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We have a dog!

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Debbie Wilson - 14 Mar 2007 15:36 GMT
And World War 3 has not yet erupted ;-)  In fact, she is scared of the
cats and won't cross their paths! I think they are learning this quite
fast and are not so alarmed by her as they were at first.

Anyway, her name is Daisy, she arrived on Monday and she is a German
Shepherd-collie crossbreed, about 4 years old, black & tan with really
sweet ears that perk right up when she is interested in something and
stick out at angles the rest of the time. She came from the local
council dog pound and seems to have have a reasonable home sometime in
her past as she is well-behaved and knows some commands already, but for
whatever reason, those people didn't want or couldn't keep her any more.
She is a sweetheart and seems to be settling in very well. We have had
more exercise in the last 2 days than we had all winter and that can't
be a bad thing either ;-) The cats haven't reacted too badly - lots of
fluffing up, hissing and big eyes at first, but not really running away
and only hiding on the first day - now they still fluff up and hiss but
don't run or hide. I am hopeful that everything will continue to improve
:-)

Here is a picture of Daisy when we took her out for the day yesterday:
http://www.zoobotanica.plus.com/daisy.JPG

Deb.
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http://www.scientific-art.com

"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

Cheryl Perkins - 14 Mar 2007 15:47 GMT
<snip>

Sounds good!

> Here is a picture of Daisy when we took her out for the day yesterday:
> http://www.zoobotanica.plus.com/daisy.JPG

What a lovely girl!

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Cheryl

Debbie Wilson - 14 Mar 2007 17:51 GMT
> Sounds good!
>
> > Here is a picture of Daisy when we took her out for the day yesterday:
> > http://www.zoobotanica.plus.com/daisy.JPG
>
> What a lovely girl!

Thanks - she is a sweet dog!

Deb.
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http://www.scientific-art.com

"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

Karen - 14 Mar 2007 15:53 GMT
She looks so sweet!!! Condogulations! :D

> And World War 3 has not yet erupted ;-)  In fact, she is scared of the
> cats and won't cross their paths! I think they are learning this quite
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Deb.
Debbie Wilson - 14 Mar 2007 17:51 GMT
> She looks so sweet!!! Condogulations! :D

ROFL!!!! Thanks :-)

Deb.
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http://www.scientific-art.com

"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

Kreisleriana - 14 Mar 2007 15:56 GMT
>And World War 3 has not yet erupted ;-)  In fact, she is scared of the
>cats and won't cross their paths! I think they are learning this quite
>fast and are not so alarmed by her as they were at first.
>
>Anyway, her name is Daisy,

What a sweet name. ;)

she arrived on Monday and she is a German
>Shepherd-collie crossbreed,

Watch out, those are very smart. ;)

about 4 years old, black & tan with really
>sweet ears that perk right up when she is interested in something and
>stick out at angles the rest of the time. She came from the local
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Here is a picture of Daisy when we took her out for the day yesterday:
>http://www.zoobotanica.plus.com/daisy.JPG

Lovely girl!  More pics, soon, please.

I love dogs, and don't have one in deference to the masters.  Purring
that peace reigns in your house.

>Deb.

Theresa
Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh

Make Levees, Not War
Debbie Wilson - 14 Mar 2007 17:51 GMT
> What a sweet name. ;)

Thanks :-)

>  she arrived on Monday and she is a German
> >Shepherd-collie crossbreed,
>
> Watch out, those are very smart. ;)

She certainly seems to understand plenty of commands already, and when I
told her off earlier for illegally snarfing down some of the cats' food,
she sat down and offered me her paw....

> Lovely girl!  More pics, soon, please.

I will certainly have more soon hopefully!

> I love dogs, and don't have one in deference to the masters.  Purring
> that peace reigns in your house.

Thanks - so far so good, but it's early days and there has been a lot of
supervision and segregation so far.... we'll see how it goes!

Deb.
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"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

Sherry - 14 Mar 2007 15:58 GMT
> And World War 3 has not yet erupted ;-) In fact, she is scared of the
> cats and won't cross their paths! I think they are learning this quite
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Deb.
Ohhh! She is a pretty dog. She looks smart! If Daisy is afraid of the
cats, that's half the battle. They'll adjust just fine I bet. Happy
was a lot younger than Daisy when we got him, but they "trained" him
real well. I think in the end they were actually fond of him. Bootsie
was, for sure.
I really miss him--your post really made me want a dog.
Sherry
Debbie Wilson - 14 Mar 2007 17:51 GMT
> Ohhh! She is a pretty dog. She looks smart! If Daisy is afraid of the
> cats, that's half the battle. They'll adjust just fine I bet. Happy
> was a lot younger than Daisy when we got him, but they "trained" him
> real well. I think in the end they were actually fond of him. Bootsie
> was, for sure.
> I really miss him--your post really made me want a dog.

