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Oscar's at the emergency clinic overnight

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Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 07:19 GMT
Short version:

Oscar needs to get an abscess (sp?) removed/cleaned, so she will be
staying overnight at the emergency clinic.  I am freaking out a bit,
but also extremely tired (and about freaking well finished with
stressful events in my life, thank you very much!).

Long version:

As some of you may have read, I brought Oscar to her vet's this
morning.  The vet and I put her in an E collar, and I got liquid
antibiotics to give Oscar twice a day.  The vet said, if the E collar
didn't work out, we could try a baby sock taped to the leg, but we
really wanted the E collar to work because it allows the paw plenty of
air flow and kept her from licking *any* of her paws.

I got home planning to somehow find a way to give Oscar her meds, but
when I came home she was in silent hiding, and she hadn't touched
*any* of the treats all over the house, let alone her food.  Finally I
found her hiding in the back of the elevated dirt area in the
basement.  I carried her out -- she was purring and trying to rub her
face on me, but she couldn't because of the collar -- and brought her
upstairs.  As soon as I set her down, she started backing up and did
so until she hit a wall, then got "stuck" there.

As I called DH and his aunt (a medical professional, human variety) for
advice, I heard some loud noises.  Oscar went missing again.  I think I
once again had the chance to intimately explore the basement.  We have
shops close by, so I was able to get tiny baby socks and some vet wrap
(the stuff that sticks to itself but not other stuff).

Came home and searched for Oscar everywhere.  Not in the basement, not
in the bedroom.  Finally found her under the futon in the guest room.
I guess she backed under it, then couldn't get out because of the
stupid collar.  I felt like such a traitor as she purred and slobbered
in thanks for being rescued.  Straight into the bathroom, where I had
stashed the new stuff and the medicine.

I couldn't get the medicine into her mouth with the collar on, so in a
gesture of trust, I removed the collar.  She put up a minor commotion
over the medicine, but I actually think most of the dropperfull got
into her mouth.

Next step, baby sock.  She was so hungry that I managed to slip the
sock onto her paw a few times as she ate, but she would freak out when
I started trying to put the tape on, and the sock instantly came off.
I asked my neighbor to help, but that just seemed to make everything
worse.  I had a hisspitting, bucking, clawing, biting fiasco on my
hands.  Every attempt, though, the second I put her down, she purred
and rubbed on me and told me how much she needed my comfort.  I felt
evil.  I wished I were a smoker so I could have a smoke to take the
edge off.

Decided to go to an emergency clinic to ask for help bandaging the paw
and maybe a sedative.  The closest one also had the shortest
anticipated wait, so there we went.  Unlike our regular vet, no humans
go back with the patients.  They refer to pets as "kids" and owners as
"parents", a touch I appreciated.  Also had coffee, tea, and snacks.
I went with the camomile tea, hoping it would calm me down.

I fully anticipated some kind of help getting the paw wrapped and
getting out of there, so I kind of went into shock when the vet tech,
Katie, came out to let me know that there was an abscess (however
that's spelled) and Oscar would need to get surgery to have it
drained.  I waved away any discussion of price, just wanted to
understand the risks.  I elected to get her blood checked first to
make sure she doesn't have any conditions that would keep her from
waking up after the anesthesia.

So.  Oscar is there now.  It's midnight.  There was another surgery
case there, so the estimate is that she will be done around 4am.
Because of the delay, they'll keep her till the morning with no
hospitalization charge.  They won't call me unless something goes
wrong, so in theory I can sleep (hah).

They let me say good night to her, and also let me drive home for an
ancient (like, from when she was 6 months old) catnip pillow and a
sock for licking.  I wasn't able to give them to her myself because
another surgery was being prepped when I got back.  I'm hoping she'll
be tempted to lick the sock instead of her paw.

I'm strongly considering keeping Oscar there for a few days.  They
mentioned needing to give her two other medicines (in addition to the
antibiotic?  Not sure).  I figure that she will stay cleaner, have
people to watch her better (tomorrow's a holiday, but I have to work the
rest of the week), and won't be able to get into trouble.  Not to
mention that maybe they will cause her less trauma than I would, trying
to handle the paw or feed her the meds.  And presumably she won't
require the e collar.  That would be about $120 a day.  With the
kitty-morphine they gave her (B-something, can't remember the name), she
was calm enough to even luv up on the vet techs.  

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

badwilson - 04 Jul 2006 07:46 GMT
I'm so sorry to hear about your and Oscar's ordeal.  So was she licking
her paw then because she had somehow injured it?  And the first vet
didn't notice?  That seems odd.  It must be a pretty bad abscess if she
has to get surgery for it.  Vino's abscess seems very minor in
comparison.  Many purrs for everything to go well and for Oscar's quick
recovery.
Signature

Britta
Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness
overflow.
Check out pictures of Vino at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

> Short version:
>
[quoted text clipped - 87 lines]
> kitty-morphine they gave her (B-something, can't remember the name),
> she was calm enough to even luv up on the vet techs.
Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 08:03 GMT
> I'm so sorry to hear about your and Oscar's ordeal.  So was she
> licking her paw then because she had somehow injured it?  And the
> first vet didn't notice?  That seems odd.  It must be a pretty bad
> abscess if she has to get surgery for it.  Vino's abscess seems very
> minor in comparison.  Many purrs for everything to go well and for
> Oscar's quick recovery.

To be honest, I don't totally understand the reasoning behind
everything.  I think these things can get bad in a hurry.  This
morning Oscar definitely did not have a fever.  It's possible the paw
was much worse by this evening, especially with me freaking Oscar out
trying to get the stupid sock on.

And come to think of it, maybe I didn't understand entirely.  I think
they're just going to drain and disinfect the wound, but they
definitely are putting her out for the duration.  Maybe because she's
a known trouble maker and they need her to be really still.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 08:12 GMT
> To be honest, I don't totally understand the reasoning behind
> everything.  I think these things can get bad in a hurry.  This
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> definitely are putting her out for the duration.  Maybe because
> she's a known trouble maker and they need her to be really still.

I found some links suggesting that an abscess discovered early can be
treated just by cleaning, but larger ones need to have the stuff
inside cleaned out via surgery.

Here's a great link that unfortunately doesn't exist anymore, but
google kept it:

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:QDNLZTFDLaYJ:www.felineconservation.org/R3/H
usbandry/CatCare/Med/Abcesses.html+feline+abscess+treatment&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&
cd=3&client=firefox-a


Here's a less detailed link that says more or less the same thing:

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_bite_wound_abscess.html

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Jo Firey - 04 Jul 2006 18:07 GMT
>> To be honest, I don't totally understand the reasoning behind
>> everything.  I think these things can get bad in a hurry.  This
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> treated just by cleaning, but larger ones need to have the stuff
> inside cleaned out via surgery.

It depends on how deep the wound is and where it is.  I could treat about
2/3 of Jake's myself, the vet did the rest.  And a degree of sedation is
easier on the cat normally rather than having to fight them.  I agree with
you that after checking on her, I might be inclined to leave her for a few
days.  Especially since she is determined to fight you.  Though $120 a day
seems pretty high for aftercare.

Purrs of course on the way.  For the both of you.
Jo
Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 18:52 GMT
> It depends on how deep the wound is and where it is.  I could treat
> about 2/3 of Jake's myself, the vet did the rest.  And a degree of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> determined to fight you.  Though $120 a day seems pretty high for
> aftercare.

