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curious:indoor vs outdoor

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avalanche* - 16 Oct 2006 06:14 GMT
Anyone know (or a  source for knowing)

-how many USA cat owners
-% of cats indoor vs outdoor

Brad
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 16 Oct 2006 07:00 GMT
> Anyone know (or a  source for knowing)
>
> -how many USA cat owners
> -% of cats indoor vs outdoor
>
> Brad

Please, Brad, Let's not start THAT controversy again!  Many
of us (on both sides of the issue) feel quite strongly about
it, so in the interest of harmony here, it's best to avoid
the subject.
krazy - 16 Oct 2006 13:41 GMT
>> Anyone know (or a  source for knowing)
>>
>> -how many USA cat owners
>> -% of cats indoor vs outdoor
>>
>> Brad

>Please, Brad, Let's not start THAT controversy again!  Many
>of us (on both sides of the issue) feel quite strongly about
>it, so in the interest of harmony here, it's best to avoid
>the subject.

TOO LATE !!!

The "cays already out" now.

How about starting a declawing debate also ?!?!

May as well go whole hog !!

Outdoors only and declawed cats are the way to go !!  That should get
people stared !!

  :-(
avalanche* - 17 Oct 2006 00:21 GMT
>> Anyone know (or a  source for knowing)
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>it, so in the interest of harmony here, it's best to avoid
>the subject.

Sorry. Didn't know I would start anything. I was just curious, not
taking sides:)

Brad
Matthew - 17 Oct 2006 00:29 GMT
That subject and the declawing issue  can start wars and has many times here
in the group.  It brings out the nuts to say

>>> Anyone know (or a  source for knowing)
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Brad
tension_on_the_wire - 16 Oct 2006 08:34 GMT
> Anyone know (or a  source for knowing)
>
> -how many USA cat owners
> -% of cats indoor vs outdoor
>
> Brad

Maybe one of the SPCA - type sites
would have that data?

--tension
gracecat - 16 Oct 2006 15:30 GMT
>> Anyone know (or a  source for knowing)
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> --tension

I doubt it.  I imagine it would be a headache.

Now my cats love the front porch. Luna spends most of her time there.
Jinglebell comes and goes with Abi. If they were in any danger that I
perceived, it would be different. I'd have and enclosure and they'd be
inside-only. They're fairly consistent and "safe". IE: They represent a
constant. Another example would be Mark Edwards and how he "adopts" outside
cats. He keeps a good eye on his charges and gives them proper care.

Dad has barn cats. Technically he "owns" the cats as he feeds them and
whatnot. But they're not pets and (grumble growl) he doesn't spend a whole
lot of vet care for them. They're working cats. His outdoor ownership
represents something completely opposite of what my  indoor-outdoor
ownership.  To be fairly blunt, he has no idea how many he has running
around, sometimes it's 2 and for several months after a litter it might be
three or four or five.

(And yes, I realize he should neuter them. I don't mind the barncat idea but
the multiple litters upset me)

The point is that my indoor-outdoor kitty statistics could be picked up from
my vet's office during a national survey, as could Marks. People like my
father who has cats running all over the place outside without rhyme or
reason would be impossible to make those numbers accurate however. The
variables are too inconsistent.

I think that made sense???

:)
sriddles@aol.com - 16 Oct 2006 15:44 GMT
> >> Anyone know (or a  source for knowing)
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> :)

It makes perfect sense. (do we have the same father????) LOL. Mine is
just like yours. I hated it. Even though (by his standards) he took
good care of the cats (i.e. fed them)..they would always have litters.
Overpopulation was never an issue because Mother Nature usually did the
culling. Which was even sadder.

I don't think there's any way to get accurate statistics either, so any
statistic you find out there is just gonna be moot. I've seen
"statistics" on the HSUS website that I suspect are not exactly
scientific, and published strictly to support their agenda. For
instance, I read once there that outdoor cats have a lifespan of 2
years. Whoa. There's no way *anyone* that can be anything other than
someone's guess. Like, what are they? Outdoor owned? Outdoor rural
cats? Outdoor city cats? Stray cats? Are indoor-outdoor cats included
in that?

Don't get me wrong, though; I support their agenda too. But I think you
have to use common sense when you read "statistics" also.

Like they say, 54% per cent of all statistics are made up on the spot.
(heh)

Sherry
gracecat - 16 Oct 2006 17:58 GMT
> Like they say, 54% per cent of all statistics are made up on the spot.
> (heh)
>
> Sherry

Hehe... Dad's "original" barn kitty is still going strong. She's five or six
years old now.

I don't think a barn full of horses can do without a cat. There is something
very special about a barn kitty. But I wish they'd be taken care of and
appreciated.

Grace
Will in New Haven - 16 Oct 2006 18:33 GMT
> > Like they say, 54% per cent of all statistics are made up on the spot.
> > (heh)
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Grace

My friend Bruce had barn cats as he grew up. When his father passed and
Bruce was in charge it stayed the same for quite awhile. They had
always fed the barn cats and his dad had the vet in for OBVIOUS
problems, which amounted to one or two times in a decade. In the worst
weather, the ones that wanted to could shelter in the house. On an
ordinary evening, some of them would visit the family in the livng room
and there was some petting and lap-sitting going on. They had it pretty
good, for barn cats.They even had a big previously-feral d*g, Konrad,
who did not tolerate other dogs around "his' cats and could make it
stick.

Then several things happened in short order. First Konrad passed away
after a twelve-year career of bullying (gently) and protecting the
cats. Almost immediately, the barn cat populaltion went into decline
and coyote tracks became very common around the house. The population
decline reversed itself, probably because the cats learned to use trees
and the barn itself to avoid coyotes but then Bruce started a spay and
neuter program which stabalized the population.

In the next few years, Bruce started allowing the youngest generation
the run of the house. Actually, all the cats had the run of the house
but three older cats would not come in except for the usual visit.
After the older cats passed away, he was left with three young house
cats who had no INTENTION of going to the barn. So the barn would be
full of mice except that nothing that would attract mice is kept there
anymore. That was years ago and sometimes Bruce gets nostalgic for the
old days but there have never been any complaints from any cat.

Will in New Haven
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 16 Oct 2006 20:17 GMT
Great story!!

Joyce

> My friend Bruce had barn cats as he grew up. When his father passed and
> Bruce was in charge it stayed the same for quite awhile. They had
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> who did not tolerate other dogs around "his' cats and could make it
> stick.

> Then several things happened in short order. First Konrad passed away
> after a twelve-year career of bullying (gently) and protecting the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> and the barn itself to avoid coyotes but then Bruce started a spay and
> neuter program which stabalized the population.

> In the next few years, Bruce started allowing the youngest generation
> the run of the house. Actually, all the cats had the run of the house
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> anymore. That was years ago and sometimes Bruce gets nostalgic for the
> old days but there have never been any complaints from any cat.

> Will in New Haven

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sriddles@aol.com - 16 Oct 2006 18:47 GMT
> > Like they say, 54% per cent of all statistics are made up on the spot.
> > (heh)
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Grace

Absolutely. Never underestimate the value of the "working cat."  And
being a barn cat is actually a pretty good gig. Warm shelter, food, and
a plentiful supply of mice is *so* much better than a lot of  cats
have. These old rancher/farmer guys just don't get it though. They are
always coming in the shelter wanting un-neutered cats for barn cats. We
let them have the ferals, but only after they're neutered. It's pretty
hard to convince them that spaying a cat won't affect its mousing
abilities.

Sherry
MaryL - 17 Oct 2006 08:54 GMT
>> > Like they say, 54% per cent of all statistics are made up on the spot.
>> > (heh)
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Sherry

My grandfather (who I just wrote about in this thread) kept his barn cats
very well fed.  He always said that well fed cats were just as good mousers
as cats that were not cared for because much of what they did was instinct,
and he considered it to be an act of cruelty to let any animal under his
care go hungry.

MaryL
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 16 Oct 2006 20:18 GMT
> I don't think a barn full of horses can do without a cat.

Is that because the feed for the horses attracts mice?

Joyce
gracecat - 17 Oct 2006 01:19 GMT
> > I don't think a barn full of horses can do without a cat.
>
> Is that because the feed for the horses attracts mice?
>
> Joyce

I'm not sure Joyce, probably so. But there's something sentimental and
special when you have a barn with it's own ecosystem. Cats take care of
mice, chickens eat flies and bugs, so on and so forth. All of the animals
pull together and make their own sort of society. It sounds like a cartoon,
animals talking to each other and stuff. But in reality, every barn is quite
like Charolette's Web and so on.

That's what  I meant by my statement. A working barn is a very special barn.
:)

Grace
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 17 Oct 2006 01:31 GMT
> > Is that because the feed for the horses attracts mice?

> I'm not sure Joyce, probably so. But there's something sentimental and
> special when you have a barn with it's own ecosystem. Cats take care of
> mice, chickens eat flies and bugs, so on and so forth. All of the animals
> pull together and make their own sort of society. It sounds like a cartoon,
> animals talking to each other and stuff. But in reality, every barn is quite
> like Charolette's Web and so on.

> That's what  I meant by my statement. A working barn is a very special barn.
> :)

That makes a lot of sense. A barn with the right kind of ecosystem could
be somewhat self-sustaining, where everyone's got a job and everyone's got
something to eat. I can certainly see why that is special.

Joyce
Katrina - 17 Oct 2006 02:42 GMT
>  > I don't think a barn full of horses can do without a cat.
>
> Is that because the feed for the horses attracts mice?
>
> Joyce

Most horses get a grain supplement/treat on a daily basis. Horses
aren't very tidy eaters, so grain gets spilled on the ground. Mice and
rats are attracted to the spilled grain, so yes, the feed for the
horses attracts mice and rats (and racoons and possums...)

Katrina
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History: special people in special places at special times
Anthropology: everyone else the rest of the time
                -KWorley, 1997

Adrian A - 16 Oct 2006 21:26 GMT
>> Like they say, 54% per cent of all statistics are made up on the
>> spot. (heh)
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Grace

My grandfather was owned by a cat that aged 18 refused to enter the house,
he lived outside until the age of 27.
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Adrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera)
Cats leave pawprints on your heart.
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk

sriddles@aol.com - 16 Oct 2006 22:07 GMT
> >> Like they say, 54% per cent of all statistics are made up on the
> >> spot. (heh)
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Cats leave pawprints on your heart.
> http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk

Perfect example. I've known lots of cats too who lived to a ripe old
age as outdoor cats, and even more as indoor/outdoor. There's just so
many factors to consider, it is impossible for them to accurately say
that "outdoor cats only have an average 2-year lifespan." If the cat is
vetted, fed well and lives in a relatively safe area, they can live
certainly a lot longer than 2 years.

Sherry
Helen Miles - 16 Oct 2006 22:13 GMT
There's just so
> many factors to consider, it is impossible for them to accurately say
> that "outdoor cats only have an average 2-year lifespan." If the cat is
> vetted, fed well and lives in a relatively safe area, they can live
> certainly a lot longer than 2 years.////

My uncle has 38 barn cats who were the result of a feral relocation
program by the local rescue. All are spayed and neutered and all are fed
daily. The youngest is 10 and the oldest is 14.

Oddly enough, vermin are not a problem on his farm. ;o)

Helen M
sriddles@aol.com - 17 Oct 2006 00:23 GMT
> There's just so
> > many factors to consider, it is impossible for them to accurately say
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Helen M

Forgive me for veering off the original topic, but your post (bless
your uncle!) reminded me of a funny (and sad!)  story that just
happened Friday. I was at the shelter, and the kennelmaster was
weed-eating the tall grass from around the cat enclosure. He flushed
out a mouse, who ran straight INTO THE CAT ROOM. You never saw 30 more
excited cats in your whole life.

Sherry
Matthew - 17 Oct 2006 00:33 GMT
>> There's just so
>> > many factors to consider, it is impossible for them to accurately say
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Sherry

I hate to say when we were in the barn when we were young.  The horse feed
was kept up top  when we found a mouse sometime a rat.  We whistle the barn
cats would come running we move the feed bags.  The rodents would go running
away from us right into the lions den.  Parents always wonder why the cats
would go nuts when we were up there.
tension_on_the_wire - 17 Oct 2006 05:46 GMT
> I hate to say when we were in the barn when we were young.

Oh, you were raised in a barn?  (asked very politely) 8^P

--tension
Matthew - 17 Oct 2006 12:35 GMT
>> I hate to say when we were in the barn when we were young.
>
> Oh, you were raised in a barn?  (asked very politely) 8^P
>
> --tension

Most of us were    were do you think country folk come from

< raspberry>
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 17 Oct 2006 16:56 GMT
>>>I hate to say when we were in the barn when we were young.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Most of us were    were do you think country folk come from

Well, you notice he DID say "raised", not "born"! ;-)
Matthew - 17 Oct 2006 20:24 GMT
>>>>I hate to say when we were in the barn when we were young.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Well, you notice he DID say "raised", not "born"! ;-)

I am not that country ;-)
Will in New Haven - 17 Oct 2006 02:33 GMT
> > There's just so
> > > many factors to consider, it is impossible for them to accurately say
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Sherry

Thought balloon over scurrying mousie: 'have I erred?!?'

Reminds me of the time a friend in another aprartment would have
Feather come spend the night because she saw a mouse and her Lilly was
scared of it. Feather was worshipped as the God of Death by the mice on
Lower Chapel Street.

Will in New Haven

--

"Whiskey - I like it, I always did, and that is the reason I never
use it." - Robert E. Lee

Will in New Haven
Adrian A - 17 Oct 2006 11:14 GMT
>>> There's just so
>>>> many factors to consider, it is impossible for them to accurately
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Will in New Haven

That reminds me of a notice I once saw in an office. To err is human, to
really foul things up you need a computer.
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Adrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera)
Cats leave pawprints on your heart.
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk

Randy - 18 Oct 2006 14:13 GMT
>> > There's just so
>> > > many factors to consider, it is impossible for them to accurately say
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>Thought balloon over scurrying mousie: 'have I erred?!?'

I would be more inclined to think it said "Oh S**t".

Randy
http://picasaweb.google.com/crmartin1

http://kittenwar.com/kittens/74045/
Will in New Haven - 18 Oct 2006 19:23 GMT
> >> > There's just so
> >> > > many factors to consider, it is impossible for them to accurately say
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> I would be more inclined to think it said "Oh S**t".

I might have thought so also. However, Feather said that mice are quite
dignified and that their final utterances were usually devoid of
vulgarity, sentimentality or begging. He quite admired them and hoped
their was no hard feelings. He never spared them, of course. as he was
the Mousie God of Death.

Will in New Haven

--

> Randy
> http://picasaweb.google.com/crmartin1
>
> http://kittenwar.com/kittens/74045/
Nik Simpson - 17 Oct 2006 01:50 GMT
> Perfect example. I've known lots of cats too who lived to a ripe old
> age as outdoor cats, and even more as indoor/outdoor. There's just so
> many factors to consider, it is impossible for them to accurately say
> that "outdoor cats only have an average 2-year lifespan." If the cat is
> vetted, fed well and lives in a relatively safe area, they can live
> certainly a lot longer than 2 years.

I'd have to agree, my three come and go as they please and have a
combined age of 35. They've taken it upon themselves to control the
local rabbit population, which I can live with, it's the catch and
release that gets to me, those rabbits can be tough to get out from
behind the furniture :-)

Signature

Nik Simpson

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 17 Oct 2006 03:02 GMT
>> Perfect example. I've known lots of cats too who lived to a ripe old
>> age as outdoor cats, and even more as indoor/outdoor. There's just so
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> release that gets to me, those rabbits can be tough to get out from
> behind the furniture :-)

Try getting a California fruit rat out of the mechanism of a
sofa bed!  (I had one cat who'd invariably "bring 'em back
alive" and promptly lose interest.)
MaryL - 17 Oct 2006 08:51 GMT
>> Like they say, 54% per cent of all statistics are made up on the spot.
>> (heh)
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Grace

My grandfather was a farmer.  (I'm going *way* back in time for this,
folks.)  Even though some of his animals were intended to eventually be on a
dinner table, he genuinely loved animals and would not tolerate cruelty in
any form.  His barn cats would line up behind him with their mouths wide
open when he was milking the cows, and he would "squirt" each of them in the
mouth with fresh milk.  Yuk!! But the cats loved it.  He kept draft horses
even after he had tractors, and when he was ready for retirement and moved
to Florida he *gave* his horses away.  His son-in-law asked why he didn't
sell them, and his response was that they had given him good service all
their lives and now he only wanted to make sure that they would go someplace
where they would be well-cared-for.  He was even pretty early in recognizing
the value of birds that his neighbors considered "pests."  He always planted
extra rows of corn "for the birds" and said they were worth their weight in
gold because of all the insects they caught, and he was the first person I
ever saw who placed a bat house on the side of his own house.  That is
common now but seemed to be rare then.

MaryL
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 17 Oct 2006 09:18 GMT
> My grandfather was a farmer.  (I'm going *way* back in time for this,
> folks.)  Even though some of his animals were intended to eventually be on a
> dinner table, he genuinely loved animals and would not tolerate cruelty in
> any form.  His barn cats would line up behind him with their mouths wide
> open when he was milking the cows, and he would "squirt" each of them in the
> mouth with fresh milk.  Yuk!! But the cats loved it.

I've seen pictures of this. (Not of your grandfathter of course, but
of other people squirting cow's milk at barn cats.) I guess it was pretty
popular among the cats!

He kept draft horses
> even after he had tractors, and when he was ready for retirement and moved
> to Florida he *gave* his horses away.  His son-in-law asked why he didn't
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> extra rows of corn "for the birds" and said they were worth their weight in
> gold because of all the insects they caught

He sounds like he was a wonderful man.

Joyce
MaryL - 17 Oct 2006 09:26 GMT
> > My grandfather was a farmer.  (I'm going *way* back in time for this,
> > folks.)  Even though some of his animals were intended to eventually be
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Joyce

Thank you.  He really was!

MaryL
gracecat - 17 Oct 2006 22:01 GMT
>>> Like they say, 54% per cent of all statistics are made up on the spot.
>>> (heh)
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> MaryL

Sounds like you had a great Grandfather!!! I loved the story. Those are the
farms that I call very special indeed. It's a happy healthy farm :)

Grace
tension_on_the_wire - 18 Oct 2006 06:20 GMT
> "MaryL" <stancole1@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message

^that's very funny!!!

> Sounds like you had a great Grandfather!!! I loved the story. Those are the
> farms that I call very special indeed. It's a happy healthy farm :)
>
> Grace

Your grandfather reminds me of a book I read as a kid called
"The Good Master" by Kate Seredy.  I finally read it again as
an adult and it was still just as good!

--tension
tension_on_the_wire - 18 Oct 2006 06:21 GMT
> > "MaryL" <stancole1@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
>
> ^that's very funny!!!

Oh, fooey, I was trying to point at the "take out the litter" pun!
8^P

--tension
MaryL - 18 Oct 2006 14:13 GMT
>> > "MaryL" <stancole1@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> --tension

I got your point anyway.  I wanted to "anonymize" my email slightly to
reduce spam, yet make it easy for people on newsgroups to figure it out.
And, of course, it had to be something about cats!

