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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / January 2007Can't take it anymore
Last month when I got my electric bill it was for usage Sept. 25 thru Oct. 23. I expected it to be lower than the previous bill, because the big heat wave had ended in mid-September and I had quit using so many fans. But no, it was 70kwh higher than the bill for the prior month. I asked about it when I went to pay it. I was also expecting to see a difference due to having switched all the light bulbs in the house to compact flourescents. So the latest bill arrived yesterday. Not only does it show an additional 30kwh more using than the last one but ALSO it says it is for usage from OCT. 23 thru NOV. 8 - which is only a little more than two weeks!!!!!! No, the rate per kwh has not been increased. There has got to be something wrong here, no way can I afford to pay HIGHER electric bills for SHORTER periods of time!!! I made the investment in efficient light bulbs specifically because I cannot afford electric bills over $30/month (as they were in the summer) all year round. I've spent most of this day deeply depressed. Slept for several hours this afternoon and crying all evening so far. Reading about Potjie got me started. I want so much to be free of the constant struggle, but no way can I leave these cats behind. I just feel like I am already dead!!!! > Last month when I got my electric bill it was for usage Sept. 25 thru Oct. > 23. I expected it to be lower than the previous bill, because the big heat [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > started. I want so much to be free of the constant struggle, but no way > can I leave these cats behind. I just feel like I am already dead!!!! Check with your power company. It's possible the Nov. 8 cutoff is an error. In fact, that seems likely, especially considering that it has been about 6 weeks since that date. MaryL > Check with your power company. It's possible the Nov. 8 cutoff is an > error. In fact, that seems likely, especially considering that it has been > about 6 weeks since that date. They always bill for about two months before the current date. In December I got the bill for October. In November I got the bill for September. Etc. >> Check with your power company. It's possible the Nov. 8 cutoff is an >> error. In fact, that seems likely, especially considering that it has >> been about 6 weeks since that date. > > They always bill for about two months before the current date. In December > I got the bill for October. In November I got the bill for September. Etc. That's very different from mine. I get my bill about 2 weeks after the billing date. I still think it would be worth checking since the bill only included about 2 weeks, but I know how frustrating it can be to deal with utilitiy companies. MaryL > That's very different from mine. I get my bill about 2 weeks after the > billing date. I still think it would be worth checking since the bill > only included about 2 weeks, but I know how frustrating it can be to deal > with utilitiy companies. I know there has to be something wrong and I hope they are not just trying to rip me off. If they want to rip people off, why don't they choose people who are not scraping for pennies? It is simply not possible that I used more electricity after the heat wave was over. I quit using the fans in mid September. And it was August when I changed the last of the light bulbs to compact fluorescent. I am not doing anything different now except using less electricity. I've also been really diligent about turning things off when not in use - lights, computer, tv, etc. My water heater is electric but I still only take a shower once a week for about five minutes. >> That's very different from mine. I get my bill about 2 weeks after the >> billing date. I still think it would be worth checking since the bill [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > electric but I still only take a shower once a week for about five > minutes. Have you asked them to check your meter to see if it is accurate? You might also try turning *everything* off my switching off your circuit breaker, then check to see if the meter is still running. If it is, that would clearly indicate a problem of some sort. MaryL > Have you asked them to check your meter to see if it is accurate? They give the option of sending your meter off to be checked. You have to pay $35 in advance for this, and if it comes back with a diagnosis of no problem, you are out $35. I can't afford to take that risk. > try turning *everything* off my switching off your circuit breaker, then > check to see if the meter is still running. If it is, that would clearly > indicate a problem of some sort. I'll do that tomorrow. If I can drag myself out there. I am so depressed today that I haven't been able to eat. I am sitting here with a growling stomach. Has been like that for more than six hours. I just want someone to talk to, and there is no one I can call. One more power saving thing you can do since you have electric water heater is turn the breaker for it off except for when you want to take a shower or do dishes. Plan well and you will only be heating that water for 20 or less hours a month instead of 188. And it is very likely your hot water heater is on a separate breaker. They usually are. Bridget >> Have you asked them to check your meter to see if it is accurate? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > stomach. Has been like that for more than six hours. I just want someone to > talk to, and there is no one I can call. > >> Have you asked them to check your meter to see if it is accurate? It makes me wonder if someone has tapped into your power line. It takes a lot of electricity to run marijuana grow-ops and often growers will tap other people's power lines, not only to avoid paying big hydro bills but because large bills to residential areas can tip off the cops. Good luck and Bright Blessings --Fil > One more power saving thing you can do since you have electric water > heater is turn the breaker for it off except for when you want to take a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Bridget Bridget, I think it takes more power to heat a cold tank of water up than to keep the tank hot. I have *the* most energy-efficient water heater made, it only holds 30 gallons, and I keep it set around 110 F. - just warm enough for a nice shower, not warm enough for a bath unless I add a stockpot full of boiling water from the stove. I wash dishes daily and that takes some hot water. Not much, but I am not going to let the dishes pile up just to save a few pennies on electricity. I also wash a load of white laundry now and then, and I use hot water for the wash cycle. My water consumption in gallons per month is around 500, so you know I am not using a lot of hot water. Most of this water goes to flushing the commode twice a day. I am sorry, can you see if they can do an assessment to tell you where you are using the juice, that doesn't seem at all right, Lee, who will pray for you > Last month when I got my electric bill it was for usage Sept. 25 thru Oct. > 23. I expected it to be lower than the previous bill, because the big heat [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > started. I want so much to be free of the constant struggle, but no way can > I leave these cats behind. I just feel like I am already dead!!!! > There has got to be something wrong here, no way can I afford to pay > HIGHER electric bills for SHORTER periods of time!!! I made the > investment in efficient light bulbs specifically because I cannot > afford electric bills over $30/month (as they were in the summer) all > year round. That used to happen to me. Every