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Canned food experiment

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Bridget - 30 Dec 2006 13:29 GMT
I read all the posts about wet food and went to the various web pages
cited a month or two ago.  Thought about it and decided it made some
sense so I would try my guys on a wet food only diet to see what
happened to water consumption and general health.

I have been feeding wet food since the middle of November. My guys
normally go through a gallon of water a week for three of them. Since I
started them on wet food only, they've gone through less than half a
gallon total. That was a real eye opener for me.

I've been very careful to read the labels and get only the stuff that
has meat in the first three ingredients and not meat by products up
there real high or at all.  I've tried to stay away from a lot of fish.
And because of the kinds of food they will eat, it has to be ground up,
no pieces to chomp on or they will just lick the gravy and not eat.
Buying food for them has become as time consuming as buying for me!

Tony, my 13.5 year old cat has become more active and playful and
doesn't sleep as much. My two younger cats also play more - especially
chasing each other around the apartment. One of my cats has a spot that
he licks to excess, that is healing up. I have to admit that I was
dubious, but I'm becoming a believer.  It is more expensive and I don't
have a great budget for this in the first place, but they do seem to be
happier and healthier.

My next step is to try a homemade diet that I know has very high quality
ingredients in it.  I think it almost has to be cheaper than canned cat
food pound per pound. I will report back which diet I chose and how it
worked out and where I got the things like the taurine to add in to make
it complete so I know I'm not hurting them while I try this experiment.

Bridget
Pat - 30 Dec 2006 19:12 GMT
> My next step is to try a homemade diet that I know has very high quality
> ingredients in it.  I think it almost has to be cheaper than canned cat
> food pound per pound. I will report back which diet I chose and how it
> worked out and where I got the things like the taurine to add in to make
> it complete so I know I'm not hurting them while I try this experiment.

If you use organ meat you don't have to add taurine.
Marina - 30 Dec 2006 19:58 GMT
> My next step is to try a homemade diet that I know has very high quality
> ingredients in it.  I think it almost has to be cheaper than canned cat
> food pound per pound. I will report back which diet I chose and how it
> worked out and where I got the things like the taurine to add in to make
> it complete so I know I'm not hurting them while I try this experiment.

I've been comparing the cost of Miranda's fresh diet with the cost of a
wet food diet for a couple of years now, and fresh meat runs to
approximately the same cost as prime wet food. Sometimes it can even be
cheaper. I give Mir a supplement with vitamins and e.g. taurine every
day, and she is doing fine. I wish this supplement pill was available
over there, but it's a Finnish product, and I just checked the
manufacturer's web pages. They don't export this product. I'm wondering
why. They do export other animal-health products.

Signature

Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Gandalf - 31 Dec 2006 11:18 GMT
>I read all the posts about wet food and went to the various web pages
>cited a month or two ago.  Thought about it and decided it made some
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
>Bridget

May I ask what kind of canned food you are buying now?

I have often thought of feeding Kenzie canned food, but reading
ingredients in the pet stores has been disappointing, to say the least.

TIA

~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Life without cats would be only marginally worth living."
-TC, and the unmercifully, relentlessly, sweet calico kitty, Kenzie.

How you behave towards cats here below determines your status in Heaven.
- Robert Heinlein

Life is very difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier.
-
Christina Websell - 02 Jan 2007 20:18 GMT
>I read all the posts about wet food and went to the various web pages cited
>a month or two ago.  Thought about it and decided it made some sense so I
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> worked out and where I got the things like the taurine to add in to make
> it complete so I know I'm not hurting them while I try this experiment.

I always feed my two wet food.  Boyfie craves a bit of dry (I think he was
probably used to it before he came here)  so I let him have a couple of
tablespoonsful.  He cries for it if I don't give him just a little every
day.

The idea of dry food is great.   It has everything in it that a cat could
possibly need.   Just shake out some from the box and your cat is fed.