Revised estimate, more like $220.  It's because it's an emergency
clinic, and I suspect the cost is partly prohibitive to make sure that
they have enough facilities for the urgent emergency cases as they
come in.  But because it's an emergency clinic, staff is on hand all
night, at least until Weds morning.

The vet agreed with me that getting Oscar started on the ointment and
the antibiotic, and keeping her confined, is probably a good thing for
her healing, so I've decided to keep her there till Weds morning.
Then stay with her at home Weds.  I may try to find out if I can leave
her at my regular vet's during the day for supervision.

> Purrs of course on the way.  For the both of you.  Jo

Thank you.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Cheryl - 04 Jul 2006 21:08 GMT
> Revised estimate, more like $220.  It's because it's an
> emergency clinic, and I suspect the cost is partly prohibitive
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> may try to find out if I can leave her at my regular vet's
> during the day for supervision.

I was just getting caught up on your stressful night and Oscar's
worsening condition. Wow, I'm glad it isn't as bad as it must have
felt. I can understand - you're home alone with a cat you can't
medicate and who is freaked out. :(  When Scarlett had to wear an
e-collar after her spay surgery complications, she stayed in a
large dog cage (left over from Bonnie's socialization) so she
wouldn't hurt herself when I was at work. She had a drain tube
sticking out of her belly and the collar was to keep her from
pulling it out.

Something you wrote reminded me of something our TED said just the
other day when I had Rhett there for his infected itchy - she said
whenever you put something like an ointment on a cat they want
nothing more than to get it off of them. Instinct because they're
clean animals. I wonder if the ointment on her paw is really
necessary?  You said it's a steroid - what about asking your
regular TED about injectable? It might lessen her stress to not
have something on her foot that she just can't clean off of
herself.  Just something to think about.  

Anyway, when she's healed and you're "repairing" your relationship
with her, I doubt that will be necessary. I think that they know
you're trying to make them feel better and it actually builds
trust. I know just having to pill Rhett right now is getting easier
by the day. He only has 2 more days.  :)  So weird picking up such
a big cat and trying to snuggle him in my arms after he gets
pilled.  I actually think he's starting to enjoy it. He doesn't
struggle anymore.  :)
Signature

Cheryl

Monique Y. Mudama - 05 Jul 2006 00:30 GMT
> I was just getting caught up on your stressful night and Oscar's
> worsening condition. Wow, I'm glad it isn't as bad as it must have
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> hurt herself when I was at work. She had a drain tube sticking out
> of her belly and the collar was to keep her from pulling it out.

Looks like we are going to try the same approach.  She won't have a
drain tube, so at least that will be easier.

> Something you wrote reminded me of something our TED said just the
> other day when I had Rhett there for his infected itchy - she said
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> something on her foot that she just can't clean off of herself.
> Just something to think about.  

Hrm, good question.  I doubt they'll want to switch approaches mid
stream.  But they've said that she has been remarkably good today, not
even trying to lick at her paw.  Maybe she doesn't like the taste?

> Anyway, when she's healed and you're "repairing" your relationship
> with her, I doubt that will be necessary. I think that they know
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> actually think he's starting to enjoy it. He doesn't struggle
> anymore.  :)

I'm not convinced she buys the "I'm doing this for your own good"
line.  A variety of experiences make me think that she will become
more and more fractious with each attempt at medication.  Ah well.
Has to be done.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Tish Silberbauer - 04 Jul 2006 23:24 GMT
>The vet agreed with me that getting Oscar started on the ointment and
>the antibiotic, and keeping her confined, is probably a good thing for
>her healing, so I've decided to keep her there till Weds morning.
>Then stay with her at home Weds.  I may try to find out if I can leave
>her at my regular vet's during the day for supervision.

Could you perhaps borrow a crate from the vet to keep her in overnight
at your house so that she is in a familiar environment with familiar
people, but still confined enough to avoid aggravating the injury.  We
have a large dog crate here that has been valuable for that kind of
thing in the past.  The animals aren't thrilled about being confined,
but are happier to be at home than at the vet clinic.

Tish
Helen Wheels - 04 Jul 2006 08:24 GMT
>>I'm so sorry to hear about your and Oscar's ordeal.  So was she
>>licking her paw then because she had somehow injured it?  And the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> was much worse by this evening, especially with me freaking Oscar out
> trying to get the stupid sock on.

I don't think you ought to blame yourself - abscesses can be well hidden
and they can indeed turn nasty quickly whatever you do. OK, maybe the
first vet shouldn't have missed it, but as we all know, our furry owners
can be very good at hiding anything physically wrong. You certainly did
the right thing by Oscar.

> And come to think of it, maybe I didn't understand entirely.  I think
> they're just going to drain and disinfect the wound, but they
> definitely are putting her out for the duration.  Maybe because she's
> a known trouble maker and they need her to be really still.

Doesn't sound unusual to me. It's been a while since one of my guys had
one of these injuries, touch wood, but in my experience the vet always
cleaned, drained and stitched the wound under general anaesthetic.

Purrs for Oscar to be feeling better soon. And for you to get some
decent rest.
Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 15:48 GMT
> I don't think you ought to blame yourself - abscesses can be well
> hidden and they can indeed turn nasty quickly whatever you do. OK,
> maybe the first vet shouldn't have missed it, but as we all know,
> our furry owners can be very good at hiding anything physically
> wrong. You certainly did the right thing by Oscar.

No worries -- I wasn't blaming myself for the abscess, which it turns
out didn't exist after all.  There was a funky smell -- my regular vet
and I discussed it and thought it might be expressed anal glands --
and I guess that along with other factors made him think the paw was
worse than it actually was.  But he pricked it and there was no pus
whatsoever.

The fiberglass that may have caused this irritation, which could very
well have come from the basement -- that I blame myself for.

> Purrs for Oscar to be feeling better soon. And for you to get some
> decent rest.

Thank you.  I've just emailed my team letting them know I plan to stay
home and watch Oscar Weds.  I just don't feel comfortable at this
point leaving her home alone without a chance to observe her.

God I wish DH were back.  He offered to come home ... but I don't want
to do that to him.  He's visiting his family, and his aunt flew there
to spend time with everyone.  Still ... I don't know.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) - 04 Jul 2006 17:23 GMT
> I'm so sorry to hear about your and Oscar's ordeal.  So was she licking
> her paw then because she had somehow injured it?  And the first vet
> didn't notice?  That seems odd.  It must be a pretty bad abscess if she
> has to get surgery for it.  Vino's abscess seems very minor in
> comparison.  Many purrs for everything to go well and for Oscar's quick
> recovery.

Actually, I was surprised that your vet did not treat Vino's
abscess the same way!  Since cats tend to play rough with
one another, mine have had their share of abscesses from
"friendly fire" (so to speak).  I have never encountered a
vet who did NOT anesthetize the cat, drain and stitch the
wound, and send him/her home with anti-biotics (but no
further treatment required by me).
Jo Firey - 04 Jul 2006 19:53 GMT
>> I'm so sorry to hear about your and Oscar's ordeal.  So was she licking
>> her paw then because she had somehow injured it?  And the first vet
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> wound, and send him/her home with anti-biotics (but no further treatment
> required by me).

