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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / October 2006Purrs for John & his Mother
As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in NY to where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. Actually, it's a nursing home with a section that has small apartments, but it's still a nursing home. Gretchen is 90 years old. On Thursday she had a stroke. When he went to see her he found her on the floor of her apartment. He doesn't know how long she'd been there (the staff is supposed to check on her every few hours due to her age and health issues). She apparently had tried to crawl to get help before collapsing completely. He found her on the floor between the wall and the dining room table. She's in very bad shape. He said she seems to be aware when he's there, but she can't move at all, can't speak, can't eat. They inserted a feeding tube and her breathing is assisted with an oxygen mask. Long story short, she's not going to come out of this. The doctor's hold out no hope of that. John is now in the very, very awful position of (A) hoping she will pass away quickly and peacefully or (B) having them remove the feeding tube and letting her die. Option B is of course, horrendous to contemplate. But if she doesn't pass away, she could live for who knows how long in a nursing home bed, unable to move, eat, or communicate in any way. I've often wondered why, when the time comes for our furbabies we are able to assist them on their way to the Bridge, but when it comes to a situation like this the only option is to remove the feeding tube and let the person die of starvation. It's just too cruel. Purrs for John and his mother and for the best outcome for both of them, please. Jill > I've often wondered why, when the time comes for our furbabies we are able > to assist them on their way to the Bridge, but when it comes to a situation > like this the only option is to remove the feeding tube and let the person > die of starvation. It's just too cruel. I will certainly purr for Gretchen's crossing and for John at this difficult time. Dylan did a study on this sort of thing and often times leaving in the feeding tube only prolongs the death process (and isn't doing the person much favours). Fortunately medicine is proceeding towards allowing morphine and other painkillers to keep the person comfortable, and now being "on drugs" isn't so bad as being "in pain." I think about my great aunt and grandmother, who were both critically ill but conscious and thinking clearly, and made the choice to stop eating. It was particularly brutal in the case of my great aunt who, feeling guilty for the waste of food, asked the staff to stop bringing her food. They said that legally, they had to give her food or they would be charged with neglect, but also legally, they would not force her to eat if she chose not to as she was in her right mind to make her own decisions. I believe it took almost two months for her to die. --Fil >I think about my great aunt and grandmother, who were both critically >ill but conscious and thinking clearly, and made the choice to stop [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >her to eat if she chose not to as she was in her right mind to make her >own decisions. I believe it took almost two months for her to die. That must have been such a terribly desperate thing to have to do. > As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in NY to > where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. Actually, it's a [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Purrs for John and his mother and for the best outcome for both of them, > please. There is nothing cruel about removing the feeding tube from someone who is not aware of what is going on around them. It depends on the level of awareness. Jo >> As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in >> NY to where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Jo He's pretty sure she knows he's there. But he told me tonight he kept searching for something in her eyes (she's not in a coma, that would be different, I guess) and didn't really know. He just felt she knew he was there but there's no real sense of communication, if that makes any sense. He's been taking care of her for a long time, even before he moved her to AR. He found out late last year she couldn't really get along anymore in his childhood home; she refused assistance like Meals on Wheels, a daytime nursing assistant, you know the drill. So he moved her to be closer to him. It's just so sad. Jill >>> As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in >>> NY to where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > Jill It is. This is going to be so very hard for him. I hope and pray it isn't hard for her as well. I still feel bad that my sister was the one to go through this stage with my mother before her death. That I couldn't be there to spare her some of that pain. Purrs on the way for both of them. And for you too. I know it hurts to want to save those you care about from things and not be able to. Jo > As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in NY to > where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. Actually, it's a [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Jill So sad! Purrs for John and his mother are on the way.  SignatureHugs, CatNipped See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ >As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in NY to >where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. Actually, it's a [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >Jill Hi Jill, my heart goes out to John - it is a very hard decision he has to make. A few years ago, when my mom went into a nursing home, they asked her what she wanted if/when this happened. She told them No tubes, no resusitation, pain medication only. The social worker asked her if she was sure she wanted this. Mom said to her, "Why die twice? If I am so bad at that time, let me go." 5 1/2 years later, I did what she asked. No tubes, no resuscitation. It was heartbreaking, but that is what she wanted. In NY, they have the person or their health care proxy fill out a form called an MOLST, which stands for Medical Orders for Life Sustaining Treatment. (More info on this site: http://www.compassionandsupport.org/molst/index.htm ) It covers just this situation, and when my mom went to the hospital for treatment they sent it with her so the hospital would know what to do in case they could not get in touch with anyone. Please tell John that prayers are going out for him and Gretchen, and we are sending purrayers to you. Take care, Patti >> Gretchen is 90 years old. On Thursday she had a stroke. When he >> went to see her he found her on the floor of her apartment. He [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > asked. No tubes, no resuscitation. It was heartbreaking, but that is > what she wanted. She granted John power of attorney over all her affairs when the moved her closer. He's an only child. I'm not sure at all if this included any information about not rendering life support (DNR) but at any rate they have her on a feeding tube, oxygen, etc. It's a little too late to have her fill out forms. She can't move or speak. > Please tell John that prayers are going out for him and Gretchen, and > we are sending purrayers to you. > > Take care, > Patti Thank you, Patti. John is obviously in a torn situation. He told me he was going to do as the doctors suggested and give her a couple of days before he made a decision. Despite all he's done for her, she was never exactly a loving "mom". But John is a very sensitive person, even though he's had to be very strong all his life. He does remember she gave him paper, paints, charcoal pencils, books to draw in. And that's what he does, he's a professional artist :) http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/332698141UtcsuJ I'm afraid I haven't uploaded any images of his work from 2006. I'll have to work on that but most of the shots I got weren't great. Anyway, Gretchen did encourage his artistic side but it was not a happy home. And now, it's even more unhappy. She can't sign any papers. She can't move. She can't speak. Jill How awful and heart breaking. Purrs and prayers for John and his mother. I wonder, if it does come down to option B, if they would sedate his mother first? I hope so. Dewi. > As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in NY to > where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. Actually, it's a [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Jill > Purrs for John and his mother and for the best outcome for both of them, > please. What a tough situation! Many purrs for John and his mother. SignatureMarina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/ Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki > As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in NY to > where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. Actually, it's a [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Jill I'm so sorry, Jill. I have often thought about the same thing. (pet euthanasia vs. human suffering) My heart just goes out to John. I have been where is now, and it is *very* difficult on the family members. My mother lived for two years the way John's mom is now, and she was only 42 years old. I know things are different now (this was even pre-Karen Ann Quinlan)...but the option of removal of the feeding tube was not even mentioned, ever. We wouldn't have done it anyway. My mother was not in any pain, even though she would have hated the situation worse than we did had she been aware. I don't think she was. Anyway, when the patient is suffering, to me, it's a whole different situation. Sherry Sherry > As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in > NY to where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Jill Oh, honey, I didn't know all this was going on. Purrs for John and his mother, and please keep me posted. kili -- http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/kilikini >> John is now in the very, very awful position of (A) hoping she will >> pass away quickly and peacefully or (B) having them remove the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > kili You have enough to worry about without my adding to your troubles, sweetie. And there's really nothing anyone can do but just hope she dies peacefully so he doesn't have to make this decision. He told me last night he's going to give it a couple of days (I think he needs to) to see what happens. Jill > Purrs for John and his mother and for the best outcome for both of them, > please. Purring up a storm. What a horrible position to be in. I confess that nasty as it sounds I am "glad" (for want of a better word) both my parents died in ways that didn't leave me and my brothers with a hard decision like this. Lesley Slave of the Fabulous Furballs <snip> > Purrs for John and his mother and for the best outcome for both of > them, please. > > Jill Purrs just don't seem enough. :-( Purrs anyway. SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart. http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk >Purrs for John and his mother and for the best outcome for both of them, >please. Absolutely. On their way. Our thoughts are with all of you during this difficult time. My mother did the opposite, in a way. She was in a nursing home and at one point refused to eat. She had a DNR but I was asked if they could insert a feeding tube. Advice from family and her doctor was against it but I couldn't bring myself to say "no" so it was done. Within a week after the insertion, she died anyway but I'm still glad I tried. Jeanne > Purrs for John and his mother and for the best outcome for both of them, > please. > > Jill Purrs on their way. >As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in NY to >where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. Actually, it's a [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >Jill Mega purrs are on the way to John and his mother. I know how hard it is to make the kind of decision that he's going to have to make. I've had to make it twice. Once in 1989 for my father and again in 1996 for my mother. He needs to ask himself what she would want. I have a living will that states that if I ever get to the point that I cannot make decisions for myself there are not to be any extreme measurers to keep me alive. Keep me as comfortable as possible and let me go. SignatureHugs and Purrs, Nan and the Furkids >> Gretchen is 90 years old. On Thursday she had a stroke. >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > measurers to keep me alive. Keep me as comfortable as possible and > let me go. He thinks that's what she would want but he's still unsure. The doctors are telling him she won't ever come out of this state. He really doesn't know what she'd want. His mother didn't like him. To be frank, she's a bitter old woman and the last words she said to him that ring in his mind (before she had the stroke) were about how ugly he is. I think all he ever wanted was for her to say, just once, "I love you" but she never did. Forgive my bluntness but may she burn in Hell for that. Jill . To be > frank, she's a bitter old woman and the last words she said to him that ring > in his mind (before she had the stroke) were about how ugly he is. I think > all he ever wanted was for her to say, just once, "I love you" but she never > did. Sounds a lot like my mother...when she was admitted for the last time just after I left the ward my brother called me to ask how she was and I said "She didn't make nasty comments on my hair. She didn't say a bad word about me or Dave. When I left she said "Love you"..I am worried about her!" (Incidentally I later found out the "love you" thing was an invention of my neice who reckoned no-one said it enough so everyone was parotting it to keep Adele happy) You have to remember this is the woman who said to me when I was about 10 "The best things in life to be are pretty and intelligent. If you can only be one then pretty is better than intelligent. If you're neither then perhaps you can cultivate a "nice" personality....in your case cultivate the "nice" personality" Lesley Slave of the Fabulous Furballs > . To be >> frank, she's a bitter old woman and the last words she said to him that ring [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Slave of the Fabulous Furballs Not all mothers want or like their children. It is apparent that she was not too intelligent, or she would have put intelligence first. With intelligence, the other attributes can be acquired. Best wishes . MLB > Not all mothers want or like their children. I know she resented me because she hated being pregnant and if I had been the son and heir she wouldn't have had to go through it again It is apparent that she was > not too intelligent, She was quite smart but I always got the impression she was a product of her time ie she was born to a working class family at a time when her best hope would have been to go into service , marriage and family were the only options open to her to get out of that! She never really matched my dad who came from the same background but had more options. He taught himself to play piano to a great standard and got into interesting things.Her function seemed to be to rear us kids....not too well as it turned out (All 3 of us have been treated for depression to her shame!) I always thought she could have achieved much more than she did I don't feel comfortable saying bad things about her- she isn't here to defend herself- she did the best job she could Lesley Slave of the Fabulous Furballs Purrs and prayers for John and his mother. Hope everything comes out for the best. Lily & her mama SignatureIrulan from the stars we come to the stars we return from now until the end of time > As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in NY to > where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. Actually, it's a [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Jill Purrs on the way for John and his mom. Ann Signatureread Sam's blog at http://kittens-3.blogspot.com/ see pictures of Sam at http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ann791/my_photos > As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in NY to > where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. Actually, it's a [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Jill > As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in NY to > where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. Actually, it's a [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Jill Purrs and prayers on the way for both. SignatureSam, closely supervised by Mistletoe > As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in > NY to where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > mask. Long story short, she's not going to come out of this. The > doctor's hold out no hope of that. This happened to my uncle four years ago, sounds exactly the same. He recovered well, except that his speech is still affected. It might be the same for Gretchen. I hope John won't need to make that ultimate decision. Removing a feeding tube is something I am not comfortable with. I regard it as murder of a vulnerable person. Tweed >> Gretchen is 90 years old. On Thursday she had a stroke. When he >> went to see her he found her on the floor of her apartment. He [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Tweed Was your uncle 90 years old? I'm not sure what there is for her to "come back" to. All her family except for John are dead. John is certainly not happy with option B but option C (should it come to that) is just let her lie in a bed for x-years not being able to do anything at all. I sure wouldn't want that, myself. Jill >>> Gretchen is 90 years old. On Thursday she had a stroke. When he >>> went to see her he found her on the floor of her apartment. He [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Was your uncle 90 years old? No, he was 78. I'm not sure what there is for her to > "come back" to. All her family except for John are dead. John is > certainly not happy with option B but option C (should it come to > that) is just let her lie in a bed for x-years not being able to do > anything at all. I sure wouldn't want that, myself. Unfortunately we don't know what her wishes are. I will never be in favour of starving anyone to death because they are ill, comatose, and cannot speak for themselves. It's diabolical and cruel. IMO. Tweed > > As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in > > NY to where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Tweed Removal of a feeding tube, or removal from a respirator or whatever, isn't something *anyone* is comfortable with. God forbid any of us should be comfortable about making such a decision. Even without knowing John at all, I know he is probably in torment right now. If he is the only family, what he feels is the right thing to do is the only thing that counts. It would be so much easier on him if his mom had recorded her wishes before she got ill. Jill, I imagine the doctors have a good idea of her brain activity from tests. Do they hold any hope at all? Sherry >>> As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in >>> NY to where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Sherry No, they say she will not recover. They say her current state is the best they can hope for. We didn't talk about brain activity; he said he thinks she knows when he's there with her but he really doesn't know. He spoke of looking into her eyes, trying to get some hint, some sign of what she wants but saw nothing. So I don't even know if she really sees him. He's an only child. His father committed suicide back in 1981. John is the only family except for a few distant cousins whom he doesn't know and she probably wouldn't remember. It's a horrible decision for him to have to make and certainly not one he will make lightly. Jill >> As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in >> NY to where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Tweed I'll have to disagree with you on that. I consider it relief from prolonged suffering. MLB >>> Gretchen is 90 years old. On Thursday she had a stroke. When he >>> went to see her he found her on the floor of her apartment. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I'll have to disagree with you on that. I consider it relief from > prolonged suffering. MLB It's still a horrendous decision to have to make and I hope he doesn't have to. I suppose they should have discussed this when he moved her from NY. He's her only living relative aside from a couple of his cousins whom he's never met. Jill >I've often wondered why, when the time comes for our furbabies we are able >to assist them on their way to the Bridge, but when it comes to a situation [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Purrs for John and his mother and for the best outcome for both of them, >please. Purrs for Gretchen and for John! >As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in NY to >where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. Actually, it's a [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >Jill Purrs on the way. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh Make Levees, Not War >As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in NY to >where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. Actually, it's a [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >Jill Purrs on the way for all involved. Randy http://picasaweb.google.com/crmartin1 http://kittenwar.com/kittens/74045/ Purrs for John and his mother, may there be a swift and peaceful resolution that doesn't involve John making any difficult decisions. SignatureShirley http://community.webshots.com/user/shirleycatuk > As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in > NY to [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > Jill Please give John all our best and lots of purrs; (this situation is what I worry about with my 86-yr-old mother on a daily basis.) I'm so sorry for all he's going through; you all certainly have moral support from here. Christine > As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in NY to > where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. Actually, it's a [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Jill > As some of you may know, John he moved his mother from her house in NY to > where he lives in AR, into an assisted living facility. Actually, it's a [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Jill I'm so very sorry to hear that. Lots of purrs for Gretchen and John, Polonca and Soncek
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