. We tried the keeping-them-apart thing when we introduced Muriel to the household. The result was that it took years for her and Ishmael to get along. Every other time, we've just let them get on with it, letting them have the run of the whole house with no attempt whatever at keeping the new arrival apart, and they've settled down in a week or two. I don't think humans can ever know enough about cat psychology to try manipulative stuff with any hope of it succeeding. Let them be themselves. They've evolved to be social animals. ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ============== Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760 <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975 stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557 I think that keeping them apart gives them the impression that something creepy and dangerous is in that closed room, or outside of it, depending on which cat's view. Nanny >> There are *very good* reasons for keeping the cats apart during >> the introduction period. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 > 557 >I think that keeping them apart gives them the impression that something >creepy and dangerous is in that closed room, or outside of it, depending on >which cat's view. > > Nanny Not at all -- at least, not that I could ever tell. I'm not sure that any of us can actually "read" a cat's mind, but there is a *great deal* of literature that supports the view that cats should be separated when a new cat is brought into the hom and then gradually introduced. I also have my own personal experience (where my Holly previously was "the black tornado" when confronted with another cat but gradually grew to accept Duffy), and I have relied on the advice of experts in animal behavior (who also advocated gradual introduction). MaryL | I have relied on advice of experts in animal behavior (who advocated | gradual introduction). But Tak has a different situation altogether. He has not brought a new cat into a home where an existing cat already lives. > | I have relied on advice of experts in animal behavior (who advocated > | gradual introduction). > > But Tak has a different situation altogether. He has not brought a new cat > into a home where an existing cat already lives. No, but he's bringing two cats into an entirely new environment, and they are cats that are not familiar with each other. It's better to go slow and cautious than to go full speed ahead and risk conflicts. I would expect that "slow and cautious" in Tak's case will take much less time than it did for Holly. MaryL > | I have relied on advice of experts in animal behavior (who advocated > | gradual introduction). > > But Tak has a different situation altogether. He has not brought a new cat > into a home where an existing cat already lives. Yes, I think that is the BIG difference here. They may even quickly learn to rely on each other for comfort in a brand new situation like this. Rhonda > Not at all -- at least, not that I could ever tell. I'm not sure that any > of us can actually "read" a cat's mind, but there is a *great deal* of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > have relied on the advice of experts in animal behavior (who also advocated > gradual introduction). As you say, we can't know what goes on in cats' heads. I didn't introduce Miranda slowly, but just let her lose. Nikki had built up a reputation of hating all other cats, and she did hiss at Mir at first, but eventually she was the first to start playing with Mir. Frank kept his distance until after Nikki died. I firmly believe in the 'let them work it out' method. Nikki never hurt Mir, though she sounded scary, and Mir was afraid of her at first. SignatureMarina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. That's what I mean, Marina, I want to let them work it out together, be it cat or ferret. I must say I had more problems with ferrets that I had to separate, to the point that they had separate cages, than with cats. Nanny >> Not at all -- at least, not that I could ever tell. I'm not sure that >> any of us can actually "read" a cat's mind, but there is a *great deal* [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Nikki never hurt Mir, though she sounded scary, and Mir was afraid of her > at first. > That's what I mean, Marina, I want to let them work it out together, be it > cat or ferret. I must say I had more problems with ferrets that I had to > separate, to the point that they had separate cages, than with cats. > > Nanny///// When I introduced Barney the Ferret to Gertie Ferret, I put them into a neutral crate and plastered the pair of them with Ferretone. They were so busy licking the ferretone off themselves and each other, that they totally forgot that they had never met before and were pretty much inseperable straight away. The only problem is that Barney forgets he's twice the size of Gertie, and is prone to jumping on her to make her play. Helen M LOL, my Jimmy is a large one too, and he drags the females around sometimes, but in the end the females always win :-) Nanny >> That's what I mean, Marina, I want to let them work it out together, be >> it [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Helen M >> Not at all -- at least, not that I could ever tell. I'm not sure that >> any of us can actually "read" a cat's mind, but there is a *great deal* [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Nikki never hurt Mir, though she sounded scary, and Mir was afraid of her > at first. This often works, and I wouldn't argue otherwise. The problem is, if it doesn't work -- and that is frequent -- then the process has been set back *significantly,* and sometimes it will be impossible to achieve a smooth transition. By contrast, a separation (often just a brief separation is all that is needed) is an extra level of caution and will not adversely affect the relationship. MaryL >>There are *very good* reasons for keeping the cats apart during >>the introduction period. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > to try manipulative stuff with any hope of it succeeding. Let > them be themselves. They've evolved to be social animals. I agree! Rhonda >>> I still recommend Feliway. Things have definitely calmed down around >>> here! [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > near the den, but since the door is usually closed between the two > areas, I wonder if that means I need to buy a second one? Here's a link to a study done by researchers at The Ohio State University: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/11/001129074611.htm I would recommend that you use at least two diffusers, and place them in the areas that are most frequently used by your cats. Do not put them behind draperies or furniture -- use an outlet that is in as "open" an area as possible. MaryL On Jun 16, 2:24 pm, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote: > > I was just wishing that I had a screen on my door like what you had > > with your two. You did your introduction so much more elaborately and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > that is often used as a kickplate on the bottom of screen doors. We used > the same hardware (doorknob and hinges) that were on the permanent door, and Tak, I've done something similar with Lacey, Sam and Barnabus although not as elaborate. I bought a window screen for about $14. It fits over the door and is tall enough that they can't go over. Since I didn't want to take a chance of someone going through the screen during the day when I was away I would close the wooden door when I was at work and then when I came home I'd open the bedroom door, put the window screen in place and duct tape it to the door frame. This also offered me the opportunity to "divide" the house after a week or so. I moved the screen to the doorway between the sleeping part of the house and the living part of the house so that the new cat has three bedrooms and two baths and the older cats had the family room, dining room and kitchen. Julie > On Jun 16, 2:24 pm, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Julie This arrangement would depend on the age of the cats and how agile they are. That would *never* keep Holly out because she is so agile that she can scale anything. She makes a leap to the mantel seem completely effortless! For that matter, Duffy would probably have climbed right over -- he may be blind, but he's like a little gymnast. But it would be a great idea for kittens. MaryL >> Tak, I've done something similar with Lacey, Sam and Barnabus although >> not as elaborate. I bought a window screen for about $14. It fits [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >blind, but he's like a little gymnast. But it would be a great idea for >kittens. Dot, who is by far the older and chubbier of the two, has leapt from the floor to the top of the refrigerator with one standing jump! It makes me wonder what the limber Buster might be capable of. >>> Tak, I've done something similar with Lacey, Sam and Barnabus although >>> not as elaborate. I bought a window screen for about $14. It fits [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > the floor to the top of the refrigerator with one standing jump! It > makes me wonder what the limber Buster might be capable of. Wow. That is impressive!! None of my cats have leapt more than 5 feet and that was horizontally not vertically!! > >> Tak, I've done something similar with Lacey, Sam and Barnabus although > >> not as elaborate. I bought a window screen for about $14. It fits [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > the floor to the top of the refrigerator with one standing jump! It > makes me wonder what the limber Buster might be capable of.- Hide quoted text - Wow, Dot has excellent cat math. I don't think anyone here has ever jumped on top of the fridge. (at least not when I was looking)...That's a pretty high jump from the floor. Sherry >> >> Tak, I've done something similar with Lacey, Sam and Barnabus although >> >> not as elaborate. I bought a window screen for about $14. It fits [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Sherry Holly does that. She jumps to incredible heights, at least by my standards. She has jumped to and casually sat on the top of a bifold closet door (with just a bound from the floor, nothing to help), jumps to the mantle, flies to the top of an 8-ft. bookcase (but here she first gets on the TV stand), and then jumps from one bookcase to another. If I could do something comparable, I think I would be leaping over buildings! MaryL One thing that can help is to get some of Dot's scent on Buster. The area on a cat in front of the ear where the fur is a little thin is a scent gland. That's why you will see a cat rubbing its face on things. Its a "nicer" way of marking what is theirs. They also like to have those spots rubbed when you a petting them. So when you are spending time with Dot, rub your thumbs over those areas. Then rub them on Buster, who sounds like he would be available as always. I've had good luck with this. Jo > I'm finding myself calling Burt "Buster", for some reason. :) > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > hoomin reassurance, whereas Buster seems to have a better developed > sense of entitlement. |
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