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Monique Y. Mudama - 06 Jul 2006 03:07 GMT

I just finished that Covey 7 Habits book. I think you said you
weren't too impressed by it. Could you explain? I'm in the "now that
I've read the book, I need to digest it and evaluate it" stage.

I felt there was an over emphasis on religion as a source of everything
positive, and he seems to have missed that pleasure doesn't have to be a
destructive force, but I also thought there was a lot of solid advice
that will help me if I can integrate it into my life. I particularly
like the idea of a personal mission statement. A lot of his advice
seems to mesh well with other advice I've read or been given by people I
respect.

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Takayuki - 06 Jul 2006 03:41 GMT

>I just finished that Covey 7 Habits book. I think you said you
>weren't too impressed by it. Could you explain? I'm in the "now that
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>seems to mesh well with other advice I've read or been given by people I
>respect.

Well, what happened was a friend insisted that I borrow the book on
CD, and I just listened to the first one. But I found that I couldn't
relate to the author, because we seem to have opposite personalities.
Covey's anecdotes were often in the format of, "I said this to
[wife|son|subway passenger], and then I realized that I shouldn't have
said that..." If it were me, you see, I wouldn't have even spoken up
in the first place.

So whether accurate or not, the impression I formed of him personally
was unfavorable. A person who needed to make up some virtuous habits
in order to fix problems of his own making due to his busybody nature.

That poor first impression ruined the rest of it, since in order to
benefit from a self-help book, you need to trust the author, or at
least be able to relate at some level.

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Monique Y. Mudama - 06 Jul 2006 04:39 GMT

> Well, what happened was a friend insisted that I borrow the book on
> CD, and I just listened to the first one. But I found that I
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> shouldn't have said that..." If it were me, you see, I wouldn't
> have even spoken up in the first place.

You know, I was thinking about how I would love to make DH read the
book -- funny because it's actually his book, but he only ever glanced
at it. But then I realized that unless he himself was curious about
it, trying to insist that he read it could only backfire. Especially
as he obviously already had opportunity -- he bought the book based on
advice from his manager when he started taking manager type
responsibilities.

I could definitely relate to the examples he gave. I could imagine
saying something, or more likely glaring, at someone letting their
kids run all around the subway.

Ironically, at least in the edition I read, there's a FAQ in the back,
and one is "so and so would really benefit from reading this book!
What should I do to make them read it?" The answer is something to
the effect of, don't. Become closer to that person, try to open up to
them and allow them to open up to you, and maybe they will ask about
it themselves.

Which makes sense. I want advice on how to live better from people
who I admire and whose habits I admire, not necessarily a
recommendation from a friend who has read the book but whose life has
not apparently changed from it.

> So whether accurate or not, the impression I formed of him
> personally was unfavorable. A person who needed to make up some
> virtuous habits in order to fix problems of his own making due to
> his busybody nature.
>:)

Well, that's certainly one way to look at it. Another is that you
already have the virtuous habits. Or that you wouldn't say anything,
but not necessarily for virtuous reasons. I think in the end, a
person embodying Covey's habits (something which he himself admits he
can't do consistently) would not even call someone a busybody, but
rather accept or try to understand that person more fully. The next
step, presumably, is to die and be sainted, or perhaps to ascend to
Nirvana *wry grin*.

Ultimately the Seven habits seem, to me, to boil down to Kant's "treat
people as ends, not means." But with some handy step by step
instructions.

> That poor first impression ruined the rest of it, since in order to
> benefit from a self-help book, you need to trust the author, or at
> least be able to relate at some level.

Absolutely. And it may very well be that your personal journey won't
benefit from that book, whereas your friend found some profound
insight for him/herself.

Out of curiosity, since the tone of the book grated on you so much,
did it affect your view of your friend?

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Takayuki - 07 Jul 2006 03:26 GMT

>> That poor first impression ruined the rest of it, since in order to
>> benefit from a self-help book, you need to trust the author, or at
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Out of curiosity, since the tone of the book grated on you so much,
>did it affect your view of your friend?

No, it didn't affect my views. I just admired that she was working to
improve herself in various ways, and I just thought that it wasn't me.
Ketchup doesn't taste good on everything.