My family never shows any signs of distress until after 6pm on Friday,
preferable on a holiday weekend.  So by default and by shear numbers (Sam
was a bully) I had to learn to treat some abscesses myself.  I've also tried
to learn to check my cats over for any signs of bumps when I pet them
Though anymore its more likely for my daughter to pick up on it and leave me
a note.

Now all my cats have been pretty easy to treat.  And daughter can scruff one
for me if need be.

Jo
Takayuki - 04 Jul 2006 08:26 GMT
>I'm strongly considering keeping Oscar there for a few days.  They
>mentioned needing to give her two other medicines (in addition to the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>kitty-morphine they gave her (B-something, can't remember the name), she
>was calm enough to even luv up on the vet techs.  

Awww, poor Oscar.  She really loves her meowmie!  I read your post
about Oscar having an itchy paw, and it didn't sound like an
emergency.  Amazing the things they can hide from us!  Sending purrs
for her.
Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 13:00 GMT
> Awww, poor Oscar.  She really loves her meowmie!  I read your post
> about Oscar having an itchy paw, and it didn't sound like an
> emergency.  Amazing the things they can hide from us!  Sending purrs
> for her.

It got bad fast.  Friday evening she was licking her paw, but the paw
itself didn't look too bad.  I decided to wait through the weekend so
she could see her regular vet (heh, clearly the fates had other
plans), but it was definitely looking worse over that time, and I kept
reconsidering my decision, but it didn't *seem* bad enough that I
would want to traumatize her by taking her to an emergency clinic
where she'd have to sit around in her carrier for hours.

By last night, having her sit around in her carrier seemed a lot less
traumatic than any other options.  But still I just thought I needed
some help getting the sock on and taped up.  I didn't think she'd need
surgery.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Joy - 04 Jul 2006 09:13 GMT
Purrs and hugs for both you and Oscar.  I hope somehow you can get some
sleep.

Joy

> Short version:
>
[quoted text clipped - 87 lines]
> kitty-morphine they gave her (B-something, can't remember the name), she
> was calm enough to even luv up on the vet techs.
Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 12:57 GMT
> Purrs and hugs for both you and Oscar.  I hope somehow you can get
> some sleep.

I think I finally got to bed around one.  It's 5:50 and I'm awake, but
extremely bleary-eyed.  I think I'm going to go back to bed for a few
minutes before going there.  I want to be awake enough to make a good
decision about taking her home vs. leaving her there.

And of course my belly, which has been wonderful, is feeling ... not
too great.  Argh!

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monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Lisa Katt - 04 Jul 2006 10:13 GMT
Monique Y. Mudama skrev i meddelandet ...
>Short version:
>
>Oscar needs to get an abscess (sp?) removed/cleaned, so she will be
>staying overnight at the emergency clinic.  I am freaking out a bit,
>but also extremely tired (and about freaking well finished with
>stressful events in my life, thank you very much!).
<snip>

Poor Oscar and poor you. Purrs and hugs!
Elisabet
Adrian A - 04 Jul 2006 12:13 GMT
> Short version:
>
> Oscar needs to get an abscess (sp?) removed/cleaned, so she will be
> staying overnight at the emergency clinic.  I am freaking out a bit,
> but also extremely tired (and about freaking well finished with
> stressful events in my life, thank you very much!).

<snip Long version:>

Poor Oscar :-( hopefully she'll feel a lot better once the abscess is
drained. Lots of purrs for her and you.
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Adrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera)
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Winnie - 04 Jul 2006 13:39 GMT
> Short version:
>
> Oscar needs to get an abscess (sp?) removed/cleaned, so she will be
> staying overnight at the emergency clinic.  I am freaking out a bit,
> but also extremely tired (and about freaking well finished with
> stressful events in my life, thank you very much!).

So sorry to hear that. I know it is difficult, but please try to relax
a bit and get some rest, espeically since today is a holiday. Sounded
like you didn't get much sleep. Please watch
out you don't get stressed out that you get a tummy flareup.
Oscar is in good hands now. When Rusty was in the emergency clinic for
a weekend
because of a urinary blockage, the vet called to update me.

Purrs for both of you.

Winnie
Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 15:55 GMT
> So sorry to hear that. I know it is difficult, but please try to
> relax a bit and get some rest, espeically since today is a holiday.
> Sounded like you didn't get much sleep. Please watch out you don't
> get stressed out that you get a tummy flareup.  Oscar is in good
> hands now. When Rusty was in the emergency clinic for a weekend
> because of a urinary blockage, the vet called to update me.

I really like this emergency vet.  He seems very good.

What a rough job.  When I came in this morning, a couple had brought
their dog, who apparently was trampled by a deer in their yard (they
live in the foothills).  There wasn't much they could do but give him
the final gift of release.  It puts things in perspective for me.  I
know Oscar will be okay; I just need to take good care of this paw,
and somehow get the antibiotics in her and some kind of cream on her
pad twice a day.  Steroid I think he said.  They will get her started
today, so by tomorrow morning hopefully she will be somewhat used to
it.  The vet said they will train me in cat-wrestling before I leave.
He agreed that liquid form would probably work better than a pill
popper -- at least some will get in.

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monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

CatNipped - 04 Jul 2006 16:01 GMT
>> So sorry to hear that. I know it is difficult, but please try to
>> relax a bit and get some rest, espeically since today is a holiday.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> He agreed that liquid form would probably work better than a pill
> popper -- at least some will get in.

Jessie is the hardest of my four to give medicine to, but I always choose
liquid for her because I found the trick to it.  Always put the medicine in
the cheek on the outside of the teeth (towards the back of her mouth in the
cheek pouch.  This way it doesn't gag them and it seems to slip down their
throat before they are able to spit it out.

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Hugs,

CatNipped

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Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 16:17 GMT
> Jessie is the hardest of my four to give medicine to, but I always
> choose liquid for her because I found the trick to it.  Always put
> the medicine in the cheek on the outside of the teeth (towards the
> back of her mouth in the cheek pouch.  This way it doesn't gag them
> and it seems to slip down their throat before they are able to spit
> it out.

I was able to hold Oscar's head well enough to get it in her jaw
without the e collar on ... with the collar I think it will be a lot
tougher.  I won't have the leverage, and I'll be more worried about
hurting her.

I don't know how you managed the cheek pouch thing ... but maybe it's
worth a try.  It seems like I can't get anything in her lips, and I
just kind of end up forcing her jaws open with the syringe.

Ugh.  That sounds so awful.  I'm torturing my cat.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Winnie - 04 Jul 2006 18:43 GMT
> I really like this emergency vet.  He seems very good.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> --
> monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

I have given Rusty liquid antibiotics and pills with a pill popper. The
liquid is much easeir.
I couldn't find  a popper in town, and eventually bought one when I was
in California. It
is too long and hard to use. I've since have more success pilling Rusty
with a timble like
cat toothbrush on my finger to protect it. At first I was able to fool
Rusty into thinking its
just tooth brushing. He doesn not like it but will tolerate it. But he
got smart soon to know
a pill came with the tooth brush. Mixing the pill with his food didn't
work. I haven't tried mixing
it with his treats.

Purrs continuing going your way. Make sure you get enough sleep. You
need lots of energy
dealing with Oscar's problem.

