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A Rant. (TW maybe)

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Sherry - 09 Jun 2007 06:29 GMT
I just have to get this down into words to people that might
understand.

I popped into the shelter today, intending to quickly take some photos
for the newsletter and leave.

They apparently had just gotten in a 2 or 3 week old kitten and was
telling me about it in the office. About that time a volunteer
(probably mid-twenties, not a kid)....burst into the front office with
the kitten. Its little head was swiveling around and it was completely
limp and moaning. The girl said she had dropped it on the concrete.
I said, HOW do you DROP a baby kitten? Someone else spoke up and said,
she was carrying it around on her shoulder.

I completely at that point lost control of my mouth and pretty much
verbally tore her up and took the kitten to euth-ed, and made her go
with me. It got much worse after that. As the tirade was winding down
I saw a Mason jar full of frogs on the desk, who didn't look like they
were doing so hot either. For crying out loud. This is supposed to be
a humane society. Whoever caught the frogs wasn't about to admit it to
the crazy woman, so I turned them loose and figured I'd better leave
before I had a heart attack.

This wasn't even a real volunteer. She was one of those people who's
gotten in some kind of trouble, usually hot checks or DUI, and the
judge hands down a community service sentence that has to be served at
the shelter. In retrospect, ALL these losers should be put through an
animal handling class before they're allowed to serve their sentence.
But for God's sakes, you'd think a grown woman would have enough SENSE
not to do what she did. They're already not allowed to handle the
dogs, because we're afraid of someone getting hurt. I never dreamed
one would be stupid enough to kill a kitten.

In retrospect, I handled this so badly. What I should have done is
called *all* the volunteers in and calmy and rationally given them a
lesson in handling infants. But no-o-o-o-o-o. I"m sure they're still
talking about the bitch-shrew board member from Hell.

Well, thanks for listening. :-(

Sherry
Stormmee - 09 Jun 2007 07:03 GMT
I am sorry, for your upset and the death of the kitten, Lee
> I just have to get this down into words to people that might
> understand.
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Sherry
Marina - 09 Jun 2007 07:07 GMT
> In retrospect, I handled this so badly. What I should have done is
> called *all* the volunteers in and calmy and rationally given them a
> lesson in handling infants. But no-o-o-o-o-o. I"m sure they're still
> talking about the bitch-shrew board member from Hell.
>
> Well, thanks for listening. :-(

{{{{Sherry}}}} Hind-sight is always 20-20, isn't it. I don't blame you
for getting so upset. Don't beat yourself up about it. I'm sure at least
that volunteer learned her lesson, and maybe she'll pay it forward.

Signature

Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.

MaryL - 09 Jun 2007 07:08 GMT
>I just have to get this down into words to people that might
> understand.
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Sherry

In this case, I think a rant was called for.  I suspect that your very
real -- and very justified -- anger may have had a much larger impact that
the calm and reasoned group session you describe.  If nothing else, it may
inspire discussion that will lead to a type of communal learning.
Incidentally, this is one of the reasons why I think a sentence of community
service sometimes is *not* a good idea.  Those who work with animals should
be people who love them and will try to give them the best care.  At the
very least, people who are working under court order should be carefully
monitored.  Unfortunately, in this case it sounds as if there were witnesses
who *also* did nothng to stop what happened.  The one "somewhat" comforting
aspect is that this clearly was not an act of deliberate cruelty -- it was
more an act of stupidity and lack of knowledge.

MaryL
Sherry - 09 Jun 2007 07:22 GMT
On Jun 9, 1:08 am, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER>
wrote:

> >I just have to get this down into words to people that might
> > understand.
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
>
> MaryL-

Mary, it is so chaotic there right now that I don't know what to do.
The shelter manager (bless
her, she is an angel.)...she is out with foot surgery.  The assistant
manager is good, but she
is only one person. She must be the one to greet the public and work
the front desk, so she can't be
in the back, and in the front at the same time. The kennelmaster is a
hard worker, but he is not
a "thinker", to say it nicely. That's all the employees, just 3.  I
feel really bad for not helping out
more than I do, but physically I just cannot do it anymore.

Here's my second pet peeve, while I am on a roll. Parents have started
just dropping their children off
to volunteer! Some of these kids are only 13 or so. BAsically what the
shelter employees are doing is
free babysitting. They are there to horseplay, not work.  Young teens
are wonderful for things like socializing
kittens and puppies, or walking the dogs. But these kids don't want to
work. Their parents don't even bother
providing them a means for lunch. That's another situation that has
got to change. But it has to be done
carefully.

