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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / February 2007Purrs for a Houston Kitty - Abuse Warning
There was a news story on TV here the past couple of nights about a boy who sicced his dog on a neighbor's cat and videotaped the dog savaging the cat to death. He spent all of about 10 minutes in jail and just said, sarcastically, "Well what do you expect from a teenager?" The poor cat was so tame and trusting that he didn't even try to run away from the dog! People have been up in arms about the almost non-existent jail time or any other consequences for this monster, rightly thinking that this is a serial killer in the making! So far the public outcry hasn't done a thing to bring about justice for this poor kitty and his devastated family. Hugs, CatNipped I got some of the info wrong (it was a stray cat that he and another teen had tied up). Here's the whole, correct story (warning, the video is very disturbing). http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=4986798 I would encourage all of you to write or call the Angleton District Attorney's office to urge them to prosecute this monster to the fullest extent of the law: Brazoria County of: District Attorney 315 Courthouse # A Angleton, TX 77515 (979) 864-1230 Hugs, CatNipped > I got some of the info wrong (it was a stray cat that he and another teen > had tied up). Here's the whole, correct story (warning, the video is very [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > CatNipped I hope nobody takes it out on the d*g. I am as sad as I can be about the cat and as angry at the alleged human being as can be but the d*g was doing what his man told him. He wouldl probaby thrown himself at a bear on the same command. It is too bad that this scum is not worthy of the devotion of a noble animal. Will in New Haven -- > I hope nobody takes it out on the d*g. I am as sad as I can be about > the cat and as angry at the alleged human being as can be but the d*g > was doing what his man told him. He wouldl probaby thrown himself at a > bear on the same command. It is too bad that this scum is not worthy > of the devotion of a noble animal. Okay, I'm prepared to be flamed for my opinion on this. If the dog had not been trained to attack it may have done nothing more than walked over and sniffed the cat or growled at the cat. This one had obviously been trained to be aggressive (and in fact, pits have been specifically bred to be aggressive for "pit fighting" for a couple of hundred years). So while *technically* it is the fault of the owner for reinforcing that tendency and issuing the attack command, there is nothing to say that dog won't cut loose all by itself one day and attack other animals or a child without being ordered to do so. I do not think pit bulls should be allowed as "pets". There are too many documented instances of even the most mild mannered pits suddenly losing it. I caught an episode on Judge Joe Brown yesterday in which a woman's dog had it's belly mauled to the point where its intestines were hanging out by a "sweet" pit bull whose owner had (stupidly) let off its leash in a public park. The pit bull's owner kept saying it wasn't fair that her dog had been euthanized. The judge had no sympathy for that; it nearly killed the other dog (which was on a leash) without the slightest provocation. The pit's owner kept saying "But he's not like that; he's never hurt anyone"... well guess what? He practically disemboweled this other dog. (The vet managed to save the dog, miraculously.) The photo they showed of the injuries on the plasma screen was so graphic they actually had to fuzz-out parts of it as if it was a porn photo. The people in the gallery could see the actual image, though, and it looked like some of them were going to puke. Pits do not equal pets. IMHO. Jill >> I hope nobody takes it out on the d*g. I am as sad as I can be about >> the cat and as angry at the alleged human being as can be but the d*g [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Jill I agree, Jill, in Britain it is illegal to own a Pit Bull.  SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart. http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk >> I hope nobody takes it out on the d*g. I am as sad as I can be about >> the cat and as angry at the alleged human being as can be but the d*g [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > >Jill I have a new next-door neighbor who has a pit bull terrier that must weigh 50 pounds or so. Every time it sees me, it starts barking and growling. I have decided that I had better buy some doggy treats and start tossing one to it whenever I see it, so that, if it ever gets loose, it will be more likely to view me as a friend than as an enemy. SignatureJohn F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria > >> I hope nobody takes it out on the d*g. I am as sad as I can be about > >> the cat and as angry at the alleged human being as can be but the d*g [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > - Show quoted text - You're braver than I am, John. If I were renting, I'd move. I like friendly dogs just fine. I'd even be okay with it if my neighbors were keeping a Doberman Pinscher provided the dog was well trained. But Pit Bulls are the canine equivalent of loose cannons. It's about as safe as keeping a Bengal tiger in your backyard, because they're unpredictable, and you don't know what will set them off. As Jill pointed out, they're bred to be aggressive, and it seems that most of them don't need a lot of encouragement in that direction. Melsisa >> I have a new next-door neighbor who has a pit bull terrier that must >> weigh 50 pounds or so. Every time it sees me, it starts barking and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >pointed out, they're bred to be aggressive, and it seems that most of >them don't need a lot of encouragement in that direction. Well, in this case, I own my house (I have been here for 15 years), and the new neighbors are renting their house. I have no intention of trying to pet the dog, just of tossing an occasional bribe in his direction, in hopes that, if he ever gets loose, he will be less likely to bite me. A previous family had a Siberian husky. While it was about the same size as this pit bull, it was much friendlier, and became friends with me within a few days after they moved in. Unfortunately, they weren't very reliable about remembering to tie it up, and it ran off after a couple of months and was not seen again. I don't know if it was run over, was taken to the dog pound (and then probably euthanized), or if it was adopted by someone else. SignatureJohn F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria ... >>> I have a new next-door neighbor who has a pit bull terrier that must >>> weigh 50 pounds or so. Every time it sees me, it starts barking and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>> likely to bite me. > John F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com John, As much as I don't like the idea of making it harder for pet owners to find a place to rent, especially those who are responsible and own certain breeds, you and your neighbors have a right not to feel threatened. By letting their dog bark and growl at you, these people are contributing to the problem. Have you met the renters, even to exchage a friendly greeting? Do they seem like reasonable people? Maybe you could knock on the door just to say hello and welcome to the neighborhood. If you can start out on a friendly footing, you could bring up the dog's agressive behavior and ask if it is O.K. with them to throw treats to the dog so he will be less likely to bite you if he gets out. They probably will insist that the dog would not hurt as much as a flea, but at least it will let them know that there is concern in the neighborhood about the dog's behavior. Of course, that doesn't make other neighbors (or their cats) any safer. But, at least if they give you permission to throw the treats, the owners of the dog won't be able to say that by doing so, you enticed the dog or teased it. If the neighbors don't seem to be the type you feel comfortable approaching, you could find out the names of the owner or rental managment company of the property and let them know that the renter has a large pit bull that acts in an agressive manner and that this neigbor allows it. The property owners might be concerned about their own liability should the dog hurt somebody. Meanwhile, speaking to the dog in a friendly manner so that it gets used to seeing you in your yard and does not consider you a threat, probably would do as much good as throwing treats over the fence. Annie > ... > > >>> I have a new next-door neighbor who has a pit bull terrier that must > >>> weigh 50 pounds or so. That's quite a bit heavier than pit bulls were traditionally but people started breeding them for size once the pressure to keep them at the thirty-pound weight was relaxed.