I'm not convinced that dry food is good for cats, or dogs.  They like it,
and eat until they feel full.  Then they drink some water, which swells the
food inside their stomach.  In dogs that are prone to gastric torsion
(bloodhounds, bull mastiffs etc) feeding a dry diet can be fatal.

I've also learned from the group that a dry food fed exclusively can cause
boycats to have urinary blockages.
I don't want that for my Boyfie.
If you work out a home made diet with taurine, I would be very interested to
hear about it.  Especially how to find taurine to add.
I think I could make up a diet for Kitty FC myself if I knew where I could
get the vitamins/minerals she also needs to add to it.
She's not all that keen on the kidney diet from the vet now, even though she
fell upon it when she first got it.
I would feed her only on white meat - easier for the kidneys - chicken,
fish, turkey if I could find a source for taurine and the other vits/mins
she needs.  Plus a tiny bit of carbs and vegs of course.

The natural diet for a cat is mousies and birdies and ratties.  They are wet
food, there is a lot of moisture there.  Not only that but eating the
feathers, bones and skin makes their bowels work perfectly.  Kitty FC has
lived as long as she has on this sort of diet.

It's not always possible to let your cats have a wild life, like mine, I
know, but from what I've learnt it's a bad idea to feed them exclusively
dry.
My vet says that feeding dry food for every meal "challenges the kidneys
eventually."

Tweed
Karen AKA Kajikit - 09 Jan 2007 02:04 GMT
>If you work out a home made diet with taurine, I would be very interested to
>hear about it.  Especially how to find taurine to add.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>fish, turkey if I could find a source for taurine and the other vits/mins
>she needs.  Plus a tiny bit of carbs and vegs of course.

You can buy kitty vitamins to add to raw food... I just did a quick
google search and taurine/vitamins are available in pill form (said to
be 'delicious' but I wonder if the person who described them that way
has ever actually pilled a cat?), or in a paste called Felivite, or as
a liquid. I think you can get powdered taurine as well... You can even
get taurine in capsules for humans and break the capsules open to use
the powder in smaller doses - taurine is taurine, and from what I saw
you can't overdose a cat with it for the same reason that they have to
eat it every day - it doesn't stay in their bodies!
sriddles@aol.com - 09 Jan 2007 02:31 GMT
> >If you work out a home made diet with taurine, I would be very interested to
> >hear about it.  Especially how to find taurine to add.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> you can't overdose a cat with it for the same reason that they have to
> eat it every day - it doesn't stay in their bodies!

After Cherokee had a stroke, the vet recommended extra taurine in his
diet, along with 1/4 of a baby aspirin every other day. This was years
ago, and taurine really wasn't available anywhere except through the
vet.
Marina - 09 Jan 2007 04:37 GMT
> You can buy kitty vitamins to add to raw food... I just did a quick
> google search and taurine/vitamins are available in pill form (said to
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> you can't overdose a cat with it for the same reason that they have to
> eat it every day - it doesn't stay in their bodies!

I don't know about the pill available over there, but Miranda certainly
loves her vitamin pills. It's the only thing explicitly manufactured for
cats that she will eat and actually likes. The paste sounds like it
could be the same as our Nutri-cal gel, which she also loves (it's for
animals in general, the package slip mentions cats, dogs and pigs).

Signature

Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Christina Websell - 10 Jan 2007 22:39 GMT
>>If you work out a home made diet with taurine, I would be very interested
>>to
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> you can't overdose a cat with it for the same reason that they have to
> eat it every day - it doesn't stay in their bodies!

I wonder if we can get taurine in the same way in the UK.  I'll ask at the
chemist shop, not at the vet, he will charge me 20x the real price.
In Germany apparently you can buy kidney diet food anywhere at a reasonable
price, not at a vet-inflated one.
Kitty got a little tin of it in my Christmas parcel from Nüle.  They both
got new dishes and Boyfie got a toy.  It was a small ball with a feather
attached.   He gave it a perfunctory push, decided it was not a real birdie
and walked away.  He's showed no interest in it since.
We have confessed about i to Germany, and it's okay!