My feelings towards Covey was not grating, precisely, but more like
inadvertent humor. To me, the experiences he related were tragicomic,
and it made me think of him as a Gilligan or Jack Tripper instead of
someone who was trying to advise me, which was probably not the effect
he was after. :)

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Monique Y. Mudama - 07 Jul 2006 04:44 GMT

>>Out of curiosity, since the tone of the book grated on you so much,
>>did it affect your view of your friend?
>
> No, it didn't affect my views. I just admired that she was working
> to improve herself in various ways, and I just thought that it
> wasn't me. Ketchup doesn't taste good on everything.

So true.

> My feelings towards Covey was not grating, precisely, but more like
> inadvertent humor. To me, the experiences he related were
> tragicomic, and it made me think of him as a Gilligan or Jack
> Tripper instead of someone who was trying to advise me, which was
> probably not the effect he was after. :)

Hehe. Yeah, probably not, although ... I think most of human
experience is tragicomic.

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Kreisleriana - 06 Jul 2006 19:12 GMT

>>I just finished that Covey 7 Habits book. I think you said you
>>weren't too impressed by it. Could you explain? I'm in the "now that
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>benefit from a self-help book, you need to trust the author, or at
>least be able to relate at some level.

I have a problem across the board with self-help books, because all
the authors and all the books are in effect telling you "This is what
you should do," and I can't stand anyone telling me that. ;)

Theresa
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Make Levees, Not War

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Micha - 07 Jul 2006 07:17 GMT

[... self-help books issue ...]

> I have a problem across the board with self-help books, because all
> the authors and all the books are in effect telling you "This is what
> you should do," and I can't stand anyone telling me that. ;)

Well, most of those books *really* tell "I have done it that way and
it had worked out for me". If you read several of them concerning the
same topic, you may find at least as many opinions as authors and some
opinions may be totally adversatively. So you usually cannot transfer
them 1:1 to your own situation.

You may read several, get the main ideas behind the resolution
described and use those ideas as steppingstones for your own personal
solution.

Squarely Yours
Michael

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Monique Y. Mudama - 07 Jul 2006 07:49 GMT

> [... self-help books issue ...]
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> described and use those ideas as steppingstones for your own
> personal solution.

I agree with the last part. I couldn't read a book and say, "Yes, I
am going to do exactly what s/he describes to the Nth degree and be
happy." But I do get a couple of good ideas. I figure any book that
gives me even one new and useful idea has been helpful.

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Christina Websell - 07 Jul 2006 17:52 GMT

>>>I just finished that Covey 7 Habits book. I think you said you
>>>weren't too impressed by it. Could you explain? I'm in the "now that
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> the authors and all the books are in effect telling you "This is what
> you should do," and I can't stand anyone telling me that. ;)

<BG> I have the same problem. It all depends for me on how the advice
comes over, whether from a book or from a person. If it's "forget all you
ever heard and do *this* " or "you did WHAT? <snigger> do this instead"
they have lost me immediately.
OTOH I am willing to learn from someone who has experience that worked in
any problem I have that I feel unable to cope with without seeking
assistance and advice. I can cope with most difficulties but in the last
few years sudden bereavement, bullying at work and a cancer diagnosis had me
seeking assistance.
My employer provided my wonderful counsellor, Simon. I found out recently
that he has a private practice too at 40 GBP/hour. Blimey, I would be
bankrupt by now if I'd had to pay him myself, but he is worth every penny
anyway. I still see him once a month. It's the least my employers can do
after letting my (then) manager bully me into clinical depression without
acting when I alerted them to it previously.
I could probably have a case for compensation and they know that very well.
However, I am not managed by that person now, when I saw Occupational Health
(far from supporting my employers they were told in no uncertain terms to
sort out and eliminate bullying immediately, and recommendations about
special equipment for me after my eye ops, which has helped such a lot. )
I am so happy with my new manager and she is happy with me. She regards me
very positively. There is so much difference between being regarded
positively and negatively at work.
Scenario 1:
My phone rings and I am not there.
Old manager: Will suspect I am somewhere else in the building, talking and
makes her displeasure clear. I am not.
New manager: Thinks I have probably gone down the corridor to get a file,
or answering a call of nature and takes a message.

This has drifted OT, but it's for Catnipped and any other people who are
having difficulties at work. I let my need to earn a wage for myself
(no-one else to help me now) make me scared to challenge my "manager" she
didn't deserve the word, so I suffered for years in silence.
It is now all sorted. She has no power over me whatsover any more and I
wouldn't like to have her karma!
If you are very unhappy at work (not just a temporary upset) and you cannot
get it sorted out, get another job as soon as you can. It just isn't worth
it.

Tweed

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