* However, are you sure it's a pit bull? Every time it sees me, it starts barking and > >>> growling. If it is loose in the yard, it is very likely quite bored. Dogs loose, or tied, alone in the yard can become quite aggressive. Even more often, they simply have nothing else to do and bark and growl at anyone who passes by. Dogs are social animals. Being alone in the yard, even untied has no advantage over being in the house with their people woldn't BEAR used to bark and growl at people when Mick used to tie him in the yard instead of walking him. He is completely unaggressive, even when people come into the house and downright silly in his eagerness to befriend every person, dog or cat we meet on our walks. ...the new neighbors are renting their house. I have no > >>> intention of trying to pet the dog, just of tossing an occasional bribe > >>> in his direction, in hopes that, if he ever gets loose, he will be less > >>> likely to bite me. That isn't a terrible strategy at any rate, although I see nothing in your post that would make me worry about the dog if he were free. Other dogs and cats would probably more at risk and I don't know enough about this dog to say what kind of danger he would be to them. I can see that the majority on this ng are in accord with the anti-pit hysteria but "Our neighbors have a dog and he barks at me (or people in general) walking by when he is loose or tied in the yard" would not alarm me, no matter the breed. > > John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com > > John, ____________________________________________ > As much as I don't like the idea of making it harder for pet owners to find > a place to rent, especially those who are responsible and own certain > breeds, you and your neighbors have a right not to feel threatened. You can't have rights based on how you are going to feel. No one can predict how you might feel about something, You have a right not to BE threatened. > By letting their dog bark and growl at you, these people are contributing to > the problem. Dogs left out in the yard bark and growl. I don't approve of tying dogs out, or leaving them out loose, very much but it is legal and is much more of a problem for the dog than for people who happen to walk by. > Have you met the renters, even to exchage a friendly greeting? Do they seem > like reasonable people? Maybe you could knock on the door just to say [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > will let them know that there is concern in the neighborhood about the dog's > behavior. Well, that might prompt them to walk their damn dog, so it's a good idea. It's a good idea to get to know ones neighbors anyway. > Of course, that doesn't make other neighbors (or their cats) any safer. > But, at least if they give you permission to throw the treats, the owners of > the dog won't be able to say that by doing so, you enticed the dog or teased > it. Why would they be saying that? Are you thinking that anything is LIKELY to happen because of the tiny little bit of evidence in the original post? > If the neighbors don't seem to be the type you feel comfortable approaching, > you could find out the names of the owner or rental managment company of the > property and let them know that the renter has a large pit bull that acts in > an agressive manner and that this neigbor allows it. > The property owners might be concerned about their own liability should the > dog hurt somebody. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Annie It would probably do better, although throwing an occasional treat, with the owner's permission, might seal the deal. People who leave their dogs out are sometimes not all that responsible. Will in New Haven *The reason pit bulls were not bread for greater size in the bad old days of dogfighting: Pit-dog fighting involved matching voluntarily, no one HAD to give you a match, and no one would match his dog against yours if your dog were significantly bigger. If your dog were significantly smaller, of course, he would probably lose, so all the dogs were in the vicinity of the same size. The dogs were bred NOT to be human-aggressive by the simple expedient of putting down any dog that bit or otherwise attacked a human. Since the dogs were handled frequently by strangers in the middle of each of their matches and were put down if they bit one of these handlers, they were not much use as attack-dogs. Most of their descendants are still much more dangerous to rats, cats, mice and other dogs than to humans. They have to be controlled, of course, but so do most other breeds. Bear, our Lab, probably wouldn't hurt anyone but he still has to be supervised. My old Malemute, BD, had to have intensvie re-training after I got him or he would have been death on cats and other dogs, although no threat to humans. We had Airedales when I was a kid. It is a wonder they never killed anyone. One of them did have a pit-bull by the back of the neck and would have killed him if I hadn't broken them up. The mighty, dreadful pit ran "like a whipped cur" afterward and needed stitches. Will in New Haven -- "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." Samuel Beckett, "Worstward Ho", 1983 <snipped very reasonable arguments about dogs in yards> > The dogs were bred NOT to be human-aggressive by the simple expedient > of putting down any dog that bit or otherwise attacked a human. Since That's not going to convince me after hearing about the hundreds (yes, *HUNDREDS*) of children who have been mauled and/or killed over the years by pit bulls (it seems here in Houston where dog fighting is still a popular, though highly illegal, "sport" that there is a news story at least once a month about a child who has been attacked by them). There have even been cases of adults who have been killed by them. Sorry, but as much as I love dogs, I think this particular breed should be "unbred" out of existence - unfortunately as long as there is money to be made fighting them, or drugs to be protected by them, this seems unlikely to happen. SignatureHugs, CatNipped See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ > the dogs were handled frequently by strangers in the middle of each of > their matches and were put down if they bit one of these handlers, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > better." > Samuel Beckett, "Worstward Ho", 1983 >> ... >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >at the thirty-pound weight was relaxed.