Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / August 2006
For you Job Hunters OT, maybe
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tanada - 10 Aug 2006 08:20 GMT Guys, if you have a master's degree in Mathematics, please, Please PLEASE consider putting in a resume at Fayetteville Technical Community College. In fact, if you are job hunting and have a masters or better in any subject, community colleges can use you. There are major advantages to working at the community college level. You don't have to publish or perish, you can kick out those who act like horses behinds, and the pay is much better than at the grade/middle/high school levels.
Yes, I looked and that idjit math instructor is still there. I had it confirmed today that he flunked over a quarter of the class I was in. I don't know what it says to you, but to me it says that he can't teach. Oh, John, I learned more from the internet help you gave me than I did from the idjit.
Pam S. who really wants to learn from a good teacher and
badwilson - 10 Aug 2006 08:57 GMT > Guys, if you have a master's degree in Mathematics, please, Please > PLEASE consider putting in a resume at Fayetteville Technical [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Pam S. who really wants to learn from a good teacher and You cannot learn math from a bad teacher. I know this from experience. I never got any higher than a C+ in math, even though I was getting A's in all other subjects. I thought I just wasn't mathematically inclined. Then, in grade 12, I got a great teacher who wrote notes on the board and explained everything step by step and didn't make people feel stupid. I got an A+ in Algebra 12 and an A in advanced Calculus 12, I wrote the scholarship exam and got $500 and I got accepted into Mechanical Engineering at the University of Victoria with a scholarship (which I declined to become a pilot instead). I really hope you get a good math teacher, Pam. Bring out the inner mathematician in you!
 Signature Britta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album
Winnie - 10 Aug 2006 19:48 GMT > You cannot learn math from a bad teacher. I know this from experience. > I never got any higher than a C+ in math, even though I was getting A's [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I really hope you get a good math teacher, Pam. Bring out the inner > mathematician in you! I had a similar experience. I was just getting by with math in high school. My math teacher lectured me on how I won't be admitted to any univeristy science program. But she was not good in math either, and often had to ask her husband to help her with our math. A year later I got straight A's in university calculus and went on to get degrees in chemistry and computer science. The profs I had were great. When I met up with this math teacher again, she was surprised I was working in the bigghest private R&D company in Canada. Said something about I must have done very well in univeristy. Turned out her son was trying to get a job in the company. That made my day!
Winnie
jmcquown - 11 Aug 2006 01:35 GMT >> Guys, if you have a master's degree in Mathematics, please, Please >> PLEASE consider putting in a resume at Fayetteville Technical [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > was getting A's in all other subjects. I thought I just wasn't > mathematically inclined. Maybe you finally got a good teacher? I'm not mathmatically inclined. My forte is the written word. It was my misfortune to have a father with a degree in mathematical engineering. This is not a criticism of him; more power to him and all that :) He made me sit at the kitchen table at age nine for *hours* trying to work out math problems so I'd get better at it. It didn't help (and did nothing but frustrate the both of us). To this day I can't balance my check book without using a calculator.
Jill
badwilson - 11 Aug 2006 02:20 GMT >>> Guys, if you have a master's degree in Mathematics, please, Please >>> PLEASE consider putting in a resume at Fayetteville Technical [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > frustrate the both of us). To this day I can't balance my check book > without using a calculator. That's what I said. I thought I was no good at math until I finally got a good teacher and realized that I was perfectly fine at it. The teacher makes all the difference. Your dad sounds a lot like mine. My dad has a degree in aeronautical engineering and he was so upset that I couldn't do math, he used to lock me in my room with pages of problems and I wouldn't be allowed to come out until I had done them. But he couldn't explain it to me either, he would just do one problem really fast in front of me and say, "See, it's easy. That's how you do it, now do the rest." I would cry and cry and cry in my room and get no problems done. Every so often he would come in and check on me and when he saw that I had no problems solved, he would yell at me and slam the door. I got very intimidated. My mom would try to make me feel better by telling me that it's ok, I probably got it from her because she's no good at math either. Good lord, what a totally FUBAR situation that was :-(
 Signature Britta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 11 Aug 2006 02:53 GMT > he couldn't explain it to me either, he > would just do one problem really fast in front of me and say, "See, it's [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > got it from her because she's no good at math either. Good lord, what a > totally FUBAR situation that was :-( I'll say!! That sounds traumatic. And your mother sounds like she was useless in that situation. Hope that doesn't insult you - my own mother was useless when my father went into one of his abusive rages.
I think what really gets me in this is that he didn't even bother to try to teach you, he just wanted to punish you for not already knowing.