Winnie

> pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 19:01 GMT
> I have given Rusty liquid antibiotics and pills with a pill popper.
> The liquid is much easeir.  I couldn't find  a popper in town, and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> know a pill came with the tooth brush. Mixing the pill with his food
> didn't work. I haven't tried mixing it with his treats.

Oscar takes the time to inspect even food that she knows she likes.  I
can't imagine trying to mix pills in food.

> Purrs continuing going your way. Make sure you get enough sleep. You
> need lots of energy dealing with Oscar's problem.

I did get to sleep after I came home from the vet's (about 8:30 this
morning) and slept until I got a phone call from DH around 11, I
guess.  I feel much better now, although that may be because I bawled
to DH about how it's all my fault.  He was not at all appreciative or
supportive of that, but it felt good to cry.  I've been on the verge
of crying for a while now, but didn't want to do it while I was
driving back and forth (four trips just to the emergency clinic so
far, first to bring Oscar, second to bring her toys, third to see her
in the morning, fourth to bring her amoxicillin to the clinic).

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Takayuki - 04 Jul 2006 20:33 GMT
>I feel much better now, although that may be because I bawled
>to DH about how it's all my fault.  He was not at all appreciative or
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>far, first to bring Oscar, second to bring her toys, third to see her
>in the morning, fourth to bring her amoxicillin to the clinic).

Awww, it's okay.  Oscar will be fine.  She's probably just feeling a
little bored and lonesome now.  Vet trips can be so much worse.  I
lost count of how many vet trips I made with Betty where I was told
over and over that she was going to die.  But Oscar just has a sore on
her leg and is okay.  In a way, it's really something to be thankful
for.
Sam - 04 Jul 2006 21:18 GMT
Sorry for piggybacking but I just saw this and read the whole thread
first.  Many purrs for Oscar to get better quickly and purrs for your
nerves.

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Sam, closely supervised by Mistletoe

Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 21:30 GMT
> Sorry for piggybacking but I just saw this and read the whole thread
> first.  Many purrs for Oscar to get better quickly and purrs for
> your nerves.

Thanks very much.  Can Tak support your weight?  I haven't given a
piggy back ride in a long time!

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Adrian A - 04 Jul 2006 22:04 GMT
>> Sorry for piggybacking but I just saw this and read the whole thread
>> first.  Many purrs for Oscar to get better quickly and purrs for
>> your nerves.
>
> Thanks very much.  Can Tak support your weight?  I haven't given a
> piggy back ride in a long time!

Your post reminded me of a woman I know, I used to give her piggy backs when
she was little, up to age 7. Last year at age 28 and 160 pounds she said
'will you give me a piggy back again?' Guess what, I declined. ;-)
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Cats leave pawprints on your heart.
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk

Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 23:13 GMT
> Your post reminded me of a woman I know, I used to give her piggy
> backs when she was little, up to age 7. Last year at age 28 and 160
> pounds she said 'will you give me a piggy back again?' Guess what, I
> declined. ;-)

Haha!  Yeah, I don't remember the last time I got a piggy back ride =/

Why, I wonder, is it piggy back and not horsey back or something ...

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monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

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jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 04 Jul 2006 22:39 GMT
> > Sorry for piggybacking but I just saw this and read the whole thread
> > first.  Many purrs for Oscar to get better quickly and purrs for
> > your nerves.

> Thanks very much.  Can Tak support your weight?  I haven't given a
> piggy back ride in a long time!

I know that "piggybacking" is when someone responds to another poster,
and a third person responds to the original post via the second post, but
ignores the second poster. (Hope that was clear.) However, I didn't see
any intermediary post in Sam's message - no mention of Tak anywhere.
How did you know Sam was skipping over Tak's post? From my perspective,
all I saw was a post from Sam saying "sorry for piggybacking, but ..."
but I could see who he was piggybacking over.

Joyce
Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 23:12 GMT
> > Thanks very much.  Can Tak support your weight?  I haven't given a
> > piggy back ride in a long time!
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> saying "sorry for piggybacking, but ..." but I could see who he was
> piggybacking over.

I was about to answer this in complete technical detail, but then I
realized I didn't know the complete technical answer.

Short answer: my news client "threads" messages so that I see a
followup post indented under the post to which it was responding.
It's occasionally wrong, but mostly it's very clearly right.  So when
I saw Sam's post indented under Tak's, it was a good bet that Sam had
followed up to Tak's message.

If you can find a way to look at the complete headers for a message,
you will see a References: header.  It lists the genealogy, I guess,
of the message -- the message's parent, grandparent, etc.  I am just
now realizing that it is probably order-sensitive, which is probably
how the newsreader knows how to sort the messages.

Email, on the other hand, appears to typically have an In-Reply-To:
header.  But I haven't looked at the RFCs (specs) for email and news
messages, so I don't know all the details of how they are supposed
to work.

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jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 05 Jul 2006 08:16 GMT
> Short answer: my news client "threads" messages so that I see a
> followup post indented under the post to which it was responding.
> It's occasionally wrong, but mostly it's very clearly right.  So when
> I saw Sam's post indented under Tak's, it was a good bet that Sam had
> followed up to Tak's message.

I guess my news reader could thread messages, but I find threading
very annoying and kind of confusing - I prefer to read all the messages
sequentially, without regard to who is responding to whom. I do sort
posts by subject so I can read all the messages in the same subject
together before moving on to the next subject.

> If you can find a way to look at the complete headers for a message,
> you will see a References: header.  It lists the genealogy, I guess,
> of the message

Yes, I can see that, but it's just a bunch of numbers in angle
brackets. It's not clear to me which references go with which posts.

Joyce
Monique Y. Mudama - 05 Jul 2006 08:37 GMT
> > Short answer: my news client "threads" messages so that I see a
> > followup post indented under the post to which it was responding.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I do sort posts by subject so I can read all the messages in the
> same subject together before moving on to the next subject.

I guess that's why newsreaders typically support a lot of sorting
options =)   I find that threading allows me to follow conversations
more easily, but also (equally important) it allows me to easily
delete subthreads that I don't need (like flamewars).  And it's a
lifeline when you can't figure out what someone's talking about.

> > If you can find a way to look at the complete headers for a
> > message, you will see a References: header.  It lists the
> > genealogy, I guess, of the message
>
> Yes, I can see that, but it's just a bunch of numbers in angle
> brackets. It's not clear to me which references go with which posts.

Yeah, the things inside the angle brackets are message IDs.  They're
not in any way human readable, but a program can use them to do the
threading thing.

It occurs to me that my newsreader would allow me to view sorted by
whatever, and if I wanted to see the parent post, I could just hit
"esc p" and it would jump there.  I wonder if your client has
something similar, but of course you may not really care.

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jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 05 Jul 2006 20:58 GMT
> It occurs to me that my newsreader would allow me to view sorted by
> whatever, and if I wanted to see the parent post, I could just hit
> "esc p" and it would jump there.  I wonder if your client has
> something similar, but of course you may not really care.

What do you use for reading and posting to Usenet? Your posts say
"Posted via Supernews" - is that what it's called?

Joyce
Monique Y. Mudama - 05 Jul 2006 21:29 GMT
> > It occurs to me that my newsreader would allow me to view sorted
> > by whatever, and if I wanted to see the parent post, I could just
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> What do you use for reading and posting to Usenet? Your posts say
> "Posted via Supernews" - is that what it's called?