Aww - I hope you are able to have one again one day. She is a darling.
What is so funny is when she lies down in her bed to sleep, and the
snoring starts immediately, she can't possibly have dozed off that fast
but she snores as if she is :-)

Deb.
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http://www.scientific-art.com

"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

jmcquown - 14 Mar 2007 16:06 GMT
> And World War 3 has not yet erupted ;-)  In fact, she is scared of the
> cats and won't cross their paths! I think they are learning this quite
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Deb.

Awwww!  What a pretty girl!  Reminds me of Kamoi, a half-breed G-shep we had
when we lived in Bangkok.  The name Kamoi means "thief" in Thai; he was
always stealing things... the gardener's hat being the primary target :)

Jill
Debbie Wilson - 14 Mar 2007 17:51 GMT
> Awwww!  What a pretty girl!  Reminds me of Kamoi, a half-breed G-shep we had
> when we lived in Bangkok.  The name Kamoi means "thief" in Thai; he was
> always stealing things... the gardener's hat being the primary target :)

Heh - well Daisy stole my Kitkat on the first day, I had put it down for
one millisecond to fetch my coffee and she just got up and ate it,
silver foil and all! No ill effects, and I do know that chocolate is as
bad for dogs as it is for cats ;-)
My fault, I shouldn't have left temptation in front of a very recently
ex-shelter dog....

Deb.
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http://www.scientific-art.com

"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

jmcquown - 15 Mar 2007 22:35 GMT
>> Awwww!  What a pretty girl!  Reminds me of Kamoi, a half-breed
>> G-shep we had when we lived in Bangkok.  The name Kamoi means
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Deb.

I still have the image of Kamoi hauling the fairly young Marine Corps
recruit up the driveway.  Dad had come home and said a guy was bringing over
a dog because he was being shipped stateside and couldn't take him back with
him.

Well, to me it looked like the dog brought *him* over.  He was being dragged
down the driveway!  6 month old very exhuberant puppy that weighed close to
80 lbs.  LOL

We had a cement fishpond under the steps going up to the 2nd floor balcony.
Kamoi waded in and ate all the exotic goldfish.

He got his nose bitten by the walking catfish in the natural pond out front,
though!

Anyway, congratulations again on your dog!

Jill
Marina - 14 Mar 2007 16:46 GMT
> Here is a picture of Daisy when we took her out for the day yesterday:
> http://www.zoobotanica.plus.com/daisy.JPG

She looks really, really sweet! Congrats on your new family member, and
calming purrs on the way to the cats to stop floofing already. ;)

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Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/
Pics at http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o185/frankiennikki/
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Debbie Wilson - 15 Mar 2007 09:51 GMT
> She looks really, really sweet! Congrats on your new family member, and
> calming purrs on the way to the cats to stop floofing already. ;)

Thanks Marina - your purrs are appreciated :-)

Deb.
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"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

Ketzl's Dad - 14 Mar 2007 16:59 GMT
> Here is a picture of Daisy when we took her out for the day yesterday:
> http://www.zoobotanica.plus.com/daisy.JPG
>
> Deb.

She's a sweetie!

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Joey DoWop Dee
Remember: It is To Laugh

Debbie Wilson - 15 Mar 2007 09:51 GMT
> She's a sweetie!

Thanks!

Deb.
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"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

Kreisleriana - 14 Mar 2007 17:17 GMT
>And World War 3 has not yet erupted ;-)  In fact, she is scared of the
>cats and won't cross their paths! I think they are learning this quite
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
>Deb.

PS Debbie, is that your art on the home page?  It's gorgeous.  Is that
a tiger salamander?

Theresa
Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh

Make Levees, Not War
Debbie Wilson - 15 Mar 2007 09:51 GMT
> PS Debbie, is that your art on the home page?  It's gorgeous.  Is that
> a tiger salamander?

