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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / August 2006Walthamstow!!!???
I'm hearing that the terrot plot to blow up planes out of London en route to the US originated in Walthamstow!! <shudder> I'be *been* in Walthamstow. I drank beer in Walthamstow!! It's a really nice place!! <shudder> Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh Make Levees, Not War > I'm hearing that the terrot plot to blow up planes out of London en > route to the US originated in Walthamstow!! <shudder> I'be *been* > in Walthamstow. I drank beer in Walthamstow!! It's a really nice > place!! <shudder> Bad people can get into nice places. We seem to have it held here, thank goodness. We are on such high alert here that anyone who is carrying a liquid has to drink some of it in front of security guards in case it's a liquid explosive. A lot of mothers of small babies have had to gulp down their formula milk. Tweed >> I'm hearing that the terrot plot to blow up planes out of London en >> route to the US originated in Walthamstow!! <shudder> I'be *been* [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Tweed My coworkers daughter came back from her honeymoon in Paris today. It took them 2 hours to get through 9 security points at the Paris airport alone! There were guards with machine guns everywhere, even at the EIffel tower. >>> I'm hearing that the terrot plot to blow up planes out of London en >>> route to the US originated in Walthamstow!! <shudder> I'be *been* [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > at the > EIffel tower. It's a sad state of affairs that the majority of good people have to be inconvenienced because of these extremist a.sholes. I like to book my flights for early in the morning, especially if there is going to be a connecting flight and/or layover. My flight out on September 6th will require me to leave for the airport at 5AM due to the "3 hour rule" instituted at the Memphis airport. I told John, by the time my flight arrives in Minneapolis (after a layover in Atlanta) I'll have been either on a plane or in airports close to 9 hours. He can expect me to be tired when he picks me up which is definitely not what I had in mind :( Jill good luck with your journey! I can see the airports and flight companies making money out of not being able to take foodstuffs on board! The thing that worries me, is that if you have to put valuables in the hold and they are 'lost', there is little or no compensation. Laptops are a prime example, business people and students for that matter often need to take them, but it could have disasterous consequences to have them damaged or lost. The airlines need to sort this out fast. We are supposed to be moving abroad soon, and there was stuff we had planned to take as hand baggage because we didn't want to let it out of our sight and did not want to trust it to movers. Now we may have to drive thousands of miles instead. sandra sandra > good luck with your journey! > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > miles instead. > sandra I worry for my mother - only a *week* from today she will be flying from Indiana to Virginia to visit with her "baby" sister, she will be there for a few days, then they are *both* flying to *Germany* (where they are originally from) to visit friends and distant relatives. Then back to Virginia for a few days, to unwind from the trip, then Mom comes back home. >> good luck with your journey! >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >originally from) to visit friends and distant relatives. Then back to >Virginia for a few days, to unwind from the trip, then Mom comes back home. You know what? There will be some inconvenience, but I hope your Mom and aunt have an awesome time. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh Make Levees, Not War >>> good luck with your journey! >>> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Make Levees, Not War She's been through it all numerous times (even flew to Germany (I went with her) *after* the PanAm/Lockerby incident), to her it's like getting on a bus. Yes, it *is* an inconvenience to A) get to the airport so many *hours* before the flight in order to be able to get through security and not *miss* your flight, and then B) sit around and *wait* after you have cleared security! But I still can't help *worrying* about her while she travels - the same way she worried about *me* whenever I was late getting home from <wherever I was at the moment>, y'know? > The airlines need to sort this out fast. We are supposed to be > moving abroad soon, and there was stuff we had planned to take as > hand baggage because we didn't want to let it out of our sight and > did not want to trust it to movers. Now we may have to drive > thousands of miles instead. No kidding. For the last few years I have packed in such a way that I can bring everything with me onto the plane, because I hate having to deal with the baggage handling systems. This way I know where my stuff is, I know I will still have it when I get to my destination, and I don't have to worry about it being damaged or stolen en route. I guess that won't fly anymore, at least for a while. And I can't see this working. These baggage systems are crappy enough without adding to the load. And airlines already make the call to leave baggage behind when there's no room; that will happen even more frequently with so much going into it.  Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca >> The airlines need to sort this out fast. We are supposed to be >> moving abroad soon, and there was stuff we had planned to take as [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > behind when there's no room; that will happen even more frequently > with so much going into it. It looks like the terrorists are winning. :-( SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera) Cats leave pawprints on your heart. http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk > good luck with your journey! > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > sandra I know a lot of people ship things to themselves overnight UPS or FedEx for example rather than deal with the airlines. Would this work for an overseas move? When I had to go to out of town conferences back when I was still working, there would be a line at the FedEx office in the hotel after it was over. Everyone shipping their books and briefcases back to their offices. I'd sooner FedEx a laptop than check it with an airline. Jo When it comes to items or official paperwork, i'd sooner not leave any of it to chance. Fed ex ing the stuff may work or may not, have to explore that one. I recently posted a laptop (new) to a friend in France by Parcel Force Euro48 with £500 insurance on it. It cost £52.20 to post. It was supposed to be trackable all the way, and delivered within 48 hours of pick up. They picked it up late (after I complained it had not been picked up), the tracking only worked for the time it was in the UK and its first port of call in France; it supposedly went out for delivery, but then went back to a depot (they had sent it to the wrong area) where it sat for another few days. They couldn't even tell me which depot it was at. It eventually got there in 7days! Definately won't use them again! sandra >Laptops are a prime example, business people and students for that matter >often need to take them, but it could have disasterous consequences to have >them damaged or lost. Laptops, cell phones, and other electronic devices are still allowed to be carried on. The media reported the rules incorrectly. http://tsa-7.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tsa.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php The only changes I've seen dealt with liquids and gels which are easily replaced, and increased screening. It may slow you down, but really shouldn't affect anyone but those who liked to carry on everything. Depending upon the circumstances of the trip, I could see where some could still get away with that, and just purchase liquid items at the far end of the trip. http://www.bmibaby.com/bmibaby/en/index.aspx?p=9&cf=deals1 If you read this, you will see that laptops are NOT being allowed as hand baggage in UK. Don't know what it's like in the states, but airlines here are letting virtually nothing on as hand luggage. sandra >http://www.bmibaby.com/bmibaby/en/index.aspx?p=9&cf=deals1 > >If you read this, you will see that laptops are NOT being allowed as hand >baggage in UK. Don't know what it's like in the states, but airlines here >are letting virtually nothing on as hand luggage. Yeah. I was just reading the same in another newsgroup. Do you think those restrictions will remain for a long time? Permanently? I'm thinking they won't, but then I'm overly optimistic at times. L. >> http://www.bmibaby.com/bmibaby/en/index.aspx?p=9&cf=deals1 >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > L. It's different in the states (so far). You can have small electronic devices but they will be scrutinized to a degree as never before. Jill Have no idea how long they will keep it up. Think it stupid they will allow baby milk as long as an adult tastes it - do they think suicidal bombers would balk at tasting something even if they know it to contain something it shouldn't? The greater risk most likely comes from airport staff having access to places we don't. Doubt if they are checked out often enough. Meanwhile the airlines are profiting from all the passengers having to buy stuff on board! sandra > Have no idea how long they will keep it up. Think it stupid they will allow > baby milk as long as an adult tastes it - do they think suicidal bombers > would balk at tasting something even if they know it to contain something it > shouldn't? What's to stop the suicide bomber from simply swallowing the bomb in advance? (With timer set, since they really don't much care WHEN it goes off, so long as they take enough people with them?) > Have no idea how long they will keep it up. Think it stupid they will allow > baby milk as long as an adult tastes it - Especially as according to the news- the idea is to have the dangerous chemicals in the bottom of the bottle seperated from the top half which contains an ordinary liquid so the bomber could drink from it as normal and get it through security that way then they pop to the toilet, drain off the top compartment and break into the second compartment and set the explosive off Lesley Slave of the Fabulous Furballs >>Laptops are a prime example, business people and students for that matter >>often need to take them, but it could have disasterous consequences to have [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >could still get away with that, and just purchase liquid items at the >far end of the trip. I have sent an enquiry to the Transportation Safety Administration asking about how the new guidelines will handle medicines that need to be kept refrigerated. As I understand the current guidelines, liquid prescription