Sherry

Sherry
MaryL - 09 Jun 2007 07:26 GMT
> On Jun 9, 1:08 am, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 90 lines]
>
> Sherry

The shelter really needs to set a policy to govern volunteers (their
qualifications, the work they do, and the training they need before
"volunteering" at the shelter), and be firm with it.  I realize how
important public relations are to a shelter, but there are two *big* reasons
why the need to do it -- (1) those animals are their responsibility, and
their welfare should come first; and (2) they could be open to a big lawsuit
if a child of that age is left unsupervised and is then injured.
Personally, I don't think they should accept anyone under the age of 16
unless a parent is willing to stay and work alongside the child.  That could
be good training, but shelter staff should not be expected to act as
babysitters.

MaryL
Sherry - 09 Jun 2007 07:34 GMT
On Jun 9, 1:26 am, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER>
wrote:

> > On Jun 9, 1:08 am, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER>
> > wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 107 lines]
>
> MaryL- Hide quoted text -

You're right; public relations are *everything* to a shelter. That's
how this thing ballooned. First, it
was one or two, and they bent the rules because these were children
*of* dedicated volunteers and
were honestly a great help. Then it just mushroomed in the last week
since school let out and I don't
think any of the board members had any idea that 8-10 kids were being
dumped out to "volunteer" by their parents.
Believe me, I worry about liability issues constantly. I think the
"parents too" with under-16 yr. old kids
is an excellent idea. And even the 16 year olds need to be "scheduled"
for certain days, not just when they
feel like coming. I need to work on a letter to send home with them.

Sherry
Stormmee - 09 Jun 2007 08:45 GMT
and since its public relations you can say something like:  since so many of
our youth are willing to do such good work we are going to schedule so the
whole day is covered, Lee
> On Jun 9, 1:26 am, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 126 lines]
>
> Sherry
CatNipped - 13 Jun 2007 22:11 GMT
> On Jun 9, 1:26 am, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 143 lines]
>
> Sherry

I'm really surprised that they allow "volunteers" under the age of 18 since
children can't legally sign a waiver of liability.  Does the shelter's legal
advisors know this is going on?  If not, someone should let them know thast
their services will probably be needed shortly to defend the shelter against
a parent's lawsuit when one of the kids gets too rough with an animal and is
either clawed or bitten (if it is a bad injury, and especially if it
involves the face, it could cost the shelter millions above and beyond what
their insurance would pay - and the insurance might not pay a cent if they
contended the shelter was negligent!).  This might be an easy solution to
the problem without pissing off the public (blame it on the big bad lawyers,
"It's not our fault, we don't have a choice, we can't allow minors on the
premises!").

Hugs,

CatNipped
Stormmee - 09 Jun 2007 08:42 GMT
the teens can be fixed like this... maybe... before a teen is allowed to
volunteer parents and teens must attend X hours of orientation together,
during that orientation, say something about lunch hour is provided but
parents must provide lunch as there are no funds for such... HTH, just
brainstorming, Lee
> On Jun 9, 1:08 am, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 83 lines]
>
> Sherry
Jack Campin - bogus address - 09 Jun 2007 19:22 GMT
> Here's my second pet peeve, while I am on a roll. Parents have
> started just dropping their children off to volunteer! Some of
> these kids are only 13 or so. BAsically what the shelter employees
> are doing is free babysitting. They are there to horseplay, not
> work.

In the UK that would be *wildly* illegal.  The adults involved in
working with kids of that age would need police clearance and the
kids would not be allowed to do a damn thing without having been
shown systematically through the health and safety issues and having
signed each page of the safety manual to verify that they've read
and understood it.  (I work for a charity.  I have done this with
teenage volunteers.  My arse would be grass if I hadn't).

You wouldn't get much more police attention for showing porn movies
at a petting zoo filled with live cobras.

Getting the parents to sign a disclaimer waiving responsibility if
their little darlings get rabies might lose some of the unwanted
"help".  Any workplace in the UK has to do a risk assessment; you
would have to mention risks like animal bites, fleas, contact with
urine and faeces, toxoplasmosis, violence from antisocial owners
of savage dogs, psittacosis from caged birds, terrapin salmonella,
anaphylactic shock from peanuts in bird food, all that fun stuff.
Most firms just file it away but it has to be available on request,
in theory so that anybody working there can know what they might
be getting into.  With a bit of application you could easily make
the health and safety manual so long that any kid applying would
need a month to work through it and sign it off.

