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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / July 2007

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SERIOUS Eeek-thud-ness

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jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 14 Jun 2007 19:58 GMT
Not a cat, but the cuteness is still overwhelming:

http://mfrost.typepad.com/cute_overload/2007/06/some_days_in_th.html

Joyce
GaDragonfly - 14 Jun 2007 20:55 GMT
On Jun 14, 2:58 pm, jXwXeXrXmXoX...@sonic.net wrote:
> Not a cat, but the cuteness is still overwhelming:
>
> http://mfrost.typepad.com/cute_overload/2007/06/some_days_in_th.html
>
> Joyce

How adorable! I figured it out from the Day 2 pictures but then we had
one born in Atlanta recently and I've followed all the pictures.
Amazing how an animal so large can have such a small baby!

Julie
Kreisleriana - 14 Jun 2007 22:54 GMT
>Julie

Don't miss the hovertexts!

Theresa
Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh

Make Levees, Not War
Marina - 15 Jun 2007 03:45 GMT
> Don't miss the hovertexts!

Oh, thanks for pointing that out! I missed them the first time. ROFL!

Signature

Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.

jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 15 Jun 2007 09:34 GMT
>> Don't miss the hovertexts!

> Oh, thanks for pointing that out! I missed them the first time. ROFL!

I love the third picture, the one where the hovertext says "Quit squeezin,
lady". It looks like a toy! I'm looking at it, wondering what on earth it
could be - it looks like some kind of mole. But really, it looks like a
toy. :)

And "Day 25, Encore" - look at those CLAWS!

Joyce
Kreisleriana - 14 Jun 2007 22:49 GMT
>http://mfrost.typepad.com/cute_overload/2007/06/some_days_in_th.html

Oh my!!!!!

Theresa
Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh

Make Levees, Not War
Marina - 15 Jun 2007 03:42 GMT
> Not a cat, but the cuteness is still overwhelming:
>
> http://mfrost.typepad.com/cute_overload/2007/06/some_days_in_th.html

It is! Day 35 with the tongue showing - awwwwww!

Signature

Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.

Yowie - 15 Jun 2007 11:50 GMT
>> Not a cat, but the cuteness is still overwhelming:
>>
>> http://mfrost.typepad.com/cute_overload/2007/06/some_days_in_th.html
>
> It is! Day 35 with the tongue showing - awwwwww!

Adorable!

So does anyone know about the Panda evolutionary path? Just wondering
because a creature that is born so small and helpless is more like a
marsupial rather than a full grown mammal. Marsupials are born tiny, blind
and hairless, and do alot of their growing in the pouch, attached to the
nipple that is there. I don't know about regular bear cubs, but said panda
cub looks so small blind and helpless it reminds me more of a marsupial
young'en rather than a mammal.

Just curious.

Yowie
Jack Campin - bogus address - 15 Jun 2007 12:06 GMT
> So does anyone know about the Panda evolutionary path? Just wondering
> because a creature that is born so small and helpless is more like a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> cubs, but said panda cub looks so small blind and helpless it reminds
> me more of a marsupial young'en rather than a mammal.

They're related to raccoons, and more distantly to bears.  They're no
more closely related to marsupials than we are.

==============  j-c  ======  @  ======  purr . demon . co . uk  ==============
Jack Campin:  11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/>   for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
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Yowie - 19 Jun 2007 05:36 GMT
>> So does anyone know about the Panda evolutionary path? Just wondering
>> because a creature that is born so small and helpless is more like a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> They're related to raccoons, and more distantly to bears.  They're no
> more closely related to marsupials than we are.

I thought that was Red Pandas.

Never mind, found hteir evolutionary tree.

http://www.cs.unc.edu/Courses/comp590-090-f06/Slides/evolutionarytree_wang.pdf

Bears & racoons have a common ancestor, and whilst pandas are the msot
racoon like of hte bears, its still more like a bear than like a racoon. The
red panda is more racoon like than bear.

Now my head hurts :-)

Yowie
jofirey - 19 Jun 2007 15:08 GMT
>>> So does anyone know about the Panda evolutionary path? Just wondering
>>> because a creature that is born so small and helpless is more like a
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Yowie

Its no wonder.  I wish everything on the internet was date stamped.  I did a
little looking myself this morning and now my head hurts too.

