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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / August 2006Leading Jill Outside the Box
Jill, I keep thinking we need to find you a way to make money that doesn't involve interviewing with someone who will tell you no. That means thinking outside the box. The first idea I had was as a pet sitter. My pet sitter gets $25.00 when she comes once a day and $40 for twice a day visits. She usually has 10 clients daily, especially in the summer and on holidays. Her expenses are obvious - gas for her car, insurance and bonding and advertising. But she's at a stage where most of her advertising is by word of mouth.She works hard and she works long hours but she enjoys what she does and has a relatively flexible schedule. That led to dog walking. I'm not sure how many people in your area hire someone to walk their dogs but you might check into the idea. I also thought about freelancing restaurant reviews to your local newspaper. That sounds like something you could do and it might pay a little at first and then advance to something more. Afterall, Rachael Ray started in a family restaurant. Write an "Elvis Food Tour". Finally, I considered your love of cooking and wondered if you could create 'healthy homemade pet treats" and sell them at local farmers' markets or craft type shows. Maybe John would let you sell them at his art booth. You could buy seed from a locally owned healthfood store and create organic bird treats and then offer them to the same healthfood store to sell upfront and pay you if they sold. You could expand by growing your own catnip and making catnip mice. I'd be happy to send you some fabric to help with that endeavor. These are just a few ideas. Does anyone else have ideas that fall outside the box that Jill might consider to help supplement her income? Purrs that things begin looking up really soon, Jill Julie, Hobbes, Selena, Lacey, Sam and Barnabus > Jill, > I keep thinking we need to find you a way to make money that doesn't involve [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Julie, Hobbes, Selena, Lacey, Sam and Barnabus I know it doesn't sound appealing at first, but there are many people who would pay good money for a thorough, reliable house cleaner. MLB >> Jill, >> I keep thinking we need to find you a way to make money that doesn't [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > would pay good money for a thorough, reliable house cleaner. > MLB That's actually a good idea, assuming good health (because house cleaning can be difficult work). I did that when I was a student to help pay my bills. I now pay a woman to come in every other week. She gets substantially more than many people work on an hourly basis, and it's well worth it to me. She does an excellent job, but my two *primary criteria* were (1) must take exceptional care that my furbabies are safe, and (2) must be someone that I feel is honest and reliable. Actually, the two criteria pretty much fit together. She provides cleaning supplies to most of the homes where she works, but I buy all the cleaning products for my home because I want to be very sure that they are safe around cats. MaryL >> Jill, >> I keep thinking we need to find you a way to make money that doesn't [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > who would pay good money for a thorough, reliable house cleaner. > MLB Heh, except I'm a horrible house cleaner! I really am. But on a more serious note regarding this suggestion, my oldest brother and his live-in girlfriend tried to make a go of doing cleaning services on their own and it didn't fly. Jill > You could expand by growing your own catnip and making catnip mice. I'd be > happy to send you some fabric to help with that endeavor. If you decide to try making catnip mice, I have a suggestion. The best I ever had (meaning the ones the cats liked best) I used to buy at Trader Joe's, but they stopped carrying them. They were made of burlap with embroidered eyes, nose and whiskers. Actually, I suppose you could call them "catnip rats", because they were about twice the length of "standard" catnip mice, and had long tails consisting of a strip of burlap fabric (which became shredded strings in no time, but that apparently only made them MORE attractive to the cats). > > You could expand by growing your own catnip and making catnip mice. I'd be > > happy to send you some fabric to help with that endeavor. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > no time, but that apparently only made them MORE attractive > to the cats). A woman here started a "Gourmet Pet Treats" business. She makes beautiful gift baskets and puts homemade catnip mice in, also. She also does horse treats. A farm/ranch supply store let her sell her products there, probably for a percentage. She also does pet photography and pet sitting. She's made a pretty lucrative career out of a love for animals. There's a couple of young female entepreneurs in the city here who had an idea that's taking off like wildfire. They cater to the busy woman who still wants to feed her family home-cooked meals. They hold a sort of class, the women come, and they show them how to prepare various full family meals that freeze well. The provide instruction, freezer containers and the ingredients, but the participants really prepare the food. They leave with a week's worth of dinners that can be frozen and prepared quickly. Their classes are already all full. Don't know if that's a viable option for Jill; but I know she is certainly qualified for that kind of endeaver. Mlbriggs is right about house cleaning. A whole lot of people only need light housekeeping done, and they will pay well for someone who does a good job and they can trust. It's hard to find someone here. The lady who runs the shelter has a second job where she cleans two banks at night. I was surprised at how much that pays; of course it is hard work, not like light housekeeping. There are people here also who take care of elderly folks who just need a *little* help. They need to be driven to doctor's appointments and such; light housekeeping, they cook one meal a day. I think that would be fun and very rewarding. But I like visiting with older folks. They're a treasure, the stories they can tell. I used to do contract typing for an independent oil lease man. That paid very well, but I"m not sure whether the oil business is booming in TN like it is here. But I can't help thinking that Jill is way too qualified for any of this. If the job market in Memphis is that dead, would moving be an option? Sherry > Jill, > I keep thinking we need to find you a way to make money that doesn't > involve interviewing with someone who will tell you no. That means > thinking outside the box. Jill do you have access to a sewing machine? With a sewing machine, and five bucks you can make all sorts of catnip snakes like I made for Rosie and Cinders and sell them for a dollar each. I bought flour sacking at Wal-Mart at five towels for $5 and was able to get between eight and sixteen snakes per towel. you can leave one end open, or put a Velcro closer on it and they provide the catnip. You can sell them at flea markets or see if the local pet stores would carry them. Pam S. who's thought this out. > > Jill, > > I keep thinking we need to find you a way to make money that doesn't [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Pam S. who's thought this out. Pam, can you send me a pic of one of your snakes, or a pattern? Thanks a bunch. Sherry > Pam, can you send me a pic of one of your snakes, or a pattern? Thanks > a bunch. I'd like to see one of those famous snakes, too. :o)  SignatureMarina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/ Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki ...> Pam, can you send me a pic of one of your snakes, or a pattern? Thanks > a bunch. > Sherry The snakes are a hit with the cruising cats. Pam has a photo of Cinder hugging one. Maybe she could make the photo available to you. Annie, crew for Cinder and Rosie >> Jill do you have access to a sewing machine? With a sewing machine, and >> five bucks you can make all sorts of catnip snakes like I made for Rosie [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Pam, can you send me a pic of one of your snakes, or a pattern? Thanks > a bunch. Sherry, and those interested, All I did was find flour sacking at Wal-Mart. I cut a flour sack in half, leaving a stitched end on each section. Then I folded a section in half and cut it, and did it again a time or two more, then folded the section I chose in half and stitched it up into a closed tube shape with the already stitched end as open so that it could be closed with either thread or tied closed. After it was too late to do so, I had the thought that Velcro fastener would work well to close the end as well. Then I used Annie's funnel and a potato peeler (only thing we had that would fit into the funnel part) to fill up the snake, tied off the end and gave it to the girls. Cinders found it right away and fell in love with it. Right now one of ours is resting on my side of the bed where Pine Cone placed it after he got his fix for the night. When I made the originals, I used the zig zag on the machine to imitate scales, but Rob pointed out that a cat could easily get claws caught in the stitching and get hurt. So I make them all plain now. You may find that leaving them plain bothers you, but I rather like it. I'm having server problems, at the moment, so I'll be posting the pictures Annie sent me after I get my computer straightened out. Please wish me luck, I don't know enough about a computer to be anything other than dangerous. Pam S. > Sherry, and those interested, > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > now one of ours is resting on my side of the bed where Pine Cone > placed it after he got his fix for the night. How does the potato peeler figure in? Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > How does the potato peeler figure in? I used it to push catnip through the funnel as it wasn't fine enough to work it out on its own, and the tube was too skinny to put nip in without making a huge mess in the boat. Pam S. grateful for that potato peeler >> How does the potato peeler figure in? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Pam S. grateful for that potato peeler A large pipe cleaner would probably also do the trick. Jill >>> How does the potato peeler figure in? >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > A large pipe cleaner would probably also do the trick. Okay, *now* I get it. I thought it was the peeler-ness that was important, and I couldn't picture that. Also, my potato peeler is one of the newer ones with a fairly bulbous handle ... Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > >> Jill do you have access to a sewing machine? With a sewing machine, and > >> five bucks you can make all sorts of catnip snakes like I made for Rosie [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Pam S. Thanks, Pammy. OMG! All this time I have been tediously stuffing catnip into various projects with a spoon. I could have been using a funnel! D'oh!! Another easy thing is to take about a 18" square, put quilt batting in between, and lace the batting with catnip. Sew it up, call it a "Purr Pad" and throw it on the floor. It's better than TV. Sherry >> Jill, >> I keep thinking we need to find you a way to make money that doesn't [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Pam S. who's thought this out. No sewing machine. I had one once but hadn't used it in years. When my brother Scott and his now ex-wife moved into their new house, they decided to hold a yard sale. She asked if there was anything I wanted to sell. Among the items I gave her was my sewing machine. Well! Her idea of my giving items to the sale was she'd keep the money for my items! I was too embarrassed to approach her and my brother (at the time) thought she walked on water and I didn't want to ripple it, so I didn't mention it to him, either. When I finally told him after their divorce what she'd done he was appalled. Wish I'd approached him sooner; I could have used the money. Jill Doesn't sound like she appreciates any of the constructive ideas any of you offered...Maybe, like in another thread, she didn't really want suggestions, just wanted to vent. Candace > Doesn't sound like she appreciates any of the constructive ideas any of > you offered...Maybe, like in another thread, she didn't really want > suggestions, just wanted to vent. > > Candace There's also a difference between not appreciating, and not being feasible. I couldn't do a cleaning job either. I'm still struggling to lift five pounds with my left arm. So, if that was suggested for me, I'd appreciate the suggestion, but it wouldn't work. --Fil >>Doesn't sound like she appreciates any of the constructive ideas any of >>you offered...Maybe, like in another thread, she didn't really want [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > pounds with my left arm. So, if that was suggested for me, I'd > appreciate the suggestion, but it wouldn't work. Also, not everyone is "gifted" that way. One look at MY house, and anyone remotely inclined to hire me as their "cleaning lady" would seek elsewhere! >>> Doesn't sound like she appreciates any of the constructive ideas >>> any of you offered...Maybe, like in another thread, she didn't [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > house, and anyone remotely inclined to hire me as their > "cleaning lady" would seek elsewhere! That's pretty much my point and I don't think my cleaning "skills" would improve just because I was in someone elses' home. Jill >> Doesn't sound like she appreciates any of the constructive ideas any of >> you offered...Maybe, like in another thread, she didn't really want >> suggestions, just wanted to vent. > There's also a difference between not appreciating, and not being > feasible. > I couldn't do a cleaning job either. I'm still struggling to lift five > pounds with my left arm. So, if that was suggested for me, I'd > appreciate the suggestion, but it wouldn't work. Yeah, if you give advice to people with an agenda that they should do what you suggest, you're going to feel unappreciated over and over. "You don't have to do this, but may I suggest..." should be the implied disclaimer for *every* piece of advice given - especially when it's unsolicited! And I don't think the person has have to have a physical disability to decide that housecleaning isn't for her. If the suggestion doesn't work for her *for any reason whatsoever*, that's her prerogative. A suggestion is just that - a suggestion, not a command. See, this is why I don't like advice-giving for problems, unless asked. People so often have this personal stake in whether someone takes their advice, and they feel hurt, or resentful, or