August I'd get a bill which was either way too high or way too low (once it showed no usage at all). Every year I'd complain to the company who said that the meter reader was definitely reading the meter each and every month. So I found out where and how to read the meter and whaddaya know? It was off, every month. So now I have a new meter reader and he hates me like poison, but he comes every month. Every single month. No more August surprises. Chak  SignatureIf I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner. --Tallulah Bankhead > Last month when I got my electric bill it was for usage Sept. 25 thru Oct. > 23. I expected it to be lower than the previous bill, because the big heat [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > started. I want so much to be free of the constant struggle, but no way > can I leave these cats behind. I just feel like I am already dead!!!! This will take some work, but may answer the mystery. Turn *everything* off, and shut off (or take out) the fuses. Make sure the meter stops moving (if it doesn't, you already have your answer). Now, tuen on/plug in all the fuses but don't turn on anything in the house. This will show you if there is some sort of 'leak' in the house wiring. Now turn on each appliance one at a time and note how much power it is drawing per minute, then multiply by 60 to get 'kilowatts per hour'. Check that rating against what you expect it to use. An appliance may be faulty, drawing out far too much current. Not only is is costing you alot in terms of electricity, if its sucking far more power than it should, its probably unsafe to use. If, after all that, there are no 'leaks' and no unexpectedly 'hungry' appliances, you need to start reading the meter very regularly. If you have the same routine every day, may I suggest reading the meter once a day for a week, keeping a diary of what appliances you used for approximatley how long. If its a weekly routine, read the meter one a week, keeping a diary of the electricty you use for a month. If the meter is out, have a big stink at them. Also, if you only shower once a week, you don't need to keep the hot water heater on all week. It would be cheaper to heat a whole tank of water once per week and enjoy a long hot luxurious shower that empties the whole tank of hot water than to maintain the temperature of a full tank of hot water for a whole week only to take 5 minutes worth out for your frugal shower. Sorry, can't be of more help. Yowie ($30 per month for electricty is about a third of what I pay) > This will take some work, but may answer the mystery. > > Turn *everything* off, and shut off (or take out) the fuses. Make sure the > meter stops moving (if it doesn't, you already have your answer). I did, and it did. > Now, tuen on/plug in all the fuses but don't turn on anything in the > house. I would have to go to the basement and shut off the water heater. Or else just not turn on that circuit. > This will show you if there is some sort of 'leak' in the house wiring. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > day for a week, keeping a diary of what appliances you used for > approximatley how long. I don't really have any "appliances" to speak of. The fridge, the computer, the TV and light bulbs are all I use. Now and then, a load of wash. > If its a weekly routine, read the meter one a week, keeping a diary of the > electricty you use for a month. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > of hot water than to maintain the temperature of a full tank of hot water > for a whole week only to take 5 minutes worth out for your frugal shower. I use a little hot water every day, for the dishes. Sometimes for laundry. And although I don't have a full shower every day, I do wash up - with warm water. Like I told Bridget, it takes a lot of power to warm the tank all the way. If I had $500 or so to spare, I would buy one of those on-demand water heaters. They are the ultimate in efficiency. It would pay for itself in a few years' time if not sooner. > Sorry, can't be of more help. > > Yowie > ($30 per month for electricty is about a third of what I pay) But you don't live alone, do you? I bet you have a lot more laundry to wash, and a lot more showers are taken in your house. > > This will take some work, but may answer the mystery. > > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > But you don't live alone, do you? I bet you have a lot more laundry to wash, > and a lot more showers are taken in your house. Sometimes electric companies charge a "minimum usage" fee, and the water company (usually your municipality).... *more than likely* does. It doesn't help to skimp on water especially, if your city is charging you a minimim 1000 gallon usage charge. We have an electric pump on the well that waters cattle a mile or so from the house. The bill is is always $18, even in winter when we don't even have the cattle over there and kilowatt usage is 0. Sherry > Sometimes electric companies charge a "minimum usage" fee Yes, the minimum is well under what any house with a fridge would use. > water company (usually your municipality).... *more than likely* does. Yes, 1k gallons/month. I stay under that. > It doesn't help to skimp on water especially, if your city is charging > you a minimim 1000 gallon usage charge. I don't skimp on water. I feel I could get by on a lot less and I would sure prefer to get by with less. I am sure than more than half my water use is for flushing the toilet. I would vastly prefer to use an outhouse or a composting toilet than waste all that water. Just because it wouldn't cost me more to double my water consumption, doesn't mean it's a good idea. > We have an electric pump on the well that waters cattle a mile or so > from the house. The bill is is always $18, even in winter when we don't > even have the cattle over there and kilowatt usage is 0. The city charges me $12/month to pick up the trash once a week. If not for the used cat litter (which wouldn't be there if I could afford to fence the yard), I'd be paying about $4.00/lb. to have my trash hauled off. I recycle everything I can, which leaves me with almost no trash. I see other houses putting out 4-5-6 huge black bags of trash EVERY WEEK. I am forced into subsidizing the laziness and wastefulness of these idiots, and that really burns me up!! >> This will take some work, but may answer the mystery. >> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > warm water. Like I told Bridget, it takes a lot of power to warm the tank > all the way. If you only use a little hot water a day, you'd be better off heating it in a kettle rather than taking it from your tap. Most clothes can be washed in cold water without a problem with modern detergents. Save up the clothes that *need* warm water to wash, and do it on the day you turn on the water heater to have your shower. > If I had $500 or so to spare, I would buy one of those on-demand water > heaters. They are the ultimate in efficiency. It would pay for itself in a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > But you don't live alone, do you? I bet you have a lot more laundry to > wash, and a lot more showers are taken in your house. Most certainly! And I am very lucky that my budget almost certainly also goes further than yours. I do, however, remember what its like being a poor struggling student where I spent an inordinate amount of time trying to avoid paying two utilities bills in the same fortnight. It was meant as a compliment that anyone could live so frugally a to have such a low bill, even thogh I know its too high for you. best of luck, Yowie > If you only use a little hot water a day, you'd be better off heating it > in a kettle rather than taking it from your tap. I'll need to buy