* However, are you sure it's a >pit bull? Well, it may be a cross-breed. The coat color is dark brown, and the body build resembles a boxer, but the head shape is that of a pit bull terrier, not a boxer. The dog is fastened to a steel cable, and the yard is surrounded by a three-foot-high fence. If the dog ever gets loose from the cable, he won't have any difficulty jumping over the fence. The current renters are four men, all apparently immigrants from Mexico, and don't speak much English. My Spanish is even more limited. Also, I am not sure which of the men the dog belongs to. SignatureJohn F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria > On 4 Feb 2007 14:07:31 -0800, "Will in New Haven" > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > body build resembles a boxer, but the head shape is that of a pit bull > terrier, not a boxer. You've seen it and I haven't. In any case, there are some big pits out there that are not the result of crossbreeding. Just breeding biggest to biggest has been suffiicient to produce sixty and eighty pound dogs from a breed that used to average thirty pounds and did not exceed forty. There are also breeds that are much bigger and much more human- aggressive than pits. There is a breed from Argentina that would worry me much more than a pitbull. > The dog is fastened to a steel cable, and the yard is surrounded by a > three-foot-high fence. If the dog ever gets loose from the cable, he > won't have any difficulty jumping over the fence. The current renters > are four men, all apparently immigrants from Mexico, and don't speak > much English. My Spanish is even more limited. Also, I am not sure > which of the men the dog belongs to. This method of keeping a dog, apart from the issue of the breed, is neither humane nor safe. A dog kept on a cable like that is going to be in a very bad mood, especially if the cable is short. If they don't feel that the dog belongs in their house and/or they are too lazy or stupid to walk him, they should not have a dog. My Spanish used to be quite good and I know what I would want to say to these men if I met them. "Tied in the yard" is a much worse danger sign than "pit bull." The fact that many pit bull owners are dangerous, aggressive people and/or lazy and stupid is also unfortunate. Good luck and I hope it turns out that the dog isn't dangerous. Will in New Haven -- > -- > John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com > PGP key available fromhttp://pgp.mit.edu > "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better > than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria > *The reason pit bulls were not bread for greater size in the bad old > days of dogfighting: Pit-dog fighting involved matching voluntarily, [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > better." > Samuel Beckett, "Worstward Ho", 1983 I'd have to agree with you, but IMO things have changed. Having owned part pitbulls (they are popular among the labourers/tradesmen my husband works with, and these dogs were foisted off on us for being 'too soft') and observed the people who breed and own them, I see a much more dangerous thing happening now. IMO since dog fighting has decreased, these people are no longer breeding them specifically to be agressive to other dogs. They are now breeding/training them to be agressive towards people, which accounts for the rise in attacks in recent times. This is just what I observe in Australia. And for owners to say 'i trained my dog not to be aggressive' or 'my dog wouldn't hurt a fly' is ignorant. The dogs are trained firstly by their mother and her owners, before you even get them. If the mother behaves aggressively towards people, and the owner reinforces this, and encourages aggressive play, the puppy doesnt forget this. Our pit bulls here worry me, because I see the breeders breeding them to be not just aggressive but unbalanced mentally, and encouraging anti social and psychotic behaviour with their training. I still maintain that these would be good dogs, if bred to be, and trained to be. One ancestor with a bad attitude in the last few generations is all it takes to introduce this. >>> I have a new next-door neighbor who has a pit bull terrier that must >>> weigh 50 pounds or so. Every time it sees me, it starts barking and [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > over, was taken to the dog pound (and then probably euthanized), or if > it was adopted by someone else. Hopefully it found a new home or homes. Husky's have one very bad trait as pets if they get loose. They run in a straight line and have very little homing instinct. By the time you know its out of the yard it can be miles away and still going. Jo > >>> I have a new next-door neighbor who has a pit bull terrier that must > >>> weigh 50 pounds or so. Every time it sees me, it starts barking and [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Jo The advantage of Labrador retrievers in this respect: The first time he finds a tennis ball or a baseball in someone's yard, he turns around and tries to bring it back to you. Of course, he can't find "home" but he is at least coming back in your general direction and, voila, you find him. And he gives you a new ball. Will in New Haven -- "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." Samuel Beckett, "Worstward Ho", 1983 >> Hopefully it found a new home or homes. Husky's have one very bad trait >> as [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Will in New Haven One of the warnings we got when we brought home a Border Collie, if you try to lie down and take a nap on the sofa, every toy they own will be lined up waiting for you when you wake up. It is really true, and heaven help me if I go to sleep with the back door open so she can also bring in her outdoor toys. Jo > >> Hopefully it found a new home or homes. Husky's have one very bad trait > >> as [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Bear, being a Lab, always makes sure that he has a toy near him. He knows that he cannot take a toy with him on a walk, so he brings one and leaves it just inside the door for when he returns. Of course, his favorite toys are Uncle Bill and Mommie Micki but he needs balls, beanbags, rubber duckies, etc. The cats will play with him but none of them likes to play for as long as he does and they let him know playtime is over. He also visits with Buddy Macaw but they don't exactly play. Buddy throws him food and watches him eat it. This is not unnapreciated. Does your BC have anyone to herd besides you? A flock of guinea pigs is a wonderful thing to watch as they are rounded up off the lawn. I saw a show last night on PBS where they were re-training rescued working dogs. A very fine trainer was working with a Beardie and her own BC was watching. Did you know that some Beared Collies have gotten into the Border Collie stud book because they won herding trials and the BC stud book, at that time anyway, did not have ancestry requirements, just performance requirements. Will in New Haven -- Will, may I jump in here and ask your opinion, as you seem to have a very good knowledge of dogs and their temperaments? We really want to get a dog, but one that will get on with our four cats. Are there any breeds that tend to be better in this respect than others? I know that greyhounds and lurchers are a definite no-no for starters! Or is it mainly down to each individual dog, and how he's been raised? I don't know if you are able to answer these questions but any advice from your experience would be valued - thanks! Deb. Signaturehttp://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield > Will, may I jump in here and ask your opinion, as you seem to have a > very good knowledge of dogs and their temperaments? We really want to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Deb. I've known several German Shepherds that have lived with cats without any problems, also Labradors and Golden Retievers seem to have very good temperaments, I have a video of two of my brother's kittens suckling on his Labrador. SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart. http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk > I've known several German Shepherds that have lived with cats without any > problems, also Labradors and Golden Retievers seem to have very good > temperaments, I have a video of two of my brother's kittens suckling on his > Labrador. Bless her, that would be such a wonderful sight :-)) I also know a very sweet-natured lab called Denzil, who lives with 3 cats, 6 chickens and 2 geese (and two friends of ours!) in Cornwall :-) Deb. Signaturehttp://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield >> I've known several German Shepherds that have lived with cats >> without any problems, also Labradors and Golden Retievers seem to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Deb. When I still lived in Wiltshire there was a GSD lived next door, Rosie (RB) used to sit on the fence and growel at