medicines such as insulin can be carried on board an aircraft, but the icepacks needed to keep the insulin from going bad during a long flight can't be carried on board. So, my enquiry asks whether the airlines have been instructed to allow passengers to store such temperature-sensitive medicines in the galley refrigerators. I am on two medicines that are supposed to be kept refrigerated, insulin and Byetta. SignatureJohn F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria >> Laptops are a prime example, business people and students for that >> matter often need to take them, but it could have disasterous [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > could still get away with that, and just purchase liquid items at the > far end of the trip. The liquids (which in my case would be personal care items such as shampoo, makeup, etc.) can be packed in checked luggage. Of course, if you want something to drink while you're waiting after checking through security, expect to pay an arm and a leg for a bottle of water or a soda. Jill > The liquids (which in my case would be personal care items such as shampoo, > makeup, etc.) can be packed in checked luggage. Of course, if you want > something to drink while you're waiting after checking through security, > expect to pay an arm and a leg for a bottle of water or a soda. > > Jill There are drinking fountains in the secured area at the local airport. There are also coffee shops, assuming they can still sell them in paper cups. Just hope the airlines are stocking up on drinks for on board use. There will be a lot of thirsty travellers, especially on long flights. The last time I flew I noticed many took water bottles and food on board. Winnie > There are drinking fountains in the secured area at the local > airport. There are also coffee shops, assuming they can still sell > them in paper cups. Just hope the airlines are stocking up on > drinks for on board use. There will be a lot of thirsty travellers, > especially on long flights. The last time I flew I noticed many > took water bottles and food on board. I always take a water bottle. I don't like my water chilled, and I definitely don't like it in a cup that I have to drink in a hurry. I'd rather have something I can sip on along the way. I get nasty headaches when I fly, and the water helps with it. I realize that all of this is just an inconvenience, whereas getting blown up would be considerably worse, but still ... I don't see myself wanting to fly any time soon. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > I always take a water bottle. I don't like my water chilled, and I > definitely don't like it in a cup that I have to drink in a hurry. > I'd rather have something I can sip on along the way. > I get nasty headaches when I fly, and the water helps with it. Maybe they'd let you bring an empty bottle on with you, and then you could fill it with the water they supply once you're on the plane? Joyce > > I always take a water bottle. I don't like my water chilled, and I > > definitely don't like it in a cup that I have to drink in a hurry. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Joyce When I call the airport to check on the exact things I can carry on I'm going to ask about an empty bottle. Once through security, running to the drinking fountain every time I get thirsty or buying water from a vendor (I refuse to pay $2 for a cup of water! and I don't drink sodas) just doesn't sit well with me. I understand the precautions, absolutely. They might ease up a bit before I fly out on 9/6 but I'm not going to count on it. Jill > When I call the airport to check on the exact things I can carry on I'm > going to ask about an empty bottle. Once through security, running to the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Jill I read that the local airport taped over the drinks vednding machines. But if Tim Horton can still sell drinks in a paper cup in the secured area, then it is not too bad. Their tea is around $1 CDN. I usually bought a sandwich from T.H. to take on board since the airlines are not providing free meals anymore, even on 5 hrs long flight. Another alternative is to bring a large paper cup to get water from the drinking fountain. Winnie After seeing what goes on at drinking fountains years ago at Disney in Florida, I wouldn't take my chances! I actually saw a mother telling her child to put their mouth around the tap to drink!! When I commented that it was not a hygenic thing to do, she gave me an earfull (one of the few rude Americans I have met). It put me off rather! sandra > After seeing what goes on at drinking fountains years ago at Disney > in Florida, I wouldn't take my chances! I actually saw a mother > telling her child to put their mouth around the tap to drink!! When > I commented that it was not a hygenic thing to do, she gave me an > earfull (one of the few rude Americans I have met). It put me off > rather! Eww. Why would she encourage her kid to do that? To not get wet? Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca Also curious. SignatureChristopher A. Young You can't shout down a troll. You have to starve them. . On 2006-08-14, sandra penned: > After seeing what goes on at drinking fountains years ago at Disney > in Florida, I wouldn't take my chances! I actually saw a mother > telling her child to put their mouth around the tap to drink!! When > I commented that it was not a hygenic thing to do, she gave me an > earfull (one of the few rude Americans I have met). It put me off > rather! Eww. Why would she encourage her kid to do that? To not get wet? Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca Did you tell her about the goat who had just been scratching his butt on the facuet a moment back? SignatureChristopher A. Young You can't shout down a troll. You have to starve them. . After seeing what goes on at drinking fountains years ago at Disney in Florida, I wouldn't take my chances! I actually saw a mother telling her child to put their mouth around the tap to drink!! When I commented that it was not a hygenic thing to do, she gave me an earfull (one of the few rude Americans I have met). It put me off rather! sandra > After seeing what goes on at drinking fountains years ago at Disney in > Florida, I wouldn't take my chances! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > earfull (one of the few rude Americans I have met). > It put me off rather! Considering some of the things I've seen high school kids do at water fountains, I'm not too thrilled about drinking out of them myself. I wish that there were only a few rude Americans, I've been meeting a lot of them whenever I'm with a handicapped friend of mine, lately. What is it about canes or wheel chairs that turns people into vicious pit bulls at the fighting pit. Pam S >> After seeing what goes on at drinking fountains years ago at Disney in >> Florida, I wouldn't take my chances! [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Pam S Stupidity, Fear, Cowards at heart, Some are just plain A@@HOLES But please don't think all of us are. There are a few of us good Americans still left >> Considering some of the things I've seen high school kids do at water >> fountains, I'm not too thrilled about drinking out of them myself. I wish [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >But please don't think all of us are. There are a few of us good Americans >still left I'm sure, as always, that the good, kind, polite, generous and extremely friendly Americans greatly out-number the oxygen thieves. Same can be said for every nation, I think. I've found that whenever I'm with my mother, who is confined to a wheelchair, that I tend to see the best in people. It's wonderful how thoughtful most people are and how kind strangers can be. Of course, there will always be the occasional bastard, but they're rare in comparison to the lovely folks who will go well out of their way to help a stranger. The unkindness/ thoughtlessness that *really* gets my goat is perfectly able people who park in disabled parking places - they make me see red. Tish - an Australian who has only met lovely Americans, Canadians, Poms, Buropeans and South Africans; must be lucky or something. > I've found that whenever I'm with my mother, who is confined to a > wheelchair, that I tend to see the best in people. It's wonderful how [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > my goat is perfectly able people who park in disabled parking places - > they make me see red. What I've noticed more than nastiness is *cluelessness*, which is what I'd call parking in the disabled spaces (most of the time, anyway - no doubt some people who do it *do* know better, but don't care.) Several years ago a good friend of mine had a bout with intractable seizures and was in the hospital for 3 weeks, some of it in the ICU. During that time, she lost quite a bit of weight, so that when she was discharged from the hospital, she was scary-thin, and extremely frail. But some people she knew, who cared about her, insisted on saying that at least there was a "good side" to her condition - look how skinny she'd gotten! (She would pretend to weigh the options in each hand, while saying, "Let's see... Fat..." <heft one hand> "Seizures..." <heft the other>.) Nasty jerks are usually strangers, because when someone's that horrible, why would you be friends with them? But well-meaning people who are nonetheless blundering idiots can be just as hurtful, while thinking they're cheering you up, or giving you a compliment. Joyce . But some people she knew, who cared about her, insisted on > saying that at least there was a "good side" to her condition - look > how skinny she'd gotten! (She would pretend to weigh the options in > each hand, while saying, "Let's see... Fat..." <heft one hand> > "Seizures..." <heft the other>.) A friend of mine lost 4 stone in as many hours due to appendicitis- he was waiting for surgery for some reason (don't recall why think it was because he had eaten recently) and in order to assess his condition they didn't give him painkillers- he literally sweated 4 stone off. As he always said afterwards "But it's not a diet anyone would recommend" Lesley Slave of the Fabulous Furballs > > I've found that whenever I'm with my mother, who is confined to a > > wheelchair, that I tend to see the best in people. It's wonderful how [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > what I'd call parking in the disabled spaces (most of the time, anyway - > no doubt some people who do it *do* know better, but don't care.) Please give anyone parking in a handicapped spot the benefit of the doubt. Some of us with placards will occasionally forget to put them out. And trust me, you cannot always tell that a person is perfectly able by looking at them. There are many hidden disabilities. Jo > > > I've found that whenever I'm with my mother, who is confined to a > > > wheelchair, that I tend to see the best in people. It's wonderful how [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > what I'd call parking in the disabled spaces (most of the time, anyway - > > no doubt some people who do it *do* know better, but don't care.) > Please give anyone parking in a handicapped spot the benefit of the doubt. > Some of us with placards will occasionally forget to put them out. And > trust me, you cannot always tell that a person is perfectly able by looking > at them. There are many hidden disabilities. Absolutely. I don't suggest going up to someone who looks able-bodied and yelling at them for parking in the disabled spot. I was just saying that some people who don't have a disability at all do it anyway. And I take it back that this is done out of cluelessness rather than out of knowing-but-not-caring. It is the latter. I don't think anyone who has a driver's license (and if they don't...!) would not know what the blue wheelchair icon is for! (Is that an international symbol for disabled access, btw?) Joyce > Nasty jerks are usually strangers, because when someone's that > horrible, why would you be friends with them? But well-meaning people > who are nonetheless blundering idiots can be just as hurtful, while > thinking they're cheering you up, or giving you a compliment. > > Joyce You're right about that. The ones I'm thinking about were hateful to a friend of mine who recently had an operation on her knees which were dislocating on a regular basis to the point where she had to be in a wheel chair. the first operation didn't work correctly and she had to have a second one which was more painful and more invasive. She's back on her feet now, but some people seem to think that she's stupid (she has Cerebral Palsy and has a speech impediment because of it) including her own parents. SIGH, why do we burden our children with our own fears and prejudices? I'm getting used to people staring at my darling North Carolinian Klingon. I just point out to the group that they're staring at us and immediately four+ people stare back. It is really rude, but almost always works. Pam S. >>> Considering some of the things I've seen high school kids do at >>> water fountains, I'm not too thrilled about drinking out of them [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > my goat is perfectly able people who park in disabled parking places - > they make me see red. This reminds me of an episode from a TV show called /Highway To Heaven/ (Starred Michael Landon in his post-Little House days). Michael Landon played an angel on "probation" that was sent back to earth to help people. In one episode, he and his buddy/partner (played by Victor French, also from Little House - he played Mr. Edwards), were going into a hospital (don't remember the reason), and encountered a couple of young males (late teens, early 20s) also entering the hospital. They had parked their fancy red sports car (Camero? Corvette??) in a handicapped spot, while they clearly weren't handicapped, had no such tags or plates on the car. Landon's character mentioned this to them, their response was the typical red-neck, ignoramus "yes we are, we can't read". Landon looks at French, shrugs his shoulders and they follow the youths into the hospital. Shortly after they enter, you hear a very loud *crash*. The youths, thinking someone has hit their precious red sports car, rush back outside - only to find that their pride & joy is still in it's handicapped spot, virtually unscathed.... but UPSIDE DOWN! I was ROFLMAO at that!!!! > Tish - an Australian who has only met lovely Americans, Canadians, > Poms, Buropeans and South Africans; must be lucky or something. >>> Considering some of the things I've seen high school kids do at >>> water fountains, I'm not too thrilled about drinking out of them [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Tish - an Australian who has only met lovely Americans, Canadians, > Poms, Buropeans and South Africans; must be lucky or something. Don't get me started on the disabled parking place abusers! They should be grateful they can still walk rather than begrudging someone a closer parking spot because they can't. I once spotted a perfect healthy young guy without a handicapped placard hanging from his mirror, nor a handicapped license plate on his vehicle. When I pointed out it was a handicapped spot he basically told me to f*** off. I smiled sweetly and said, "Fine. It's against the law, of course, and they'll slap you with a $100 fine. I see a pay phone right over there... guess where I'm headed?" Then I marched over to the pay phone, picked up the receiver. Turned around and the idiot was getting back in his car and leaving. YAY! Jill >>>> Considering some of the things I've seen high school kids do at >>>> water fountains, I'm not too thrilled about drinking out of them [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Jill Good for you! . Turned around and the idiot was > getting back in his car and leaving. YAY! Round of applause for you Jill! Lesley Slave of the Fabulous Furballs > Don't get me started on the disabled parking place abusers! They should > be [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > to the pay phone, picked up the receiver. Turned around and the idiot was > getting back in his car and leaving. YAY! I would say that with brain cancer, Rob is disabled, right? But his doctor won't sign off a disabled placard, because he says that since Rob can still walk, he doesn't need one. I beg to differ. When it is rainy, I drop Rob off at the canopy of whatever store we're at and then park the car, since I cannot park in a