Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / May 2007
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Pat - 11 May 2007 20:06 GMT Woke up with extreme pain in my left shoulder. Did not injure it. Going to hospital now. Your cats' purrs joined with mine will be appreciated.
mlbriggs - 11 May 2007 20:16 GMT > Woke up with extreme pain in my left shoulder. Did not injure it. Going to > hospital now. Your cats' purrs joined with mine will be appreciated.
Sending purrs that it is not serious. MLB
Joy - 11 May 2007 20:20 GMT > Woke up with extreme pain in my left shoulder. Did not injure it. Going to > hospital now. Your cats' purrs joined with mine will be appreciated. Purrs are on the way. I hope the pain goes away just as quickly as it came.
Joy
Adrian A - 11 May 2007 20:26 GMT > Woke up with extreme pain in my left shoulder. Did not injure it. > Going to hospital now. Your cats' purrs joined with mine will be > appreciated. Purrs on the way.
 Signature Adrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart. http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk
dberry@mitre.org - 11 May 2007 20:47 GMT Healing purrs for a pain-free shoulder.
Debbie
On May 11, 3:06 pm, "Pat" <patricia251.catlit...@centurytel.net> wrote:
> Woke up with extreme pain in my left shoulder. Did not injure it. Going to > hospital now. Your cats' purrs joined with mine will be appreciated. jmcquown - 11 May 2007 21:07 GMT > Woke up with extreme pain in my left shoulder. Did not injure it. > Going to hospital now. Your cats' purrs joined with mine will be > appreciated. Purrs on the way. I woke up once with a pinched nerve in my neck. Hadn't done anything more than sleep. But I couldn't turn my head. My shoulder still bothers me as a result of this.
Jill
Pat - 11 May 2007 21:40 GMT I could not get a ride so I didn't make it to see a doc. Will try again later if pain continues. Difficult to type with one hand.
Sherry - 11 May 2007 22:41 GMT On May 11, 3:40 pm, "Pat" <patricia251.catlit...@centurytel.net> wrote:
> I could not get a ride so I didn't make it to see a doc. Will try again > later if pain continues. Difficult to type with one hand. Pat, if you develop any other symptoms like shortness of breath, chest pain, numbness, nausea, don't wait for a ride. Call the ambulance ASAP. If you have any plain aspirin, chew a couple of them now.
Sherry
Pat - 12 May 2007 00:04 GMT | Pat, if you develop any other symptoms like shortness of breath, chest | pain, | numbness, nausea, don't wait for a ride. Call the ambulance ASAP. | If you have any plain aspirin, chew a couple of them now. Sherry, it's joint pain only. Feels something like a stone in my shoe, only a lot higher.
mlbriggs - 12 May 2007 00:57 GMT > | Pat, if you develop any other symptoms like shortness of breath, chest > | pain, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Sherry, it's joint pain only. Feels something like a stone in my shoe, only > a lot higher. When I was in my mud 30s, I had an horrific pain in my shoulder. It was eventually diagnosed as bursitis with acute tendinitis. I had been rearranging a lot of books at work. Have you done any unusual activity regarding lifting or carrying?
Pat - 12 May 2007 01:30 GMT | When I was in my mud 30s, I had an horrific pain in my shoulder. It was | eventually diagnosed as bursitis with acute tendinitis. I had been | rearranging a lot of books at work. Have you done any unusual activity | regarding lifting or carrying? Not in the last few days.
mlbriggs - 12 May 2007 04:13 GMT > | When I was in my mud 30s, I had an horrific pain in my shoulder. It was > | eventually diagnosed as bursitis with acute tendinitis. I had been > | rearranging a lot of books at work. Have you done any unusual activity > | regarding lifting or carrying? > > Not in the last few days. Bursitis is a "wear and tear" condition. It can come on slowly, or sometimes by accident. The tendinitis is usually inflammation of the attached tendons.