==============  j-c  ======  @  ======  purr . demon . co . uk  ==============
Jack Campin:  11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/>   for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
Karen - 09 Jun 2007 21:41 GMT
> Here's my second pet peeve, while I am on a roll. Parents have started
> just dropping their children off
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Sherry

Well, I would say that any kid goofing off must immediately leave the
premise. That should be standard.
MaryL - 10 Jun 2007 00:05 GMT
>> Here's my second pet peeve, while I am on a roll. Parents have started
>> just dropping their children off
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Well, I would say that any kid goofing off must immediately leave the
> premise. That should be standard.

The problem is, once the shelter permits a minor to be left in their care,
they have accepted a considerable level of responsibility.  They can't
simply require that child to leave, unaccompanied by an adult -- both legal
and ethical responsibilities enter the picture.

MaryL
Jack Campin - bogus address - 10 Jun 2007 00:54 GMT
>>> Here's my second pet peeve, while I am on a roll. Parents have
>>> started just dropping their children off to volunteer! Some of
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> can't simply require that child to leave, unaccompanied by an adult --
> both legal and ethical responsibilities enter the picture.

The adult has almost certainly violated some serious laws by leaving
the kid there in the first place - with animals of unpredictable
temper and unknown illnesses on the premises, it's about as responsible
as leaving them to play in a car crushing plant.  (And, in the UK, it
is flat illegal for adults to have charge of kids that age without
passing a police check and having a disclosure certificate to prove it).

The legally appropriate response would probably be to call the emergency
social work number and have the kids taken into care on the spot.  Treat
them as abandoned by deadbeat parents (which they have been).

Any response that even BEGINS to look like the shelter taking on a
responsibility they legally can't do is asking for either the civil
or criminal law to come down on them like a ton of bricks.  It's nuts.

==============  j-c  ======  @  ======  purr . demon . co . uk  ==============
Jack Campin:  11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/>   for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
MaryL - 10 Jun 2007 02:15 GMT
>>>> Here's my second pet peeve, while I am on a roll. Parents have
>>>> started just dropping their children off to volunteer! Some of
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> social work number and have the kids taken into care on the spot.  Treat
> them as abandoned by deadbeat parents (which they have been).

Unfortunately, that would probably generate such a violent backlash that
funding for the shelter would plummet.  Thus, it is the animals that would
suffer the consequences.

> Any response that even BEGINS to look like the shelter taking on a
> responsibility they legally can't do is asking for either the civil
> or criminal law to come down on them like a ton of bricks.  It's nuts.

Exactly.  That's why the shelter will probably have to set up some stringent
procedures so they can refuse to accept unaccompanied minors.  That's a lot
easier said than done (and will also result in some negative public
relations -- and possibly unkind media attention), but it's better than the
alternative.

--
MaryL

> ==============  j-c  ======  @  ======  purr . demon . co . uk
> ==============
> Jack Campin:  11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660
> 4760
Lesley - 10 Jun 2007 14:34 GMT
On 9 Jun, 16:54, Jack Campin - bogus address <b...@purr.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

> The adult has almost certainly violated some serious laws by leaving
> the kid there in the first place - with animals of unpredictable
> temper and unknown illnesses on the premises, it's about as responsible
> as leaving them to play in a car crushing plant.  (And, in the UK, it
> is flat illegal for adults to have charge of kids that age without
> passing a police check and having a disclosure certificate to prove it).

Yep we had this at our games club. One rather loud oboxious guy was
delighted that his little boy liked "Hero Clix" and we had a hardcore
group of players, he would leave the kid with us and then go to the
other bar and get drunk and start fights. Yes the kid was probably
safer with us (He was a nice polite kid as well but the father.....I
remember one night Mike (the kid) was sitting down to play and the
father stormed and annouced he wanted to be somewhere else so Mike
would have to go home to his mother and Mike was almost in tears
because he really wanted to play so what does this delightful specimen
of "Humanity" say to his 8-year old son? "If your mother doesn't love
you enough to come down here and keep an eye on you then you have to
go back"- punctuated with a fair bit of swearing and suggestion that
his mother was in fact a female dog)

Anyway some people started moaning about having a small boy present
(or perhaps about the father) and we asked one of our members who's
mum works on the legal side of child protection to look into our legal
status...