her, the dog bought her toys and dropped them in front all the cats around. SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart. http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk >> Will, may I jump in here and ask your opinion, as you seem to have a >> very good knowledge of dogs and their temperaments? We really want to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >temperaments, I have a video of two of my brother's kittens suckling on his >Labrador. Ouch! ;) Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh Make Levees, Not War > Will, may I jump in here and ask your opinion, as you seem to have a > very good knowledge of dogs and their temperaments? We really want to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Deb. If you get a puppy and let the grown-up cats get to know him they will probably teach him to "seven times never hurt cats" fairly quickly and without hurting more than his feelings. However, there are breeds that are more cat-friendly than others. Most trouble with cats: Sled-dog breeds want to make sure they get their next meal. Sight-hounds (which includes lurchers) are natural chasers. Terriers are combative. The bulldog-masstiff breeds are very territorial, although the very biggest ones seem much less so toward cats. Even if you rasie one of these from puppyhood with cats you will have to evaluate every step of the way "are the cats going to be safe?" If you raise them like that, the answer will very very probably be yes but you would have to get rid of the dog if it isn't, so why start with one of these breeds? Least trouble with cats: Retrievers, like our Lab Bear, do seem to work out very well in multi-cat households, as do, in my experience, some of the less intense herding breeds. Border Collies are too intense for most people but multi-cat households with a BC are not unknown. A spaniel with an otherwise good temperment (in other words, not most American Cocker Spaniels but most other Spaniel breeds) is going to be fine. I would have just said bird dogs but I can't speak for pointers or Brittanys with cats. Poodles are ok with cats if the poodle is raised from puppyhood with cats. Some toy breeds, generally the ones that aren't terriers, are ok also. I know of two Newfoundlands raised from puppyhood with cats and they are both very nice with the cats. However, the giant breeds have other problems and don't live very long. Giving your heart for a dog to tear (to bring in Kipling again) is bad enough but six or eight years is too short a time. Of course, it's always too short a time. Will in New Haven -- > --http://www.scientific-art.com > > "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; > He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield > If you get a puppy and let the grown-up cats get to know him they will > probably teach him to "seven times never hurt cats" fairly quickly and > without hurting more than his feelings. However, there are breeds that > are more cat-friendly than others. It would be great to have a puppy, but as a long-time cat rescue fosterer, I want to consider adopting a rescue dog - but then, as a novice dog owner, I'm not sure how sensible that is! (snip very useful advice) I had a feeling the labs might be the top of the list :-) We work from home and live opposite several acres of woodland, so giving attention to a collie would not be out of the question - and as for other shepherding breeds, our former neighbour downstairs had the most wonderful GSD who we used to walk for her. She is a police dog handler and when he had to retire due to ill-health, he would be at home while she was out, so we took him for his walks to save him being alone and bored. Rebel was a wonderful dog, fantastically keen and well-trained, and she lost him far too young (7) to degenerative myelopathy. I would love to have a GSD around again. His replacement, Jasper is HUGE like a wolf and does his job very well :-) Here are three photos of Rebel taken on one of his summer woodland walks with us: http://www.zoobotanica.plus.com/rebel.html We're less keen on bulldog/boxer types, toy breeds and terriers anyway, and sled dogs are somewhat of a rarity here (Surrey, UK). Spaniels are a possibility, but having seen our neighbour's other police dog George, a drug-detecting springer spaniel, who is completely intense and a workaholic :-) I'm not sure if we could handle one like him! > However, the giant breeds have other problems and > don't live very long. Someone down the road from us has a Newfoundland which is the size of a small pony. It's a gorgeous dog but, enormous! > Giving your heart for a dog to tear (to bring in > Kipling again) is bad enough but six or eight years is too short a > time. Of course, it's always too short a time. All too true, sadly... Thanks very much for sharing your expertise, Will, much appreciated. Deb. Signaturehttp://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield > It would be great to have a puppy, but as a long-time cat rescue > fosterer, I want to consider adopting a rescue dog - but then, as a > novice dog owner, I'm not sure how sensible that is!//// It's perfectly feasible if you go somewhere like Battersea and explain your exact circumstances they will help match the right dog. All mine have been rescues, and by *VERY* careful introduction we've never had a problem. Bonnie was the latest, and you've met her. :) The Dogs Trust is also excellent for matching up the right dog, but Battersea temperament test the dogs with cats. Besides, why not get a puppy from either organisation? Failing that, Labs are great - get one young enough and I'm sure that Cocoa would have it whipped into shape & showing appropriate respect within the first 5 minutes of it arriving home! Helen M > The Dogs Trust is also excellent for matching up the right dog, but > Battersea temperament test the dogs with cats. > > Besides, why not get a puppy from either organisation? Possible - I was also thinking of Last Chance and Foal Farm, being very local. > Failing that, Labs are great - get one young enough and I'm sure that > Cocoa would have it whipped into shape & showing appropriate respect > within the first 5 minutes of it arriving home! No doubt about that! :-)) Deb. Signaturehttp://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield <snip> > Here are three photos of Rebel taken on one of his summer woodland > walks with us: > http://www.zoobotanica.plus.com/rebel.html What a beautiful animal. I wish I still had the photo of my brother's German Shepherd, Labrador and two cats all eating out of the same bowel at the same time. SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart. http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk > What a beautiful animal. I wish I still had the photo of my brother's German > Shepherd, Labrador and two cats all eating out of the same bowel at the same > time. Now that is tolerance :-) Deb. Signaturehttp://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield >> Will, may I jump in here and ask your opinion, as you seem to have a >> very good knowledge of dogs and their temperaments? We really want to >> get a dog, but one that will get on with our four cats. Are there any >> breeds that tend to be better in this respect than others? > Most trouble with cats: Sled-dog breeds want to make sure they get > their next meal. Sight-hounds (which includes lurchers) are natural [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have to evaluate every step of the way "are the cats going to be > safe?" > Least trouble with cats: Retrievers... > Border Collies are too [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > for pointers or Brittanys with cats. Poodles are ok with cats if the > poodle is raised from puppyhood with cats... Why not get a MIXED BREED dog?? Sounds like the purebreds come with various temperament problems. It's good to know what the individual breeds are like, because even with a mixed breed, the personalities of their ancestral breeds may be expressed. So probably it would be best to look for a mixed dog whose ancestors were compatible with cats. Still, a mixed breed dog is going to have a much better temperament than most purebreds. So they're more likely to get along with your cats. This is especially true if you decide to adopt an adult rescue dog. I feel bad for mixed breed dogs. Everyone, it seems, wants a purebred. Far fewer people seem focused on purebred cats - that seems to be a much smaller subset of people, who are fanciers for particular breeds. Or maybe I just don't hear as much about it. But, while it seems like most people are happy with moggies, it does seem like the average dog owner has or wants a purebred. I don't get it - what's that about? Joyce On Feb 5, 4:14 pm, jXwXeXrXmXoX...