Thanks very much! It is my art, and that site is my online portfolio.
And yes - you win the amphibian identification prize of the day, it is
indeed a tiger salamander :-)  Con-worm-ulations! I am impressed!

Deb.
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"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

Ketzl's Dad - 15 Mar 2007 16:18 GMT
>> PS Debbie, is that your art on the home page?  It's gorgeous.  Is that
>> a tiger salamander?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Deb.

Ok, I can certainly go with "con-cat-ulations" (hear, hear!) and even *maybe*
"corn-dog-ulations" but "con-worm-ulations"??
That's just weird!  :-D

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Joey DoWop Dee
Remember: It is To Laugh

Adrian A - 14 Mar 2007 18:02 GMT
> And World War 3 has not yet erupted ;-)  In fact, she is scared of the
> cats and won't cross their paths! I think they are learning this quite
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Deb.

She looks very sweet, I can't understand anyone giving her up.
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Adrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera)
Cats leave pawprints on your heart.
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Debbie Wilson - 15 Mar 2007 09:51 GMT
> She looks very sweet, I can't understand anyone giving her up.

Thanks Adrian!

Deb.
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"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

Christina Websell - 14 Mar 2007 18:50 GMT
German Shepherd/collie cross is one of the nicest in the world.  May you
have many delightful years with her.  I'm sure you will.
Did I notice you had snow yesterday??

Tweed
Kreisleriana - 14 Mar 2007 19:13 GMT
>German Shepherd/collie cross is one of the nicest in the world.  May you
>have many delightful years with her.  I'm sure you will.
>Did I notice you had snow yesterday??
>
>Tweed

They are wonderful.  I remember several from my childhood.  They love
kids.  

Theresa
Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh

Make Levees, Not War
Debbie Wilson - 15 Mar 2007 09:51 GMT
> German Shepherd/collie cross is one of the nicest in the world.  May you
> have many delightful years with her.  I'm sure you will.
> Did I notice you had snow yesterday??

I hope so. We are only concerned about one thing which is that she has
snapped at each of us several times, mainly when we have told her to get
off the bed as she is obviously used to sleeping on it and that's not
something we want to allow. Yesterday she flattened herself onto the bed
and snapped up at Phil several times when he told her to get down -
there was no physical action from him, just a voice command. So we
tipped up the duvet, so she had to jump down and then she stayed in her
own bed. She has also snapped and bared her teeth when she has been told
off for other things. Neither of us has owned a dog before and we
realise we must assert ourselves as dominant over her, but not sure how
best to handle the snapping and teeth-baring. Any advice very welcome!

By the way - no snow here in sunny Surrey, it was a balmy 15C! :-)

Deb.

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"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

Christina Websell - 15 Mar 2007 19:23 GMT
>> German Shepherd/collie cross is one of the nicest in the world.  May you
>> have many delightful years with her.  I'm sure you will.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> realise we must assert ourselves as dominant over her, but not sure how
> best to handle the snapping and teeth-baring. Any advice very welcome!

Hmm, it sounds like she's been a bit spoiled by her previous owners who may
have become a little bit afraid of her show of dominance and let her get
away with it "for a quiet life,"
You did the right thing by tipping her off the bed when she tried to refuse.
It's essential that she learns that she isn't the boss asap but on the other
hand, try not to put her in a position where she keeps failing - she may
have never been taught boundaries - as if she keeps getting told off for
things she may not know she shouldn't do you will never have a good
relationship.
My advice is to enrol in a good dog training class that meets weekly.  She
is not too old to learn how to take orders gracefully and a good dog trainer
will show you both how it can be attained.  She will be far happier if you
are pack leader rather than her.  It's a failure on her previous owners part
really, in not teaching her her place when she first tried the snarling and
snapping routine.
No snarling and snapping at me was allowed here ;-)  Some did try it as
puppies, but it was nipped in the bud and never happened again.

It *does* need a bit more work to stop them doing it as adults if they've
been allowed to get away with it, and Daisy obviously has.
I have successfully retrained an adult German Shepherd male with a huge
attitude problem towards women and black people a few years ago.  He had
been used as a security dog for a security firm, passed from handler to
handler as a tool.
He was actually quite dangerous and was about to be euthanised.  He'd been
in the police force and was dishonourably discharged after ripping out the
thigh muscle of a suspect he had to chase who turned on him and kicked him
in the stomach.
Then he ended up somehow with a private security company.