a kettle. > Save up the clothes that *need* warm water to wash, and do it on > the day you turn on the water heater to have your shower. Yeah, you're right there. Gawd, this all makes me so mad! I wasn't supposed to have all this stress.... See, I would never have chosen to move to this area where I didn't know a soul all by myself. I came here with my ex and we were gonna build a home, in the country, with an outhouse and a wood stove and an on-demand water heater and a root cellar. A homestead, with a great big garden with two of us to share all the labor. We bought the land using half the money that my mom left me when she died for a downpayment, and the other half would have provided enough to make a good start on the house, then we would have gotten a construction loan to finish it, and the combination of payments on the land and the construction loan still would have been lower than paying rent somewhere. But a few months after we bought the land, he decided that he was better off living in South Africa with this woman he met in England, and I didn't know what was going on until two years later. Meanwhile he kept telling me that he would be back, but later than he originally planned. Finally he just quit contacting me altogether, and then one day he and the girlfriend flew over to the USA and walked into a branch of our bank, where he withdrew all the funds from our joint checking and savings accounts. He also had Social Security redirect his pension deposits elsewhere, so I was suddenly left with no funds to cover outstanding checks, on 60% less income each month. I would have preferred to stay in Arizona where I had friends nearby and a place to camp for as long as I pleased. A long-distance move, buying land, getting a divorce, losing the land, a financial mess, a few severe injuries and rotting teeth tossed into the mix, my mom dying, losing four beloved cats within two years, and having to move house 15 times between 1997 and 2000 (with no help), is too much stress and far, FAR from my plans. The kicker is I still love the bastard. He could come back right now and as long as he treated me well, I would not hold any of this against him. >> If you only use a little hot water a day, you'd be better off heating it >> in a kettle rather than taking it from your tap. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Gawd, this all makes me so mad! I wasn't supposed to have all this > stress.... Earlier you were having problems with your gas heater/stove. Is it the sort you can sit something on? I know a lot of people keep a pan of water on top of heating stoves just to keep moisture in the house in the winter. But it would also be handy for washing dishes. Still remembering grandma's coal stove with the water reservoir on the side of it for heating water. I keep blaming everyone else in my family for all my stress. I need the reminder that I'm perfectly capable of generating plenty all on my own. Jo > Earlier you were having problems with your gas heater/stove. Is it the > sort you can sit something on? I know a lot of people keep a pan of water > on top of heating stoves just to keep moisture in the house in the winter. > But it would also be handy for washing dishes. There's a picture that looks like what I have, in the upper left part of this page: http://www.comfortglow.com/kits.html one thing for you to keep track of is when he dies, if you were married for over ten years I think, you are entitled to widows benefits even if you are divorced, so if you were married that long make sure you keep tabs if you can, there is a website somewhere a gov't one I think where you put in the SSN and it tells you if they are alive or not, Lee > > If you only use a little hot water a day, you'd be better off heating it > > in a kettle rather than taking it from your tap. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > The kicker is I still love the bastard. He could come back right now and as > long as he treated me well, I would not hold any of this against him. >I would have preferred to stay in Arizona where I had friends nearby and a >place to camp for as long as I pleased. A long-distance move, buying land, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >The kicker is I still love the bastard. He could come back right now and as >long as he treated me well, I would not hold any of this against him. I'm so sorry, Pat. You do still have your kitties, and you have us, and you own a home, and your furnace works again. I hope you'll be able to get a handle on your other issues. >> If you only use a little hot water a day, you'd be better off heating it >> in a kettle rather than taking it from your tap. > > I'll need to buy a kettle. Pat, You can get a kettle for very little money at a garage, moving or estate sale. Thrift shops and places such as Good Will and Salvation Army also have these things. If you don't want a kettle, fine. You don't need to justify your decision to anyone.In that case, please disregard the above. If you do want to find a kettle, or take up any other possible solutions offered, before you start looking for reasons that you can't do it, please start looking for a way that you can do it. I know you as an intelligent, resourceful person who can solve problems when she sets out to do it. Fixing the heater recently is a good example. As for you electric bill, you can check with the power company to see if they provide level billing, where your bills are the same every month (an average of your usage). Also, some companies have a program to help people who are having problems paying their bills. Where we lived, it was called "Neighbor to Neighbor" and we added some money to our bill for the electric company to apply to bills of someone who was unable to pay. ******************* .> The kicker is I still love the bastard. He could come back right now and as > long as he treated me well, I would not hold any of this against him. Pat, The man moved you under the guise of working together to build a homestead, ran off and lied about it, took up with another woman, stole your money (including what was left of the money you inherited from your mother, which under the law probably was exclusively yours), left you with all the debt (which should have been half his) and apparently got away with it. Otherwise, you'd have a decree from the court as a result of your divorce. You can choose not to hold anything against him, but you've got to realize that love alone is not enough to hold a relationship together. It takes trust. If you found a rattlesnake in your yard and picked it up and it bit you, would you continue to pick up rattlesnakes? It's important to learn from experiences, both good and bad. I hope things start looking up for you. Annie >> as long as he treated me well, I would not hold any of this against him. > Pat, > The man moved you under the guise of working together to build a [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > It's important to learn from experiences, both good and bad. I didn't say I love what he did, but we are not what we do. Anything can be forgiven, if you love the person who did it. Maybe I'm an anomaly. I have been bitten by a rattlesnake, and I don't hate snakes. I was moving a rattlesnake off of a dirt road, near my driveway, so I could drive through and go home without killing the snake. Any snake can be picked up safely if you move very, very slowly. Just as my hand got near enough to the snake to pick it up, our dog came running up the driveway and startled the snake, and the snake bit my hand. The snake was trying to protect itself in the only way it knew how, and I can't hate the snake for that. In the same way, I can't hate my ex for his behavior. If he came back and it was evident that he