What a shock! We'd been innocently letting Mike play and we were laid
wide open to any number of legal problems...

We now have a policy that anyone over 16 can only come if they have a
parent with them who will stay all night with them and not leave them
to our tender mercies. When this was raised some people objected on
the grounds that as a gaming club we're supposed to encourage new
gamers. It was amusing how many dropped the subject when our chairman
pointed out that if we did that, then we'd all have to have criminal
record checks

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
Adrian A - 10 Jun 2007 16:26 GMT
> On 9 Jun, 16:54, Jack Campin - bogus address <b...@purr.demon.co.uk>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>
> Slave of the Fabulous Furballs

Since christmas I've been doing a few hours per week voluntary admin work at
the CAB, I discovered when I started that anyone that works for a charity in
this country, paid or not, has to have a criminal record check.
Signature

Adrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera)
Cats leave pawprints on your heart.
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk

Sherry - 10 Jun 2007 16:46 GMT
> Since christmas I've been doing a few hours per week voluntary admin work at
> the CAB, I discovered when I started that anyone that works for a charity in
> this country, paid or not, has to have a criminal record check.
> --
> Adrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera)
> Cats leave pawprints on your heart.http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk- Hide quoted text -

That's a good policy. Similar policies are also in place here for most
larger charities. For instance, there's a very
stringent screening process on charities that deal with children, as
well there should be. I'm sure the larger,
national H.S.'s also do.
The internet makes it so much easier to do background checks these
days. One of the projects in my head is to
start a state-wide "do not adopt" database for people who should not
be allowed to adopt animals. As it is, it's each
individual shelter who bans people. It's easy for them to just go to
another county.

Sherry
Lesley - 16 Jun 2007 17:13 GMT
. One of the projects in my head is to
> start a state-wide "do not adopt" database for people who should not
> be allowed to adopt animals.

I would like that done in the UK I always wonder when someone is
banned from keeping an animal for life how it can be enforced? Surely
they jist go to a pet shop (and any pet shop selling live animals,
(I'd like that banned as well- our local decent pet store will put
people in touch with rescue services but refuses to sell live animals-
it's not the nearest store but whilst the nearest one doesn't sell
live animals they have another branch, which is called something like
"East London Puppies"and openly sells puppies and kittens) wouldn't
give a damn) or respond to the "free to good home" ads...Okay all my
Furballs have been "free to good homes" but at least in most cases the
person knew us and in the other one I didn't know the woman very well
(I was temping in her office) but after I helped her contact swan
rescue she decided I "liked animals" (all the same, she didn't know me
that well but I think if you asked the Furballs if they were happy,
they would say "No. Not enough ham" but at least that would be all
they could find to fault- spoken by a Hoomin who had to just make the
special trip for their Hills)

I do sometimes wonder, (looks round at rather messy flat..okay some of
the mess is cat toys) if i did go to a shelter whether after a home
visit they would refuse to allow me to adopt?

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
Sherry - 16 Jun 2007 20:33 GMT
> . One of the projects in my head is to
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Lesley

Oh, pffft. Of course not! It would take about 1 minute of watching you
interact with
your cats and they'd be talking you into taking five cats, not one.
I'd trust you
with *mine*, just judging from your posts over the years. You have a
good heart.
A good heart trumps a clean house, every time.
In fact, I'd worry about adopting to anyone with spotless black
clothing or a pristine
clean house. I'd worry they weren't cat-hair-friendly enough.

Sherry
Jack Campin - bogus address - 10 Jun 2007 23:16 GMT
> Since christmas I've been doing a few hours per week voluntary
> admin work at the CAB, I discovered when I started that anyone
> that works for a charity in this country, paid or not, has to
> have a criminal record check.

Depends on what you're doing there.  Somebody not in potential close
contact with children doesn't need it (e.g. a warehouse worker for a
charity that recycles furniture).  The CAB has to be a bit fussier
since its workers will be handling confidential information.

==============  j-c  ======  @  ======  purr . demon . co . uk  ==============
Jack Campin:  11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/>   for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
Adrian A - 11 Jun 2007 10:43 GMT
>> Since christmas I've been doing a few hours per week voluntary
>> admin work at the CAB, I discovered when I started that anyone
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> charity that recycles furniture).  The CAB has to be a bit fussier
> since its workers will be handling confidential information.