My late DH got a job with this company.  To go with the job there was a dog.
This dog.
To cut a long story short.  When DH got a different job, we kept the dog.
He was very difficult, very surly.  As tempers go his was on the minus
scale.   He had no respect for me at all.
One day I was about to go to work. He saw me preparing for this and retired
to his bed to sulk about this.  Even though he appeared to hate me, he
didn't want me to go.  I could see that he was sulking so I went to him on
his bed to pet him and to say "I'll be back soon."
He rose up, snarling and snapping.
I went into the kitchen, got a frying pan and bopped him on the head with
it, along with some choice loud words.   Surprisingly nothing like that ever
happened again.  He was here until the end of his life and he really seemed
to love me.

I am not recommending this for Daisy.  She is merely spoilt and a course of
dog training school will sort her out I am sure.

Tweed
Sherry - 15 Mar 2007 19:29 GMT
On Mar 15, 1:23�pm, "Christina Websell"
<spamf...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:

> >> German Shepherd/collie cross is one of the nicest in the world. May you
> >> have many delightful years with her. I'm sure you will.
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
>
> Tweed

It took me a while to learn that dogs *need* boundaries, and they
really *want* boundaries. I think they are more secure when they know
their place "in the pack."  DH was always the one who was stern with
Happy when he needed it, and the funny thing is, he was always Happy's
first choice for a buddy. He liked me, but it was obvious he liked DH
better. Maybe he thought DH was the pack leader.

Sherry

Sherry
Christina Websell - 15 Mar 2007 20:33 GMT
On Mar 15, 1:23?pm, "Christina Websell"
<spamf...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:
> "Debbie Wilson" <djmaiz...@mac.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 76 lines]
>
> Tweed

It took me a while to learn that dogs *need* boundaries, and they
really *want* boundaries. I think they are more secure when they know
their place "in the pack."  DH was always the one who was stern with
Happy when he needed it, and the funny thing is, he was always Happy's
first choice for a buddy. He liked me, but it was obvious he liked DH
better. Maybe he thought DH was the pack leader.

I was always a dog owner and aware how to set the boundaries for them.
Imagine my surprise when my cats adopted me and accepted no boundaries
whatsoever!
To say it was a learning curve would not even describe it.

Tweed
jofirey - 15 Mar 2007 22:01 GMT
> It took me a while to learn that dogs *need* boundaries, and they
> really *want* boundaries. I think they are more secure when they know
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Tweed

Then there are the dogs that believe the boundaries are subject to
renegotiation.

No one I know of course.

Jo
John F. Eldredge - 16 Mar 2007 02:20 GMT
>> It took me a while to learn that dogs *need* boundaries, and they
>> really *want* boundaries. I think they are more secure when they know
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>No one I know of course.

Dogs interact with humans in much the same way they react to other
dogs within a pack.  Given that a dog may move up or down in the pack
hierarchy over time, when dealing with other dogs, it isn't surprising
that they sometimes try to do the same thing when dealing with humans.

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John F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com
PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

jofirey - 16 Mar 2007 02:57 GMT
>>> It took me a while to learn that dogs *need* boundaries, and they
>>> really *want* boundaries. I think they are more secure when they know
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> hierarchy over time, when dealing with other dogs, it isn't surprising
> that they sometimes try to do the same thing when dealing with humans.

Makes a lot of sense, thanks.

Jo
Marina - 16 Mar 2007 04:17 GMT
> Then there are the dogs that believe the boundaries are subject to
> renegotiation.
>
> No one I know of course.

Surely not Kayla! She's a little angel, no? ;)

Signature

Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/
Pics at http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o185/frankiennikki/
http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
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jofirey - 16 Mar 2007 06:07 GMT
>> Then there are the dogs that believe the boundaries are subject to
>> renegotiation.
>>
>> No one I know of course.
>
> Surely not Kayla! She's a little angel, no? ;)

She sure is, but her halo isn't perfectly shiny.

Jo
Sherry - 15 Mar 2007 23:06 GMT
On Mar 15, 2:33�pm, "Christina Websell" >
> I was always a dog owner and aware how to set the boundaries for them.
> Imagine my surprise when my cats adopted me and accepted no boundaries
> whatsoever!
> To say it was a learning curve would not even describe it.

