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Servicing the litterbox.

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Christina Websell - 05 Sep 2006 19:35 GMT
Blimey.  When I got KFC a box to use - having never had one before - I
naively thought that with one tiny 4lb cat using it, I might get away with
scooping a 16x11 inch box every 2-3 days.
Not so.
Every evening after work finds me on my hands and knees shovelling and
sieving clumps through my cat litter scoop and wrapping the results in
newspaper to go into the garbage.
I quickly abandoned the very expensive clumping litter of a fine grade.  We
got through a bag costing nearly 10 dollars in less than 10 days.  Plus it
stuck like glue to the bottom of the box and tracked everywhere.

I bought a 12kg bag of coarser clumping litter for the same price to try on
Monday.  Completely cleaned the box out and filled it right up Monday night
with absolute pristine litter.
Tonight found me on my knees again sieving out huge quantities of pee
clumps, almost half the litter was peed up. Plus a couple of the other,
which was definitely from Kitty, white from the bones of the collared dove.

I need some advice.  Is this normal?   Can a tiny cat pee up nearly the
whole box in less than 48 hours?
If so, how do you who have a lot of cats cope with litterbox duties?  It
must be your life's work :-)

Tweed
Monique Y. Mudama - 05 Sep 2006 20:02 GMT
> I bought a 12kg bag of coarser clumping litter for the same price to
> try on Monday.  Completely cleaned the box out and filled it right
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> lot of cats cope with litterbox duties?  It must be your life's work
> :-)

Sounds excessive to me.  Unless your definition of "peed up" is
different than mine, which may very well be.

I clean the litter box about once a week.  Granted, most folks here
would probably accuse me of cat abuse for this kind of neglect, but
Oscar's okay with it.

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monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Christina Websell - 05 Sep 2006 21:05 GMT
>> I bought a 12kg bag of coarser clumping litter for the same price to
>> try on Monday.  Completely cleaned the box out and filled it right
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Sounds excessive to me.  Unless your definition of "peed up" is
> different than mine, which may very well be.

My definition of "peed up"  is when most of the litter looks darker in
colour and when I investigate with the scoop a lot is clumped and stuck to
the bottom of the box and the clean litter is only on top.

> I clean the litter box about once a week.  Granted, most folks here
> would probably accuse me of cat abuse for this kind of neglect, but
> Oscar's okay with it.

It's entirely up to you how often you clean Oscar's litterbox.  None of my
business, oh, excuse the unintentional pun..
Maybe I might get more relaxed about a dirty litterbox at the side of my
toilet but I doubt it.  I get visitors, who sometimes ask to use my toilet.
No problem with a cat lover, but some are not.  Big problem with non-cat
lovers who notice something big deposited in the last five minutes.  Kitty
does not bury.

Tweed
Monique Y. Mudama - 05 Sep 2006 21:30 GMT
>> Sounds excessive to me.  Unless your definition of "peed up" is
>> different than mine, which may very well be.
>
> My definition of "peed up"  is when most of the litter looks darker
> in colour and when I investigate with the scoop a lot is clumped and
> stuck to the bottom of the box and the clean litter is only on top.

I would definitely consider "most" of the litter being darker
(obviously having been wet) in a day or two to be an awful lot of pee.
That's from my own cat, but also having cared for other cats while
their owners were out of town.

> It's entirely up to you how often you clean Oscar's litterbox.  None
> of my business, oh, excuse the unintentional pun..  Maybe I might
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> non-cat lovers who notice something big deposited in the last five
> minutes.  Kitty does not bury.

Yes, that is a problem, Oscar doesn't either, and for the first few
minutes the smell is intense.  Used to be, her litterbox was in the
basement and it wasn't a problem.  Now the basement door is shut (we
may eventually change that policy after extensive catproofing of the
crawlspace), Oscar's litterbox is in DH's bathroom* upstairs.  It does
encourage us to clean it more often, and the throne makes a handy
perch, much easier than cleaning up without a seat nearby.  We turn on
the bathroom fan when she's just gone, which helps somewhat.  When we
have guests over, there's a downstairs bathroom, and that's where
guests stay overnight, too, so really no one but us will ever see the
litter box.

It occurs to me we have a lot of bathrooms.

*) DH and I often are getting ready at the same time in the morning, so
he eventually moved all his toiletries into the guest bathroom
upstairs.  It doesn't even occur to him to use the master bath for the
most part; even if he gets up in the middle of the night, he uses the
hallway bath!  Kind of funny.

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Ted Davis - 06 Sep 2006 01:18 GMT
>It occurs to me we have a lot of bathrooms.

Well, I have a large bedroom, a living room, a small computer room, a
kitchen, a recently added mud room, and two baths (the one off the
bedroom has a shower, but no tub).  All this for one person.  I don't
think the hot water system could handle two showers at the same time
though.  The hall bathroom has a set of linen shelves, the lowest of
which is high enough to put a litter pan under, but since I built the
mud room, I have a pan there only when I have a cat confined to the
bathroom, as in preparation for a trip to the vet.

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Monique Y. Mudama - 06 Sep 2006 04:05 GMT
>>It occurs to me we have a lot of bathrooms.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I built the mud room, I have a pan there only when I have a cat
> confined to the bathroom, as in preparation for a trip to the vet.

But you have lots of cats to occupy all that space!

Our space allows us to be lazy about picking things up and deciding
among things we want to have, which I think in many ways may not be
entirely to the good.

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Ted Davis - 07 Sep 2006 02:34 GMT
>>>It occurs to me we have a lot of bathrooms.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>But you have lots of cats to occupy all that space!

All what space?  My home is 24 feet wide by 45 feet long - that's 72
square feet (6.7 square meters) per cat.  Fortunately there are
outbuildings they can get in and under, a huge yard, and much brush
and tree areas.