Purrs that you have to live with memories like that! :(
Joyce
badwilson - 11 Aug 2006 03:17 GMT >> he couldn't explain it to me either, he >> would just do one problem really fast in front of me and say, "See, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Purrs that you have to live with memories like that! :( Ack, I have to live with tons of such memories. With this recent fall out with my parents over the fact that we are not building our house to 100% of my dad's specifications, I have been doing a lot of soul searching. Especially with Dennis being away, and then doing these manual labour jobs where you have all day to think and think and think. But I think it's a good thing. I really feel like all my life I've been trying to get approval and validation from my dad. I need to accept the fact that I will never receive it and I also need to get over my need for it. Obviously I know that my dad has some major problems. My mom too, of course. Her whole identity is wrapped up in a "poor me" syndrome where she is bullied and intimidated by my dad but loves to complain about him behind his back to anyone who will listen. But she never does anything about it. People have been telling me that my parents are unreasonably controlling and that as an adult child, they should just wish for me to be happy, that's all. But I have realized that happiness is a frou-frou concept that my parents do not believe in. And of course they don't believe in it because they have never been happy themselves. Their world is always so angry and bitter, full of recriminations, what if's and disappointments. Nothing is ever good enough and there is this bizarre distrust of all other people. Do you know that my parents have never had a relationship with friends that has lasted more than a couple of years? They always meet new people, do tons of stuff with them but inevitably fall out over something stupid, usually my dad giving advice and them not following it. Then my dad gets mad, vows never to talk to them again and forbids my mom from contacting said people. This is what is happening to me right now. It's been a few weeks since I've heard from them, this will probably stretch into months if not years. How stupid of me to have even questioned his suggestions re: our house. I should have known better and just replied thanking him for the info and not said anything further about it. Ah well, gotta look on the bright side. At least this frees up more free time because I won't have to email them anymore ;-)
 Signature Britta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album
Cheryl Perkins - 11 Aug 2006 11:39 GMT Feel free to ignore unsolicited advice - here and elsewhere!
> People have been telling me that my parents are unreasonably controlling > and that as an adult child, they should just wish for me to be happy, > that's all. I finally decided that worrying about what people 'should' be or do was a complete waste of time, and in most cases that don't involve, say, obeying a law or living up to a promise, rather arrogant. People are what they are, and I tried to quit expecting them to be different, and to set limits in my own reactions and behaviour if however they were was making me unhappy. I found it helped a lot in getting on in difficult situations. It's a kind of emotional detachment.
<snip>
> years. How stupid of me to have even questioned his suggestions re: our > house. I should have known better and just replied thanking him for the > info and not said anything further about it. > Ah well, gotta look on the bright side. At least this frees up more > free time because I won't have to email them anymore ;-) So you reacted, and they reacted, and now the ball's in their court, although of course you can continue with minimal contact if you wish - cards on birthdays, etc., without expecting replies.
 Signature Cheryl
badwilson - 11 Aug 2006 15:01 GMT > Feel free to ignore unsolicited advice - here and elsewhere! > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > getting on in difficult situations. It's a kind of emotional > detachment. Yes, I totally agree. Unfortunately my dad has some narcissistic tendencies and I think he quite honestly believes that the world revolves around him. If he gives advice and it isn't followed to a T, he thinks people are doing it on purpose to piss him off. As for me, I definitely need to form more emotional detatchment. And I do. But after a few years, things get better and I get a glimmer of hope that things will be different this time. Of course they never are. I just need to face up to that fact.
> <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > although of course you can continue with minimal contact if you wish - > cards on birthdays, etc., without expecting replies. I'm hesitant to do that because I know them so well and I think that they would take that as me trying to suck up so that they will leave their house to me when they die (I'm not joking, this has come up before). I think the next contact has to come from them and I will respond in kind and no more.
 Signature Britta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album
Cheryl Perkins - 11 Aug 2006 11:33 GMT > I'll say!! That sounds traumatic. And your mother sounds like she was > useless in that situation. Hope that doesn't insult you - my own mother > was useless when my father went into one of his abusive rages.
> I think what really gets me in this is that he didn't even bother to try > to teach you, he just wanted to punish you for not already knowing. While I don't know Britta's father, he may well have *tried* to teach her. Like others on this group, I've suffered through the attentions of actual teachers, particularly at the University level, who really tried to teach me but suffered from a combination of lack of knowledge of teaching (and it is partly a learned skill, although some people are 'born teachers') and complete bafflement at my reaction when they've simplified the problem until it is (to them) like 1 + 1 = 2, and I *still* don't get it! It's often very difficult for such people to realize that their 'simple' approach contains a lot of assumptions and maybe problem-solving techniques they do automatically and a beginner, especially one who is weak in the subject, has never heard of.
