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Cat Forum / Cat Anecdotes / July 2006Link between dry food and kidney disease?
A friend just told me that a veterinarian she knows said that the reason domestic cats so often get kidney disease is because they're fed dry food, and their bodies didn't evolve to deal with so much non-meat in their diet. I can understand that dry food can bring on diabetes, because the cat is eating a lot more carbohydrate than their body needs or is built for metabolizing. But kidney disease? I always thought that too much *protein* was the cause (or one of the causes) of kidney failure. Or can cats ever have too much protein? Any of the medically savvy want to take a stab at this? Howard? Phil, if you're reading? Joyce >A friend just told me that a veterinarian she knows said that the reason > domestic cats so often get kidney disease is because they're fed dry food, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Any of the medically savvy want to take a stab at this? Howard? Phil, > if you're reading? I would have thought it was due to the lack of water content in it. In its natural environment - deserts - a cat would live off eating other animals, which would contain approximatley 70% water because drinking water in deserts is rare. Dry food does't have the water content, so a cat's kidneys have to work harder to extract the toxins from the blood stream and therefore make a much more highly concentrated uring than they would in the wild. The harder the kidneys have to work, the mor elikely it is that they'll begin to fail early, so *flesh* was preferrable to dry food. Yowie (well, thats how my vet explained it to me. Of course, in its natural evironment, the cat also doesn't have bathroom faucets and trained slaves either) >>A friend just told me that a veterinarian she knows said that the reason >> domestic cats so often get kidney disease is because they're fed dry [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > in the wild. The harder the kidneys have to work, the mor elikely it is > that they'll begin to fail early, so *flesh* was preferrable to dry food. My vet told me to take Boyfriend off dry food (which he loved, maybe he was reared on it) to prevent kidney disease and urinary blockage and put him on wet food. Boyfie went on hunger strike, so I rang the vet and he told me to persist as it was in his own best interest. He did eventually eat it and he is okay with it now, he just gets a tablespoonful of dry as a treat a few times a week. KFC will eat absolutely anything, presumably because she was feral and ate anything she could get. She can't eat dry now because she doesn't have many teeth left. I took a funny photo of her last week climbing into the chicken bucket because I'd put some leftover dinner in there without offering it to her first! I'll try and upload it somewhere soon. It's still in my camera and I'm a bit pushed for time. When you see her climbing into a 2 gallon bucket you'll realise how really tiny she is. Tweed > My vet told me to take Boyfriend off dry food (which he loved, maybe he was > reared on it) to prevent kidney disease and urinary blockage and put him on [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Tweed After Rusty's second urinary blockage, the vet said no more dry food, not even prescription dry food for urinary blockages. He has been eating only can food since then. He did have crystals a few times, but he was not blocked. Not that I can remember anyway. Memory of all those mad dashes to the vet are kind of mixed up now. I add water to the can food to make sure Rusty get plenty of water. I adjust the amount of water added depending on the output in the litter box. Winnie >A friend just told me that a veterinarian she knows said that the reason > domestic cats so often get kidney disease is because they're fed dry food, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Joyce Just my two cents. Our first dog nearly died of kidney failure at eight years old. And the vet blamed it on her getting into the cats food with its high protein level. This was for the most part dry cat food as that's mostly what we've always fed. She recovered, restricted to K/D for the rest of her 18 year life. None of our cats have had kidney or diabetes problems. But that's only seven cats over forty years. I have a question though. I get the impression that we've agreed that all moist cat food is very low in carbs and that all dry cat food is high in carbs. Isn't there a range of carb vs protein in both of them? I can understand that a cat might not drink enough water to handle an all dry food diet, though that has never been a problem with ours. But is there always that large a difference in the composition of the two? Our cats are healthy, slim, and have lovely coats. And for the most part live on Nutro dry cat food. Jo >Just my two cents. Our first dog nearly died of kidney failure at eight >years old. And the vet blamed it on her getting into the cats food with its >high protein level. This was for the most part dry cat food as that's >mostly what we've always fed. She recovered, restricted to K/D for the >rest of her 18 year life. What I find odd about this old wet-dry debate as relates to kidney problems in cats is that so many vets have their patients put on a diet featuring K/D - which comes in both wet and dry varieties. (if dry is so awful on kidneys, why does K/D come in dry?) Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha ============ http://www.jhedge.com > >Just my two cents. Our first dog nearly died of kidney failure at eight > >years old. And the vet blamed it on her getting into the cats food with its [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha Very good question! I do know that some cats refuse wet food. Boots like dry much better than canned. S >> >Just my two cents. Our first dog nearly died of kidney failure at eight >> >years old. And the vet blamed it on her getting into the cats food with [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > S Max preferred rabbits. >>> Just my two cents. Our first dog nearly died of kidney failure at eight >>> years old. And the vet blamed it on her getting into the cats food with its [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > S Because people want convenience. Companies also offer, I think, nice perks to vets. Rather like pharmaceutical companies to doctors. Wet food is messy, inconvenient, but rather than educate, they just provide the easy thing. That's what I think anyway. i think vets are slllloooowly coming to the conclusion that it isn't the best thing, but only the pro-active are going to really say anything. >Because people want convenience. Companies also offer, I think, nice >perks to vets. Rather like pharmaceutical companies to doctors. Wet >food is messy, inconvenient, but rather than educate, they just provide >the easy thing. That's what I think anyway. i think vets are >slllloooowly coming to the conclusion that it isn't the best thing, but >only the pro-active are going to really say anything. From what I'm hearing, vets seem to have two concerns when it comes to wet vs dry food. Vets who are concerned about gums recommend dry. Vets who are concerned about urine recommend wet. So maybe the best diet depends on the cat in question. Then, there's Miranda, who doesn't have either issue, because she's fed something more natural than either of these - raw meat. > >Because people want convenience. Companies also offer, I think, nice > >perks to vets. Rather like pharmaceutical companies to doctors. Wet [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Then, there's Miranda, who doesn't have either issue, because she's > fed something more natural than either of these - raw meat. HOnestly though it is a myth that dry food helps gums. Miranda will have the best teeth of anyone! Myself, after seeing Pearl's numbers drop like a stone after taking her off all dry and Grant's uti's and Sugar's bowel problems (and I can't quite get her off ALL her dry), will never EVER start a cat on dry in my life ever again. > > >Because people want convenience. Companies also offer, I think, nice > > >perks to vets. Rather like pharmaceutical companies to doctors. Wet [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > (and I can't quite get her off ALL her dry), will never EVER start a cat on > dry in my life ever again. I bet you are right. If any of us had experienced the health problems that you have with Pearl we wouldn't be so ambivalent about dry food. Like we talked about before, it's not a natural diet for a cat at all. Dry food is far more convenient for the owner, and I think that's the biggest benefit it offers. I wish I could find a wet food that Boots would eat. I tried Wellness canned even, and she sniffed it and took off running like her tail was on fire. Sherry > > > >Because people want convenience. Companies also offer, I think, nice > > > >perks to vets. Rather like pharmaceutical companies to doctors. Wet [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Sherry I had one cat that absolutely refused to eat anything but dry food. I think she would have starved herself to death if I hadn't given it to her. Joy > > > > >Because people want convenience. Companies also offer, I think, nice > > > > >perks to vets. Rather like pharmaceutical companies to doctors. Wet [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Joy I think Boots would too. I tried the "If she gets hungry enough she'll eat it" approach and that didn't work. Little doo-doo head. She knew I wouldn't let her go more than a day without caving in. Sherry > > > > > >Because people want convenience. Companies also offer, I think, nice > > > > > >perks to vets. Rather like pharmaceutical companies to doctors. Wet [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > Sherry Yes, I think the fact that they know we're softies has something to do with it. Joy >> > I had one cat that absolutely refused to eat anything but dry food. I > think [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Joy Ours look at me like "right, and you think this is the only place to eat in this neighborhood?" I figure better high quality kibble at home than generic on the neighbors patio. I do offer them canned food when the weather is really hot and dry, and they do at least sample it then. Jake gets his nightly shrimp. And lately Molly has been nosing in on that. Jo > I had one cat that absolutely refused to eat anything but dry > food. I think she would have starved herself to death if I > hadn't given it to her. Bonnie was like that for the longest time. I put out the only canned she'll eat every night, and where she used to hold out a long time to go eat it, now she only waits until Shamrock is finished eating. 15 minutes these days. ;) She eats 1/2 a small can of Wellness 1x per day in addition to her little bit of dry food 2x per day. I've tried giving her a small portion in the morning, but she seems to think the canned is only for dinner. She's much better than she used to be with it though!  SignatureCheryl > Dry food is far more convenient for the owner, and I think that's the > biggest benefit it offers. Dry food is convenient only in the sense that it gives me more flexibility in my schedule. I leave a large bowl of dry food down at all times, and if I'm gone for many hours, they can snack on that until I get home. If I were feeding them only wet food, I would put down only enough for that meal, which would then be gone hours before I get home. It would also mean that if I went out of town, people would have to come in twice a day and at regular hours. Up to now, when I go away, I have someone come in once a day and give them wet food. They have the dry to snack on if they get hungry. I would probably continue to do that even if I took them off dry for most other times. I don't find the wet food inconvenient in any other way, though. It's not *that* hard to clean their dishes! Joyce > Dry food is convenient only in the sense that it gives me more > flexibility in my schedule. I leave a large bowl of dry food down > at all times, and if I'm gone for many hours, they can snack on > that until I get home. If I were feeding them only wet food, I > would put down only enough for that meal, which would then be gone > hours before I get home. When I first got Rusty, that was what the vet said about the convenience of dry food. The vet was not big on wet food then. Not until Rusty had his second urinary blockage. That;s when the vet said no more dry food, just canned food. > It would also mean that if I went out of town, people would have to > come in twice a day and at regular hours. Up to now, when I go away, > I have someone come in once a day and give them wet food. They have > the dry to snack on if they get hungry. I would probably continue to > do that even if I took them off dry for most other times. After all his urinary problems, I can't find anyone reliable to look after Rusty when I am out of town. So he got boarded at the vet. I feel better knowing the vet is there if he needs medical attention.. Only thing is poor Rusty has to live in a cage there. He doesn't like it and try to break out of jail. They even let him out to wander around in the room, but he just hid in the corners. It always make me feel guilty. Plus it is more costly to board him. Winnie > I don't find the wet food inconvenient in any other way, though. It's > not *that* hard to clean their dishes! > > Joyce > Dry food is convenient only in the sense that it gives me more > flexibility in my schedule. I leave a large bowl of dry food down > at all times, and if I'm gone for many hours, they can snack on > that until I get home. If I were feeding them only wet food, I > would put down only enough for that meal, which would then be gone > hours before I get home. When I first got Rusty, that was what the vet said about the convenience of dry food. The vet was not big on wet food then. Not until Rusty had his second urinary blockage. That;s when the vet said no more dry food, just canned food. > It would also mean that if I went out of town, people would have to > come in twice a day and at regular hours. Up to now, when I go away, > I have someone come in once a day and give them wet food. They have > the dry to snack on if they get hungry. I would probably continue to > do that even if I took them off dry for most other times. After all his urinary problems, I can't find anyone reliable to look after Rusty when I am out of town. So he got boarded at the vet. I feel better knowing the vet is there if he needs medical attention.. Only thing is poor Rusty has to live in a cage there. He doesn't like it and try to break out of jail. They even let him out to wander around in the room, but he just hid in the corners. It always make me feel guilty. Plus it is more costly to board him. Winnie > I don't find the wet food inconvenient in any other way, though. It's > not *that* hard to clean their dishes! > > Joyce > Very good question! I