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Cheryl - 06 Sep 2006 02:41 GMT
> *) DH and I often are getting ready at the same time in the
> morning, so he eventually moved all his toiletries into the
> guest bathroom upstairs.  It doesn't even occur to him to use
> the master bath for the most part; even if he gets up in the
> middle of the night, he uses the hallway bath!  Kind of funny.

I bought my house from my brother and his wife, and they have 3
daughters. This house has only two bathrooms, so I have no idea how
they did it for 15 years!  

My brother's bathroom was the downstairs one. I am not at all
surprised that just 6 months after buying the house, my first
spring here, I noticed termite swarmers in "his" bathroom*. I can't
imagine that they just found their way in after I bought the house,
and I can't imagine how he never noticed little bugs with wings in
his tub. *boggle*

*He's not very observant.  LOL

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Cheryl

Monique Y. Mudama - 06 Sep 2006 04:05 GMT
> I bought my house from my brother and his wife, and they have 3
> daughters. This house has only two bathrooms, so I have no idea how
> they did it for 15 years!  

Yeah, no kidding!

> My brother's bathroom was the downstairs one. I am not at all
> surprised that just 6 months after buying the house, my first spring
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> *He's not very observant.  LOL

Eek.  Well, *maybe* they weren't there yet.  Does he wear glasses?
Before my eye surgery, I could easily have missed something like that
in the bathtub.

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monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

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Adrian A - 06 Sep 2006 10:27 GMT
>>> I bought a 12kg bag of coarser clumping litter for the same price to
>>> try on Monday.  Completely cleaned the box out and filled it right
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Tweed

So if they ask to use the toilet, say "only if you like cats". ;-)
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mlbriggs - 05 Sep 2006 20:18 GMT
> Blimey.  When I got KFC a box to use - having never had one before - I
> naively thought that with one tiny 4lb cat using it, I might get away with
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Tweed

TuTu is a big cat and see goes 2-3 times a day and generally once at night.
Has she been checked for diabetes?  MLBN
Karen - 05 Sep 2006 20:21 GMT
Well that is part of CRF as I know it. It's why, I believe, people often
give fluids.

> Blimey.  When I got KFC a box to use - having never had one before - I
> naively thought that with one tiny 4lb cat using it, I might get away with
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Tweed
Christina Websell - 05 Sep 2006 20:41 GMT
> Well that is part of CRF as I know it. It's why, I believe, people often
> give fluids.

The vet has said she's nowhere near needing fluids yet (Phew)  Spoke to TED
today.

Tweed

>> Blimey.  When I got KFC a box to use - having never had one before - I
>> naively thought that with one tiny 4lb cat using it, I might get away
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>>
>> Tweed
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 05 Sep 2006 21:13 GMT
>> I need some advice.  Is this normal?   Can a tiny cat pee up nearly the
>> whole box in less than 48 hours?
>> If so, how do you who have a lot of cats cope with litterbox duties?  It
>> must be your life's work :-)
>
> Well that is part of CRF as I know it.

That's what I was going to say. Isn't frequent and voluminous peeing
one of the symptoms of CRF? I guess that's to be expected.

Joyce
Debbie Wilson - 05 Sep 2006 20:23 GMT
> I need some advice.  Is this normal?   Can a tiny cat pee up nearly the
> whole box in less than 48 hours?
> If so, how do you who have a lot of cats cope with litterbox duties?  It
> must be your life's work :-)

I wouldn't be worried - at least she is using it. Each one of my cats
produces varying amounts of pee. Willow can pee for England, the two
boys much more modest amounts. Cocoa is usually OK except if she gets
cystitis (rarely) then it's tiny amounts and off to TED.

Willow could easily pee up a box in 48 hrs or less. If all my cats are
in, there would be 2 boxes changed twice daily, to give you an idea.
I hate the gravel-type litter. As you found, it turns into sticky clay
when wet and quickly ruins a plastic litter tray, and is nasty to clean
out. Pine pellets are OK but they track easily and will stain
light-coloured floors. Mine are all happy with 'Yesterday's News', a
recycled newspaper pellet litter, which doesn't track, doesn't smell and
easily tips out of the box without sticking when cleaned up. I keep a
small plastic dustbin (child's toy bin) next to the tray, with a bin
liner in, which the used litter gets tipped into, and the tray given a
quick wipe with kitchen roll and Trigene (cat-safe disinfectant) before
refilling with about 4-5 mugfulls of the litter. This makes it quick and
easy to change the tray and the lidded bin keeps the used litter from
smelling until it is emptied.

A 10 kg bag of Yesterday's News will last me about 2 weeks (4 cats, 2
trays) under these circumstances, and it costs about £11 at my local
shop.

May or may not be a useful comparison, anyway-

HTH

Deb.
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Karen - 05 Sep 2006 20:49 GMT
>Willow can pee for England

ROTFLMAO!!!!!
Debbie Wilson - 05 Sep 2006 20:51 GMT
> >Willow can pee for England
>
> ROTFLMAO!!!!!

:-)))  Yep, if nothing else, we'd get a gold in that one.

Deb.
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He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

Monique Y. Mudama - 05 Sep 2006 21:31 GMT
> A 10 kg bag of Yesterday's News will last me about 2 weeks (4 cats,
> 2 trays) under these circumstances, and it costs about £11 at my
> local shop.

Oscar refused to believe me when I told her that stuff was litter --
she chose to pee on my shirt instead!

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Christina Websell - 06 Sep 2006 16:32 GMT
>> I need some advice.  Is this normal?   Can a tiny cat pee up nearly the
>> whole box in less than 48 hours?
>> If so, how do you who have a lot of cats cope with litterbox duties?  It
>> must be your life's work :-)
>
> I wouldn't be worried - at least she is using it.

Well, mainly!