had "grown up" enough to know why he did what he did, and to know that he could not do any similar thing again, I would be capable of recognizing the change, and if it was genuine, he would be welcome in my life in spite of the past. I think I am not able to feel the same, I hold no grudges against anyone who has wronged me, and there have been many, violent, and financial and emotional, but one time, my mistake, second time my fault, Lee > >> as long as he treated me well, I would not hold any of this against him. > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > thing again, I would be capable of recognizing the change, and if it was > genuine, he would be welcome in my life in spite of the past. >>> as long as he treated me well, I would not hold any of this against him. > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > my hand got near enough to the snake to pick it up, our dog came running > up the driveway and startled the snake, and the snake bit my hand. Wouldn't it have been safer to use a stick or branch to move the snake, if one was available -- or even to make noise or throw a clump of dirt to cause the snake to move away on its own? MaryL > Wouldn't it have been safer to use a stick or branch to move the snake, if > one was available -- or even to make noise or throw a clump of dirt to > cause the snake to move away on its own? No stick or branch was available there in that terrain. I figured if the noise of the approaching car hadn't scared the snake off, I wasn't going to move it by making more noise. It didn't occur to me to throw a clump of dirt, as I had handled many snakes without incident in the past. This time would have been the same if not for the dog. I have never had an irrational fear of snakes. Most people don't realize that snkes hoard their venom because it enables them to kill prey to eat, and they know that it doesn't have a bottomless reservoir. The snake is slow to use its venom in the absence of an obvious threat, and when you encounter a venomous snake the chances are quite high that it doesn't have enough venom available to harm you. This one didn't. I got a small bruise on my hand that lasted a couple of days, and no other symptoms of having been bitten. >> Wouldn't it have been safer to use a stick or branch to move the snake, >> if one was available -- or even to make noise or throw a clump of dirt to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I got a small bruise on my hand that lasted a couple of days, and no other > symptoms of having been bitten. Pat, This is dangerous misinformation to be spreading. Part of what you have written is accurate, but there is also distortion. What if someone were to read this and assume that it is safe to go around picking up rattlesnakes as long as we move slowly? We are not all Steve Irwin, you know (who was definitely not an "ordinary" or "untrained" person). Here is one site you may want to read. It discusses the fact that there are sometimes bite without venom being injected, known as "dry bites." However, it also says that *all* rattlesnake bites require medical treatment. http://www.calpoison.org/public/snakebite.html Here is another article. Interestingly, it says that noise will not frighten snakes because they are deaf! Unfortunately, this article also talks about various methods of trapping and destroying snakes (generally not something I would support, although it depends on the area and proximity to children). http://icwdm.org/handbook/reptiles/RattleSnakes.asp And here is a Wikipedia article, for those who may be interested in a bit more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rattlesnake MaryL > Here is another article. Interestingly, it says that noise will not > frighten snakes because they are deaf! They are deaf but they do feel vibrations. This is why I stomp around a lot if I see a snake, because that will warn it that some big animal is approaching and it will leave. It's what I did when I saw Frank facing down an adder on the island the other summer. SignatureMarina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/ Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki > Here is one site you may want to read. It discusses the fact that there > are sometimes bite without venom being injected, known as "dry bites." [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > MaryL I agree. A person won't know it's a dry bite for several minutes I would imagine.... however long it takes to suffer reaction to the venom. I'd advise getting thee to an emergency room immediately regardless any snake bite. I've also heard, but it's unconfirmed opinion, that one species of North American venomous snake is more prone to dry bites than another because temperment and "meanness". I've heard this directed towards all species. Hard to draw an accurate conclusion when you'll find somebody to say the same thing about each snake. I've heard some say a rattlesnake is the meanest, and others the cottonmouth and they'll never give dry bites but a copperhead will. Turn around and you'll find somebody else that will say copperheads will attack anything and not care about their venom storage. You can't go by hearsay. >> Here is one site you may want to read. It discusses the fact that there >> are sometimes bite without venom being injected, known as "dry bites." [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >copperheads will attack anything and not care about their venom storage. >You can't go by hearsay. I suspect that the "dryness" of the bite may depend more on how recently the snake last bit something than on its temperament. After all, if he just ate a field mouse a few minutes earlier, he probably used up most of his available poison supply. While I have never been bitten by a poisonous snake, I did receive a bite from a poisonous spider a few years ago. This was a brown recluse spider; their bite kills off the soft tissue around the bite site, sometimes resulting in a golf-ball-sized ulcer. In my case, fortunately, I got only a small amount of poison, resulting in a surface scar about half a centimeter across, but no deep-tissue damage. SignatureJohn F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria > >> Here is one site you may want to read. It discusses the fact that there > >> are sometimes bite without venom being injected, known as "dry bites." [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > used up most of his available poison supply.> -- > John F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com Bottom line is though, he's still a poisonous snake. Even if it doesn't instill fear in someone, it commands respect. No one should ever pick up a rattlesnake, IMO, unless you're an experienced snake-handler. This thread just makes me chuckle, though. This dumb song from the 70's pops in my head every time I come back to these posts. And it's true! (p.s.