But they're trying to teach. They just aren't doing a good job of it!
 Signature Cheryl
badwilson - 11 Aug 2006 15:03 GMT >> I'll say!! That sounds traumatic. And your mother sounds like she was >> useless in that situation. Hope that doesn't insult you - my own [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > But they're trying to teach. They just aren't doing a good job of it! Yes, he did try. He quickly solved a problem in front of me. That's his way of teaching. To his thinking, that should have been plenty for me to learn it. When he noticed that I wasn't doing the problems, it would have never occured to him that I needed better teaching. I'm certain he believed that I was just not doing the work in order to try to defy him. Which is why he'd get so mad at me.
 Signature Britta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album
Jo Firey - 11 Aug 2006 16:07 GMT >>> I'll say!! That sounds traumatic. And your mother sounds like she was >>> useless in that situation. Hope that doesn't insult you - my own [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > believed that I was just not doing the work in order to try to defy him. > Which is why he'd get so mad at me. You said recently in another post that your father seems to think the world revolves around him. If that is the case, it is entirely possible that he would get just as upset, maybe even more upset to think that you couldn't do the problems than to think you wouldn't.
That sort of person will often see anything they perceive as failure on THEIR child's part as failure on their own part. And they cannot accept failure.
Jo
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 11 Aug 2006 19:46 GMT > "badwilson" <badSPAMwilson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> I'm certain he >> believed that I was just not doing the work in order to try to defy him. >> Which is why he'd get so mad at me.
> You said recently in another post that your father seems to think the world > revolves around him. If that is the case, it is entirely possible that he > would get just as upset, maybe even more upset to think that you couldn't do > the problems than to think you wouldn't.
> That sort of person will often see anything they perceive as failure on > THEIR child's part as failure on their own part. And they cannot accept > failure. Yes!
I even had a friend years ago whose mother could not accept that she (my friend) would ever experience unhappiness for any reason. If my friend was unhappy, her mother felt at fault, as she believed this implied she was a bad mother. In her mind, being a good mother meant that her children were always happy.
But rather than trying to fix the daughter's problem, or apologizing for her "bad mothering", she would offload her guilt onto my friend, and blame *her* for the situation - thus making my friend even *more* unhappy!
Not that I think her mother should have been apologizing or trying to fix my friend's problems, as those aren't particularly healthy responses, either. But they're better than blaming the unhappy person!
Joyce
badwilson - 12 Aug 2006 01:16 GMT >>>> I'll say!! That sounds traumatic. And your mother sounds like she >>>> was useless in that situation. Hope that doesn't insult you - my [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > on THEIR child's part as failure on their own part. And they cannot > accept failure. Yes, that is quite true. Kind of like when I fell off a donkey at age 11 and broke my upper arm. My arm stuck out at an almost 90 degree angle for 4 days before they took me to the doctor for xrays. They just couldn't grasp the fact that something like this had happened in *their* family! They figured it was just a sprain and would heal on it's own. By this time it had started to heal, but needed re-setting. So I had to have it re-broken :-(
 Signature Britta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 12 Aug 2006 02:11 GMT > Yes, that is quite true. Kind of like when I fell off a donkey at age > 11 and broke my upper arm. My arm stuck out at an almost 90 degree > angle for 4 days before they took me to the doctor for xrays. They just > couldn't grasp the fact that something like this had happened in *their* > family! They figured it was just a sprain and would heal on it's own. Oh my god, that sounds like a really severe break - you must have been in a lot of pain!
> By this time it had started to heal, but needed re-setting. So I had to > have it re-broken :-( Aaaargh!! What a nightmare.
Joyce
John F. Eldredge - 12 Aug 2006 05:28 GMT > > Yes, that is quite true. Kind of like when I fell off a donkey at age > > 11 and broke my upper arm. My arm stuck out at an almost 90 degree [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Aaaargh!! What a nightmare. Back in 1989, I fell and broke my left little finger. This was at a Fourth of July picnic, on a Saturday, and I thought that I had merely sprained the finger, so I just stuck my hand in a bowl of ice and stayed for the remainder of the picnic.
By Monday, when the swelling hadn't gone down any, I realized that I probably had more than just a sprain. I went to my general practitioner, who sent me to an outpatient clinic for X-rays. He didn't get the X-ray results back from the lab until the next morning. At that point, he sent me to an orthopedic specialist.