do know that some cats refuse wet food. Boots > like dry much better than canned. > > S Fin (RB) wouldn't eat wet food AT ALL. Believe me, I tried. He only liked to lick the gravy off of the sliced meat in gravy types, and I hated the waste. So, as long as he was destined to eat only dry, I got Nutra Maz, which is one of the better brands. He also had a UTI once, but only once. He didn't drink much water, either. I'm sorry to say that he didn't live to a ripe old age (10 1/2?), but he never suffered from any physical problems, kidney, diabetes or anything. He did get rather fat at 17 lbs, which is odd because he didn't free-feed, and he didn't eat people food or treats. He got his one handful of food a day and that's it. Even the vet was puzzled. But, he had a checkup just a few weeks beefore he died unexpectedly, and except for being fat, the vet said he was very healthy. Even his teeth were clean. He death was atributed to a heart attack due to some rare congentel defect, we think. Rita likes both wet and dry, but also won't touch people food. If it doesn't say CAT FOOD on the label, she doesn't want it. Little snob. heehe Jane - owned and operated by Princess Rita > A friend just told me that a veterinarian she knows said that the > reason domestic cats so often get kidney disease is because they're [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Joyce Beats me. Persia's vet doesn't seem overly concerned that she's eating only dry food (Hill's x/d). Her checkup came out just fine except she's still a little "fluffy" :) She's (we guess) about 8 years old. I got her some of the gooshy x/d but she didn't care for it. And since this is the only food she's supposed to eat since her bladder surgery a couple of years ago, I have to think the vet knows what he's talking about. She has not had a recurrence of UTI since, whereas before the surgery and this Hill's x/d diet, she was experiencing them every few months. Persia's kidney enzymes checked out just fine. Does your friend have a citation for her information or is she just passing along something she heard from someone who heard from someone who heard...? Jill > Persia's kidney enzymes checked out just fine. Does your friend have a > citation for her information or is she just passing along something she > heard from someone who heard from someone who heard...? She heard it from a veterinarian. As she put it, a "newly minted" veterinarian. Which could translate to "inexperienced", but can also translate to "up on the latest info." I'd never heard that before myself, so I was just curious if anyone here ever has. Joyce > > Persia's kidney enzymes checked out just fine. Does your friend > have a > citation for her information or is she just passing along [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Joyce I read the package of the Hill's x/d that Persia eats (dry food). Protein tops the list. Jill > > Persia's kidney enzymes checked out just fine. Does your friend have a > > citation for her information or is she just passing along something she [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Joyce I don't have citations, but just think about it. Dry food is about the most un-natural form of sustenance for a cat you can imagine. This is a gross example, but it really made me stop and think. Look at that stuff when it gets wet. It absorbs water like a sponge, and swells up twice its size. That's what's happening in your cat's stomache, and it's absorbing from the cat. Vets used to recommend science diet exclusively, but they seem to be getting away, at least, from recommending a dry cereal diet. They make quite a bit of money from SD on sales, also. Sherry >> > Persia's kidney enzymes checked out just fine. Does your friend have a >> > citation for her information or is she just passing along something she [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >recommending a dry cereal diet. They make quite a bit of money from SD >on sales, also. So is science-diet good, bad or indifferent? It's what we feed the girls and they seem to like it. They've always had science diet kibble and now they get SD indoor-lite-hairball control (poor babies, it doesn't sound like much fun to me!) and Tessie gets a little bit of SD canned food morning and night to supplement it. > >> > Persia's kidney enzymes checked out just fine. Does your friend have a > >> > citation for her information or is she just passing along something she [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > doesn't sound like much fun to me!) and Tessie gets a little bit of SD > canned food morning and night to supplement it. Oh, I don't think it's bad, for sure. I"ve heard people criticize it because it has a high corn content, but I know a lot of people who use it, and their cats do very well on it. My cats just don't like it. Boots only eats Pro Plan dry, and what wet food I can coax her into eating. Pro Plan probably isn't as good as Science Diet, but you know how cats are. She just flat refuses anything else, no