something, when the person doesn't do what they suggested. It's like, "I tried to help, but you don't want to be helped, you'd rather just sit and whine." Blecch, if that's your attitude, please take your advice elsewhere! I never asked for it anyway. I prefer to go on the assumption that ultimately, the person needing the help is the best judge of what will work best. Maybe she needs some input, some ideas - but she's going to make the decision in the end. Joyce >>> Doesn't sound like she appreciates any of the constructive ideas >>> any of you offered...Maybe, like in another thread, she didn't [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > implied disclaimer for *every* piece of advice given - especially > when it's unsolicited! Argh, this exact thing is going on between me and my parents right now! I made the huge mistake of volunteering too much information again. Dennis always says that I should just stick to small talk with them and I know that he's right. I just keep hoping that he's wrong... About 2 weeks ago, I sent an email to them saying that we were getting close to being happy with the plans for the house we are planning to build. I mentioned that we have talked to some builders and have decided on one who came particularly well recommended by dozens of locals we had talked to. In response to this non-advice asking, purely informative email that I sent, I received a list of 10 things that our house must have from my dad. Some of those things are completely ridiculous for this climate (triple glazing??? central heating???). For gawds sake, we're at the same latitude as Los Angeles. Let's not get carried away here. He also offered to send me this book with plans of mountain chalets in the Alps. I declined, saying that the cost of sending the book would not make it worth it, considering the completely different climatic conditions we are dealing with here and suggested that maybe, if he wanted to, he could just scan one or 2 of the plans that would be most suitable and email them to me. I also replied to each of his points in a logical manner, thanked him for his good ideas and explained why some ideas just wouldn't work here. In response to this I received a scathing email saying our house was going to be crap, fall down all around us, be a never ending money pit and he would not be talking to us about it any more as it was obvious we were way too stubborn to listen to his voice of experience. His last words were "good luck- you'll need it!!!" Let me just say here that my parents have built a couple of houses and they were way overbuilt and never fetched anything close to the price they thought they deserved to get because people just don't appreciate some of those things. I am not about to blindly follow the advice of someone who's own mistakes are glaringly obvious to me. Later that day I received another email from my mom this time, a bit more diplomatic but essentially parroting everything my dad had said. I replied to this email, also very nicely and explained some of the things they had completely misunderstood about my previous email. I then asked them to not underestimate us, that we had come quite far in our lives and therefore thought we were quite capable of doing our research, taking in all info and advice from many sources, including them, and taking from that the parts that we thought were most useful to our particular situation. I have not heard from them in over a week. I think I may be disinherited again. <sigh> This happened one time already when I was in college. I had offended them during the summer by having the wrong boyfriend and spending too much time with him, so they faxed me a letter saying they were leaving their house to Greenpeace. A few years later they acted like nothing ever happened and flat out denied the existence of the Greenpeace fax. I have decided not to write them any further emails at this point and to just wait and see what happens. SignatureBritta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album >I have not heard from them in over a week. I think I may be >disinherited again. <sigh> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >I have decided not to write them any further emails at this point and to >just wait and see what happens. I feel your pain because it is so d*mn familiar. *sigh* I have not yet worked out coping strategies for this kind of behaviour, so tend to fall back on sulks and other childish things. Likewise, my parents have not really worked out that I'm a fully functional adult and quite capable of running my life without tripping over my own feet. I hope your parents grow up soon and realise what a jewel they have in you and Dennis. Tish >> I have not heard from them in over a week. I think I may be >> disinherited again. <sigh> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Tish Thanks Tish. I'm sorry that this sounds familiar to you :-( I don't know any coping strategies either. For me, this seems to go in a cycle. Big blow up, no communication, parents suddenly act like nothing happened, slowly things get back to normal, I vow not to let them into my life so much anymore, things seem to be going well, so I volunteer more and more info in hopes of having a normal and satisfying relationship with them, they drastically step over the line and we are back to big blow up! Aaaargh! Dennis says I should learn my lesson and consistenly keep all communication with them to the weather and stuff like that, but somehow I keep hoping it can be more than that. I guess it can't :-( SignatureBritta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album >Thanks Tish. I'm sorry that this sounds familiar to you :-( I don't >know any coping strategies either. For me, this seems to go in a cycle. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >communication with them to the weather and stuff like that, but somehow >I keep hoping it can be more than that. I guess it can't :-( I think it's fairly common - particularly for daughters. I know my parents *do* love me, which is the most important thing (as I'm sure yours love you too), but the nitty gritty of parent-child relationships can sometimes be very challenging. I do occasionally remember that saying less is better and keeping it superficial is the golden rule. Easier said than done. I'd love a relationship with my mother that includes deep and meaningful conversations and genuine seeking of wisdom, but it ain't gonna happen that way because we just can't seem to find a common paradigm and can't communicate effectively. That's fine as long as I remember it and as long as I remember that it does not relate to whether or not she loves me and I her. Persephone has just jumped up onto the computer table (and is currently gently chewing my fingers to remind me that it is her dinner time). She knows how to run relationships - food and warmth is paramount; all else is window dressing! Tish > I do occasionally remember that saying less is better and keeping it > superficial is the golden rule. Easier said than done. I'd love a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > remember it and as long as I remember that it does not relate to > whether or not she loves me and I her. Then there's my mother, who is upset by the fact that we don't have deep and meaningful communication ... but just as you say, when we try it gets all messed up. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > I feel your pain because it is so d*mn familiar. *sigh* I have not > yet worked out coping strategies for this kind of behaviour, so tend [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I hope your parents grow up soon and realise what a jewel they have > in you and Dennis. Tish -- not to offer advice where it isn't wanted or needed, but here goes. Feel free to disregard =) It's pretty unlikely any of us will change our parents. Therapy is helping me to deal with the way they are, though. I read a book that talked about how all human suffering comes from the desire for what isn't. IE, if we can accept what is and not wish it to be different, it ceases to be painful. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > Argh, this exact thing is going on between me and my parents right now! <snip> > In response to this I received a scathing email saying our house was > going to be crap, fall down all around us, be a never ending money pit > and he would not be talking to us about it any more as it was obvious we > were way too stubborn to listen to his voice of experience. His last > words were "good luck- you'll need it!!!" It sounds like he can't stand to have his authority challenged, on any subject, ever. Is he just used to privilege and authority, and not used to being challenged? Or is it some kind of psychological problem, like underneath all the bluster, he's just really insecure? Kind of sounds like narcissistic personality disorder to me. I don't have a psychology degree or anything, but I do have a narcissistic dad, and all of this sounds rather familiar. In fact, I think we might have had this discussion once before. Our dads have a few things in common. > I have not heard from them in over a week. I think I may be > disinherited again. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > their house to Greenpeace. A few years later they acted like nothing > ever happened and flat out denied the existence of the Greenpeace fax. Did you save that fax? Of course, they'd probably just say you faked it if you tried to show it to them. Wow, who needs head games like that?? It's always sounded to me like you and Dennis have it together in terms of planning your life and making big decisions. So far, you've successfully moved to and lived in two foreign countries, navigating all the obstacles that one has to deal in that process. Somehow, I think you have the smarts to figure out how to have your house built! Joyce PS - what's triple glazing? >> Argh, this exact thing is going on between me and my parents right >> now! [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > all of this sounds rather familiar. In fact, I think we might have > had this discussion once before. Our dads have a few things in common. He has the world's largest ego. He thinks he's the expert in everything. He constantly whines to me how people ask for his computer advice and after he gives it they don't follow it. I have not been able to make him understand that advising someone to get a $5000 top-of-the-line system is ridiculous if all they want to do is surf the web and store recipes and pictures. He gets very bitter when people don't do what he tells them to. I suppose I should have seen this coming, but really, I didn't even ASK him for any house advice! I was just telling them that we were getting ready to get started with building soon-ish. >> I have not heard from them in over a week. I think I may be >> disinherited again. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > it if you tried to show it to them. Wow, who needs head games like > that?? I thought I had it in a box of mementos but can't be sure now because all of our Canadian stuff is in storage in a locker in a warehouse in Vancouver. When we go over there around March/April to get rid of stuff and ship some of it over here, I will look for it. But I would never confront them with it anyway. That would just make matters worse. > It's always sounded to me like you and Dennis have it together in > terms > of planning your life and making big decisions. So far, you've > successfully moved to and lived in two foreign countries, navigating > all the obstacles that one has to deal in that process. Somehow, I > think you have the smarts to figure out how to have your house built! Yes, we like to think we have it together too. I mean really. People build houses all the time. I'm sure ours won't be perfect, but we accept that. We would rather have the mistakes we make be *our* mistakes though. > PS - what's triple glazing? 3 pieces of glass seperated by 2 layers of space filled with gas. Very insulating for extremely cold climates. More insulating than double glazing, which is even not very commonly used in Australia. SignatureBritta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album > Yes, we like to think we have it together too. I mean really. People > build houses all the time. I'm sure ours won't be perfect, but we > accept that. We would rather have the mistakes we make be *our* > mistakes though. Besides, you're working with an architectural firm, I assume? So mistakes, if there are any, would be theirs, not yours, since they're the professionals. Well, unless you make a mistake that's not a bad idea from an architectural point of view, but just doesn't turn out to be the best solution to your needs... but that can happen when you buy an already-build house. > > PS - what's triple glazing? > 3 pieces of glass seperated by 2 layers of space filled with gas. Very > insulating for extremely cold climates. More insulating than double > glazing, which is even not very commonly used in Australia. Wow, I've never even heard of double glazing. Is it an old technique, or fairly new? I don't imagine either double or triple would be necessary where I live, either, but I am from the Northeast USA, and I think double glazing probably would have come in handy in some of those winters. I guess that's what "storm windows" are for - maybe a poor man's double glazing? (Storm windows are extra windows that mount on the outside of the window and add extra insulation for cold weather. They're easily put on and taken off, so they can be used seasonally, unlike what I imagine double glazing to be, which would be permanent?) Joyce >> Yes, we like to think we have it together too. I mean really. >> People build houses all the time. I'm sure ours won't be perfect, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > solution to your needs... but that can happen when you buy an > already-build house. Well, this is another thing my dad is mad about. He says we need to hire an architect to design the house for us. But that would cost us at least $20,000!!! We don't need to spend that kind of money, we pretty much took the plans of an already designed house and changed them a bit. We are working with a drafting guy and an engineer and also the builder has input. This method is costing us less than 1/4 of the cost of an architect. >>> PS - what's triple glazing? > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > winters. I guess that's what "storm windows" are for - maybe a poor > man's double glazing? I have no clue what storm windows are. Double glazing has been around for ages. It's pretty much standard in Canadian houses and northern European ones too. We actually heard that within 6 months there will be a new government rule making them mandatory over here as well, because there is so much energy wastage with single