Tweed
Marina - 11 Jan 2007 04:03 GMT
> I wonder if we can get taurine in the same way in the UK.  I'll ask at the
> chemist shop, not at the vet, he will charge me 20x the real price.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> and walked away.  He's showed no interest in it since.
> We have confessed about i to Germany, and it's okay!

LOL! Caliban thinks foil balls are the best toy ever, but then he likes
toys in general.

Here in Helsinki, most chemists carry the vitamin pills for cats that
I've mentioned. There's also a chemist's that specializes in animal
medicine and food, but I found that the kidney diet food was more
expensive there than at my vet's. But then, my vet imports stuff
directly, so that probably cuts back the price.

Signature

Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Takayuki - 11 Jan 2007 06:09 GMT
>LOL! Caliban thinks foil balls are the best toy ever, but then he likes
>toys in general.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>expensive there than at my vet's. But then, my vet imports stuff
>directly, so that probably cuts back the price.

Sorry, I was just picturing Yowie strolling around town with bottles
of vitamins in her pockets. :)
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 11 Jan 2007 08:21 GMT
>> I wonder if we can get taurine in the same way in the UK.  I'll ask
>> at the chemist shop, not at the vet, he will charge me 20x the real
>> price. [snip]

> Here in Helsinki, most chemists carry the vitamin pills for cats that
> I've mentioned. There's also a chemist's that specializes in animal
> medicine and food

I just want to say that to this American's ear, "chemist shop" sounds
so quaint, so... Harry Potter-ish. :) I assume you mean what we call a
pharmacy? A place to get your prescriptions filled and buy non-prescription
medicines?

Joyce
Marina - 11 Jan 2007 14:32 GMT
> I just want to say that to this American's ear, "chemist shop" sounds
> so quaint, so... Harry Potter-ish. :) I assume you mean what we call a
> pharmacy? A place to get your prescriptions filled and buy non-prescription
> medicines?

Yes, that's what I meant. I was following Tweed's lead. It's always a
bit of a problem to know what to call certain things and places that
aren't quite the same here as in English-speaking countries. The kind of
place I meant is called apteekki in Finnish, apotek in Swedish, but I
suspect you would have thought it was even more old-fashioned and quaint
if I'd called it an apothecary's... ;o)

Signature

Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 11 Jan 2007 18:38 GMT
> Yes, that's what I meant. I was following Tweed's lead. It's always a
> bit of a problem to know what to call certain things and places that
> aren't quite the same here as in English-speaking countries. The kind of
> place I meant is called apteekki in Finnish, apotek in Swedish

That's interesting. I wonder if the Finnish word was borrowed and modified
somewhat from the Swedish, or maybe both languages got their words from a
common ancestor? As far as I know, the Finnish language isn't related to
any of the other Scandinavian languages - nor to any other European
language, isn't that right? Yet the two words look similar, and in fact
look like they might be related to the word "apothecary" somewhere along
the line.

> but I
> suspect you would have thought it was even more old-fashioned and quaint
> if I'd called it an apothecary's... ;o)

LOL. Well, when I first read "chemist shop", I was thinking, "Oooo, you
can go to a chemist?" I was picturing a laboratory. :) Strange, the
associations that come up with different words.

Joyce
Marina - 11 Jan 2007 19:02 GMT
>  > Yes, that's what I meant. I was following Tweed's lead. It's always a
>  > bit of a problem to know what to call certain things and places that
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> look like they might be related to the word "apothecary" somewhere along
> the line.

Swedish is a Germanic language, like English, so we share a lot of
words, or at least we have lots of similar words. But you're right that
Finnish isn't even an Indo-European language. Finland has a long history
with Sweden, though, and there are lots of Swedish loans in Finnish.

Signature

Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Lisa Katt - 11 Jan 2007 22:15 GMT
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net skrev i meddelandet
<45a68417$0$80097$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>...

> > Yes, that's what I meant. I was following Tweed's lead. It's always a
> > bit of a problem to know what to call certain things and places that
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>look like they might be related to the word "apothecary" somewhere along
>the line.