@sonic.net wrote: > > Debbie Wilson wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > their ancestral breeds may be expressed. So probably it would be best > to look for a mixed dog whose ancestors were compatible with cats. I love mixed-breed dogs and they are often compatible with cats. This is especially true if they are of an identifiable type and that type is compatible with cats. For instance, my SnowBall(RB) was a spaniel/ border collie mix. She looked more like the latter but she was much too mellow to be a BC. It was predictable that she would be ok with cats but probably not predictable that she would worship them and want to play with them. Some cats liked her but they still needed a rest when she visited. Other cats simply statyed away. A mixed breed might be more of a terrier type or a sled dog type and it would be best not to try that one with cats except under careful superivision. > Still, a mixed breed dog is going to have a much better temperament > than most purebreds. So they're more likely to get along with your cats. > This is especially true if you decide to adopt an adult rescue dog. I don't like to disagree here because it will look like I am slamming mixed breeds. Sixteen years with SnowBall, even if I had never met another mixed-breed, would make me bite my tongue before I do that. However, in defense of purebred dogs, I have to say that most of them are ok with cats and the ones who won't be you usually can identify in advance. > I feel bad for mixed breed dogs. Everyone, it seems, wants a purebred. > Far fewer people seem focused on purebred cats - that seems to be a much > smaller subset of people, who are fanciers for particular breeds. Or > maybe I just don't hear as much about it. But, while it seems like most > people are happy with moggies, it does seem like the average dog owner > has or wants a purebred. I don't get it - what's that about? I never acquired a purebred dog except when I was given one, my Malemute BD, or when I moved in with the owner, which is how Bear got his Uncle Bill. The appeal of purebred dogs is largely that one will know what one is getting when the dog grows up. Otherwise, unless you want some sheep herded or have some other specialized task for the dog, there isn't much to it. The DOGS sure don't care. People don't care as much about purebred cats because typical short- haired cats, even though not purebred, are very predictably going to grow up being cats. They never weight seventy pounds more than you expect or turn out to have floppy ears when you wanted straight up ears, not that that would matter to me. But seventy extra pounds might, if I lived in an apartment. Will in New Haven -- > Joyce >> But, while it seems like most people are happy with moggies, it >> does seem like the average dog owner has or wants a purebred. I >> don't get it - what's that about? > I never acquired a purebred dog except when I was given one, my > Malemute BD, or when I moved in with the owner, which is how Bear got > his Uncle Bill. The appeal of purebred dogs is largely that one will > know what one is getting when the dog grows up. Otherwise, unless you > want some sheep herded or have some other specialized task for the > dog, there isn't much to it. The DOGS sure don't care. > People don't care as much about purebred cats because typical short- > haired cats, even though not purebred, are very predictably going to > grow up being cats. They never weight seventy pounds more than you > expect or turn out to have floppy ears when you wanted straight up > ears, not that that would matter to me. But seventy extra pounds > might, if I lived in an apartment. Good answers, thanks! I've always assumed it was a status thing (which is probably why I feel somewhat annoyed by it). Maybe that's because in the wealthy part of the city I live in, everyone's walking around with a purebred dog at the end of the leash. Whereas you see more mutts in other parts of the city. I suppose both things could be true. Some people want predictability, and others want status. Maybe if you live in a small wealthy community, you wouldn't want to be seen with a "mere" mutt when everyone else is walking around with their expensive breeds. That said, there are certain breeds I like. I like poodles a lot, including (maybe even especially) miniature poodles. They're smart, playful, and really adorable. I also like border collies, although I'm sure a purebred BC would be too much for me! I might like a dog who was part BC, though. A friend of mine has a corgi/shepherd mix and he's wonderful. Pomeranians are very cute-looking, but I don't know much about their temperment. If I ever get a dog - and I'd need to be living in different circumstances for that - I would probably look for one that had one or more of the above breeds mixed in. Joyce > >> But, while it seems like most people are happy with moggies, it > >> does seem like the average dog owner has or wants a purebred. I [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Joyce One advantage of a purebred (especially a dog) is it far easier to rehome one when needed than to rehome a mixed breed. As far as status, the only thing I ever liked about Lyndon Johnson was his mutt of a dog. As I recall when he was asked why he had the mongrel, he answered, "because he likes me". Jo > the only thing I ever liked about Lyndon Johnson was his > mutt of a dog. As I recall when he was asked why he had the mongrel, he > answered, "because he likes me". Awww, good answer. Joyce > People don't care as much about purebred cats because typical short- > haired cats, even though not purebred, are very predictably going to > grow up being cats. They never weight seventy pounds more than you > expect or turn out to have floppy ears when you wanted straight up > ears, not that that would matter to me. But seventy extra pounds > might, if I lived in an apartment. Years ago a friend was offered a free puppy, really cute, mixed breed, but largely black Lab. It fairly rapidly became evident that either someone had confused the Newfoundland and Labrador breeds, or the bit that wasn't Lab was Newfoundland. A lovely animal, with the friendly temperament typical of both Labs and Newfoundlands, but my, did he ever grow fast. And big. SignatureCheryl > Years ago a friend was offered a free puppy, really cute, mixed breed, > but largely black Lab. It fairly rapidly became evident that either > someone had confused the Newfoundland and Labrador breeds, or the bit > that wasn't Lab was Newfoundland. A lovely animal, with the friendly > temperament typical of both Labs and Newfoundlands, but my, did he ever > grow fast. And big. OMG! Obviously someone with a good knowledge of Canadian geography, but less knowledge of dog breeds :-D Deb. Signaturehttp://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield >On Feb 5, 4:14 pm, jXwXeXrXmXoX...