I learned a lot, and it was so interesting, how to properly train a
dog, how a dog "thinks".  I had Happy on a leash, he spotted a loose
dog, and took off after him, yanked the leash out of my hand. No
amount of yelling would make him even stop and look at me. He ran
right in front of a car. I have often wondered if it had been DH
trying to call him back if he would have stopped running. Under other
circumstances he was very obedient. He was extremely well leash-
trained. It was like instinct just took over him and he forgot
everything else except chasing that dog. I just miss that dog so bad,
still, when I think about him.
If/when we do get another dog, I would love your help.

Sherry
Christina Websell - 15 Mar 2007 23:43 GMT
On Mar 15, 2:33?pm, "Christina Websell" >
> I was always a dog owner and aware how to set the boundaries for them.
> Imagine my surprise when my cats adopted me and accepted no boundaries
> whatsoever!
> To say it was a learning curve would not even describe it.

I learned a lot, and it was so interesting, how to properly train a
dog, how a dog "thinks".  I had Happy on a leash, he spotted a loose
dog, and took off after him, yanked the leash out of my hand. No
amount of yelling would make him even stop and look at me. He ran
right in front of a car. I have often wondered if it had been DH
trying to call him back if he would have stopped running. Under other
circumstances he was very obedient. He was extremely well leash-
trained. It was like instinct just took over him and he forgot
everything else except chasing that dog. I just miss that dog so bad,
still, when I think about him.
If/when we do get another dog, I would love your help.

Sherry

Some dogs, like hounds, will always take off after things.  It's their
nature.  The skill of being a dog owner is to learn what your dog is bred
for and allow for it.
I am here for advice if you ever need it when you think about getting
another dog. We could talk about what breed might suit your circumstances
when you are ready.

Tweed
Debbie Wilson - 16 Mar 2007 20:16 GMT
> I was always a dog owner and aware how to set the boundaries for them.
>  Imagine my surprise when my cats adopted me and accepted no boundaries
> whatsoever!
> To say it was a learning curve would not even describe it.

Yes - I am learning they are really completely different in every way!!

Deb.
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"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

HRFLTiger - 17 Mar 2007 15:09 GMT
> I was always a dog owner and aware how to set the boundaries for them.
>  Imagine my surprise when my cats adopted me and accepted no boundaries
> whatsoever!
> To say it was a learning curve would not even describe it.
>
> Tweed-////////

ROTFLMAO!!!  To think you even thought that cats believed in
boundaries!  I'll bet KFC knocked you into shape and made you see the
error of your ways PDQ! ;o) ;o)

What's yours is theirs, and what's theirs, is theirs!

Helen M
Christina Websell - 17 Mar 2007 20:04 GMT
>> I was always a dog owner and aware how to set the boundaries for them.
>>  Imagine my surprise when my cats adopted me and accepted no boundaries
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> boundaries!  I'll bet KFC knocked you into shape and made you see the
> error of your ways PDQ! ;o) ;o)

It wasn't that quick actually, I was a slow learner ;-)

> What's yours is theirs, and what's theirs, is theirs!

Not so much that, but their mindset is so different, and totally alien to me
at that time.  I began to think KFC was incapable of learning because she
continued to do what I told her not to.  Take the case of the kitchen table
for example.  I found her meatloafing up there one day.  "Get off the table"
I said, and indicated a downward movement with one hand after pushing her
very gently with one finger on the side of her neck.  "no" she said, "I like
it on here."  I stood back in amazement.  Not only would one of my dogs have
never got up on the table, if they did and were ordered off they would have
got off straight away.  I tried again more sternly" GET OFF THE TABLE" and
she did.

I went out for half an hour, came back and she was on the table again.  She
was pleased to see me.
Now the difference between a cat and a dog is that if a dog has recently
been corrected about such a thing a couple of times it will usually stay
corrected.  If it chanced the table again, the moment it heard you coming it
would jump down so you were unaware.
Kitty was so blatant!  In a dog this would be an act of defiance.

Now I knowaq bit more about cats, mainly thanks to this group.  Kitty will
do exactly as she pleases.  If she likes to sit on the table she will do so.
I don't like her up on the table where I eat so every time I see her on it I
make her get down.  Every time she wants to sit up there she gets up.

There is nothing whatsover I can do about it.  She's a cat.  She's selfish.
The word "obey" is not in a cat's understanding.

Tweed
Debbie Wilson - 16 Mar 2007 20:16 GMT
snipped extremely useful advice - thanks.

> I am not recommending this for Daisy.  She is merely spoilt and a course of
> dog training school will sort her out I am sure.

We have found out that our vets run dog training classes so will book
ourselves in there shortly. I agree that I think Daisy has been allowed
to get away with a bit much in her previous home. She is rapidly
improving already. No more snapping or teeth-baring since the bed
episode. Last night she put 2 paws up on the bed but I gently shoved her
down and she went to her own bed and stayed there. (snoring!!) Today the
door of the studio blew open (we are keeping her in with us until the
baby gate arrives) and she made a dash directly for the cats' bowls as
expected. I rushed after her and yelled her name and about 2 feet from
the bowls she stopped, turned to look at me and then when I told her to
sit, she did. I was amazed but also relieved. She seems very happy and
we are now getting plenty of waggy tails and paws on our knees which is
very endearing. She is also being excellent with the house training,
with no accidents since the first day. Last night she was with us in the
living room in her bed, when Bracken crept round the door. He stopped
when he saw her and she sat up with great interest. After a lot of
coaxing he approached us and Daisy stayed put. He then sat on my lap as
usual, within sight of her, and she went back to sleep. Very
encouraging! She is also doing this hilarious behaviour of rolling
around on her back in her bed, twisting and wagging her tail, mouth open
and making huffy grunty sounds :-))   She seems to enjoy it, so who am I
to laugh!

Deb.
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"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

Marina - 17 Mar 2007 05:53 GMT
> Last night she was with us in the
> living room in her bed, when Bracken crept round the door. He stopped
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> and making huffy grunty sounds :-))   She seems to enjoy it, so who am I
> to laugh!

LOL! She sounds like a real charmer. WTG, Bracken!

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HRFLTiger - 17 Mar 2007 15:14 GMT
. Very
> encouraging! She is also doing this hilarious behaviour of rolling
> around on her back in her bed, twisting and wagging her tail, mouth open
> and making huffy grunty sounds :-))   She seems to enjoy it, so who am I
> to laugh!
>
> Deb.////

That's "happy, happy dog" behaviour! Sounds like she is settling
beautifully! :)

Helen M
Ketzl's Dad - 17 Mar 2007 15:25 GMT
> She is also doing this hilarious behaviour of rolling
> around on her back in her bed, twisting and wagging her tail, mouth open
> and making huffy grunty sounds :-))   She seems to enjoy it, so who am I
> to laugh!

As Helen said, it's a sure sign of "OH BOY AM I HAPPPPPY!"
Gotta love dogs too.

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Remember: It is To Laugh

mlbriggs - 14 Mar 2007 19:40 GMT
> And World War 3 has not yet erupted ;-)  In fact, she is scared of the
> cats and won't cross their paths! I think they are learning this quite
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Deb.

He has a sweet smile on his face.  Best wishes for a happy household.  
MLB
Debbie Wilson - 15 Mar 2007 09:51 GMT
> He has a sweet smile on his face.  Best wishes for a happy household.

Thank you - she was smiling for that one, definitely.

Deb.
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"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

Will in New Haven - 14 Mar 2007 19:43 GMT
> And World War 3 has not yet erupted ;-)  In fact, she is scared of the
> cats and won't cross their paths! I think they are learning this quite
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> don't run or hide. I am hopeful that everything will continue to improve
> :-)

Our Bear, a Lab, is wonderful with the cats. He pushes them a little
but every once in awhile one of them will whack him and then
everything is back to normal. I don't understand dog-only or cat-only
people. Life is so good with both.

> Here is a picture of Daisy when we took her out for the day yesterday:http://www.zoobotanica.plus.com/daisy.JPG

Awww. I better not show that picture to Bear. He would fall in ruv.

Will in New Haven

--

> Deb.
> --http://www.scientific-art.com
>
> "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
> He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield
Debbie Wilson - 15 Mar 2007 09:51 GMT
> Our Bear, a Lab, is wonderful with the cats. He pushes them a little but
> every once in awhile one of them will whack him and then everything is
> back to normal. I don't understand dog-only or cat-only people. Life is so
> good with both.

It's certainly different! We just need to overcome her snapping
behaviour (as I posted to Tweed) and learn how to make sure she knows we
are both boss over her.

> Awww. I better not show that picture to Bear. He would fall in ruv.

:-))

Deb.
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"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He
only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 14 Mar 2007 20:23 GMT
> And World War 3 has not yet erupted ;-)  In fact, she is scared of the
> cats and won't cross their paths!

She may have had a run-in or two with an unintimidated cat!
 (Actually, cats have superior weaponry - four sets of
claws, in addition to a mouthful of teeth - and some don't
hesitate to use them agains an aggressive dog.)  I once read
a rather disturbing tale (hopefully fiction) about a
bobcat/domestic mix who was pitted against dogs in
dogfights, and could effectively disembowel a fighting dog
in very short order!  (The dog might be bigger and stronger,
but let the cat get a grip around its neck with its front
feet, and those hind claws could do SEVERE damage!)
Will in New Haven - 14 Mar 2007 21:49 GMT
On Mar 14, 3:23 pm, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
<evgm...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > And World War 3 has not yet erupted ;-)  In fact, she is scared of the
> > cats and won't cross their paths!
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> but let the cat get a grip around its neck with its front
> feet, and those hind claws could do SEVERE damage!)

I have had to train several dogs that were in the habit of attacking
cats. None of these dogs could have been stopped by an ordinary
domestic cat. One of them was untrainable and could not be kept secure
enough for his owner to feel right about it, so she had to be put
down. It was a terrible thing as she was otherwise a sweet dog. The
other dogs could be salvaged and I adopted one of them and he lived
with a cat the rest of his life.

When a determined dog of a reasonable size really wants to hurt or
kill a cat, the cat can usually do nothing to protect herself or
himself. Dogs that can be discouraged are much more numerous and cats
do quite well against those. Forty pound coyotes have no trouble
killing cats. More's the pity.

Will in New Haven
Debbie Wilson - 15 Mar 2007 09:51 GMT
> I have had to train several dogs that were in the habit of attacking
> cats. None of these dogs could have been stopped by an ordinary
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> do quite well against those. Forty pound coyotes have no trouble
> killing cats. More's the pity.

I am amazed how strong Daisy actually is. Certainly, if she didn't like
cats and attacked them, they wouldn't stand a chance. We seem to be
lucky in that she won't go near them.

Deb.
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"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

Will in New Haven - 15 Mar 2007 14:45 GMT
> > I have had to train several dogs that were in the habit of attacking
> > cats. None of these dogs could have been stopped by an ordinary
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> cats and attacked them, they wouldn't stand a chance. We seem to be
> lucky in that she won't go near them.

Dogs that hurt cats seem to have a _habit_ or compulsion to do so. I
think a dog that has been around cats for more than a couple of days
without attacking any of them is much more likely to end up cuddling
with one of them than harming any of them. Of course, most dogs won't
let cats near food items and some are even intolerant about water.
Bear is a luv and will actually let Winnie, the only one who dares,
have one or two crunchy bits from his food bowl. But only one or two
and then it's "get out of there, that's my FOOD." Since the cats only
like water from HIS bowl (and faucets) it is good that Bear does not
get possessive about that.

Her growling and snapping at undesired commands is probably a way of
testing you to see if you really intend to be dominant. She is
probably going to be willing to let you be dominant if you are
determined. However, this does not preclude getting bitten if she
wants to take the test to that level. A dog does not see biting or
being bitten (I'm talkinga bout a quick bite, not allout combat) as an
act of complete alienation. It is part of the dance of dominance and
does not cause hard feelings to linger. Never having denied a dog the
right to sleep in my bed, I am rooting for you to assert your
dominance succesfully but change your mind about that.

Will in New Haven

--

> Deb.
> --http://www.scientific-art.com
>
> "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
> He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield
Debbie Wilson - 16 Mar 2007 20:16 GMT
> Her growling and snapping at undesired commands is probably a way of
> testing you to see if you really intend to be dominant. She is
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> right to sleep in my bed, I am rooting for you to assert your
> dominance succesfully but change your mind about that.

Thanks for your advice, Will, it is reassuring. I have heard the same
advice from someone else as well, who also knows a great deal about dogs
and who has now met Daisy, that it is not necessarily complete
alienation but possibly anxiety at her new surroundings, and has
suggested positive reinforcement of correct behaviour coupled with a
firm stance to make sure she knows we are top dogs! We'll have to see
about the sleeping on the bed! It's already rather crowded with us and
up to 4 cats in residence :-)

Deb.