The common ancestor word should be Greek.
Elisabet
William Hamblen - 12 Jan 2007 16:44 GMT
>That's interesting. I wonder if the Finnish word was borrowed and modified
>somewhat from the Swedish, or maybe both languages got their words from a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>look like they might be related to the word "apothecary" somewhere along
>the line.

Apothecary is from the Greek via Latin.  I guess that it got into
modern languages as a learned or technical word.

Bud
Signature

The night is just the shadow of the Earth.

Christina Websell - 13 Jan 2007 18:27 GMT
>> I just want to say that to this American's ear, "chemist shop" sounds
>> so quaint, so... Harry Potter-ish. :) I assume you mean what we call a
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> would have thought it was even more old-fashioned and quaint if I'd called
> it an apothecary's... ;o)

I find that amusing.  I've had a similar conversation with Nüle and she
translates it as "apothecary" too.
We were exchanging similes once.   I offered her "as rare as hen's teeth."
And "as rare as rocking horse sh*t."
She replied with (something like) "as rare as a horse vomiting in front of
an apothecary's shop."
LOL!
We made a deal a while ago.  I would be her English tutor if she would be my
homeopath.  It works pretty well!  We are friends, too, of course.    Her
English has improved out of all recognition through emailing and visits.  I
haven't needed much homeopathy, but I have used it whenever she has
recommended it, and she sends me the necessary in the post.  It definitely
helped swifter healing when I had my last eye operation - compared with the
last eye op when I didn't have the homeopathic remedy.

I'm a bit norty though.  There is something she says which I find
delightful.  I am guilty of not correcting it.
While walking down the road, a Toyota Yaris went past.  She exclaimed "I
have such a car."
I should have told her to say  "I have a car like that."

In my Christmas parcel I got a lovely mug.  "I got myself a lovely mug and
thought I should get Tina such a mug." in the following email.

Ah, I am torn between being a proper English tutor and getting delightful
phrases.
It's really hard!

Tweed
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 13 Jan 2007 23:06 GMT
> Ah, I am torn between being a proper English tutor and getting
> delightful phrases. It's really hard!

There, you see? That's how I feel about "the chemist shop". :) (NOT the
"proper English" part, just the delightful phrase part!)

Joyce
Christina Websell - 13 Jan 2007 17:55 GMT
> >> I wonder if we can get taurine in the same way in the UK.  I'll ask
> >> at the chemist shop, not at the vet, he will charge me 20x the real
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I just want to say that to this American's ear, "chemist shop" sounds
> so quaint, so... Harry Potter-ish. :)

<smile>  Does it?   Well, after all, Harry Potter *is* English (or rather
the stories were written by an Englishwoman.)

>I assume you mean what we call a
> pharmacy? A place to get your prescriptions filled and buy
> non-prescription
> medicines?

Yep, that's the place.  Sometimes has a sign outside that says "pharmacy"
but no-one I know calls it that.  We call it "the chemist's" short for
chemist's shop.   Maybe that's because there is always a qualified chemist
(pharmacist) there, rather than what you call a drug store where you buy
shampoo and stuff.

Tweed
John F. Eldredge - 14 Jan 2007 01:54 GMT
>> >> I wonder if we can get taurine in the same way in the UK.  I'll ask
>> >> at the chemist shop, not at the vet, he will charge me 20x the real
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>(pharmacist) there, rather than what you call a drug store where you buy
>shampoo and stuff.

I think that the British term "chemist" probably goes back to the days
when the pharmacist was likely to prepare the medicines from scratch,
frequently requiring a knowledge of chemistry.  These days, at least
in the USA, most drugs are manufactured by large industrial firms, and
the pharmacist dispenses these already-prepared medicines (and
hopefully spots potential drug interactions).  If the doctor
prescribes a non-standard dosage, or prescribes an ointment or liquid
form of a medicine normally available as pills, then the pharmacist
might do more of the preparation of the medicine.

Signature

John F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com
PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria


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