-John, you were very lucky with the fiddleback bite. Glad it wasn't worse. Those things can really do some damage ) THE SNAKE Al Wilson On her way to work one morning Down the path along side the lake A tender hearted woman saw a poor half frozen snake His pretty colored skin had been all frosted with the dew "Poor thing," she cried, "I'll take you in and I'll take care of you" (Chorus) "Take me in tender woman Take me in, for heaven's sake Take me in, tender woman," sighed the snake She wrapped him all cozy in a comforter of silk And laid him by her fireside with some honey and some milk She hurried home from work that night and soon as she arrived She found that pretty snake she'd taken to had bee revived Chorus She clutched him to her bosom, "You're so beautiful," she cried "But if I hadn't brought you in by now you might have died" She stroked his pretty skin again and kissed and held him tight Instead of saying thanks, the snake gave her a vicious bite Chorus "I saved you," cried the woman "And you've bitten me, but why? You know your bite is poisonous and now I'm going to die" "Oh shut up, silly woman," said the reptile with a grin "You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in" > THE SNAKE > Al Wilson > On her way to work one morning > Down the path along side the lake > A tender hearted woman saw a poor half frozen snake > His pretty colored skin had been all frosted with the dew > "Poor thing," she cried, "I'll take you in and I'll take care of you" <snip> Oh, that song makes me sad. I really *like* snakes. I would want to rescue one, too, in that situation. Of course, I'm not stupid enough to pick up an unfamiliar one, since I live in a rattlesnake area. I do *respect* them and the danger many snakes can pose. But I can also understand the woman's response, because I think they're beautiful, too. I guess it's supposed to be some kind of "tough love" song, but I think it blames the victim. I mean, who's really at fault here? A woman who is kindhearted but naive? Or someone (the person or devil the snake is supposed to represent) who is intent on killing the person who saves him? Why do we focus on how stupid the victim was rather than on how cruel the perp was? (OK, real snakes aren't "perps", but you know what I mean. This song is a metaphor. I mean, snakes don't talk either, but this one does.) I'm not complaining that you posted these lyrics (it was also a fun blast from the past - 9th grade, I think!), I just felt like going off on my own free-association about it. :) Joyce > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Joyce Heh. Yeah, me too. Except in 9th grade, I thought it was just a song about a woman who couldn't bear to see an animal suffer without helping it. Like I was at that age. Now I think it's a metaphor. Now it reminds me of the ladies from the Battered Woman's Shelter that I often get a chance to visit with because of that program at the humane society where we shelter their animals until they get their own place. IME, they are all really, really nice people. Too nice, and they've got this common thread--this extreme compassion and the desire to "save" people, or "change" them. They keep going back to the loser, even after they know damn well he is a snake. Of course there's more to it than that in their situations. But the song still make me think about them now. Sherry > Heh. Yeah, me too. Except in 9th grade, I thought it was just a song > about a woman who couldn't bear to see an animal suffer without helping > it. Like I was at that age. I'm still like that! :) (Actually, I'm a lot more like that than I was at 14, because I have a lot more awareness of the world around me.) > Now I think it's a metaphor. Now it reminds me of the ladies from the > Battered Woman's Shelter that I often get a chance to visit with > because of that program at the humane society where we shelter their > animals until they get their own place. That's so wonderful. Whenever I hear about a battering situation, I always worry that there might be animals taking abuse along with the people. And I think a lot of people won't leave a battering partner because they're afraid of what will happen to their pets. It's a lot like how it is in disasters - people die because they won't leave their pets behind. I'm really glad that city, state, and the federal governments have figured this out and have started taking animal safety into consideration. It's not just for the pet's safety, but also for the people's. > IME, they are all really, really nice people. Too nice, and they've got > this common thread--this extreme compassion and the desire to "save" > people, or "change" them. I don't think of this as "nice" so much as co-dependent. Really, when you get right down to it, this is controlling behavior. They think they can change another person. They don't recognize that their own power just doesn't extend that far. And the irony is that if you put all your energy into trying to control that which you have no control over, you will be even more powerless than if you just focused on yourself. Joyce >>> Here is one site you may want to read. It discusses the fact that there >>> are sometimes bite without venom being injected, known as "dry bites." [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > surface scar about half a centimeter across, but no deep-tissue > damage. The chances of a snake biting immediately after eating are slim since on average they eat far far far less than we do :) I believe vemon resupply is faster than that. Grace 2 things, if a snake, any snake, poisonous or not bit me it would kill me, my heart would either explode or just quit. and my cousin got bit on the big toe by a rattlesnake, she almost lost her leg over it, and she got all the proper medical emergency treatment, Lee, shuddering > > Wouldn't it have been safer to use a stick or branch to move the snake, if > > one was available -- or even to make noise or throw a clump of dirt to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > got a small bruise on my hand that lasted a couple of days, and no other > symptoms of having been bitten. >> Wouldn't it have been safer to use a stick or branch to move the >> snake, if one was available -- or even to make noise or throw a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > incident in the past. This time would have been the same if not for > the dog. I have never had an irrational fear of snakes. Good for you. I am cautious, but not afraid of, snakes. Cautious because, like an idiot, I cannot tell venomous from non-venomous until I get close, with some exceptions. A pet Ball Python, for example, strikes no fear in me, and I will want to hold and cuddle with it :) Also - a bit of fact I learned in grade school (Girl Scouts, to be exact): Snakes have no ears! Making noise would not have scared it off. Stomping or beating on the ground, however, would have helped as snakes have very sensitive belly-"skin" - they feel the approach of danger, or prey, not hear. Also, there is an area where rattlesnakes have "learned" to not rattle their tails at the approaching footsteps of humans. It seems that making their threatening noise has become more of a danger to them than a safety device. > Most people don't realize that snakes hoard their venom because it > enables them to kill prey to eat, and they know that it doesn't have [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > hand that lasted a couple of days, and no other symptoms of having > been bitten. >>> as long as he treated me well, I would not hold any of this against him. > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > similar thing again, I would be capable of recognizing the change, and if > it was genuine, he would be welcome in my life in spite of the past. I have really tried here, but if we are not what we do, that why does it matter what we do? What is the point of change? Yes, I believe hate is bad for me and forgiveness is good for me, but how am I to evaluate another person if not by what they have done? Sorry, I'm not going to be picking up any rattlesnakes. Not even reformed rattlesnakes. Jo > I have really tried here, but if we are not what we do, that why does it > matter what we do? What is the point of change? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Sorry, I'm not going to be picking up any rattlesnakes. Not even reformed > rattlesnakes. What if you were talking about your child? Would you stop loving him or her due to bad behavior? Would you not be glad to know they had changed? Would you still judge them by their past if they had? Do you think unconditional love is only for children? loving someone and putting yourself in harm's way are two defend things, I can feel any way I want to, it is how I behave to survive in the world that matters, Lee > > I have really tried here, but if we are not what we do, that why does it > > matter what we do? What is the point of change? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > you still judge them by their past if they had? Do you think unconditional > love is only for children? >> I have really tried here, but if we are not what we do, that why does it >> matter what we do? What is the point of change? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Would you still judge them by their past if they had? Do you think > unconditional love is only for children? I think it's called Tough Love Pat. You can love them but not accept their bad behavior. If this means letting the police department arrest your child when you could hide him or her instead, so be it. If this means supporting the court system in allowing to put this child behind bars if they committed a crime, as hard as it is, you can't protect them for their mistakes. Telling children not to come home, they're unwelcome etc because of severe drug use.... that's been done by many parents over time. They may be able to visit if they're clean but the relationship has been forever changed. I think this is what Annie was saying. You can continue to care about him, but not accept him as a trusted husband again. Grace > "Pat" <patricia251.catlitter@centurytel.net> wrote in message >> What if you were talking about your child? Would you stop loving him or >> her due to bad behavior? Would you not be glad to know they had changed? >> Would you still judge them by their past if they had? Do you think >> unconditional love is only for children? > I think it's called Tough Love Pat. You can love them but not accept their > bad behavior. > I think this is what Annie was saying. You can continue to care about him, > but not accept him as a trusted husband again. I think this is a valid response in many situations, but I also believe that some people can change, so I "never say never". Whether or not I would accept someone back who had treated me badly in the past would depend on a lot of different circumstances and information. For example, if there had been a pattern of repeated bad behavior, promises to do better, and then more bad behavior, I would be much less likely to accept that person in my life again than someone who had been basically decent and did one thing that really hurt me, and seemed sincerely sorry. I'm a pretty good judge of sincerity and can usually tell when someone is bullsh*tting me. On the other hand, there are some people who really, sincerely mean well, but who can't get it together to keep their promises - I'm not so good at ferreting those people out. If someone's deliberately trying to snow me, I can usually intuit that. But if someone genuinely means it when they say they'll do better - but they happen to be self- deluded, I can often be deluded right along with them. That's been a tough lesson for me. So, as much as I'm wary of people who've hurt me, and as much as I'm unwilling to put myself into situations where someone can continue to treat me badly, I also believe strongly in redemption - I think we all have the potential to redeem ourselves, and I also believe we all deserve it. But of course, that's for individual people to decide. I don't think that anyone *owes* another person a second chance. Joyce > What if you were talking about your child? Would you stop loving him or her > due to bad behavior? Would you not be glad to know they had changed? Would > you still judge them by their past if they had? Do you think unconditional > love is only for children? My two cents: My family always told me that their love for me wasn't going to deliver me from the consequences of my actions. If I did something wrong, I was going to pay the price for it in full. It didn't mean they "hated" me but it did mean that simply being sorry wasn't going to excuse reparation. Loving someone does not equal trusting them. Loving someone does not equal pardoning them. --Fil My family always told me that their love for me wasn't going to deliver me from the consequences of my actions. If I did something wrong, I was going to pay the price for it in full. It didn't mean they "hated" me but it did mean that simply being sorry wasn't going to excuse reparation. ...> --Fil When I was raising our daughters, they didn't always want to hear what I had to say. I told them that it was my job to teach them right from wrong and to look after them and I was going to do my job. I also said that they didn't have to listen and could disregard what I said, but the consequence were theirs. I told them I was not doing it for them. I was doing it for me so that I wouldn't have to feel guilty if they got into trouble. They couldn't argue with that and put up with me and they turned out to pretty great. Believe it or not, they even thanked me later. Annie > When I was raising our daughters, they didn't always want to hear what I had > to say. I told them that it was my job to teach them right from wrong and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > great. Believe it or not, they even thanked me later. > Annie Isn't it just lovely when they thank you? We had one particularly nasty episode during the teenaged years that had to do with a loser boyfriend. She was sure we had ruined her life. Many years later, she brought the subject up herself, thanked us, and said "You were right." Sherry > Isn't it just lovely when they thank you? > Sherry Yes. It's something to treasure. We also had one of those scary boyfriend episodes. Turns out he was a predator and the police intervened and he was in jail before that relationship got anywhere. Annie > >> as long as he treated me well, I would not hold any of this against him. > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > thing again, I would be capable of recognizing the change, and if it was > genuine, he would be welcome in my life in spite of the past. No way! Why didn't you just throw something at it?? For the record, I don't hate snakes either, and don't kill them. I wouldn't touch a rattle snake though. Sherry >>>> as long as he treated me well, I would not hold any of this >>>> against him. [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Sherry One of my memories of visiting Arkansas 25 years ago is holding a rattle snake under the supervision of someone who knew how to handle them. SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart. http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk > One of my memories of visiting Arkansas 25 years ago is holding a rattle > snake under the supervision of someone who knew how to handle them. > -- > Adrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera) Oooo. I know I couldn't have done that 25 years ago. I don't think I could do it now. Although I did make myself handle a bullsnake at a wildlife seminar once. I had such a fear of them it was almost phobic. If I saw one, I had this irrational fear it was going to chase me. I've really worked on this. Even Jake, the resident snake that took up in the cellar. He moved out of the cellar last summer and took up in the greenhouse. He still scares the piss out of me when I don't expect to see him. I even started turning the misters on just for him. I don't feed him though. That's where I draw the line. :-) Except the wildlife guy said Jake is most likely a girl. I should start calling him "Jake-quelyn." Sherry >> One of my memories of visiting Arkansas 25 years ago is holding a rattle >> snake under the supervision of someone who knew how to handle them. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Sherry I'm sure Jake-quelyn can find her own mouse but there is something infinitely humorous imagining you explain to the petshop guy that oh no, the cute little feeder rodent isn't for your pet python but your resident wild bullsnake instead. *grin* Gracie Grace, I sent you an email with phone numbers, did you get that? Julie > Grace, > I sent you an email with phone numbers, did you get that? > Julie I just did! It was in my spam folder, had to dig for it. stupid nortons. Sorry for not getting back to you Julie. Jody's been dead dog sick and I've been taking care of him. I'll shoot you an email in a little bit. Needless to say, we're still at home :( Grace Awwww, that is so nice of you to turn on the misters! A yard that has snakes is a healthy yard. We really like having garter snakes in the yard, I just have to be very careful when I mow. So far, so good... Rhonda > I even started turning the misters on just for him. I don't feed him > though. That's where I draw the line. :-) > Except the wildlife guy said Jake is most likely a girl. I should start > calling him "Jake-quelyn." > > Sherry >Awwww, that is so nice of you to turn on the misters! > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >> Sherry My father used to have a pair of garter snakes living in his yard. He named them Gus and Gertie. SignatureJohn F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria >>> as long as he treated me well, I would not hold any of this against him. > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > similar thing again, I would be capable of recognizing the change, and if > it was genuine, he would be welcome in my life in spite of the past. Look, Pat. I've been through a similar situation. My ex was alcoholic, lost all his jobs through violently attacking anyone who criticized him, brought us almost to bankruptcy. We "tried again" on many occasions. It didn't work. As fast as I was trying to earn money, he spent it on drink. I called it a day after 12 years. Don't try and put yourself back into something that didn't work. It's hard to manage alone, I know because I am in the same place. I am Ms Frugality, so I know where you are coming from. Put your water heater on for an hour or two when you want a shower or bath and set off your washing machine at the same time to wash your clothes. This will probably empty the tank. Keep it on for another half hour and there is enough to wash your dishes later. Then turn it off. Tweed > Put your water heater on for an hour or two when you want a shower or bath > and set off your washing machine at the same time to wash your clothes. > This will probably empty the tank. Keep it on for another half hour and > there is enough to wash your dishes later. Then turn it off. Yeah, you're right, it's just such a major hassle. I have to go outside, walk around the house, unlock the padlock on the basement, then unscrew the cover plates on both top and bottom burners, turn them down, screw the covers back on, lock the basement back up, etc. Or I could just turn off the breaker switch - if I knew which one it was! we used to do the breaker that was pretty easy and it felt like such a positive step, Lee > > Put your water heater on for an hour or two when you want a shower or bath > > and set off your washing machine at the same time to wash your clothes. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > covers back on, lock the basement back up, etc. Or I could just turn off the > breaker switch - if I knew which one it was! >> Put your water heater on for an hour or two when you want a shower or >> bath and set off your washing machine at the same time to wash your [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > covers back on, lock the basement back up, etc. Or I could just turn off > the breaker switch - if I knew which one it was! It does sound like a big hassle to do all that. You'll probably have to do it though to reduce your electricity bill. The switch for my water heater is in my spare bedroom. I'm on a tariff called "Economy 7" which gives cheaper nighttime electricity but timer for my water heater packed up a few weeks ago. I've already replaced it once since I lived here so I'm experimenting with "whether it's cheaper to get a new timer or better to switch the water heater on manually when I need it" I don't need the water from the tank to have a shower. My shower heats up cold water when it comes through to the shower head independently. I recommend that you get a kettle, if you can. Not only can you have a nice cup of tea, but two boils of it will give you enough for a good strip-wash daily. Otherwise heat up water in the largest saucepans you have. Tweed <who lived for many years once without a bathroom and hot water> > <who lived for many years once without a bathroom and hot water> I spent 9 years hauling water and living without electricity, phone, and indoor plumbing. Nearest well was a 14-mile round trip over unmaintained washboard road. I learned to conserve water. I had a wood stove and an outhouse, kerosene lamps, candles, a manual typewriter and no cell phone. Pat, I think you missed my point. I will try again. I'm trying to say that it's important to learn from past experiences. That is how we develop judgment to make decisions that will affect our present and our future. You believed in this man at one time. I assume that is because he treated you well. You made the decision to move with him and then found out he was the proverbial snake in the grass. From what you say, that is a lot of why you have the problems you now have. As for your ex, you said that you love him and if he came back, "as long as he treated me well, I would not hold any of this against him." Again, I did not imply that you do or should "hate" him, as you infer. As I said, it is your choice as to how you handle your opinion of him and/or his past actions. Of course you can pick up a snake with your bare hand if you choose to do so. And, of course, you don't hate the snake if it bites you. It is just being what it is: a poisonous snake. But, if you must move a poisonous snake, knowing from past experience what it is like to be bitten, can you think of a better way than your bare hand? Why take the risk? Again, we learn good judgement from past experiences. You say, "we are not what we do," I believe we make choices about what we do. I believe we have core values that make us who we are. Those values, and lessons learned from experience, are how we choose to act and how genuine we are in our actions. Therefore, what we choose to do is a darn good indicator of who we are. O.K., sometimes we make mistakes and regret them. We are not perfect, after all. You trusted your ex and got bitten. But, someone who would do what your ex did to you is a deliberate act and shows more than a lack of maturity and is not just a mistake. You said that you would take him back if he treated you well and "it was evident that he had "grown up" enough to know why he did what he did, and to know that he could not do any similar thing again, I would be capable of recognizing the change, and if it was genuine, he would be welcome in my life in spite of the past." This is not about a child caught with his hand in the cookie jar. It's about a grown person who would not mind causing great pain, destroying the dreams, and even ruining the life, if it came to that, of someone who loves him. I'll bet you wouldn't do that to someone else. Your core values are different than his. Otherwise, you would think his actions were just fine. And you would not rescue a snake from the road to avoid running over it. People do change, but it is because they see it to their own advantage. What would you consider evidence that he had matured and