> Each one of my cats
> produces varying amounts of pee. Willow can pee for England, the two
> boys much more modest amounts. Cocoa is usually OK except if she gets
> cystitis (rarely) then it's tiny amounts and off to TED.

It's interesting that they vary.  It's good to know as before Kitty's CRF
they both insisted on using the great outdoors so I don't have a clue what's
normal or not.

> Willow could easily pee up a box in 48 hrs or less. If all my cats are
> in, there would be 2 boxes changed twice daily, to give you an idea.
> I hate the gravel-type litter. As you found, it turns into sticky clay
> when wet and quickly ruins a plastic litter tray, and is nasty to clean
> out.

I'm going to have to experiment a bit I suppose.

> Pine pellets are OK but they track easily and will stain
> light-coloured floors.

I don't want to use wood based litter anyway.  My main winter heating is a
woodburner and I bring in enough wood to last the evening (a surprising
amount..) and store it near the fire on top of a couple of plastic sacks.
It generates bark/sawdust and Kitty was peeing in this woodlitter last
winter.  I don't want her to learn that.

> Mine are all happy with 'Yesterday's News', a
> recycled newspaper pellet litter, which doesn't track, doesn't smell and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> trays) under these circumstances, and it costs about £11 at my local
> shop.

I'm ambivalent about newspaper litter too!   Sorry, you're trying to help
and I keep saying it might not work!  Kitty will also pee on a newspaper
that I've just been reading if I put it down on the floor while I do
something else.  she soaked my TV mag when I went into the kitchen to make a
cuppa, so newspaper is probably out too.  Although I've heard of this brand,
I've never seen it available around here.

> May or may not be a useful comparison, anyway-
>
> HTH

It all helps, Deb.  Thanks.  I'd like to find a solution that suits us both
(me and Kitty.)  If this coarser clumping litter doesn't work, I might try
the crystals I have seen in the supermarket.

Tweed
Dan M - 05 Sep 2006 21:02 GMT
> I need some advice.  Is this normal?   Can a tiny cat pee up nearly the
> whole box in less than 48 hours?
> If so, how do you who have a lot of cats cope with litterbox duties?  It
> must be your life's work :-)

We've got 6 cats in the house. We also have 7 litter boxes, and the
kitties also use the back yard for their litter some of the time. Even so,
I have to scoop the litter boxes at least once a day, sometimes twice.
They seem to prefer two of the boxes specially; those boxes need to be
scooped twice most days.
Christina Websell - 06 Sep 2006 17:35 GMT
>> I need some advice.  Is this normal?   Can a tiny cat pee up nearly the
>> whole box in less than 48 hours?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> They seem to prefer two of the boxes specially; those boxes need to be
> scooped twice most days.

Seems reasonable for 6 cats kept in a lot of the time, I suppose?  What do
you do with the used litter?  I've wrapped what I have up to now and put it
in the dustbin (garbage can) for unrecyclable waste but I'm not sure if this
is okay or not here in UK.  Is it in USA?
I have a black wheelybin for unrecycs.  I am not expected to fill it too
much.  I have a green bag to put my (washed) cans and plastic bottles in.  I
have a red bag for paper and cardboard.  I have a small plastic box for
glass bottles and jars.  One week the men come and empty the black bin and
the next week the rest.  Woe betide you if your black bin is so full that
the lid isn't shut.  They refuse to empty it then!  That means another
fortnight before your black bin is emptied so you must find a way of getting
rid of some of what is inside otherwise it will be a month old.   Ewwww.

It doesn't apply to me, really.  Before I had the job I have now I worked
for an environmental charity.  All I was taught there still remains in my
mind.  Turn off unnecessary lights!  Recycle, recycle, recycle.  Save water.
Stop using disposable nappies.  If you need a car use the smallest that will
meet your needs.  Etc.
I have to put my black bin on the edge of the property to be emptied.  My
next door neighbour (whose bin was full) came and asked when the bins were
out, if she could put some of her waste in my bin.  I asked why her own bin
was already full as mine just had a tiny amount in the bottom of it.

Disposable nappies!  I said, yes, on this one occasion, but as your child is
now 3 and a half, either potty train him or use terry nappies and wash them.
I explained about landfill use and disposable nappies.  How much dn's
contribute to landfill which we are pretty short of here in Britain.
She said "But it's much more convenient for me to use a disposable nappy."
That fell on deaf ears, then ;-)

I've been concerned for a little while about how this child never has a
bedtime.  He is up at 10.30 pm all the time and if a neighbour BBQ is in the
offing, he's up until 2-3 a.m.
I have stopped them putting his nappies in my bin. They need to tt him or
use terry towelling.  He is way too old to be in nappies, and no, he has no
special needs.
I am probably old fashioned.
When I was a baby there were no disposable nappies.  My mother had to wash
out lots of towelling nappies every day, which probably explained why I was
toilet trained on potty at 10 months old and never wet/soiled a nappy after
that (according to my mother.)
Seems unusual to me, but mom said "definitely."  Can't argue with that.

Tweed
Dan M - 06 Sep 2006 18:07 GMT
> Seems reasonable for 6 cats kept in a lot of the time, I suppose?  What do
> you do with the used litter?  I've wrapped what I have up to now and put it
> in the dustbin (garbage can) for unrecyclable waste but I'm not sure if this
> is okay or not here in UK.  Is it in USA?

Yep. I bag it and toss it in the trashcan. I suppose if one used pine or
paper litter it might be possible to compost the used litter, but I'm not
sure about that.
Cheryl Perkins - 06 Sep 2006 18:57 GMT
>> Seems reasonable for 6 cats kept in a lot of the time, I suppose?  What do
>> you do with the used litter?  I've wrapped what I have up to now and put it
>> in the dustbin (garbage can) for unrecyclable waste but I'm not sure if this
>> is okay or not here in UK.  Is it in USA?

> Yep. I bag it and toss it in the trashcan. I suppose if one used pine or
> paper litter it might be possible to compost the used litter, but I'm not
> sure about that.

I put it in old grocery bags and throw it out. I've always been told that
you can't compost anything with animal waste in it because of the
possibility of transmitting disease (toxoplasmosis, maybe?) and
attracting other animals although really, how does someone with an open
compost pile know that local animals aren't depositing their waste in it
anyway? Still, even when I'm dabbling in outdoors composting, I don't put
my used kitty litter in it, although I use the old-fashioned (and cheap)
clay type which is basically dirt anyway.

I've tried clumping litter, but I found it was tracked all over the place
even more than the clay, and I prefered emptying and washing the entire
tray regularly to scooping it out.

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Pat - 06 Sep 2006 19:57 GMT
> I've tried clumping litter, but I found it was tracked all over the place
> even more than the clay

If you put a small rug near the box, so the cat has to walk across it first
when leaving the box, this catches what would otherwise be falling from paws
elsewhere. I just pick the little rug up and hold it above the litterbox and
let the granules fall back into the box. Uncut (knobby) pile rugs work best
for this.
Magic Mood Jeep© - 06 Sep 2006 19:00 GMT
>>> I need some advice.  Is this normal?   Can a tiny cat pee up nearly
>>> the whole box in less than 48 hours?
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
> that.
> Tweed

I'm with you.  These parents are *LAZY*, no ifs ands or buts about it (no
pun intended... or is it?).  It sickens me to see any child with the ability
to walk still be in diapers (barring learning disabilities... but then
again, if they can learn to walk, they can learn to flush).  This child will
probably still be in diapers when it starts school, and then be crying every
day because the other kids torment him - and then the *other* parents and
the school system will be blamed, because the lazy parents want no
responsibility.
Christina Websell - 06 Sep 2006 20:16 GMT
>> disposable
>> nappies.  How much dn's contribute to landfill which we are pretty
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> ability to walk still be in diapers (barring learning disabilities... but
> then again, if they can learn to walk, they can learn to flush).

Well, not necessarily.  Children will continue to poo and pee in their
nappies long after they are able to be toilet trained if their parents can't
be a**ed to teach them how to do it.  That seems to be the case next door.
I am keeping my eye on it.
They know what my job is, I was unable to ignore my concerns and I mentioned
it to them.
Too bad if we fall out.  I don't really care.
The mother wants to keep the child young from what she has said.  To enjoy
him. Like a baby.  This is not a baby.  He is 3.

This child will
> probably still be in diapers when it starts school, and then be crying
> every day because the other kids torment him - and then the *other*
> parents and the school system will be blamed, because the lazy parents
> want no responsibility.

Children are not allowed to start "ordinary" school here if they are still
in nappies.  By then, they are nearly 5.  If they are not out of nappies by
then they are considered to have special needs and have to go to  a
different "special" school.
I was 4 at my first day of school.  We were all singing hymns first thing
when I desperately wanted to wee.  I remember it well.  I put my hand up.
Teacher said "why are you putting your hand up/ put it down"  So I did.  I
tried to sing again but I was absolutely bursting.  I put my hand up again.
Teacher said "what, you again? Put your hand down"  I did.
Then I peed all over the floor.  I couldn't hold it any longer.
I have never forgotten that.  That an adult has so much control over a child
is why I do the work I do now.  Stepfather had a hand in it too.

Tweed
Monique Y. Mudama - 06 Sep 2006 21:20 GMT
>> I'm with you.  These parents are *LAZY*, no ifs ands or buts about it (no
>> pun intended... or is it?).  It sickens me to see any child with the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> be a**ed to teach them how to do it.  That seems to be the case next door.
> I am keeping my eye on it.

Seems like a lot of people are awfully concerned with how others
choose to raise their kids.

It's one thing to freak out because a kid's being hit or verbally
abused; quite another to freak out because the kid is in diapers
longer than someone other than the parent is appropriate, or because
they stay up later than some other person thinks is appropriate.

I was going to ignore this whole subthread, but the idea that a parent
would be reported to a child protection service because they have
different parenting philosophies than whatever the current trend is
makes me ill.

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Christina Websell - 06 Sep 2006 21:53 GMT
>>> I'm with you.  These parents are *LAZY*, no ifs ands or buts about it
>>> (no
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> different parenting philosophies than whatever the current trend is
> makes me ill.

I guess you know all about it then, Monique.
You have no children, yes?  Then how can you say what or what is not
appropriate?
It sounds alarm bells to me.  I have 17 years service in child protection
and there is something about it I don't like.
I haven't reported anything. Yet.  I hope not to do so.

Tweed
Monique Y. Mudama - 06 Sep 2006 22:44 GMT
>> It's one thing to freak out because a kid's being hit or verbally
>> abused; quite another to freak out because the kid is in diapers
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> protection and there is something about it I don't like.  I haven't
> reported anything. Yet.  I hope not to do so.

I know that I have friends who have kids still in their diapers at 2 and
older, and it's not a big deal. I know that I have friends who find that
some of their kids do best going to bed later than would typically be
recommended, and they're fine.  (As one friend pointed out, gee,
everyone gets their kids to bed by 7 and then wonders why the kids won't
sleep through the night!)  I know that a lot of people feel that letting
kids determine on their own when they're done with diapers is a lot
healthier than forcing it on them, not to mention ending up with far
fewer messes that need to be cleaned up.  I know that for any child
rearing expert that recommends something, there's another who vehemently
opposes it.  You were implying that a kid wearing diapers at 2 or 3 is
at great risk to still be wearing them at 5.  Right.  Because toddlers
don't change much at all in two years *snort*.

I don't have children, but unless you've been keeping remarkably quiet
about it, neither do you.  Having 17 years of seeing the worst that
parents can do is not necessarily conducive to having a realistic view
of parenting.

I don't doubt your concern for the welfare of children.  I just
completely disagree with the reasons you described for worrying about
your neighbors' child.  If you'd said, "They're always yelling at the
child," "They hit the child," or, "I've noticed the parents like to
torture small animals every Thursday," okay.  But presumably clean,
frequently changed diapers?  Give me a break.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Rhonda - 06 Sep 2006 19:03 GMT
> Seems reasonable for 6 cats kept in a lot of the time, I suppose?  What do
> you do with the used litter?  I've wrapped what I have up to now and put it
> in the dustbin (garbage can) for unrecyclable waste but I'm not sure if this
> is okay or not here in UK.  Is it in USA?

Some cities say not to put pet waste in the trash. I always wonder if
anyone follows that?

We use Feline Pine, which I love because it covers the scent. The poo
that is scooped out can be flushed. The rest of it, the wet saw dust,
composts very nicely. We have a huge compost bin, actually 2 bins, and
dump it in there. It doesn't take long to compost at all.

If we would have put the litter in the trash instead -- we'd have HEAVY
trash. I feel a little more eco-friendly this way and we get good compost.

We used to use a recycled paper pellet (similar to Yesterday's News,)
but it took forever to compost. Those little paper pellets were like bricks.

Rhonda
Monique Y. Mudama - 06 Sep 2006 19:39 GMT
> Some cities say not to put pet waste in the trash. I always wonder
> if anyone follows that?

I've been wondering about this too.  I know that you're not supposed
to put fecal matter in the trash (urine is typically not a problem
however it's disposed), but I never see anything really making a point
of this or suggesting alternatives.

A book I read in preparation for hiking, literally entitled "How to
sh.t in the Woods", goes to great lengths describing how careful you
need to be about not getting fecal matter into the local garbage
systems, even in trace amounts, like diapers.  But if this is such a
big deal, I would think there would be laws or at least advisories.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Rhonda - 07 Sep 2006 05:08 GMT
>>Some cities say not to put pet waste in the trash. I always wonder
>>if anyone follows that?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> however it's disposed), but I never see anything really making a point
> of this or suggesting alternatives.

I did some reading as more cats joined the household. There is bacteria
in the poo that they worry about affecting kids and older people --
that's why they don't suggest putting it in compost. The two ways I read
that is best to dispose it is either to flush it or bury it. Then
there's also some worry about pet waste getting into the ground water...
one article said flushing is best because the sewage is treated.

> A book I read in preparation for hiking, literally entitled "How to
> sh.t in the Woods", goes to great lengths describing how careful you
> need to be about not getting fecal matter into the local garbage
> systems, even in trace amounts, like diapers.  But if this is such a
> big deal, I would think there would be laws or at least advisories.

I would think so too.

Rhonda
kilikini - 07 Sep 2006 11:25 GMT
> >>Some cities say not to put pet waste in the trash. I always wonder
> >>if anyone follows that?
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Rhonda

You're not supposed to put it in the trash?  Bury it?  Where?  How?  With
three cats, I remove a rather heavy grocery store plastic bag full of, um,
"stuff", daily.  I take it to my outside garbage bin and toss it.  Our
garbage men come every Mon. & Thurs. (oops, that's today!) and no one's ever
told me not to toss used litter.  Trust me, you can smell it in there, too,
after it sits for 3 days, baking in the hot Florida sun.

kili
Jo Firey - 07 Sep 2006 17:14 GMT
> You're not supposed to put it in the trash?  Bury it?  Where?  How?  With
> three cats, I remove a rather heavy grocery store plastic bag full of, um,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> kili

Rules here are you do put animal waste in the dumpster.  (The gray one).

We have a service that cleans up the dog poop in the back yard and they make
it clear as part of their contract that what they collect will be put in a
plastic bag and put in your trash as per local ordinances.  They are not
allowed to remove it from  your property and dispose of it elsewhere.

Just so you don't put it in the green waste or the recyclables.

Jo
kilikini - 07 Sep 2006 20:03 GMT
> > You're not supposed to put it in the trash?  Bury it?  Where?  How?  With
> > three cats, I remove a rather heavy grocery store plastic bag full of, um,
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Jo

Ah, okay.  We don't recycle here where I am, so I'm doing alright.  I was
afraid it was incorrect to put the stuff in the trash can!  Thanks.

kili
Karen AKA Kajikit - 07 Sep 2006 04:31 GMT
>> Seems reasonable for 6 cats kept in a lot of the time, I suppose?  What do
>> you do with the used litter?  I've wrapped what I have up to now and put it
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>We used to use a recycled paper pellet (similar to Yesterday's News,)
>but it took forever to compost. Those little paper pellets were like bricks.

Ditto... well, kind of ditto. The litterbox is in the bathroom next to
the toilet, and filled with Feline Pine. Every day I come along and
rake it smooth and scoop the poop straight into the toilet bowl to
flush away. The actual box gets changed once a week, and the litter
gets tied up in a garbage bag and put in the skip. Feline Pine seems
to be less messy than Yesterday's News and it definitely smells
better!
Jo Firey - 05 Sep 2006 22:37 GMT
> Blimey.  When I got KFC a box to use - having never had one before - I
> naively thought that with one tiny 4lb cat using it, I might get away with
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Tweed

When we are home both Jake and Molly have access to outside.  Including a
mammoth litter box (vacant lot with freshly turned dirt) across the street.
I have to remember to check the litter box, as they don't use it often and
they do cover.  I use a good clumping litter and scoop a few times a week.
I change it all out every two to four weeks depending.

When we leave them home, I leave two full clean litterboxes, several large
bowls of dry food, and several sources of water.  If we are gone three
nights it looks like they have spent the time we were away having a contest
to see who could eat drink and eliminate to most while we were gone.

Jo
Pat - 06 Sep 2006 01:53 GMT
> Blimey.  When I got KFC a box to use - having never had one before - I
> naively thought that with one tiny 4lb cat using it, I might get away with
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> If so, how do you who have a lot of cats cope with litterbox duties?  It
> must be your life's work :-)

Sorry, but... ROFL!!! I can not only picture it.... I *do* it, daily....
sigh....

A clowder of 7 keeps a slave quite busy, not just cleaning boxes (imagine
doing what you're doing with one box, twice each day times five!....) but
also hunting for ways to tighten the belt to accommodate the cost of the
litter.

I recommend using woodstove pellets. It's the cheapest thing I found so far.
It's like Feline Pine only cheaper. A large sack of FP (or the equivalent of
stove pellets) lasts at least a month even with 7 cats peeing in it daily.
Pat - 06 Sep 2006 02:08 GMT
> A large sack of FP (or the equivalent of stove pellets) lasts at least a
> month even with 7 cats peeing in it daily.

A few things I neglected to mention (and now having read the other replies):

(1) pine pellets don't stick to the plastic;

(2) you don't scoop out the peed-up spots in pellets, you just lift out the
poopies and leave the pee;

(3) if KFC doesn't like pellets you can mix clay + corncob litter 50/50 and
it will make the clumps less sticky;

(4) you can often get really cheap and not too coarse or fine clay litter
sold in auto parts stores, for sopping up oil spills off concrete.

I only use pellets in two of the 5 oversized boxes here, because some of the
owners like having the other kind available. I rarely find any poop in the
pellets. They like to use it to pee. And it never stinks until it's ready to
toss anyway.

HTH
Christina Websell - 06 Sep 2006 20:28 GMT
> Sorry, but... ROFL!!! I can not only picture it.... I *do* it, daily....
> sigh....
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> equivalent of stove pellets) lasts at least a month even with 7 cats
> peeing in it daily.

Wood pellets would be the very last choice as I have a woodburner and Kitty
was peeing on the wood debris next to the fire.  I don't want her to pee on
wood in any of its forms.

Tweed
Pat - 06 Sep 2006 20:39 GMT
> Wood pellets would be the very last choice as I have a woodburner and
> Kitty was peeing on the wood debris next to the fire.  I don't want her to
> pee on wood in any of its forms.

If you're concerned that she will go back to using the wood debris, why not
make a box for the wood, and keep it in there. Debris will then only collect
in the wood box, instead of on the floor.
Karen AKA Kajikit - 07 Sep 2006 04:34 GMT
>> Sorry, but... ROFL!!! I can not only picture it.... I *do* it, daily....
>> sigh....
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>was peeing on the wood debris next to the fire.  I don't want her to pee on
>wood in any of its forms.

I don't know about KFC, but our cats have no difficulty in telling the
difference between sawdust in the litterbox (to be peed on) and
sawdush that's been scratched out (to be ignored). It's not just the
litter, it's where the litter is and how it's contained that makes it
a bathroom...
Cheryl Perkins - 07 Sep 2006 11:44 GMT
> I don't know about KFC, but our cats have no difficulty in telling the
> difference between sawdust in the litterbox (to be peed on) and
> sawdush that's been scratched out (to be ignored). It's not just the
> litter, it's where the litter is and how it's contained that makes it
> a bathroom...

I once put some leftover unused litter in an old plastic bucket - a very
small one, actually a former dishwasher detergent container; there's no
way anything but the tiniest kitten could have actually stood in it. I
found a neat pyramid of litter piled next to the bucket (with a proper,
recently cleaned litter box about a foot away!), and I put a cover on the
bucket.

In my experience, cats usually take elimination extremely seriously, but
the results of their efforts are often a little off from the human point
of view - like when they have four paws in the tray, and their backside
hanging over the edge, or dig to China, scattering litter hither and yon
rather than piling it up neatly, or carefully pile litter up on the
carpet instead of in their box.

Signature

Cheryl

Monique Y. Mudama - 10 Sep 2006 06:26 GMT
> In my experience, cats usually take elimination extremely seriously,
> but the results of their efforts are often a little off from the
> human point of view - like when they have four paws in the tray, and
> their backside hanging over the edge, or dig to China, scattering
> litter hither and yon rather than piling it up neatly, or carefully
> pile litter up on the carpet instead of in their box.

Oscar's litterbox is currently in DH's bathroom, close to the tub.
She diligently paws at the wall of the tub as if somehow that will
help anything.  If the humans want the poo covered, we have to do so
ourselves!

I did notice that when she had the runs from her antibiotics, she
developed much more accurate habits.  She would carefully dig a hole
into the litter, poop into it exactly, and then cover it.

(GW)

.
.
.
.
.
.

The problem was that the material was so runny that in trying to cover
it completely, she'd often get it on her paws.  And it apparently
smelled weird to her, because she would sniff at it, and because she
was wearing the e-collar, she would get the stuff on the rim of her
collar.  Particularly fun when she did this while I was at work, and
so the poor girl had that in front of her nose all day, not to mention
getting it into her food dish, the carpet, etc ...

I felt so awful for her (and for myself, too!).  I'm not sure there's
any condition she could have where giving her this stuff makes any
sense, because it makes her so ill.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

meeee - 10 Sep 2006 21:54 GMT
>> In my experience, cats usually take elimination extremely seriously,
>> but the results of their efforts are often a little off from the
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> developed much more accurate habits.  She would carefully dig a hole
> into the litter, poop into it exactly, and then cover it.

Most of mine are ok; the usual litter scattering. But Cougar (siamese) is
absolutely hopeless. She digs for about half an hour, refuses to cover up,
and pees over the edge of the box. Is it just me, or do cats who have lived
outdoors ie. feral like Jasmine, have better toilet habits than indoor
raised cats??
tension_on_the_wire - 11 Sep 2006 04:44 GMT
> >> In my experience, cats usually take elimination extremely seriously,
> >> but the results of their efforts are often a little off from the
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> outdoors ie. feral like Jasmine, have better toilet habits than indoor
> raised cats??

I don't think it is a matter of feral or indoor, as I have had the same
problem with a feral cat who did eventually come in.  The funny thing
was that my, then, totally indoor cat learned that habit of standing in
the box like a diva, and peeing over the edge.  I learned a few things
from it:

1.  If the box is against a wall, it does make it difficult for kitty
to put front paws and hang front end out of the box so that he can aim
his hind end better.  Ideally, though very difficult in most
situations, is to have no walls abut the box (sorry bout pun).  Even if
you pull it out by two or three inches, it makes a big difference.

2.  I clean my boxes twice a day.  I have three boxes and two cats.
The cat who learned how to pee over the edge is one of them, and is
extremely picky about using a box that has been previously peed in,
including by herself, and rather than dig and risk the chance of
getting her precious paws contaminated, she'll just walk over to some
part of the litter that looks okay and try for it, hence the accidents.
If the box is totally clean, she never misses.

3.  Plus, I clean my boxes twice a day because one of our cats is a new
kitten and they are the only ones that get primary toxoplasmosis,
usually, since most adult cats are already carriers.  Toxoplasmosis is
transmitted by the feces, but only by feces which are more than 48 hrs
old, when the larvae become active, or the eggs hatch or some such.  So
since I want neither the new kitten nor our 5 yr. old child exposed, I
rigorously clean the boxes twice a day.

3a.  Also, for those who have had babies, do you remember how much they
peed?  How many nappies?  Kittens are no different.  Little wee peelets
all over the box numerous times a day are somewhat off-putting to
Luthien the Diva.

4.  One of our boxes is outside, and Luthien the Elder is very happy
about that, as it is a new development.  She hates digging in the clay
soil, and now the backyard is clean as a whistle.  Mind you this is
California and no rain until rainy season, at which time neither the
cat nor the box will be outside.

5.  For the inside, we got a Booda box.....those Igloos with the hood
and the tunnel.  I never thought Madame Luthien would stoop, but she
does.  She still pees on the wall inside, but at least it doesn't go
anywhere else except into the crack between bottom and top, which
problem I fixed by lining the whole edge with baby wipes which catch
the pee and prevent it from running down the outside of the box, and
help seal the crack better to begin with.  The lid is off right now to
give wee one a chance to learn, but it is going back on next week, as I
had already happily forgotten about having to vacuum/hoover (US/UK)
that carpet ten times a day for spilled and flung litter.  And little
Glorio is a most enthusiastic digger and flinger!  Only eight weeks old
but I swear he acts like he's pushing a little Toy Tonka truck around
in there!!  What a boycat!

--tension
meeee - 11 Sep 2006 05:13 GMT
>> >> In my experience, cats usually take elimination extremely seriously,
>> >> but the results of their efforts are often a little off from the
[quoted text clipped - 74 lines]
>
> --tension

Thanks for those tips....I do put mine against the wall so moving it might
help. And mine are all looking to be enthusiastic diggers. Hmmmm....a lidded
box you say?
tension_on_the_wire - 12 Sep 2006 03:26 GMT
> > 5.  For the inside, we got a Booda box.....those Igloos with the hood
> > and the tunnel.  I never thought Madame Luthien would stoop, but she
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> help. And mine are all looking to be enthusiastic diggers. Hmmmm....a lidded
> box you say?

Yes, I saw them come out in the last few years and never looked twice
as I figured Madame Luthien the Choosy would never consent, but when I
had to bring her inside for a year, due to ill-health, the whole litter
box-in-the-house issue became, shall we say, pungent once again, most
especially for poor spouse who is, as I mentioned in another post, most
definitely *NOT* a cat person.  And most of the house is broadloom
carpet.  Off-white, before you ask.  I got sick of picking litter off
the bottom of my feet everytime I walked through the bathroom, the only
linoleum floor in the house, and eventually went for it.

It is a large, perhaps two foot diameter, almost a complete circle, or
globe, I suppose, when you put the lid on.  The lid almost completely
seals the box, except for one little portion where it has been extended
into a little tunnel-like affair in such a way that flinging litter, at
worst, can only be flung into the tunnel, but not outside the Igloo.
And yes, if it were white (ours is grey), it would actually look like
an Igloo from a distance.  The main problem is the leak at the crack,
which we fixed with wet-wipes, and of course the tracking, but it is so
much easier to contend with now, as all we need to do is put a little
mat at the opening of the tunnel.  There is no way, unlike from an
uncovered box, that the cat can leap from box to far away spots,
thereby sending litter to be found in future lives in the most unlikely
places, like the little one was doing this morning until I finally
huffed and puffed and put the lid back on.  So far no complaints,
though it is his first time with the lid.  Luthien is quite phlegmatic
about it all now.

They also have normal-shaped rectangular lidded boxes which are
probably more space-efficient if you are in a tight spot, but they
didn't seem to be as effective as this one.  Let me see if I can Boodle
you a picture (sorry bad Google pun)

http://www.pet-dog-cat-supply-store.com/shop/index.php?page=shop-flypage-1909-26
b569edc0136e2e26980afc1b690a79&ps_session=4565ef9812eb606d70c0ff106cfed3e7


I hope this link works.  It shows several other varieties of lidded
boxes.

---tension
meeee - 12 Sep 2006 05:39 GMT
"snip>
> They also have normal-shaped rectangular lidded boxes which are
> probably more space-efficient if you are in a tight spot, but they
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> ---tension

wow I've never seen one like that; only smallish rectangular ones. I've had
to resort to clay litter again (except for the kittens) as we have a small
and poorly ventilated house and many cats. That doesn't solve the tossing
problem; so the igloo idea looks great to me. The cats have their own room,
so the space issue wouldn't be too bad. I'll have to try and track down one
in Australia. Thanks!
Adrian A - 11 Sep 2006 09:53 GMT
>>> In my experience, cats usually take elimination extremely seriously,
>>> but the results of their efforts are often a little off from the
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> me, or do cats who have lived outdoors ie. feral like Jasmine, have
> better toilet habits than indoor raised cats??