Well I am dealing with confidential information but I was told that police
checks apply to everybody whatever they do.
Signature

Adrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera)
Cats leave pawprints on your heart.
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk

jofirey - 09 Jun 2007 22:58 GMT
> Here's my second pet peeve, while I am on a roll. Parents have started
> just dropping their children off
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> got to change. But it has to be done
> carefully.

Sherry, I don't remember where you are located.  But while volunteers who
are of an age to be responsible and have some idea what they are doing are a
very good thing, even those volunteers need some sort of supervision.

If the shelter is under county control, a letter, phone call or email to the
members of the county board of supervisors would be a good idea.

I can't imagine parents in anything approaching their right minds dropping
their kids off in the same place that court mandated offenders are working.

Our county jail inmates work at our shelter all the time.  If they are
properly screened and supervised there is no harm in that.  But it doesn't
mean they should be working with 13 year old kids.

The other routes for getting some action would be to contact the local
newspaper, radio or TV  and or to contact the current grand jury.  In most
states they are charges with overseeing the way the county is run and have
to check out any complaints they get.

I doubt you are going to be any happier about the situation once you calm
down.  I sincerely hope you can find a way to make things better, or to
light a fire so to speak under someone who can.

Jo
Sherry - 10 Jun 2007 01:07 GMT
> > Here's my second pet peeve, while I am on a roll. Parents have started
> > just dropping their children off
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> Jo

This isn't a shelter like the ASPCA, or shelters in larger
communities. We get zero dollars
from the governnment, it is completely run on private donations,
grants.
It is a completely private shelter, built in 1999 and I was there from
the beginning. That's why I
have a tremendous emotional investment in the place, and I don't take
criticism very well. I
have to work on that all the time, because there are always people in
the community who
want to tell you what you're doing wrong without lifting a finger to
help.
In 1999, nine people raised $250,000 to start the building. Two ladies
(one was me) were the
original staff until it could get off the ground. In those days, we
thought we were crowded if
we had 12 dogs and 6 cats. We made so many mistakes, I just cringe
when I think about it
but we did have a lot of zeal. I'll never forget the day the other
lady looked at me said, "I don't
know anything about dogs. I thought you did." In those days, it took
$30,000 a year to run the place,
bare bones. That was for water, electricity, food, insurance premiums,
food, vet bills. Oh my things
have changed.
You kind of have to understand the mentality of a rural community
toward pets.  There was *no*
shelter in the entire county. The city pound did not serve the people
in the country, and so their
solution was to dump unwanted pets.  Even for the city people, the
"dogcatcher" only held animals
72 hours, no exceptions, and they were euthanized.
The original low goal was to give the lost or abandoned animals at
least enough time to find their
owner, or be adopted. We thought, even if had to euthanize some, it
was better than them starving
dumped on a county road.  The city agreed to do our euthanasia in the
beginning. The other lady
got certified to euthanize, but I never could bear to do that.
Eventually people got on board who were knowledgeable in grant-
writing, and the community was
fairly generaous with their money if not their time. For such an
humble beginning, it really is amazing
how many people/animals that place has helped. I think I am most proud
of the free spay/neuter
program that is funded by grants. I'm also proud of the free boarding
they do for elderly folks
in the hospital and women in crisis.
It is so easy for me to run that shelter "on paper". I can come up
with so many ideas about how it
should be run. Unfortunately, it takes manpower to do everything.
There is never enough. There
is a constant stream of people bringing animals in, looking for lost
dogs, the phone rings constantly, and there's drama
of some kind going on.
You know, it never was the animals. The animals never bothered me. I
never minded doing or
putting up with *anything* regarding the animals. It's the PEOPLE that
make me crazy. Just
recently a guy hauled his neighbor's goat to the shelter because it
was eating his rosebushes. He
got so irate because we wouldn't take the goat I thought he was going
to come back with a gun
and kill us all.  See? It's just a house of insanity, 8 hours a day, 6
days a week.
There are 47 kennels, and two cat rooms with outdoor enclosures. It's
*full*, full past capacity. All the
time. That's a tremendous amount of work just in cleaning alone. The
grounds have to taken care of.
Someone has to work the desk and answer the phone, do the Petfinder
listings and other desk work
. Someone else has to transport animals to the vet.
And I read all the wonderful suggestions here, but it is so
frustrating because there's a brick wall I
bang my head against on a regular basis. Animal handling classes.
Who's going to do it? Who's
going to take charge of that? Someone has to. The manpower situation
is stretched to the absolute
limit already. It takes everyone there to supervise the community
service, the work-release, the
WEP mothers---and the cleaning can't get done without them.
Someone has to *play* with the animals--that's not an option, that is
a *must*. They have to be kept
socialized.
The shelter simply cannot afford to hire enough people. If we did,
we'd be belly-up within a year. That's why
they *depend* on some rather undesirable manpower. You cannot depend
on volunteers. Volunteers are
great, we love them, but I've learned, even if they're scheduled, only
the dedicated ones you can depend on.