MaryL
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 18 Oct 2006 09:26 GMT
> Your grandfather reminds me of a book I read as a kid called
> "The Good Master" by Kate Seredy.  I finally read it again as
> an adult and it was still just as good!

I got curious, so I looked this one up on Amazon. And now I'm wondering
if it's a memoir, or a bit of autobiographical fiction. The main character
is a girl named Kate, and I think it's a bit unusual for a writer to give
a main character his or her own name. And "Seredy" sounds like it might
be Hungarian, not that I would know for sure, but it seems possible. So
I'm wondering if it's a book about her own experiences.

Joyce
tension_on_the_wire - 18 Oct 2006 22:03 GMT
>  > Your grandfather reminds me of a book I read as a kid called
>  > "The Good Master" by Kate Seredy.  I finally read it again as
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Joyce

Yes it is Hungarian, Joyce, and the tale is certainly an old
one, regarding a girl being placed from the city to a
prosperous plains farm in Hungary with her uncle
who is "the good master".  I have always wondered
if it pertained to her own childhood but since it is
written in excellent fiction style, there is no way
to be sure from reading the book alone, you would
have to look up the author herself, I think.  This
book was presented to us in, maybe, Grade 5,
I think, as part of our curriculum, and we were
supposed to read the chapters along with the
schedule of study, but I couldn't help myself,
and finished the book in about a week.  It made
a great impression on me at the time, and I have
since looked it up again to try get a copy for my
daughter, though she is not yet old enough to read
it, really.

--tension
MaryL - 18 Oct 2006 22:25 GMT
>>  > Your grandfather reminds me of a book I read as a kid called
>>  > "The Good Master" by Kate Seredy.  I finally read it again as
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> --tension

Well, this means that I might be just a "tad" too old for the book, but I
think I'll see if it is available in the library.  Sometimes those childhood
books are worth looking at again (or for the first time).

MaryL
tension_on_the_wire - 19 Oct 2006 03:45 GMT
> Well, this means that I might be just a "tad" too old for the book, but I
> think I'll see if it is available in the library.  Sometimes those childhood
> books are worth looking at again (or for the first time).

Yes, some of them are...the ones I consider classics...and this
is certainly one of them.  It contains a lot of fables and legends
of Hungarian folklore in it, but couched in the context of
characters in the book who tell the stories, and are also
interesting people in their own right.

--tension
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 19 Oct 2006 07:47 GMT
>>Well, this means that I might be just a "tad" too old for the book, but I
>>think I'll see if it is available in the library.  Sometimes those childhood
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> characters in the book who tell the stories, and are also
> interesting people in their own right.

All the best children's books can be readily enjoyed by
grownups, too.  If the authors don't "talk down" to the
children, there are levels that may pass the children by on
first reading, but speak to the parent reading them aloud.
I discovered both T. H. White's Arthur series and C. S.
Lewis's Narnia series when I was long past childhood, and
treasure them, still.  (I am also a fan of Harry Potter,
even though I am definitely of grandmotherly age.)

> --tension
Marina - 19 Oct 2006 05:16 GMT
> Well, this means that I might be just a "tad" too old for the book, but I
> think I'll see if it is available in the library.  Sometimes those childhood
> books are worth looking at again (or for the first time).

Oh, yes. I try to re-read Alice in Wonderland and Through the
Looking-Glass at least once a year. Also Winnie-the-Pooh every few
years. And the Moomin books. They keep life in perspective, so to say.

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Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
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tension_on_the_wire - 19 Oct 2006 05:48 GMT
> > Well, this means that I might be just a "tad" too old for the book, but I
> > think I'll see if it is available in the library.  Sometimes those childhood
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Looking-Glass at least once a year. Also Winnie-the-Pooh every few
> years. And the Moomin books. They keep life in perspective, so to say.

Kindred spirit. Narnia & Lord of the Rings on a regular basis here.
What are the Moomin books?

--tension
Marina - 19 Oct 2006 06:45 GMT
> Kindred spirit. Narnia & Lord of the Rings on a regular basis here.
> What are the Moomin books?

I didn't really expect you to know, though I know some people here have
read the Finnish Moomin books. They've been translated into English.
There are descriptions of the characters in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moomin

Signature

Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 19 Oct 2006 08:31 GMT
> > Kindred spirit. Narnia & Lord of the Rings on a regular basis here.
> > What are the Moomin books?

> I didn't really expect you to know, though I know some people here have
> read the Finnish Moomin books. They've been translated into English.
> There are descriptions of the characters in Wikipedia:

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moomin

Well, I just looked at this link, and these books look totally charming.
The drawings are adorable, and so are the characters' names. (How can you
not be intrigued by characters named "Sniff" or the "Hattifatteners"? :))

I'll have to check these out. Marina, you might have won over a few new
fans!

Joyce
Tish - 19 Oct 2006 07:16 GMT
>What are the Moomin books?
>
>--tension

In a short phrase? Well worth chasing up.
The books are by the late Tove Jansson.  Although originally written
in ?Finnish? (correct me if I'm wrong Marina), the series of books has
been translated into many languages, including English.  The books are
absolutely charming; slightly rebellious (to be expected, given what
I've read about Ms Jansson) and altogether delightful.  Once you've
read the books, your world will be inhabited by Little My, Sniff,
Hattifatteners, Moomins (of course), the Groke and all the rest of the
cast.
Here is a link to the books available through Amazon.com: (shrunk with
tinyurl.com to make it fit on a line) http://tinyurl.com/yg5xy9

Tish (a fan)
Marina - 19 Oct 2006 08:47 GMT
> In a short phrase? Well worth chasing up.
> The books are by the late Tove Jansson.  Although originally written
> in ?Finnish? (correct me if I'm wrong Marina),

Tove Jansson was a Swedish-speaker, like me, so the books were
originally written in Swedish. The attitude displayed in the books by
the Moomins is considered to be typical for us Finnish Swedes, not least
by ourselves. ;o)

the series of books has
> been translated into many languages, including English.  The books are
> absolutely charming; slightly rebellious (to be expected, given what
> I've read about Ms Jansson) and altogether delightful.  Once you've
> read the books, your world will be inhabited by Little My, Sniff,
> Hattifatteners, Moomins (of course), the Groke and all the rest of the
> cast.

It was funny to me to read the English names, since I've grown up with
the Swedish ones. Some were good translations (like the Muddler) and
others - strange. The Groke? She is called Mårran in Swedish, which I
think comes from the verb mårra, which means growl.

> Here is a link to the books available through Amazon.com: (shrunk with
> tinyurl.com to make it fit on a line) http://tinyurl.com/yg5xy9
>
> Tish (a fan)

I had a feeling that you'd said you had read about the Moomins, Tish.

Signature

Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Tish - 19 Oct 2006 09:03 GMT
>It was funny to me to read the English names, since I've grown up with
>the Swedish ones. Some were good translations (like the Muddler) and
>others - strange. The Groke? She is called Mårran in Swedish, which I
>think comes from the verb mårra, which means growl.

I think I prefer the Swedish name!  Marran (with a doojit over the
first a) is much more euphonic than The Groke and I can just imagine
"Marran" spoken with *just* the right amount of menace in the voice!

>> Here is a link to the books available through Amazon.com: (shrunk with
>> tinyurl.com to make it fit on a line) http://tinyurl.com/yg5xy9
>>
>> Tish (a fan)
>
>I had a feeling that you'd said you had read about the Moomins, Tish.

Oh yes, most definitely.  Our whole family are fans, to the extent
that my sister made a special visit to the Moomin theme park when she
visited Finland.  I think they must have been quite popular in
Australia because the books were easily available and I know of quite
a few "kids" my age who know and love the books.

Tish
MaryL - 18 Oct 2006 14:10 GMT
>> "MaryL" <stancole1@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> --tension

I'm not familiar with that book.  I'll have to check into it -- sounds like
I might like it.

Thanks,
MaryL
 
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