changed, if not by his actions, i.e., how he treated you? I'm assuming that he treated you well sometime in the past, or you would not have moved from your home and embarked on your plans with him. Then, he betrayed your trust. If he were to return and treat you well, how would you know that the change was genuine, if, as you believe, "we are not what we do"? What other evidence would there be? And how would it be to his advantage to change his ways? Again, I believe it is essential to how we live to consider and learn from past experiences to develop good judgment and not just repeat the same mistakes. I wish you the best and hope things go your way. Annie > O.K., sometimes we make mistakes and regret them. We are not perfect, > after all. You trusted your ex and got bitten. But, someone who would do > what your ex did to you is a deliberate act and shows more than a lack of > maturity and is not just a mistake. > You said that you would take him back if he treated you well and "it was > evident that he had "grown up" enough to know why he did what he did, and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > dreams, and even ruining the life, if it came to that, of someone who > loves him. > I'll bet you wouldn't do that to someone else. Your core values are > different than his. Otherwise, you would think his actions were just [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Annie Granted, he stuffed up big time. There is such a thing as true remorse, and I believe I would be able to recognize it in this man if he had it. We had been together 16 years. I thought I knew him well, but I did not know enough to protect myself. I do now. It would have to be evident that he had done the soul-searching and seen the errors of his ways, before I would consider letting him back into my life. He would have to verbalize what I know that he did not, with no prompting from me, and that, believe me, would be impossible to fake. It's hard for me to tell you in a short post the pertinent history of the marriage to an extent great enough to answer your questions adequately. But rest assured I understand what you are telling me. His leaving was an attempt to fill a need he has had since childhood, connected with his father. The other woman and all the bad consequences to me were incidental to his effort to fill that need. But such things are not resolved or healed in the way that we think they are, especially when the underlying need goes unrecognized. If he somehow comes to recognize why he has been following the road he is on and what is at the root of this unmet need (that can never be met until its nature is understood), that very realization will bring with it a crushing realization of the damage he has done along the way, along with (I would expect) a powerful urge to right the wrongs he has done, as much as that may be possible. Who would not rejoice in the knowledge that one was on the road to being a far better person? Like an alcoholic going through the 12 Step program and discovering why the urge toward self-destruction existed, and knowing that one has rooted it out forever, must be a tremendously satisfying experience. And it is a terrible thing to realize that a wrong done against another cannot be undone because the other is dead, but when that person is alive and open to forgiving, one finds great joy in the process, and that joy is the reward, the advantage. There is no mistaking that kind of change in a person. I appreciate your concern. I don't expect to ever see my ex again, or if I do, that it will be due to his having made a profound personal transformation. But if it does happen, I won't complain. Pat, I'm glad you now know how to take steps to protect yourself. By the way, you don't owe any of us an explanation or need to reveal any more of your life story than you choose. Thank you for understanding my concern for you and what I was trying to tell you. Annie > Pat, > > I'm glad you now know how to take steps to protect yourself. > > By the way, you don't owe any of us an explanation or need to reveal any > more of your life story than you choose. This is a good point. Not only are personal details unnecessary, but sometimes it is distinctly *unwise* to reveal too much. There can be unknown numbers of lurkers who may not be the "friendly" type, and far too much information is often disseminated via the Internet. -- MaryL > Thank you for understanding my concern for you and what I was trying to > tell you. > > Annie > > Pat, > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > -- > MaryL True. This group is so familiar with each other after so many years it's so easy to think it's "just us" talking. But that's far from true. Sherry I do have to argue here, we lived in an all electric apartment for a year and a half, when we turned off the hot water heater it saved us over 20 dollars a month and this was well over 20 years ago... what we did was turn it on in the morning and let it warm up, we bathed and let it heat up, when it was warm after the bathing we turned it off, it was warm enough for hand washing and dishes for the rest of the day, Lee > > This will take some work, but may answer the mystery. > > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > But you don't live alone, do you? I bet you have a lot more laundry to wash, > and a lot more showers are taken in your house. I went out and read the meter. Shows I've used 244kwh since the date of the last reading. There has to be something wrong with that date, or with the reading. It says Nov. 8, and I think it should be saying either Nov. 18, or 28, or Dec. 8. If it is supposed to be Dec. 8 then the number of KWH makes sense since it would be for a 6-week period. But then the current reading might be too high, because I probably would not have used 244kwh in three weeks. Seems like the mistake they *probably* made was the date should be Nov. 28, and they did not actually read the meter at that time. I've used 2030kwh since June 15, that is 6.5 months. Averages out to 312kwh/month, and half of that time billed for was hot summer. I would guess my hot-month usage would be around 325kwh or more and the rest under 300kwh, as the bills for last winter and spring when I was being billed for well under 300kwh/month would indicate. >Last month when I got my electric bill it was for usage Sept. 25 thru Oct. >23. I expected it to be lower than the previous bill, because the big heat [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >started. I want so much to be free of the constant struggle, but no way can >I leave these cats behind. I just feel like I am already dead!!!! Coming in very late to this, as you know, but hope things are looking up for you. Purrs on the way. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh Make Levees, Not War > Coming in very late to this, as you know, but hope things are looking > up for you. Purrs on the way. Theresa!! Glad you're back! What have you been up to? Joyce > > Coming in very late to this, as you know, but hope things are looking > > up for you. Purrs on the way. > >Theresa!! Glad you're back! What have you been up to? > >Joyce Long, silly story-- my computer died sometime after Thanksgiving, and I could not get the part I needed for several weeks. It was weird but oddly refreshing living outside the internet for a few week-- it's good to know I won't drop dead without it. But I missed RCPA. ;) As I mentioned in another posting, I'm now off to Florida for a few days to visit my dad, so I'll be gone again. But I'll be back in a week. And all kinds of purrs go out to all who need them, and all who don't, anyway. ;) Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh Make Levees, Not War
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