Bah. I have burnout. It's like a bad train that's going so fast I
can't see how it can be turned around. All my
"control freak" genes are working overtime. I turned in my resignation
to the board, but she just patted me on the shoulder
and said, "Oh, now you take that back, you don't want to do that." I
can't even get off the frigging board.

Rant is over.

Sherry
MaryL - 10 Jun 2007 02:20 GMT
>> > Here's my second pet peeve, while I am on a roll. Parents have started
>> > just dropping their children off
[quoted text clipped - 141 lines]
>
> Sherry

Excellent message, very explanatory.  As you indicated, it is much easier
for us to write about what "should" be done than to find someone to actually
"do" it.

MaryL
jofirey - 10 Jun 2007 02:37 GMT
> This isn't a shelter like the ASPCA, or shelters in larger
> communities. We get zero dollars
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> was better than them starving
> dumped on a county road.

. For such an
> humble beginning, it really is amazing
> how many people/animals that place has helped. I think I am most proud
> of the free spay/neuter
> program that is funded by grants. I'm also proud of the free boarding
> they do for elderly folks
> in the hospital and women in crisis.

> It is so easy for me to run that shelter "on paper". I can come up
> with so many ideas about how it
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> putting up with *anything* regarding the animals. It's the PEOPLE that
> make me crazy.

> There are 47 kennels, and two cat rooms with outdoor enclosures. It's
> *full*, full past capacity. All the
> time.

> It takes everyone there to supervise the community
> service, the work-release, the
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> and said, "Oh, now you take that back, you don't want to do that." I
> can't even get off the frigging board.

Now I understand even more how upset you must be.  You have done something
truly amazing here.  And like good things tend to do it has grown.

Now you are getting a bad shot of no good deed goes unpunished.  No more
advice.  I could not accomplish so much even back in the day when I was
pretty good at it.

Well just a tiny bit of advice, if you haven't covered it already.  Talk to
a friendly lawyer.  Make sure you are reasonably well covered for any
personal liability.  And maybe set up some sort of permission slip, we can
kick you out at any time, parental consent forms for the kids parents.

Jo
Sherry - 10 Jun 2007 03:06 GMT
> > This isn't a shelter like the ASPCA, or shelters in larger
> > communities. We get zero dollars
[quoted text clipped - 85 lines]
>
> Jo- Hide quoted text -

Oh, I do appreciate everyone's suggestions, I truly do. I think
they're wonderful ideas.
We are *reasonably* well-covered, and have had a few "incidents" over
the years that
turned out as well as could be expected. But the potential is
alarmingly high, I am the
first to admit that. I do have insurance that covers me, personally,
in case anyone
gets really sue-happy and goes after the shelter first, then the board
members as individuals
next. That could happen. There is a waiver for volunteers to sign. And
that's a good point to check
out, whether they at least have them on file for these kids signed by
their parents.
The more I think about this, I think the older board members really
*should* step down,
and make room for some new blood. New people with the same gusto we
used to have ten
years ago. We're all getting old, and jaded.

Sherry
Sherry - 10 Jun 2007 03:18 GMT
> > "Sherry" <sridd...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 111 lines]
>
> Sherry- Hide quoted text -

And another thing I think about. I wonder what would have happened if
we'd taken
the initial $250,000 and spent the whole thing, plus all the donated $$
$ since,
simply on an aggressive spay/neuter campaign, neutering everything in
the county
that didn't outrun us first. And not had a building. I wonder.
Moot point though. You have to have a physical building or you can't
get grants.