@sonic.net wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] >want some sheep herded or have some other specialized task for the >dog, there isn't much to it. The DOGS sure don't care. I think that the biggest problem is that people fall in love with how the dog *looks*. And then the dog acts like itself, not how the person wants it to. I'm crazy about Malemutes, BTW, but not brave enough to own one. Tell your Malemute WOO-WOO! from me. ;) >People don't care as much about purebred cats because typical short- >haired cats, even though not purebred, are very predictably going to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Will in New Haven Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh Make Levees, Not War > >> Will, may I jump in here and ask your opinion, as you seem to have a > >> very good knowledge of dogs and their temperaments? We really want to [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Joyce Maybe the unpredictable nature....not sure. Dogs are more of a status symbol ( I know, my cynicism is showing) traditionally in most cultures. I have a mostly staffy and a various terriers+some Shitzu of some sort, and I don't see the difference. > >> Will, may I jump in here and ask your opinion, as you seem to have a > >> very good knowledge of dogs and their temperaments? We really want to [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Joyce Just thought of the other reason....a cat is a cat is a cat. But a hound was bred/developed naturally/whatever to hunt, using nose, an english sheepdog to withstand harsh weather and guard sheep, hunting dogs to hunt....all this happened mostly by accident back when people groups relied on these dogs for their livelihood. So a dog that developed to hunt small furry running things might not be as good with cats as a dog that developed to protect and herd small furry running things. > Why not get a MIXED BREED dog?? Sounds like the purebreds come with > various temperament problems. It's good to know what the individual [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > people are happy with moggies, it does seem like the average dog owner > has or wants a purebred. I don't get it - what's that about? Oh believe me, we're not hung up on having a pure-bred dog at all. I was just wondering about the breed characteristics, which can apply to cross-bred just as easily, as you point out. A mutt is as perfect as any other dog :-) Deb. Signaturehttp://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield > Oh believe me, we're not hung up on having a pure-bred dog at all. I was > just wondering about the breed characteristics, which can apply to > cross-bred just as easily, as you point out. A mutt is as perfect as any > other dog :-) Sorry, guess I got a bit polemical about it. :) It's kind of a peeve of mine (ya think? :)). Not that I think nobody should ever have a purebred (dog OR cat), but it bugs me that everyone seems to want one, almost. Good luck in your doggie search! Joyce > Sorry, guess I got a bit polemical about it. :) It's kind of a peeve > of mine (ya think? :)). Not that I think nobody should ever have a > purebred (dog OR cat), but it bugs me that everyone seems to want one, > almost. No probs - I would feel exactly the same about someone overlooking a moggy when searching for a cat to adopt :-) > Good luck in your doggie search! Thanks! Deb. Signaturehttp://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield > >> Will, may I jump in here and ask your opinion, as you seem to have a > >> very good knowledge of dogs and their temperaments? We really want to [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > >Joyce Here in Brooklyn, dog=mutt. ;) Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh Make Levees, Not War > Will, may I jump in here and ask your opinion, as you seem to have a > very good knowledge of dogs and their temperaments? We really want to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Deb. Deb, just from what I've observed over years at the shelter, it seems like terriers are notorious cat-chasers. (Which makes sense, since they're bred to chase small animals). Of course, dachshunds are too; but our Doxie was a perfect gentleman around the cats. (after they trained him, of course). I really believe most any puppy would be okay raised with kitties. Sherry > Deb, just from what I've observed over years at the shelter, it seems > like terriers are notorious cat-chasers. (Which makes sense, since > they're bred to chase small animals). Of course, dachshunds are too; > but our Doxie was a perfect gentleman around the cats. (after they > trained him, of course). > I really believe most any puppy would be okay raised with kitties. Thanks Sherry - that's reassuring to hear. Of course, a puppy would be delightful, but my rescuer's conscience wants to help an adult dog too! I wonder which is better, for a complete dog novice! Deb. Signaturehttp://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield >> Deb, just from what I've observed over years at the shelter, it seems >> like terriers are notorious cat-chasers. (Which makes sense, since [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Deb. The last cat and dog, another GSD, that my brother owned were both rescued as adults and got on fine. The dog got a little jealous sometimes and tried to push the cat off my brother's lap, the cat just dug his claws in and hung on. Those two are still living together. SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart. http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk On Feb 5, 9:11?am, djmaiz...@mac.com (Debbie Wilson) wrote: > Will, may I jump in here and ask your opinion, as you seem to have a > very good knowledge of dogs and their temperaments? We really want to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Deb. Deb, just from what I've observed over years at the shelter, it seems like terriers are notorious cat-chasers. (Which makes sense, since they're bred to chase small animals). Of course, dachshunds are too; but our Doxie was a perfect gentleman around the cats. (after they trained him, of course). I really believe most any puppy would be okay raised with kitties. Sherry Yes, A good cat will train a dog very quickly!! I have a terrier that even catches birds (not sure how or why, silly dog) and jasmine has her pussy whipped. > On Feb 5, 9:11?am, djmaiz...@mac.com (Debbie Wilson) wrote: >> Will, may I jump in here and ask your opinion, as you seem to have a [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > catches birds (not sure how or why, silly dog) and jasmine has her pussy > whipped. Most cats are good teachers. Not all dogs are good learners. Kayla has an inch long slit in her right ear where Jake tried to explain to her that he didn't appreciate her nose in his butt. Jake the meezer was raised with our poodles and used to even wrestle with them. But he only has an uneasy truce with Kayla. Border Collies might be smart, but they are also very intense and have very one track minds, even to their own detriment. As an example, Kayla loves doggie cookies. But she will not even accept a cookie or a drink of water from me if we are at the park playing ball. Fortunately she will get in the car when I tell her to. (If I have the ball). And we can only play with one ball at the park. If there are more she won't fetch until you throw the last one, and you have to go get all the rest of them yourself. So if she is thinking "I'd like to sniff the cat" she can't at the same time think "The cat doesn't like to be sniffed". Jo (snip) > So if she is thinking "I'd like to sniff the cat" she can't at the same > time think "The cat doesn't like to be sniffed". I see what you mean! :-) And all the time the cat's thinking, "That dog's getting a smack... smack the dog... just one sniff and you're getting it...." Deb. Signaturehttp://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield > Yes, A good cat will train a dog very quickly!! I have a terrier that even > catches birds (not sure how or why, silly dog) and jasmine has her pussy > whipped. Pussy whipped, LOL :-)) Well, there are four potential trainers here, one of them very fierce! Deb. Signaturehttp://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield >> Yes, A good cat will train a dog very quickly!! I have a terrier that >> even [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Deb. rotflol the dog has no chance.... > Pussy whipped, LOL :-)) Well, there are four potential trainers here, > one of them very fierce! > > Deb. Trust me, Cocoa will have the d*g well and truly sorted within 5 minutes! ;) Bonnie doesn't DARE cross one of the Miles Felines. After all, as they keep informing her - she's no better than pond scum and they have been worshiped as Gods for 1000's of years. ;o) Helen