matter how I try to sneak it past her. I think what's most important is that cats plenty of water w/their dry food, and I think a diet of *both* is ideal. (Ha. That's just my opinion, though, and I'm no expert) Sherry > >> > Persia's kidney enzymes checked out just fine. Does your friend have a > >> > citation for her information or is she just passing along something she [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > doesn't sound like much fun to me!) and Tessie gets a little bit of SD > canned food morning and night to supplement it. It is truly more about wet vs. dry than brand. I bet Scout and SIlver would even drop their extra pounds by switching to wet. > She heard it from a veterinarian. As she put it, a "newly minted" > veterinarian. Which could translate to "inexperienced", but can also > translate to "up on the latest info." > > I'd never heard that before myself, so I was just curious if anyone > here ever has. Someone on the Finnish cat group mentioned that a vet had told her that she (the vet) had never seen a case of kidney disease in cats until all the dry food came on the market here (I believe it hasn't even been available here for more than 20-30 years). I'm a firm believer in wet food for cats. Just look at a piece of kibble and the natural food for a cat - a small rodent. ;o) At least wet food looks somewhat like it could have some features in common with the rodent. But kibble? No way. Like Yowie said, cats are built to get most of their water out of their food. It's possible to make them drink enough water if they eat only dry, but I don't want to mess with nature that way. Of course, Miranda does not eat any cat food, wet or dry. She only eats fresh meat and sometimes some poached fish. I told the vet that, and the vet said, 'she obviously knows she's a meat eater.' :o) SignatureMarina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki. Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/ Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki >> She heard it from a veterinarian. As she put it, a "newly minted" >> veterinarian. Which could translate to "inexperienced", but can also [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I'm a firm believer in wet food for cats. Just look at a piece of > kibble and the natural food for a cat - a small rodent. ;o) Funny thing, Persia is terrified of small rodents! She's not terrified of dry kibble ;) She's indifferent about wet food. I used to give her some Fancy Feast as a treat once a week but even then sometimes she'd turn up her nose at it. She absolutely devours her dry Hill's x/d and cries when she can't have any more until 12 hours later. (Poor starving 16 lb. baby! heheh) I read the bag of her Hill's x/d. The nutritional analysis shows the main ingredient is PROTEIN. So I'm not afraid of feeding it to her as opposed to canned. She didn't like the canned x/d very much. Jill > A friend just told me that a veterinarian she knows said that the reason > domestic cats so often get kidney disease is because they're fed dry food, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Joyce I know my vet said there was a raging debate over the thought that too much protein caused it. They are beginning to believe that is not true. Doesn't make sense to me since cats are obligate carnivores. I just know there are some big debates going on about things that have been though previously on CRF. > > A friend just told me that a veterinarian she knows said that the reason > > domestic cats so often get kidney disease is because they're fed dry food, > > and their bodies didn't evolve to deal with so much non-meat in their > > diet. We offer wet food to ours so they get better hydration, but only Tyche and Smokey will eat it. Nocturne demands utter solitude to eat and even then she usually snubs moist food--Kumani hates it. Kumani is our skinny minnie and we try to coax her to eat, and Tyche is a fattie. So if Tyche's diet is partly moist food and Kumani's is all dry, there's more to it than that. Tyche just eats like a hoover, I think. --Fil > I can understand that dry food can bring on diabetes, because the cat > is eating a lot more carbohydrate than their body needs or is built for > metabolizing. But kidney disease? I always thought that too much *protein* > was the cause (or one of the causes) of kidney failure. Or can cats ever > have too much protein? Renal failure can mean the need to restrict protein because the kidneys no longer eliminate the nitrogen from the protein as well as they used to. > A friend just told me that a veterinarian she knows said that the reason > domestic cats so often get kidney disease is because they're fed dry food, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > was the cause (or one of the causes) of kidney failure. Or can cats ever > have too much protein? I don't remember the reasons, but I do remember reading that dry food is not terribly good for cats who are prone to UTI's. |
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