The specialist was able to tell that my finger was broken even before taking an X-ray, just by looking at my finger (which looked merely swollen, rather than crooked, to my layman's eye). The X-ray he took showed that the two halves of the bone were at a 60-degree angle to each other, rather than in a straight line, and had started to fuse back together in the wrong position.
They gave me a shot of pain-killer in my hand before rebreaking the bone, but apparently didn't give me enough, or else didn't wait long enough for it to finish taking effect. The rebreaking process hurt worse than breaking the bone the first time.
The little finger had to be set in a position splayed outward somewhat from the rest of my fingers. Even now, although I now have the full range of motion back in that finger, the position it takes when I relax my hand is somewhat separate from the other fingers, and I get occasional arthritis flare-ups in that finger joint. For the first couple of months of healing, the joint was so sensitive to changes in air pressure that going up a few floors in an elevator, or driving over a hill, was enough to make the finger ache.
 Signature John F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
Jane - 11 Aug 2006 13:57 GMT > Maybe you finally got a good teacher? I'm not mathmatically inclined. My > forte is the written word. It was my misfortune to have a father with a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > It didn't help (and did nothing but frustrate the both of us). To this day > I can't balance my check book without using a calculator. I'm only just now realizing that I was very blessed in school. I had the greatest teachers. I LOVED LOVED LOVED math and used to copy down pages of quadratic equations to solve in my spare time, FOR FUN. I used to do logirithms by hand, for fun. Yes, I was a sick little girl. *grin*
And that's how I ended up in computers. I'm about as creative as a crutch, and I probably can't write a decent thank you note, but boy do I understand computers.
Jane - owned and operated by Princess Rita
Martha - 10 Aug 2006 10:56 GMT > Guys, if you have a master's degree in Mathematics, please, ..... > In fact, if you are job hunting and have a masters or better in any subject, > community colleges can use you. There are major advantages ...... You don't have to publish or perish, you can > kick out those who act like horses behinds, and the pay is much better than > at the grade/middle/high school levels. I teach math and chem as adjunct at my local comm.college, and I totally agree with you, even though for adjuncts the pay is not good at all.
> Yes, I looked and that idjit math instructor is still there. I had it > confirmed today that he flunked over a quarter of the class I was in. I > don't know what it says to you, but to me it says that he can't teach. That, however , is not necessarily so. I have been in classes, as a student, in which there was absolutely no teaching and everybody got A's. So the admin though the idiot was great, because his student evals were great. I had to retake the class with someone else before I actually learned the stuff.
I have taught one class in which out of 24 students , one passed, because the others followed an idiot who told them he could physically threaten me enought to pass them with no work. He did not succeed. And I point out that for classes in this course in other semesters, the average grade was 89. Yet if students don't learn, I am NOT going to pass them.
Of course, I don't know the particular situation. That teacher might be awful. I am simply saying that he might not be.
Martha
Jo Firey - 10 Aug 2006 16:35 GMT >> Guys, if you have a master's degree in Mathematics, please, ..... >> In fact, if you are job hunting and have a masters or better in any [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Of course, I don't know the particular situation. That teacher might > be awful. I am simply saying that he might not be. I've often wondered, how do they decide who gets to teach math anyway? I'm good at math and can pretty much learn it out of a book or from anyone who already knows how to do it. But that it hardly the norm. I was a math major until I could not learn German, French or Russian and chose to change my major. But that hardly qualified me to teach math at any level.
I get the strong impression that math in the primary grades is taught by mostly very nice, very qualified school teachers. A great many of whom really suck at math. They teach it by whatever method is currently mandated and it they can control the class are considered a success. Then you get into middle school and high school. Now the teachers are likely to understand enough mathematics to cover the subject. But again the odds are stacked against the student. Because they know next to nothing about how to teach. College is often even worse. These teachers are usually very proficient in the subject. But don't have a clue how to share it with others. Especially with the non math inclined. So too often you have a very bright mathematician trying to teach a subject to many students who have never had a decent math teacher and are only taking it as a requirement.
Yes, at each level a few will shine and learn how to teach. Some primary teachers are good at math. But I never got the impression in eighteen years of school that anyone was ever trained in how to teach math.
Jo
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 10 Aug 2006 19:20 GMT > I was a math major until I could not learn German, French or > Russian and chose to change my major. Since when are these languages required for a math degree??
I have a math degree, and I didn't have to learn those languages. (I studied Spanish for several semesters, but it wasn't required for the degree, I just did it because I liked it.)