I like the DNA approach.  It at least makes sense.  I just wonder because it
produces so much data that at some point someone has to decide which part of
the data is relevant.

Then again I didn't know till watching Planet Earth that Polar bears
hibernated in ice caves.

Jo
Yowie - 02 Jul 2007 06:26 GMT
>>>> So does anyone know about the Panda evolutionary path? Just wondering
>>>> because a creature that is born so small and helpless is more like a
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> Then again I didn't know till watching Planet Earth that Polar bears
> hibernated in ice caves.

geek warning and pardon if i"m teaching you how to suck eggs.

I think they do evolutionary tree tracing via the mitochondrial DNA, the
stuff that isn't in the nucleus, doesn't seem to have much influence on our
genetics, and can only come from the mother's line.

Because it doesn't change that often and doesn't have much effect on our
genetic 'evolutionary advantage', small changes creep in over time, so that
perhaps one change happens maybe every 5 generations or so. If there are
only 10 differences between the mitchondrial DNA between person a and person
b, you could conclude that they had a common ancestor 25 generations ago
(give or take).

So they check the mitochondrian DNA of bear types, and racoon types, work
out how many differences there are, and therefore how many generations ago
they had a common ancestor (or how closely related they are)

This is also how they concluded that Europeans are descendants of one of 7
women.

Yowie
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 02 Jul 2007 06:49 GMT
> I think they do evolutionary tree tracing via the mitochondrial DNA, the
> stuff that isn't in the nucleus, doesn't seem to have much influence on our
> genetics, and can only come from the mother's line.

> Because it doesn't change that often and doesn't have much effect on our
> genetic 'evolutionary advantage', small changes creep in over time, so that
> perhaps one change happens maybe every 5 generations or so. If there are
> only 10 differences between the mitchondrial DNA between person a and person
> b, you could conclude that they had a common ancestor 25 generations ago
> (give or take).

> So they check the mitochondrian DNA of bear types, and racoon types, work
> out how many differences there are, and therefore how many generations ago
> they had a common ancestor (or how closely related they are)

> This is also how they concluded that Europeans are descendants of one of 7
> women.

Oh, is that "7 women" thing for real? I've seen the book, "Seven Daughters
of Eve", and I just took it to be pop science, maybe a few people's pet
theory, but not sound, proven science. Mind you, I wouldn't know sound
science from Bigfoot. :) I'm interested in science, so I get familiar with
different theories, but I don't have a professional understanding of the
issues.

Joyce
Yowie - 02 Jul 2007 22:32 GMT
> > I think they do evolutionary tree tracing via the mitochondrial DNA, the
> > stuff that isn't in the nucleus, doesn't seem to have much influence on
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> different theories, but I don't have a professional understanding of the
> issues.

As far as I know, the science stands up, but many of the pop-conclusions
don't. Those from European backgrounds who have European mitochondria (that
is, all their maternal females were European) have mitochondrial DNA that
fits one of 7 'families', and therefore have one of the 7 "Daughters of Eve"
in their ancestry somewhere.

That doesn't however mean that there were only 7 women in Europe that we all
came from. It simply means that everyone has one of seven women in their
history, if that makes sense. All the women on your father's side don't
count. Any female that happened to have sons failed to pass on her
mitochondrial DNA. And there's been an aweful lot of interbreeding between
the 'families' of course, but its only the maternal mtDNA that counts. If
you go back only 64e3olp (Shmogg says hi) 10 generations, you have 1024
direct ancestors in that generation, all of whom contributed in some way to
your genetic makeup. Only 1 woman in that generation, though, passed her
mitochondrial DNA to you - your mother's mother's mother's mother's etc etc
mother.

BTW, you can do the same sort of trace with the Y chromosome of men, as it
can only can from from the father. Then only the father's father's father
etc etc etc can be traced, ignoring any influence of the mother's father and
his lineage. I don't recall, however, any mention of "the 7 sons of Adam" in
the press recently.

Tish would no doubt be able to describe this much better than me, but she's
rather busy at the moment. Alive, doing OK, but as overwhelmed and tired as
a first time Mum to a 4 week old baby can be.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm being painfully reminded that Shmogg needs his
claws clipped, but don't have the heart to boot him off my lap -  his
kneading is drawing blood.