Er, I didn't realize that -- I guess that's the newsgroup provider my
ISP uses.

I don't think it used to do that, but unless it's a problem for
anyone, I guess that's okay.

Anyway, no, I use slrn, which I run off of a linux box.  It's
console-based, so I can read news from anywhere I can log into that
machine from, keeping my preference and history, etc.  You can see
that I run slrn in my User-Agent header, although I suppose someone
could spoof that pretty easily (can't think why they would, though).

Aww.  I took Oscar's e collar off for a short while (they said I sHould
do that if she wasn't eating or drinking; we'll see what happens when
I try to put it back on).  She hasn't been interested in food or
water, and for a while I had to fight her not to groom her paw, but
now she's sacked out, all four paws splayed, belly up.  I love her so
much.  I'd better remember this moment for when I do have to put the
collar back on.

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jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 05 Jul 2006 21:45 GMT
> Anyway, no, I use slrn, which I run off of a linux box.

Is that a later-generation version of "rn"? I used to use that way
back when. Then it was trn. Now I use "tin", which is a different
program altogether, although it is also run on a Linux shell remotely.
It's virus-free! :)

> now she's sacked out, all four paws splayed, belly up.  I love her so
> much.  I'd better remember this moment for when I do have to put the
> collar back on.

Awww... well if you didn't adore her, you wouldn't put yourself through
all this, but yeah, when she's driving you insane, it's good to remember
why you're doing it in the first place.

Joyce
Monique Y. Mudama - 05 Jul 2006 22:41 GMT
> > Anyway, no, I use slrn, which I run off of a linux box.
>
> Is that a later-generation version of "rn"? I used to use that way
> back when. Then it was trn. Now I use "tin", which is a different
> program altogether, although it is also run on a Linux shell
> remotely.  It's virus-free! :)

Exactly!  I also read my mail with mutt, also console based.  Viruses
etc. are mildly annoying, but at least they're not harmful.

I think only the naming convention is borrowed -- "slang read news"
vs. just "read news."  Maybe some of the code, too, I suppose.

I like slrn because it supports some pretty fancy macroing capability,
although I only use a tiny fraction of it.  I can have different
signatures and email addresses for different groups, stuff like that.

> > now she's sacked out, all four paws splayed, belly up.  I love her
> > so much.  I'd better remember this moment for when I do have to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> through all this, but yeah, when she's driving you insane, it's good
> to remember why you're doing it in the first place.

Yes.  She eventually got alert and started going for the paw, so
happily I now know that I can get the collar on her myself.  Only one
puncture to show for it!

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jXwXeXrXmXoXnXt@sonic.net - 05 Jul 2006 23:29 GMT
> Exactly!  I also read my mail with mutt, also console based.  Viruses
> etc. are mildly annoying, but at least they're not harmful.

You get viruses with mutt? How do they get to your system?

I also read email with mutt.

Joyce
Monique Y. Mudama - 05 Jul 2006 23:39 GMT
> > Exactly!  I also read my mail with mutt, also console based.
> > Viruses etc. are mildly annoying, but at least they're not
> > harmful.
>
> You get viruses with mutt? How do they get to your system?

I just mean that I can still see the email that has the virus.
Obviously it doesn't do anything to the system.

> I also read email with mutt.
>
> Joyce

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Sam - 06 Jul 2006 03:53 GMT
>>> Thanks very much.  Can Tak support your weight?  I haven't given a
>>> piggy back ride in a long time!
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> I saw Sam's post indented under Tak's, it was a good bet that Sam had
> followed up to Tak's message.

Correct.  And to respond to your original response to my post, I
wouldn't ask Tak to support my weight.  Here in the US, we have a
Constitutional provision about cruel and unusual punishment! ;)

> If you can find a way to look at the complete headers for a message,
> you will see a References: header.  It lists the genealogy, I guess,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> messages, so I don't know all the details of how they are supposed
> to work.

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Monique Y. Mudama - 05 Jul 2006 00:28 GMT
> Awww, it's okay.  Oscar will be fine.  She's probably just feeling a
> little bored and lonesome now.  Vet trips can be so much worse.  I
> lost count of how many vet trips I made with Betty where I was told
> over and over that she was going to die.  But Oscar just has a sore
> on her leg and is okay.  In a way, it's really something to be
> thankful for.

Yes, I do believe that.  Her health issues right now are pretty minor.
It's just that right now, they're causing me a lot of hassle and
worry.

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Winnie - 04 Jul 2006 21:07 GMT
> Oscar takes the time to inspect even food that she knows she likes.  I
> can't imagine trying to mix pills in food.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> far, first to bring Oscar, second to bring her toys, third to see her
> in the morning, fourth to bring her amoxicillin to the clinic).

Its OK Monique. Hugs.  It is good for you to cry and let the tension
out. Your DH probably just doesn't want you to blame yourself. You said
in an earlier post he offered to come home. So he is concerned and
wants to come home and help out.
Wish I have someone to help me out with Rusty. But no such luck.
Sigh! It usually takes such a toll on us when our cats are not feeling
well. Its the burden of
being a Meowmie. Only those of us with cats would understand.
BTW, July 4th now always brings back bad memories. It was on this day
that I got my layoff notice, 2 days before my 20th anniversary with the
company on July 6th. They gave me an anniversary gift afterwards.
Didn't know whether to cry or laugh at the time.

Winnie

> --
> monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully
>
> pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
Monique Y. Mudama - 05 Jul 2006 00:27 GMT
> Its OK Monique. Hugs.  It is good for you to cry and let the tension
> out. Your DH probably just doesn't want you to blame yourself. You said
> in an earlier post he offered to come home. So he is concerned and
> wants to come home and help out.

Yes, he is concerned.  And dammit, he does deserve a break from all
his stress.  But why can't I get a break?

Actually, I'm planning to "vacation in Boulder" some time this summer.
That is to say, stay home, but take a week off to go hiking and
otherwise enjoy my surroundings.  Today I officially asked Dad to
check his schedule and see if he might be able to come out and join
me.  I think that would be fun.  But regardless, I'm taking a week
off, and I'm doing it soon.

> Wish I have someone to help me out with Rusty. But no such luck.
> Sigh! It usually takes such a toll on us when our cats are not feeling
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> company on July 6th. They gave me an anniversary gift afterwards.
> Didn't know whether to cry or laugh at the time.

I'm sorry, Winnie.  The fourth has very different implications in my
house; it's DH's birthday.

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Karen - 05 Jul 2006 00:34 GMT
>> Its OK Monique. Hugs.  It is good for you to cry and let the tension
>> out. Your DH probably just doesn't want you to blame yourself. You said
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Yes, he is concerned.  And dammit, he does deserve a break from all
> his stress.  But why can't I get a break?

I ask myself that every day anymore. Sugar appears to be sick now
(actually, we've had a recurring problem for a while and there just
seems no physical reason, but she is going back tomorrow for more xrays
and bloodwork). I'm sick and depressed, which I've never really been
before. Pearl seems to be the best of us all. I have to figure out how
to take care of them while I go home to see my mom at the beginning of
August. I'm just starting to feel so constantly overwhelmed. Life
sucks.  I just want to feel happy again.