mlbriggs - 12 May 2007 04:17 GMT > | When I was in my mud 30s, I had an horrific pain in my shoulder. It was > | eventually diagnosed as bursitis with acute tendinitis. I had been > | rearranging a lot of books at work. Have you done any unusual activity > | regarding lifting or carrying? > > Not in the last few days. How about in the last few weeks? Bursitis is a "wear ad tear" disease. It can come on slowly over a long period of time. Then again, an accidental injury can cause it too. Purrs that your pain is getting better. MLB
Pat - 12 May 2007 05:12 GMT | > | When I was in my mud 30s, I had an horrific pain in my shoulder. It was | > | eventually diagnosed as bursitis with acute tendinitis. I had been [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] | accidental injury can cause it too. Purrs that your pain is getting | better. MLB I've use my arms a lot in the last few weeks but never injured it to my knowledge. The pain is just about paralyzing to the arm. Goes into my neck and down to the hand. I can't raise the upper arm at all - not even an inch.
mlbriggs - 12 May 2007 06:19 GMT > | > | When I was in my mud 30s, I had an horrific pain in my shoulder. It > was [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > knowledge. The pain is just about paralyzing to the arm. Goes into my neck > and down to the hand. I can't raise the upper arm at all - not even an inch. I'd almost bet on the diagnosis and I am not a betting person. You should see a doctor. If it is bursitis, a shot of cortisone will do wonders. My family physician had me use an anti-inflammatory without results. He then sent me to an orthopedic doctor. In any event, you should see a doctor to find out what is causing the pain. Best wishes. MLB
orthopedic specialist.
Pat - 12 May 2007 06:41 GMT | I'd almost bet on the diagnosis and I am not a betting person. You should | see a doctor. If it is bursitis, a shot of cortisone will do wonders. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | | orthopedic specialist. Over the weekend I am going to try my old standby for this kind of thing: arnica gel topped with DMSO. If it's not improved by Monday morning, I will get to the doc. Although I doubt they will send a poor person to any kind of specialist.
Winnie - 12 May 2007 13:37 GMT On May 12, 1:41 am, "Pat" <patricia251.catlit...@centurytel.net> wrote:
> | I'd almost bet on the diagnosis and I am not a betting person. You should > | see a doctor. If it is bursitis, a shot of cortisone will do wonders. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > get to the doc. Although I doubt they will send a poor person to any kind of > specialist. Sounds like Frozen Shoulder to me. I think you need to see a physiotherapist. DMSO will probably help more than arnica gel. Trying massaging your should with the opposite hand if you can
Winnie, who had my share of shoulder pain and my shoulder is acting up again right now.
Lesley - 12 May 2007 14:45 GMT > Winnie, who had my share of shoulder pain and my shoulder > is acting up again right now. You have my sympathy both of you. I've had an an and off painful left shoulder for years, think it started when the top box of a wardrobe came down hard on my left shoulder and I couldn't get out from under it until my mum heard me yelling for help so I had this heavy thing on my shoulder for almost half an hour.
At the time, it was bruised and a bit sore for a few weeks then passed off apart from an incident a year or so later when I was talking to someone and turned my head to the left to listen to someone on the other side of me. I didn't jerk my neck or anything but my neck muscles chose this moment to go into spasm. I had the classic wry neck, this is not a good thing to have on a Saturday night in London, the nearest hospital was Guy's but they were short staffed and had major emergencies coming in so suggested I make my way back to my local hospital, which was Oldchurch at the time (This was a few months before I met Dave). They said I really needed a neck brace but they were busy and short staffed so told me to go home and take two aspirin- it was 4 days before I could turn my head to the right without having to bite my lip
Anyway I then went into bookselling, day in and day out of lifting heavy boxes often having to balance them on my shoulder and never a day's pain
Until I started office work...Since then for no apparent reason every so often it flares up, when it was bad I couldn't lie on my left side in bed and I can't lift my arm over my head, which made doing up a bra or pulling on a t-shirt a matter of great mental effort to force myself to do it.
I used to work at an orthopaedic hospital and if that has one perk I didn't have to wait to see one of the top shoulder guy's, I just asked him while I was handing over his paperwork if he'd mind having a quick look. He did but said without further tests he couldn't determine exactly what was wrong but he suspected the acromioclavicular joint was damaged and urged me to hold off for as long as I could from surgery...Like I needed to be told to hold off!