glazing. In any case, double glazing is a good thing. Expensive, yes. But definitely good. Triple glazing is just an insane waste of money in this climate though. SignatureBritta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album >> Besides, you're working with an architectural firm, I assume? > Well, this is another thing my dad is mad about. He says we need to > hire an architect to design the house for us. But that would cost us at > least $20,000!!! Eek - the last thing I want to do is add any weight to your dad's arguments. Rest assured, when it comes to building houses, I have no idea what I'm talking about. :) I just assumed one would work with an architect, but if an engineer, drafter and builder is enough, then it sounds good to me! :) > I have no clue what storm windows are. As I said, they're an extra window that goes on the outside of the regular window. They come on and off easily, so they can be put up and taken down seasonally. I'm sure they work in a similar manner as double glazing, but are no doubt much, much cheaper (and they require the pain-in-the-butt job of putting them up and taking them down, twice a year). Do the double windows open and close? Joyce >>> Besides, you're working with an architectural firm, I assume? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > an architect, but if an engineer, drafter and builder is enough, then > it sounds good to me! :) No worries, I didn't think you were trying to do that :-) >> I have no clue what storm windows are. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the pain-in-the-butt job of putting them up and taking them down, > twice a year). That sounds like something you could do to small windows but probably not the the floor to ceiling type sliding glass patio doors, etc. > Do the double windows open and close? Yes, of course. The double glass is just inside the frame, the frame can open up in any way that you would open any other type window. SignatureBritta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album Britta, you just reminded me, were you the person who showed me those sail-like deck coverings? I saw some at a hotel in Boulder this weekend, and I wonder if that means they can withstand the heavy winds we sometimes get. DH of course insists that they would have to be replaced every one or two years because of the intense sun. It's amazing how much he knows about things he's never even seen or researched *cough*. I also found out that there *are* a few vines that can withstand Colorado's sun, specifically grape vines. We aren't in a good position to build a pergola this year, but maybe next year ... Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > Britta, you just reminded me, were you the person who showed me those > sail-like deck coverings? I saw some at a hotel in Boulder this [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > amazing how much he knows about things he's never even seen or > researched *cough*. The sun is pretty intense in Australia too. I think they would definitely withstand the wind because the material they are made out of is like a thick netting. So the wind blows right through them but they create plenty of shade. > I also found out that there *are* a few vines that can withstand > Colorado's sun, specifically grape vines. We aren't in a good > position to build a pergola this year, but maybe next year ... Yeah, that gives you a lot of time to research what type of pergola you'd like and what's available and so on. SignatureBritta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album >> Britta, you just reminded me, were you the person who showed me >> those sail-like deck coverings? I saw some at a hotel in Boulder [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > of is like a thick netting. So the wind blows right through them > but they create plenty of shade. I found this: http://www.shadesails.com/helpfulhints.htm "Do not leave sails up in snow prone locations during winter months and unless your installation has been engineered for permanent use they should be taken down when windy conditions exist. " Hum. That sounds kind of iffy -- we definitely get snow and, if we have to take them down in the winter, isn't that by definition not permanent use? Interesitng that most of the "shade sail" links are from Australian sites. >> I also found out that there *are* a few vines that can withstand >> Colorado's sun, specifically grape vines. We aren't in a good >> position to build a pergola this year, but maybe next year ... > > Yeah, that gives you a lot of time to research what type of pergola > you'd like and what's available and so on. Yes. Especially with DH's tendency to shoot down any suggestions for change. I really don't know what that's about. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca >>> Britta, you just reminded me, were you the person who showed me >>> those sail-like deck coverings? I saw some at a hotel in Boulder [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Interesitng that most of the "shade sail" links are from Australian > sites. Well, taking them down in the winter would be a good idea. The snow would just pile up on them and weigh them down. Mind you, most of them are at quite steep angles so most snow should slide off, but you never know. I think the thing with the permanent installation is that you would have a very sturdy place that it attatches to, whether it be the side of your house or a pole in your yard. I think they are saying don't leave it up if you're just hooking it up to your fence or whatever. But if you put in a solid metal or concrete pole, which is sunk far enough into the ground with concrete, it will be a permanent installation. That would still allow you to remove it during the winter when it snows. You just climb up and unclip it. I think the shade sails are an Australian thing. I see them everywhere here. I think it's a pretty neat idea. >>> I also found out that there *are* a few vines that can withstand >>> Colorado's sun, specifically grape vines. We aren't in a good [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Yes. Especially with DH's tendency to shoot down any suggestions for > change. I really don't know what that's about. :-( I'm sorry, but that would really bug me. SignatureBritta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album > I think the shade sails are an Australian thing. I see them everywhere > here. I think it's a pretty neat idea. I really like them. I just don't know if they would look right in our neighborhood or if the HOA would approve (please no discussions about how everyone hates HOAs!). Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca >Britta, you just reminded me, were you the person who showed me those >sail-like deck coverings? I saw some at a hotel in Boulder this [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Colorado's sun, specifically grape vines. We aren't in a good >position to build a pergola this year, but maybe next year ... Do you mean these: http://www.shadesail.com.au/ ? They are pretty sturdy and can cope with most Australian conditions. I don't know anything about the intensity of sun in Colorado, but they have no problem with coping with the Australian sun and Australian summer temperatures (40+ celsius, err - well over 100F, in most places). They're fairly UV-resistant; they'd have to be to cope with Australian conditions (the ozone hole over southern Australian means a *lot* of UV gets through) As for wind - I guess their ability to withstand wind depends on how well they're anchored to existing structures. HTH Tish >> Do the double windows open and close? > Yes, of course. The double glass is just inside the frame, the frame > can open up in any way that you would open any other type window. Ah, OK. I can picture that now. I was envisioning something slightly different. Joyce > Do the double windows open and close? To bring this on-topic, let Miranda demonstrate double glazing for you: http://community.webshots.com/photo/353761746/1364516659058511339aecXVj http://community.webshots.com/photo/353761746/1364517020058511339txpPKN http://community.webshots.com/photo/353761746/1364517887058511339dTTOsI She is between the two glass panes of the open double-glazed window. You can't see it in the pictures, but the panes are connected by a sliding bolt in the lower right corner. It only opened so far, and if you wanted to open the window more, you had to unfasten the bolt. Double glazing is standard here in Finland, too. Only on the island do we not have double glazing, because the houses there are just for summer living. SignatureMarina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/ Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki >> Do the double windows open and close? > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > we not have double glazing, because the houses there are just for > summer living. Oh, that is definitely a very different approach to double glazing than I'm used to. What I know as double glazing has the 2 pieces of glass seperated by maybe 1 cm and framed in the same window frame. Very cute pics though! SignatureBritta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album > Oh, that is definitely a very different approach to double glazing than > I'm used to. What I know as double glazing has the 2 pieces of glass > seperated by maybe 1 cm and framed in the same window frame. Ah, I see. I don't know why, but this is the approach commonly used here. > Very cute pics though! I'm especially fond of the last one with her little toesies all splayed out. ;o) SignatureMarina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/ Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki >> Oh, that is definitely a very different approach to double glazing >> than I'm used to. What I know as double glazing has the 2 pieces of >> glass seperated by maybe 1 cm and framed in the same window frame. > > Ah, I see. I don't know why, but this is the approach commonly used > here. Maybe because the gap of air between the 2 panes is larger and gives even better insulaton? That would be my guess, since I'm sure it gets pretty darn cold in Finland. In Canada they are now going to triple glazing in some places, this is what my dad has his heart set on that we should get, in a climate where it never even gets below freezing! >> Very cute pics though! > > I'm especially fond of the last one with her little toesies all > splayed out. ;o) I absolutely agree :-) SignatureBritta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album > Maybe because the gap of air between the 2 panes is larger and gives > even better insulaton? That would be my guess, since I'm sure it gets > pretty darn cold in Finland. In Canada they are now going to triple > glazing in some places, this is what my dad has his heart set on that we > should get, in a climate where it never even gets below freezing! Triple glazing would be nice here. It is frigid here in the winter, and scorching hot in the summer. Winnie > Oh, that is definitely a very different approach to double glazing than > I'm used to. What I know as double glazing has the 2 pieces of glass > seperated by maybe 1 cm and framed in the same window frame. > Very cute pics though! > -- I also have double windows. But the space between the 2 glasses are so narrorw that not even a skinny cat Rusty can crawl in. The 2 pieces of glass can slide independtly of each other. One advantage of such windows is that I can open the windows in such a way to let in fresh air while Rusty can't have access to an opened window and risk falling down. I live on the upper floor of a highrise. Winnie >> Oh, that is definitely a very different approach to double glazing than >> I'm used to. What I know as double glazing has the 2 pieces of glass [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Winnie I had that type of window in my former house. We call those storm windows instead of double- or triple-glazed windows. In fact, some people have storm windows with the outer window double glazed. MaryL >>> Do the double windows open and close? >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > seperated by maybe 1 cm and framed in the same window frame. > Very cute pics though! Same here. I have double glazed windows throughout the main part of the house and triple glazed and tempered (for safety) in the sunroom. This means that each window is very heavy, but they look like standard windows and are not at all like the windows in Marina's pictures -- one more illustration that we often use a single term to mean entirely different things, depending on where we live. Incidentally, the sunroom windows were very pricey, and the sunroom is also well insulated. In addition, I added additional insulation over the original section of the house. It was well worth the money for the extra insulation and additional cost of triple glazing vs. standard windows. The sunroom added about 430 sq. ft., and 2 sides are glass from floor ceiling. It is also air conditioned and heated through my existing system. The point is, my utility usage *has not gone up* at all in the time since it was installed (spring 2005). I live in East Texas, so cooling capacity gets very well tested here since I keep it cool. (If interested, you can catch a few glimpses of the sunroom in some of Holly and Duffy's pictures.) MaryL Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< Duffy: http://tinyurl.com/cslwf Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e > Same here. I have double glazed windows throughout the main part of the > house and triple glazed and tempered (for safety) in the sunroom. This > means that each window is very heavy, but they look like standard windows > and are not at all like the windows in Marina's pictures -- one more > illustration that we often use a single term to mean entirely different > things, depending on where we live. Actually, I hardly ever speak English, let alone speak about windows in English. ;o) I mistook the term to also refer to the kind of double windows we have here. As a matter of fact, those windows that Miranda is posing between probably *are* double-glazed, though it doesn't really show in the pictures. I just remembered when I first posted those pictures, some people (and I think they were from the US) couldn't grasp what was in the picture, because they hadn't seen double windows before. SignatureMarina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/ Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki >> Do the double windows open and close? > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > we not have double glazing, because the houses there are just for summer > living. I think it's pretty standard, anywhere you get winters with temperatures consistently below freezing. In Minnesota, we called them "storme windows", because they are separate outer windows. Inside ou have sash windows, which may be opened at will. In addition you have "storm windows" in winter (glass, which can be partially opened outward with a kind of brace gadget) and screen windows in summer (to keep the insects out - sort of). The double glazing has the added advantage of conserving energy, since not as much heat leaks outside. (A real consideration, given the price of heating oil in areas where natural gas is not available for heating.) > > Do the double windows open and close? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > She is between the two glass panes of the open double-glazed window. <snip> She's adorable! Thanks for the pics. Best wishes, Polonca and Soncek > Well, this is another thing my dad is mad about. He says we need to > hire an architect to design the house for us. But that would cost [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > engineer and also the builder has input. This method is costing us > less than 1/4 of the cost of an architect. My parents have repeatedly adjusted existing plans and simply worked with a builder to get it done. It's always been fine for them. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca >>> Yes, we like to think we have it together too. I mean really. >>> People build houses all the time. I'm sure ours won't be perfect, [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > is a good thing. Expensive, yes. But definitely good. Triple glazing is > just an insane waste of money in this climate though. We had our windows replaced with double glazed a couple of years ago. Our climate isn't severe but it still makes the house much more comfortable. Most of the time you really aren't aware that there are two slightly separated panes of glass instead of one. And it helps in summer as well as winter. Cuts down on both heat gain and loss. Kind of like storm windows without the bulk and bother. And they open and close the same as single glazed. With no more than it cost to have all our windows replaced, I doubt it would add very much to construction costs. Jo >>>> Yes, we like to think we have it together too. I mean really. >>>> People build houses all the time. I'm sure ours won't be perfect, [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > With no more than it cost to have all our windows replaced, I doubt > it would add very much to construction costs. It will definitely add a lot to the cost here. Most window places we've checked with just don't even do it. But they will have to if it's going to be mandatory for all newly built houses within 6 months. We are definitely going to do it. But triple glazing is what my dad insists on and those would have be imported from Canada or something. Ridiculous. SignatureBritta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album >Wow, I've never even heard of double glazing. Mmmmmm... double glazing. >> Wow, I've never even heard of double glazing. > > Mmmmmm... double glazing. Hey, we're not talking donuts here, Homer ;-) SignatureBritta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album > (Storm windows are extra windows that mount on the outside of the window > and add extra insulation for cold weather. They're easily put on and taken > off, so they can be used seasonally, unlike what I imagine double glazing > to be, which would be permanent?) Double-glazing is the modern substitute for storm windows. Earlier versions had problems with the seal leaking and condensation forming between the layers, but that problem may have been solved. I wouldn't know; I live in a house with an intermediate form of windows - the aluminum storm windows that came after the wooden ones which were put up each fall and replaced each spring by screens, and the double and triple glazed types. SignatureCheryl > > > PS - what's triple glazing? > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Joyce We've always had double glazing in our windows, ever since my childhood home. Now, most houses have triple glazing, but I don't think there's any *gas* between the layers, just air, as one can separate the glass surfaces when washing the windows. SignatureChristine in Vantaa, Finland christal63 (at) gmail (dot) com photos: http://photos.yahoo.com/christal63 photos: http://community.webshots.com/user/chkr63 >> > > PS - what's triple glazing? >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > any *gas* between the layers, just air, as one can separate the glass > surfaces when washing the windows. A double (or triple) glazed window unit is two (or three) panes of glass, often treated on one side to cut down on UV penetration, separated by a narrow spacer and sealed together into one frame (sash). For better energy efficiency gas can be sealed between the panes of glass (usually argon, i think). The coatings they put on the glass help reduce fading of your furnishings too :) Double glazing (and even triple glazing) should be helpful in cold OR hot climates as they're designed to help keep the inside temperature stable with less energy wasted on heating/cooling. (keeping the inside air in and the outside air out) And if you were in Connecticut I could tell you a great place to buy them too ;) SignatureElise (supervised by Gossamer & Jeeves) pics: http://photos.yahoo.com/dragonandthistle@snet.net >>> > > PS - what's triple glazing? >>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > stable with less energy wasted on heating/cooling. (keeping the > inside air in and the outside air out) The gas is also used to prevent condensation to form between the 2 panes of glass. When you have 2 panes that are sealed together into a single frame, you don't want condensation to form, it looks bad and you can't see out properly. Double glazing also provides better soundproofing for your home. SignatureBritta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album >>>> > > PS - what's triple glazing? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > out properly. > Double glazing also provides better soundproofing for your home. We didn't get the ones with the gas, it was just too much more money for this climate. But after two winters, we only get a slight bit of condensation in the one over the kitchen sink. So that one must have a flaw in the seal. They would come and replace it, but I just don't want to deal with the mess. Jo > >>>> > > PS - what's triple glazing? > >>>> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Jo I don't think the double-pane with gas is worth the price difference either. Our builder used them. The seal doesn't last forever. After so many years, they got very cloudy on the south and west. It's not worth the $$$ to get them replaced or repaired. They're still functional, and don't leak air that I can tell at all. Sherry > We've always had double glazing in our windows, ever since my childhood > home. Now, most houses have triple glazing, but I don't think there's > any *gas* between the layers, just air, as one can separate the glass > surfaces when washing the windows. Most houses have triple glazing here? Oops, I didn't know that. ;o) I probably have triple glazing, since this is a fairly new building. <takes closer look at window> Yes, I see. I think there are two panes of glass in the inner window. SignatureMarina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/ Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki > Let me just say here that my parents have built a couple of houses and > they were way overbuilt and never fetched anything close to the price [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > I have decided not to write them any further emails at this point and to > just wait and see what happens. Eek. You know, my parents are starting to sound downright wonderful =) Sorry to hear about this. What a pain. My parents (mostly my mom, actually) like to offer unsolicited advice and act hurt when I don't take it, but they've never exacted retribution like that! Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca <snip> > I have not heard from them in over a week. I think I may be > disinherited again. <sigh> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I have decided not to write them any further emails at this point and to > just wait and see what happens. What a bummer! But maybe it's just as well that you stay out of each others' hair for a while. I must have led a very charmed life, because I can't imagine my parents or other family members acting like that at all. The only incident that comes even close was when I announced to my family that I was going to apply to university at the age of 29. My eldest sister didn't seem thrilled, but all she said was, 'what are you going to live on?' Mum and my other sister were very supportive, and my eldest sis came around eventually, when she saw I was doing well (I got a form of disability rehabilitation grant). SignatureMarina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/ Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki > In response to this non-advice asking, purely informative email that I > sent, I received a list of 10 things that our house must have from my [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > He also offered to send me this book with plans of mountain chalets in > the Alps. Could he possibly be confusing "Australia" with "Austria"? ;-) >> In response to this non-advice asking, purely informative email that >> I sent, I received a list of 10 things that our house must have from [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Could he possibly be confusing "Australia" with "Austria"? ;-) I highly doubt that because he is originally *from* Austria. I think he would realize if I was living in his homeland. However, I think he is confused about some things. He told me to make sure we have plenty of big windows facing south to get lots of solar heating from the sun. Uhhhh...dad...the sun shines from the north in the southern hemisphere! SignatureBritta Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness overflow. Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album >>> In response to this non-advice asking, purely informative email that >>> I sent, I received a list of 10 things that our house must have from [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > heating from the sun. Uhhhh...dad...the sun shines from the north in the > southern hemisphere! That sounds like my brother in law. He lived in Portland Oregon when we were in Washington DC, and he would make it a point to wait until very late in the evening his time to call us "because of the three hour time difference". So he would wake us up at 1 or 2 AM. Jo > That sounds like my brother in law. He lived in Portland Oregon when we > were in Washington DC, and he would make it a point to wait until very late > in the evening his time to call us "because of the three hour time > difference". So he would wake us up at 1 or 2 AM. I have to confess I've done that. Now I try to check the time difference before calling to make sure it goes in the direction I think it does. SignatureCheryl >>That sounds like my brother in law. He lived in Portland Oregon when we >>were in Washington DC, and he would make it a point to wait until very late [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > difference before calling to make sure it goes in the direction I think > it does. The one that confuses me is the time difference between California and Arizona! (It's an hour in the winter, but the same in summer - Arizona does not observe Daylight Savings time, California does.) I had a friend who moved from California to Prescott AZ. Fortunately she was a real night owl, because I'd call her at ten P. M. our time, never realizing that for half the year it was eleven P. M. there. (She had moved there in the summertime, and never TOLD me Arizona was not in the Pacific time-zone!) > In response to this non-advice asking, purely informative email that I > sent, I received a list of 10 things that our house must have from my dad. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > too stubborn to listen to his voice of experience. His last words were > "good luck- you'll need it!!!" I've learned to answer Rob's parents (after messing up with my own family) by saying "Thanks, I'll tell Rob and we'll include it in the options we're looking at." We've received it about most of our choices in life. Rob's dad was retired military, and couldn't understand that some things changed in the Army after he got out. Sigh. We are very careful not to tell them about some of the events, choices, and problems we deal with on a regular basis. Good luck with the parents. They aren't going to change, so you'll have to, or be miserable. Personally, I rely on Rob, my friends, and the kids for most of my emotional support. I love them very much, but we have very different lives and standards. Pam S. (snippage) > Good luck with the parents. They aren't going to change, so you'll have to, > or be miserable. Personally, I rely on Rob, my friends, and the kids for > most of my emotional support. I love them very much, but we have very > different lives and standards. > > Pam S. Pam, I can completely relate. My family and I are on two completely different paths. We haven't spoken in years and NOW (just now) they're coming out of the woodwork with advice and plans and all this crap regarding how concerned they are for me. Thing is, they have *no* idea what my life is like. I haven't been in contact with them in at least 15 years! I rely on my MIL and my husband. The rest of my family (except my aunt whom I absolutely adore!) can kiss my *ss. kili >> Doesn't sound like she appreciates any of the constructive ideas any >> of you offered...Maybe, like in another thread, she didn't really [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > There's also a difference between not appreciating, and not being > feasible. Thank you, Fil! Jill > I couldn't do a cleaning job either. I'm still struggling to lift > five pounds with my left arm. So, if that was suggested for me, I'd > appreciate the suggestion, but it wouldn't work. > > --Fil > No sewing machine. I had one once but hadn't used it in years. When my > brother Scott and his now ex-wife moved into their new house, they decided [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > either. When I finally told him after their divorce what she'd done he was > appalled. Wish I'd approached him sooner; I could have used the money. How different from my niece! She and her sister were supposedly doing a garage sale at my brother's place. The sister decided she had something better to do, so left it to Dawn to man the sale all by herself for both days of it. Nevertheless, Dawn carefully kept track of the items, and made sure my other niece got every penny received for the stuff she had contributed. |
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