> Actually, I'm planning to "vacation in Boulder" some time this summer.
> That is to say, stay home, but take a week off to go hiking and
> otherwise enjoy my surroundings.  Today I officially asked Dad to
> check his schedule and see if he might be able to come out and join
> me.  I think that would be fun.  But regardless, I'm taking a week
> off, and I'm doing it soon.

I hope you get to. I would kill for a real vacation. I hope your Dad
can go. That would be fun.
Monique Y. Mudama - 05 Jul 2006 00:47 GMT
>>> Its OK Monique. Hugs.  It is good for you to cry and let the
>>> tension out. Your DH probably just doesn't want you to blame
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> the beginning of August. I'm just starting to feel so constantly
> overwhelmed. Life sucks.  I just want to feel happy again.

*hug* Karen.  You do sound like you may be a little depressed.  Have
you considered seeing a therapist?  It may be covered by your
insurance, or maybe you have an EAP that allows a certain number of
visits?  I know I'm teetering on the edge of depression right now,
just walking that fine line, as is DH.  I feel like the therapy
sessions I'm having are keeping me sane, and even helping me deal with
what comes a little better.

Do you have to visit your mother?  Will it improve or worsen your
emotional state?

The website we talked about earlier specifically mentions emotional
disorders being common, because gastric issues are so confusing,
difficult to diagnose, and their symptoms can be so alienating.  It's
not like you can talk to just anyone about symptoms like painful gas,
constipation and diarrhea.  I guess I'm lucky in that my therapist has
dealt with IBS for a long time, so she shares my frustration and can
help me deal with it.

>> Actually, I'm planning to "vacation in Boulder" some time this
>> summer.  That is to say, stay home, but take a week off to go
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> I hope you get to. I would kill for a real vacation. I hope your Dad
> can go. That would be fun.

I'll certainly be allowed to.  My company is good about letting people
take vacations.  I just need to take the time to do it, and I think if
I have a partner in crime I'll be more likely to use the vacation to
explore, rather than just sitting at home as I might be tempted to on
my own.

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Karen - 05 Jul 2006 05:31 GMT
>>>> Its OK Monique. Hugs.  It is good for you to cry and let the
>>>> tension out. Your DH probably just doesn't want you to blame
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> *hug* Karen.  You do sound like you may be a little depressed.  Have
> you considered seeing a therapist?

I really want to ride a horse. I never feel so able to forget worries
and troubles as on a horse, but the bills say I can't! But for the
first time, really, in my life, yeah, I think I am depressed and may
need to check into that. Ironically, riding would be cheaper but not
covered by insurance and probably as effective.

> It may be covered by your
> insurance, or maybe you have an EAP that allows a certain number of
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Do you have to visit your mother?  Will it improve or worsen your
> emotional state?

I really want to see her. I haven't been home in so long. But I am
worried about leaving Pearl for the first time since diabetes and
asthma rx and actually MORE worried about leaving picky eater, shy
Sugar. But it will be so expensive to get someone in here frequently
enough that the trip will have to be short.

> The website we talked about earlier specifically mentions emotional
> disorders being common, because gastric issues are so confusing,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> dealt with IBS for a long time, so she shares my frustration and can
> help me deal with it.

yeah, definitely this was generated by frustration over that. I tested
myself today by having a pretty high fat (but damn tasty) lunch. Well,
definitely set me off a bit. I think he is so right that is what I
have. I think I am just frustrated that I still have to probably get a
bajillion more tests before we can say OK, this is it. And run up bills
and meanwhile Sugar is going to have to go to the vet. I just wish I
could FIX her and I'm very scared there is no fix :(  She eats, she
plays if I get out a feather, but in between she huddles (and doesn't
seem to sleep well :(  )

Arrrgh.

>>> Actually, I'm planning to "vacation in Boulder" some time this
>>> summer.  That is to say, stay home, but take a week off to go
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> explore, rather than just sitting at home as I might be tempted to on
> my own.
Monique Y. Mudama - 06 Jul 2006 05:40 GMT
> I really want to ride a horse. I never feel so able to forget
> worries and troubles as on a horse, but the bills say I can't! But
> for the first time, really, in my life, yeah, I think I am depressed
> and may need to check into that. Ironically, riding would be cheaper
> but not covered by insurance and probably as effective.

Is there any way for you to get a ride on a horse?  You're probably
right, and if there's something you really want to do, then that is a
great antidote to depression.

Oddly enough, another friend of mine sounds pretty depressed (hates
her job and hates the location) ... I told her that I try to keep tabs
on my depression and identify it.  She asked me, well, how does that
help?  Can you keep yourself from getting depressed that way?  I
didn't really have an answer for that.  I guess I would go to therapy.
(Hey, I guess I am!  Although not via that route.)   But if you've
never been, it must seem much more daunting and like a bridge that
can't be crossed twice.  "Now I'm a person who's sought mental health
threatment."  Also, there's always the matter of finding a good
professional.  I've been coaxed out of depression by therapists who
were "okay," but in retrospect they were pale, pale reflections of the
powers of my current therapist, who is much less judgemental and
understands me much better.  Or maybe her techniques are just better
suited for me.

>> Do you have to visit your mother?  Will it improve or worsen your
>> emotional state?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Sugar. But it will be so expensive to get someone in here frequently
> enough that the trip will have to be short.

Is it possible to pay to have her come to you?  Just trying to think
of a way to avoid all of this stress.

>> The website we talked about earlier specifically mentions emotional
>> disorders being common, because gastric issues are so confusing,
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> fix :(  She eats, she plays if I get out a feather, but in between
> she huddles (and doesn't seem to sleep well :(  )

I never was able to find a solid connection between what I eat and what
my belly did.  That gels pretty well with my diagnosis, too ...  it
either hurts and causes D, or it doesn't.  End of story.  I guess that's
nice, in that I can eat what I want, but also means that I can't
regulate it through proper eating if it flares up again.

Not knowing what's wrong is high up there in the stress category, and
here you have this for two loved ones (yourself and Sugar).  No wonder
you're feeling overwhelmed.  

> Arrrgh.

Yup.  Arrrgh, indeed.

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Cheryl - 05 Jul 2006 00:47 GMT
> I ask myself that every day anymore. Sugar appears to be sick
> now (actually, we've had a recurring problem for a while and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> starting to feel so constantly overwhelmed. Life sucks.  I just
> want to feel happy again.

{{{{{{KAREN}}}}}}

I wish I had some advice or suggestion. It seems you've had it rough
with your girls since Grant died.

Signature

Cheryl

Winnie - 05 Jul 2006 01:45 GMT
> I ask myself that every day anymore. Sugar appears to be sick now
> (actually, we've had a recurring problem for a while and there just
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> August. I'm just starting to feel so constantly overwhelmed. Life
> sucks.  I just want to feel happy again.

Oh Karen I am so sorry to hear that. Hugs. Life is hard, especially
when your cat is not feeling
well. Just take one day at a time. I told myself to thank God each day
I have Rusty around. Rusty had to go to the vet just about every single
month this year. He may have
to go back again if his fur doesn't grow back. He has bald patch on his
tummy and he looks
very skinny with thinning fur.

Take good care of yourself. Make sure you eat right and get plenty of
rest. Just vent in this
group when things seem too overwhelming.

Purrs going out to you and Sugar.