Yowie
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 08 Jul 2007 20:39 GMT
> As far as I know, the science stands up, but many of the pop-conclusions
> don't. Those from European backgrounds who have European mitochondria (that
> is, all their maternal females were European) have mitochondrial DNA that
> fits one of 7 'families', and therefore have one of the 7 "Daughters of Eve"
> in their ancestry somewhere.

> That doesn't however mean that there were only 7 women in Europe that we all
> came from. It simply means that everyone has one of seven women in their
> history, if that makes sense.

Sure. We may all have one of the 7 in our history, but we also have
other ancestors besides one of the 7 (I mean from that same generation,
not later ones).

> If you go back only 64e3olp (Shmogg says hi) 10 generations

I'm glad that was Shmogg saying hi, and not some number in base 26. :)
That would be a LOT of generations!

> BTW, you can do the same sort of trace with the Y chromosome of men, as it
> can only can from from the father. Then only the father's father's father
> etc etc etc can be traced, ignoring any influence of the mother's father and
> his lineage. I don't recall, however, any mention of "the 7 sons of Adam" in
> the press recently.

I wonder, if this is possible, why scientists chose to use the mitochondrial
DNA as a tracing method? Western culture is so focused on the patrilineal,
that this would be a lot easier to verify using historical records.
Matrilineal lines are lost in history. Don't get me wrong, I find it
interesting and rather refreshing, I'm just curious. Actually, I don't
really understand why mitochondrial DNA can't be traced patrilineally.
Men have mitochondria, too...

> Tish would no doubt be able to describe this much better than me, but she's
> rather busy at the moment.

Doing the very thing we are talking about. :)

Joyce
Yowie - 11 Jul 2007 05:59 GMT
<snip>

> I wonder, if this is possible, why scientists chose to use the mitochondrial
> DNA as a tracing method? Western culture is so focused on the patrilineal,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> really understand why mitochondrial DNA can't be traced patrilineally.
> Men have mitochondria, too...

Mitochondrial DNA is less suscpetable to change, IIRC, so is better at
tracing changes over a long period of time.

Men have mitchochondria,  yes, but their mitochondria is the same as their
mother's. Only Ova can pass on mitochondria DNA, sperm only have nucleus
DNA.

>  > Tish would no doubt be able to describe this much better than me, but she's
>  > rather busy at the moment.
>
> Doing the very thing we are talking about. :)

Indeed. :-) In fact, that reminds me I need to bug her about getting to see
more photos again :-)

Yowie
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 12 Jul 2007 07:08 GMT
> Mitochondrial DNA is less suscpetable to change, IIRC, so is better at
> tracing changes over a long period of time.

> Men have mitchochondria,  yes, but their mitochondria is the same as their
> mother's. Only Ova can pass on mitochondria DNA, sperm only have nucleus
> DNA.

Thanks, those answer my questions very well!

Joyce
jofirey - 15 Jun 2007 18:53 GMT
>>> Not a cat, but the cuteness is still overwhelming:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Yowie

Well regular bear cubs are born while their mom is hibernating so they get
pretty much the same advantage as the pouch thing.  A couple of months of
nursing while mom sleeps.

I was watching a panda thing on Planet Earth yesterday.  I thought everyone
had agreed that Panda's weren't bears but funny looking raccoons.  Partly
based on the looks of the lesser panda.   But I guess now the powers that be
have decided the Panda really is a bear and that the lesser panda is just a
very small mountain bear.

I did learn that while panda's often have twins, the mother abandons one
them because they can't feed two.  Their milk isn't rich enough because of
their bamboo diet.

I really thought basics like genus and species would have been worked out a
very long time ago in the scheme of things.  I'm starting to lose all the
faith I used to have in scientists.  It was bad enough that in the middle of
my life they decide dinosaurs are more bird than reptile and stand upright.
And colorful instead of brown and green.  At least they didn't have any live
ones of those to look at.

Jo
polonca12000@yahoo.com - 27 Jun 2007 21:34 GMT
jXwXeXrXmXoX...@sonic.net wrote:
> Not a cat, but the cuteness is still overwhelming:
>
> http://mfrost.typepad.com/cute_overload/2007/06/some_days_in_th.html
>
> Joyce

How adorable! Thanks for the link.
Best wishes,
Polonca and Soncek
 
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