Sherry
Karen - 10 Jun 2007 04:10 GMT
>>> "Sherry" <sridd...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 123 lines]
>
> Sherry

I actually don't think that would have done as much good, frankly.  I
think you did exactly the right thing. THere is probably a lot of good
you don't even know about from it.
MaryL - 10 Jun 2007 03:21 GMT
<snip>
>The more I think about this, I think the older board members really
> *should* step down,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Sherry

New blood is often a good idea but frequently is difficult to find.  I
served for 20 years as faculty advisor to one of the honor societies on our
campus (one that originated under my auspices).  I tried for a number of
years to convince the department to get a replacement, and one of my reasons
was that I thought we needed some new blood with new ideas and a renewed
sense of purpose.  The department chair kept pushing me to stay on and said
that no one else would put the time and energy into it that I had.
*Finally,* I was able to get out from under it (and must admit that by then
a great deal of my reason for wanting to do so was that the work was
overwhelming, not just new blood).  Well, it has been a relief to me -- but
in actual fact, the organization has far fewer members and is involved in
far fewer activities than in any of the years when I was advisor.  We won
some national academic awards over a period of several years, and now they
rarely even meet.  So, my point is that you deserve a break, but you may
also find that it will be nearly impossible to find replacements with the
same fervor and dedication as those who originated the enterprise.

MaryL
Rhonda - 09 Jun 2007 07:22 GMT
Sherry,

You showed great restraint in not smacking that girl.

OMG, what an unnecessary tragedy.

Rhonda

> I just have to get this down into words to people that might
> understand.
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Sherry
Lesley - 09 Jun 2007 13:17 GMT
> I just have to get this down into words to people that might
> understand.
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Sherry
Lesley - 09 Jun 2007 13:33 GMT
The girl said she had dropped it on the concrete.
> I said, HOW do you DROP a baby kitten? Someone else spoke up and said,
> she was carrying it around on her shoulder.

Poor little kitten! I assume she's been trained to handle kittens? We
all know how much they can wriggle! I am just amazed and had to read
twice that this woman is in her 20's. Recently I had to show a group
of small children how to hold a kitten properly and okay I expect a 4
year old who hasn't been told otherwise to swing a kitten by the
shoulders with the back legs dangling but it's not rocket science and
I was able to show them in 5 minutes. I would expect an "adult" to
have more sense

> I completely at that point lost control of my mouth and pretty much
> verbally tore her up and took the kitten to euth-ed, and made her go
> with me.

Ditto good for you! She's seen the consequences of her actions and I
do hope in future, she either never handles a kitten again or is
careful when doing so either is good news for kittens!

> This wasn't even a real volunteer. She was one of those people who's
> gotten in some kind of trouble, usually hot checks or DUI, and the
> judge hands down a community service sentence that has to be served at
> the shelter. In retrospect, ALL these losers should be put through an
> animal handling class before they're allowed to serve their sentence.

The judge shouldn't just send anyone (You could end up with Paris
Hilton) and yes mandatory animal handling training should be
compulsory. I suspect when given the attractions of animal shelter
community service compared with say working with old people or
cleaning up something (These are the sorts of things community service
is in the UK- I've not heard of anyone working in a shelter but I
could be wrong) some people are going to think "Get to play with cute
aninals versus getting someone's shopping for them or hard physical
work- where do I sign?"

Anyone who gets community service should be forced to submit a written
statement to the judge as to why they want to work there, that should
be assessed by the shelter and the shelter should have final say and
of course, animal handling should be compulsory before they are even
allowed over the threshold

As for irresponsible parents regarding the shelter as a babysitting
service, I like the idea that you will only accept them if the parents
work with them but of course the parents who just want to dump their
kids off on you won't do that

Another idea (thinking out of the box) would be to say that you
welcome children as volunteers at the shelter but for their own safety
firstly you have to agree the times they work, secondly they have to
do a course on animal handling, (for their own safety), this course
will cost a modest amount (say $50) but if the volunteer then
completes a given number of hours at the shelter it will be refunded.
This would weed out the "free baby sitting service" crew and if some
of them paid only to drop about before the end of the hours of service
then that's $50 for the shelter

> Well, thanks for listening. :-(

No problems

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
Karen - 09 Jun 2007 21:24 GMT
> I just have to get this down into words to people that might
> understand.
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Sherry

That is so very sad. I don't blame you for losing it. It was SO
unnessacary. I only hope that they DO do some training now.
Gabey8 - 10 Jun 2007 08:13 GMT
> I just have to get this down into words to people that might
> understand.
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Sherry

I can't blame you for getting that upset. I doubt that either I or
anyone I know could look at a critically injured kitten, hurt in an
accident that was 100% avoidable, and not lose their temper in that
moment. My temper normally has a very long fuse, but if I were
standing right there, right then, and saw the kitten suffering, it's
likely my "rational thought" circuit would have temporarily shorted
out.