Anyway about 18 months ago, one of the local chemists had a masseuse, he's this guy who has his massage chair in the chemist and you turn up and get back, neck and shoulder for £3.00 for 5 minutes or £5.00 for 10. Well I figured it couldn't do any harm so I gave it a try
The next two days I was eating painkillers like sweets! I was convinced he must have done some serious damage but on the third day my shoulder was only a bit sore and by day 4, it didn't hurt at all
So now I go to my masseuse once a month and apart from occasional stiffness I don't have any trouble unless I forget to go (in which case my shoulder reminds me) or he's on holiday, last August I had to go 6 weeks without a massage, I had the day he got back ringed in red in my diary! If I had been left handed I don't think I could have even worked for the last fortnight of it. If I rolled onto my left side in my sleep I woke up because of it
I just live in dread of him getting a better offer or moving because I'll have to go even if he moves to Australia for my once a month session!
Lesley
Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
Pat - 12 May 2007 15:17 GMT I just live in dread of him getting a better offer or moving because I'll have to go even if he moves to Australia for my once a month session!
------
That's how I felt about my chiropractor (best in the USA if not the world) whose office is now 130 miles away and I haven't gone in two years. When I lived in Arkansas I saw him at least once a month and when I decided to buy a house, the town where he lives is the first place I looked. That was 25 months ago and I still haven't been back there. I am afraid he will retire before I make it to see him one last time.
Lesley - 12 May 2007 17:19 GMT I saw him at least once a month and when I decided to buy
> a house, the town where he lives is the first place I looked. Believe me if this guy did emigrate to Australia I'd have to ask the Australian High Commission if I could get a permament visa to stay there "on my health grounds"
Think they'd go for it?
Lesley
Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
Winnie - 12 May 2007 22:32 GMT > > Winnie, who had my share of shoulder pain and my shoulder > > is acting up again right now. [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > Slave of the Fabulous Furballs For years I used to go for a massage once a month when I had a job. I found it did help my shoulder problems. A combination of massage, exercises, and accpunture finally cleared my problems. . It did take over a year though. Now my shoulder problem is recurring. I am not exactly looking forward to more needles. I like being massaged on a massage table better than chair massage. But in a pinch I will settle for the latter. My massage therapist is also a fitness trainer. So she can advise me on the appropriate exercises for my shoulders and neck.
Winnie
Pat - 12 May 2007 22:46 GMT For years I used to go for a massage once a month when I had a job. I found it did help my shoulder problems. A combination of massage, exercises, and accpunture finally cleared my problems. . It did take over a year though. Now my shoulder problem is recurring. I am not exactly looking forward to more needles. I like being massaged on a massage table better than chair massage. But in a pinch I will settle for the latter. My massage therapist is also a fitness trainer. So she can advise me on the appropriate exercises for my shoulders and neck.
Oh, to have a massage again!!! My ex used to do them before he took off. There's an absolutely great MST here in Ava and I used to go to her occasionally before I decided to buy a house. As it is now, I'll be unable to afford a single massage for the rest of my life :(
jofirey - 12 May 2007 22:53 GMT On 12 May, 05:37, Winnie <w...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
So now I go to my masseuse once a month and apart from occasional stiffness I don't have any trouble unless I forget to go (in which case my shoulder reminds me) or he's on holiday, last August I had to go 6 weeks without a massage, I had the day he got back ringed in red in my diary! If I had been left handed I don't think I could have even worked for the last fortnight of it. If I rolled onto my left side in my sleep I woke up because of it
I just live in dread of him getting a better offer or moving because I'll have to go even if he moves to Australia for my once a month session!
Lesley
I know the feeling. I retired shortly after my chiropractor did. Always in the weeks before tax returns were due, my right arm would start to hurt until finally I couldn't even hold a pencil in my hand. I had standing appointments to see her in March and April. Then occasionally the rest of the year.
But she was the old fashioned sort of chiropractor. I don't much like or trust the younger ones I've seen and they don't do my any good. So I don't use them at all any more.