Snoopy refuses to cover, I think she's proud of what she's done. Baggy will
sometimes burry it for her, perhaps female cats see males as underlings. ;-)
Signature

Adrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera)
Cats leave pawprints on your heart.
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk

kilikini - 11 Sep 2006 10:24 GMT
> Snoopy refuses to cover, I think she's proud of what she's done. Baggy will
> sometimes burry it for her, perhaps female cats see males as underlings. ;-)
> --

That's so funny because Tyrone never covers, and as such Chloe seems to be
the "maid" around here.  :~)

kili
William Hamblen - 06 Sep 2006 03:46 GMT
> If so, how do you who have a lot of cats cope with litterbox duties?  It
> must be your life's work :-)

I use the cheapest stuff I can find: unscented clay litter at
less than two bucks a bag.  I also use litter box liners.  I
sccop the box most days and change the litter weekly.  There is
only one cat.  She goes outside when she wants if I'm there to
open the door for her.  This cat won't cover her stools either.  
The litter box is in the utility room.

Bud
Marina - 06 Sep 2006 04:40 GMT
> I need some advice.  Is this normal?   Can a tiny cat pee up nearly the
> whole box in less than 48 hours?
> If so, how do you who have a lot of cats cope with litterbox duties?  It
> must be your life's work :-)

I scoop the two litterboxes twice a day. When you scoop that often, the
'deposists' don't build up - there's usually one clump of pee in each
(or two clumps in one box and nothing in the other) + two poos once a
day (usually in the morning). If Kitty is peeing a lot, it should mean
that she is drinking a lot, and that should be good for her kidneys.
When Frank started having kidney problems, he did drink a lot more than
before.

Signature

Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Jane - 06 Sep 2006 13:06 GMT
> I need some advice.  Is this normal?   Can a tiny cat pee up nearly the
> whole box in less than 48 hours?
> If so, how do you who have a lot of cats cope with litterbox duties?  It
> must be your life's work :-)

Yes, it can be perfectly normal.  My sister's tiny little Topaz peed
almost her weight every day. At least it seemed that way.  She and her
brother drank a lot, and peed a LOT.  My Fin never was much of a
drinker, and peed accordingly.  Same with the Princess.

Jane
- owned and operated by Princess Rita
Christina Websell - 07 Sep 2006 01:29 GMT
>> I need some advice.  Is this normal?   Can a tiny cat pee up nearly the
>> whole box in less than 48 hours?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> brother drank a lot, and peed a LOT.  My Fin never was much of a
> drinker, and peed accordingly.  Same with the Princess.

Thanks for your advice.  I value all the advice I've got about this.  Kitty
will challenge Debbie's Willow over peeing for England.  Not that this is
good. Ted says she can't concentrate her urine any more.  A function of good
working kidneys that we don't realise about.
She is pretty good about using her litterbox now but I have to be careful
about newspapers.
She drinks quite a lot as is to be expected,  she also has a touch of
dementia so if she manages to go upstairs to use the box,  which she mostly
does  WOW!
She does very well for 20.
Mostly she stays in now, her own choice.  Boyfie will bring her her
favourite food (if he can catch them)  but he isn't such an expert as she
was, yet.  Maybe a collared dove only once or twice a week.
Kitty falls on a collared dove like she was starving.  Gimme the bird right
now. Chomp.
Somehow cat food doesn't have the same appeal for her.

Tweed
Jo Firey - 07 Sep 2006 01:59 GMT
>>> I need some advice.  Is this normal?   Can a tiny cat pee up nearly the
>>> whole box in less than 48 hours?
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> right now. Chomp.
> Somehow cat food doesn't have the same appeal for her.

If she is using the litter you have, I wouldn't take the chance of switching
out types on her.

I'm sure eating the fresh doves makes her feel like a "real cat".  And she
may well be hungry.  When our little poodle was on kidney food she was
always hungry.  Its pretty low on protein as I remember.

Jo
mlbriggs - 07 Sep 2006 05:48 GMT
>>> I need some advice.  Is this normal?   Can a tiny cat pee up nearly the
>>> whole box in less than 48 hours?
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Tweed

Years ago when Princess was alive, I gave her some raw liver (cut in small
pieces) or kidney or heart.   Her main food was Science Diet, but she did
love the raw feedings.  Have you tried anything like this?   MLB
Christina Websell - 26 Oct 2006 23:41 GMT
>>>> I need some advice.  Is this normal?   Can a tiny cat pee up nearly the
>>>> whole box in less than 48 hours?
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> pieces) or kidney or heart.   Her main food was Science Diet, but she did
> love the raw feedings.  Have you tried anything like this?   MLB

She isn't allowed to have this type of pure protein - although I suspect she
would love it.  Her kidneys wouldn't stand it now.
She is doing quite well, but I have to be careful to keep any
clothes/fabrics off the floor otherwise she's likely to pee on them.  I am
not going to tell her off for this at her advanced age and state of health,
but how I wish I had not let my lovely quilted knitted blanket that my aunt
made for me dangle over the arm of my chair on to the floor..

Tweed
Pat - 26 Oct 2006 23:48 GMT
> but how I wish I had not let my lovely quilted knitted blanket that my
> aunt made for me dangle over the arm of my chair on to the floor..

Nature's Miracle will restore your blanket.
mlbriggs - 27 Oct 2006 01:36 GMT
>>>>> I need some advice.  Is this normal?   Can a tiny cat pee up nearly the
>>>>> whole box in less than 48 hours?
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>
> Tweed

Is it washable?  MLB
 
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