M > Trust me, Cocoa will have the d*g well and truly sorted within 5 > minutes! ;) That's what I'm worried about! > Bonnie doesn't DARE cross one of the Miles Felines. After all, as they > keep informing her - she's no better than pond scum and they have been > worshiped as Gods for 1000's of years. ;o) We won't mention Anubis to them, then ;-) Deb. Signaturehttp://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield > > Bonnie doesn't DARE cross one of the Miles Felines. After all, as they > > keep informing her - she's no better than pond scum and they have been [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Deb./// HRFL has informed me that Anubis is a wuss and he could take him down with no problem. Of course, I doubt that HRFL actually has any idea of who Anubis really is! ;o) Helen M >>> Bonnie doesn't DARE cross one of the Miles Felines. After all, as >>> they keep informing her - she's no better than pond scum and they [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Helen M Everyone knows he's a Goa'uld system lord. ;o) SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart. http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk >>>> Bonnie doesn't DARE cross one of the Miles Felines. After all, as >>>> they keep informing her - she's no better than pond scum and they [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Everyone knows he's a Goa'uld system lord. ;o) Lol.. > > HRFL has informed me that Anubis is a wuss and he could take him down > > with no problem. Of course, I doubt that HRFL actually has any idea of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Everyone knows he's a Goa'uld system lord. ;o)//// Ah, but HRFL is convinced that he has the power of the Ancients. Presumably because his ancestors have been worshipped for 1000's of years, and my word does he know THAT fact! ;o) Miss Lily Whiskers, OTOH, is just convinced that it's her cuteness that gets her what she wants and has no delusions of grandeur!. :0) Helen M ...We really want to get a dog, but one that will get on with our four cats. Are there any breeds that tend to be better in this respect than others? ... > Deb. We've had several dogs that were good with cats. Sometimes we had the dogs first and other times the cats were there first. These dogs, except for a long-haired dachund, were mixed breeds and all but the last dog were shelter rescues. The first was a puppy, about 4 or 5 weeks old. Hard to say what mix she was, but she loved babies of any kind and did not have a jealous bone in her body. She was fine with a rabbit and guinea pigs our daughters had as pets, and kittens my sister brought by one day. We had a medium size short hair mix dog and the dachund when Jim brought home a 6 mo. old stray that had adopted him. It did not take the cat long to realize that he had nothing to fear from the dogs. A few months later, we got a kitten, who also fit right in. After a number of years, the dogs grew old and died and we were left with the two cats (neutered aging males). The daughters wanted a puppy, so we happened to be in the neighborhood of a pet shop and saw a little kitten-size black and tan daschund/terrier mix. We brought that puppy home, and the cats pretty much convinced her that she was a cat. One of my favorite memories is of the time some friends came over for a barbecue and brought their cocker spaniel. While we ate, both cats and both dogs were stretched out under the table at our feet as if they had been buddies all along and had not just met the cocker. I think that if you are more interested in compatibility than a certain breed, and your cats are not already used to a dog, you should look around for an adult dog who appeals to you and has already lived with a cat. Perhaps you could call a rescue group that has dogs and cats available and living in foster homes. Or, you could go to the local shelters. Or, your vet might know of a suitable dog that needs a home. Annie > I think that if you are more interested in compatibility than a certain > breed, and your cats are not already used to a dog, you should look around [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > living in foster homes. Or, you could go to the local shelters. Or, your > vet might know of a suitable dog that needs a home. Some wonderful anecdotes there, thanks Annie. Yes, I think we have to go and visit some shelters and speak to people :-) Deb. Signaturehttp://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield > Will, may I jump in here and ask your opinion, as you seem to have a > very good knowledge of dogs and their temperaments? We really want to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; > He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield I'm not Will, but of all the dogs we've had, the one that integrated most easily with the cats was our beagle, Kendra (RB) - she never challenged them and never took offense when they hissspitted at her; she just followed her nose and took it all in her stride. The caveat with beagles is that they come with their own challenges that are associated with their brains being dominated by their noses, making it sometimes difficult to train them. They are also excellent escape- artists and will wander when out, so you *must* have a well-fenced Fort Knox, um, yard (we ended up with 6-foot fences for a small beagle!). HTH. Tish > I'm not Will, but of all the dogs we've had, the one that integrated > most easily with the cats was our beagle, Kendra (RB) - she never [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Fort Knox, um, yard (we ended up with 6-foot fences for a small > beagle!). Wow! She sounded adorable...unfortunately 6-foot fences wouldn't be feasible around the whole garden, although it is all enclosed, so maybe not so possible, unfortunately. Deb. Signaturehttp://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield >> >> Hopefully it found a new home or homes. Husky's have one very bad >> >> trait [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > Will in New Haven Her herding in limited to us and the cats. She will not let me know if a stranger is at the door, but she makes a big fuss if one of our cats wants in and we are slow to notice. She is also obviously happier if everyone is in the same room. Right now Charlie is reading the paper in one room and I'm on the computer in another and she is half way between the two, watching and fussing a bit. I've figured out what my problem is with her training, now I have to figure out what to do about it. She is wonderful in an obedience class or during a training session. But she performs, she doesn't obey. As in she puts on a show if she figures its show time. But feels free to ignore me other times. For a couple of behaviors this is unacceptable, so we have out work cut out for us this summer. Jo >The advantage of Labrador retrievers in this respect: The first time >he finds a tennis ball or a baseball in someone's yard, he turns [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Will in New Haven They also bring home numerous miscellaneous deer parts, rabbit heads, etc. (I hate hunting season and hunters who do not properly dispose of the parts of their kill that they do not use.) SignatureHugs and Purrs, Nan and the Furkids >> >> I hope nobody takes it out on the d*g. I am as sad as I can be about >> >> the cat and as angry at the alleged human being as can be but the d*g [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > Melsisa Most of them are bred to be not actually agressive, but mentally unstable. They are the dog equivalent of psychopaths in many cases, due to deliberate breeding and upbringing. Here where I live they are trying to ban the breed. Right now you have to register that you have a dog with that breed type. You are required to carry a certain type of insurance and register that you have it. If you fail to do so the dog will be seized and the owner can face imprisonment and fines. You are also required to keep your dog on a leash at all times. And in your yard even if fenced you may not keep a dog in the front part and during the day hours you are required to keep it tethered