Most Definitely, volunteers should need to pass basic training courses
in animal handling and safety before they're permitted to begin
working as volunteers. That's only fair to the animals AND the
volunteers.

As for underaged volunteers... you might want to consult with your
legal department and/or insurers before continuing to have kids being
dropped off there by parents who behave like you're a free day-care
center. There might be some legal requirements, or requirements set
forth by your insurance, that you have to comply with. If that's the
case, and it means that the parents have to be notified that there are
new guidelines that they and their kids have to follow, so be it.

Find out what your legal rights and duties are when a parent drops off
their kid into your custody for the day, without even asking if they
can do this. Can you refuse? (Especially if the kid in question is
more interested in horseplay than doing any actual volunteer work?) If
one of those kids gets sick or hurt, what are the legal requirements
for what you have to do? What if, God forbid, one of the adult workers
has inappropriate contact with one of the kids? You're not a day-care
center. Your employees and adult volunteers aren't screened for past
child-related criminal offenses. God forbid that some family sue the
shelter for everything it's got, because something happened to their
kid who THEY dropped off at the shelter without even asking permission
to do so. That's not fair to anyone.

I'm so sorry about the kitten. I hope that the volunteer gets her head
on straight for the rest of her community service, or finds some other
form of community service to perform.

Donna, Captain, and Stanley
Ginger-lyn - 10 Jun 2007 09:00 GMT
> I just have to get this down into words to people that might
> understand.
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Sherry

This is so sad, and should never have happened.  My heart is with the
poor little kitten who never got a chance to be loved and cuddled and
stroked.  My anger is with not just the girl, but also with the judge.
I'm sorry, but sentencing juvenile delinquents or even adult criminals
to work in a humane society is a *bad* idea.

Ginger-lyn
Sherry - 10 Jun 2007 16:10 GMT
> > I just have to get this down into words to people that might
> > understand.
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> Ginger-lyn- Hide quoted text -

You know, Ginger-lyn, I used to think that too. But the vast majority
of them
are hot-check writers and repeat DUI people, or people who got caught
with marijuana
one too many times. Some of them are fierce animal lovers just like
you and I.  Some of them
obviously have issues and don't relate to people very well. They are
just marvelous with the
animals, probably for that reason. One guy spends his breaks sitting
inside the kennel with a little dog
he has gotten attached to.
By and large, they are actually much better workers than the WEP
people (that's  "welfare
employment program--they have to put in 20 hours of volunteer work or
they don't get
their checks). Most of them are 20's-30's, and they're all women. It's
real peculiar.
They don't *know* how to clean, either
You'd think everybody knows how to clean, but I found out that's not
true.

Sherry
Ginger-lyn - 14 Jun 2007 00:05 GMT
>> This is so sad, and should never have happened.  My heart is with the
>> poor little kitten who never got a chance to be loved and cuddled and
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> Sherry

I admit I have never met anyone sentenced to this sort of thing, so I
suppose I shouldn't judge.  I sure don't see anything wrong with someone
busted for a joint serving their time in a shelter (as long as they are
not stoned when they do!).  I've give them the benefit of the doubt,
since you appear to know much more about this than I do!

Ginger-lyn
jmcquown - 10 Jun 2007 12:13 GMT
> I just have to get this down into words to people that might
> understand.
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Sherry

Sherry, you have my condolences about the bitty kitty.  Glad you turned the
frogs loose, too!

I'm so sorry about the kitten :(  Hope that woman learned her lesson.

Jill
leopardusweidii@yahoo.co.uk - 10 Jun 2007 18:00 GMT
> I completely at that point lost control of my mouth and pretty much
> verbally tore her up and took the kitten to euth-ed, and made her go
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> the crazy woman, so I turned them loose and figured I'd better leave
> before I had a heart attack.//////

It sounds like you were considerably calmer than I would have been. I
have zero tolerance for stupidity and I honestly don't know how I
would have reacted in your situation. {{{{{{SHERRY}}}}}}

Many purrs and prayers for a little bitty (RB).

Helen M
 
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