Winnie

> I hope you get to. I would kill for a real vacation. I hope your Dad
> can go. That would be fun.
polonca12000 - 07 Jul 2006 22:04 GMT
> I ask myself that every day anymore. Sugar appears to be sick now
> (actually, we've had a recurring problem for a while and there just
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> August. I'm just starting to feel so constantly overwhelmed. Life
> sucks.  I just want to feel happy again.
<snip>

LOts and lots of purrs and hugs for you, Karen, and for Sugar to be
healthy again,
Polonca and Soncek
polonca12000 - 07 Jul 2006 22:01 GMT
>>Its OK Monique. Hugs.  It is good for you to cry and let the tension
>>out. Your DH probably just doesn't want you to blame yourself. You said
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> me.  I think that would be fun.  But regardless, I'm taking a week
> off, and I'm doing it soon.
<snip>

You really deserve and need a vacation, Monique.
Lots and lots of calming purrs and hugs,
Polonca and Soncek
Monique Y. Mudama - 08 Jul 2006 00:21 GMT
> You really deserve and need a vacation, Monique.  Lots and lots of
> calming purrs and hugs, Polonca and Soncek

Thank you.  My dad is looking for flights for the end of the month.  I
hope that we can spend a high-quality week together hiking and not
sniping.  It's so hit or miss ... sometimes he and I get along so well
together; other times ...

Ah well.  Not going to change him.  I will try to just love him and
overlook the stuff that annoys me.

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CatNipped - 04 Jul 2006 14:19 GMT
Purrs for Oscar to get better quickly - and purrs for your frazzled nerves
(you are a *GOOD* meow-mie)!

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Hugs,

CatNipped

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> Short version:
>
[quoted text clipped - 87 lines]
> kitty-morphine they gave her (B-something, can't remember the name), she
> was calm enough to even luv up on the vet techs.
Kreisleriana - 04 Jul 2006 15:05 GMT
>Short version:
>
[quoted text clipped - 87 lines]
>kitty-morphine they gave her (B-something, can't remember the name), she
>was calm enough to even luv up on the vet techs.  

How scary and exhausting.  Purrs for both of you to feel better soon.

Theresa
Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh

Make Levees, Not War
sriddles@aol.com - 04 Jul 2006 15:27 GMT
> Short version:
>
[quoted text clipped - 90 lines]
> --
> monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

Poor Oscar. What is with abscesses this month...Oscar, Vino, Biskit
too!
With Biskit (and it was a relatively bad abscess), the vet hardly
touched it except to clean it a bit, gave us antibiotic and sent us on
our way. One time Bosley had one, different vet, they kept him
overnight, sedated him to completely debride it, gave hime antibiotics,
sent him home the next day. Don't know what the difference was.
Bozzie's actually didn't look as bad to me as Biskit's.
Maybe it's just vet preference of treatment. Oscar will get well,
though and be good as new soon. Try not to get too upset. I imagine
it's harder on you than her.
Purrs for uneventful and fast healing.

Sherry
Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 15:51 GMT
> Poor Oscar. What is with abscesses this month...Oscar, Vino, Biskit
> too!  With Biskit (and it was a relatively bad abscess), the vet
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I imagine it's harder on you than her.  Purrs for uneventful and
> fast healing.

Thank you.  Oscar seems pretty good at the vet's, but I think she's
still woozy from the sedative.  It turns out it wasn't an abscess,
after all, but it may have been (inconclusive) fiberglass from our
basement.  Ugh.  I will need to talk to DH about what we should do --
I would hate to restrict her from ever entering the basement (it's her
safe place, plus right now that's where her litter boxes are), but
it's hard to imagine successfully boarding up or otherwise blocking
off all the exposed insulation.

I'm just not really sure what we will need to do to make sure this
never happens again.  But maybe some sleep will help me figure that
out.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Takayuki - 04 Jul 2006 18:09 GMT
>Poor Oscar. What is with abscesses this month...Oscar, Vino, Biskit
>too!
>With Biskit (and it was a relatively bad abscess), the vet hardly
>touched it except to clean it a bit, gave us antibiotic and sent us on
>our way.

She's okay now?  Maybe one factor is that abscesses can be hard to
find on cats, so they get overlooked.  I imagined you might have had
even more trouble finding it if Biskit didn't happen to have a lion
cut.
Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 18:49 GMT
>>Poor Oscar. What is with abscesses this month...Oscar, Vino, Biskit
>>too!  With Biskit (and it was a relatively bad abscess), the vet
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> even more trouble finding it if Biskit didn't happen to have a lion
> cut.

I wonder how well we can evaluate a "bad" case as laypeople ... maybe
it wasn't as bad as it looked.

Not that it's the same thing, but, a sprained wrist may not even look
injured, whereas a several-inch patch of lacerations looks really bad.
But I know which one I would rather have.

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monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 15:30 GMT
I talked to the vet this morning.  Apparently he decided last night,
when he finally got enough time to look at it properly, that it was
*not* an abscess.  So he did clean the wound, but no
surgery/anesthesia required.  That drastically reduced the cost, which
means that I can use the extra from my deposit to pay for ... leaving
her at the clinic today.

I'll probably need to pick her up tomorrow morning.  I can't afford to
leave her there at $200 a day, but at least I know she'll be in an
enclosed area.

The vet's best lead is that there's some fiberglass that caused enough
irritation that Oscar started licking.  The licking appears to be most
of the damage right now.  The treatment for that is to leave the paw
exposed and wait for the irritant to work its way out, which means ...
e collar for Oscar.  There's no way to get around it.

He looked at the irritant under the microscope and couldn't swear it
was fiberglass, but apparently that's the right size and there *is*
exposed insulation in the basement.  I knew I should really do
something about that, but ... I never did.

Certainly I can't let her be in the basement anymore, not until I find
a way to block off the crawlspace or something.  I need to figure out
if I can make the bedroom safe for a terrified cat with an e collar,
or if I need to put her in a bathroom.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

John F. Eldredge - 04 Jul 2006 16:00 GMT
>I talked to the vet this morning.  Apparently he decided last night,
>when he finally got enough time to look at it properly, that it was
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>if I can make the bedroom safe for a terrified cat with an e collar,
>or if I need to put her in a bathroom.

I can certainly sympathize with poor Oscar.  I have gotten fiberglass
fragments in my skin before; it itches madly, and there is nothing you
can do but wait for it to work its way out of the skin.  Fortunately,
it generally doesn't penetrate very deeply, so the itching will
probably be gone within two or three days at the most.

Signature

John F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com
PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 16:10 GMT
On 2006-07-04, John F  Eldredge penned:

> I can certainly sympathize with poor Oscar.  I have gotten
> fiberglass fragments in my skin before; it itches madly, and there
> is nothing you can do but wait for it to work its way out of the
> skin.  Fortunately, it generally doesn't penetrate very deeply, so
> the itching will probably be gone within two or three days at the
> most.

I don't remember if I've gotten fiberglass in my skin before, but I
know it's a horrible experience, and I just feel awful that I may have
inadvertently caused Oscar's trauma through negligence (not
proactively dealing with the insulation issue somehow).  Dumb, dumb,
dumb!

Two or three days?  I hope that's the case.  Maybe the topical steroid
is to help with the itching more than anything.  Unfortunately you
can't reason with a cat.  I've tried telling her not to lick and
gently moving her when she does it, but I might as well tell the sun
not to shine.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

mlbriggs - 04 Jul 2006 21:42 GMT
>>I talked to the vet this morning.  Apparently he decided last night,
>>when he finally got enough time to look at it properly, that it was
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> it generally doesn't penetrate very deeply, so the itching will
> probably be gone within two or three days at the most.