> These teachers are usually very > proficient in the subject. But don't have a clue how to share it with > others. Especially with the non math inclined. So too often you have a > very bright mathematician trying to teach a subject to many students who > have never had a decent math teacher and are only taking it as a > requirement. I would like to do volunteer tutoring in math. I've done it before, with mixed success. It's hard for me to get into the mind of someone who's math-phobic, because for me, math was always kind of a "safe" and comforting place. And since as a student I usually picked math up intuitively, it's hard for me to break that down into the pieces that would help a student who is trying to understand. I imagine that's the same problem for a lot of math teachers who are good at math.
I have had better results just trying to communicate my enjoyment of math. Not by lecturing the student on how wonderful it is - more like, teaching them cool tricks and interesting little facts that might stimulate their interest. One time, a tutoring student of mine, who had originally started with me saying that she detested math, came into a tutoring session saying, "I tried that game you taught me last week, and it was really fun! I've been doing it all week." I was so pleased by that! I think it was something like factoring polynomials - not exactly a simple math task.
I prefer working with adults, so this is limiting, since I know that the main demand for tutors is with school kids. But there are plenty of adults out there who need math help for one reason or another, and they tend to be very motivated, as opposed to kids, who for the most part would rather be doing almost anything else than meeting with their math tutor!
Joyce
Dan M - 10 Aug 2006 19:23 GMT > > I was a math major until I could not learn German, French or > > Russian and chose to change my major. > > Since when are these languages required for a math degree?? Depends on the school. At the University of California, Riverside if you want to pursue a Masters in math, you must be fluent in German, French, Russian, or Hebrew (at least that was the case when I last looked into it, 10 or 15 years ago).
Dan
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 10 Aug 2006 19:37 GMT > > > I was a math major until I could not learn German, French or > > > Russian and chose to change my major. > > > > Since when are these languages required for a math degree??
> Depends on the school. At the University of California, Riverside if you > want to pursue a Masters in math, you must be fluent in German, French, > Russian, or Hebrew (at least that was the case when I last looked into it, > 10 or 15 years ago). Interesting. Is this just for a masters degree? Not for undergrads, right? Never heard of this for bachelors degrees.
I know a lot of important work in math has been done in the countries where those languages are spoken, so I guess you need to be able to access the original works in the native language - is that the idea? But I'm surprised that most of them have not been translated already.
I wonder what's being done in Israel these days that puts Hebrew on the list? That country hasn't been around very long, so these must be pretty recent developments.
Joyce
Dan M - 10 Aug 2006 19:47 GMT > Interesting. Is this just for a masters degree? Not for undergrads, > right? Never heard of this for bachelors degrees. I can't say for sure, but I wouldn't imagine that those languages would be required for an undergrad degree. At the time I was interested in the Masters program, so that's all I looked in to.
> I know a lot of important work in math has been done in the countries > where those languages are spoken, so I guess you need to be able to > access the original works in the native language - is that the idea? But > I'm surprised that most of them have not been translated already. I believe that's the general idea. If you're fluent in one of those languages you can follow the publications in that language without having to wait for a translation.
> I wonder what's being done in Israel these days that puts Hebrew on the > list? That country hasn't been around very long, so these must be pretty > recent developments. It's been many years since I've tried to follow developments, but I know that a lot of the advanced crypto work being published a decade or so ago was coming out of Israel.
Jo Firey - 10 Aug 2006 20:54 GMT > > > > I was a math major until I could not learn German, French or > > > > Russian and chose to change my major. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Joyce A second language was required for a bachelors degree in most of the "sciences" forty years ago and Spanish was not an option. This was at American University in Washington DC.
Jo
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 10 Aug 2006 21:57 GMT > A second language was required for a bachelors degree in most of the > "sciences" forty years ago and Spanish was not an option. This was at > American University in Washington DC. Yes, but that's something different - that's just a language requirement you have to fulfill in order to have the well-rounded education a bachelor's degree implies. And I think you only need to take two semesters to meet that requirement.
Dan was) was saying that you had to be fluent in certain languages in order to fulfill the *math degree* program, which, as I have discovered through this conversation, is because there are major publications in the field in those languages.
In terms of fulfilling basic requirements to graduate with a bachelor's, I'm glad Spanish is an option now, and not just because I like the language. I think everyone in the US should learn it, at least enough to be able to have basic conversations. Of course, that should happen far below the college level. Spanish is pretty much a second language in many places in the US.