Jo
mlbriggs - 12 May 2007 15:51 GMT > On May 12, 1:41 am, "Pat" <patricia251.catlit...@centurytel.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Winnie, who had my share of shoulder pain and my shoulder > is acting up again right now. I have frozen shoulder too. It started with bursitis in my mid 30s (a long time ago) It takes a long time and lots of therapy to improve, I guess I tried everything under the sun. The cortisone shots finally gave relief for a long time. But! it can return MLB
Winnie - 12 May 2007 22:23 GMT On May 12, 10:51 am, mlbriggs >
> I have frozen shoulder too. It started with bursitis in my mid 30s (a > long time ago) It takes a long time and lots of therapy to improve, > I guess I tried everything under the sun. The cortisone shots finally > gave relief for a long time. But! it can return MLB- Hide quoted text - When I first had my shoulder problem, my doctor said it was bursitis and referred me to physiotherapy. Since I didn't have private supplementary insurance at the time, I went on a waiting list of a publicly funded physio clinic. While waiting, I went to a Chinese practioner who specialized in this kind of ailments. He said I had frozen shoulder. But the physiotherapist who finally worked on me said I didn't have frozen shoulder as I could still move my arms and shoulders pretty well. She said it was my poor posture that was the root cause. Eventually it was accupunture that resolved my shoulder problem.
Winnie
Pat - 12 May 2007 22:51 GMT | When I first had my shoulder problem, my doctor said it was bursitis | and referred me to physiotherapy. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | posture that was the root cause. Eventually it was accupunture that | resolved my shoulder problem. Try Structural Integration if you can afford it or insurance covers it. That's what finally solved my back problem in 1996-7 (I took both the initial ten sessions and the advanced series, over a one-year period). Too bad I fell through a rotten floor onto my head and nearly broke my neck in early '98, or I would have gone back to work. Thankfully my ex was still around and we could at least afford some treatment, but I was never quite the same after that.
Winnie - 11 May 2007 22:52 GMT On May 11, 4:40 pm, "Pat" <patricia251.catlit...@centurytel.net> wrote:
> I could not get a ride so I didn't make it to see a doc. Will try again > later if pain continues. Difficult to type with one hand. Purrs going your way.
I had shoulder pain a year or two ago and underwent physiotherapy for over a year. What finally cured me was accupunture. My should pain is recurring right now. Prescribed exercises and masage also helped.
Hope you get to see a doc soon.
Winnie
Ginger-lyn - 12 May 2007 00:40 GMT > I could not get a ride so I didn't make it to see a doc. Will try again > later if pain continues. Difficult to type with one hand. {{{{Pat}}}}} Hope you see the doc soon and are okay. Lotsa purrs coming your way.
Ginger-lyn
Daniel Mahoney - 11 May 2007 21:52 GMT > Woke up with extreme pain in my left shoulder. Did not injure it. Going to > hospital now. Your cats' purrs joined with mine will be appreciated. All the purrs we can muster coming your way.
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 11 May 2007 21:54 GMT Pat wrote:
> Woke up with extreme pain in my left shoulder. Did not injure it. Going > to hospital now. Your cats' purrs joined with mine will be appreciated. I'm glad you're going to the hospital - that sounds worrisome. Please keep us posted!
Purrs, Joyce
Sherry - 11 May 2007 22:37 GMT On May 11, 2:06 pm, "Pat" <patricia251.catlit...@centurytel.net> wrote:
> Woke up with extreme pain in my left shoulder. Did not injure it. Going to > hospital now. Your cats' purrs joined with mine will be appreciated. Purrs coming. What you describe can be many things, but it is certainly to be taken seriously. Keep us posted.
Sherry
Irulan - 11 May 2007 23:10 GMT Purring and praying it isn't serious.
Lily & her mama
 Signature Irulan from the stars we come to the stars we return from now until the end of time.
> Woke up with extreme pain in my left shoulder. Did not injure it. Going to > hospital now. Your cats' purrs joined with mine will be appreciated. Kreisleriana - 12 May 2007 16:27 GMT >Woke up with extreme pain in my left shoulder. Did not injure it. Going to >hospital now. Your cats' purrs joined with mine will be appreciated. Yikes! Purrs on the way.
Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh
Make Levees, Not War
Pat - 12 May 2007 18:27 GMT Last night I washed my hands and shoulder then applied arnica gel topped with DMSO, and when I woke up the pain was about 40% less. Put on another application of the remedy a while ago and it seems to be reducting the pain even more. I still can't raise my arm but the shoulder is less tender to the touch and there is less referred pain in the arm and neck.
This couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's been raining recently and the grass is getting too long for my reel mower, which I can't push with this shoulder thing going on. And lots of other chores await that are long overdue as well.
Thanks for the purrs, please keep 'em coming.
Jack Campin - bogus address - 12 May 2007 19:13 GMT > This couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's been raining recently > and the grass is getting too long for my reel mower, which I can't push > with this shoulder thing going on. And lots of other chores await that > are long overdue as well. Have you considered that this might be the Lord telling you that cutting grass is a waste of time?
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ============== Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760 <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975 stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
Sherry - 12 May 2007 19:20 GMT On May 12, 1:13 pm, Jack Campin - bogus address <b...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > This couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's been raining recently > > and the grass is getting too long for my reel mower, which I can't push [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Have you considered that this might be the Lord telling you that cutting > grass is a waste of time? Well, I'd go for that. Cutting grass is a colossal waste of time. I keep telling DH we need to sow the whole yard in wildflower seeds and call it a "sanctuary". LOL.
Sherry
Pat - 12 May 2007 20:13 GMT Jack Campin wrote:
| > > This couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's been raining recently | > > and the grass is getting too long for my reel mower, which I can't push [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] | need to sow the whole yard in wildflower seeds and call it a | "sanctuary". LOL. I wish the City of Ava would let me get away with that. I absolutely love tall grass. But if it gets past a certain point they come and mow it for you and charge you $50.
Sherry - 12 May 2007 20:52 GMT On May 12, 2:13 pm, "Pat" <patricia251.catlit...@centurytel.net> wrote:
> Jack Campin wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > tall grass. But if it gets past a certain point they come and mow it for you > and charge you $50. They do here within city limits, too. I kind of understand it. Tall grass harbors fleas, ticks, and all kinds of things you don't really want up close to the house. I'd still like to mow the immediate area around the house, because it discourages snakes; they don't like crawling on fresh-mowed grass. But it is totally ridiculous the size of the yard we mow. It's probably three acres. There are so much better things to do in the summer besides spending eight hours mowing grass.
Sherry
Lucy's Mom - 13 May 2007 18:52 GMT >On May 12, 1:13 pm, Jack Campin - bogus address ><b...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Sherry That's precisely what I'm working on on my front acreage. This is our third spring in the house and this past winter, we finally had enough rain to ensure some wildflower's and I've got a good many. No mowing until they've gone to seed for next year. Of course, I've got a ton of weeds too, but oh well....even those nasty thistles have pretty purple or yellow flowers. -- Eric, Kim and the Chigger Ranch Crew
Sherry - 13 May 2007 18:57 GMT > >On May 12, 1:13 pm, Jack Campin - bogus address > ><b...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > purple or yellow flowers. > -- Eric, Kim and the Chigger Ranch Crew- Hide quoted text - This has been a really good year for wildflowers here; we have had lots of rain, too. We have a sea of Indian paintbrushes and Texas bluebonnets. The yarrow is just starting to bloom and the Butterfly weed has put on heavy buds. I like the thistles, too (so do the finches!) I did plant some sunflowers & broomcorn for the birds out back. We've tried ordering wildflower seed and haven't had a lot of luck. I think Mother Nature, as always is in control of how well they do each year.
Sherry
Pat - 13 May 2007 20:13 GMT I got to borrow a riding mower long enough to cut about half the yard. The shoulder is still quite sore but improved from yesterday.
jmcquown - 13 May 2007 20:34 GMT > I got to borrow a riding mower long enough to cut about half the > yard. The shoulder is still quite sore but improved from yesterday. Maybe consider one of those "pain patches" for your arm and shoulder? I tried the expensive kind (Icy-hot, and those ThermaCare ones) but the one that work best for me when my neck & shoulder bothers me is Tiger Balm patches. Cheaper, too.