even in your own yard I go for a walk almost everyday for about an hour to keep these old bones in shape. Just recently on my walk along a public sidewalk. I was strolling along when out of the corner of my eye here charge a white pit-bull growling and barking going right for me. Well it got a face full of pepper spray and when yelping off the owner came rushing out screaming at me. I told the a@@hole you are lucky I did not shot your dog; I always carry when I am outside my home. He called the cops and ended up backfiring on him. He got a ticket and the was the second instance of the dog doing this the dog has been seized and he is being fined and faces the judge from my understanding. Lat year when I was getting out of my truck and walking towards my house. I had to pit bulls charge out of the tree line. I fired multiple shots at the dogs while backing away. I missed but I did call the law the dogs had attacked an elderly couple hours before. The owner did not even know they were gone. her comment Not my dog they would not hurt a fly the had mauled the elderly couple his arm and her leg. Both dogs were put down and the owner was arrested. I am sorry I know I ma going to get flamed over this comment I know there are nice pit-bull but not matter what that gene is in them and they are a breed known to turn on its own master at the drop of the hat. With irresponsible owners the gene is brought out even more. I don't believe this breed should be available to the public with out major regulations and restrictions. Most shelters get a stray or abandoned pit-bull they are put down and never put up for adoption >> I hope nobody takes it out on the d*g. I am as sad as I can be about >> the cat and as angry at the alleged human being as can be but the d*g [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Jill > Most shelters get a stray or abandoned pit-bull they are put down and never > put up for adoption I think that is true for dogs who have had "attack" training, whatever the breed. Sad, because some of them might well be capable of rehabilitation, and the behaviour is really the owner's fault, but still..... you can't have potentially vicious dogs masquerading as normal pets. > Here where I live they are trying to ban the breed. Right now you > have to register that you have a dog with that breed type. You are [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > second instance of the dog doing this the dog has been seized and he > is being fined and faces the judge from my understanding. ........snip........... Damn! Nice restraint! I would have been arrested as I would have pepper sprayed the owner just for good measure. Andy >> Here where I live they are trying to ban the breed. Right now you >> have to register that you have a dog with that breed type. You are [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Andy I felt like it but I was thinking more of my foot in his a@@ would have worked better. I always tell people things come around 3 times fold from what you do. > I do not think pit bulls should be allowed as "pets". There are too many > documented instances of even the most mild mannered pits suddenly losing it. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > euthanized. The judge had no sympathy for that; it nearly killed the other > dog (which was on a leash) without the slightest provocation. But the owner was breaking the law by not having her pit bull on a leash, wasn't she? There's a very good reason for leash laws. However well-trained and well-behaved a dog may be in normal circumstances, no one can truly GUARANTEE its behaviour when it encounters strange dogs (or neighbors' cats). With a leash, the owner retains "emergency" control in unfamiliar situations - without one, the dog does what it chooses. (And, unless we can read both dogs' minds, how can we KNOW what non-verbal "provocation" might occur, with both owners totally unaware of it?) >> I do not think pit bulls should be allowed as "pets". There are too many >> documented instances of even the most mild mannered pits suddenly losing [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > unless we can read both dogs' minds, how can we KNOW what non-verbal > "provocation" might occur, with both owners totally unaware of it?) Some people can control some dogs totally by verbal command only. (This does not include me or Kayla) Our neighbors pit bull was accidentally out front and went after my stupid cat that was walking up to him. His owner said sit. The dog dropped like a rock. He was shaking he was working so hard to obey, but obey he did. Jo >> I hope nobody takes it out on the d*g. I am as sad as I can be about >> the cat and as angry at the alleged human being as can be but the d*g [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Pits do not equal pets. IMHO. Sadly I have to agree with you. Even though I had a neighbor with pit bulls I would have trusted with my life or my children. I did inadvertently end up trusting it with one of my cats lives. His dogs were beautifully trained and handled. But that is the exception, not the rule. I know of tigers that are exceptionally well trained and handled but I certainly don't want every idiot out there to be able to keep one as a pet. Jo > His dogs were beautifully trained and handled. > > But that is the exception, not the rule. I know of tigers that are > exceptionally well trained and handled but I certainly don't want every > idiot out there to be able to keep one as a pet.//// As you say, the exception rather than the rule. It sounds like as well as having well trained dogs, he's also a very responsible owner, and they don't place their dogs in situations that can get out of hand - if they do, it is an accidental error and there is enough discipline in the dog to control the behaviour - as evidenced by the fact your nieghbour made his pitbull sit, even when he wanted to go after the cat. Helen M >> His dogs were beautifully trained and handled. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Helen M And unfortunately pit bulls attract idiots, not owners like this for the most part, and get bred by idiots not people like this man. >>> His dogs were beautifully trained and handled. >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >And unfortunately pit bulls attract idiots, not owners like this for the >most part, and get bred by idiots not people like this man. I was staying out of this because passions rise so high, and I love pit bulls. Pit bulls are just the average family dog around here-- they've thoroughly permeated the shelter population, and when you go to the ASPCA to get a puppy, more often than not, you come out with some kind of pit-bull cross. You can't throw a rock and not hit a pit bull cross. That is because of what you said. Because twenty years ago, drug dealers and gang bangers started using them as their accessory of choice, and that has meant generations of lost, abandoned dogs and puppies, and God knows how many dead ones. So when a family around here wants a puppy, and doesn't want a purebred-- when they want to get a puppy that really needs a home, what they get, more often than not, is some flavor of pitbull. And there is a big difference between the dog that grows up in a typical middle-class Brooklyn home and the one that grows up tied down in some punk's yard. I'm not saying it's the dog for everyone. It probably NEEDS exactly the kind of discipline and expectation of good behavior it gets in one of those middle-class Brooklyn homes. But this is the truest thing I've read so far. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh Make Levees, Not War >>>> His dogs were beautifully trained and handled. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > Make Levees, Not War Absolutely. And I can only wish that the dogs find owners like the lovely girl down the road has. She looks nothing like the savage, raving beast the media portrays, she's your average retirees dog. I agree - I don't think pit bulls should be allowed as pets. They're too unpredictable, even when they haven't been trained to attack. |
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