handicapped spot. Several times now, Rob has wandered off and we had to search entire malls hunting for him. While he's healthy, his health is still fragile enough that I really don't like him walking through the wet to get to wherever we need to go. It helps when I have a person who can stay with him while I park, but that isn't always possible. And yes, I'd like a little cheese and crackers with my whine. I personally have a problem with those who use the placard when the handicapped person is not with them. I think that's just low. I've seen it happen before with people I know who aren't handicapped but have family members who are. Totally sad. Pam S. > can stay with him while I park, but that isn't always possible. And > yes, I'd like a little cheese and crackers with my whine. That wasn't whining. It must get pretty difficult, and you do a great job staying sane under the circumstances. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > > can stay with him while I park, but that isn't always possible. And > > yes, I'd like a little cheese and crackers with my whine. > That wasn't whining. It must get pretty difficult, and you do a great > job staying sane under the circumstances. That was my reaction, too. I would hardly call talking about the difficulties of your situation whining! Joyce >>>> Considering some of the things I've seen high school kids do at >>>> water fountains, I'm not too thrilled about drinking out of them [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Jill Way to go, Jill! SignatureSam, closely supervised by Mistletoe > >> Considering some of the things I've seen high school kids do at water > >> fountains, I'm not too thrilled about drinking out of them myself. I wish [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Tish Some of us really are just clueless. I have learned one thing from my friend from church who is now in a wheelchair after being stricken with Guilliam-Barre disease: It is hard for him to constantly look "up" when people are visiting with him. He says it is so thoughtful when people sit or squat down at eye-level to visit. I never thought about that before. Sherry >> After seeing what goes on at drinking fountains years ago at Disney >> in Florida, I wouldn't take my chances! [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Pam S Pam, one of my best friends was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in her early 30's. One of the side effects of the disease is a lack of balance. Before she started using a cane, she sometimes walked unsteadily. She told me she was in the grocery store one day trying to get something from one of the shelves when she lurched sideways. Totally beyond her control, doncha know. A woman said loudly, "Why don't you go home a sleep it off, you drunk!" OMG! Jill >> After seeing what goes on at drinking fountains years ago at Disney in >> Florida, I wouldn't take my chances! [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Pam S Other people or your friend? ;) Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh Make Levees, Not War >>Considering some of the things I've seen high school kids do at water >>fountains, I'm not too thrilled about drinking out of them myself. I wish [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> > Other people or your friend? ;) Others. Kimberly is one of the dearest and sweetest people I've ever met. I'm hoping to get her to adopt a cat after we get her into an apartment of her own (if we can get her into one that allows pets.) Maybe we can squeak one in as a service cat. She adores our cats, and QC thinks that she is the most wonderful person in the world. Pam S. who knows that we can't do that, but it's a thought > After seeing what goes on at drinking fountains years ago at Disney in > Florida, I wouldn't take my chances! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > sandra She probably didn't much appreciate you correcting her in public in front of her children. Even if she was wrong, that sort of thing will get some folks back up. Jo > > After seeing what goes on at drinking fountains years ago at Disney in > > Florida, I wouldn't take my chances! [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > her children. Even if she was wrong, that sort of thing will get some folks > back up. Well, then she didn't set a very good example for those kids about how to respond to someone who might have had a very helpful suggestion! Joyce > > > After seeing what goes on at drinking fountains years ago at Disney in > > > Florida, I wouldn't take my chances! [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Well, then she didn't set a very good example for those kids about how > to respond to someone who might have had a very helpful suggestion! I'm quite sure she didn't. And I really don't mean to excuse her behavior. Just think of it as a cultural thing. A lot of people in the US don't take kindly to helpful suggestions, especially around their kids. Another possible thing to avoid. And I'm guessing it is considered acceptable in other parts of the world or the folks doing it wouldn't be quite so shocked by the reaction they get. Never, ever, correct someone else's children. Even if they need it. Even if it would be perfectly OK to do so in your own neighborhood at home. Here you are likely to trigger not only a mamma bear protecting her young response, but a highly offended parent who thinks you are acting like you are better than they are. You might well be stepping on cultural, class, and socio-economic toes. Again, I'm not defending the response. Just warning anyone not to be surprised if it happens. Yes, many of our children (and young adults for that matter) should have and show a lot more respect for their elders. Some do, but you can't count on it. Jo >Another possible thing to avoid. And I'm guessing it is considered >acceptable in other parts of the world or the folks doing it wouldn't be [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >are better than they are. You might well be stepping on cultural, class, >and socio-economic toes. American families are such independent units. More so than in any other country I know. Extended families are uncommon, children move out early, and raising your children is your own responsibility and nobody else's. Highly individualistic culture. > American families are such independent units. More so than in any > other country I know. Extended families are uncommon, children move > out early, and raising your children is your own responsibility and > nobody else's. Highly individualistic culture. Things change over time, too. I don't know if this was ever the case in the US, but here it was, within living memory, common for many people in authority - religious leaders, teachers, older unrelated adults - as well as members of the extended family to take responsibility for the behaviour and well-being of children. An adult who *didn't* scold a misbehaving child (if the parents weren't present) or give good advice on child care to a much younger parent would be considered to be falling down on his or her duty to teach younger people how to behave. And if a child's offense was serious enough, the adult would report it to the parents as well, resulting in a double punishment for the child. This was commonplace in my mother's childhood (say, the 1940s) and existed to some extent in mine. Now, of course, you can get threatened with a lawsuit or worse if you interfere at all between a parent and a child - and charged with a crime if you *don't* interfere when you suspect abuse is occuring. SignatureCheryl >> American families are such independent units. More so than in any >> other country I know. Extended families are uncommon, children move [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >interfere at all between a parent and a child - and charged with a crime >if you *don't* interfere when you suspect abuse is occuring. This country has always seesawed back and forth, to some extent, between communitarian and individualistic values, which reflects the divisions between urban, suburban and rural areas. Different values flourish in different places. The kind of community involvement you describe isn't as easy when you live miles away from your neighbor-- and people who don't *want* that kind of involvement tended to gravitate away from cities and towns. My mother and father grew up on streets where their mothers-- and everybody else's mothers-- were popping out of windows all the time, yelling at everybody's kids. ;) Theresa Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh Make Levees, Not War > This country has always seesawed back and forth, to some extent, > between communitarian and individualistic values, which reflects the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > on streets where their mothers-- and everybody else's mothers-- were > popping out of windows all the time, yelling at everybody's kids. ;) That certainly contradicts the usual stereotypes of the small, rural towns where everyone knows everyone else's business, and the big, impersonal, anonymous city where nobody pays any attention to what's going on 10 feet away from them. Interesting! Joyce > > This country has always seesawed back and forth, to some extent, > > between communitarian and individualistic values, which reflects the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Joyce That's kind of what I thought...but I imagine at the time her parents were growing up, each neighborhood was like a little community of its own. Growing up in a small town, I definitely was raised by the whole village. I can't count the number of times someone had already called my parents to report some indiscretion I'd committed before I even got home. Sjerru > That's kind of what I thought...but I imagine at the time her parents > were growing up, each neighborhood was like a little community of its [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > my parents to report some indiscretion I'd committed before I even got > home. Oh, I would have hated that! The only people who knew who I was (and my parents) were my neighbours, whose daughter was my best friend. My school was further away than the neighbours' girl's, so I didn't even have any classmates living near me. > Sjerru It's no use, Sherry, we know it's you. ;o) SignatureMarina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/ Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki > > That's kind of what I thought...but I imagine at the time her parents > > were growing up, each neighborhood was like a little community of its [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > school was further away than the neighbours' girl's, so I didn't even > have any classmates living near me. There's a constant tension between the desire for independence and privacy, and the need to belong somewhere and know that people care about you. I live by myself in an urban area, and although I have several very good friends who all live within 5 miles (8 km) or so, it's not exactly like living in a small village, and sometimes I miss that sense of community. On the other hand, I don't miss bossy, gossipy people who tell everyone what you're up to, or judgemental in-groups that might snub you if you don't fit in with their values. Then there are intentional communities, which try to be the best of both. But it's always a struggle trying to live among other humans, and most of the time, I don't have the patience. There's a reason my housemates are all of the furry variety! > > Sjerru > It's no use, Sherry, we know it's you. ;o) Her right hand is drifting again. :) But I think it's a cool alias anyway. I hear it in my head as "Sierru". Joyce > There's a constant tension between the desire for independence and privacy, > and the need to belong somewhere and know that people care about you. I > live by myself in an urban area, and although I have several very good > friends who all live within 5 miles (8 km) or so, it's not exactly like > living in a small village, and sometimes I miss that sense of community. There's always that tension. I, too, live in an urban area, although in an old established neighbourhood. I love where I live - it's mobile enough to allow privacy (which I value highly) but centrally located so I can easily visit friends and participate in a wide range of activities that bring me in contact with new people (and, of course, new friends when an activity interests me enough to keep going with). > On the other hand, I don't miss bossy, gossipy people who tell everyone > what you're up to, or judgemental in-groups that might snub you if you > don't fit in with their values. Well, you find them everywhere. But in a larger town or a city, there are enough people to make it easier to find another more congenial group if one particular group tends to be nasty. > Then there are intentional communities, which try to be the best of both. > But it's always a struggle trying to live among other humans, and most > of the time, I don't have the patience. There's a reason my housemates are > all of the furry variety! Me, too. I value my independance and privacy. I've considered getting a roommate to help with the bills, but the loss of privacy always outweighs any benefits. Yet, there are many people who absolutely hate living alone. I guess everyone has different needs and preferences. SignatureCheryl > Then there are intentional communities, which try to be the best of both. > But it's always a struggle trying to live among other humans, and most [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Joyce LOL! I keep doing that. It's funny how all it takes is drifting one row of keys and it turns a 1950's cheerleader name into something exotic. Sounds kinda like a stripper's stage name though. :-) Sherry > That's kind of what I thought...but I imagine at the time her parents > were growing up, each neighborhood was like a little community of its [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > my parents to report some indiscretion I'd committed before I even got > home. My mother and I both grew up in small towns (actually, in the same one!) and I've always associated the culture I describe with small towns, or at least towns small enough so that any given adult, on spotting any given child committing vandalism (or whatever) can call out to the child by both first and last names, and in the course of the ensuing scolding, make reference to the child's parents, grandparents, etc. I think stability of population has a lot to do with it, too. When I first moved to our provincial capital I revelled in the anonymity of what I think was then about 100,000 people. When I mentioned this to someone who was born and raised in one of the older areas of the city (not one of the new suburbs with a lot of new families who had just moved in), she said it wasn't anonymous for her; ever since she was a child, if she did anything at all, her mother knew about it before she got home. In that case, there was a larger population, but some segments of it had been stable in the same areas for a couple generations or more, so people knew people and the connections among people were maintained in a more small-town style. If I wanted to avoid this type of highly communal living, I'd never go to a small town, and I'd also never go totally rural (isolated farm in the middle of nowhere) because such places always have *some* kind of small-town equivalent where everyone shops and gossips. I'd go to the biggest city available and pick a highly mobile neighbourhood - maybe a new subdivision, maybe an area with a lot of students or young couples saving for their first home. SignatureCheryl > American families are such independent units. More so than in any > other country I know. Extended families are uncommon, children move > out early, and raising your children is your own responsibility and > nobody else's. Highly individualistic culture. And family values can vary widely within the same neighborhood. The people who lived in our house before us, D and S, were pretty conservative. D was a promise keeper. My next door neighbor, J, has a young teenage daughter, N. J told me that on more than one occasion, when J and N were outside talking, S would march across the street to scold N for "mouthing off" to her mom -- even though in J's opinion nothing of the sort was happening! People have very different ideas on child-rearing, is the problem. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca |
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