Joyce
Winnie - 10 Aug 2006 19:40 GMT > > I was a math major until I could not learn German, French or > > Russian and chose to change my major. > > Since when are these languages required for a math degree?? I was wondering about that too. I had to take one of these languages for my chemisty B.S degree. The ACS recommended German so that's what I took. We even had to read journal articles on chemisry in German.
Winnie
Martha - 10 Aug 2006 21:23 GMT > I prefer working with adults, so this is limiting, since I know that > the main demand for tutors is with school kids. But there are plenty of
> adults out there who need math help for one reason or another, and > they tend to be very motivated, as opposed to kids, who for the most > part would rather be doing almost anything else than meeting with their > math tutor! This is true in my experience. But quite a lot of the children I see that are "poor in math" are so because they never work at it. 1. Their parents let it slide because "everybody knows that math is hard." It's not okay in this society to be illiterate; it is okay to be innumerate. 2. Teachers no longer teach long division, because calculator use is allowed in their schools. 3. "Success for every student" translates into "pass them, whether or not they know the material, so our statistics look good." Why should a child work in such circumstances?
So the child never learns the basics, and becomes an adult who never learned the basics.
Mind, from what Pam said, her specific example appeared to be an idiot, but I am speaking generally.
Martha
Cheryl Perkins - 10 Aug 2006 22:10 GMT > This is true in my experience. But quite a lot of the children I see > that are "poor in math" are so because they never work at it. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > or not they know the material, so our statistics look good." Why should > a child work in such circumstances?
> So the child never learns the basics, and becomes an adult who never > learned the basics.
> Mind, from what Pam said, her specific example appeared to be an > idiot, but I am speaking generally. There's been a tendency in some places for quite some time to teach things in smaller chunks - instead of testing a large amount of knowledge at the end of the year, small amounts are tested after a semester or even a unit. This may work well for material that comes in discrete chunks, like studying a particular novel or country, but IMO it's a disaster when it comes to a subject like math or chemistry which is hierarchial in nature, and learning the more advanced stuff can be impossible if you don't remember the basics. And teaching in small chunks encourages students to learn something for the test, and then forget it. Then the teacher, or another teacher, tries to teach something that assumes they remember factoring or what a mole is, and the students haven't a clue and will swear they never heard of it before.
 Signature Cheryl
William Hamblen - 10 Aug 2006 23:24 GMT >something that assumes they remember factoring or what a mole is, and Avocado's number is the number of molecules in one guacamole.
Bud
 Signature The night is just the shadow of the Earth.
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 10 Aug 2006 22:10 GMT >> But there are plenty of >> adults out there who need math help for one reason or another, and >> they tend to be very motivated, as opposed to kids, who for the most >> part would rather be doing almost anything else than meeting with their >> math tutor!
> This is true in my experience. But quite a lot of the children I see > that are "poor in math" are so because they never work at it. That's pretty much what I just said - adults who want to learn math are more motivated, ie, they work harder.
> 1. Their parents let it slide because "everybody knows that math is > hard." It's not okay in this society to be illiterate; it is okay to > be innumerate. "Innumerate" - did you read that book by John Allen Paulos, "Innumeracy"? It talks about the very thing you're addressing. He had some interesting examples. I actually much preferred the book "Universe in a Teacup" by KC Cole. She covered a lot of the same ground, but without the "attitude". He was judgemental about the math "idiots" out there, whereas she looked at our difficulties with certain mathematical concepts as part of the human condition, although something we can improve if we want to.
> 2. Teachers no longer teach long division, because calculator use > is allowed in their schools. It's a shame, really, because even if that skill probably isn't going to be used much, it really helps to train the brain for future mathematical studies. (And actually, I do long division all the time. I don't always have a calculator handy when I need to know a particular result.)
> Mind, from what Pam said, her specific example appeared to be an > idiot, but I am speaking generally. He was a lot worse than an idiot, IMO.
Joyce
badwilson - 11 Aug 2006 01:44 GMT >> I prefer working with adults, so this is limiting, since I know that >> the main demand for tutors is with school kids. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > This is true in my experience. But quite a lot of the children I > see that are "poor in math" are so because they never work at it. I don't think that's true at all. I think that many kids are poor in math because they have never had a teacher that they could connect with and got labeled as "poor in math".
> 1. Their parents let it slide because "everybody knows that math is > hard." It's not okay in this society to be illiterate; it is okay > to be innumerate. My parents never let it slide. My dad, who is great at math, was aghast that I wasn't doing well. I got numerous lectures on how I would never amount to anything in life if I wasn't good at math. I got locked in my room with pages and pages of problems to solve, which ended up with me in tears because I had no idea how to do them. Not only did I have crappy teachers in school, but my dad was even worse.