Jill
Pat - 13 May 2007 20:56 GMT | Maybe consider one of those "pain patches" for your arm and shoulder? I | tried the expensive kind (Icy-hot, and those ThermaCare ones) but the one | that work best for me when my neck & shoulder bothers me is Tiger Balm | patches. Cheaper, too. Thanks for the tip. I will try it if I can find some patches. Sounds like they would indeed help.
Cantate - 14 May 2007 05:01 GMT Been offline for a while but reading this with great interest. I have been having shoulder pain as well, for about 6 months. In Japan they call it "goju-kata" (50-year-old shoulder) and don't take it very seriously. I think I need to re-start going to my PT. Thanks for all the advice to Pat-- you got me too!
Cantate
Pat - 14 May 2007 06:38 GMT | Been offline for a while That would explain why you missed my PING. Has Chibi come home yet?
Winnie - 14 May 2007 14:21 GMT > Been offline for a while but reading this with great interest. I have > been having shoulder pain as well, for about 6 months. In Japan they [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Cantate Chinese also call it 50-year-old shoulder. That was the diagnosis I got from the Chinese practitioner.
Winnie
jmcquown - 14 May 2007 15:49 GMT >> Maybe consider one of those "pain patches" for your arm and >> shoulder? I tried the expensive kind (Icy-hot, and those ThermaCare [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Thanks for the tip. I will try it if I can find some patches. Sounds > like they would indeed help. Should be available in any drugstore, even in a small town ;) Brands may vary, of course, but I found a surprisingly large and confusing selection! (Of course, this was at a Walgreen's; don't know if you have one nearby.) My budget being what it is, after spending the extra $$ for the ones advertised on TV I tried the Tiger Balm patches (they also actually make a balm which helps, too). They provide a nice soothing mentholated heat that lasts 6-8 hours; they adhere better than the more expensive ones, too!
Cantate - 15 May 2007 09:28 GMT Those patches are called "shippu" in Japanese-- what are they in Chinese, Winnie?
Cantate
Winnie - 15 May 2007 13:36 GMT > Those patches are called "shippu" in Japanese-- what are they in > Chinese, Winnie? > > Cantate Sorry, I don't know what they are called in Chinese. I have never seen or look for these patches. I used Tiger Balm in cream form when I was a kid, but only for ailments like tummy ache.
Winnie
Pat - 15 May 2007 16:59 GMT Has Chibi returned???
Cantate - 16 May 2007 03:57 GMT On May 16, 12:59 am, "Pat" <patricia251.catlit...@centurytel.net> wrote:
> Has Chibi returned??? No. I still send out "come home Chibi" brainwave messages, though.
Cantate
Pat - 16 May 2007 05:31 GMT | On May 16, 12:59 am, "Pat" <patricia251.catlit...@centurytel.net> | wrote: | > Has Chibi returned??? | | No. I still send out "come home Chibi" brainwave messages, though. So do I.
Cantate - 17 May 2007 01:47 GMT > | No. I still send out "come home Chibi" brainwave messages, though. > > So do I. Thank you!!!!!!! :*)
jmcquown - 15 May 2007 18:24 GMT > Those patches are called "shippu" in Japanese-- what are they in > Chinese, Winnie? > > Cantate Tiger Balm is made in Hong Kong :) I can't read what the label says other than in English. I'm about to rub some on my neck and shoulder; I slept funny last night and it's starting to bother me again today.
Jill
polonca12000 - 15 May 2007 22:16 GMT > | Maybe consider one of those "pain patches" for your arm and shoulder? I > | tried the expensive kind (Icy-hot, and those ThermaCare ones) but the one [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Thanks for the tip. I will try it if I can find some patches. Sounds like > they would indeed help. Hopefully the pain is gone by now, Pat. Best wishes and purrs, Polonca and Soncek
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