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"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

Christina Websell - 15 Mar 2007 20:40 GMT
>> I have had to train several dogs that were in the habit of attacking
>> cats. None of these dogs could have been stopped by an ordinary
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> cats and attacked them, they wouldn't stand a chance. We seem to be
> lucky in that she won't go near them.

Teach her how to obey (her previous owners obviously didn't) and she will be
fine.  Get her to that dog school.  In six weeks you will be amazed how
wonderful she is.

Tweed
Ann - 14 Mar 2007 20:43 GMT
She is beautiful..
Ann

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> And World War 3 has not yet erupted ;-)  In fact, she is scared of the
> cats and won't cross their paths! I think they are learning this quite
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Deb.
Debbie Wilson - 15 Mar 2007 09:51 GMT
> She is beautiful..

Thanks!

Deb.
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"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

jofirey - 14 Mar 2007 21:53 GMT
> And World War 3 has not yet erupted ;-)  In fact, she is scared of the
> cats and won't cross their paths! I think they are learning this quite
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> sweet ears that perk right up when she is interested in something and
> stick out at angles the rest of the time.

She looks just like my first dog, Frisky.  Same Shepherd/Collie mix.  She
was a sweet smart dog.  And she wandered into our lives pre-trained as well.

Jo
Debbie Wilson - 15 Mar 2007 09:51 GMT
> She looks just like my first dog, Frisky.  Same Shepherd/Collie mix.  She
> was a sweet smart dog.  And she wandered into our lives pre-trained as well.

Bless her - and Daisy is certainly a smart dog, that's for sure.

Deb.
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"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

HRFLTiger - 15 Mar 2007 00:27 GMT
What a very sweet mutt. :) And I say that as an owner of a scruffy
black and tan collie x GSD, so I'm a little bias anyway. ;)

Handy hint for keep dogs away from catfood... Put a childgate with a
bar taken out between her and the area where you keep the cats food.
They can get through the bars, but she can't. Also, it's a great way
to help introductions - the mogs don't feel so threatened when they
can get in and out of the dogs space, and doggy can't follow them. The
dogs will ALWAYS go for the cat food. They'll do literally *ANYTHING*
to get it. Out of all the dogs I have had, not one has been able to
resist catfood if it's there.

HRFL says kiddy gates are also good for knocking dogs into shape -
apparently you can go in, wack them on the nose, and then run like
hell and they can't follow you! ;)

She looks lovely and she's got a beautiful face.I shall look forward
to meeting her! :)

Helen M
Debbie Wilson - 15 Mar 2007 09:51 GMT
> What a very sweet mutt. :) And I say that as an owner of a scruffy
> black and tan collie x GSD, so I'm a little bias anyway. ;)
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> She looks lovely and she's got a beautiful face.I shall look forward
> to meeting her! :)

The kiddy gate is a very good idea because she absolutely heads straight
for their food - she's a fast learner, and that was one cause of the
teeth-baring and snapping, when we told her off for that. Apart from
that though she is a smart girl and will immediately sit *and* offer her
paw when told. We just need to learn dog behaviour as it's certainly a
whole new ball game compared to the cats!

I thought she looked a bit like Bonnie :-)

Deb.

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"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

Christina Websell - 15 Mar 2007 21:14 GMT
>> What a very sweet mutt. :) And I say that as an owner of a scruffy
>> black and tan collie x GSD, so I'm a little bias anyway. ;)
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> paw when told. We just need to learn dog behaviour as it's certainly a
> whole new ball game compared to the cats!

I think I need to have a private word with you, Deb, about the difference
between dogs and cats with food.

Mail me.

Tweed
Adrian A - 15 Mar 2007 10:49 GMT
> What a very sweet mutt. :) And I say that as an owner of a scruffy
> black and tan collie x GSD, so I'm a little bias anyway. ;)
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Helen M

Of course many dogs are quite happy to eat cat food even if the cats have
eaten it first. ;-)
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polonca12000 - 17 Mar 2007 22:32 GMT
> And World War 3 has not yet erupted ;-)  In fact, she is scared of the
> cats and won't cross their paths! I think they are learning this quite
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Deb.

What a cute doggie! I'm glad to hear she gets along so well with the
kitties.
Best wishes,
Polonca and Soncek
Debbie Wilson - 20 Mar 2007 15:17 GMT
> What a cute doggie! I'm glad to hear she gets along so well with the
> kitties.

Thanks, Polonca!

Deb.
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He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

 
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