> 2. Teachers no longer teach long division, because calculator use > is allowed in their schools. Most of the math problems involve algebra or calculus and you need a calculator for much more complex functions than mere long division.
> 3. "Success for every student" translates into "pass them, whether > or not they know the material, so our statistics look good." Why > should a child work in such circumstances? I think that merely passing math doesn't mean you know it. I think most people would realize that, in today's school system, unless you got an A or a B, you don't really know a heck of a lot.
 Signature Britta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album
Jo Firey - 11 Aug 2006 03:11 GMT >>> I prefer working with adults, so this is limiting, since I know that >>> the main demand for tutors is with school kids. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> This is true in my experience. But quite a lot of the children I >> see that are "poor in math" are so because they never work at it. Probably true in some cases. But I wasn't getting anywhere by working at it when I tried to learn German. I'm willing to concede that others find anything more than simple arithmatic overwhelming.
> I think that merely passing math doesn't mean you know it. I think most > people would realize that, in today's school system, unless you got an A > or a B, you don't really know a heck of a lot. One thing I have never understood is just how a student who earned a C in Basic Algebra was supposed to go on the next level and succeed.
That has to be incredible frustrating.
Jo
Jo Firey - 11 Aug 2006 03:11 GMT >>> I prefer working with adults, so this is limiting, since I know that >>> the main demand for tutors is with school kids. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> This is true in my experience. But quite a lot of the children I >> see that are "poor in math" are so because they never work at it. Probably true in some cases. But I wasn't getting anywhere by working at it when I tried to learn German. I'm willing to concede that others find anything more than simple arithmatic overwhelming.
> I think that merely passing math doesn't mean you know it. I think most > people would realize that, in today's school system, unless you got an A > or a B, you don't really know a heck of a lot. One thing I have never understood is just how a student who earned a C in Basic Algebra was supposed to go on the next level and succeed.
That has to be incredible frustrating.
Jo
Jo Firey - 11 Aug 2006 03:11 GMT >>> I prefer working with adults, so this is limiting, since I know that >>> the main demand for tutors is with school kids. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> This is true in my experience. But quite a lot of the children I >> see that are "poor in math" are so because they never work at it. Probably true in some cases. But I wasn't getting anywhere by working at it when I tried to learn German. I'm willing to concede that others find anything more than simple arithmatic overwhelming.
> I think that merely passing math doesn't mean you know it. I think most > people would realize that, in today's school system, unless you got an A > or a B, you don't really know a heck of a lot. One thing I have never understood is just how a student who earned a C in Basic Algebra was supposed to go on the next level and succeed.
It has to be incredible frustrating.
Jo
Jo Firey - 11 Aug 2006 05:19 GMT >>> I prefer working with adults, so this is limiting, since I know that >>> the main demand for tutors is with school kids. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> This is true in my experience. But quite a lot of the children I >> see that are "poor in math" are so because they never work at it. Probably true in some cases. But I wasn't getting anywhere by working at it when I tried to learn German. I'm willing to concede that others find anything more than simple arithmatic overwhelming.
> I think that merely passing math doesn't mean you know it. I think most > people would realize that, in today's school system, unless you got an A > or a B, you don't really know a heck of a lot. One thing I have never understood is just how a student who earned a C in Basic Algebra was supposed to go on the next level and succeed.
It has to be incredible frustrating.
Jo
Martha - 12 Aug 2006 11:24 GMT > > 3. "Success for every student" translates into "pass them, whether > > or not they know the material, so our statistics look good." Why [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > people would realize that, in today's school system, unless you got an A > or a B, you don't really know a heck of a lot. I agree. My college has actually changed the grading standards in developmental math so that you need a middle B to go on.
And I also agree that parents who are good at something are not necessarily the best teachers; all too often, there are a lot of issues surfacing that have nothing to do with the subject matter!
But I teach, and I have seen the myriad excuses used by students who won't work. For example, they use "bad teachers" as a reason not to do their homework, yet they can do the problems when I suggest they try them in class, both before and after the assignment is due!
Mind, I am NOT saying that any of the posters do/did this; I am simply commenting on my experience.
Martha
tanada - 10 Aug 2006 18:42 GMT > In article <67BCg.6844$0e5.3435@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Of course, I don't know the particular situation. That teacher might > be awful. I am simply saying that he might not be. Martha, this teacher was kicked over from the Electrical Engineering Department when the Math department was scouting around for help because they were understaffed. He had a reputation among the other teachers. I don't know all of it, just that one of my teachers in a third department had heard of him and his inability to make important concepts understood.