And to think that "way back then' they used it to decorate Christmas
trees.  MLB
jmcquown - 04 Jul 2006 23:36 GMT
>>> I talked to the vet this morning.  Apparently he decided last night,
>>> when he finally got enough time to look at it properly, that it was
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> And to think that "way back then' they used it to decorate Christmas
> trees.  MLB

LOL I remember as a kid making an angel tree topper and topping it with
white fiberglass "hair".

Jill
Jo Firey - 04 Jul 2006 23:46 GMT
>>>> I talked to the vet this morning.  Apparently he decided last night,
>>>> when he finally got enough time to look at it properly, that it was
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Jill

Ah yes.  And sometimes we even covered the tree with gobs of the stuff.  Or
at least put puffs of it around the lights.  It was pretty.

Jo
badwilson - 04 Jul 2006 16:02 GMT
Ugh, fibreglass.  Yeah, that can get itchy.  I'm glad that's all it
probably turned out to be though and Oscar didn't need surgery.
Purrs for you to figure something out with the basement.
Signature

Britta
Purring is an automatic safety valve device for dealing with happiness
overflow.
Check out pictures of Vino at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

> I talked to the vet this morning.  Apparently he decided last night,
> when he finally got enough time to look at it properly, that it was
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> if I can make the bedroom safe for a terrified cat with an e collar,
> or if I need to put her in a bathroom.
Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 16:15 GMT
> Ugh, fibreglass.  Yeah, that can get itchy.  I'm glad that's all it
> probably turned out to be though and Oscar didn't need surgery.
> Purrs for you to figure something out with the basement.

I just wish I knew for sure.  The vet said he looked at the debris
under the microscope, and it was the right size for fiberglass, but he
couldn't find any pictures of fiberglass under the microscope to
compare to.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Karen - 04 Jul 2006 17:34 GMT
I was just wondering if you could get some of that heat shrink plastic
to go over the exposed insulation area? not good for you guys to have
that exposed either.
Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 18:03 GMT
> I was just wondering if you could get some of that heat shrink
> plastic to go over the exposed insulation area? not good for you
> guys to have that exposed either.

I just took a look.  The full-sized half of the basement has plastic
covering yellow insulation. The yellow sticks out here and there at
the edges, but I doubt that it was the problem.

The crawlspace, on the other hand, has pink insulation all around with
no covering.  There's also at least one square just lying on the
ground, where Oscar might have walked, and a few rolls that are mostly
plastic wrapped, but I'd have to investigate more closely to figure
out if they could be a problem.  I imagine, though, that it's not as
simple as covering up or removing existing pieces -- won't there be
microscopic particles everywhere?

DH says that I shouldn't feel guilty and that we can't cat-proof the
whole house.  He says he doesn't even necessarily agree that we should
do anything to block Oscar's access.  I think he has a habit of
overstating the difficulty of something and then throwing up his
hands.  Of course we can take some sort of steps.  He just doesn't
want to deal with it.

I think we should also inventory that crawl space -- get some real
lights in there, all the way to the back, and be sure we know what's
there.  Crawlspace isn't the right term -- it's uneven dirt covered in
heavy plastic and a few boards, and enough room for me to walk if I
hunch over.  I was able to carry Oscar to the edge while walking,
albeit in a half-squat.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Karen - 04 Jul 2006 21:26 GMT
>> I was just wondering if you could get some of that heat shrink
>> plastic to go over the exposed insulation area? not good for you
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> simple as covering up or removing existing pieces -- won't there be
> microscopic particles everywhere?

Power Vac after sealing in the insulation. Honestly, you think those
particles aren't getting into YOUR lungs too?

> DH says that I shouldn't feel guilty and that we can't cat-proof the
> whole house.  He says he doesn't even necessarily agree that we should
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> hunch over.  I was able to carry Oscar to the edge while walking,
> albeit in a half-squat.
Monique Y. Mudama - 06 Jul 2006 05:48 GMT
> Power Vac after sealing in the insulation. Honestly, you think those
> particles aren't getting into YOUR lungs too?

I've done some research now, and it's not that straightforward.
Insulation can't be fully sealed, or it gets wet and bad things start
growing in there.  We have partially plastic-covered insulation in the
full-height part of the basement, but that's apparently a different
material altogether (and only used in dry climates, at that).  The
plastic is perforated, with gaps at the top and bottom.  Also, there
are special considerations since the floor of the crawlspace is just
plain dirt.  Very easy for mold to get started and migrate into the
house.

According to a friend of mine, the basement should never have been
insulated -- it's counterproductive as, being in the ground, it would
typically stay about the same cool temp year round.  But since the
insulation is already there, it would cause a much worse debris
problem to try to remove it.

Soooo ... I dunno.  DH has asked me to wait until he returns to make a
decision.  My friend recommended putting some sort of barrier up from
the bottom to the top of the crawlspace entrance; I guess we could
build a door into something like that.

I know almost nothing about fiberglass, but I do know that I've lived
in houses with exposed fiberglass in the attic etc all my life, and I
don't think it's all that unusual, and I don't think it poses an
immediate health risk as no one spends much time in the basement.
Although come to think of it the air intake vent is in the basement.
Hummmm.  Okay, strike that last bit about no harm.

I will need to figure out if there's harm and how to address it, but
DH has asked me to wait till he's here so that we can find a solution
together, and as we've lived here several years, another week won't
kill me.

Come to think of it, I haven't actually gone and verified that it's
fiberglass -- I just assumed insulation would be.  Anyone know if new
houses (this one was built in '98) still use fiberglass?

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monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Takayuki - 04 Jul 2006 18:28 GMT
>> Ugh, fibreglass.  Yeah, that can get itchy.  I'm glad that's all it
>> probably turned out to be though and Oscar didn't need surgery.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>couldn't find any pictures of fiberglass under the microscope to
>compare to.

This is beginning to sound more like forensics than veterinary
medicine, but I'm glad that Oscar's abscess is not an abscess.
Although I would have thought they would have been able to find that
out sooner.  That clinic sounds odd. :)
Monique Y. Mudama - 04 Jul 2006 19:05 GMT
>>I just wish I knew for sure.  The vet said he looked at the debris
>>under the microscope, and it was the right size for fiberglass, but
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Although I would have thought they would have been able to find that
> out sooner.  That clinic sounds odd. :)

Did I mention there were TV cameras everywhere and they asked me which
was my good side? =P

Just kidding.

My vet didn't think it was an abscess.  The emergency vet had several
critical care patients that evening, so he really only got a quick
look at it, which revealed a very swollen paw.  He smelled something
foul, which I guess I didn't mention to them, but anyway that was as
near as I and my regular vet could figure it from anal glands
expressed due to stress.  So he smelled something foul and saw the
swelling, and he figured that could only be Bad News.  Once he got her
prepped and could look at it a little more carefully, he wasn't so
sure, so he lanced the pad -- no pus.  Because there wasn't any at
all, he is pretty sure there's no abscess.

I'm glad they prepared for the worst and it turned out to be less
severe.  It probably got her treated more quickly, too.

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monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca