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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / November 2006Question on cooked chicken diet for cats with allergic skin conditions
As some of you know, my long haired cat has some sort of allergy that causes her to lick parts of her hind legs and feet which causes sores. The vet thinks its a granuloma problem as she's tested negative for ringworm and doesn't appear to have fleas (she's mainly white haired). She's currently on Triamcinolone (1 mg/day). Prednisolone seemed to stop working as she probably built up a tolerance to it. Anyway, I'm trying to wean her off of Fancy Feast. Removing wheat glutens and corn from her diet by using Hills Prescription Diet d/d didn't work. If I switch to a diet of cooked chicken, what chicken do I buy? I was looking at the Perdue skinless and boneless breast cuts in the supermarket which are 99% fat free. It says "no additives" and "mininal processing". I was thinking of giving her this in addition to Dermcaps from Drs. Foster and Smith. It's a vitamin supplement that's high in Omega oils, which are supposed to heal the skin for cats with allergic conditions. Comments and any advice would be appreciated. I know there's natural cat foods out there but I'm worried about going with a small food manufacturer out of fears of quality control. Some say because they're smaller distributors, they have better control, but I'm still a little leery. If only Purina would use their clout, and develop better and more extensive lines of food. Every time they introduce a "natural" food, I get excited, only to look at the ingredients and see the same byproducts and mixture of every protein under the sun. Sorry to digress. Has anyone had luck with the cooked chicken diet? You need to provide the taurine that Perdue leaves out. (Gosh, I'm glad they leave it out!) I tried liquid DermCaps on my granuloma kitty. He refused to eat food having the oil mixed in and gave me a real battle when I tried to give it by mouth. Capsules are probably better. Dr F&W's shipping and handling charge is hefty - sometimes better to buy locally. > Comments and any advice would be appreciated. I know there's natural > cat foods out there but I'm worried about going with a small food [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "natural" food, I get excited, only to look at the ingredients and see > the same byproducts and mixture of every protein under the sun. I would look at California Naturals chicken and brown rice canned cat food. I wouldn't call them a small company, and they have an excellent reputation. I just noticed my feed supply store has started carrying them so it is getting easier to find. The ingredients are (listed in order): Chicken Chicken Broth Herring Egg Ground Brown Rice Sunflower Oil Flaxseed Guar Gum Taurine Vitamins/Minerals  SignatureLynne > I would look at California Naturals chicken and brown rice canned cat > food. I wouldn't call them a small company, and they have an [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Taurine > Vitamins/Minerals Thanks for the advice but the mixture of different proteins is what I'm trying to avoid. There's fish, poultry and dairy in the above formulation. >> I would look at California Naturals chicken and brown rice canned cat >> food. I wouldn't call them a small company, and they have an [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > trying to avoid. There's fish, poultry and dairy in the above > formulation. Dairy? BTW when we are trying to avoid food allergy we use ground lamb with rice and or rolled oats. Jo > when we are trying to avoid food allergy we use ground lamb with rice > and or rolled oats. Rice is fine, oats contains gluten - in humans there are some people who can tolerate oat gluten but not wheat gluten, but it's much more common for people to be intolerant to both. I haven't found a good description of coeliac disease in cats, but that's obviously what Splodge has got. He's splendidly healthy now, but while he was a kitten and still getting catfood with "cereals" in it, it looked like he was going to waste away and die. He still gets godawful smelly diarrhoea after even tiny traces of wheat. ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ============== Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760 <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975 stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557 >> I would look at California Naturals chicken and brown rice canned cat >> food. I wouldn't call them a small company, and they have an [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > trying to avoid. There's fish, poultry and dairy in the above > formulation. Many brands of Fancy Feast have a single meat source, if I recall correctly. > Thanks for the advice but the mixture of different proteins is what > I'm trying to avoid. There's fish, poultry and dairy in the above > formulation. oh sorry! I must have misread your post. I would worry about canned food having trace elements of what you are trying to avoid. I think a home prepared diet might be safest for your cat, with the proper supplements added (such as Taurine). I know it sounds overwhelming to think about, but if you cook in batches, it's not too bad. I have a dog who eats only baked chicken and white rice. We cook for her 2-3 times a week and it's pretty simple, especially once you get into the routine. I buy frozen boneless, skinless plain chicken breasts, cover them in water and bake. Then I use the water from the pan I baked the chicken in to prepare the rice (adding what I need from the tap). She LOVES her homecooked meals. SignatureLynne "Every once in a while, the tables are turned and we get to share our lives with an animal who takes care of their human." - Tara, rpdb > I know it sounds overwhelming to think about, but if you cook in batches, > it's not too bad. I have a dog who eats only baked chicken and white rice. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I baked the chicken in to prepare the rice (adding what I need from the > tap). She LOVES her homecooked meals. That might be okay for a dog, but a cat needs much more calcium. Added bone from whatever source would be essential. ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ============== Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760 <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975 stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557 on Wed, 15 Nov 2006 22:04:03 GMT, Jack Campin - bogus address <bogus@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote: > That might be okay for a dog, but a cat needs much more calcium. Added > bone from whatever source would be essential. I wasn't recommending the same diet for a cat. Just illustrating that it's do-able to prepare food for any pet. I agree that chicken and rice wouldn't work for a cat. Can a cat eat raw chicken with bones safely? If so, that might be even simpler. Obviously cooked bones are out of the question. SignatureLynne "Every once in a while, the tables are turned and we get to share our lives with an animal who takes care of their human." - Tara, rpdb > I agree that chicken and rice wouldn't work for a cat. Can a cat eat raw > chicken with bones safely? If so, that might be even simpler. Obviously > cooked bones are out of the question. I've thought about that; the problem is that chickens are much larger than the prey cats evolved to deal with, so they wouldn't even try to eat the bones. Some sort of really powerful blender ought to do the trick, that's what the catfood manufacturers use. Bones are obviously something cats really, really like. The one time you could be sure Ishmael would pull rank as Boss Cat was when there was a big warm bone to chew on. Macho "keep off!" growls that would do credit to a puma. ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ============== Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760 <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975 stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557 on Wed, 15 Nov 2006 23:39:01 GMT, Jack Campin - bogus address <bogus@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote: > I've thought about that; the problem is that chickens are much larger > than the prey cats evolved to deal with, so they wouldn't even try to > eat the bones. Some sort of really powerful blender ought to do the > trick, that's what the catfood manufacturers use. I'll bet a good food processor with a steel blade would do the trick. Add some chunks of raw chicken to the mash and I imagine a kitty would be in heaven! > Bones are obviously something cats really, really like. The one time > you could be sure Ishmael would pull rank as Boss Cat was when there > was a big warm bone to chew on. Macho "keep off!" growls that would > do credit to a puma. I'm always so amused when my little kitties emit those kind of growls! SignatureLynne "Every once in a while, the tables are turned and we get to share our lives with an animal who takes care of their human." - Tara, rpdb >> I agree that chicken and rice wouldn't work for a cat. Can a cat eat raw >> chicken with bones safely? If so, that might be even simpler. Obviously [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > was a big warm bone to chew on. Macho "keep off!" growls that would > do credit to a puma. I'd be careful with blending bones though; even uncooked chicken bones can be very sharp when ground up, and will get stuck in a cat's mouth, throat or gut and may cause severe health problems. We've had to outlaw even chicken necks after a few nasty incidents. If you really want to home cook your food, as Phil said, don't do it unless you know what you're doing. Improperly stored food can cause gastro, and some pet meats, if not prepared correctly by the manufacturer, can carry parasites. If you are serious about it and don't mind putting the work in, talk to your vet, and don't even think about home cooking unless you are adding a proper cat vitamin supplement to the mix, as a 'just in case' measure. This should give the calcium as well; check it with your vet. Good luck!! > I've thought about that; the problem is that chickens are much larger > than the prey cats evolved to deal with, so they wouldn't even try to > eat the bones. Some sort of really powerful blender ought to do the > trick, that's what the catfood manufacturers use. My cats sometimes eat chicken wings, bones and all. My niece knows a breeder who feeds her cats only chicken wings, and they thrive on that. Of course, it's not to be recommended in areas where salmonella is commonly found in chicken. Though I've also heard the theory that cats' metabolisms are so fast that salmonella doesn't have time to 'take.' SignatureMarina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/ Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki > > I've thought about that; the problem is that chickens are much larger > > than the prey cats evolved to deal with, so they wouldn't even try to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > -- > Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. I asked a vet once, and he told me that salmonella isn't the issue with cats that it is with humans. I also know a lot of folks who give their cats raw wings. I haven't yet, although I know especially Frank would probably love it. He's my beg-at-the-counter for bits of raw meat kitty. Sherry > I asked a vet once, and he told me that salmonella isn't the issue with > cats that it is with humans. I also know a lot of folks who give their [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Sherry Hi Sherry, I've been feeding my cats a homemade raw diet for about 6 years now and never had a problem with salmonella. I'm also on a list of about 1,000 members and I don't recall ever hearing about a case of salmonella. As with our own food, safety precautions in the handling should be taken. Cats eat their prey raw, and they're better able than us to resist salmonella. Their digestive tracts are shorter than ours and their stomachs are very acidic which helps them digest raw meat. In rec.pets.cats.anecdotes PawsForThought <mickey4paws@gmail.com> wrote: > I've been feeding my cats a homemade raw diet for about 6 years now and > never had a problem with salmonella. I'm also on a list of about 1,000 > members and I don't recall ever hearing about a case of salmonella. I remember a woman on this list whose cat had a severe case of salmonella and almost died, several years ago. So I guess it can happen sometimes. > Cats eat their prey raw Yes, but that prey is usually freshly killed and hasn't had time to rot. (Cats don't usually eat carrion, do they? I know that lions steal kills from other animals, but those are usually fresh, too.) Salmonella isn't a problem with prey animals in the wild - it's mostly an issue on farms, especially when chickens are kept in very close proximity to each other. Joyce Though I've also heard the theory that cats' > metabolisms are so fast that salmonella doesn't have time to 'take.' Its not their metabolism that makes cats resistant to salmonella- unless they're stressed- its the acidity of their stomach (pH 1 or 2). However, salmonella that skirts or survives the stomach's acidity can get into the blood and eventually the saliva. When the cat grooms herself or other cats in the house, she can contaminate their coats and subsequently the environment-- salmonella can survive for a long time outside of the host; so, fromite transmission to humans and other cats can also happen. Phil >> I agree that chicken and rice wouldn't work for a cat. Can a cat eat raw >> chicken with bones safely? If so, that might be even simpler. Obviously [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > was a big warm bone to chew on. Macho "keep off!" growls that would > do credit to a puma. That brings back a very old memory of the first time we saw our Sam. We had only been in Alaska for a few months, and were looking for a Siamese kitten. When we arrived at the house to check the litter out, eight tiny little Siamese kittens were ranged along a caribou leg bone in the family garage. Gnawing their little hearts out and growling like the fierce wild animals they thought they were. Jo > on Wed, 15 Nov 2006 22:04:03 GMT, Jack Campin - bogus address > <bogus@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > -- > Lynne Check out the site that Paws for Thought listed: This is a good site that might have information you're looking for: www.catinfo.org It has step by step instructions for making raw food. the author uses a meat grinder to grind up the raw meat with bones. You can also purchase a raw diet if this seems overwhelming (like it does to me). I put Nature's Variety raw. Not sure about chicken as I'm not in your area, but I've had great success feeding chicken and kangaroo mince. My clowder react to a lot of commercial foods with diarhea and/or hurking and as they are mostly littermates & mother I think it's genetic. i give them mince with some grated carrot, a small amount of quick cooking oats, some cold pressed olive oil, an occasional egg yolk, and vitamin powder (including taurine of course) mixed in. Ever since I changed them, there is no smelly pooping, flatulence, and regurgitating as previously experienced. They are all healthy and shiny, have great immune systems andno hairball trouble anymore either. So I'd definitely say go ahead, as it's the only way I was able to solve my allergy problems. >Not sure about chicken as I'm not in your area, but I've had great success >feeding chicken and kangaroo mince. I'm all out of Kangaroo so I called my supermarket and they seem to be as well :-) -mhd >>Not sure about chicken as I'm not in your area, but I've had great success >>feeding chicken and kangaroo mince. > > I'm all out of Kangaroo so I called my supermarket and they seem to be > as well :-) > -mhd Lol Really? well there's plenty here if you want some....skippy seems to be very high on the pet ingredients list for some reason :) >>>Not sure about chicken as I'm not in your area, but I've had great success >>>feeding chicken and kangaroo mince. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Lol Really? well there's plenty here if you want some....skippy seems to be >very high on the pet ingredients list for some reason :) That to me seems sad just like eating Flipper would be :-) -mhd >>Not sure about chicken as I'm not in your area, but I've had great success >>feeding chicken and kangaroo mince. > > I'm all out of Kangaroo so I called my supermarket and they seem to be > as well :-) I imagine you would not be feeding it to breeder cats, in any case. >>>Not sure about chicken as I'm not in your area, but I've had great success >>>feeding chicken and kangaroo mince. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >I imagine you would not be feeding it to breeder cats, in any case. Breeder cats? Do you mean cats for breeding or cats from breeders? In any case neither scenario applies to my 2 boys. -mhd >>>>Not sure about chicken as I'm not in your area, but I've had great >>>>success [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Breeder cats? Do you mean cats for breeding or cats from breeders? In > any case neither scenario applies to my 2 boys. "Mee" said that she "breeds Siamese cats." She's a backyard breeder. > I was thinking of giving her this in addition to Dermcaps from Drs. Foster > and Smith. It's a vitamin supplement that's high in Omega oils, which are > supposed to heal the skin for cats with allergic conditions. If you're trying to treat allergic skin conditions, DermCaps are probably the worst thing to use. DermCaps are very high in omega-6 fatty acids-- omega-6s are *pro*inflammatory-- which is probably why prednisolone seemed to stop working. You might want to try 3V Caps HP liquid - its made by the same company (DVM Pharmaceuticals). http://dvmpharmaceuticals.com/3VHPdetailsheet.pdf 3V Caps are very high in omega-3 fatty acids-- which are anti-inflammatory. Omega-3s and omega-6s compete for the same enzymes that omega-6s need to generate an allergic reaction. So, increasing tissue concentrations of omega-3s reduces the inflammatory responses. Phil >> I was thinking of giving her this in addition to Dermcaps from Drs. >> Foster and Smith. It's a vitamin supplement that's high in Omega [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Phil Thanks for the info. I haven't given her Dermcaps or any vitamin supplements yet. The Prednisolone stopped working on its own. Phil - Can you mix this liquid with her food as I find it hard to administer the meds orally? What's your opinion of a cooked chicken diet? I've heard that some holistic vets recomment raw chicken, but I've never heard of them adding taurine to the preparation. More importantly, have you seen any cat that's been cured of this granuloma (or allergic problem which causes them to excessively lick the hind legs which causes wounds)? Does anyone know of good cat sites that describe alternate diets? I'm going to do some searching. Perhaps Catster or some other site has a link. More importantly, have you seen any cat that's been cured of this > granuloma (or allergic problem which causes them to excessively lick the > hind legs which causes wounds)? > Does anyone know of good cat sites that describe alternate diets? I'm > going to do some searching. Perhaps Catster or some other site has a > link. This is a good site that might have information you're looking for: www.catinfo.org I feed my cats a raw homemade diet and I use a whole body fish oil made by Carlson's, which is very high quality. You can find it in most health food type markets. I do prick the capsule and put it over my cats' food and they have no problems with it. As to a cooked chicken diet, I would just make sure you're following a well-researched recipe and make sure to add in the necessary supplements. If it were my cat, I would try a well balanced raw diet with no grains. > >> I was thinking of giving her this in addition to Dermcaps from Drs. > >> Foster and Smith. It's a vitamin supplement that's high in Omega [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Phil - Can you mix this liquid with her food as I find it hard to > administer the meds orally? 3V Caps HP liquid has a very fishy taste- many cats will lick it up straight. I squirt it on a ceramic tea bag holder- my cats laps it right up. If you mix it in the food, use a small amount of food so she'll get the whole dose. Liquids are easy to give to cats. If you use 3V Caps HP, she'll only need .75 to1 ml. The tip of a 1 ml oral syringe fits in the gap between her canines and carnassials without having to open her mouth. What's your opinion of a cooked chicken > diet? I've heard that some holistic vets recomment raw chicken, but I've > never heard of them adding taurine to the preparation. I don't recommend homemade diets for cats unless you know what you're doing. > More importantly, have you seen any cat that's been cured of this > granuloma (or allergic problem which causes them to excessively lick the > hind legs which causes wounds)? If it looks something like this- http://maxshouse.com/Dermatology-Illus/allergic_dermatitis.jpg Yes-- If it looks something like this- http://maxshouse.com/Dermatology-Illus/Eosinophilic_plaque_on_ventral_abdomen.jpg No- only managed with steroids and/or immunosupressive drugs. > Does anyone know of good cat sites that describe alternate diets? I'm > going to do some searching. Perhaps Catster or some other site has a > link. Try Hill's Prescription z/d Ultra Allergen Free Feline. Good luck, Phil >> More importantly, have you seen any cat that's been cured of this >> granuloma (or allergic problem which causes them to excessively lick [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Phil Thanks for your advice. I think it looks more like the first picture (although it's very small). She has scabs on her hind legs or just to the left of her right hind leg that develop the day after she licks it raw. I don't see anything on her stomach. Have you had luck with cats actually liking the Hills z/d canned food, especially if they're used to Fancy Feast, which seems like a drug that cats get addicted to!? I would love to buy a case of the stuff, as that seems like the only way to get it by prescription from pet food stores, but if she doesn't eat can one, it's just a waste of money. > >> More importantly, have you seen any cat that's been cured of this > >> granuloma (or allergic problem which causes them to excessively lick [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > seems like the only way to get it by prescription from pet food stores, but > if she doesn't eat can one, it's just a waste of money. Hill's has a 100% money back guarantee- if you cat doesn't like any of their foods you can return it. Phil > You might want to try 3V Caps HP liquid - its made by the same company > (DVM Pharmaceuticals). > > http://dvmpharmaceuticals.com/3VHPdetailsheet.pdf I see it here. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=3447&N=2002+ 113617 It says that the capsule can be punctured and spread over the cat's food. The question is whether they'll still eat it! > > You might want to try 3V Caps HP liquid - its made by the same company > > (DVM Pharmaceuticals). [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > It says that the capsule can be punctured and spread over the cat's food. > The question is whether they'll still eat it! That's the old formula- it requires a large dose. Look for 3V Caps *HP* liquid. Its really good stuff-- not only for the skin but for the kidneys as well. Phil > As some of you know, my long haired cat has some sort of allergy that > causes her to lick parts of her hind legs and feet which causes sores. > She's currently on Triamcinolone (1 mg/day). Prednisolone seemed to stop > working as she probably built up a tolerance to it. > Anyway, I'm trying to wean her off of Fancy Feast. Removing wheat glutens > and corn from her diet by using Hills Prescription Diet d/d didn't work. Whatever else you try, don't reintroduce gluten. If her skin condition is anything like gluten-induced dermatitis in humans (dermatitis herpetiformis) it could take a long time to clear up. In humans it typically takes a year. In humans, dermatitis herpetiformis is sometimes treated with dapsone (developed as an anti-leprosy drug). No idea if that's relevant to cats. ============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ============== Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760 <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975 stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557 on Wed, 15 Nov 2006 11:43:13 GMT, Jack Campin - bogus address <bogus@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote: > Whatever else you try, don't reintroduce gluten. If her skin condition > is anything like gluten-induced dermatitis in humans (dermatitis [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > In humans, dermatitis herpetiformis is sometimes treated with dapsone > (developed as an anti-leprosy drug). No idea if that's relevant to cats. Makes sense. Leprosy is a granulomatous process. SignatureLynne "Every once in a while, the tables are turned and we get to share our lives with an animal who takes care of their human." - Tara, rpdb |
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