For what it was worth, this guy would teach 2+ ways to solve a problem, at the same time. This is not a good way to teach dyslexics. I know this because I am dyslexic. In a short time, that class went from almost 40 students to around 20. The teacher's favorite conversations involved pop television shows, sex, his wife's body, sex, strip clubs, and taking young women to the beach. He is in his 60s or 70s. I considered that class as a hostile learning environment. Not only did he sexually harass us, but he refused to teach word problems, since he didn't like doing them. Several students pointed out to him that word problems would be on the final. To cap it, several of the students he failed took the same class from other teachers during the summer session and received As and Bs on it. I would consider him a failed teacher.
Pam S.
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 10 Aug 2006 19:28 GMT > For what it was worth, this guy would teach 2+ ways to solve a > problem, at the same time. This is not a good way to teach dyslexics. > I know this because I am dyslexic. Well, I'm not dyslexic, but I would still consider that way of teaching very frustrating and confusing! Sheesh, it's enough of a challenge to learn something one way, let alone throwing in some other thing, which might run together in many students' minds and get them all confused.
But then, I also hate software that offers 5 different ways to do the same thing. I know they do this because different people have different preferences, eg, some like the keyboard, some like the mouse, etc, but I just end up feeling overloaded with information and can't make a decision! :) Just give me one way to do it, and I'm happy.
> The teacher's favorite conversations involved pop television shows, > sex, his wife's body, sex, strip clubs, and taking young women to > the beach. EWWWWWW YECCHH!! What a TOTAL CREEP! That is disgusting.
When was this? You've probably already said, so forgive me if I missed that info. But it's hard to believe he could get away with this now. You said he's still teaching, right? I wonder if he's still telling those same offensive stories. I'd be bringing him to court for sexual harassment. One of the legitimate uses for our legal system!
I'm so sorry you had to deal with someone like that while trying to learn.
Joyce
Winnie - 10 Aug 2006 19:51 GMT .
> But then, I also hate software that offers 5 different ways to do the > same thing. I know they do this because different people have different > preferences, eg, some like the keyboard, some like the mouse, etc, but > I just end up feeling overloaded with information and can't make a > decision! :) Just give me one way to do it, and I'm happy. The seniors in my basic computer classes did complain of too much info to remember.
Winnie
jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 10 Aug 2006 20:24 GMT > > But then, I also hate software that offers 5 different ways to do the > > same thing. I know they do this because different people have different > > preferences, eg, some like the keyboard, some like the mouse, etc, but > > I just end up feeling overloaded with information and can't make a > > decision! :) Just give me one way to do it, and I'm happy.
> The seniors in my basic computer classes did complain of too much info > to remember. For me it's not so much about what I have to remember. It's more like, "Oh, which one do I do? Which one is best? Why are they showing me yet another way to do the same thing I already know how to do - now I have to make yet another decision!" I guess I get flummoxed more by the decision-making than by the memorizing.
As a teacher, it's good to have a number of different approaches to various problems up your sleeve. But I would still only teach one at a time. If the first one doesn't work well with the student(s), then try another approach. No need to throw both of them at the class at the same time.
Joyce
tanada - 10 Aug 2006 23:16 GMT > When was this? You've probably already said, so forgive me if I missed > that info. But it's hard to believe he could get away with this now. > You said he's still teaching, right? I wonder if he's still telling > those same offensive stories. I'd be bringing him to court for sexual > harassment. One of the legitimate uses for our legal system! It was this spring. Because of this class and the stress from it I blew my 4.0 average. I'm determined to do well this semester, so long as I don't have the slimy sex maniac as a teacher.
Pam S.
Lesley - 11 Aug 2006 11:06 GMT > "> The teacher's favorite conversations involved pop
> television shows, sex, his wife's body, sex, strip clubs, and taking young > women to the beach. He is in his 60s or 70s. I considered that class as a > hostile learning environment. Not only did he sexually harass us, When I was at college, the counsellor spent most of the time he was supposed to be listening to me telling me that all my problems stemmed from the fact I hadn't had sex yet and that it would be better if my "first time" was with an "older man" ie himself.
Nowadays he'd have been struck off but back in the 70's, he was a respected member of the community and I was just a student...who was obviously "not quite right", why else would I be seeing a counsellor?
I don't know if it was just me he was harrassing or whether it was other students as well.
And before you ask...the one good thing I got from that was that I learnt to say "NO!" and mean it
Lesley
Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
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